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(Talking Points Memo)   Catholic bishops: We need a way around the contraception rule. Obama: OK, here you go. Bishops: Not good enough   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 264
    More: Asinine, obama, Catholic bishop, contraceptives, Cecile Richards, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, bishops, individual mandate  
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4051 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Feb 2013 at 7:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-08 12:05:57 AM  
So, I see that the USCCB is taking a page out of the NRA's playbook:  Yell and scream at any/all proposals, even the ones that give you 99.9% of what you wanted to begin with.

Well, the NRA lost all of their bargaining chips as a result, but good luck trying that again, you idiot bishops.
 
2013-02-08 12:08:08 AM  
Why don't they f*cking pray on it and hope their imaginary friend intervenes.

Spoiler: He doesn't.
 
2013-02-08 12:08:51 AM  
oh, and Archbishop Douchebag Dolan wants to take even the new proposed rule to court?  Go ahead, I say.  The new proposal gives them a clear separation from the medicine in question, and their monies will never even come close to touching it.  they'll have no grounds on which to claim irreparable harm.
 
2013-02-08 12:14:01 AM  
oh, this is just awesome.  From Dolan's remarks:

"Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge..."

Well, perhaps if Dolan had bothered to read the damn proposal, he would have seen this line:  "eligible organizations would not have to contract, arrange, pay or refer for any contraceptive coverage to which they object on religious grounds."
 
2013-02-08 12:25:07 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: oh, and Archbishop Douchebag Dolan wants to take even the new proposed rule to court?  Go ahead, I say.  The new proposal gives them a clear separation from the medicine in question, and their monies will never even come close to touching it.  they'll have no grounds on which to claim irreparable harm.


Yeah. But it will help them look persecuted, and they love that more than anything.
 
2013-02-08 02:37:03 AM  
At least he's not saying to the for-profit business owners, "Fark you, I got mine."

But he will.
 
2013-02-08 03:29:37 AM  
I would love to see women and men of good conscious leave the employ of these companies, and find work with companies that aren't looking to dictate health care decisions to their female employees. I realize the economy is still difficult, but when these businesses that want to decide what health insurance options they will provide based upon their Faith have difficulty qualified workers anymore, maybe they will join the rest of us in the 21st century.
 
2013-02-08 04:28:37 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: oh, this is just awesome.  From Dolan's remarks:

"Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge..."

Well, perhaps if Dolan had bothered to read the damn proposal, he would have seen this line:  "eligible organizations would not have to contract, arrange, pay or refer for any contraceptive coverage to which they object on religious grounds."


And I always thought that the religious freedom was an individual right. Silly me.
 
2013-02-08 04:58:08 AM  

DrPainMD: Grand_Moff_Joseph: oh, this is just awesome.  From Dolan's remarks:

"Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge..."

Well, perhaps if Dolan had bothered to read the damn proposal, he would have seen this line:  "eligible organizations would not have to contract, arrange, pay or refer for any contraceptive coverage to which they object on religious grounds."

And I always thought that the religious freedom was an individual right. Silly me.


individuals don't provide health insurance.
 
2013-02-08 05:21:52 AM  

log_jammin: DrPainMD: Grand_Moff_Joseph: oh, this is just awesome.  From Dolan's remarks:

"Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge..."

Well, perhaps if Dolan had bothered to read the damn proposal, he would have seen this line:  "eligible organizations would not have to contract, arrange, pay or refer for any contraceptive coverage to which they object on religious grounds."

And I always thought that the religious freedom was an individual right. Silly me.

individuals don't provide health insurance.


A) Sure they do. Google, "sole proprietorship."
2) How is that relevant?
 
2013-02-08 05:28:57 AM  

DrPainMD: A) Sure they do. Google, "sole proprietorship."


the catholic church is not a sole proprietorship.

DrPainMD: 2) How is that relevant?


because the topic is about churches and religious organizations providing health insurance.
 
2013-02-08 05:41:59 AM  

log_jammin: DrPainMD: A) Sure they do. Google, "sole proprietorship."

the catholic church is not a sole proprietorship.


I never claimed it was.

DrPainMD: 2) How is that relevant?

because the topic is about churches and religious organizations providing health insurance.


The topic is about people being forced to do things that violate their beliefs.
 
2013-02-08 06:43:49 AM  

DrPainMD: The topic is about people being forced to do things that violate their beliefs.


I don't believe in wearing pants, but i'm forced to every day by both the law and my employer.


The notion that an idea should be automatically respected and considered a valid excuse for an exemption from a law purely because it comes from something that somebody might have said 2,000 years ago should have no place in a modern society.
 
2013-02-08 07:20:50 AM  

DrPainMD: The topic is about people being forced to do things that violate their beliefs.


Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in blood transfusions. Scientologists don't believe in psychiatric help. Christian scientists don't believe in most medical treatments at all. Should their beliefs be adhered to as well?

"Sorry about your dying kid, Employee, but I'm a Witness and I can't authorize any blood transfusions in my health care plan".
 
2013-02-08 07:28:00 AM  

DrPainMD: log_jammin: DrPainMD: A) Sure they do. Google, "sole proprietorship."

the catholic church is not a sole proprietorship.

I never claimed it was.

DrPainMD: 2) How is that relevant?

because the topic is about churches and religious organizations providing health insurance.

The topic is about people being forced to do things that violate their beliefs.


*Bzzt*  WRONG.

1.  Houses of worship (incl. convents, etc) were already exempt, even under the first form of the proposed rule
2.  The current proposal greatly expands the exemption list AND completely divorces the employer from the birth control by forcing the insurance company to pay for it via a completely separate plan that the employer never sees, touches, or pays for in any fashion.

No one - not an individual, or an employer - is being forced to do anything.  Also, last time I checked, 90%+ of Catholics were voluntarily violating their beliefs by using BC in some form.
 
2013-02-08 07:32:58 AM  
Dear Catholic Church: Fark you. Really.
 
2013-02-08 07:35:05 AM  
Are altar boy pregnancies really that much of a problem?
 
2013-02-08 07:39:55 AM  
Have they STILL not figured out that opposition to birth control is immoral?

Sheesh.
 
2013-02-08 07:40:07 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: DrPainMD: log_jammin: DrPainMD: A) Sure they do. Google, "sole proprietorship."

the catholic church is not a sole proprietorship.

I never claimed it was.

DrPainMD: 2) How is that relevant?

because the topic is about churches and religious organizations providing health insurance.

The topic is about people being forced to do things that violate their beliefs.

*Bzzt*  WRONG.

1.  Houses of worship (incl. convents, etc) were already exempt, even under the first form of the proposed rule
2.  The current proposal greatly expands the exemption list AND completely divorces the employer from the birth control by forcing the insurance company to pay for it via a completely separate plan that the employer never sees, touches, or pays for in any fashion.

No one - not an individual, or an employer - is being forced to do anything.  Also, last time I checked, 90%+ of Catholics were voluntarily violating their beliefs by using BC in some form.


Hell yeah we are!
 
2013-02-08 07:40:27 AM  
OMG guys, the child-molestiest sky spirit wizards have some serious demands.  Quick everyone drop everything so we can cater to them.
 
2013-02-08 07:40:36 AM  
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

//Quoted the whole passage to counter the "out of context" rebuttal, since the entire context is  repeating and reaffirming the message that you have to obey your nation's laws by god's direct command.
 
2013-02-08 07:40:41 AM  

log_jammin: DrPainMD: A) Sure they do. Google, "sole proprietorship."

the catholic church is not a sole proprietorship.


Actually, in the United States, the Catholic Church  is legally organized as something very close to a sole propietorship.

Each Diocese is a separate legal entity. Most (if not all) are organized on a "Corporation Sole" basis. All of the assets of the Diocese (including all parishes, etc.) are the posession of the Office of the Bishop as Corporation Sole.
 
2013-02-08 07:41:22 AM  
www.awesomegalore.com
 
2013-02-08 07:41:24 AM  
If only god had used a condom we wouldn't have to worry about this
 
2013-02-08 07:41:52 AM  

DrPainMD: log_jammin: DrPainMD: A) Sure they do. Google, "sole proprietorship."

the catholic church is not a sole proprietorship.

I never claimed it was.

DrPainMD: 2) How is that relevant?

because the topic is about churches and religious organizations providing health insurance.

The topic is about people being forced to do things that violate their beliefs.


images.sodahead.com
 
2013-02-08 07:43:18 AM  
Why do we allow churches to force their beliefs on others?
 
2013-02-08 07:45:03 AM  
Huh, TFA doesn't state the federal position nor why the church rejected it.

Still, the Fark God haters had enough to weigh in on.
 
2013-02-08 07:45:31 AM  

Friend_Computer: Are altar boy pregnancies really that much of a problem?


No, they use protection. Protection by the Pope from prosecution, that is.
 
2013-02-08 07:51:40 AM  
They want everyone, even private businesses, to have the freedom to punish women for being horny sluts. Anything that doesn't let them do that is unacceptable.
 
2013-02-08 07:54:32 AM  
1) It's not an exemption, it's an accounting fiction.
2) Laws should apply to everyone equally.  Especially bad laws.
 
2013-02-08 07:57:07 AM  
Why is it that Obama seeks to negotiate with people that don't want to negotiate?

You offer these people nothing, let them come crawling when you've utterly crushed them in the courts.
 
2013-02-08 07:59:17 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Why is it that Obama seeks to negotiate with people that don't want to negotiate?

You offer these people nothing, let them come crawling when you've utterly crushed them in the courts.


There's a problem with your plan. Scalia is a partisan hack who would willingly trash his opinion in Employment Division v. Smith just to stick it to the Usurper-in-chief, PresiDebt BaReefer HUSSEIN Fartbama al-Chicago.
 
2013-02-08 08:01:01 AM  
They sure seem to like that representation without taxation, shame if something happened to it.
 
2013-02-08 08:01:42 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Why is it that Obama seeks to negotiate with people that don't want to negotiate?


You would think he'd learn after the Republican congress crawled all over him in his first term because he thought they could negotiate.
 
2013-02-08 08:04:08 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Why is it that Obama seeks to negotiate with people that don't want to negotiate?

You offer these people nothing, let them come crawling when you've utterly crushed them in the courts.


Because he is a deeply flawed human being. He wants everyone to be happy.
 
2013-02-08 08:06:47 AM  
Well what is acceptable to the church? What is their solution?
 
2013-02-08 08:07:03 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: So, I see that the USCCB is taking a page out of the NRA's

Conservative  playbook:

FTFY
 
2013-02-08 08:14:32 AM  

crazydave023: Well what is acceptable to the church? What is their solution?


Apparently, complete subjugation of women.
 
2013-02-08 08:19:24 AM  
Just be happy you dont pay tax on your income or millions of homes you relgious derps
 
2013-02-08 08:19:49 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: So, I see that the USCCB is taking a page out of the NRA's playbook: Yell and scream at any/all proposals, even the ones that give you 99.9% of what you wanted to begin with.


There's your problem.  99.9% is still not 100%.
 
2013-02-08 08:20:47 AM  

crazydave023: Well what is acceptable to the church? What is their solution?


Their solution is to allow them to continue to force their beliefs on their employees, and the employees of those who call themselves catholic and happen to be in a position of power over others.  It's their constitutional right to force their religious beliefs on others.
 
2013-02-08 08:22:27 AM  
Frequently Bought Together...
i.imgur.com

Get Thee Behind Me Satan!!!
 
2013-02-08 08:23:39 AM  
Pray harder, farkers.
 
2013-02-08 08:23:55 AM  
Obvious tag busy getting violated by a priest behind the altar?
 
2013-02-08 08:25:15 AM  
If alter boys could get pregnant, birth control would be a sacrament.
 
2013-02-08 08:29:18 AM  
Fine. No quarter for these shiatheads then.
 
2013-02-08 08:30:20 AM  
disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com

"Why do pederasts need people to have more children?"
 
2013-02-08 08:33:07 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: oh, this is just awesome.  From Dolan's remarks:

"Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge..."

Well, perhaps if Dolan had bothered to read the damn proposal, he would have seen this line:  "eligible organizations would not have to contract, arrange, pay or refer for any contraceptive coverage to which they object on religious grounds."


The only problem with that is the differing definitions of 'eligible organization'. Here's Dolan's response:
"It appears to offer second-class status to our first-class institutions in Catholic health care, Catholic education and Catholic charities. HHS offers what it calls an 'accommodation' rather than accepting the fact that these ministries are integral to our church and worthy of the same exemption as our Catholic churches."

See, the government seems to think that hospitals and charities are not part of the Catholic church. Dolan thinks that they are an integral part, while the government is just being silly, pretending that the fact that they are separate legal entities not owned by the church means that they are not part of the church.
 
2013-02-08 08:34:41 AM  
 
2013-02-08 08:37:01 AM  

Karac: Grand_Moff_Joseph: oh, this is just awesome.  From Dolan's remarks:

"Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge..."

Well, perhaps if Dolan had bothered to read the damn proposal, he would have seen this line:  "eligible organizations would not have to contract, arrange, pay or refer for any contraceptive coverage to which they object on religious grounds."

The only problem with that is the differing definitions of 'eligible organization'. Here's Dolan's response:
"It appears to offer second-class status to our first-class institutions in Catholic health care, Catholic education and Catholic charities. HHS offers what it calls an 'accommodation' rather than accepting the fact that these ministries are integral to our church and worthy of the same exemption as our Catholic churches."

See, the government seems to think that hospitals and charities are not part of the Catholic church. Dolan thinks that they are an integral part, while the government is just being silly, pretending that the fact that they are separate legal entities not owned by the church means that they are not part of the church.


Oh, and he'd probably also consider business owned by 'observant' Catholics to be part of the faith as well.  Sorry, but I don't consider Hobby Lobby or Papa Johns to be religious organizations.

Although once or twice Taco Bell has made me pray to the porcelain god/
 
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