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(AZ Family)   Even though the poor plants stand there silently with their arms up, people still go out into the Arizona desert and use saguaro cacti for target practice   (azfamily.com) divider line 27
    More: Sad, Tonto National Forest, United States National Forest, tonto, Fish Department, Arizona, shooter game, target practice, injury  
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4431 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 8:49 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-08 09:01:45 AM  
2 votes:

Egoy3k: AverageAmericanGuy: The complaints of this couple sound like the complaints of people who buy a home near the airport.

except for this little bit of info:

Lynn and George Martin are third generation ranchers near the town of Superior, east of the Valley.


Well, that and its not illegal for planes to take off and land at an airport.

This is why laws, regulations, and restrictions are put in place. People are assholes.
2013-02-08 01:09:26 AM  
2 votes:
A few years back, one of them cactii got shot and fell on the shooter, killing him.  It's a slow, but real, process.
2013-02-08 12:00:59 PM  
1 votes:

ciberido: No, I'm done with you.  The homophobia, the racism, the blame-the-victim crap when commenting on rape and other crimes, the Objectivist derp, the general belligerence and insults: it's all a pattern.  Either you're a troll or there's something fundamentally broke inside you.  I don't think I'll be reading any more of your FARKING POSTS.


What does objectivism have to do with this? The entire basis of the philsophy is don't be an asshole to others.  It is just that 90% of those who call themselves Objectivists have no grasp of ethics - and hence are assholes. There are assholes to be found among all groups of people with all kinds of political or philosophical viewpoint. The big picture here are assholes, and how to prevent them from shiatting all over everything they see.
2013-02-08 11:44:05 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

Because people are less valuable than a plant.


Some people are less valuable than a plant.
2013-02-08 11:33:41 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: willfullyobscure: safety isnt the issue. turning a formerly pristine part of a NATIONAL PARK into a garbage dump is. I've seen sand pits in AZ that were so polluted with lead they were hazardous and so much trash, literal trash, that they look like a junkyard. and that's MY land, you shiatbirds. Yours too. Once again, people like this are a big part of the reason they want to take your guns away and I honestly can't say I'm sorry about it.

What part of "Police up your brass and targets" didn't you understand?


The part where i can't drive 5 miles into the Superstitions without having to look at giant piles of waste and trash and dying 100 year old cacti and contaminated soil thanks to "responsible gun owners". I have no problem with your prescriptions, friend.Everything you post seems to be indicate you are a smart, sensible and responsible firearms enthusiast. However,  I have a problem with the reality that ignorant, stupid, irresponsible shooters leave behind. Apparently your message hasn't reached them yet.
2013-02-08 11:29:01 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?


Have fun explaining that one to the judge when you get cited. Saguaro are protected, you can't even remove one from your own property without filling out the correct paperwork. They grow nowhere in the US except in a relatively small section of Az.
2013-02-08 10:30:30 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: Or, you know, you can continue to be blinded by rage over something stupid and continue to be part of the problem.


Well you did come in here "guns blazing" as it were to push your viewpoint without reading the article. Like I said, you seem to be one of the more reasonable ones. You should try to represent your side rationally and intelligently if you want to garner respect and help people meet you in the middle ground.

Even if the cacti weren't endangered I still think it's pretty crappy to go shooting up plants for no reason... especially in an area where there is so little plant life. Cacti are little micro eco systems out there in the desert. You aren't just killing the plant when you blast it into oblivion. Not to mention it ruins the scenery. I've never been to the american deserts but they've always looked quite beautiful to me. I'd be sorely disappointed if I went out there to soak it all in only to show up and have it at f*cked up because some guys were too cheap/lazy/selfish to go to a range/set up their own targets/clean up after themselves.
2013-02-08 10:26:15 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Someone *IS* using a cannon:

[media.azfamily.com image 600x338]

However, it doesn't sound like he's being unsafe about it:

Believe it or not, Dale Shoemaker even brought his homemade cannon there to fire off rounds.

He said he came to the Tonto because he can't shoot a cannon in his own neighborhood.

From the looks of it, there seems to be enough areas that make effective backstops (see the hill in the background?) so it's probably not a safety issue either.  This picture seems to confirm that:

[media.azfamily.com image 600x338]

That looks like an extremely safe place to shoot.

Cleaning up after yourself, and trying not to damage the cacti would be a good thing, but from a safety standpoint?  Meh.

/Police up your brass and targets.


safety isnt the issue. turning a formerly pristine part of a NATIONAL PARK into a garbage dump is. I've seen sand pits in AZ that were so polluted with lead they were hazardous and so much trash, literal trash, that they look like a junkyard. and that's MY land, you shiatbirds. Yours too. Once again, people like this are a big part of the reason they want to take your guns away and I honestly can't say I'm sorry about it.
2013-02-08 10:22:09 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: ciberido: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Because it kills the cactus, you farking idiot.

If  you're a responsible shooter you don't go around shooting cacti.

If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

ONCE AGAIN, GO BACK AND READ MY FARKING POSTS.

Now, get back to me when you've done that, sparky.


No, I'm done with you.  The homophobia, the racism, the blame-the-victim crap when commenting on rape and other crimes, the Objectivist derp, the general belligerence and insults: it's all a pattern.  Either you're a troll or there's something fundamentally broke inside you.  I don't think I'll be reading any more of your FARKING POSTS.
2013-02-08 10:18:20 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

Because people are less valuable than a plant.


People who shoot cacti are.
2013-02-08 10:09:23 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?


Because it kills the cactus, you farking idiot.

If  you're a responsible shooter you don't go around shooting cacti.

If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.
2013-02-08 10:05:33 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: vudukungfu: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Really?
0/10

Yes, really. Honestly. I'm sorry, but I don't see what the hell the problem is. Granted, it's nicer to the environment to put up a target on a man-made stand than to just shoot at the shrubbery, but...it's a plant.


they're endangered, you cocksucker. They exist nowhere else in the world, the serve an important purpose in the local ecology, and you're killing them for literally no food reason.. too boot, any one big enough to shoot at is older than your entire worthless family tree, you peice of shiat. police your range, put your lead somewhere responsible pick up your shiat and DONT SHOOT AT CACTI. I hate you farking assholes so much. I always call you out when i catch you but there's too many of you inbred, worthless, dangerous farksticks around to stop. You are your own best argument for gun control.
2013-02-08 09:57:13 AM  
1 votes:
farking sandbillies. their own best argument for gun control. I hate these assholes so goddamn much
2013-02-08 09:51:23 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: Ah, okay, yeah, don't shoot close to someone's house. That's a dick move.

But "destroying nature" is kind of a chicken littleism, isn't it? We don't "destroy nature".


Well I'm glad you haven't gone off the deep end as you are one of the more rational ones. As far as shooting up the cacti they are part of the local eco system and really a shot up cactus isn't nearly as pretty as one that's intact. If they want to go out and shoot that's fine by me but get away from peoples property, bring your own targets and then clean up your mess after you're done. That seems to be all these people are asking for and I think that is perfectly reasonable.

Cheers.
2013-02-08 09:47:57 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: Within 1500 yards, you should be able to spot people that are down-range and stop shooting, as is part of the rules of knowing your target and what is beyond.


And you trust the mouth breathers who drag appliances out into the middle of the desert to shoot them and them leave them to rust to have the respect and common sense to make sure they aren't gonna send a bullet flying through someone's window? These ranchers seem to think these people are shooting close enough to their property to be concerned about it. I'd say their right to enjoy their land in peace trumps the right of the clowns turning the area into a dump. They should go to a range or go further out into the desert. They also shouldn't leave their damned garbage laying around.
2013-02-08 09:42:20 AM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?


Did you read the article? That's not what is happening here and shooting indiscriminately close to someones home doesn't sound very responsible to me. In fact it sounds downright dangerous. Are you implying that the rights of the property owners who have lived there for generations is outweighed by Bubba and the boys getting their rocks of and destroying the natural landscape?

This is where the pro gun side of the debate veers off the path of rationality. Your right to play with your boomsticks in no way justifies destroying nature and negatively impacting the lives others. You want guns? Fine. Don't be an asshole about it.
2013-02-08 09:35:55 AM  
1 votes:

edmo: I lived there a long time and found that Arizona shooters seem to be a lower life form. They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere. The desert feels like a big trash pit to them so they treat it that way.

I  just don't see that here in the Midwest. People are a lot better about picking up after themselves and preserving nature.


I think that comes from the fact that it's legal to shoot in the open desert (not on national forest land) - which leaves great tracts of open land on which to shoot.  People seem to feel that it's a big desert and their crap really doesn't matter.
2013-02-08 09:32:49 AM  
1 votes:

stuhayes2010: Assholes.  Use metal targets, they give a satisfying "ding" when hit and don't take 100 years to grow.


And pack out your shells and trash. And those biodegradable clay pigeons still take years to degrade, clean them up. I always end up packing out other peoples trash and it pisses me off.
2013-02-08 09:28:25 AM  
1 votes:

vudukungfu: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Really?
0/10


Ok, I'll reply to the troll. Shooting anything endangered is an asshole move, other people want to see it too, and everyone else would prefer you shoot yourself, as you aren't endangered; the world is full of dicks. Secondly a bullet fired into a cactus is unlikely to stay in the cactus, assuming you even hit the cactus, so yeah it's hardly not dangerous. To others. (Again, feel free to hurt yourself at will)
2013-02-08 09:18:11 AM  
1 votes:
Assholes.  Use metal targets, they give a satisfying "ding" when hit and don't take 100 years to grow.
2013-02-08 09:14:46 AM  
1 votes:
OMG, those poor cacti! This just pushes them that much closer to extinction. There are hardly any left.

www.planetware.com
2013-02-08 08:59:18 AM  
1 votes:
videogamecritic.com
2013-02-08 08:57:07 AM  
1 votes:
Arizona ... the other Florida
2013-02-08 08:57:04 AM  
1 votes:
The NRA wants you to know if the cacti had guns, these sorts of shenanigans would never occur.

Amused at the idea that some Arizona nimrod drags his cannon out there and blasts away a bunch of cacti and scorpions.  Whatta manly man!
2013-02-08 08:54:37 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: The complaints of this couple sound like the complaints of people who buy a home near the airport.


except for this little bit of info:

Lynn and George Martin are third generation ranchers near the town of Superior, east of the Valley.
2013-02-08 02:55:57 AM  
1 votes:

Atypical Person Reading Fark: A few years back, one of them cactii got shot and fell on the shooter, killing him.  It's a slow, but real, process.


That would be David Grundman
2013-02-08 01:26:16 AM  
1 votes:
i798.photobucket.com
There are assholes out there.. In this case I guess shooting the sign is acknowledging that you read it.
 
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