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(ABC Local)   When a sixth-grader is left IN A COMA after a schoolyard fight, I think you need to use a stronger word than "bullying" to describe the attack, and maybe hand out a punishment stiffer than a two-day suspension   (abclocal.go.com) divider line 224
    More: Scary, schoolyards, medically induced coma, Action News, punishments, schoolyard fight, DARBY TWP, Bailey O'Neill  
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13566 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 2:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-08 02:27:03 PM  
Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.
 
2013-02-08 02:27:19 PM  

Atomic Spunk: durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.

Nice, in theory. The reality is that if the kid was violent enough to put his female teacher in a headlock, the kid's father is likely an ornery SOB. If you went to their home with the intention of picking a fight, you'd probably find yourself looking down the wrong end of a shotgun.


I'd get my beer muscles on first.
You're probably right though.  So that's two reasons I'm happy it wasn't my wife that got hurt.
 
2013-02-08 02:27:38 PM  
In Sweden, bullies are identified early on in grade school. Rather than suppress the trait, the bullies are taught to think of themselves as 'sheep dogs', and their classmates are the flock they protect. They still 'bully' and sometimes berate, but with their behaviour corrected to a useful or at least more benign role.

Same bully, same jackass really, but he's picking on you for cutting class instead of how you comb your hair.
 
2013-02-08 02:27:57 PM  
Something tells me that the parents of the bully will try to say that the kid in a coma has to share SOME of the blame
 
2013-02-08 02:28:24 PM  
George  Zimmerman  unavailable for comment
 
2013-02-08 02:29:25 PM  
I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.
 
2013-02-08 02:29:42 PM  
kindms:
did you even read the article ? It said that a kid punched him in the nose 2x. The kid wasn't beat in to a coma. He was medically induced in to one several days later. It seems to be a result of the fracture to his nose but the other kid didn't beat him until he stopped moving

I would say it was a result of the fall. Even a grown person can die if they land hard on the back of their head. Kid probably hit cement.
 
2013-02-08 02:29:52 PM  
You can shove your thoughts and prayers up your ass.
 
2013-02-08 02:30:00 PM  

Katolu: Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.

Just say, "They're black" and be done.


In Delaware County, PA? Doubtful.  That's the expensive burbs of Philly by and large
 
2013-02-08 02:30:55 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


the kid is absolutely a criminal... if it had happened anywhere outside of school, the kid that beat him up would be charged with assault
 
2013-02-08 02:31:18 PM  

uncleacid: You can shove your thoughts and prayers up your ass.


But it's full of coffee!
 
2013-02-08 02:32:11 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


This is what I love about Fark.

Where people who don't know what they're talking about get to definitively explain the law.

And get every particular 100-percent wrong.

Shoe past someone and they fall and subsequently die.  Did you "kill" him?  Yes.

Assault someone and they eventually die as a result?  That's Murder.

Congratulations.  You are 100-percent wrong.

Go to the rear of the class.
 
2013-02-08 02:32:12 PM  

d23: kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?

I have never, ever, ever felt more justified in using this image than I do now...

[i865.photobucket.com image 264x34]


Heh.....I made that last year for the election derp threads.
 
2013-02-08 02:32:40 PM  

letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting aberrant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.

A good bully saves lives.


That'll do, Col Jessup
 
2013-02-08 02:33:02 PM  

letrole: In Sweden, bullies are identified early on in grade school. Rather than suppress the trait, the bullies are taught to think of themselves as 'sheep dogs', and their classmates are the flock they protect. They still 'bully' and sometimes berate, but with their behaviour corrected to a useful or at least more benign role.

Same bully, same jackass really, but he's picking on you for cutting class instead of how you comb your hair.


This is awesome. Do they still beat you up for it? Or just taunting?
 
2013-02-08 02:33:45 PM  
Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.

the kid is absolutely a criminal... if it had happened anywhere outside of school, the kid that beat him up would be charged with assault


But it didn't happen outside of school. And they're kids. So no, he isn't.
 
2013-02-08 02:34:01 PM  
DEMAND A PLAN TO BAN HIGH CAPACITY FISTS
 
2013-02-08 02:34:04 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


I think one of my old retarded high school teachers is a farker!
 
2013-02-08 02:34:04 PM  
Liberal school logic: Put kid in coma = 2 day suspension
"L" shaped bit of paper or draw a cartoon of a gun = 5 day suspension

Actions speak so loudly.
 
2013-02-08 02:34:51 PM  

Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.



Correct.  Similarly, Cheney could be charged with manslaughter if his friend ever dies from a long term complication after being shot in the face.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:18 PM  

Magorn: Katolu: Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.

Just say, "They're black" and be done.

In Delaware County, PA? Doubtful.  That's the expensive burbs of Philly by and large


I grew up in Delco. It is most certainly not the expensive burbs. This attack happened in Darby, which is not a nice place to live.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:26 PM  

BafflerMeal: Correct. Similarly, Cheney could be charged with manslaughter if his friend ever dies from a long term complication after being shot in the face.


I'm alright with that.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:39 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


Something tells that if it had been your kid pummeled into a coma you wouldn't be so cavalier.

farking idiot.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:51 PM  
The article does not mention the race of the bully.

More information is obviously needed to be able to form an opinion on this matter.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-02-08 02:36:01 PM  

Maud Dib: d23: kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?

I have never, ever, ever felt more justified in using this image than I do now...

[i865.photobucket.com image 264x34]

Heh.....I made that last year for the election derp threads.


It comes in SUPER handy...
 
2013-02-08 02:36:19 PM  

kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?


I have never known a sixth-grader worth keeping, and that includes myself at that age.
 
2013-02-08 02:37:05 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.Manslaughter/Culpable Homicide

FTFY

 
2013-02-08 02:37:29 PM  
I would murder these kids if the coma patient was my blood. As it stands, I'm only a couple hours away, and tempted.
 
2013-02-08 02:37:40 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.

the kid is absolutely a criminal... if it had happened anywhere outside of school, the kid that beat him up would be charged with assault

But it didn't happen outside of school. And they're kids. So no, he isn't.


If you get to be berated and interrogated inside school by the police, without a lawyer/advocate, for supposedly "violating the law" outside of school, then why doesn't it work the other way? Guilty of physically assaulting someone, get full treatment of law? Oh, right; white suburbs...
 
2013-02-08 02:37:51 PM  
durbnpoisn Smartest Funniest
2013-02-08 02:18:08 PM

My wife works at the elementary school up the street. Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student. In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault. No question. The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home. He was back the next day.

So the teacher was too stupid to press charges?
 
2013-02-08 02:38:17 PM  

hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.


I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.
 
2013-02-08 02:38:22 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result.


cdn.ksk.uproxx.com
 
2013-02-08 02:38:39 PM  
mtv.mtvnimages.com
 
GBB
2013-02-08 02:38:56 PM  

Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.


If you were pushing past someone, your intention isn't to hurt them.  So if they fell, and if they died is all accidental.  if you were in an argument with this person and you pushed him away, intentionally, and this sequence played out, then yes, you can be held criminally responsible.  In crimes, intention plays a big part.

Civilly, you can be held accountable for compensation for the accidental death of someone.  Civil and criminal procedures are handled quite differently.
 
2013-02-08 02:39:19 PM  

Magorn: In seventh grade I really couldn't bring myself to tell a nun to thier face that seconds before I punched the little punk he'd suggested my mom screwed hobos for money- so the other kids always got off scott free.


yeah darn those nuns for not letting you punch that kid for something he said.

you should have been allowed to punch him, after all in the adult world you're allowed at least one free hit if someone insults your mother.
 
2013-02-08 02:40:59 PM  
Considering the quality of schools nowadays, are we certain he wasn't left in a comma?
 
2013-02-08 02:41:02 PM  

Magorn: (and is my second favorite criminal charge after "being a rogue and a vagabond" (still charged in MD sometimes)


My favorite Maryland crime is "Lying in Wait".

MBooda: IN A COMA after a schoolyard fight

IN A COMA because of a schoolyard fight

/post hoc ergo propter hoc nazi


Nazi?  Really?

Then should know that there really is a chain of causation, here, and the charge of fallacy won't stick.

Unless you don't know what a medically-induced coma is, or why they're done?
 
2013-02-08 02:41:24 PM  
So, parents and teachers are drugging their kids into a comatose state each day, and that's OK, but beating a kid comatose is a big outrage???

Hypocrites!
 
2013-02-08 02:41:26 PM  
THIS is why I can't have kids, RIGHT HERE. Because if ANY damn ass crotch creature from some MISGUIDED and IDIOT PARENTS DARE LAY a FINGER on MY CHILD. I WILL GO FULL JULES FROM PULP FICTION ON THE LITTLE RAT BASTARD! AND THEY SHALL KNOW MY NAME IS THE *LORD* WHEN I LAY MY VENGEANCE UPON THEM!

You never go Full Jules!
 
2013-02-08 02:41:47 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


so vote republican.
 
2013-02-08 02:44:09 PM  

StaleCoffee: hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.

I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.


Question - How would you react and punish your kids if you found out they were bullying other kids.  Not fighting to defend themselves, but they were the pricks picking on kids constantly?
 
2013-02-08 02:44:36 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


You are correct. Legally, this situation is no different USB would be the result of me -- an adult -- punching another adult in the face, without provocation. Such action is entirely legal.
 
2013-02-08 02:44:45 PM  

hitlersbrain: I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight.


Maybe you misheard them, and they were saying "It takes two to make a thing go right," or possibly "It takes two to make it out of sight."
 
2013-02-08 02:46:20 PM  

Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.


Who will bully the bully?

A bigger bully.

Who will bully him?

uh...
 
2013-02-08 02:47:45 PM  

letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting aberrant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.

A good bully saves lives.


img.photobucket.com
eh, not always
 
2013-02-08 02:49:24 PM  
When I changed schools in 8th grade, the local gang of bullies pushed their initiate into picking on me, "the new guy". I tried to walk away three times but the third time I turned around the guy sucker-punched me. I proceeded to beat the holy shiat out of him, but stopped hitting him once he was on the ground, and I walked away. A teacher saw the entire incident including my attempts to get out of the fight, reported me for bullying the other guy (!) and gave me a week's suspension. The other guy got nothing, even though the teacher knew the whole story. When I questioned this, I was told that since I was the new guy I should have let him beat me up. When my parents found out, they had a meeting with that teacher and the principal; I never knew what was said but when it was over I got an apology from the school staff and both me and the kid got the minimum one day suspension required for fighting.

I decided that day that the real bully was the teacher, and resolved to kick the shiat out of any kid that dared to mess with me since I was already going to get in trouble even if I ran from the fight. Funny thing though, I never got harassed the rest of the year.
 
2013-02-08 02:49:30 PM  

LeroyBourne: That doesn't work these days, they teach the kids to dial 911 when their parents do such logical things.


Yeah, well, the responders have an obligation to check IDs and make sure the beater is related to the beatee, and then beat it.
 
2013-02-08 02:50:04 PM  
Look, if the bullies didn't throw an imaginary grenade then don't expect more than a two-day suspension.
 
2013-02-08 02:50:06 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result.


That's why you have a grade school law degree instead of a real one.
 
2013-02-08 02:50:09 PM  
Why aren't these kids armed? This kid would be attending class today if Obama hadn't gotten in the way of his right to defend himself with a gun!
 
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