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(KSDK St. Louis)   Senior living community with $450K entrance fees and $98M in annual profit claims it doesn't owe any taxes of any kind -- because they're a non-profit   (ksdk.com) divider line 73
    More: Stupid, nonprofits, Board of Equalization, tax-exempt, check-the-box, home, Presbyterian, tax forms, St. Louis County  
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7053 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 8:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-08 01:11:12 AM
"If it acts like, looks like, walks like a for-profit organization, please pay your taxes," said Scott Stream, Kirkwood School Board President.
 
2013-02-08 01:31:03 AM
Sounds like a church.
 
2013-02-08 01:48:16 AM
Okay, I will be honest.
Many years ago, myself and pooter and deveyn came up with an idea to form a non profit entity to host the worlds biggest fark party, in las vegas. The reasons for wanting to do a non profit were many, but mostly due to the fact that we wanted the liquor / beer money to go to us, instead of outside vendors, so we could then funnel said money to real actual charities. I wont get into the nasty details as to why MY idea got shot down  and how you folks ended up with whatever the hell you did end up with as far as a world fark party, but my only goal was to have a great time and raise money for things that needed it. I was planning, and all involved agreed- we would only take so much as what it cost to run, plus time. I , myself, would have made about 3 grand.
That said- alleged non profits need to be better scrutinised, and this place is clearly trying to use the law to game the system.
 
2013-02-08 01:51:08 AM
www.myfacewhen.net
"Non-profits can be very profitable."
 
2013-02-08 02:30:46 AM
I have grown up and lived near retirement communities, I have, long ago, lost all respect for them. They want to be able to buy homes in certain areas and not pay taxes that would benefit things like schools and infrastructure for later generations. One of the claims they make is that they, "don't have children in public schools" therefore they shouldn't have to pay taxes that support local school districts. Even though, admittedly,  their children to not attend these schools yet their grandchildren do.
 
2013-02-08 04:45:27 AM

Hoban Washburne: Sounds like a church.


But the director admitted to the reporter it had no affiliation to the Presbyterian church.
 
2013-02-08 07:01:50 AM
I work for a Not-For-Profit organization, and no, they can't keep that kind of profit if they hope to retain their Not-For-Profit status. We have to reinvest the vast majority of any annual profit we might make into construction projects to expand the organization, give some away to charity, etc. We are only allowed to keep a small amount as a "rainy day"-type fund, to help in case of economic downturn.

If the Government sent auditors to look over this company's books, odds are their NFP status would be pulled in short order, assuming no back-room deals were made.
 
2013-02-08 07:26:09 AM

Speaker2Animals: Hoban Washburne: Sounds like a church.

But the director admitted to the reporter it had no affiliation to the Presbyterian church.


Plus, their "charitable activities" apparently consists of waving the fees to those who can't afford it, if they paid the $450,000 upfront.
 
2013-02-08 08:04:36 AM
Kirkwood. Nice town full of people biatching the schools do a terrible job of educating students.
 
2013-02-08 08:26:29 AM

Hoban Washburne: Sounds like a church.


0/10

Nice try
 
2013-02-08 08:31:05 AM
FTFH:  $98M in annual profit

FTFA:  generated revenues of $98,000,000 last year.

These words are not interchangeable.


/ unless you're the mob.
 
2013-02-08 08:31:30 AM
Somebody without children paid to educate your sorry ass, you can pay to educate someone else's kid.  That's how this 'society' thing works.
 
2013-02-08 08:31:38 AM
Doesn't it say 98 million revenue .....
 
2013-02-08 08:31:55 AM
Subby fail -- $98 million *in revenues* (FTFA) is not the same thing as $98 million in profits...

That's also a total number for the 18 retirement homes that are run by the same corporation, not the revenue from the facility being sued for property taxes.
 
2013-02-08 08:32:08 AM
That's 98mm in revenue, nitwitmitter. Not profit. And that revenue is not from the one facility mentioned. It comes from 17 facilities. But carry on with the hate. The truth is, Kirkwood wants them there, because of the jobs they provide and the money the wrinklies spend in the community. The schools are just trying to make a money grab. Maybe they'll win, maybe not. But that's all it is.
 
buz
2013-02-08 08:32:41 AM
The NFL is also a non-profit organization (look it up, I'll wait.) it just means that they have better attorneys than you do.
 
2013-02-08 08:33:07 AM
50 farking seconds...

/shakes slow, elderly fist at maxx
 
2013-02-08 08:34:28 AM
Ha, ha rumpelstiltskin

/points, laughs
 
2013-02-08 08:35:30 AM
Old people screaming "Oh, God" in their bedroom doesn't make it a place of worship.
 
2013-02-08 08:36:42 AM

MmmmBacon: I work for a Not-For-Profit organization, and no, they can't keep that kind of profit if they hope to retain their Not-For-Profit status. We have to reinvest the vast majority of any annual profit we might make into construction projects to expand the organization, give some away to charity, etc. We are only allowed to keep a small amount as a "rainy day"-type fund, to help in case of economic downturn.


Are the legal limits to how much cash you're allowed to keep within the organization to retain non-profit status?
 
2013-02-08 08:37:05 AM
No problem.  Set up a toll booth outside the gate.  Anyone wants to go in or out it's $500 per axle.

Cities are non-profits too.
 
2013-02-08 08:37:08 AM

netcentric: Doesn't it say 98 million revenue .....


It does.  But this is FARK.  And regardless of how many posts point out how badly subby failed, a good sized chunk of posters down the thread will go the rest of their lives believing that this outfit has $98 million in profits.
 
2013-02-08 08:37:39 AM

ObeliskToucher: Ha, ha rumpelstiltskin

/points, laughs


/Throws rock
 
2013-02-08 08:39:26 AM
It would be funny if claire mccaskills family had a hand in this.

not sure if it was her or her husband who made their fortune running nursing homes and raping the elderly
 
2013-02-08 08:40:36 AM
That is clearly a business, not a charity. Anyone not on the take can see that.
 
2013-02-08 08:42:48 AM
Believe it or not, there is still cost involved in running a non-profit.
 
2013-02-08 08:44:55 AM
Is this not America?  Is this not a business?  Are businesses not entitled to shield their lifeblood capital from the greedy paws of the communist tax man?

That's what Mitt Romney taught me -- taxing a business is like murdering a kitten with a dildo.

Don't murder a kitten with a dildo.
 
2013-02-08 08:45:28 AM

deanis: Believe it or not, there is still cost involved in running a non-profit.


So how much does landscaping, maintenance and staff salaries for a retirement community cost? 98 million?
 
2013-02-08 08:45:50 AM

deanis: Believe it or not, there is still cost involved in running a non-profit.


profit = revenue - operating costs

Unless the word is being misused ...
 
2013-02-08 08:46:55 AM

Philbb: I have grown up and lived near retirement communities, I have, long ago, lost all respect for them. They want to be able to buy homes in certain areas and not pay taxes that would benefit things like schools and infrastructure for later generations. One of the claims they make is that they, "don't have children in public schools" therefore they shouldn't have to pay taxes that support local school districts. Even though, admittedly,  their children to not attend these schools yet their grandchildren do.


On the other hand the school district will probably just waste the money (Like L.A.) on TV stations, multimillion dollar campuses and exorbitant 6 figure salaries for administrators and staff. None of which have done anything to improve student performance.

More power to anybody who legally avoids paying more taxes than they have to. Government has a spending problem not a lack of revenue problem.
 
2013-02-08 08:49:29 AM
This kind of nonsense needs to end.  It dilutes the true non-profits and religious organizations.
 
2013-02-08 08:49:42 AM

ObeliskToucher: Subby fail -- $98 million *in revenues* (FTFA) is not the same thing as $98 million in profits...

That's also a total number for the 18 retirement homes that are run by the same corporation, not the revenue from the facility being sued for property taxes.


No one is getting sued, calm down.
 
2013-02-08 08:50:03 AM
If they can still meet the filing requirements to be a non-profit, they are. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking advantage of every break you're given.
 
2013-02-08 08:52:24 AM
FARK the retirement community and their greasy administrators.  The original paperwork clearly stated they would pay taxes, and now they want out?  It's a whole different issue if this were a pre-construction proposal, but the place was approved and built based on their agreement to pay taxes.

If the city loses, I would go with an earlier poster's suggestion--just put a toll booth in front the main gate and charge $500 per axle.  And that would include food delivery trucks.
 
2013-02-08 08:52:51 AM
They'll be dead soon enough. So they'll still lose
 
2013-02-08 08:53:17 AM
Whether you're a non-profit or not has entirely to do with how you spend your revenues, and very little to do with the total number of dollars that goes through your doors.
 
2013-02-08 08:53:43 AM
FTFAPolzin said that line item may have said property taxes but that wasn't the intent. He explained, "there would have never been intent to pay taxes or property taxes....

I can believe that.  Regardless of what their documentation said, I darn well bet there was never any intention to pay their taxes.
 
2013-02-08 08:55:27 AM

NutWrench: deanis: Believe it or not, there is still cost involved in running a non-profit.

So how much does landscaping, maintenance and staff salaries for a retirement community cost? 98 million?


Like 10 other people have stated. Profit is not the same as revenue.
 
2013-02-08 08:55:39 AM
FTA:

On page 165 it states that it fully intended to pay property taxes and estimated taxes this year alone would be $935,000.

Polzin said that line item may have said property taxes but that wasn't the intent.


When we said we were going to pay taxes what we meant was we weren't going to pay taxes, now we've cleared that up we're good, right?
 
2013-02-08 08:57:09 AM
When the company first pitched the idea of Aberdeen Heights to the City of Kirkwood, it presented a 350 page document explaining why issuing bonds would be a great idea. On page 165 it states that it fully intended to pay property taxes and estimated taxes this year alone would be $935,000.


these guys are almost as bad as sports team owners looking for a new stadium to be built.
 
2013-02-08 08:57:59 AM
still sounds more appropriate than most other non-profits in this country
 
2013-02-08 09:01:10 AM
When asked why that [the intention to never pay taxes] wasn't explained in the official statement, Polzin, who wasn't employed at the facility at the time said, "I don't know."

Care to hazard a guess?
I'm thinking along the lines of "If we said that, we never would have got approval".
 
2013-02-08 09:02:32 AM
When the company first pitched the idea of Aberdeen Heights to the City of Kirkwood, it presented a 350 page document explaining why issuing bonds would be a great idea. On page 165 it states that it fully intended to pay property taxes and estimated taxes this year alone would be $935,000.

Polzin said that line item may have said property taxes but that wasn't the intent. He explained, "there would have never been intent to pay taxes or property taxes.... this is the money that we would budget in a feasibility study to cover any payment in lieu of taxes."


Well, which is it? "Fully intended" or "never intended?" You can't lie out of both orifices without imploding.
The city should sue to recover the taxes.
 
2013-02-08 09:06:03 AM

buz: The NFL is also a non-profit organization (look it up, I'll wait.) it just means that they have better attorneys than you do.


Actually it means they don't have shareholders that receive dividends from profits.   But, yes, it does mean that the attorneys have to do some legal wrangling.
 
2013-02-08 09:06:10 AM

natas6.0: still sounds more appropriate than most other non-profits in this country


And the "but wait, there are even bigger crooks around" defense somehow justifies this?
 
2013-02-08 09:14:25 AM
If you would like to leave nothing to your kids, we can help.
 
2013-02-08 09:17:00 AM
He added, if someone could no longer afford to pay monthly fees, its charitable mission would kick in.

Hey assholes, when someone pays half a farking millions dollars to even get in the door of your establishment, you're not running any sort of charity, so go fark yourselves.
 
2013-02-08 09:36:01 AM
Don't hate the player.   Hate the game.
 
2013-02-08 09:38:51 AM

ObeliskToucher: Subby fail -- $98 million *in revenues* (FTFA) is not the same thing as $98 million in profits...

That's also a total number for the 18 retirement homes that are run by the same corporation, not the revenue from the facility being sued for property taxes.


Yep, that was me.  My apologies for mixing it up.  :(

/the larger point still stands, imo
//these guys are just trying to cheat the system
 
2013-02-08 09:39:38 AM
Why is the govt. better off with this money than this private, charitable organization?
 
2013-02-08 09:43:56 AM

Warthog: Is this not America?  Is this not a business?  Are businesses not entitled to shield their lifeblood capital from the greedy paws of the communist tax man?

That's what Mitt Romney taught me -- taxing a business is like murdering a kitten with a dildo.

Don't murder a kitten with a dildo.


"An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy"  Daniel Webster

"That the power to tax involves the power to destroy [is] not to be denied "John Marshall

Effect of luxury tax on boats and planes for fiscal year 1991 (in millions of dollars):
Boats Planes Total
Tax-related jobs lost 7,600 1,470 9,070
Unemployment
benefit cost -$2.1 -$0.6 -$2.7
Income tax loss -$16.1 -$4.5 -$20.6
Luxury tax revenue +$3.0 +$1.0 +$4.0
Net loss -$15.2 -$4.1 -$19.3

total job loss by 1993-25,000
 
2013-02-08 09:54:39 AM
While it is stupid that a luxury place like this would be exempt from taxes the article is annoying in they way it shows the kids in the classroom and the luxury side.  I HATE one sided reporting.
 
2013-02-08 09:58:58 AM
Those poor middle class suburbanite white kids, won't anyone think of them??
 
2013-02-08 10:01:41 AM
I sent them a very nasty email - I urge all you other Farkers to do the same
 
2013-02-08 10:02:56 AM

alienated: Okay, I will be honest.
Many years ago, myself and pooter and deveyn came up with an idea to form a non profit entity to host the worlds biggest fark party, in las vegas. The reasons for wanting to do a non profit were many, but mostly due to the fact that we wanted the liquor / beer money to go to us, instead of outside vendors, so we could then funnel said money to real actual charities. I wont get into the nasty details as to why MY idea got shot down  and how you folks ended up with whatever the hell you did end up with as far as a world fark party, but my only goal was to have a great time and raise money for things that needed it. I was planning, and all involved agreed- we would only take so much as what it cost to run, plus time. I , myself, would have made about 3 grand.


i286.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-08 10:04:34 AM
I know we said in our business proposal that we were going to pay taxes, but what we meant was go fark yourself.
 
2013-02-08 10:21:42 AM

stonicus: I know we said in our business proposal that we were going to pay taxes, but what we meant was go fark yourself.

and thanks for paying for the construction

.
 
2013-02-08 10:23:55 AM
It doesn't really sound like a luxury place to me. The monthly fees are identical to the ones we pay for my father at a Lutheran place. His entrance fee was only 1/3 of that though. His place is nice but by no means extravagant. They also have a policy of never sending anyone away once they have entered.
 
2013-02-08 10:26:06 AM

Warthog: Is this not America?  Is this not a business?  Are businesses not entitled to shield their lifeblood capital from the greedy paws of the communist tax man?

That's what Mitt Romney taught me -- taxing a business is like murdering a kitten with a dildo.

Don't murder a kitten with a dildo.


If there was some decent pictures in here i wouldn't have to
 
2013-02-08 10:32:53 AM

not5am: stonicus: I know we said in our business proposal that we were going to pay taxes, but what we meant was go fark yourself.

and thanks for paying for the construction.


And for our salaries. I'm going to make a totally ridiculous and unfounded assumption that a substantial chunk of the 98 million dollar revenue is going to operating costs for "salaries and bonuses" for the top folks who run this "not for profit" business.
 
2013-02-08 11:07:05 AM
They put out $3.5m last year in charitable giving.
This newer facility has 1 person out of 300 that qualifies, estimates there will be more.
At $450,000 entrance fee and (let's say average) $4000 monthly fees.
They aren't accepting anybody that isn't banking $1mil+, along with with steady future revenue, coming in. I'm guessing they don't have many residents at any other facilities that qualify for charity.
Just because they give out a few bucks along the way shouldn't qualify them as tax-exempt non-profit.
 
2013-02-08 11:40:33 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: buz: The NFL is also a non-profit organization (look it up, I'll wait.) it just means that they have better attorneys than you do.

Actually it means they don't have shareholders that receive dividends from profits.   But, yes, it does mean that the attorneys have to do some legal wrangling.


The NFL is a non-profit. The independently owned TEAMS, on the other hand, are obviously for-profit entities.
 
2013-02-08 11:49:49 AM

Philbb: I have grown up and lived near retirement communities, I have, long ago, lost all respect for them. They want to be able to buy homes in certain areas and not pay taxes that would benefit things like schools and infrastructure for later generations. One of the claims they make is that they, "don't have children in public schools" therefore they shouldn't have to pay taxes that support local school districts. Even though, admittedly,  their children to not attend these schools yet their grandchildren do.


As have I.  fark retirement communities and the greedy, whiny bluehairs in them.
 
2013-02-08 12:19:45 PM

Warthog: Is this not America?  Is this not a business?  Are businesses not entitled to shield their lifeblood capital from the greedy paws of the communist tax man?

That's what Mitt Romney taught me -- taxing a business is like murdering a kitten with a dildo.

Don't murder a kitten with a dildo.


What about the kitten without a dildo?  Can we murder that one?
 
2013-02-08 01:17:42 PM

TheGreenMonkey: Don't murder a kitten with a dildo.

What about the kitten without a dildo?  Can we murder that one?


Farkers are NOTORIOUS kitten killers.
 
2013-02-08 01:49:59 PM
Non profit my ass.
 
2013-02-08 02:09:27 PM

NutWrench: Well, which is it? "Fully intended" or "never intended?" You can't lie out of both orifices without imploding.
The city should sue to recover the taxes.


Wouldn't that be fraud?  "I will do X, as stated in this proposal."  "I never meant X, I meant the opposite of X"  How is that not intent to defraud?
 
2013-02-08 02:30:44 PM

NutWrench: deanis: Believe it or not, there is still cost involved in running a non-profit.

So how much does landscaping, maintenance and staff salaries for a retirement community cost? 98 million?


18 communities...
 
2013-02-08 03:29:15 PM
"When the company first pitched the idea of Aberdeen Heights to the City of Kirkwood, it presented a 350 page document explaining why issuing bonds would be a great idea. On page 165 it states that it fully intended to pay property taxes and estimated taxes this year alone would be $935,000."

How any board or committee could grant their request after they stated they intended to pay property taxes in their initial proposal in beyond me. You said you would. You lost. It's over. Write the check.
 
2013-02-08 08:40:28 PM

hasty ambush: Warthog: Is this not America?  Is this not a business?  Are businesses not entitled to shield their lifeblood capital from the greedy paws of the communist tax man?

That's what Mitt Romney taught me -- taxing a business is like murdering a kitten with a dildo.

Don't murder a kitten with a dildo.

"An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy"  Daniel Webster

"That the power to tax involves the power to destroy [is] not to be denied "John Marshall

Effect of luxury tax on boats and planes for fiscal year 1991 (in millions of dollars):
Boats Planes Total
Tax-related jobs lost 7,600 1,470 9,070
Unemployment
benefit cost -$2.1 -$0.6 -$2.7
Income tax loss -$16.1 -$4.5 -$20.6
Luxury tax revenue +$3.0 +$1.0 +$4.0
Net loss -$15.2 -$4.1 -$19.3

total job loss by 1993-25,000


not trolling, just interested in where these figures are from?
 
2013-02-08 08:47:57 PM
the Greatest Generation.

"I got mine, biatches!"
 
2013-02-08 11:41:17 PM
How much you wanna bet these old bastards are collecting social security and sucking up Medicare funds.
 
2013-02-09 05:07:53 AM
but what filesystem are they using?  ext2??
 
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