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(ABC Local)   When a sixth-grader is left IN A COMA after a schoolyard fight, I think you need to use a stronger word than "bullying" to describe the attack, and maybe hand out a punishment stiffer than a two-day suspension   (abclocal.go.com) divider line 224
    More: Scary, schoolyards, medically induced coma, Action News, punishments, schoolyard fight, DARBY TWP, Bailey O'Neill  
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13533 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 2:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-08 05:37:29 PM

Elandriel: See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing


Outside of feel good movies, that bigger bully is usually called "dad" or "mommas drunk boyfriend" and hitting a bully in the nose is going to get your ass kicked harder because he has plenty of experience on taking a punch.

/Grew up in a cushy home, but have friends who know a thing or two about this
 
2013-02-08 05:38:14 PM

trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.


Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.
 
2013-02-08 05:44:01 PM

Mr Guy: hitlersbrain: Mr Guy: Warlordtrooper: I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools

Cowardice.

No, the cowards were the ones that watched, cheered or enabled the bullies.

Glorifying it doesn't help.  It's cowardice to choose to inflict harm to protect yourself from harm.  Strength occasionally requires you to know what you can endure.  Bullying isn't the strong in ONE area picking on the weak in ANOTHER.  It's the weak picking on the weak, often while the strong fails to identify with EITHER side, often because there's something reasonable about the bullying.

Example: In isolation, most kids will tell you picking on another kid's reading skills isn't acceptable.  In the actual classroom, if everyone is stuck waiting for the same person, consistently, bullying emerges as a way of the classroom dealing with the frustration of dealing with the outlier.  In that particular case, the actual cause of the bullying could be anything from the need of a pair of glasses, to the victim not doing their homework properly, to classroom overcrowding or insufficient resources.  It's impossible to know that with blanket statements.  You have to know what someone is attempting to gain from the exercise of power in order to understand it.  You have to teach kids that it ISN'T fair that the slow hold back the strong, but the strong must endure it, because they have that option.  You have to deal with the frustration of explaining to a child why they have to deal with someone who doesn't try as hard as they do, but is still considered equal in the eyes of the law.  You have to teach kids to exercise power responsibly, and productively, and teach them the maximum benefit to all often comes from individual sacrifice.  Fortunately, sports can often be used to teach these sorts of lessons to the physically aggressive bully, but it's much harder to teach those concepts to intellectual bullies.  You have to teach them to conceptualize the damage they are doing, and that' ...


It's hard to convey but think that you are garbage to everyone around you. Parents, kids, teachers... everyone. You didn't do anything to warrant this. You can't do anything to stop it. And people won't even let you just be alone and miserable, they need to rub it in every... single... day. Just the thought of hurting the people hurting you and the people standing around watching and laughing is ... poetic. Fortunately for the 'normal kids' outsiders tend to be some of the best people and these things are rare.
 
2013-02-08 05:45:55 PM
The bully/bullies should be in Juvie.
 
2013-02-08 06:21:45 PM

Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.


Unfortunately they force kids to swallow the zero tolerance bullshiat instead of actually trying to be fair. Forces kids that would help to back down. Was always the problem when I was in school and that policy was just being introduced then. Luckily before it did come in I was being bullied someone stepped in and helped me against a larger group. Ended up being friends from then on and developed a good group of friends that have stuck together through alot of crap.
Fear of punishment doesnt work so well on the kids that dont care to begin with. All it has done is ensure the 'no good deed goes unpunished' mentality prevails.

We dont care if you tried to help someone! You got violent with someone!
 
2013-02-08 06:34:07 PM

edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police? Sounds like they didn't do anything until the kid was in the hospital.


Of course not.  That would be admitting there was a problem.

Magorn: A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM, besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid" from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW degree she earned before getting the job.


Yup.  The rules are only enforced on kids whose parents don't have a lawyer on speed-dial.

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.


Most bullying doesn't break bones.

durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.


Why didn't she go to the police herself?

Akuinnen: I would say it was a result of the fall. Even a grown person can die if they land hard on the back of their head. Kid probably hit cement.


Yeah, we had a case like that.  One punch, the guy fell onto concrete and died.  Defending your wife is fine but don't respond to words with punches!
 
2013-02-08 06:44:20 PM

deanis: Is ONE instance considered bullying these days?

In my day bullying was something that was seemingly ongoing  like teasing the poor kid or the fat kid or the smelly kid.

I also have a hard time grasping the idea of bullying as it is reported these days. I was bullied, so was just about every other kid in school. Why is it different? Is it the precious snowflake thingy?


No, it's that it used to be ignored.  The actual rate of bullying injuries and people driven to suicide from bullying are down, it's just that they now are news.
 
2013-02-08 07:14:06 PM

Mr Guy: FinFangFark: Question - How would you react and punish your kids if you found out they were bullying other kids. Not fighting to defend themselves, but they were the pricks picking on kids constantly?

For starters, I'd find out why, from their point of view, was picking on kids, and try and establish from the other side what the perception of their behavior was.  I've seen bullying be the result of trouble at home, but I've also seen it be the result of years of defensive behavior.  There's a big problem these days with the smart kids torturing the dumb ones verbally, and claiming bullying if there's a physical response, and an even bigger problem with bullies that are strong but small, picking on larger fatter kids that people assume can fend for themselves.  If I can figure out what the bullying triggers are, I'd address them directly.  First I'd make sure there wasn't a hormonal imbalance angle by making sure my child's fluids and nutritional intake aren't leading to a sugar or testosterone spike or valley in the middle of the school day.  I'd make sure my kid was well exercised and well hydrated, to be sure they have the best possible chance of controlling themselves.  Then I'd discuss the behavior with them, and take them step by step through the problem, and the causes.  I'd explain to them what their patterns of behaviors reveal about their insecurities and their own fears, and try and redirect them in a positive way.  I'd force my child to confront both their actions and their results, that they are responsible for, and the realities of the environment around them, and discuss with them how they could have better handled events to achieve a more positive outcome.  I'd work on regularly teaching them to take control of their own reactions, and teach them to feel secure in themselves, so they can influence others in less forceful ways.  Finally, I'd establish a mechanism of reporting so they'd know their efforts were being monitored directly.  I'd ensure they ...


Yeah, fark that noise.

I've told both my kids that if I ever catch wind of them being a shiathead to another kid, there'd be hell to pay.  And they have a healthy amount of fear of crossing me that there's never been an issue.  A good cuff upside the head, severe and creative groundings as well as making restitution to their victim are definitely at the top of the list.

All this 'let's talk it out and find out how you feel' gets you nowhere.  You're a parent.  It's your job to teach empathy by ensuring your child receives swift retribution for behavior towards others that isn't acceptable.
 
2013-02-08 07:32:43 PM
img577.imageshack.us

Dr. Douglas Ambler
Acting Director of Pupil Services
Southeast Delco School District
Darby Township, Penn.


Picture of posted on the right during a search of "Darby Township School"
Should have taken a better picture.
 
2013-02-08 08:21:37 PM

highbrow45: Why aren't these kids armed? This kid would be attending class today if Obama hadn't gotten in the way of his right to defend himself with a gun!


Some of the comments are seriously blaming Obama for this and are more over the top than your joking blame.  Poe's Law in effect:

Dane: A kid draws a doodle of a gun and the school gives him a three day suspension. A bully beats a boy to the point that he needs to be put in a two week coma and he gets a two day suspension, with no charges filed. Is the school system also in Obama's pocket????? This is outrageous.
 
2013-02-08 08:22:23 PM
Wake it off...
 
2013-02-08 08:28:33 PM

OnlyM3: Liberal school logic: Put kid in coma = 2 day suspension
"L" shaped bit of paper or draw a cartoon of a gun = 5 day suspension

Actions speak so loudly.


OnlyM3 logic: anything that ever happens = LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS
Anything that doesn't happen = LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS

Retards speak so loudly.
 
2013-02-08 09:24:02 PM

letrole: In Sweden, bullies are identified early on in grade school. Rather than suppress the trait, the bullies are taught to think of themselves as 'sheep dogs', and their classmates are the flock they protect. They still 'bully' and sometimes berate, but with their behaviour corrected to a useful or at least more benign role.

Same bully, same jackass really, but he's picking on you for cutting class instead of how you comb your hair.


So, police academy prep classes.  How farsighted!
 
2013-02-08 09:29:38 PM

Deucednuisance: ChaoticLimbs: People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

This is what I love about Fark.

Where people who don't know what they're talking about get to definitively explain the law.

And get every particular 100-percent wrong.

Shoe past someone and they fall and subsequently die.  Did you "kill" him?  Yes.

Assault someone and they eventually die as a result?  That's Murder.

Congratulations.  You are 100-percent wrong.

Go to the rear of the class.


Truly. I've read of a guy who died decades after being shot and his shooter was charged with murder.  Bullet was too risky to remove, eventually shifted and killed him.
 
2013-02-08 10:41:32 PM

kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?


as this crime was committed with bare hands and feet (which according to the FBI are responsible for more murders and violent crimes than rifles) we should force all children should be strapped to a gurney with only one hand free for writing so that this can never happen again.
 
2013-02-09 01:04:21 AM

edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police?


No, just draw a facsimile of a gun.

/The police response to an incident at a school is the inverse of the police response to the same incident in the real world.
 
2013-02-09 02:22:01 AM
You have to respect the control this boy's parents and family have, because Lord knows if this happened to my nephew I'd snap the evil little bastard's necks. If I didn't someone else would. There is no 'turn the other cheek' when it comes to someone doing this. Someone needs to set upa fundraiser for them. I cannot imagine what they're going through. If the internet community can raise $20K for a Devon Dudley looking douche mall cop then surely something can be done for these people.
 
2013-02-09 10:29:44 AM

occamswrist: trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.

Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.


i think the part of the story that gets ignored is what caused the harm.  he got knocked down, which caused a concussion.  i know people who have fallen, without the assistance of bullies, and suffered concussions.  the thing about head injuries is that they are unpredictable and can be lethal, even when the cause didn't seem to be that much.
 
2013-02-09 01:42:44 PM

PsiChick: I agree, but this is a child. Expulsion would probably be the proper punishment here, and leaving it up to the parents of the injured child if they want to press charges. Children are very farking stupid, and we as a society need to take that into account. The bully certainly should be punished, but not held to the same standard as an adult, because, let's face it--he's not, and it would be ridiculous to expect children, who normally get into fights, have any idea that they could cause a medical condition.

Like I said, expel him and make the rest up to the bullied child's parents. That would probably be enough.



I agree that the school is limited in terms of dealing with a case of this nature, but I think it should be a police matter regardless of wether or not the parents file a complaint.  Although allowances must be made for children, this case is severe enough to warrant that the facts be brought to a juvenile court to determine the proper consequences. In cases where children are extremely violent and out of control they may need to be placed in a different setting so that they may be rehabilitated.  Ideally, juvie would include treatment and supervision by those who could correct such behavior. In practice, juvie may not be ideal either, but the need for reform is a seperate issue.  The general population deserves to be protected.  I hope the parents go to the police and file a complaint. If they don't, maybe the police should investigate on their own.
 
2013-02-09 01:50:34 PM

pute kisses like a man: occamswrist: trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.

Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.

i think the part of the story that gets ignored is what caused the harm.  he got knocked down, which caused a concussion.  i know people who have fallen, without the assistance of bullies, and suffered concussions.  the thing about head injuries is that they are unpredictable and can be lethal, even when the cause didn't seem to be that much.


He didn't just fall - his nose was broken and he took from multiple hits to the face.  It shouldn't really be unexpected that something further may happen if you punch someone's nose in.
 
2013-02-09 02:22:27 PM

Aunt Crabby: I agree that the school is limited in terms of dealing with a case of this nature, but I think it should be a police matter regardless of wether or not the parents file a complaint.  Although allowances must be made for children, this case is severe enough to warrant that the facts be brought to a juvenile court to determine the proper consequences. In cases where children are extremely violent and out of control they may need to be placed in a different setting so that they may be rehabilitated.  Ideally, juvie would include treatment and supervision by those who could correct such behavior. In practice, juvie may not be ideal either, but the need for reform is a seperate issue.  The general population deserves to be protected.  I hope the parents go to the police and file a complaint. If they don't, maybe the police should investigate on their own.


Zero-tolerance laws for kids? We have those. They're cited as the most common reason people have an insanely hard time turning their lives around after the first conviction. And the general population deserves to be protected? From what, a tween who punched another kid in the face? I don't know how often you're around tweens, but they spend half their time trying to start fights. Doesn't mean they shouldn't face consequences, but seriously, this isn't a monster we're talking about, it's a horrible, preventable accident, and needs to be dealt with realistically.

/I'm being nice about it, but your POV basically takes kids and turns them into career criminals. There's a reason children are legally different from adults, and not everything needs to be resolved by police action, because the policeand courts  do not care about anything except making people feel safer by punishing the scary teen monsters. Kids screw up, and it needs to be handled calmly and realistically,  not with zero-tolerance legal action.
 
2013-02-09 03:45:45 PM

ErinPac: pute kisses like a man: occamswrist: trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.

Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.

i think the part of the story that gets ignored is what caused the harm.  he got knocked down, which caused a concussion.  i know people who have fallen, without the assistance of bullies, and suffered concussions.  the thing about head injuries is that they are unpredictable and can be lethal, even when the cause didn't seem to be that much.

He didn't just fall - his nose was broken and he took from multiple hits to the face.  It shouldn't really be unexpected that something further may happen if you punch someone's nose in.


ok, i didn't read that in the article.  either the article didn't include it, or I didn't read too carefully.  thanks for the correction/information.
 
2013-02-09 03:54:15 PM

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


You're just farking stupid. If in the result of a fist fight I kill someone, I'm going to be charged with manslaughter at best, murder at worst. You fail, fool.

At any rate...

This is why my kids will be enrolled in Jiu Jitsu soon. Because I'm not allowing this shiat to happen to my kids. If they throw the first punch, there will be hell to pay. If they defend themselves, I will never punish them for it. I will encourage them to never start a fight, but to ALWAYS end it.
 
2013-02-11 02:46:22 PM

Dinobot: I never broke the other kid's nose...


I mean that I had a similar story to yours, but I did break the kid's nose.
 
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