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(ABC Local)   When a sixth-grader is left IN A COMA after a schoolyard fight, I think you need to use a stronger word than "bullying" to describe the attack, and maybe hand out a punishment stiffer than a two-day suspension   (abclocal.go.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, schoolyards, medically induced coma, Action News, punishments, schoolyard fight, DARBY TWP, Bailey O'Neill  
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13580 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 2:10 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



224 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-02-08 11:55:43 AM  
the kid (victim) should have claimed the bullies pointed their fingers at him and said bang!
They would have been expulsed that day.
 
Pud
2013-02-08 12:03:53 PM  
And here in Georgia they are expelling several kids for a food fight during lunch. I think I'm starting to see the logic behind school punishments. Damned near kill a kid: Stay home and play video games for a couple of days and think about what you did. Throw some mashed potatoes, or point a finger and say bang (as DownDaRiver pointed out): YOOOUUURRR'E OUTTA' HERE !!!!
 
2013-02-08 01:25:02 PM  
I saw a kid (small 6th or 7th grader) who was picked by an 8th grader and thrown to the ground, breaking his collar bone.

Mom's got the "someone's head will roll" look when I pointed out that what happened was "assault and battery".
 
2013-02-08 01:46:06 PM  
So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?
 
2013-02-08 01:53:03 PM  
Someone needs to be in juvie. Like yesterday.
 
2013-02-08 02:08:40 PM  

Banned on the Run: I saw a kid (small 6th or 7th grader) who was picked by an 8th grader and thrown to the ground, breaking his collar bone.

Mom's got the "someone's head will roll" look when I pointed out that what happened was "assault and battery".


well technically so is just punching the kids.  Breaking a bone though may elevate it to "mayhem" depnding on whether your state uses common law crime definitions
 
2013-02-08 02:09:57 PM  
Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.
 
2013-02-08 02:10:10 PM  
Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police? Sounds like they didn't do anything until the kid was in the hospital.
 
2013-02-08 02:12:40 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?


It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.
 
2013-02-08 02:13:40 PM  

edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police? Sounds like they didn't do anything until the kid was in the hospital.


No. Someone needs and asswhoopin and the cops need to stay out of it.
It's called being a parent and cutting a switch.
You park the welts on the backside with the belt and the little shiats will learn not to misbehave.

Or you can be a babydaddy, and not do jack fark about your spawn.
In which case, yous hould be in prison for failing to mind your crotch fruit.
It's the farking law.
 
2013-02-08 02:14:03 PM  
Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?
 
2013-02-08 02:14:15 PM  

DownDaRiver: the kid (victim) should have claimed the bullies pointed their fingers at him and said bang!
They would have been expulsed that day.


You are gifted.
 
2013-02-08 02:16:04 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?


1. It's Philadelphia

2. It's "Professional " educators making the decision

3. The victim is a white male so on some level he had it coming.
 
2013-02-08 02:16:20 PM  

kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?


I have never, ever, ever felt more justified in using this image than I do now...

i865.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-08 02:17:12 PM  
Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.
 
2013-02-08 02:17:39 PM  
"Keep an eye out for it, it's something that's very serious. Sometimes kids are afraid to tell their parents that they're being bullied because of the embarrassment," O'Neill said.

Says the guy who doesn't understand bullying or how it works.

It's got nothing to do with being embarrassed and everything to do with retribution.  If you "tell" you're only going to get it ten times worse, if you're lucky.
 
2013-02-08 02:18:08 PM  
My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.
 
2013-02-08 02:18:09 PM  

edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police? Sounds like they didn't do anything until the kid was in the hospital.


I do have a certain respect for "let the kids fight it out" on the theory that SOME agression in pre-pubscent boys is endocrinologically inevitable. I had the misfortune of being the tallest, hairiest, fattest, smartest and most socially inept kid in my middle school.   I was 6'1 nd at least 180 at the time, and I was constantly harrased by two kids who were barely 4 ft and wanted to establish themselves as at least above me on the pecking order-and they knew it was safe because the few time I snapped and went to beat the hell out of one of them, I got hauled up short by the nuns who then subjected me to lectures about what a horrible bully I was for picking on kids so much smaller than me.  In seventh grade I really couldn't bring myself to tell a nun to thier face that seconds before I punched the little punk he'd suggested my mom screwed hobos for money- so the other kids always got off scott free.
 
2013-02-08 02:18:11 PM  

Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.


did you even read the article ? It said that a kid punched him in the nose 2x. The kid wasn't beat in to a coma. He was medically induced in to one several days later. It seems to be a result of the fracture to his nose but the other kid didn't beat him until he stopped moving

And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story
 
2013-02-08 02:18:20 PM  
It's not like that.

The kid had WMDs.
 
2013-02-08 02:18:29 PM  

Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.



I always wish it was an eye for an eye.  What's not fair about that?

You can bet a lot less sh*t would go on.
 
2013-02-08 02:18:46 PM  

vudukungfu: edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police? Sounds like they didn't do anything until the kid was in the hospital.

No. Someone needs and asswhoopin and the cops need to stay out of it.
It's called being a parent and cutting a switch.
You park the welts on the backside with the belt and the little shiats will learn not to misbehave.

Or you can be a babydaddy, and not do jack fark about your spawn.
In which case, yous hould be in prison for failing to mind your crotch fruit.
It's the farking law.


That doesn't work these days, they teach the kids to dial 911 when their parents do such logical things.
 
2013-02-08 02:19:36 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


It's also manslaughter.
 
2013-02-08 02:19:45 PM  
if the victim had a gun this wouldn't have happened.
 
2013-02-08 02:19:48 PM  
FTA:

He was also knocked down, causing a concussion.

Bailey's parents had him checked out at the hospital, but something still wasn't right.

"He was sleeping. He was moody. He wasn't himself. He was angry a little bit. He wasn't really eating," O'Neill said.

A few days later, Bailey took a turn for the worse and started having violent seizures.

Doctors at A.I. duPont Hospital for Children were forced to put Bailey into a medically induced coma almost two weeks ago

The kid was beaten so bad, he had to be induced into a coma, or he may have died.
 
2013-02-08 02:20:01 PM  
Send in the drones.
 
2013-02-08 02:20:21 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


but he didn't fall down the stairs... child wouldnt be in a coma if the other kid didn't assault him
 
2013-02-08 02:20:46 PM  

Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.


IDEA lawsuits: Several hundred thousand dollars+
Bullets: Less than a dollar

/the world needs some cleansing
 
2013-02-08 02:21:03 PM  
IN A COMA after a schoolyard fight

IN A COMA because of a schoolyard fight


/post hoc ergo propter hoc nazi
 
2013-02-08 02:21:17 PM  
Two days?  Really?

I'm sure that bully is loving his 4 day weekend.
 
2013-02-08 02:21:50 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.
 
2013-02-08 02:21:59 PM  

Magorn: Banned on the Run: I saw a kid (small 6th or 7th grader) who was picked by an 8th grader and thrown to the ground, breaking his collar bone.

Mom's got the "someone's head will roll" look when I pointed out that what happened was "assault and battery".

well technically so is just punching the kids.  Breaking a bone though may elevate it to "mayhem" depnding on whether your state uses common law crime definitions


I don't think simply breaking a bone would itself constitute mayhem. Doesn't that typically require inflicting a permanent and disabling injury (such as this case)?
 
2013-02-08 02:22:04 PM  
The two day suspension sounds light until you consider that one of the days was a field with a hot teacher.
 
2013-02-08 02:22:41 PM  
Well thank god he didn't draw a picture of a gun while at school or else he would be out for a week!
 
2013-02-08 02:23:23 PM  

durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.


Nice, in theory. The reality is that if the kid was violent enough to put his female teacher in a headlock, the kid's father is likely an ornery SOB. If you went to their home with the intention of picking a fight, you'd probably find yourself looking down the wrong end of a shotgun.
 
2013-02-08 02:23:37 PM  

FinFangFark: Two days?  Really?

I'm sure that bully is loving his 4 day weekend.


I hope Reddit doesn't get ahold of his home address.

Oh please oh please
 
2013-02-08 02:23:38 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Someone needs to be in juvie. Like yesterday.


There's no such thing as juvenile delinquents; only adults who failed to instill discipline in their children.

Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.


Where do you think the bully learned this behavior?  If you want "eye for an eye" justice, then find the punk's parents and have them publicly caned for their poor child-rearing practices.
 
2013-02-08 02:24:10 PM  
Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting aberrant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.

A good bully saves lives.
 
2013-02-08 02:24:22 PM  
I remember being bullied when I was in middle school until I had enough of it and beat the crap out of one of my tormentors... a teacher dragged me and the other kid into the principal's office.

Principal just took a look at me, told me to wash my face and go back to class and that she would take care care of the other kid.

Didn't get suspended and was never bothered from that point on.

/RIP Principal =(
 
2013-02-08 02:24:34 PM  

Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.


Just say, "They're black" and be done.
 
2013-02-08 02:24:41 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?


It's the thought that counts.
 
2013-02-08 02:25:36 PM  
just tossing everything in from the refrigerator into a pot doesn't make a good dinner. you got good kids, you got messed up kids from messed up families, you have mentally ill kids and you have handicapped kids. the only other time you see this mix all in one stew is prison, and it's not right there either.

each group needs and deserves their own place with room to grow and achieve. as it is now those who could shine the most have all sorts of annoyances, obstacles and interruptions thrown their way. it's as if those in charge of school systems don't want your children to excel.

keep letting riff raff multiply unchecked and this crap will continue. there are few jobs as important and demanding as being a good parent. proving you are willing and able is way over due. the rich wealthy families don't give a damn about you and yours: their children attend the finest private schools. people in America need to wake up and get back to eugenics.
 
2013-02-08 02:25:47 PM  
If the victim was gay then it'd be on every newchannel and rock stars would hld benefit concerts.
 
2013-02-08 02:26:02 PM  
But if the kid responds to the bullying with a gun they will blame the kid and call him crazy instead of addressing the real issue of bullying
 
2013-02-08 02:26:03 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.


And if the kid fell, hit his head, and died....  suspension?
 
2013-02-08 02:26:05 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Magorn: Banned on the Run: I saw a kid (small 6th or 7th grader) who was picked by an 8th grader and thrown to the ground, breaking his collar bone.

Mom's got the "someone's head will roll" look when I pointed out that what happened was "assault and battery".

well technically so is just punching the kids.  Breaking a bone though may elevate it to "mayhem" depnding on whether your state uses common law crime definitions

I don't think simply breaking a bone would itself constitute mayhem. Doesn't that typically require inflicting a permanent and disabling injury (such as this case)?


In some case "disabling" is the phrase that pays rather than "permanent"  and so breaking a bone CAN be charged that way, but yes you are correct that it usually requires something like a loss of a limb to be charged.  (and is my second favorite criminal charge after "being a rogue and a vagabond" (still charged in MD sometimes)
 
2013-02-08 02:26:14 PM  
kindms:And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

Bailey is an honor student, an athlete, and a big brother.

Hmmm, perhaps sir, you are correct, in that there is more to this story, seems to be a popular kid....

"Rob says four weeks ago his 11-year-old son was being bullied by a couple of kids when one hit him in the face several times fracturing his nose.
He was also knocked down, causing a concussion."



Two on one though, sounds more bully-ish. Also, "several" != "couple"
 
2013-02-08 02:26:26 PM  

Pud: And here in Georgia they are expelling several kids for a food fight during lunch. I think I'm starting to see the logic behind school punishments. Damned near kill a kid: Stay home and play video games for a couple of days and think about what you did. Throw some mashed potatoes, or point a finger and say bang (as DownDaRiver pointed out): YOOOUUURRR'E OUTTA' HERE !!!!


Last night on the Atlanta news, they showed a kid who was suspended for a week for bringing prank bubblegum that gives you a shock to school, which seemed pretty freakin' ridiculous to me.
 
2013-02-08 02:26:47 PM  
Zero tolerance only applies when it's one of the cool kids that gets hurt.

Sadly that isn't a troll.
 
2013-02-08 02:27:02 PM  
seems more accurate than people being mean on the internet

Is there some kind of good bullying subby's referring to?
 
2013-02-08 02:27:03 PM  
Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.
 
2013-02-08 02:27:19 PM  

Atomic Spunk: durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.

Nice, in theory. The reality is that if the kid was violent enough to put his female teacher in a headlock, the kid's father is likely an ornery SOB. If you went to their home with the intention of picking a fight, you'd probably find yourself looking down the wrong end of a shotgun.


I'd get my beer muscles on first.
You're probably right though.  So that's two reasons I'm happy it wasn't my wife that got hurt.
 
2013-02-08 02:27:38 PM  
In Sweden, bullies are identified early on in grade school. Rather than suppress the trait, the bullies are taught to think of themselves as 'sheep dogs', and their classmates are the flock they protect. They still 'bully' and sometimes berate, but with their behaviour corrected to a useful or at least more benign role.

Same bully, same jackass really, but he's picking on you for cutting class instead of how you comb your hair.
 
2013-02-08 02:27:57 PM  
Something tells me that the parents of the bully will try to say that the kid in a coma has to share SOME of the blame
 
2013-02-08 02:28:24 PM  
George  Zimmerman  unavailable for comment
 
2013-02-08 02:29:25 PM  
I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.
 
2013-02-08 02:29:42 PM  
kindms:
did you even read the article ? It said that a kid punched him in the nose 2x. The kid wasn't beat in to a coma. He was medically induced in to one several days later. It seems to be a result of the fracture to his nose but the other kid didn't beat him until he stopped moving

I would say it was a result of the fall. Even a grown person can die if they land hard on the back of their head. Kid probably hit cement.
 
2013-02-08 02:29:52 PM  
You can shove your thoughts and prayers up your ass.
 
2013-02-08 02:30:00 PM  

Katolu: Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.

Just say, "They're black" and be done.


In Delaware County, PA? Doubtful.  That's the expensive burbs of Philly by and large
 
2013-02-08 02:30:55 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


the kid is absolutely a criminal... if it had happened anywhere outside of school, the kid that beat him up would be charged with assault
 
2013-02-08 02:31:18 PM  

uncleacid: You can shove your thoughts and prayers up your ass.


But it's full of coffee!
 
2013-02-08 02:32:11 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


This is what I love about Fark.

Where people who don't know what they're talking about get to definitively explain the law.

And get every particular 100-percent wrong.

Shoe past someone and they fall and subsequently die.  Did you "kill" him?  Yes.

Assault someone and they eventually die as a result?  That's Murder.

Congratulations.  You are 100-percent wrong.

Go to the rear of the class.
 
2013-02-08 02:32:12 PM  

d23: kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?

I have never, ever, ever felt more justified in using this image than I do now...

[i865.photobucket.com image 264x34]


Heh.....I made that last year for the election derp threads.
 
2013-02-08 02:32:40 PM  

letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting aberrant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.

A good bully saves lives.


That'll do, Col Jessup
 
2013-02-08 02:33:02 PM  

letrole: In Sweden, bullies are identified early on in grade school. Rather than suppress the trait, the bullies are taught to think of themselves as 'sheep dogs', and their classmates are the flock they protect. They still 'bully' and sometimes berate, but with their behaviour corrected to a useful or at least more benign role.

Same bully, same jackass really, but he's picking on you for cutting class instead of how you comb your hair.


This is awesome. Do they still beat you up for it? Or just taunting?
 
2013-02-08 02:33:45 PM  
Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.

the kid is absolutely a criminal... if it had happened anywhere outside of school, the kid that beat him up would be charged with assault


But it didn't happen outside of school. And they're kids. So no, he isn't.
 
2013-02-08 02:34:01 PM  
DEMAND A PLAN TO BAN HIGH CAPACITY FISTS
 
2013-02-08 02:34:04 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


I think one of my old retarded high school teachers is a farker!
 
2013-02-08 02:34:04 PM  
Liberal school logic: Put kid in coma = 2 day suspension
"L" shaped bit of paper or draw a cartoon of a gun = 5 day suspension

Actions speak so loudly.
 
2013-02-08 02:34:51 PM  

Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.



Correct.  Similarly, Cheney could be charged with manslaughter if his friend ever dies from a long term complication after being shot in the face.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:18 PM  

Magorn: Katolu: Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.

Just say, "They're black" and be done.

In Delaware County, PA? Doubtful.  That's the expensive burbs of Philly by and large


I grew up in Delco. It is most certainly not the expensive burbs. This attack happened in Darby, which is not a nice place to live.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:26 PM  

BafflerMeal: Correct. Similarly, Cheney could be charged with manslaughter if his friend ever dies from a long term complication after being shot in the face.


I'm alright with that.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:39 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


Something tells that if it had been your kid pummeled into a coma you wouldn't be so cavalier.

farking idiot.
 
2013-02-08 02:35:51 PM  
The article does not mention the race of the bully.

More information is obviously needed to be able to form an opinion on this matter.
 
2013-02-08 02:36:01 PM  

Maud Dib: d23: kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?

I have never, ever, ever felt more justified in using this image than I do now...

[i865.photobucket.com image 264x34]

Heh.....I made that last year for the election derp threads.


It comes in SUPER handy...
 
2013-02-08 02:36:19 PM  

kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?


I have never known a sixth-grader worth keeping, and that includes myself at that age.
 
2013-02-08 02:37:05 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.Manslaughter/Culpable Homicide

FTFY

 
2013-02-08 02:37:29 PM  
I would murder these kids if the coma patient was my blood. As it stands, I'm only a couple hours away, and tempted.
 
2013-02-08 02:37:40 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.

the kid is absolutely a criminal... if it had happened anywhere outside of school, the kid that beat him up would be charged with assault

But it didn't happen outside of school. And they're kids. So no, he isn't.


If you get to be berated and interrogated inside school by the police, without a lawyer/advocate, for supposedly "violating the law" outside of school, then why doesn't it work the other way? Guilty of physically assaulting someone, get full treatment of law? Oh, right; white suburbs...
 
2013-02-08 02:37:51 PM  
durbnpoisn Smartest Funniest
2013-02-08 02:18:08 PM

My wife works at the elementary school up the street. Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student. In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault. No question. The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home. He was back the next day.

So the teacher was too stupid to press charges?
 
2013-02-08 02:38:17 PM  

hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.


I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.
 
2013-02-08 02:38:22 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result.


cdn.ksk.uproxx.com
 
2013-02-08 02:38:39 PM  
mtv.mtvnimages.com
 
GBB
2013-02-08 02:38:56 PM  

Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.


If you were pushing past someone, your intention isn't to hurt them.  So if they fell, and if they died is all accidental.  if you were in an argument with this person and you pushed him away, intentionally, and this sequence played out, then yes, you can be held criminally responsible.  In crimes, intention plays a big part.

Civilly, you can be held accountable for compensation for the accidental death of someone.  Civil and criminal procedures are handled quite differently.
 
2013-02-08 02:39:19 PM  

Magorn: In seventh grade I really couldn't bring myself to tell a nun to thier face that seconds before I punched the little punk he'd suggested my mom screwed hobos for money- so the other kids always got off scott free.


yeah darn those nuns for not letting you punch that kid for something he said.

you should have been allowed to punch him, after all in the adult world you're allowed at least one free hit if someone insults your mother.
 
2013-02-08 02:40:59 PM  
Considering the quality of schools nowadays, are we certain he wasn't left in a comma?
 
2013-02-08 02:41:02 PM  

Magorn: (and is my second favorite criminal charge after "being a rogue and a vagabond" (still charged in MD sometimes)


My favorite Maryland crime is "Lying in Wait".

MBooda: IN A COMA after a schoolyard fight

IN A COMA because of a schoolyard fight

/post hoc ergo propter hoc nazi


Nazi?  Really?

Then should know that there really is a chain of causation, here, and the charge of fallacy won't stick.

Unless you don't know what a medically-induced coma is, or why they're done?
 
2013-02-08 02:41:24 PM  
So, parents and teachers are drugging their kids into a comatose state each day, and that's OK, but beating a kid comatose is a big outrage???

Hypocrites!
 
2013-02-08 02:41:26 PM  
THIS is why I can't have kids, RIGHT HERE. Because if ANY damn ass crotch creature from some MISGUIDED and IDIOT PARENTS DARE LAY a FINGER on MY CHILD. I WILL GO FULL JULES FROM PULP FICTION ON THE LITTLE RAT BASTARD! AND THEY SHALL KNOW MY NAME IS THE *LORD* WHEN I LAY MY VENGEANCE UPON THEM!

You never go Full Jules!
 
2013-02-08 02:41:47 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


so vote republican.
 
2013-02-08 02:44:09 PM  

StaleCoffee: hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.

I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.


Question - How would you react and punish your kids if you found out they were bullying other kids.  Not fighting to defend themselves, but they were the pricks picking on kids constantly?
 
2013-02-08 02:44:36 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


You are correct. Legally, this situation is no different USB would be the result of me -- an adult -- punching another adult in the face, without provocation. Such action is entirely legal.
 
2013-02-08 02:44:45 PM  

hitlersbrain: I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight.


Maybe you misheard them, and they were saying "It takes two to make a thing go right," or possibly "It takes two to make it out of sight."
 
2013-02-08 02:46:20 PM  

Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.


Who will bully the bully?

A bigger bully.

Who will bully him?

uh...
 
2013-02-08 02:47:45 PM  

letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting aberrant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.

A good bully saves lives.


img.photobucket.com
eh, not always
 
2013-02-08 02:49:24 PM  
When I changed schools in 8th grade, the local gang of bullies pushed their initiate into picking on me, "the new guy". I tried to walk away three times but the third time I turned around the guy sucker-punched me. I proceeded to beat the holy shiat out of him, but stopped hitting him once he was on the ground, and I walked away. A teacher saw the entire incident including my attempts to get out of the fight, reported me for bullying the other guy (!) and gave me a week's suspension. The other guy got nothing, even though the teacher knew the whole story. When I questioned this, I was told that since I was the new guy I should have let him beat me up. When my parents found out, they had a meeting with that teacher and the principal; I never knew what was said but when it was over I got an apology from the school staff and both me and the kid got the minimum one day suspension required for fighting.

I decided that day that the real bully was the teacher, and resolved to kick the shiat out of any kid that dared to mess with me since I was already going to get in trouble even if I ran from the fight. Funny thing though, I never got harassed the rest of the year.
 
2013-02-08 02:49:30 PM  

LeroyBourne: That doesn't work these days, they teach the kids to dial 911 when their parents do such logical things.


Yeah, well, the responders have an obligation to check IDs and make sure the beater is related to the beatee, and then beat it.
 
2013-02-08 02:50:04 PM  
Look, if the bullies didn't throw an imaginary grenade then don't expect more than a two-day suspension.
 
2013-02-08 02:50:06 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result.


That's why you have a grade school law degree instead of a real one.
 
2013-02-08 02:50:09 PM  
Why aren't these kids armed? This kid would be attending class today if Obama hadn't gotten in the way of his right to defend himself with a gun!
 
2013-02-08 02:53:29 PM  
Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.

Something tells that if it had been your kid pummeled into a coma you wouldn't be so cavalier.

farking idiot


Brilliant rebuttal. How can you argue with that logic?
 
2013-02-08 02:53:30 PM  

poot_rootbeer: hitlersbrain: I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight.

Maybe you misheard them, and they were saying "It takes two to make a thing go right," or possibly "It takes two to make it out of sight."


damn you for that rotten ear worm
 
2013-02-08 02:53:31 PM  

Deucednuisance: Magorn: (and is my second favorite criminal charge after "being a rogue and a vagabond" (still charged in MD sometimes)

My favorite Maryland crime is "Lying in Wait".

MBooda: IN A COMA after a schoolyard fight

IN A COMA because of a schoolyard fight

/post hoc ergo propter hoc nazi

Nazi?  Really?

Then should know that there really is a chain of causation, here, and the charge of fallacy won't stick.

Unless you don't know what a medically-induced coma is, or why they're done?


My comment was directed at subby's headline, not TFA.
 
2013-02-08 02:53:55 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


Egg shell skull rule.  Google it.
 
2013-02-08 02:54:18 PM  

kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?


No.  The discussion we should be having is the shutdown of all public schools and the disbandment of all teachers' unions.
 
2013-02-08 02:55:39 PM  

Magorn: Katolu: Magorn: FirstNationalBastard: So, "Zero Tolerance" only applies when someone throws an imaginary hand grenade?

It's really very simple: the kid throwing an imaginary hand grenade is a nice, normal, kid who the school can terrorize and make an example of to show how "tough" they are.

A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM,  besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid"  from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW  degree she earned before getting the job.

Just say, "They're black" and be done.

In Delaware County, PA? Doubtful.  That's the expensive burbs of Philly by and large


Exspensive, eh? I'm betting the bully's parents are rich, and that's why the school  gave him a light punishment.
 
2013-02-08 02:55:40 PM  

Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.


I agree, but this is a child. Expulsion would probably be the proper punishment here, and leaving it up to the parents of the injured child if they want to press charges. Children are  very farking stupid, and we as a society need to take that into account. The bully certainly should be punished, but not held to the same standard as an adult, because, let's face it--he's not, and it would be ridiculous to expect children, who normally get into fights, have any idea that they could cause a medical condition.

Like I said, expel him and make the rest up to the bullied child's parents. That would probably be enough.
 
2013-02-08 02:57:12 PM  

FinFangFark: StaleCoffee: hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.

I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.

Question - How would you react and punish your kids if you found out they were bullying other kids.  Not fighting to defend themselves, but they were the pricks picking on kids constantly?


I got a note in triplicate about my 6 year old doing just that. He wasn't physically attacking anyone but he was being mean to a particular kid.

I had a long talk with him, listened to him when he told me why he did it, told him its okay to be upset but treating people like that was wrong. I reminded him that regardless of his "why" for doing it, he was still acting like a bully and being the mean kid. He has to apologize to the other kid on Monday. He also loses anything electronics for the next week as a reminder, since 6 year olds are not known for their reasoning or retention skills sans reinforcement. I hope it stops there but if it escalates I will talk to him again and he will be punished again, and I will try to talk to someone who knows how the fark to properly deal with that since I don't seem to be doing it right at that point.

My older son got into a fight with a kid on the bus. He was defending himself. He chose not to inflict permanent harm on the other kid and was upset because he took a haymaker to the face even though he "blocked all the other stupid punches. He didn't even have a fighting style or anything, it was stupid." I've taught my kids some BJJ because I don't want them to get their asses kicked like I did. The bus driver apologized to me, made the other kid move and that was the end of the incident.

I'm still glad I don't have daughters.
 
2013-02-08 02:58:03 PM  

vudukungfu: LeroyBourne: That doesn't work these days, they teach the kids to dial 911 when their parents do such logical things.

Yeah, well, the responders have an obligation to check IDs and make sure the beater is related to the beatee, and then beat it.


No joke, I knew this guy who had a 4th and 5th grader, and like every day when they got home he would ask what they learned.  One day one of them answered 'if mommy or you ever hit us we're supposed to call 911.'  He was shocked, and pissed the way the schools are going down hill, and this was well over a decade ago.
 
2013-02-08 02:58:24 PM  

arashinogarou: When I changed schools in 8th grade, the local gang of bullies pushed their initiate into picking on me, "the new guy". I tried to walk away three times but the third time I turned around the guy sucker-punched me. I proceeded to beat the holy shiat out of him, but stopped hitting him once he was on the ground, and I walked away. A teacher saw the entire incident including my attempts to get out of the fight, reported me for bullying the other guy (!) and gave me a week's suspension. The other guy got nothing, even though the teacher knew the whole story. When I questioned this, I was told that since I was the new guy I should have let him beat me up. When my parents found out, they had a meeting with that teacher and the principal; I never knew what was said but when it was over I got an apology from the school staff and both me and the kid got the minimum one day suspension required for fighting.

I decided that day that the real bully was the teacher, and resolved to kick the shiat out of any kid that dared to mess with me since I was already going to get in trouble even if I ran from the fight. Funny thing though, I never got harassed the rest of the year.


And people here will argue against any punishment/suspension for the teacher in that scenario.
 
2013-02-08 02:59:41 PM  

GBB: If you were pushing past someone, your intention isn't to hurt them.  So if they fell, and if they died is all accidental.  if you were in an argument with this person and you pushed him away, intentionally, and this sequence played out, then yes, you can be held criminally responsible.  In crimes, intention plays a big part.

Civilly, you can be held accountable for compensation for the accidental death of someone.  Civil and criminal procedures are handled quite differently.


You can be sufficiently reckless as to the results of your actions as to infer intent.
 
2013-02-08 03:00:34 PM  
Subby.... It was a MEDICALLY induced coma. Meaning the fight didn't put him into it, the doctors did as a preventative measure. A coma isn't always a BAD thing.
 
2013-02-08 03:01:48 PM  

2 Replies: Subby.... It was a MEDICALLY induced coma. Meaning the fight didn't put him into it, the doctors did as a preventative measure. A coma isn't always a BAD thing.


Because he was having violent seizures.
 
GBB
2013-02-08 03:02:10 PM  

Prof. Frink: Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.

Who will bully the bully?

A bigger bully.

Who will bully him?

uh...


It's bullies all the way down.
 
2013-02-08 03:02:23 PM  

2 Replies: Subby.... It was a MEDICALLY induced coma. Meaning the fight didn't put him into it, the doctors did as a preventative measure. A coma isn't always a BAD thing.


Nor is 'coma' a clinical term that anyone in a hospital uses.  Gets thrown around fast and loose.
 
2013-02-08 03:02:26 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


It's not the bully's fault that Puny Parker can't take a punch due to his radioactive bones being more brittle than pretzel sticks.
 
2013-02-08 03:03:25 PM  

BafflerMeal: Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.


Correct.  Similarly, Cheney could be charged with manslaughter if his friend ever dies from a long term complication after being shot in the face.


Well, usually there is a common-law derived "year and a day" limitation on time between the act and the resulting death-which has caused some complications in cases where a person went into an irreversible coma immediately after the crime but was kept alive on life support for more than a year afterwards
 
2013-02-08 03:03:41 PM  

StaleCoffee: hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.

I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.


Kids getting picked on 9 times out of 10 have no one on their side, especially their parents and teachers. They're you know, odd. They don't act right. They wear the wrong clothes don't get involved or have many friends. They're kids who already have a full plate of shiat most kids with decent parents never have to deal with and can't understand. Bullies zero in on these kids and they'll zero in on anyone they perceive as weak for the rest of their lives.
 
2013-02-08 03:06:48 PM  

PsiChick: Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.

I agree, but this is a child. Expulsion would probably be the proper punishment here, and leaving it up to the parents of the injured child if they want to press charges. Children are  very farking stupid, and we as a society need to take that into account. The bully certainly should be punished, but not held to the same standard as an adult, because, let's face it--he's not, and it would be ridiculous to expect children, who normally get into fights, have any idea that they could cause a medical condition.

Like I said, expel him and make the rest up to the bullied child's parents. That would probably be enough.


As somebody who had thier whole life ruined because of bullying from day 1 of grade school let me say Fark you

Bullies should be lined up against the wall and shot. Then charge thier estate for the cost of the bullet

I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools
 
2013-02-08 03:08:24 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-08 03:09:04 PM  

hitlersbrain: StaleCoffee: hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.

I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.

Kids getting picked on 9 times out of 10 have no one on their side, especially their parents and teachers. They're you know, odd. They don't act right. They wear the wrong clothes don't get involved or have many friends. They're kids who already have a full plate of shiat most kids with decent parents never have to deal with and can't understand. Bullies zero in on these kids and they'll zero in on anyone they perceive as weak for the rest of their lives.


I know, I dealt with it myself growing up.
 
2013-02-08 03:09:41 PM  
Bring a plastic gun to school, that's an expulsion...

Put a 6th grader in a coma... that's a slap'n...

We're shaping up to be just like the Great area known as Britain faster than you can ask, who is the King George guy anyway?
 
2013-02-08 03:10:25 PM  

FinFangFark: Question - How would you react and punish your kids if you found out they were bullying other kids. Not fighting to defend themselves, but they were the pricks picking on kids constantly?


For starters, I'd find out why, from their point of view, was picking on kids, and try and establish from the other side what the perception of their behavior was.  I've seen bullying be the result of trouble at home, but I've also seen it be the result of years of defensive behavior.  There's a big problem these days with the smart kids torturing the dumb ones verbally, and claiming bullying if there's a physical response, and an even bigger problem with bullies that are strong but small, picking on larger fatter kids that people assume can fend for themselves.  If I can figure out what the bullying triggers are, I'd address them directly.  First I'd make sure there wasn't a hormonal imbalance angle by making sure my child's fluids and nutritional intake aren't leading to a sugar or testosterone spike or valley in the middle of the school day.  I'd make sure my kid was well exercised and well hydrated, to be sure they have the best possible chance of controlling themselves.  Then I'd discuss the behavior with them, and take them step by step through the problem, and the causes.  I'd explain to them what their patterns of behaviors reveal about their insecurities and their own fears, and try and redirect them in a positive way.  I'd force my child to confront both their actions and their results, that they are responsible for, and the realities of the environment around them, and discuss with them how they could have better handled events to achieve a more positive outcome.  I'd work on regularly teaching them to take control of their own reactions, and teach them to feel secure in themselves, so they can influence others in less forceful ways.  Finally, I'd establish a mechanism of reporting so they'd know their efforts were being monitored directly.  I'd ensure they understood the direct connection between behaviors that are undesirable, the reasons those behaviors are undesirable, and making restitution for their misdeeds.
 
2013-02-08 03:11:16 PM  

wedun: Magorn: In seventh grade I really couldn't bring myself to tell a nun to thier face that seconds before I punched the little punk he'd suggested my mom screwed hobos for money- so the other kids always got off scott free.

yeah darn those nuns for not letting you punch that kid for something he said.

you should have been allowed to punch him, after all in the adult world you're allowed at least one free hit if someone insults your mother.


and yet we have the concept of "fighting words" in our legal system, which is defined as "insulting or 'fighting words,' those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace".  Wonder why that is?
 
2013-02-08 03:12:56 PM  

Warlordtrooper: I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools


Cowardice.
 
2013-02-08 03:13:16 PM  

StaleCoffee: Zero tolerance only applies when it's one of the cool kids that gets hurt.

Sadly that isn't a troll.



As someone who spent much of his high school days being on the wrong end of that aphorism, I can relate. Schools, like society, really don't care about the ne'er-do-wells - they just want to get the cool kids to where their parents want them to go. The rest of us are just in the way.
 
2013-02-08 03:13:16 PM  
I was suspended for a day in 7th grade for pointing my finger at a kid and saying "pa-kew" who had shoved me backwards down the stairs ... yep, I learned my lesson that day: Even though I was the bloody one, I got the nice day home from school and the mark on my record.

Whatever, no hard feelings ...

"pa-kew"
 
2013-02-08 03:14:20 PM  

Mr Guy: Warlordtrooper: I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools

Cowardice.


Negative. They simply are using tools to make the fight a bit more fair
 
2013-02-08 03:14:34 PM  
<i>honor student, an athlete </i>

Some of the biggest bullies I knew fit that profile.
 
2013-02-08 03:15:16 PM  

doubled99: Kids fight. It was a freak occurrence. There is no need to treat the kid like a criminal.


So who's gonna pay the freakishly large hospital bill? The victim's family? The bully's family? The school's insurance?

Prosecute the bully and school district; win judgment; profit.
 
2013-02-08 03:16:53 PM  

Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.


Caning seems to be a popular deterrent in Singapore.
 
2013-02-08 03:18:23 PM  
i went to catholic school where corporal punishment was still meted out.

You got caught fighting, you got put in protective gear and put in ring.  If a much larger kid was caught bullying a smaller kid, the brother.priest would put the larger kid in the ring with someone larger than he.

And and anything that went south went a prank or whatever, was dealt with a few licks with a leather strap in front of the class.

After the few weeks of every semester everyone was a pretty polite bunch.
 
2013-02-08 03:19:51 PM  
No pic of Butch Magnus from the Boondocks yet?
 
2013-02-08 03:20:03 PM  

FormlessOne: StaleCoffee: Zero tolerance only applies when it's one of the cool kids that gets hurt.

Sadly that isn't a troll.


As someone who spent much of his high school days being on the wrong end of that aphorism, I can relate. Schools, like society, really don't care about the ne'er-do-wells - they just want to get the cool kids to where their parents want them to go. The rest of us are just in the way.


Jesus, that summed up public education perfectly.
 
2013-02-08 03:20:49 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Mr Guy: Warlordtrooper: I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools

Cowardice.

Negative. They simply are using tools to make the fight a bit more fair


As one of the recipients of bullying stories I have yet to hear be topped, where I learned to get to classes by using school rooftops and crawlspaces, I agree that it's cowardice.

I never became one of those farkers, and I never used my pain to justify being worse than them.

It is cowardice. That they were seriously injured themselves doesn't make murder any less wrong.

I grok that rage, humiliation and seething resentment. I will never let it control me though. fark those people.
 
2013-02-08 03:21:56 PM  
As somebody who had thier whole life ruined because of bullying from day 1 of grade school let me say Fark you

You're pathetic
 
2013-02-08 03:22:32 PM  

Mr Guy: Warlordtrooper: I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools

Cowardice.


No, the cowards were the ones that watched, cheered or enabled the bullies.
 
2013-02-08 03:23:50 PM  
www.rachelcericola.com

Ready to swirly this thread.
 
2013-02-08 03:24:18 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


The law does not agree.  Locally, a man was charged with murder because he got in a barfight(he was drunk) with another man (who was also drunk).  One punch, the drunk fell back and hit his head.  This was deemed murder (not sure where the settled out).  In reality, outcomes do matter.
 
2013-02-08 03:25:08 PM  
I say that jocks are involved. They will get off with nothing, because they are jocks. That's just how schools work.
 
2013-02-08 03:27:42 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


Maybe you should consider living the real world. In the real world, if you INTENTIONALLY HIT someone, and he dies later as a result of you hitting him, EVEN IF HE GOT UP AND WALKED AWAY AT THE TIME, you can go down for murder, depending upon the other circumstances. At the very least, it would be manslaughter. I say the bully should get tried as an adult. After all, he thought he was such a big, tough man when he did the deed. Let him pay the big, tough man price.
 
2013-02-08 03:27:54 PM  
I would be less concerned about the victim, and more concerned that there is a kid who beats the shiat out of other kids so badly they wind up in a coma (medically induced or not), which the school is doing little to nothing about, and that my child is sharing a schoolyard with this psychopath. Fark the coma kid, quite honestly, my concern would lie with my own child.

Phrozen

/seriously, though, i hope the victim gets better...
 
2013-02-08 03:28:04 PM  

Dinobot: I remember being bullied when I was in middle school until I had enough of it and beat the crap out of one of my tormentors... a teacher dragged me and the other kid into the principal's office.

Principal just took a look at me, told me to wash my face and go back to class and that she would take care care of the other kid.

Didn't get suspended and was never bothered from that point on.

/RIP Principal =(


Sounds like you had a good principal.

Whenever I tried to report bullying I was either told to "just ignore them" or "just don't cry" (as if I can control an involuntary function!), or I was told to essentially stop being me so I wouldn't give them anything to bully me over. Yes, the appropriate response to a 7-year old girl crying is to tell her it's her fault for being so clumsy, or ugly, or whatever else the kids were saying to her.

fark you to all the adults who either blamed me or did nothing. You can bet that during my brief stint as a teacher, I paid attention and was extra nice to the awkward kids who got picked on, and didn't allow it to happen in my sight. I also try to be extra nice to my poor niece who gets bullied by her own family. Kids suck, but adults suck worse because we should know better.
 
2013-02-08 03:28:22 PM  

Big Man On Campus: DEMAND A PLAN TO BAN HIGH CAPACITY FISTS


More people are killed each year by fists than are killed by all types of rifles.
 
2013-02-08 03:29:23 PM  

LeroyBourne: vudukungfu: LeroyBourne: That doesn't work these days, they teach the kids to dial 911 when their parents do such logical things.

Yeah, well, the responders have an obligation to check IDs and make sure the beater is related to the beatee, and then beat it.

No joke, I knew this guy who had a 4th and 5th grader, and like every day when they got home he would ask what they learned.  One day one of them answered 'if mommy or you ever hit us we're supposed to call 911.'  He was shocked, and pissed the way the schools are going down hill, and this was well over a decade ago.


My parents told me exactly what happens to kids who make their parents go away.
they go to an orphange or a foster home and get diddled by ugly people who don't love them.
Bless them for scaring the shiat out of me.
I'd have been a mugshot for sure, had they not.
 
2013-02-08 03:31:18 PM  
Used to get bullied constantly by group of 6 kids in HS growing up. After multiple times of me getting jumped by a group of people getting my face smashed in, school did nothing, parents did nothing, police did nothing. Well, until I had enough of that shiat and brought a baseball bat to school one day. Waited for three days for them to start with me during lunch break. Beat two of them bloody with the bat, other 4 ran. I get arrested for assault for defending myself and I get the criminal record. No one messed with me again after that.

//Moral of the story, just get a weapon
 
2013-02-08 03:31:43 PM  
Dear Bullies,

Columbine. 

Now stop it!
 
2013-02-08 03:33:49 PM  

Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.


You may wish to familiarize yourself with my first sentence, and with the difference between punishment and liability.
 
2013-02-08 03:37:33 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: You may wish to familiarize yourself with my first sentence, and with the difference between punishment and liability.


You're still wrong.  If this kid dies, the kids who assaulted him are on the hook for murder.  Presuming the medical examiner determines he died due to the injuries they caused him, including hitting his head on the ground.
 
2013-02-08 03:37:38 PM  

KrispyKritter: just tossing everything in from the refrigerator into a pot doesn't make a good dinner. you got good kids, you got messed up kids from messed up families, you have mentally ill kids and you have handicapped kids. the only other time you see this mix all in one stew is prison, and it's not right there either.

each group needs and deserves their own place with room to grow and achieve. as it is now those who could shine the most have all sorts of annoyances, obstacles and interruptions thrown their way. it's as if those in charge of school systems don't want your children to excel.

keep letting riff raff multiply unchecked and this crap will continue. there are few jobs as important and demanding as being a good parent. proving you are willing and able is way over due. the rich wealthy families don't give a damn about you and yours: their children attend the finest private schools. people in America need to wake up and get back to eugenics.


As long as we get to start with YOUR crotch droppings, that might not be an entirely shiatty idea, "Einstein".
 
2013-02-08 03:38:41 PM  
Why is it a school's job to charge the bully with assault?  I think we should just stay with the status quo and have the police/prosecutors deal with the situation.
 
2013-02-08 03:38:41 PM  

MycroftHolmes: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

The law does not agree.  Locally, a man was charged with murder because he got in a barfight(he was drunk) with another man (who was also drunk).  One punch, the drunk fell back and hit his head.  This was deemed murder (not sure where the settled out).  In reality, outcomes do matter.


That is the plot to Con Air.
 
2013-02-08 03:38:51 PM  

Fano: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

It's not the bully's fault that Puny Parker can't take a punch due to his radioactive bones being more brittle than pretzel sticks.


This is probably a joke that went over my head, but google Vosburg v. Putney if not. It doesn't matter if it's not the bully's fault, just like it isn't Puny Parker's fault the bully hit him in the face either (or maybe it is?) Legally speaking bully can still be held liable. Others have mentioned this upthread as the "eggshell skull" rule of thumb.
 
2013-02-08 03:40:38 PM  

2 Replies: Subby.... It was a MEDICALLY induced coma. Meaning the fight didn't put him into it, the doctors did as a preventative measure. A coma isn't always a BAD thing.


A "medically induced coma" in this instance is intended to limit the life threatening swelling of this child's brain.  It's not a preventative measure.  It's an attempt to save his life.
 
2013-02-08 03:41:55 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with my first sentence, and with the difference between punishment and liability.


Over 120 years of legal precedents says you're wrong.
 
2013-02-08 03:41:55 PM  

the_rhino: if the victim had a gun this wouldn't have happened.




The victim should have waited for the authorities. Peasants should just take a coma when offered.
 
2013-02-08 03:45:02 PM  

PsiChick: Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.

I agree, but this is a child. Expulsion would probably be the proper punishment here, and leaving it up to the parents of the injured child if they want to press charges. Children are  very farking stupid, and we as a society need to take that into account. The bully certainly should be punished, but not held to the same standard as an adult, because, let's face it--he's not, and it would be ridiculous to expect children, who normally get into fights, have any idea that they could cause a medical condition.

Like I said, expel him and make the rest up to the bullied child's parents. That would probably be enough.


I actually agree with you 100%  If the kid has a conscience, he's utterly horrified at what's happened anyway.  I gave up physically responding to being picked on after I discovered I had a nasty tendency to go beserk (in the actual Scandanavian sense of the word- feeling no pain, consciousness more or less in neutral) in fights and I REALLY hurt someone once, who may have started the fight, but didn;t deserve what happened to him (honestly he was as much a social outcast as I was, and was manipulated into attacking me)  years later I STILL feel sick a little when I think about that
 
2013-02-08 03:45:27 PM  

FinFangFark: StaleCoffee: hitlersbrain: I believe any bullies need to be ostracised... permanently. They're the lowest of human scum and one of the most disruptive and destructive elements of society. That being said, you really can't treat the kid any different than you would if his victim had not gone into a coma.

I remember one of the things my moron teachers would always say... it takes two to make a fight. It was their way of passing the buck by blaming the victim (me). It's surprising how many teachers are borderline retarded, even in 'good' schools.

I don't believe bullies should be permanently ostracized, but I do think punishments need to be a lot better thought out. Given no way to make good on what they did then why should they bother being anything other than bullying pricks?

I tell my sons that it takes two to fight, because if you just sit there and take it you're going to get an ass beating. I also told them not to worry about what the adults say - you handle the kid starting shiat, and I will deal with the adults with whom you get in trouble.

After dealing with their school for years I'm no longer surprised by the apparently vast numbers of semi moronic teachers. Don't wait 6 weeks to send me a form in triplicate that my son has been acting up, send home a note ASAP so I can set him straight that farking day.

Question - How would you react and punish your kids if you found out they were bullying other kids.  Not fighting to defend themselves, but they were the pricks picking on kids constantly?


I'd embarass the fark out of my every day of his life that he's in public and at home, he gets nothing but food and a bed til he figures out how to behave. I'm talking showing up at his school like some people dress for WalMart, standing his little misbehaving arse on a sidewalk with a sign, whatever it takes.
 
2013-02-08 03:46:16 PM  
Is ONE instance considered bullying these days?

In my day bullying was something that was seemingly ongoing  like teasing the poor kid or the fat kid or the smelly kid.

I also have a hard time grasping the idea of bullying as it is reported these days. I was bullied, so was just about every other kid in school. Why is it different? Is it the precious snowflake thingy?
 
2013-02-08 03:46:27 PM  
Just think, if the bullies had cut his hair, they'd be looking at 15 years in the slammer.
 
2013-02-08 03:47:53 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Magorn: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the "Eggshell skull" theory that is contained within our laws.  If you do something "wrong" you are liable for the consequences of that wrong action, no matter how unanticipated they may be by you.   Thus: You pnch someone, and it turns out that he has a rare genetic disorder that makes his skull as brittle as an eggshell? You are liable for his injuries, even though you had no way of knowing about his condition, because you shouldn;t have punched him in the first place.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with my first sentence, and with the difference between punishment and liability.


Three words "Felony Murder Rule"   anyone ies while you are committing a felony, you get charged with First-Degree murder, doesn;t matter if you were robbing a bank with a fake bomb and the old geezer security gaurd drops dead of a heart attack, his death is on you- and treated as premeditated murder not manslaughter
 
2013-02-08 03:48:42 PM  
For a fairly jockish kid in junior high I was a little too emotional and smart for my own good, so I got picked on a lot more than probably would be normal for a kid like me.  Growing up in the South we had a lot of the 'busing' of kids from one part of town to another for integration purposes.  That created a lot racial tension.

For a few weeks, a couple of guys who were bused to my school took it upon themselves to terrorize me.  I generally just avoided them and didn't take the bait.  Waiting at my locker to harass me, pushing me in the hallway, etc...  One day one of them made improvised brass knuckles by looping a combination lock around his middle finger.  The was used to crack me upside the back of my skull while I was in my locker between classes.  I snapped, spun around, and threw the kid up against the wall.  Before we could come to blows one of the teachers grabbed both of us by our collars and shoved us in different directions and told us to get to class.

The worm had already turned...  At lunch break on the football field, they came up and started the same shiat.  I turned my back and ignored them to talk with my friends.  I got popped in the back of the head again.  The aggressor realized he had finally gone too far while he was defending himself on the ground from a rage induced, blinding beatdown.  I don't remember much after that until one of the teachers stopped me in my sprinting, roaring pursuit of the other guy who was running for his life.  They took me and my victim to the office to call our parents.

My dad left work and came to meet with me and the principal.  Sitting there with my dad talking with the man, he explained everything that happened and that I was going to get a one day suspension.  My dad looked at me and asked, "did that kid start it?"  I told him, "yes."  To which dad said, "Ok.  Good for you. Where do you want to go to lunch today?  Wendy's?"
The principal then cracked a huge smile and told Dad that he had to follow policy and send me home, but chucking while he told us both that, "I don't think those kids will be bothering you again."  They never did.
 
2013-02-08 03:49:46 PM  

Magorn: I actually agree with you 100%  If the kid has a conscience, he's utterly horrified at what's happened anyway.  I gave up physically responding to being picked on after I discovered I had a nasty tendency to go beserk (in the actual Scandanavian sense of the word- feeling no pain, consciousness more or less in neutral) in fights and I REALLY hurt someone once, who may have started the fight, but didn;t deserve what happened to him (honestly he was as much a social outcast as I was, and was manipulated into attacking me)  years later I STILL feel sick a little when I think about that


Well, I was thinking more that he's just stupid inherently, but yes, his conscience is probably a worse punishment than anything society can come up with now.

/Go look up Pagan Beserkers, you might like them. They have the same trait, and they have a lot of stuff out about how to work with it.
 
2013-02-08 03:50:35 PM  

poot_rootbeer: kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?

I have never known a sixth-grader worth keeping, and that includes myself at that age.


6th-8th graders fall under the definition of "hellspawn", for the most part. I don't envy any teachers who have to deal with that age group...

/ I'm not capable of doing their job
// would probably get sentenced 30-years to Life if I tried...
 
2013-02-08 03:55:17 PM  

fawlty: Just think, if the bullies had cut his hair, they'd be looking at 15 years in the slammer.



Not if their daddy's rich.


kylemarchand.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-08 03:58:28 PM  

theflatline: MycroftHolmes: ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

The law does not agree.  Locally, a man was charged with murder because he got in a barfight(he was drunk) with another man (who was also drunk).  One punch, the drunk fell back and hit his head.  This was deemed murder (not sure where the settled out).  In reality, outcomes do matter.

That is the plot to Con Air.


This was not the case I was referring to, but it seems like a pretty common occurrence

http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/39323062.html
 
2013-02-08 03:58:29 PM  

deanis: Is ONE instance considered bullying these days?

In my day bullying was something that was seemingly ongoing  like teasing the poor kid or the fat kid or the smelly kid.

I also have a hard time grasping the idea of bullying as it is reported these days. I was bullied, so was just about every other kid in school. Why is it different? Is it the precious snowflake thingy?


It's different now because you cannot retaliate. When I went to school, I beat the ever living tar out of kids that would bully other kids. That was really fun and satisfying. Some of those bullies would learn their lesson and I was friends with them after that. My little brother was the only kid not picked on by older kids because they knew that if they messed with them, they would be missing teeth. Kids, in general now, do not respect or FEAR authority. If there is no fear of consequence, then you are free of action. That is a BIG difference now, and then. Back in the day, you might not care to get suspended but it sure sucked getting paddled or your ass kicked by your parents. Parents now would put the kids in "time out" or take away their cell-phones oooooh! I think today, situations often escalate to the extreme and you have kids backed into the corner going psycho.
 
2013-02-08 03:58:30 PM  

LeroyBourne: No joke, I knew this guy who had a 4th and 5th grader, and like every day when they got home he would ask what they learned.  One day one of them answered 'if mommy or you ever hit us we're supposed to call 911.'  He was shocked, and pissed the way the schools are going down hill, and this was well over a decade ago.


Yeah, it was better in the olden days, when schools looked the other way when parents were abusing their children.
 
2013-02-08 03:59:17 PM  
Came for the people saying "it's only a medial coma".

Leaving satisfied and still shaking my head in disbelief at these people.
 
2013-02-08 04:02:32 PM  

poot_rootbeer: LeroyBourne: No joke, I knew this guy who had a 4th and 5th grader, and like every day when they got home he would ask what they learned.  One day one of them answered 'if mommy or you ever hit us we're supposed to call 911.'  He was shocked, and pissed the way the schools are going down hill, and this was well over a decade ago.

Yeah, it was better in the olden days, when schools looked the other way when parents were abusing their children.


Pick your poison, neglect or abuse. Although neither are desirable, certainly neglect and apathy isn't any better. Absent parents and dysfunctional families have created a society with no moral compass and that feel entitled.
 
2013-02-08 04:05:36 PM  

I should be in the kitchen: Dinobot: I remember being bullied when I was in middle school until I had enough of it and beat the crap out of one of my tormentors... a teacher dragged me and the other kid into the principal's office.

Principal just took a look at me, told me to wash my face and go back to class and that she would take care care of the other kid.

Didn't get suspended and was never bothered from that point on.

/RIP Principal =(

Sounds like you had a good principal.

Whenever I tried to report bullying I was either told to "just ignore them" or "just don't cry" (as if I can control an involuntary function!), or I was told to essentially stop being me so I wouldn't give them anything to bully me over. Yes, the appropriate response to a 7-year old girl crying is to tell her it's her fault for being so clumsy, or ugly, or whatever else the kids were saying to her.

fark you to all the adults who either blamed me or did nothing. You can bet that during my brief stint as a teacher, I paid attention and was extra nice to the awkward kids who got picked on, and didn't allow it to happen in my sight. I also try to be extra nice to my poor niece who gets bullied by her own family. Kids suck, but adults suck worse because we should know better.


I'm really sorry you had to deal with that. I guess the reason why I got away with it was because I was one of the top students (straight A's) thru middle school -- that being said, before that, I'd report them and the counselors would talk to the bullies, then would proceed to smack me outside the school instead... they only got suspended once before fight -- and that's because they used me as their only target during dodgeball, and I ended up peeing blood for several days from all the bruises in my back... (scumbag coach)

But once they knew I'd fight back, they just stopped..
 
2013-02-08 04:09:25 PM  

edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police? Sounds like they didn't do anything until the kid was in the hospital.


Try reading text instead of listening to it.
 
2013-02-08 04:11:00 PM  

PsiChick: Magorn: I actually agree with you 100%  If the kid has a conscience, he's utterly horrified at what's happened anyway.  I gave up physically responding to being picked on after I discovered I had a nasty tendency to go beserk (in the actual Scandanavian sense of the word- feeling no pain, consciousness more or less in neutral) in fights and I REALLY hurt someone once, who may have started the fight, but didn;t deserve what happened to him (honestly he was as much a social outcast as I was, and was manipulated into attacking me)  years later I STILL feel sick a little when I think about that

Well, I was thinking more that he's just stupid inherently, but yes, his conscience is probably a worse punishment than anything society can come up with now.

/Go look up Pagan Beserkers, you might like them. They have the same trait, and they have a lot of stuff out about how to work with it.


Thanks for the tip, though 20 years, Declining testosterone levels after adolescence (i had to shave everyday starting when I was 12 and was balding by 20) and a few year's study of Aikido did a lot to allieviate the issue for me already.  "The beast" is still there, but I t takes an extraorinary situation to wake him ( Ironically, only those very closest to me can even get under my skin enough to incite that kind of rage these days, total strangers just can't even when they are actively trying to hurt me physically) and usually I can either get away from the situation or at least convert my anger into something verbal rather than physical
 
2013-02-08 04:11:54 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: Came for the people saying "it's only a medial coma".

Leaving satisfied and still shaking my head in disbelief at these people.


You mean to tell me that it's not a big deal to place someone under a general anesthetic, chemical paralysis, mechanical ventilation, with an intracranial pressure monitor sticking into their brain, a central venous line, a Foley catheter in their bladder, a feeding tube in their duodenum, and on diuretics for days and weeks at a time?  Surely nothing bad could happen with such simple preventative measures.
 
2013-02-08 04:12:20 PM  

Magorn: and yet we have the concept of "fighting words" in our legal system, which is defined as "insulting or 'fighting words,' those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace". Wonder why that is?


I followed your links, supreme court in Jock v Nerd sets the precedent for wedgies and swirlies as a justified retaliation for a "your mom" insult.
 
2013-02-08 04:13:55 PM  

durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.


If you're taking the trouble to go to their house, might as well kill 'em all.

Seriously.  That is farked up.
 
2013-02-08 04:15:31 PM  

TurboCojones: Jim from Saint Paul: Came for the people saying "it's only a medial coma".

Leaving satisfied and still shaking my head in disbelief at these people.

You mean to tell me that it's not a big deal to place someone under a general anesthetic, chemical paralysis, mechanical ventilation, with an intracranial pressure monitor sticking into their brain, a central venous line, a Foley catheter in their bladder, a feeding tube in their duodenum, and on diuretics for days and weeks at a time?  Surely nothing bad could happen with such simple preventative measures.


I think Jim thinks quite the opposite.
 
2013-02-08 04:16:50 PM  
One kid punched another kid. Was the bully the puncher or the kid who might have done something to provoke the punches? Its hard to tell.

Some farkers are bragging of beating up a bully in school so I wonder if they see themselves as the puncher or the punchee in this scenario.
 
2013-02-08 04:18:44 PM  

Magorn: PsiChick: Magorn: I actually agree with you 100%  If the kid has a conscience, he's utterly horrified at what's happened anyway.  I gave up physically responding to being picked on after I discovered I had a nasty tendency to go beserk (in the actual Scandanavian sense of the word- feeling no pain, consciousness more or less in neutral) in fights and I REALLY hurt someone once, who may have started the fight, but didn;t deserve what happened to him (honestly he was as much a social outcast as I was, and was manipulated into attacking me)  years later I STILL feel sick a little when I think about that

Well, I was thinking more that he's just stupid inherently, but yes, his conscience is probably a worse punishment than anything society can come up with now.

/Go look up Pagan Beserkers, you might like them. They have the same trait, and they have a lot of stuff out about how to work with it.

Thanks for the tip, though 20 years, Declining testosterone levels after adolescence (i had to shave everyday starting when I was 12 and was balding by 20) and a few year's study of Aikido did a lot to allieviate the issue for me already.  "The beast" is still there, but I t takes an extraorinary situation to wake him ( Ironically, only those very closest to me can even get under my skin enough to incite that kind of rage these days, total strangers just can't even when they are actively trying to hurt me physically) and usually I can either get away from the situation or at least convert my anger into something verbal rather than physical


Yeah, you don't sound the type to have problems going off on strangers, but I thought you might like some of their fun stuff. Apparently they have some camps where they go do adrenaline-inducing insanity for the hell of it and other such things.
 
2013-02-08 04:19:36 PM  
 
2013-02-08 04:23:11 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com

Takes out the bully AND cleans the gene pool at the same time.
 
2013-02-08 04:24:09 PM  

hitlersbrain: Mr Guy: Warlordtrooper: I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools

Cowardice.

No, the cowards were the ones that watched, cheered or enabled the bullies.


Glorifying it doesn't help.  It's cowardice to choose to inflict harm to protect yourself from harm.  Strength occasionally requires you to know what you can endure.  Bullying isn't the strong in ONE area picking on the weak in ANOTHER.  It's the weak picking on the weak, often while the strong fails to identify with EITHER side, often because there's something reasonable about the bullying.

Example: In isolation, most kids will tell you picking on another kid's reading skills isn't acceptable.  In the actual classroom, if everyone is stuck waiting for the same person, consistently, bullying emerges as a way of the classroom dealing with the frustration of dealing with the outlier.  In that particular case, the actual cause of the bullying could be anything from the need of a pair of glasses, to the victim not doing their homework properly, to classroom overcrowding or insufficient resources.  It's impossible to know that with blanket statements.  You have to know what someone is attempting to gain from the exercise of power in order to understand it.  You have to teach kids that it ISN'T fair that the slow hold back the strong, but the strong must endure it, because they have that option.  You have to deal with the frustration of explaining to a child why they have to deal with someone who doesn't try as hard as they do, but is still considered equal in the eyes of the law.  You have to teach kids to exercise power responsibly, and productively, and teach them the maximum benefit to all often comes from individual sacrifice.  Fortunately, sports can often be used to teach these sorts of lessons to the physically aggressive bully, but it's much harder to teach those concepts to intellectual bullies.  You have to teach them to conceptualize the damage they are doing, and that's difficult.
 
2013-02-08 04:25:37 PM  

Dinobot: But once they knew I'd fight back, they just stopped..


Yeah, interesting what breaking one guy's nose will do.
 
2013-02-08 04:26:12 PM  

Breygon: letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting aberrant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.

A good bully saves lives.

[img.photobucket.com image 220x170]
eh, not always


School shootings are a small price to pay to ensure that childhood continues to be hell for the kids too weak to stop it.

Weakness deserves what it gets.
 
2013-02-08 04:36:32 PM  

treesloth: Dinobot: But once they knew I'd fight back, they just stopped..

Yeah, interesting what breaking one guy's nose will do.


I never broke the other kid's nose...
 
2013-02-08 04:38:21 PM  

Atomic Spunk: durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.

Nice, in theory. The reality is that if the kid was violent enough to put his female teacher in a headlock, the kid's father is likely an ornery SOB. If you went to their home with the intention of picking a fight, you'd probably find yourself looking down the wrong end of a shotgun.


Then I shoot the ornery SOB in the face and claim I was defending msyelf, and the world still ends up a better place.
 
2013-02-08 04:47:05 PM  

durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.


Why was it a matter for the principle, why couldnt the teacher file charges?

A black eye or some bumps and bruises, schoolyard stuff, let the school handle that with detention/suspension etc.

Broken bones, concussions, comas etc... then its beyond simple schoolyard stuff.
 
2013-02-08 04:47:24 PM  
We must immediately ban all fists
 
2013-02-08 04:47:38 PM  
I was bullied very badly when I was a kid. Years later, I had the opportunity to break a pool cue across the face of the (now adult) man who bullied me. It felt FARKING great! For all the years I felt like I was worthless because I listened to (and believed) an a$$hole, because I didn't know any better, and because I just wanted to be left alone. I was small, weak, and weird. And breaking his face did indeed make me feel MUCH better! Because that's the only "communication" he could understand.
 
2013-02-08 04:47:46 PM  

over_and_done: Atomic Spunk: durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.

Nice, in theory. The reality is that if the kid was violent enough to put his female teacher in a headlock, the kid's father is likely an ornery SOB. If you went to their home with the intention of picking a fight, you'd probably find yourself looking down the wrong end of a shotgun.

Then I shoot the ornery SOB in the face and claim I was defending msyelf, and the world still ends up a better place.


Pfft.

I would have hogtied and suspended him on a meathook in a walk-in freezer.  Then I would spend hours using a unfurled wire hanger and whip him until his skin becomes ribbons. Then I would start ripping his skin off strip by strip like you would a chicken brease until his entire body is a dripping, bloody mess.

I would then smear his body in feces and seal him in an oil drum until his body putrefies.  After a week, I would find out where he live and smear his liquid remains all over the house for all of his family to see. Then I would lay low for a while and stalk all of hims family members.  Whenever one of his relatives has a male child, I would kill him in the same way I did the bully once he reaches the bully's age.  I would also train my own children the same art and have them stalk future generations once I pass away so that the curse will stay with the family forever.

Once the last members of the bully's family die out, my offspring would anonymously reveal my plot and teach the world the follies of bullying.
 
2013-02-08 04:47:49 PM  

d23: kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?

I have never, ever, ever felt more justified in using this image than I do now...


lightenupfrancis.jpg

/and EABOD
 
2013-02-08 04:57:29 PM  

super_grass: over_and_done: Atomic Spunk: durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.

Nice, in theory. The reality is that if the kid was violent enough to put his female teacher in a headlock, the kid's father is likely an ornery SOB. If you went to their home with the intention of picking a fight, you'd probably find yourself looking down the wrong end of a shotgun.

Then I shoot the ornery SOB in the face and claim I was defending msyelf, and the world still ends up a better place.

Pfft.

I would have hogtied and suspended him on a meathook in a walk-in freezer.  Then I would spend hours using a unfurled wire hanger and whip him until his skin becomes ribbons. Then I would start ripping his skin off strip by strip like you would a chicken brease until his entire body is a dripping, bloody mess.

I would then smear his body in feces and seal him in an oil drum until his body putrefies.  After a week, I would find out where he live and smear his liquid remains all over the house for all of his family to see. Then I would lay low for a while and stalk all of hims family members.  Whenever one of his relatives has a male child, I would kill him in the same way I did the bully once he reaches the bully's age.  I would also train my own children the same art and have them stalk future generations once I pass away so that the curse will stay with the family forever.

Once the last members of the bully's family die ...


Anything more would just be overkill.
 
2013-02-08 05:09:20 PM  

super_grass: [25.media.tumblr.com image 475x360]

Takes out the bully AND cleans the gene pool at the same time.


I love you for that.
 
2013-02-08 05:09:47 PM  

kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story


This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.
 
2013-02-08 05:13:18 PM  
Bobby_and_The_Gorilla Smartest Funniest
2013-02-08 02:41:26 PM

THIS is why I can't have kids, RIGHT HERE. Because if ANY damn ass crotch creature from some MISGUIDED and IDIOT PARENTS DARE LAY a FINGER on MY CHILD. I WILL GO FULL JULES FROM PULP FICTION ON THE LITTLE RAT BASTARD! AND THEY SHALL KNOW MY NAME IS THE *LORD* WHEN I LAY MY VENGEANCE UPON THEM!

You never go Full Jules!


You know, I keep hearing tough guys saying that. Yet I can count exactly twice that it been followed up on..

Gary Plauche (video on youtube, but I'm not linking to it)
and
Ellie Nesler
 
2013-02-08 05:15:09 PM  
Warlordtrooper

But if the kid responds to the bullying with a gun they will blame the kid gun and call him crazy instead of addressing the real issue of bullying

Fixed that for you.
 
2013-02-08 05:17:10 PM  
It's OK. I'm pretty sure the kid's family has already been contacted by numerous lawyers. One big fat settlement later and the school district will punish the next coma-causing asshole extra hard to make up for this one.
 
2013-02-08 05:21:03 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.


There is a legal principal, which roughly states, the law takes it's bodies as it finds them.  You drive drunk, you drive onto the side walk and a young man on the side walk manages to avoid injury by jumping on your hood, you get a DUI.  Replace the young guy with an old lady, who gets knocked down, breaks her hip and died of pneumonia ten days later, it's 2nd degree murder.
 
2013-02-08 05:23:58 PM  

durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.


The teacher needs to call the police herself and report it as an assault, the school will not do it.

My brother was getting picked on by some neanderthal at school, my parents talked to the school, the kid's mom, etc, this went on for months. Finally one day my brother got beaten up bad and they reported his ass to the police.

Neanderthal's Mom finally did something about her kid when a police officer knocked on the door.

/Should NOT have come to that
 
2013-02-08 05:31:35 PM  

Allen. The end.: I was bullied very badly when I was a kid. Years later, I had the opportunity to break a pool cue across the face of the (now adult) man who bullied me. It felt FARKING great! For all the years I felt like I was worthless because I listened to (and believed) an a$$hole, because I didn't know any better, and because I just wanted to be left alone. I was small, weak, and weird. And breaking his face did indeed make me feel MUCH better! Because that's the only "communication" he could understand.


If often wonder if those kids offed themselves afterwards just 'cause they knew nothing in life could ever even come close to feeling that good again.
 
2013-02-08 05:37:29 PM  

Elandriel: See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing


Outside of feel good movies, that bigger bully is usually called "dad" or "mommas drunk boyfriend" and hitting a bully in the nose is going to get your ass kicked harder because he has plenty of experience on taking a punch.

/Grew up in a cushy home, but have friends who know a thing or two about this
 
2013-02-08 05:38:14 PM  

trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.


Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.
 
2013-02-08 05:44:01 PM  

Mr Guy: hitlersbrain: Mr Guy: Warlordtrooper: I completely understand why victims of bullying shoot up schools

Cowardice.

No, the cowards were the ones that watched, cheered or enabled the bullies.

Glorifying it doesn't help.  It's cowardice to choose to inflict harm to protect yourself from harm.  Strength occasionally requires you to know what you can endure.  Bullying isn't the strong in ONE area picking on the weak in ANOTHER.  It's the weak picking on the weak, often while the strong fails to identify with EITHER side, often because there's something reasonable about the bullying.

Example: In isolation, most kids will tell you picking on another kid's reading skills isn't acceptable.  In the actual classroom, if everyone is stuck waiting for the same person, consistently, bullying emerges as a way of the classroom dealing with the frustration of dealing with the outlier.  In that particular case, the actual cause of the bullying could be anything from the need of a pair of glasses, to the victim not doing their homework properly, to classroom overcrowding or insufficient resources.  It's impossible to know that with blanket statements.  You have to know what someone is attempting to gain from the exercise of power in order to understand it.  You have to teach kids that it ISN'T fair that the slow hold back the strong, but the strong must endure it, because they have that option.  You have to deal with the frustration of explaining to a child why they have to deal with someone who doesn't try as hard as they do, but is still considered equal in the eyes of the law.  You have to teach kids to exercise power responsibly, and productively, and teach them the maximum benefit to all often comes from individual sacrifice.  Fortunately, sports can often be used to teach these sorts of lessons to the physically aggressive bully, but it's much harder to teach those concepts to intellectual bullies.  You have to teach them to conceptualize the damage they are doing, and that' ...


It's hard to convey but think that you are garbage to everyone around you. Parents, kids, teachers... everyone. You didn't do anything to warrant this. You can't do anything to stop it. And people won't even let you just be alone and miserable, they need to rub it in every... single... day. Just the thought of hurting the people hurting you and the people standing around watching and laughing is ... poetic. Fortunately for the 'normal kids' outsiders tend to be some of the best people and these things are rare.
 
2013-02-08 05:45:55 PM  
The bully/bullies should be in Juvie.
 
2013-02-08 06:21:45 PM  

Elandriel: Sometimes, I wish eye for an eye were a thing we did.  Sometimes.

See if the bully would be so eager to beat the snot out of some kid, if someone even bigger than the bully then got to come and do the same thing.


Unfortunately they force kids to swallow the zero tolerance bullshiat instead of actually trying to be fair. Forces kids that would help to back down. Was always the problem when I was in school and that policy was just being introduced then. Luckily before it did come in I was being bullied someone stepped in and helped me against a larger group. Ended up being friends from then on and developed a good group of friends that have stuck together through alot of crap.
Fear of punishment doesnt work so well on the kids that dont care to begin with. All it has done is ensure the 'no good deed goes unpunished' mentality prevails.

We dont care if you tried to help someone! You got violent with someone!
 
2013-02-08 06:34:07 PM  

edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police? Sounds like they didn't do anything until the kid was in the hospital.


Of course not.  That would be admitting there was a problem.

Magorn: A kid capable of beating a fellow student into a coma probably has a "rap sheet" already in the school, not to mention a differential diagnois of anti-social personality disorder, or ADHD or somesuch, so the school adminstrators are worried about getting hit with an IDEA lawsuit if the crack down on HIM, besides, the school counselor thinks he's a "troubled kid" from a bad home, and is therefore a perfect reclamation project where she gets to actually USE that LCSW degree she earned before getting the job.


Yup.  The rules are only enforced on kids whose parents don't have a lawyer on speed-dial.

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.


Most bullying doesn't break bones.

durbnpoisn: My wife works at the elementary school up the street.  Last week one of the teachers there got put into a headlock by a student.  In the esuing scuffle, he somehow ended up breaking her hand.

See, to me, that's a simple matter of assault.  No question.  The kid should have been taken away by the police, and suspended for at least a few weeks.

But, in this case, the Principle just yelled at the kid and sent him home.  He was back the next day.

That's pretty f'n stupid.  If that were my wife with the broken hand, I would have gone to the kid's hous and kicked his father's ass for being a lousy parent.


Why didn't she go to the police herself?

Akuinnen: I would say it was a result of the fall. Even a grown person can die if they land hard on the back of their head. Kid probably hit cement.


Yeah, we had a case like that.  One punch, the guy fell onto concrete and died.  Defending your wife is fine but don't respond to words with punches!
 
2013-02-08 06:44:20 PM  

deanis: Is ONE instance considered bullying these days?

In my day bullying was something that was seemingly ongoing  like teasing the poor kid or the fat kid or the smelly kid.

I also have a hard time grasping the idea of bullying as it is reported these days. I was bullied, so was just about every other kid in school. Why is it different? Is it the precious snowflake thingy?


No, it's that it used to be ignored.  The actual rate of bullying injuries and people driven to suicide from bullying are down, it's just that they now are news.
 
2013-02-08 07:14:06 PM  

Mr Guy: FinFangFark: Question - How would you react and punish your kids if you found out they were bullying other kids. Not fighting to defend themselves, but they were the pricks picking on kids constantly?

For starters, I'd find out why, from their point of view, was picking on kids, and try and establish from the other side what the perception of their behavior was.  I've seen bullying be the result of trouble at home, but I've also seen it be the result of years of defensive behavior.  There's a big problem these days with the smart kids torturing the dumb ones verbally, and claiming bullying if there's a physical response, and an even bigger problem with bullies that are strong but small, picking on larger fatter kids that people assume can fend for themselves.  If I can figure out what the bullying triggers are, I'd address them directly.  First I'd make sure there wasn't a hormonal imbalance angle by making sure my child's fluids and nutritional intake aren't leading to a sugar or testosterone spike or valley in the middle of the school day.  I'd make sure my kid was well exercised and well hydrated, to be sure they have the best possible chance of controlling themselves.  Then I'd discuss the behavior with them, and take them step by step through the problem, and the causes.  I'd explain to them what their patterns of behaviors reveal about their insecurities and their own fears, and try and redirect them in a positive way.  I'd force my child to confront both their actions and their results, that they are responsible for, and the realities of the environment around them, and discuss with them how they could have better handled events to achieve a more positive outcome.  I'd work on regularly teaching them to take control of their own reactions, and teach them to feel secure in themselves, so they can influence others in less forceful ways.  Finally, I'd establish a mechanism of reporting so they'd know their efforts were being monitored directly.  I'd ensure they ...


Yeah, fark that noise.

I've told both my kids that if I ever catch wind of them being a shiathead to another kid, there'd be hell to pay.  And they have a healthy amount of fear of crossing me that there's never been an issue.  A good cuff upside the head, severe and creative groundings as well as making restitution to their victim are definitely at the top of the list.

All this 'let's talk it out and find out how you feel' gets you nowhere.  You're a parent.  It's your job to teach empathy by ensuring your child receives swift retribution for behavior towards others that isn't acceptable.
 
2013-02-08 07:32:43 PM  

img577.imageshack.us

Dr. Douglas Ambler
Acting Director of Pupil Services
Southeast Delco School District
Darby Township, Penn.



Picture of posted on the right during a search of "Darby Township School"
Should have taken a better picture.
 
2013-02-08 08:21:37 PM  

highbrow45: Why aren't these kids armed? This kid would be attending class today if Obama hadn't gotten in the way of his right to defend himself with a gun!


Some of the comments are seriously blaming Obama for this and are more over the top than your joking blame.  Poe's Law in effect:

Dane: A kid draws a doodle of a gun and the school gives him a three day suspension. A bully beats a boy to the point that he needs to be put in a two week coma and he gets a two day suspension, with no charges filed. Is the school system also in Obama's pocket????? This is outrageous.
 
2013-02-08 08:22:23 PM  
Wake it off...
 
2013-02-08 08:28:33 PM  

OnlyM3: Liberal school logic: Put kid in coma = 2 day suspension
"L" shaped bit of paper or draw a cartoon of a gun = 5 day suspension

Actions speak so loudly.


OnlyM3 logic: anything that ever happens = LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS
Anything that doesn't happen = LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS

Retards speak so loudly.
 
2013-02-08 09:24:02 PM  

letrole: In Sweden, bullies are identified early on in grade school. Rather than suppress the trait, the bullies are taught to think of themselves as 'sheep dogs', and their classmates are the flock they protect. They still 'bully' and sometimes berate, but with their behaviour corrected to a useful or at least more benign role.

Same bully, same jackass really, but he's picking on you for cutting class instead of how you comb your hair.


So, police academy prep classes.  How farsighted!
 
2013-02-08 09:29:38 PM  

Deucednuisance: ChaoticLimbs: People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.

This is what I love about Fark.

Where people who don't know what they're talking about get to definitively explain the law.

And get every particular 100-percent wrong.

Shoe past someone and they fall and subsequently die.  Did you "kill" him?  Yes.

Assault someone and they eventually die as a result?  That's Murder.

Congratulations.  You are 100-percent wrong.

Go to the rear of the class.


Truly. I've read of a guy who died decades after being shot and his shooter was charged with murder.  Bullet was too risky to remove, eventually shifted and killed him.
 
2013-02-08 10:41:32 PM  

kendelrio: Is it time to have a discussion about banning sixth-graders?


as this crime was committed with bare hands and feet (which according to the FBI are responsible for more murders and violent crimes than rifles) we should force all children should be strapped to a gurney with only one hand free for writing so that this can never happen again.
 
2013-02-09 01:04:21 AM  

edmo: Does someone have to get shot before they'll call the police?


No, just draw a facsimile of a gun.

/The police response to an incident at a school is the inverse of the police response to the same incident in the real world.
 
2013-02-09 02:22:01 AM  
You have to respect the control this boy's parents and family have, because Lord knows if this happened to my nephew I'd snap the evil little bastard's necks. If I didn't someone else would. There is no 'turn the other cheek' when it comes to someone doing this. Someone needs to set upa fundraiser for them. I cannot imagine what they're going through. If the internet community can raise $20K for a Devon Dudley looking douche mall cop then surely something can be done for these people.
 
2013-02-09 10:29:44 AM  

occamswrist: trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.

Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.


i think the part of the story that gets ignored is what caused the harm.  he got knocked down, which caused a concussion.  i know people who have fallen, without the assistance of bullies, and suffered concussions.  the thing about head injuries is that they are unpredictable and can be lethal, even when the cause didn't seem to be that much.
 
2013-02-09 01:42:44 PM  

PsiChick: I agree, but this is a child. Expulsion would probably be the proper punishment here, and leaving it up to the parents of the injured child if they want to press charges. Children are very farking stupid, and we as a society need to take that into account. The bully certainly should be punished, but not held to the same standard as an adult, because, let's face it--he's not, and it would be ridiculous to expect children, who normally get into fights, have any idea that they could cause a medical condition.

Like I said, expel him and make the rest up to the bullied child's parents. That would probably be enough.



I agree that the school is limited in terms of dealing with a case of this nature, but I think it should be a police matter regardless of wether or not the parents file a complaint.  Although allowances must be made for children, this case is severe enough to warrant that the facts be brought to a juvenile court to determine the proper consequences. In cases where children are extremely violent and out of control they may need to be placed in a different setting so that they may be rehabilitated.  Ideally, juvie would include treatment and supervision by those who could correct such behavior. In practice, juvie may not be ideal either, but the need for reform is a seperate issue.  The general population deserves to be protected.  I hope the parents go to the police and file a complaint. If they don't, maybe the police should investigate on their own.
 
2013-02-09 01:50:34 PM  

pute kisses like a man: occamswrist: trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.

Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.

i think the part of the story that gets ignored is what caused the harm.  he got knocked down, which caused a concussion.  i know people who have fallen, without the assistance of bullies, and suffered concussions.  the thing about head injuries is that they are unpredictable and can be lethal, even when the cause didn't seem to be that much.


He didn't just fall - his nose was broken and he took from multiple hits to the face.  It shouldn't really be unexpected that something further may happen if you punch someone's nose in.
 
2013-02-09 02:22:27 PM  

Aunt Crabby: I agree that the school is limited in terms of dealing with a case of this nature, but I think it should be a police matter regardless of wether or not the parents file a complaint.  Although allowances must be made for children, this case is severe enough to warrant that the facts be brought to a juvenile court to determine the proper consequences. In cases where children are extremely violent and out of control they may need to be placed in a different setting so that they may be rehabilitated.  Ideally, juvie would include treatment and supervision by those who could correct such behavior. In practice, juvie may not be ideal either, but the need for reform is a seperate issue.  The general population deserves to be protected.  I hope the parents go to the police and file a complaint. If they don't, maybe the police should investigate on their own.


Zero-tolerance laws for kids? We have those. They're cited as the most common reason people have an insanely hard time turning their lives around after the first conviction. And the general population deserves to be protected? From what, a tween who punched another kid in the face? I don't know how often you're around tweens, but they spend half their time trying to start fights. Doesn't mean they shouldn't face consequences, but seriously, this isn't a monster we're talking about, it's a horrible, preventable accident, and needs to be dealt with realistically.

/I'm being nice about it, but your POV basically takes kids and turns them into career criminals. There's a reason children are legally different from adults, and not everything needs to be resolved by police action, because the policeand courts  do not care about anything except making people feel safer by punishing the scary teen monsters. Kids screw up, and it needs to be handled calmly and realistically,  not with zero-tolerance legal action.
 
2013-02-09 03:45:45 PM  

ErinPac: pute kisses like a man: occamswrist: trappedspirit: kindms: And dad says bullying. They only suspended the other kid 2 days which sort of indicates there might be more to this story

This is fark.  There is always more to the story.  We just back into our respective corners of assumption about what those other factors are and fling poo at people for having backed into a different corner.

Haha so right you are!  It helps to not really care one way or the other if you want to see more sides to an argument.

i think the part of the story that gets ignored is what caused the harm.  he got knocked down, which caused a concussion.  i know people who have fallen, without the assistance of bullies, and suffered concussions.  the thing about head injuries is that they are unpredictable and can be lethal, even when the cause didn't seem to be that much.

He didn't just fall - his nose was broken and he took from multiple hits to the face.  It shouldn't really be unexpected that something further may happen if you punch someone's nose in.


ok, i didn't read that in the article.  either the article didn't include it, or I didn't read too carefully.  thanks for the correction/information.
 
2013-02-09 03:54:15 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: Punishments are meted out based on what a child DID, not by what happened as a result. The bully hit a kid, that carries a punishment of suspension. The coma was his fault, but he didn't do anything more than most middle schoolers do.

Save your outrage. People fall down and sometimes damage their brains. If you shoved past someone to get on the subway, and as a result, he fell down and was stepped on and died, did you kill that person? No. But it's your fault that he died.
Shoving a person and murdering a person are different. Both are bad, but one is murder and one is rudeness or assault.


You're just farking stupid. If in the result of a fist fight I kill someone, I'm going to be charged with manslaughter at best, murder at worst. You fail, fool.

At any rate...

This is why my kids will be enrolled in Jiu Jitsu soon. Because I'm not allowing this shiat to happen to my kids. If they throw the first punch, there will be hell to pay. If they defend themselves, I will never punish them for it. I will encourage them to never start a fight, but to ALWAYS end it.
 
2013-02-11 02:46:22 PM  

Dinobot: I never broke the other kid's nose...


I mean that I had a similar story to yours, but I did break the kid's nose.
 
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