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(AZ Family)   Even though the poor plants stand there silently with their arms up, people still go out into the Arizona desert and use saguaro cacti for target practice   (azfamily.com) divider line 120
    More: Sad, Tonto National Forest, United States National Forest, tonto, Fish Department, Arizona, shooter game, target practice, injury  
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4416 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 8:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



120 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-02-08 01:09:26 AM
A few years back, one of them cactii got shot and fell on the shooter, killing him.  It's a slow, but real, process.
 
2013-02-08 01:26:16 AM
i798.photobucket.com
There are assholes out there.. In this case I guess shooting the sign is acknowledging that you read it.
 
2013-02-08 02:55:57 AM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: A few years back, one of them cactii got shot and fell on the shooter, killing him.  It's a slow, but real, process.


That would be David Grundman
 
2013-02-08 07:56:41 AM
"Why are you shooting him?? He's trying to surrender!"
 
2013-02-08 07:57:48 AM
I lived there a long time and found that Arizona shooters seem to be a lower life form. They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere. The desert feels like a big trash pit to them so they treat it that way.

I  just don't see that here in the Midwest. People are a lot better about picking up after themselves and preserving nature.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2013-02-08 08:08:00 AM

edmo: They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere.


They're being very cool to future anthropologists, though.
 
2013-02-08 08:15:41 AM

SmackLT: "Why are you shooting him?? He's trying to surrender!"


www.patriotresource.com

Maybe.  Now we will never know.
\
 
2013-02-08 08:18:12 AM
www.patriotresource.com

I say we shoot the cactus, drink the wine, and use the papers for musket wadding.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2013-02-08 08:20:29 AM
Who went out there and spooked all those cacti in the first place?
 
2013-02-08 08:51:33 AM
The complaints of this couple sound like the complaints of people who buy a home near the airport.
 
2013-02-08 08:54:37 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: The complaints of this couple sound like the complaints of people who buy a home near the airport.


except for this little bit of info:

Lynn and George Martin are third generation ranchers near the town of Superior, east of the Valley.
 
2013-02-08 08:57:04 AM
The NRA wants you to know if the cacti had guns, these sorts of shenanigans would never occur.

Amused at the idea that some Arizona nimrod drags his cannon out there and blasts away a bunch of cacti and scorpions.  Whatta manly man!
 
2013-02-08 08:57:07 AM
Arizona ... the other Florida
 
2013-02-08 08:58:02 AM
Road trip!
 
2013-02-08 08:59:18 AM
videogamecritic.com
 
2013-02-08 08:59:55 AM
Dipsticks.
May they step on a sidewinder.
 
2013-02-08 09:00:13 AM
Why don't the cactii just go hide on page 10?
 
2013-02-08 09:00:49 AM
Lazy and rude target practice shooters are one of my pet peaves, too.  Could it be we need to arm the illegal river-swimmers and hire them to be the politeness police?  It could be win-win all around.
 
2013-02-08 09:01:45 AM

Egoy3k: AverageAmericanGuy: The complaints of this couple sound like the complaints of people who buy a home near the airport.

except for this little bit of info:

Lynn and George Martin are third generation ranchers near the town of Superior, east of the Valley.


Well, that and its not illegal for planes to take off and land at an airport.

This is why laws, regulations, and restrictions are put in place. People are assholes.
 
2013-02-08 09:06:16 AM

Philbb: Atypical Person Reading Fark: A few years back, one of them cactii got shot and fell on the shooter, killing him.  It's a slow, but real, process.

That would be David Grundman


They say that his last words were "Timmberrrrr...."
 
2013-02-08 09:06:42 AM
So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?
 
2013-02-08 09:07:25 AM
images4.wikia.nocookie.net

Little bastards deserve it.
 
2013-02-08 09:08:51 AM

Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?


Really?
0/10
 
2013-02-08 09:09:55 AM

433: Who went out there and spooked all those cacti in the first place?


I know, right? I saw a bunch of cacti stampede once. Not a pretty sight, my friend.
 
2013-02-08 09:10:39 AM

Prey4reign: The NRA wants you to know if the cacti had guns, these sorts of shenanigans would never occur.

Amused at the idea that some Arizona nimrod drags his cannon out there and blasts away a bunch of cacti and scorpions.  Whatta manly man!


If they used a cannon, the cacti wouldn't still be standing.  Trust me, I know what a cannon can do.  I own and shoot one.
 
2013-02-08 09:11:15 AM

Click Click D'oh: [images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 360x405]

Little bastards deserve it.


Swastika pickle.
 
2013-02-08 09:14:46 AM
OMG, those poor cacti! This just pushes them that much closer to extinction. There are hardly any left.

www.planetware.com
 
2013-02-08 09:16:21 AM

Click Click D'oh: [images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 360x405]

Little bastards deserve it.


they were great if you had an esper equipped.
/thank you for reminding me of what an uber-virgin i was when i was a teenager. i pray they re-make this game
 
2013-02-08 09:18:11 AM
Assholes.  Use metal targets, they give a satisfying "ding" when hit and don't take 100 years to grow.
 
2013-02-08 09:20:15 AM

edmo: I lived there a long time and found that Arizona shooters seem to be a lower life form. They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere. The desert feels like a big trash pit to them so they treat it that way.

I  just don't see that here in the Midwest. People are a lot better about picking up after themselves and preserving nature.


thats just because the midwesterners eat everything in sight and dont leave trash.
 
2013-02-08 09:20:36 AM
FTFA: TONTO NATIONAL FOREST, Ariz

www.bluecorncomics.com

Frowns on your shenanigans.

/Seriously?  Tonto National Forest?  That's racist.
 
2013-02-08 09:21:56 AM

dittybopper: Prey4reign: The NRA wants you to know if the cacti had guns, these sorts of shenanigans would never occur.

Amused at the idea that some Arizona nimrod drags his cannon out there and blasts away a bunch of cacti and scorpions.  Whatta manly man!

If they used a cannon, the cacti wouldn't still be standing.  Trust me, I know what a cannon can do.  I own and shoot one.


13 Bravo 40
 
2013-02-08 09:25:12 AM
I've also got a pet peeve with shooters leaving crap everywhere. They even leave targets stapled to the trees. But there is an up side to the economic depression: everyone now picks up their brass.

/brass patrol!
 
2013-02-08 09:28:25 AM

vudukungfu: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Really?
0/10


Ok, I'll reply to the troll. Shooting anything endangered is an asshole move, other people want to see it too, and everyone else would prefer you shoot yourself, as you aren't endangered; the world is full of dicks. Secondly a bullet fired into a cactus is unlikely to stay in the cactus, assuming you even hit the cactus, so yeah it's hardly not dangerous. To others. (Again, feel free to hurt yourself at will)
 
2013-02-08 09:32:49 AM

stuhayes2010: Assholes.  Use metal targets, they give a satisfying "ding" when hit and don't take 100 years to grow.


And pack out your shells and trash. And those biodegradable clay pigeons still take years to degrade, clean them up. I always end up packing out other peoples trash and it pisses me off.
 
2013-02-08 09:33:52 AM

dittybopper: Prey4reign: The NRA wants you to know if the cacti had guns, these sorts of shenanigans would never occur.

Amused at the idea that some Arizona nimrod drags his cannon out there and blasts away a bunch of cacti and scorpions.  Whatta manly man!

If they used a cannon, the cacti wouldn't still be standing.  Trust me, I know what a cannon can do.  I own and shoot one.


Do you search around the Internet and say "here's a thread that's gun related! I can mention my cannon!"

That sounds like a criticism, but it is not. I'm just saying that if I had a cannon, that's what I would do.
 
2013-02-08 09:35:31 AM
unavailable for comment:

lh4.googleusercontent.com

/hot
 
2013-02-08 09:35:55 AM

edmo: I lived there a long time and found that Arizona shooters seem to be a lower life form. They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere. The desert feels like a big trash pit to them so they treat it that way.

I  just don't see that here in the Midwest. People are a lot better about picking up after themselves and preserving nature.


I think that comes from the fact that it's legal to shoot in the open desert (not on national forest land) - which leaves great tracts of open land on which to shoot.  People seem to feel that it's a big desert and their crap really doesn't matter.
 
2013-02-08 09:37:12 AM

vudukungfu: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Really?
0/10


Yes, really. Honestly. I'm sorry, but I don't see what the hell the problem is. Granted, it's nicer to the environment to put up a target on a man-made stand than to just shoot at the shrubbery, but...it's a plant.
 
2013-02-08 09:42:20 AM

Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?


Did you read the article? That's not what is happening here and shooting indiscriminately close to someones home doesn't sound very responsible to me. In fact it sounds downright dangerous. Are you implying that the rights of the property owners who have lived there for generations is outweighed by Bubba and the boys getting their rocks of and destroying the natural landscape?

This is where the pro gun side of the debate veers off the path of rationality. Your right to play with your boomsticks in no way justifies destroying nature and negatively impacting the lives others. You want guns? Fine. Don't be an asshole about it.
 
2013-02-08 09:42:48 AM

Alex Broughton Butt Chugger: vudukungfu: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Really?
0/10

Ok, I'll reply to the troll. Shooting anything endangered is an asshole move, other people want to see it too, and everyone else would prefer you shoot yourself, as you aren't endangered; the world is full of dicks. Secondly a bullet fired into a cactus is unlikely to stay in the cactus, assuming you even hit the cactus, so yeah it's hardly not dangerous. To others. (Again, feel free to hurt yourself at will)


Alright, I'll give you the endangered part (i'm sorry, I didn't know that cacti were endangered).

However, if you're out away from civilization, and over 1500 yards from anyone, the bullet's not going to go far enough to hurt anyone that's out there. Within 1500 yards, you should be able to spot people that are down-range and stop shooting, as is part of the rules of knowing your target and what is beyond.

In Colorado, we would go out into the Pawnee national grasslands, miles away from anyone, and shoot a lot. There were only so many access points, so it wasn't easy to get in front of other active shooters.
 
2013-02-08 09:44:03 AM

here to help: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Did you read the article? That's not what is happening here and shooting indiscriminately close to someones home doesn't sound very responsible to me. In fact it sounds downright dangerous. Are you implying that the rights of the property owners who have lived there for generations is outweighed by Bubba and the boys getting their rocks of and destroying the natural landscape?

This is where the pro gun side of the debate veers off the path of rationality. Your right to play with your boomsticks in no way justifies destroying nature and negatively impacting the lives others. You want guns? Fine. Don't be an asshole about it.


Ah, okay, yeah, don't shoot close to someone's house.  That's a dick move.

But "destroying nature" is kind of a chicken littleism, isn't it? We don't "destroy nature".
 
2013-02-08 09:44:10 AM

walkerhound: FTFA: TONTO NATIONAL FOREST, Ariz


www.bluecorncomics.comencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
When did Tonto join the Stones?
 
2013-02-08 09:47:57 AM

Kit Fister: Within 1500 yards, you should be able to spot people that are down-range and stop shooting, as is part of the rules of knowing your target and what is beyond.


And you trust the mouth breathers who drag appliances out into the middle of the desert to shoot them and them leave them to rust to have the respect and common sense to make sure they aren't gonna send a bullet flying through someone's window? These ranchers seem to think these people are shooting close enough to their property to be concerned about it. I'd say their right to enjoy their land in peace trumps the right of the clowns turning the area into a dump. They should go to a range or go further out into the desert. They also shouldn't leave their damned garbage laying around.
 
2013-02-08 09:51:23 AM

Kit Fister: Ah, okay, yeah, don't shoot close to someone's house. That's a dick move.

But "destroying nature" is kind of a chicken littleism, isn't it? We don't "destroy nature".


Well I'm glad you haven't gone off the deep end as you are one of the more rational ones. As far as shooting up the cacti they are part of the local eco system and really a shot up cactus isn't nearly as pretty as one that's intact. If they want to go out and shoot that's fine by me but get away from peoples property, bring your own targets and then clean up your mess after you're done. That seems to be all these people are asking for and I think that is perfectly reasonable.

Cheers.
 
2013-02-08 09:53:40 AM

Alex Broughton Butt Chugger: Secondly a bullet fired into a cactus is unlikely to stay in the cactus


Or likely to hit something living in it. And will leave lead for those that eat it. etc etc.
If you want to shoot a living thing, as ABBC says, shoot yourself.
Please.

*buys ABBC a beer*
 
2013-02-08 09:55:30 AM

here to help: You want guns? Fine. Don't be an asshole about it.


It's just like sex and religion.
Also, don't bring it up at the dinner table.
 
2013-02-08 09:57:13 AM
farking sandbillies. their own best argument for gun control. I hate these assholes so goddamn much
 
2013-02-08 10:00:09 AM

MonkeyDavid: dittybopper: Prey4reign: The NRA wants you to know if the cacti had guns, these sorts of shenanigans would never occur.

Amused at the idea that some Arizona nimrod drags his cannon out there and blasts away a bunch of cacti and scorpions.  Whatta manly man!

If they used a cannon, the cacti wouldn't still be standing.  Trust me, I know what a cannon can do.  I own and shoot one.

Do you search around the Internet and say "here's a thread that's gun related! I can mention my cannon!"

That sounds like a criticism, but it is not. I'm just saying that if I had a cannon, that's what I would do.


Could be worse.  I could have posted a picture.
 
2013-02-08 10:01:28 AM

vudukungfu: Alex Broughton Butt Chugger: Secondly a bullet fired into a cactus is unlikely to stay in the cactus

Or likely to hit something living in it. And will leave lead for those that eat it. etc etc.
If you want to shoot a living thing, as ABBC says, shoot yourself.
Please.

*buys ABBC a beer*


Funny thing, hunters do more for the ecosystem by providing population control and supporting conservation efforts.

I agree, don't shoot at the cactus if you have a target stand. But the amount of lead that's left behind from incidental shooting isn't enough that suddenly birds and animals are going to be gobbling it up left and right, so as to induce a biohazard with lead levels.
 
2013-02-08 10:02:41 AM

edmo: I lived there a long time and found that Arizona shooters seem to be a lower life form. They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere. The desert feels like a big trash pit to them so they treat it that way.

I  just don't see that here in the Midwest. People are a lot better about picking up after themselves and preserving nature.


75% of the people in az are from the Midwest. They must leave their manners at home.
 
2013-02-08 10:03:14 AM

willfullyobscure: farking sandbillies. their own best argument for gun control. I hate these assholes so goddamn much


Because they shoot guns, or because they're retarded and shoot too close to someone's dwelling and drag their trash out into the environment, spoiling it for everyone?

If for the latter, I concur. If for the former, fark you.
 
2013-02-08 10:03:30 AM

vudukungfu: here to help: You want guns? Fine. Don't be an asshole about it.

It's just like sex and religion.
Also, don't bring it up at the dinner table.


Exactly. I'm getting pretty damned sick of the extremists and assholes in this world controlling every nuance of life with their squeaking, moaning and temper tantrums. I say ban sh*t talking, self serving lunatics. Maybe the rest of us can fix what's left of humanity after that happens.

And anyone who's visited my profile may have seen the "Radical Moderate" quip. That's meant to be humorous but it's also truthful. Sketchy loud mouthed assholes need to sit the f*ck down and have some quiet time. Bunch of children.
 
2013-02-08 10:03:49 AM

johnny queso: edmo: I lived there a long time and found that Arizona shooters seem to be a lower life form. They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere. The desert feels like a big trash pit to them so they treat it that way.

I  just don't see that here in the Midwest. People are a lot better about picking up after themselves and preserving nature.

75% of the people in az are from the Midwest. They must leave their manners at home.


No, we just kicked them out.
 
2013-02-08 10:05:33 AM

Kit Fister: vudukungfu: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Really?
0/10

Yes, really. Honestly. I'm sorry, but I don't see what the hell the problem is. Granted, it's nicer to the environment to put up a target on a man-made stand than to just shoot at the shrubbery, but...it's a plant.


they're endangered, you cocksucker. They exist nowhere else in the world, the serve an important purpose in the local ecology, and you're killing them for literally no food reason.. too boot, any one big enough to shoot at is older than your entire worthless family tree, you peice of shiat. police your range, put your lead somewhere responsible pick up your shiat and DONT SHOOT AT CACTI. I hate you farking assholes so much. I always call you out when i catch you but there's too many of you inbred, worthless, dangerous farksticks around to stop. You are your own best argument for gun control.
 
2013-02-08 10:09:19 AM
Someone *IS* using a cannon:

media.azfamily.com

However, it doesn't sound like he's being unsafe about it:

Believe it or not, Dale Shoemaker even brought his homemade cannon there to fire off rounds.

He said he came to the Tonto because he can't shoot a cannon in his own neighborhood.


From the looks of it, there seems to be enough areas that make effective backstops (see the hill in the background?) so it's probably not a safety issue either.  This picture seems to confirm that:

media.azfamily.com

That looks like an extremely safe place to shoot.

Cleaning up after yourself, and trying not to damage the cacti would be a good thing, but from a safety standpoint?  Meh.

/Police up your brass and targets.
 
2013-02-08 10:09:23 AM

Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?


Because it kills the cactus, you farking idiot.

If  you're a responsible shooter you don't go around shooting cacti.

If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.
 
2013-02-08 10:11:04 AM

ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.


Because people are less valuable than a plant.
 
2013-02-08 10:11:55 AM

willfullyobscure: Kit Fister: vudukungfu: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Really?
0/10

Yes, really. Honestly. I'm sorry, but I don't see what the hell the problem is. Granted, it's nicer to the environment to put up a target on a man-made stand than to just shoot at the shrubbery, but...it's a plant.

they're endangered, you cocksucker. They exist nowhere else in the world, the serve an important purpose in the local ecology, and you're killing them for literally no food reason.. too boot, any one big enough to shoot at is older than your entire worthless family tree, you peice of shiat. police your range, put your lead somewhere responsible pick up your shiat and DONT SHOOT AT CACTI. I hate you farking assholes so much. I always call you out when i catch you but there's too many of you inbred, worthless, dangerous farksticks around to stop. You are your own best argument for gun control.


Wow. You know so much about me already, and apparently missed most of my posts. I didn't know about the cacti being endangered, etc. ANd I actually farking agree with you you worthless, arrogant, stuck-up nose breather. If you can deign to correct your rectal-cranial insertion disorder long enough, maybe you can grok the fact that we agree and are on the same side, generally.

Or, you know, you can continue to be blinded by rage over something stupid and continue to be part of the problem.
 
2013-02-08 10:14:34 AM

dittybopper: Someone *IS* using a cannon:

[media.azfamily.com image 600x338]

However, it doesn't sound like he's being unsafe about it:

Believe it or not, Dale Shoemaker even brought his homemade cannon there to fire off rounds.

He said he came to the Tonto because he can't shoot a cannon in his own neighborhood.

From the looks of it, there seems to be enough areas that make effective backstops (see the hill in the background?) so it's probably not a safety issue either.  This picture seems to confirm that:

[media.azfamily.com image 600x338]

That looks like an extremely safe place to shoot.

Cleaning up after yourself, and trying not to damage the cacti would be a good thing, but from a safety standpoint?  Meh.

/Police up your brass and targets.


This. In colorado they solve the problem by having county jail work crews come in and clean up the ranges and open-space shooting areas once a month. Gets the prisoners out, and does the environment some good.
 
2013-02-08 10:15:26 AM

ciberido: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Because it kills the cactus, you farking idiot.

If  you're a responsible shooter you don't go around shooting cacti.

If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.


ONCE AGAIN, GO BACK AND READ MY FARKING POSTS.

Now, get back to me when you've done that, sparky.
 
2013-02-08 10:18:20 AM

dittybopper: ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

Because people are less valuable than a plant.


People who shoot cacti are.
 
2013-02-08 10:18:38 AM
Really? Innocent? Poor? Just standing there with their arms up? Are we talking about the same singular, eldritch horrors that have emerged from that desiccated, stygian desert for who knows what terrible purpose? Whose mere visage causes the failure of a man's mental faculties and leaves him a gibbering shell of his former self? Whose ocotopoid appendages are always reaching, searching for palid, soft flesh?
Nay, I say - the cactopodes are not innocent or poor creatures. They are the squelching spawn of a hostile, alien environment.
 
2013-02-08 10:18:52 AM
Evolution will make the cactus bulletproof eventually....
 
2013-02-08 10:22:09 AM

Kit Fister: ciberido: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Because it kills the cactus, you farking idiot.

If  you're a responsible shooter you don't go around shooting cacti.

If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

ONCE AGAIN, GO BACK AND READ MY FARKING POSTS.

Now, get back to me when you've done that, sparky.


No, I'm done with you.  The homophobia, the racism, the blame-the-victim crap when commenting on rape and other crimes, the Objectivist derp, the general belligerence and insults: it's all a pattern.  Either you're a troll or there's something fundamentally broke inside you.  I don't think I'll be reading any more of your FARKING POSTS.
 
2013-02-08 10:25:56 AM

violentsalvation: [i798.photobucket.com image 850x850]
There are assholes out there.. In this case I guess shooting the sign is acknowledging that you read it.


Well, as long as they are past the sign and shoot back at it, that's legal then. Right?
 
2013-02-08 10:26:15 AM

dittybopper: Someone *IS* using a cannon:

[media.azfamily.com image 600x338]

However, it doesn't sound like he's being unsafe about it:

Believe it or not, Dale Shoemaker even brought his homemade cannon there to fire off rounds.

He said he came to the Tonto because he can't shoot a cannon in his own neighborhood.

From the looks of it, there seems to be enough areas that make effective backstops (see the hill in the background?) so it's probably not a safety issue either.  This picture seems to confirm that:

[media.azfamily.com image 600x338]

That looks like an extremely safe place to shoot.

Cleaning up after yourself, and trying not to damage the cacti would be a good thing, but from a safety standpoint?  Meh.

/Police up your brass and targets.


safety isnt the issue. turning a formerly pristine part of a NATIONAL PARK into a garbage dump is. I've seen sand pits in AZ that were so polluted with lead they were hazardous and so much trash, literal trash, that they look like a junkyard. and that's MY land, you shiatbirds. Yours too. Once again, people like this are a big part of the reason they want to take your guns away and I honestly can't say I'm sorry about it.
 
2013-02-08 10:28:56 AM

ciberido: No, I'm done with you. The homophobia, the racism, the blame-the-victim crap when commenting on rape and other crimes, the Objectivist derp, the general belligerence and insults: it's all a pattern. Either you're a troll or there's something fundamentally broke inside you. I don't think I'll be reading any more of your FARKING POSTS.


I think you've got me confused with someone else...I've never posted anything about Homophobia (I'm pro-gay-marriage and do-whatever-you-want-behind-closed-doors), not even sure what "Objectivist derp" means, am fully willing to blame the victim if they did something to warrant getting shot or hurt (gangbanger who got shot for being a gangbanger? Yep, Going to blame him...), and I'm not sure where I've been belligerent or insulting to anyone?  I do genuinely deeply apologize if you feel that I have.
 
2013-02-08 10:29:24 AM

SevenizGud: OMG, those poor cacti! This just pushes them that much closer to extinction. There are hardly any left.

[www.planetware.com image 500x334]


Because there exists only a single species of cactus, and it is clearly not endangered.
 
2013-02-08 10:30:30 AM

Kit Fister: Or, you know, you can continue to be blinded by rage over something stupid and continue to be part of the problem.


Well you did come in here "guns blazing" as it were to push your viewpoint without reading the article. Like I said, you seem to be one of the more reasonable ones. You should try to represent your side rationally and intelligently if you want to garner respect and help people meet you in the middle ground.

Even if the cacti weren't endangered I still think it's pretty crappy to go shooting up plants for no reason... especially in an area where there is so little plant life. Cacti are little micro eco systems out there in the desert. You aren't just killing the plant when you blast it into oblivion. Not to mention it ruins the scenery. I've never been to the american deserts but they've always looked quite beautiful to me. I'd be sorely disappointed if I went out there to soak it all in only to show up and have it at f*cked up because some guys were too cheap/lazy/selfish to go to a range/set up their own targets/clean up after themselves.
 
2013-02-08 10:31:03 AM
Oh, and as for racism...name one time when I posted something racist.
 
2013-02-08 10:32:02 AM

here to help: Kit Fister: Or, you know, you can continue to be blinded by rage over something stupid and continue to be part of the problem.

Well you did come in here "guns blazing" as it were to push your viewpoint without reading the article. Like I said, you seem to be one of the more reasonable ones. You should try to represent your side rationally and intelligently if you want to garner respect and help people meet you in the middle ground.

Even if the cacti weren't endangered I still think it's pretty crappy to go shooting up plants for no reason... especially in an area where there is so little plant life. Cacti are little micro eco systems out there in the desert. You aren't just killing the plant when you blast it into oblivion. Not to mention it ruins the scenery. I've never been to the american deserts but they've always looked quite beautiful to me. I'd be sorely disappointed if I went out there to soak it all in only to show up and have it at f*cked up because some guys were too cheap/lazy/selfish to go to a range/set up their own targets/clean up after themselves.


I generally agree with that.
 
2013-02-08 10:37:13 AM

Kit Fister: Oh, and as for racism...name one time when I posted something racist.


I've never seen you pull any of the crap you've just been accused of. If you had I would either not talk to you or I'd mock you mercilessly.

That guy must indeed be mistaken.
 
2013-02-08 10:37:51 AM
i877.photobucket.com

Where's MY national park? Where?
I'm a white man!
Star of the show!
He's a damn savage!
And he gets a park?!!


say that in Bea Arthurs voice. Its much more fun!
 
2013-02-08 10:38:08 AM

willfullyobscure: safety isnt the issue. turning a formerly pristine part of a NATIONAL PARK into a garbage dump is. I've seen sand pits in AZ that were so polluted with lead they were hazardous and so much trash, literal trash, that they look like a junkyard. and that's MY land, you shiatbirds. Yours too. Once again, people like this are a big part of the reason they want to take your guns away and I honestly can't say I'm sorry about it.


What part of "Police up your brass and targets" didn't you understand?
 
2013-02-08 10:42:05 AM

Kit Fister: here to help: Kit Fister: Or, you know, you can continue to be blinded by rage over something stupid and continue to be part of the problem.

Well you did come in here "guns blazing" as it were to push your viewpoint without reading the article. Like I said, you seem to be one of the more reasonable ones. You should try to represent your side rationally and intelligently if you want to garner respect and help people meet you in the middle ground.

Even if the cacti weren't endangered I still think it's pretty crappy to go shooting up plants for no reason... especially in an area where there is so little plant life. Cacti are little micro eco systems out there in the desert. You aren't just killing the plant when you blast it into oblivion. Not to mention it ruins the scenery. I've never been to the american deserts but they've always looked quite beautiful to me. I'd be sorely disappointed if I went out there to soak it all in only to show up and have it at f*cked up because some guys were too cheap/lazy/selfish to go to a range/set up their own targets/clean up after themselves.

I generally agree with that.


You guys need to get a room
 
2013-02-08 10:45:29 AM

dittybopper: What part of "Police up your brass and targets" didn't you understand?


Uh... how is him cleaning up after himself stopping all the other idiots from making a mess? What you've said makes no sense.
 
2013-02-08 10:46:38 AM

baronvonzipper: You guys need to get a room


OH NOES!! RATIONAL DISCUSSION!! YA'LL ARE TEH GAYZORS!!!
 
2013-02-08 11:00:37 AM

here to help: dittybopper: What part of "Police up your brass and targets" didn't you understand?
What you've said makes no sense.


This Is Your Fark
 
2013-02-08 11:01:31 AM
I grew up right by the Tonto National Forest boundary where it borders the Phoenix suburbs, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

/not the story though
//native Zonies know better than to shoot 'em--needed for Sonoran ecosystem (not to mention Tourism)
///slashies come in threes
 
2013-02-08 11:10:30 AM
Some people are assholes.  Is water still wet?
 
2013-02-08 11:12:50 AM
Thanks, Responsible Gun Owners™!
 
2013-02-08 11:19:52 AM

ciberido: Kit Fister: ciberido: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Because it kills the cactus, you farking idiot.

If  you're a responsible shooter you don't go around shooting cacti.

If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

ONCE AGAIN, GO BACK AND READ MY FARKING POSTS.

Now, get back to me when you've done that, sparky.

No, I'm done with you.  The homophobia, the racism, the blame-the-victim crap when commenting on rape and other crimes, the Objectivist derp, the general belligerence and insults: it's all a pattern.  Either you're a troll or there's something fundamentally broke inside you.  I don't think I'll be reading any more of your FARKING POSTS.


Don't bother.  A huffy "I'm done with you!" is just this guy's standard drama-queen play for attention.
 
2013-02-08 11:21:29 AM

udhq: ciberido: Kit Fister: ciberido: Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?

Because it kills the cactus, you farking idiot.

If  you're a responsible shooter you don't go around shooting cacti.

If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

ONCE AGAIN, GO BACK AND READ MY FARKING POSTS.

Now, get back to me when you've done that, sparky.

No, I'm done with you.  The homophobia, the racism, the blame-the-victim crap when commenting on rape and other crimes, the Objectivist derp, the general belligerence and insults: it's all a pattern.  Either you're a troll or there's something fundamentally broke inside you.  I don't think I'll be reading any more of your FARKING POSTS.

Don't bother.  A huffy "I'm done with you!" is just this guy's standard drama-queen play for attention.


?
 
2013-02-08 11:22:14 AM

here to help: dittybopper: What part of "Police up your brass and targets" didn't you understand?

Uh... how is him cleaning up after himself stopping all the other idiots from making a mess? What you've said makes no sense.


It's a general statement that applies to all shooters everywhere.

Also, it is one of those life lessons you should have learned in Kindergarten.
 
2013-02-08 11:23:11 AM

edmo: I lived there a long time and found that Arizona shooters seem to be a lower life form. They shoot up more stuff and leave trash everywhere. The desert feels like a big trash pit to them so they treat it that way.

I  just don't see that here in the Midwest. People are a lot better about picking up after themselves and preserving nature.


Yep, washers, ovens, fridges, whatever the fark they want to drag out and shoot, they'll do it, and then leave it there. It used to piss me off, but I solved that by moving out of state.
 
2013-02-08 11:28:27 AM

dittybopper: It's a general statement that applies to all shooters everywhere.


And the geniuses you are trying to defend aren't honoring that particular part of the social contract. When enough people decide they are above common sense/courtesy and behave irresponsibly sadly that's when the powers that be have to step in and do something for the rest of society. Perhaps YOU should go out there and clean up their mess and teach them some manners if you want to avoid that. Otherwise the asshats should be held accountable for their disrespectful and irresponsible behavior. This is NOT responsible gun ownership and I'd have no problem with their guns being taken away.
 
2013-02-08 11:29:01 AM

Kit Fister: So what? Who the fark cares about cacti? If you're a responsible shooter who cleans up after himself and endanger no one...so farking what?


Have fun explaining that one to the judge when you get cited. Saguaro are protected, you can't even remove one from your own property without filling out the correct paperwork. They grow nowhere in the US except in a relatively small section of Az.
 
2013-02-08 11:33:13 AM

Alex Broughton Butt Chugger: Secondly a bullet fired into a cactus is unlikely to stay in the cactus, assuming you even hit the cactus, so yeah it's hardly not dangerous.


You haven't seen a saguaro, have you? It takes a lot of shooting to make it fall apart like in the pictures. Otherwise, it's gonna stop your basic bullet.

/Still no excuse to shoot them up, but they aren't exactly made of tissue paper, even though they are mostly water.
 
2013-02-08 11:33:41 AM

dittybopper: willfullyobscure: safety isnt the issue. turning a formerly pristine part of a NATIONAL PARK into a garbage dump is. I've seen sand pits in AZ that were so polluted with lead they were hazardous and so much trash, literal trash, that they look like a junkyard. and that's MY land, you shiatbirds. Yours too. Once again, people like this are a big part of the reason they want to take your guns away and I honestly can't say I'm sorry about it.

What part of "Police up your brass and targets" didn't you understand?


The part where i can't drive 5 miles into the Superstitions without having to look at giant piles of waste and trash and dying 100 year old cacti and contaminated soil thanks to "responsible gun owners". I have no problem with your prescriptions, friend.Everything you post seems to be indicate you are a smart, sensible and responsible firearms enthusiast. However,  I have a problem with the reality that ignorant, stupid, irresponsible shooters leave behind. Apparently your message hasn't reached them yet.
 
2013-02-08 11:38:59 AM

Prey4reign: The NRA wants you to know if the cacti had guns, these sorts of shenanigans would never occur.

Amused at the idea that some Arizona nimrod drags his cannon out there and blasts away a bunch of cacti and scorpions.  Whatta manly man!



Good thing the article doesn't mention him shooting cacti AT ALL, just that he's shooting. And it's almost impossible to shoot scorpions, those things spend the majority of the daylight hours under rocks. Rocks that are just set in the ground enough to have a little bit of moisture beneath them, but not enough that you have to work them out of the soil.

Nice hyperbole though, keeps the discussion nice and clear.
 
2013-02-08 11:41:24 AM
I'm in the Arizona desert looking at a saguaro cactus RIGHT NOW, so I'm really getting a kick.

Even better, the training I just went to was at a huge shooting range in Phoenix, and I got to listen to people shooting and shooting and shooting all day long. Arizona is certainly an interesting place.
 
2013-02-08 11:44:05 AM

dittybopper: ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

Because people are less valuable than a plant.


Some people are less valuable than a plant.
 
2013-02-08 11:46:31 AM

here to help: Kit Fister: Oh, and as for racism...name one time when I posted something racist.

I've never seen you pull any of the crap you've just been accused of. If you had I would either not talk to you or I'd mock you mercilessly.

That guy must indeed be mistaken.


Perhaps he assumed that because Kit Fister opposes unreasonable firearm regulation that he must also logically hate homosexuals and people of colour. Such confusion is common amongst many stupid individuals.
 
2013-02-08 11:52:14 AM

Dimensio: dittybopper: ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

Because people are less valuable than a plant.

Some people are less valuable than a plant.


I disagree.  Even the most worthless person is infinitely more valuable than the most valuable plant.
 
2013-02-08 12:00:59 PM

ciberido: No, I'm done with you.  The homophobia, the racism, the blame-the-victim crap when commenting on rape and other crimes, the Objectivist derp, the general belligerence and insults: it's all a pattern.  Either you're a troll or there's something fundamentally broke inside you.  I don't think I'll be reading any more of your FARKING POSTS.


What does objectivism have to do with this? The entire basis of the philsophy is don't be an asshole to others.  It is just that 90% of those who call themselves Objectivists have no grasp of ethics - and hence are assholes. There are assholes to be found among all groups of people with all kinds of political or philosophical viewpoint. The big picture here are assholes, and how to prevent them from shiatting all over everything they see.
 
2013-02-08 12:05:19 PM

dittybopper: Dimensio: dittybopper: ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

Because people are less valuable than a plant.

Some people are less valuable than a plant.

I disagree.  Even the most worthless person is infinitely more valuable than the most valuable plant.


Not really, I mean certain parts play a vital role in the ecosystem. Most people do not. I'm not particularly valuable aside the whole 'human life is valuable' notion that humanity has created, like money.  All life and all notions are meaningless in and of themselves until otherwise imposed upon by a presumed notion. If all humanity died out Earth would still exist and the rest of the creatures would go on without a concern (with the exception of those we have completely domestic relationship like dogs/cats/certain herd creatures).
 
2013-02-08 12:17:12 PM
I think the reason you don't see bullet-riddled appliances in the midwest is they rust away, blend in and get covered in vegetation. Or they just end up under water. In Arizona they just sit out in the middle of open nothingness forever, sunbaked brilliant white.
 
2013-02-08 12:20:14 PM

here to help: dittybopper: It's a general statement that applies to all shooters everywhere.

And the geniuses you are trying to defend aren't honoring that particular part of the social contract. When enough people decide they are above common sense/courtesy and behave irresponsibly sadly that's when the powers that be have to step in and do something for the rest of society. Perhaps YOU should go out there and clean up their mess and teach them some manners if you want to avoid that. Otherwise the asshats should be held accountable for their disrespectful and irresponsible behavior. This is NOT responsible gun ownership and I'd have no problem with their guns being taken away.


I'm not defending anybody.  Then again, I'm not tarring a large group of people like some people in this thread seem to be.  There are assholes in every sufficiently large group of people.

I would have a *MAJOR* problem with the part I bolded, though.

Fine them for littering, OK.  Fine them for damaging a protected species?  Got no problem with that.

When you start talking about taking guns away, though, you need a pretty damned good reason for it, backed up with evidence and due process for the accused.  It's an enumerated constitutional right.

Littering doesn't seem to rise to that level of a crime, where you need to restrict the rights of those who commit it.   Even shooting a Saguaro is only a misdemeanor under Arizona law.

You don't take away fundamental protected rights for a misdemeanor.
 
2013-02-08 12:26:01 PM

Maggie_Luna: dittybopper: Dimensio: dittybopper: ciberido: If you shoot cacti, YOU should be the target.

Because people are less valuable than a plant.

Some people are less valuable than a plant.

I disagree.  Even the most worthless person is infinitely more valuable than the most valuable plant.

Not really, I mean certain parts play a vital role in the ecosystem. Most people do not. I'm not particularly valuable aside the whole 'human life is valuable' notion that humanity has created, like money.  All life and all notions are meaningless in and of themselves until otherwise imposed upon by a presumed notion. If all humanity died out Earth would still exist and the rest of the creatures would go on without a concern (with the exception of those we have completely domestic relationship like dogs/cats/certain herd creatures).


So, then you'd have no problem if I merely considered you to have no value beyond that of being a vaginal life support system?  After all, the idea that you are a person with value beyond being a sex object is a an artificial human construct, right?

Call me a speciest if you like, but I consider the most worthless person to be more valuable than the most rare animal or plant.  If it came down to the choice between killing the last left-hand spiral unicorn to feed a starving man, and letting the man die, I'd kill the unicorn without hesitation.
 
2013-02-08 12:26:52 PM

violentsalvation: I think the reason you don't see bullet-riddled appliances in the midwest is they rust away, blend in and get covered in vegetation. Or they just end up under water. In Arizona they just sit out in the middle of open nothingness forever, sunbaked brilliant white.


Well, you need them out there as shelter in case of unexpected nuclear tests.
 
2013-02-08 12:33:51 PM

dittybopper: When you start talking about taking guns away, though, you need a pretty damned good reason for it, backed up with evidence and due process for the accused. It's an enumerated constitutional right.


I'd say using them in the commission of a crime (shooting the cacti is illegal) and firing them in close enough proximity to someones home to the point it's causing them concern is a good enough reason to deem these people too irresponsible to own deadly weapons. No where in the constitution does it say you can act like an asshole with your firearms. Being an asshole is not a right. Don't want to lose your gun... don't be an asshole with it. If someone started shooting up trees in your neighborhood would you be all hunky dory with that?

Seriously, gun folks. If you ALL exhibited some common sense then this discussion wouldn't even be happening. For those of you that are indeed responsible and respectful you should be screaming the loudest at the idiots. They are your biggest enemy in this fight. Not the evil "libruls". Most gun control advocates don't want a full ban. They want to make sure that YOU the REAL responsible gun owners are the ones who have the weapons. And even the sh*tcocks can have weapons too... just as long as they learn not be sh*tcocks with them.

Now I'm sure that I'll get a reasonable response that totally doesn't ignore everything I said and not blame me for being a gunny gun grabby mcgrabber homosex 0bamassiah felching socialist Nazi hippie thug with poop in my pants.
 
2013-02-08 12:42:34 PM
Oh and for a "right" that has supposedly been handed down by God himself and is expected to be taken with the utmost seriousness a lot of gun owners sure seem to crap all over that notion the second the conversation about regulation ends.

Gun dudes: "Me and my rights should be taken seriously dammit!! I am a serious person who takes the responsibility of gun ownership SERIOUSLY!!"

Libturds: "Well... alright. We'll trust you on that."

Gun dudes: "YEE HAW!!!" *reckless senseless mayhem*

Libturds: *eye roll* "Hand 'em over, Tex."

Gun dudes "RESPONSIBLE, GOD, MURRICA, FLAGS, CRYING EAGLES!!!"
 
2013-02-08 01:10:10 PM
I did a little sleuthing on the Intarwebs.

George and Lynn Martin operate JF Ranch, and guess what?   They didn't complain when the local Rod and Gun club came by and repaired a couple miles of their fence.  It's an effort the local gun club calls "Adopt A Ranch".

Kind of a nice counterbalance to the image of shooters as just assholes who only destroy stuff.
 
2013-02-08 01:27:04 PM
I hate people.
 
2013-02-08 01:36:38 PM

dittybopper: Kind of a nice counterbalance to the image of shooters as just assholes who only destroy stuff.


I'm sure they are fine with the gun club and for the most part so am I. This isn't about gun owners in general. It's about assholes that own guns. Why do you want to defend assholes who undermine your own agenda and beliefs? Seems counterproductive.
 
2013-02-08 01:39:44 PM

here to help: I'd say using them in the commission of a crime (shooting the cacti is illegal)


It's only a misdemeanor.  In fact, even the third offense is still only a misdemeanor.  Doesn't rise to the level where you get your rights taken away (felony level).

and firing them in close enough proximity to someones home to the point it's causing them concern is a good enough reason to deem these people too irresponsible to own deadly weapons.

Actually, the main complaint in the article isn't safety, it's people shooting protected cacti, and littering.   Look at the pictures I posted, which came from the article:  Nice safe backstops in the form of huge hills.  This isn't a flat desert area.  The people are complaining about the trash:

 Their property borders the Tonto National Forest where target shooters are causing damage to plants and leaving huge amounts of trash behind.
...


Shooters bring out all types of junk, from refrigerators to washing machines, to use as targets and the ground is littered with spent shells.

"The place has gone to hell," said George Martin. "And it's just getting worse everyday."

While they applaud the efforts of the Pinal County Sheriff's Department, they said the Tonto National Forest and the Arizona Game and Fish Department are doing little to control illegal shooting and the trashing of the area.

 ...
The Martins want Shoemaker and other shooters to remember the area along the Tonto is their neighborhood and they'd like them to treat it with respect.


It's not a safety issue, it's a littering/damage to natural resources issue.

 No where in the constitution does it say you can act like an asshole with your firearms.

Actually, yes it does, in the same place it says you can act like an asshole online, the Bill of Rights.  Now, if you do something that is actionable, like littering or damaging something, you have to face the consequences of that.  But generally we don't take things away from assholes.

Being an asshole is not a right.

Sure it is, you douchebag.  Your mother really knows how to gobble the knob, you know?  If it weren't for the fact that penicillin shots are so expensive, I'd visit her more often.   See, you do have the right to be an asshole.  If you cause some actual damage, you're liable for that, of course, but generally being an asshole is one of those cherished American rights.

Don't want to lose your gun... don't be an asshole with it.

Don't want to lose your computer?  Don't be an asshole with it.

Don't want to lose your right to remain silent?  Don't be an asshole to cops.

Don't want to lose your right to just compensation for property seized?  Don't be an asshole.

Don't want to lose your right against unreasonable search and seizure?  Don't be an asshole.

Don't want to lose your right to worship (or not) as you please?  Don't be an asshole.

Don't want to lose your right to vote?  Don't be an asshole.

See, where I come from, even assholes have rights.

 If someone started shooting up trees in your neighborhood would you be all hunky dory with that?

Actually, yes, if there were huge backstops like that in my neighborhood.

In fact, I'm from a rural part of New York State.  Gunfire isn't an unknown sound where I grew up.  In fact, it was quite common.  Hell, I still go over to my father's house to shoot, and while it's not quite safe enough for regular shooting of actual firearms in my immediate neighborhood, I do shoot my air rifle and my bow in the backyard, and no one thinks twice about it.  I have shot a coyote on my property, but I was very careful about it*, and I had no problems, but that's the exception.


*There is a very narrow area where I can shoot a firearm safely, and I had to wait until the 'yote entered that zone.  Out of deference to my neighbors I used subsonic ammo.  This was back when we had a problem with the local coyotes being too bold in an area with almost a dozen kids under 10 years old. I had a hunting license, they were in season, and my neighbors were OK with it.
 
2013-02-08 01:41:58 PM

here to help: dittybopper: Kind of a nice counterbalance to the image of shooters as just assholes who only destroy stuff.

I'm sure they are fine with the gun club and for the most part so am I. This isn't about gun owners in general. It's about assholes that own guns. Why do you want to defend assholes who undermine your own agenda and beliefs? Seems counterproductive.


As I pointed out above, assholes have rights, even assholes like you (and me, for that matter).

Maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned, but losing an enumerated right for a littering charge seems a little excessive to me, Officer Obie.
 
2013-02-08 02:02:54 PM
Welp... then I have no sympathy for you. All people want is a little more accountability and responsibility from the "responsible" gun owners. If you just want to pull the firearms equivalent of farting in everyone's face then don't expect any respect from the rest of society who are desperately trying to figure out some fair and decent solutions to this very important problem.

*fart*
 
2013-02-08 02:07:11 PM
And really I don't have a puppy in this fight but it does bother me to see people getting hurt and a country ripping itself apart when a little bit of thought and co-operation from BOTH sides could easily garner some positive and reasonable solutions. Life could be better. Society could be better. Why not make it better?
 
2013-02-08 02:18:55 PM
Never Surrender
 
2013-02-08 02:19:39 PM

here to help: Welp... then I have no sympathy for you. All people want is a little more accountability and responsibility from the "responsible" gun owners. If you just want to pull the firearms equivalent of farting in everyone's face then don't expect any respect from the rest of society who are desperately trying to figure out some fair and decent solutions to this very important problem.

*fart*


I don't have a problem with the part that I bolded, and we in fact agree on that, except by putting scare quotes around the word responsible, you are tarring every gun owner.

That I can't accept.

Also, your idea about taking away the guns of people for littering seems excessive.
 
2013-02-08 02:23:21 PM

wambu: Never Surrender


Ah, yes, the motto of the Provisional NRA.
 
2013-02-08 02:55:54 PM

dittybopper: I don't have a problem with the part that I bolded, and we in fact agree on that, except by putting scare quotes around the word responsible, you are tarring every gun owner.

That I can't accept.

Also, your idea about taking away the guns of people for littering seems excessive.


The quotations were not in reference to the actual responsible gun owners which I know there are plenty of. I'll explain my motivation for that a bit further. There are a lot of folks who are very much IRRESPONSIBLE yet hide behind their self proclaimed "responsible" status. These are the people I deride. These are the people I think that need to be reigned in. Personally I'd rather see them learn to reflect the word properly through education as opposed to removing the weapons from them outright. However they don't want that. They don't feel they should be accountable for ANYTHING. Therein lies the issue and if they are unwilling to get their own behavior under control what other options are there than to FORCE them to be responsible? Guns are too dangerous in the wrong hands to just dismiss these folks.

As far as "littering" you know this isn't just throwing a candybar wrapper on the ground. This is dragging large objects into nature to get their rocks off then leaving a mess and yes, it can be quite unnerving to some. If I lived in an area where this type of thing was going on I'd be concerned for my safety and those around me as if those people have so little respect for nature and common decency how much respect are they going to to have towards the local population. Add to that they are destroying endangered wildlife and messing with the eco system... well it paints a picture of someone who doesn't seem to give a f*ck about much of anything. That is not the type of person I want to see having massive military grade fire power. It's just asking for trouble. At the very least downgrade them to only being able to own a six shooter and low capacity rifles for home defense and hunting.

With great power comes great responsibility. Guns = power. Guns + irresponsibility = the potential for abuse of power.

I'm not a fan of big gov and I can respect the need for the people to be able to keep that power in check... however I trust big gov to rule over me than the type of people who think the behavior described in the article is acceptable.

Knowaddimean? Just want to get the yahoos to be less yahooish more than anything.
 
2013-02-08 04:05:12 PM

Kit Fister: Or, you know, you can continue to be blinded by rage over something stupid and continue to be part of the problem.


I apologize for being an asshole.
 
2013-02-08 04:12:50 PM

here to help: Knowaddimean? Just want to get the yahoos to be less yahooish more than anything.


Might as well ask the googles to be less googlish.

On the serious note, though, it does pretty much boil down to littering.

It's unsightly and shouldn't be done.

I've actually gone shooting in wild areas, and I've always packed out what I packed in.  The one exception is the projectiles for my mortar:  They tend to bury themselves.  I recover the ones I can.

Now, the proper way to handle this is to go ahead and clean up an area, then watch it.  If someone messes it up, there are legal remedies for that.  You can charge them for littering, and if a few people have to pay some fines, it will get around that it's not a good idea to do it, and the incidents of it will drop.

As it is, it sounds like the regulations about littering and against shooting the saguaros aren't being enforced at all.  That's a recipe for disaster.  Imagine if, on the highway near your home, the speed limit was set at 65 MPH, but it was never, ever enforced.  What do you think would happen?  Most people would drive close enough to the limit, but you'd have some assholes who decide that because no one ever gets a ticket there, they can drive 125 MPH.

Thinking on it now, perhaps the article in question is more to embarrass the local law enforcement into action than anything else.
 
2013-02-08 04:49:36 PM

Kit Fister: Yes, really. Honestly. I'm sorry, but I don't see what the hell the problem is.


It's just that they're really slow-growing.  To somebody from elsewhere, they're the size of a tree that's a couple of years old.

At five years, a Saguaro is about the size of a jellybean.  At 10, it's a cocktail weiner.  At <i>forty years</i>, it will be about four feet tall, and if it does well for itself, it may have a single stubby branch by 75.  The stereotypical multi-armed ones you see in pictures are generally in the 150-year-old ballpark.
 
2013-02-08 05:17:28 PM
If only the trash left by illegal immigrants would bring forth such outrage.  No appliances, but lots of bottles, backpacks, clothes, poop and stuff.
 
2013-02-09 11:26:27 AM

SevenizGud: OMG, those poor cacti! This just pushes them that much closer to extinction. There are hardly any left.

[www.planetware.com image 500x334]


God, I HATE Republican "logic".  It is the logic of a child.

Liberals develop critical thinking skills.  If Repugs ever developed those skills we wouldn't be in the situation we are in.

Yes, they are endangered.  They are close together BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE LEGS!

If you put all the endangered tigers together, it would look like a lot too, you idiot.
 
2013-02-09 06:18:16 PM

dittybopper: That looks like an extremely safe place to shoot.

Cleaning up after yourself, and trying not to damage the cacti would be a good thing


In general, it is: I used to shoot there. Every time I went, I'd pack out about four or five big trash bags with spent brass, shotgun hulls, cardboard boxes, metal crap, trash, etc. -- that's about all that could fit in my trunk. Other stuff we'd bag up and leave in a convenient place for the next guy or the rangers to pack out if they had the room/time. (We'd leave a note attached saying that the bags were cases, hulls, trash, etc. and should be discarded appropriately but we didn't have enough room in our vehicles and would be obliged if others could take at least one with them.) If I went out with a friend with a pickup, we'd take out some of the bigger stuff like water heaters(!) that people would shoot and drop them off at a metal recycler.

People leaving trash, spent cases, etc. are douches who are irresponsible. One should always try to pack out more than one packs in and leave it in a better state than before.

People shooting cactus go beyond irresponsible and into the realm of douchebaggery. Fark them sideways.
 
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