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(Guardian)   Inquiring grammar lovers would like to know, are you an infinitive splitter?   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 83
    More: Interesting, infinitive splitter, grammar lovers, infinitives, grammars, splitting  
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3519 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Feb 2013 at 12:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-08 04:18:07 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: Galloping Galoshes: Walt_Jizzney: This link would be so much cooler if it were a "Featured Partner"!

I am beginning to hate those and am considering driving to Kentucky to tell Drew so, except that it involves actually going to Kentucky.

AdBlock.  I'm tellin' ya.


I've AdBlock (and Ghostery, and...) and now I am getting a NoScript injecting a line that just says "Buzzfeed" with a doubleclick URL. Used Greasemonkey to just strip the page of all NoScript elements.

Also, if anyone is interested, I have a Greasemonkey script that strips out headlines from sites you don't care about. Based on MrEricSir's implementation of Britney Spear's Speculum's derpifier, but removes them entirely rather than just altering the link image.
 
2013-02-08 04:50:30 PM

Stone Meadow: aerojockey: It is very wrong to brazenly split infinitives.

[blog.kontera.com image 300x180]


Wrong is it, very, brazen infinitives to split.

// English isn't German either.
 
2013-02-08 04:52:46 PM
Double negatives, no problem. Happens in French and many other languages all the time. Nobody never did no harm with one. It's just a form of accentuating the negative, thus eliminating the positive. Use with discretion, and freely, if you like, in the vernacular.

Split infinitives--if it sounds weird, avoid it, if not, feel free to boldly go.There are languages that stuff important grammatical functions into the middle of words. As MAD magazine put it in their parody of A Crock of 'Blips Now, fan-farking-tastic! They used every--or nearly every-- form of the F-bomb in one sentence to parody the blue language of the movie. Then they doubled down.

Ending a sentence with a preposition--sometimes a man does what a man's gotta. I've nearly broken my neck trying to twist a sentence around to avoid a preposition falling at the end, so it's clear that God just meant it to happen, like gay marriage. Besides, it's only Latin that doesn't let that kind of thing go by. Many other languages do it all the time, and English is one of them.

Prescriptive grammar invariably comes up against cases where it sounds stilted or meaning and style is lost because the bête-noires of school-marms are not laws of nature, but only common sense. Common sense, as Voltaire quipped, is not common.
 
2013-02-08 04:53:59 PM
Yes I am an infinitive splitter, and I didn't even know it. I just write what comes out of my brain without worrying about grammar rules, as if to callously ignore the sentence structure rules I learned in elementary school over 40 years ago.
 
2013-02-08 04:55:09 PM
Being a dangling participant, this thread is giving me a kick.
 
2013-02-08 04:57:45 PM
Anybody remember the famous preposition-laden question asked by a fictional small child:

Why did you have to bring that book up about down under for?

Or words to that effect.

I believe it is often attributed to (Mr. or Sir) Winston Churchill, who is considered by many conservatives to be a master of plain English, and admired by them almost as much as Latinists admire Caesar's Gallic Commentaries although Caesar continually uses the third person when talking about himself through out several volumes of self-serving prose.
 
2013-02-08 05:00:48 PM

Diagonal: Stone Meadow: aerojockey: It is very wrong to brazenly split infinitives.

[blog.kontera.com image 300x180]

Wrong is it, very, brazen infinitives to split.

// English isn't German either.


It's germanic, but that's hardly germane.
 
2013-02-08 05:04:27 PM

brantgoose: Anybody remember the famous preposition-laden question asked by a fictional small child:

Why did you have to bring that book up about down under for?

Or words to that effect.

I believe it is often attributed to (Mr. or Sir) Winston Churchill, who is considered by many conservatives to be a master of plain English, and admired by them almost as much as Latinists admire Caesar's Gallic Commentaries although Caesar continually uses the third person when talking about himself through out several volumes of self-serving prose.



"What did you bring that book that I don't want to be read to from out of about "Down Under" up for?"

was attributed to a little boy whose name was not mentioned.  The sentence was once listed in the Guinness Book as the sentence with the most prepositions at the end, but they eventually realized that this was a stupid category and excluded it from later editions.

"This is the sort of English up with which I will not put" was the famous Churchill quote.
 
2013-02-08 05:05:25 PM

Diagonal: Stone Meadow: aerojockey: It is very wrong to brazenly split infinitives.

[blog.kontera.com image 300x180]

Wrong is it, very, brazen infinitives to split.

// English isn't German either.



Know who else wasn't German either?
 
2013-02-08 05:11:54 PM

FloydA: Diagonal: Stone Meadow: aerojockey: It is very wrong to brazenly split infinitives.

[blog.kontera.com image 300x180]

Wrong is it, very, brazen infinitives to split.

// English isn't German either.

Know who else wasn't German either?


And the circle of life is complete.
 
2013-02-08 05:30:16 PM

Jefferson Biatchmagnet: If the bus has uncountably many passengers then this is not necessarily possible. Suppose the hotel rooms are numbered with the positive integers, and the bus passengers are numbered with the reals, or even the real numbers between 0 and 1. Then no 1-1 correspondence exists between the two sets. See Cantor diagonal argument.


I'll bite.  How can there be an uncountable number of passengers?  Perhaps I am on the bus, and Julianna Rose Mauriello is on the bus, and a continuum of people who are some fraction between Juliana and me are on the bus.  I don't think I'd want to meet the person who is 75% Julianna and 25% me.  Gross.
 
2013-02-08 05:43:53 PM

aerojockey: Jefferson Biatchmagnet: If the bus has uncountably many passengers then this is not necessarily possible. Suppose the hotel rooms are numbered with the positive integers, and the bus passengers are numbered with the reals, or even the real numbers between 0 and 1. Then no 1-1 correspondence exists between the two sets. See Cantor diagonal argument.

I'll bite.  How can there be an uncountable number of passengers?  Perhaps I am on the bus, and Julianna Rose Mauriello is on the bus, and a continuum of people who are some fraction between Juliana and me are on the bus.  I don't think I'd want to meet the person who is 75% Julianna and 25% me.  Gross.


I think the crux is which is growing faster the number of seats or the number of passengers.  If the number of seats is faster then the number of passenger than they should be able to accept the inflow.
 
2013-02-08 06:10:51 PM

aerojockey: Jefferson Biatchmagnet: If the bus has uncountably many passengers then this is not necessarily possible. Suppose the hotel rooms are numbered with the positive integers, and the bus passengers are numbered with the reals, or even the real numbers between 0 and 1. Then no 1-1 correspondence exists between the two sets. See Cantor diagonal argument.

I'll bite.  How can there be an uncountable number of passengers?  Perhaps I am on the bus, and Julianna Rose Mauriello is on the bus, and a continuum of people who are some fraction between Juliana and me are on the bus.  I don't think I'd want to meet the person who is 75% Julianna and 25% me.  Gross.


Well, suppose you have an infinite number of buses, numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, ...  Also, each bus has an infinite number of passengers (but we won't bother to number those)

Now, suppose you wanted to transfer all of those people to boats, which can also hold an infinite number of passengers.   But... you decided to do make the transfer in an unusual way.  You want these to be awesome party boats, so you decide to load each boat with passengers from a different subset of the buses.   What do I mean by that?   Well, you would load up one boat with passengers from the set of buses {1 , 2}, and another boat with passengers from the set of buses {1, 3}, and another boat with passengers from the buses {1, 2, 3}, etc...

It turns out that if you decide to load up enough boats to have all the different possible combinations of buses represented, then you'll have so many boats that you won't be able to number them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...  You will have so many boats that you won't be able to count them all!

And that is how you create an uncountable number of boats.

// and no, that's not a joke.
/// although the english falls apart when you talk about it this way.
//// which makes sense, because the english falls apart almost any way you talk about it.
 
2013-02-08 06:34:02 PM

The Larch: aerojockey: Jefferson Biatchmagnet: If the bus has uncountably many passengers then this is not necessarily possible. Suppose the hotel rooms are numbered with the positive integers, and the bus passengers are numbered with the reals, or even the real numbers between 0 and 1. Then no 1-1 correspondence exists between the two sets. See Cantor diagonal argument.

I'll bite.  How can there be an uncountable number of passengers?  Perhaps I am on the bus, and Julianna Rose Mauriello is on the bus, and a continuum of people who are some fraction between Juliana and me are on the bus.  I don't think I'd want to meet the person who is 75% Julianna and 25% me.  Gross.

Well, suppose you have an infinite number of buses, numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, ...  Also, each bus has an infinite number of passengers (but we won't bother to number those)

Now, suppose you wanted to transfer all of those people to boats, which can also hold an infinite number of passengers.   But... you decided to do make the transfer in an unusual way.  You want these to be awesome party boats, so you decide to load each boat with passengers from a different subset of the buses.   What do I mean by that?   Well, you would load up one boat with passengers from the set of buses {1 , 2}, and another boat with passengers from the set of buses {1, 3}, and another boat with passengers from the buses {1, 2, 3}, etc...

It turns out that if you decide to load up enough boats to have all the different possible combinations of buses represented, then you'll have so many boats that you won't be able to number them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...  You will have so many boats that you won't be able to count them all!

And that is how you create an uncountable number of boats.

// and no, that's not a joke.
/// although the english falls apart when you talk about it this way.
//// which makes sense, because the english falls apart almost any way you talk about it.


There's something wrong with that argument. I think you're using each bus an uncountable number of times in that construction. I'm starting to get drunk; maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about it some more.
 
2013-02-08 06:46:27 PM

cgraves67: Anything that makes the written language more like the spoken language, I'm all for.


Never end a sentence with a preposition.

INCORRECT: Anything that makes the written language more like the spoken language, I'm all for.
CORRECT: Anything that makes the written language more like the spoken language, I'm all for, yo,
 
2013-02-08 06:52:32 PM

rumpelstiltskin: There's something wrong with that argument. I think you're using each bus an uncountable number of times in that construction. I'm starting to get drunk; maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about it some more.


Well, I didn't number the bus passengers for a reason...

I'm almost certain you can do it with a countable number of passengers on each bus (and thus use each bus a countable number of times), but I'm too lazy to check, and far too lazy to translate it into prose...
 
2013-02-08 06:58:33 PM

rumpelstiltskin: The Larch: aerojockey: Jefferson Biatchmagnet: If the bus has uncountably many passengers then this is not necessarily possible. Suppose the hotel rooms are numbered with the positive integers, and the bus passengers are numbered with the reals, or even the real numbers between 0 and 1. Then no 1-1 correspondence exists between the two sets. See Cantor diagonal argument.

I'll bite.  How can there be an uncountable number of passengers?  Perhaps I am on the bus, and Julianna Rose Mauriello is on the bus, and a continuum of people who are some fraction between Juliana and me are on the bus.  I don't think I'd want to meet the person who is 75% Julianna and 25% me.  Gross.

Well, suppose you have an infinite number of buses, numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, ...  Also, each bus has an infinite number of passengers (but we won't bother to number those)

Now, suppose you wanted to transfer all of those people to boats, which can also hold an infinite number of passengers.   But... you decided to do make the transfer in an unusual way.  You want these to be awesome party boats, so you decide to load each boat with passengers from a different subset of the buses.   What do I mean by that?   Well, you would load up one boat with passengers from the set of buses {1 , 2}, and another boat with passengers from the set of buses {1, 3}, and another boat with passengers from the buses {1, 2, 3}, etc...

It turns out that if you decide to load up enough boats to have all the different possible combinations of buses represented, then you'll have so many boats that you won't be able to number them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...  You will have so many boats that you won't be able to count them all!

And that is how you create an uncountable number of boats.

// and no, that's not a joke.
/// although the english falls apart when you talk about it this way.
//// which makes sense, because the english falls apart almost any way you talk about it.

There's something wrong with that argument. I think y ...


Yes, I'm sure there's something wrong there. The problem is, you're starting with infinity (assumed countable) busses, each of which has infinity (assumed countable)of  passengers, so you have a countable number of total passengers to start with. I can't see how to put them in an uncountable number of boats, with no boat remaining empty.
You're talking about the set of subsets of busses, but an individual bus is going to appear in an uncountable subset of the subsets of busses. Since the bus only has a countable set of passengers, that's impossible.
What we need to do to get an uncountable number of people without resorting to a "continuum of people", like aerojockey found distasteful, is to somehow characterize a person as an uncountable set of attributes. I find that distasteful, as I prefer to think of a "person" as a finite set of elementary components. But we're already talking about infinite numbers of people and busses that can hold them, so what the heck?
 
2013-02-08 08:18:03 PM

tricycleracer: 11/14 because I don't read so good.


I hear Derek Zoolander is building a school to address that issue.
 
2013-02-08 08:46:13 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: 14 out of 14 on the linked test. Thank you, Latin profs.


Heh, I forgot "gerund".
 
2013-02-08 10:12:34 PM
13/14...STEM major.
 
2013-02-09 12:29:05 AM
There's only one rule of grammar you need:

1. Don't sound like an idiot.
 
2013-02-09 12:38:07 AM
A preposition is a horrible thing to end a sentence on.
 
2013-02-09 01:29:06 AM

The Larch: It turns out that if you decide to load up enough boats to have all the different possible combinations of buses represented, then you'll have so many boats that you won't be able to number them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ... You will have so many boats that you won't be able to count them all!


Don't think so. The boats are still countable.

1. Take all combinations involving people from bus 1.
2. Take all combinations involving people from buses {1,2}.
3. Take all combinations involving people from buses {1,2,3}.
and so on

If you do that infinity times, you'll hit every possible combination of people from the buses, and since the number of combinations of a finite number of items is finite, and since you are observing a countable number of finite combinations, the number of boats is countable.

/IOW, factorial infinity = infinity
 
2013-02-09 03:16:44 AM
www.behindthevoiceactors.com
 I mean, that guy off in whose camper they were whacking...
 
2013-02-09 03:27:52 AM

doczoidberg: I got 12 out of 14, and I have an English degree.

I blame my professors!


I got the same, and I'm done leanred my words purdy goud.

Seriously, I've had virtually no formal training in grammar, just the basics. I learned what I do know, which is fair deal, simply from reading shaitloads of books. I intuit the english language, so while I can make my writing incredibly correct technically if I need to, I don't know the first thing about the technical rules of formal grammar. I only did as well as I did on the quiz was because I was able to derive the meanings of some of the terms they used contextually. I really don't have a farking clue what a gerund is, but I think I guessed that one correctly.

So, while that may be a shortfall in my education, my writing got rave reviews from professors in college, so I think I'm okay without it. And having read articles about how so many of the formal rules are so much bullshiat, I'm inclined to think that my way is better. Reading shiatloads of good writing will give you a sense of how to use words.

Actually, come to think of it, that way I learned this language may be a reason why I had so much trouble learning any other. Maybe I should grab a spanish version of Don Quixote and translate the thing myself. Sorry, completely random aside. I'm a little tipsy, if you can't tell. My writing usually gets somewhat choppy after a few drinks, and drifts off topic a little more.
 
2013-02-09 03:30:22 AM

brantgoose: Split infinitives--if it sounds weird, avoid it, if not, feel free to boldly go.There are languages that stuff important grammatical functions into the middle of words. As MAD magazine put it in their parody of A Crock of 'Blips Now, fan-farking-tastic! They used every--or nearly every-- form of the F-bomb in one sentence to parody the blue language of the movie. Then they doubled down.


I'm a fan of abso-posi-farking-lutely. I've googled it before, and for some reason it's not all that popular, which is a shame. It's a very good word.
 
2013-02-09 05:18:15 AM

Galloping Galoshes: DeltaPunch: Galloping Galoshes: If you're the hotel manager of an infinite hotel (a hotel with infinite rooms) which fortunately for business is completely full, and a weary traveler comes to your desk and asks for a room, can you give him one and if so how?

Yes, because ∞+1 = ∞.

Galloping Galoshes: If an infinite bus (a bus with an infinite number of passengers) pulls up unexpectedly, because the infinite hotel across the road shut down due to a sewer line break, can you accommodate the passengers and if so how?

Yes, because ∞+∞ = 2*∞ = ∞.

That's right, but how does he do it?


Number all the seats and tell everyone to only sit on even numbered seats, this leaves an infinite number of odd numbered seats and the extra passengers can sit on those.
 
2013-02-09 06:18:26 AM
To quote a master:"That is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put."Or, to differently phrase it, to knowingly put up with such nonsense would run afoul of a dictate from one of the great masters of the language in the 20th century, a man who was know to poorly advise in matters of amphibious assaults yet lead bravely from the helm of government.
 
2013-02-09 12:05:58 PM

cptjeff:  I really don't have a farking clue what a gerund is,


i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-09 01:16:44 PM
To boldly split an infitinite
 
2013-02-09 01:21:02 PM

Galloping Galoshes: If you're the hotel manager of an infinite hotel (a hotel with infinite rooms) which fortunately for business is completely full, and a weary traveler comes to your desk and asks for a room, can you give him one and if so how?


I`d say to the guy in room one "We have to move you so we are upgrading you to the penthouse. It`s on the top floor, last row, last door. It`s very nice. We will have your stuff taken up." and never see him again.

Saves having to move everybody just for one guy as well.
 
2013-02-09 02:12:08 PM

whistleridge: pivazena: Hey, 14/14 on the grammar quiz.  because it was a horribly designed quiz

14/14, terrible quiz. Truth and pride are awful examples of abstract and collective nouns.


This.  12/14 for that reason.
 
2013-02-09 02:17:14 PM

FloydA: cptjeff:  I really don't have a farking clue what a gerund is,

[i105.photobucket.com image 259x194]


Thing is, I'm serious. I guessed because -ing was the only suffix presented that would make a coherent class of words, and somebody using that joke (followed with an I see what you did there meme) upthread confirmed it for me, but I had only heard that word once or twice in my life, with no idea of what it meant, prior to this.
 
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