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(The Atlantic)   The problem with introverted kids these days is that they are introverted   (theatlantic.com) divider line 74
    More: Asinine, great expectations, Dartmouth Medical School, scavenger hunts, personality types  
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6968 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2013 at 1:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-02-08 01:22:03 AM
22 votes:
Extroverts need to learn to shut the hell up unless they have something worth saying.
2013-02-08 02:34:11 AM
7 votes:
Introverts just want to be left alone. When something is worth saying, we say it.
2013-02-08 01:15:47 AM
6 votes:
As a kid, I was an introvert (still am), but I was also the smartest kid in my classes.  So I had no problem with speaking up.  And I agree that the middle of the pack introverts need to be encouraged to engage in class discussion.

However, participation grades need to focus on quality of participation, not quantity.
2013-02-08 01:39:59 AM
5 votes:
I am always amazed in these threads how many farkers were the smartest kids in the class
2013-02-08 01:25:32 AM
5 votes:
Class participation grades.  As if showing up and pulling straight As on tests, assignments and papers ain't enough. Gack. One problem with class participation is the other kids might notice you're smart and bully you for the rest of your childhood.
2013-02-08 03:01:54 AM
4 votes:

realityraider: article is not asinine, its the truth.  *preaching coming up* ->  The author is reiterating that parents are responsible for their kids' behavior.  Tons and tons of parents still come up short, so these kinds of articles must be written.  If we dont like taking extra time to help our quiet children, then they are more likely be upset and they just do not yet know how to understand why people dont like their introvert behavior.  Humans are biased against introverts, i think that is a timeless truth.  An introvert will be ignored and then the endless mixed emotions surging through their brain will confuse the living shiat out of them until they breakdown.  The breakdown WOULD NOT happen if they were adequately helped to deal wid it.  Yes, adequate help for an introvert means more work for the parents, probably lots more work.  I assume these certain parents think its not worth the extra time?  That is just idiotic because its the needs of the offspring of their own womb.  OK, ignore your dogs needs, its a frickin dog, who cares if he has fleas?  But for these certain parents to not realize their own flesh and blood little learners are worth endless help to address their societal shortcomings is preposterous.  Its totally natural to hate on the quiet kids and say theyre trying to be difficult and so deserve to be ignored or punished.  So at the point the difficult YET honorable thing to do is deny the natural bias and make way more time in the schedule to help them, its quite simple to me.


This, to me, is the crux of the issue. You're arguing that someone like myself needs conversion therapy, that I am a flawed individual because of the way my brain naturally put thoughts together. That's farking asinine and barbaric. Would you tell someone whose brain and body naturally orient them to being attracted to members of the same sex that they need conversion therapy?
2013-02-08 02:59:36 AM
4 votes:
I remember in middle school the school counselor wanted my parents to send me to a therapist because I was labeled "severe introvert" on some school test we had to take upon getting to 6th grade. She felt that I would be a underachieving student if I didn't "participate" more. That was fun. My parents who are also quiet by nature, read her a riot act about it. 3.8 GPA in highschool and Magna Cum Laude in college, fark you school counselor.

I have no desire to be the center of attention, I don't talk out loud a lot, I don't feel the need to always be talking to maintain a comfort level with my surroundings like extroverts. To be perfectly honest I hate talking, I use like 10min a month on my cell phone plan, and that's only because my mom calls me and insists I carry on a conversation with her. I think the most talking I do is on comms for EVE Online. The internet is my haven.

I have no problem conveying my thoughts verbally when needed, and I'm usually quite blunt and to the point if asked something directly. I just don't understand why remaining quiet, reserved, thoughtful, and passive in a group of people was suddenly deemed a "bad" thing or that I need help overcoming a problem I don't actually have. This article is full of shiat and the person who wrote it needs to STFU for once and listen to the silence.
2013-02-08 02:11:05 AM
4 votes:

The One True TheDavid: Class participation grades.  As if showing up and pulling straight As on tests, assignments and papers ain't enough. Gack. One problem with class participation is the other kids might notice you're smart and bully you for the rest of your childhood.


There wasn't a single class I was in since first grade that didn't require "participation" in some form or another, whether it be asking questions in class, doing the homework, whatever. I pulled out fantastic grades--nothing but A's in elementary school--but I hated participating. In first grade I never did my homework, and still I made nothing but A's. High school? Hated participating, still pulled off a 3.4 GPA. College? Started coming out of my "shell" and participated a little--mostly to call professors out on obvious bullcrap--but still didn't "participate" to the level asked.

Am I an introvert? You better believe it. I hang out with my friends, but in public, at parties, and with my family, I generally keep to myself.

TL;DR? Class participation is bullcrap. Homework is bullcrap (caveat: for people that actually understand the material to begin with). Introverts are people too--cool people.
J3
2013-02-08 02:03:37 AM
4 votes:
People keep saying "in today's culture speaking up is a survival skill". Nope. Today more than ever before our culture has ways for introverts to do what they need to do in the way they prefer. The internet is the best thing that ever happened to introverts!
2013-02-08 01:39:36 AM
4 votes:
So if you speak up too much in class it's bad because you could be labeled ADD or disruptive or somesuch. If you don't speak up, it's bad because you're introverted or shy or whatever. In a few years, the girls will all get extra scrutiny because they're not speaking up because they're having self-esteem issues; while the boys will be eyeballed in case they're having gender identity issues and might be getting bullied.

Honestly, it was a lot easier when I was a kid and nobody gave a crap who was answering in class, as long as it was the right answer.
2013-02-08 05:31:36 AM
3 votes:
Fark this teacher.  No, seriously, fark him.  There is nothing wrong with being introverted.  Introverted kids cope quite well, thank you.  The perform well and they participate well, if given a damn chance without it being choked out of them.  The world or society at large is not and extroverted world, but it seems that way to extroverted people.  I'm damn happy and damn successful being introverted and I always have been.  Partly because I've never given a shiat when some extrovert tells me that I'm broken, or too quiet or that I need to smile more or some shiat.  I feel sorry for the kids who actually believe they have to change to satisfy other people.  Just leave the kids alone, they'll do fine.
2013-02-08 04:05:09 AM
3 votes:

cptjeff: My english classes taught drama as well as literature and asked for analysis in many different forms, including oral. Speaking to other people and arguing your point is a fundamental part of human life, regardless of subject. Classes, especially those in humanities, are intended to teach skills as well as subject matter, and this is a fairly basic life skill. Don't like it? Tough. They're gonna have to do it for the next 60 years anyway.


No, they aren't. As I mentioned, industry seeks out introverts and doesn't expect those people to be attention whores for sixty years, unless they're in PR, sales, or marketing.

Giving an occasional oral report, or answering questions that are posted to you isn't the same as telling a student that their grade is dependent upon their ongoing competing for attention.

I'm rock-solid introvert on the scale. I do just fine giving lectures and leading project meetings, but when I'm not leading, I'm quiet until and unless my input is required. Competing for attention is not a required job skill.
2013-02-08 03:33:20 AM
3 votes:
You'll all need to learn to dress nicely for job interviews at some point in your life. Therefore, I'm going to make part of your English grade dependent on clothing.
2013-02-08 02:24:46 AM
3 votes:
How long until Introversion shows up on the DSM?
2013-02-08 01:54:23 AM
3 votes:
Extroverting should require a license ensuring the bearer is capable of public interaction without reflexively spewing douche juice everywhere. Then cheeseballs like the lady who wrote this article for would be legally obligated to always remain very very quiet and life would be so nice.
2013-02-08 01:22:08 AM
3 votes:
They gave all the extroverted kids Ritalin and such because "they have ADHD". Teachers can't deal with active kids anymore. If they don't sit down and shut up, there has to be something wrong with them!

Ohhhh no, now all the kids are sitting down and shutting up!
2013-02-08 12:23:20 PM
2 votes:
Well, she's right. Speaking as someone who is an introvert, learning to speak up is a good life skill. However, she is a  farking idiot who does not realize the most basic requirement for teaching that to an introvert is a  safe space. If the classroom is a safe space, the introvert will speak up. If the classroom is  not a safe space--i.e. kids getting shot down by other kids or bullied, or the teacher snapping off instant responses--then it's just not going to happen.

Do not let extroverts teach introverts. It just does not work, and I speak from years of experience there. You have to actually know what the fark you're doing, and this lady, like quite a lot of extroverts, does not.
2013-02-08 09:19:25 AM
2 votes:
Or I can ask them to open their mouths, turn on their brains, and share their ideas with the rest of the class. I opt for a happy medium, and require a little bit of both.

So basically she assumes that if someone isn't talking they're not thinking. Great.
2013-02-08 07:56:03 AM
2 votes:
The problem with introverts is that people keep pestering them to open up.
2013-02-08 07:30:49 AM
2 votes:

cptjeff: Class participation grades are not dependent on loudness or quantity of comments.


That's exactly what they were when I was in school. A requirement that you make a comment or ask a question in every class session, even if you had absolutely nothing of substance to say. I am an introvert. That doesn't mean I am incapable of participation, or that I fear speaking up and having a debate. It only means that I find being around other people takes a lot of energy out of me, and that I don't open my mouth just to hear myself talk like the vaunted extroverts.

Lenny_da_Hog: It takes just a second to prompt a team member's input. It takes forever to get a roomful of extroverts to shut their mouths and stop competing for attention.


This is why I (engineer) dread any meeting that involves a lot of sales people. They never shut up, but they never actually say anything either.

MayoSlather: And they always feel they need to mention it. I'd argue anyone can work hard and get good grades, but it takes a lot more skill to figure out what the bare minimum of work can be done to get a passing grade. You know how many A's on finals I had to pull out my ass just to pass with C-? It's not easy being this lazy.


Sounds similar to my strategy in engineering school. I did the absolute minimum outside of class work required to graduate. It wasn't that I was opposed to learning. I just wasn't interested in being that nerd who studied 24/7 either. People call it slacking. I call it attaining maximum efficiency.

Serious Black: I had the lowest final exam score of anyone who got an A in the course. I was so proud of myself that day.


I had a class in my last semester in which I figured out how many questions I had to answer correctly on the final and still get an A for the semester, and once I knew I had that in the bank I just left the rest of the test blank and left.

Being an introvert is most definitely not seen as a negative in my profession. I have successfully avoided all manner of personality testing (and was asked not to attend future 'trainings' from the HR department) because I used my ability to communicate to tell them what a farking waste of my time it is to have me draw pictures of my goals rather than actually do the work that brings in revenue and that their job largely consists of creating preschool type busywork that doesn't justify their salaries. Between that and not giving the expected answer regarding teaching someone to be a leader, I'm generally not liked by HR. The upper management of our technical division is a different story, so I've been pretty successful. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I work for a company where what you say is far more important than how often you say it, and it is expected that you say what needs to be said, not what people want to hear. Blowing sunshine is not considered a positive attribute here.
2013-02-08 06:51:25 AM
2 votes:

Serious Black: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me too. You can take time to write and rewrite and rewrite some more before you actually click the button to add your comment.


Better still, you can finish an entire sentence without being cut off and spoken over.
2013-02-08 05:26:54 AM
2 votes:
If you're a teacher who's "extroverted" and who "plays to extroverts" and who is having an increasing problem with "introverts,"  you might just be trying too hard to be something nobody needs.
2013-02-08 05:20:56 AM
2 votes:

MayoSlather: I tend to believe extroverted speaking is vastly overrated anyways, and is a huge inefficiency in the business world. Introverts don't require and are annoyed by endless presentations and meetings that are often 90% fluff, and many extroverts feel the same way but seemingly can't help themselves..

Instead of trying to force introverts into an extrovert world, the extrovert world be better suited to bend towards being more introverted. Think first before engaging in endless prattle.


This is why industry prefers introverts.

I'm against psychological profiling in the workplace, but I once was forced to be on a project team for one of those team building sessions where "we absolutely aren't profiling and judging you with this Myers Briggs exam, we're just showing diversity," when they were absolutely collecting MB types to judge employees for advancement and retention.

Industry relies on productive team efforts in projects and administration. This takes meetings. Project managers hate having to tell the attention whores to STFU and stop thinking out loud -- they want people who formulate thoughts quietly and don't have a need for the spotlight.

It takes just a second to prompt a team member's input. It takes forever to get a roomful of extroverts to shut their mouths and stop competing for attention.
2013-02-08 05:02:16 AM
2 votes:

Serious Black: cptjeff: Lenny_da_Hog: I'm rock-solid introvert on the scale. I do just fine giving lectures and leading project meetings, but when I'm not leading, I'm quiet until and unless my input is required. Competing for attention is not a required job skill.

This isn't about competing for attention- this is about learning how to not sound like an idiot when your input is required.

If you force an introvert to speak during a class discussion before they have had time to put together a coherent thought in their head, you will make them sound like an idiot. Example: Mitt Romney's "The trees are the right height" when talking about his home state, or his "Lemon, wet, good" in describing his lemonade. I completely identify with making those kinds of stupid statements because I make them all the time when I have to speak before thinking it through. It's simply a function of the inward projection that introverts naturally do.



I tend to believe extroverted speaking is vastly overrated anyways, and is a huge inefficiency in the business world. Introverts don't require and are annoyed by endless presentations and meetings that are often 90% fluff, and many extroverts feel the same way but seemingly can't help themselves..

Instead of trying to force introverts into an extrovert world, the extrovert world be better suited to bend towards being more introverted. Think first before engaging in endless prattle.
2013-02-08 04:49:59 AM
2 votes:

cptjeff: Lenny_da_Hog: I'm rock-solid introvert on the scale. I do just fine giving lectures and leading project meetings, but when I'm not leading, I'm quiet until and unless my input is required. Competing for attention is not a required job skill.

This isn't about competing for attention- this is about learning how to not sound like an idiot when your input is required.


That's not what she's grading on. Her requirement is that input is required at all times. She's not posing questions and asking an individual to respond coherently. She's instead leaving it to the class to compete for floor-time and judging them on their ability to hold the floor.

She says she's preparing them for a world that won't stop talking and making them self-assert. It doesn't even sound like she's moderating, leading, or prompting quieter students for their input. She's making them compete.
2013-02-08 04:48:53 AM
2 votes:

optional: The article was basically correct. Communicating with others is simply a survival skill.

Doesn't mean you have to communicate all the time, but you need to know how.


Huge gap between that and being graded on speaking up constantly in class.

I was bright, could give answers often, etc. But if you call on me to give an answer, even when I give a great response, I don't hear myself, I don't really think a lot about the responses from other people, and it takes a few minutes to settle back into a mental space where I'm actually learning information well.

The more a teacher tries to make me show everyone what I'm learning, the less I learn.

Extroverted teacher in the article is an asshole who clearly doesn't understand how introverts actually work. We aren't quiet because we're shy, we're quiet because passively observing is how we learn best.
2013-02-08 04:43:41 AM
2 votes:

cptjeff: Lenny_da_Hog: I'm rock-solid introvert on the scale. I do just fine giving lectures and leading project meetings, but when I'm not leading, I'm quiet until and unless my input is required. Competing for attention is not a required job skill.

This isn't about competing for attention- this is about learning how to not sound like an idiot when your input is required.


If you force an introvert to speak during a class discussion before they have had time to put together a coherent thought in their head, you will make them sound like an idiot. Example: Mitt Romney's "The trees are the right height" when talking about his home state, or his "Lemon, wet, good" in describing his lemonade. I completely identify with making those kinds of stupid statements because I make them all the time when I have to speak before thinking it through. It's simply a function of the inward projection that introverts naturally do.
2013-02-08 04:38:28 AM
2 votes:

cptjeff: Class participation grades are not dependent on loudness or quantity of comments. Unless the teacher is incompetent, class participation grades are based on how well you make your case, not how often you make your case. This really isn't the evil you seem to think it is.


She hasn't said that. She is grading on participation, not quality of participation. She's grading assertiveness in an English class.

She doesn't want to know if the individual understands how Pip changed -- that requires testing. She's grading on how assertive you are in leading the discussion on how Pip changed, and it sounds like she's putting a lot of weight on that.
2013-02-08 04:00:08 AM
2 votes:
It's not that some of us are unable to talk to most people, it's that we don't bloody want to.
2013-02-08 03:45:42 AM
2 votes:

cptjeff: Lenny_da_Hog: If this teacher were teaching public speech or the like, I could see her point.

She's taking it upon herself as an ENGLISH teacher to grade on social interaction, just because she thinks the students might need it at some point. That shouldn't be her concern.

Oh, get over yourself, life skills aren't confined to any one class. Teaching students to be full and well rounded individuals is hardly some great evil. Learning argumentation and how to defend an argument most certainly IS an element of english class, and doing using those skills in oral form is a rather necessary skill in life.


I missed where it was a debate class.

English is required for continued education. Debate isn't. Neither is public speech or fashion. A participation component is just a competition for attention whores, and ignores good teaching principles that say, "different students learn the same content differently."
2013-02-08 03:30:17 AM
2 votes:
If this teacher were teaching public speech or the like, I could see her point.

She's taking it upon herself as an ENGLISH teacher to grade on social interaction, just because she thinks the students might need it at some point. That shouldn't be her concern.
2013-02-08 02:52:39 AM
2 votes:

Xexi: fisker: These are the kind of kids that shoot up schools, right?

I hope you're joking; the inter webs are notorious for hiding sarcasm in forum threads.

/INTJ


I love threads in fark where people start pulling out personality types, INTP and INTJ are hilariously overrepresented here. I guess internet forums late at night are an INTx flystrip. Which, well, fits.

/INTP
2013-02-08 02:37:38 AM
2 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Introverts just want to be left alone. When something is worth saying, we say it.


THIS
2013-02-08 02:05:59 AM
2 votes:
Let's homogenize! If a kid is introverted, thoughtful, slower to answer, more careful in his/her responses, let's get rid of that nonsense with a quickness. Nothing great in our foundation was ever built on that. Individuality is for communists. No great person in history has spent hours or days even in quiet contemplation or taken time to consider the proper response. Let's spit that stuff out as fast as we can because faster is better!
2013-02-08 02:03:35 AM
2 votes:
I love the argument that introverts need to learn to deal with the real world. It seems to me that the opposite is true; extroverts are always busy talking and never getting any work done. Not just that, but introverts tend to interview well because they know the appropriate time to speak up. They just don't need to jibber-jabber all day long.
2013-02-08 01:40:35 AM
2 votes:
The article was basically correct. Communicating with others is simply a survival skill.

Doesn't mean you have to communicate all the time, but you need to know how.
2013-02-08 01:24:53 AM
2 votes:

pion: As a kid, I was an introvert (still am), but I was also the smartest kid in my classes. So I had no problem with speaking up. And I agree that the middle of the pack introverts need to be encouraged to engage in class discussion.


I was also an introvert and the smartest kid in my class (school was small). However, I never wanted to answer questions because I always hoped one of my friends would answer. Its hard to say why. I think I felt ashamed -- whether on their behalf or of myself I don't know. I hated it when I would inevitably get called on and everyone would glare at me with that "good job, smart alec" look. I would put on a fake tone of uncertainty when responding to try to smooth things over.

This built in some really, really bad classroom habits that carried over to when I went to university and all of a sudden everyone else was super smart as well and much more eager to please than I was.
2013-02-08 01:21:36 AM
2 votes:
Maybe I still don't want to talk to you.
2013-02-08 12:42:07 AM
2 votes:
My son has the opposite problem. He's a huge extrovert. Needs to learn to sit quietly and wait his turn more in class.

/top of his class in grades, though
//proud parent mode activated
2013-02-08 01:51:55 PM
1 votes:
Introverted Kids Need to Learn to Speak Up at School

Wow, way to oversimplify the problem doucheauthor. What's your next article going to be? Depressed people need to learn to cheer up? People with eating disorders need to learn to eat properly? Brilliant!
2013-02-08 01:49:53 PM
1 votes:
Extraverts need to learn when to shut the fark up.

I don't often start conversations with stranger because I really don't care about what they think or have to say and I assume others feel the same way about me.

I don't talk to you because you probably don't give a shiat
2013-02-08 12:19:18 PM
1 votes:

Target Builder: Or I can ask them to open their mouths, turn on their brains, and share their ideas with the rest of the class. I opt for a happy medium, and require a little bit of both.

So basically she
assumes that if someone isn't talking they're not thinking. Great.



That's what many extroverts and "Type A" personalities think about the rest of us, IMHO.
2013-02-08 11:02:09 AM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: If this teacher were teaching public speech or the like, I could see her point.

She's taking it upon herself as an ENGLISH teacher to grade on social interaction, just because she thinks the students might need it at some point. That shouldn't be her concern.


Meanwhile, the introvert can actually sit still and voluntarily reads for pleasure thus attaining superior reading comprehension and composition skills.
2013-02-08 10:19:53 AM
1 votes:
Also, succinct != introvert.  I'm sorry it takes you 5 minutes of babbling to then only sort-of get your point across.  I can do it in 15 seconds.  Doesn't mean I am an introvert, I'm just efficient in my speech.
2013-02-08 08:18:24 AM
1 votes:
I've encountered the practice of being assigned a grade throughout my school career: elemenary school through grad school.  It seemed that in most cases, the emphasis was on quantity of verbage and not on quality.  High school was especially bad for that.  I have the impression that teachers use class participation as a tool to turn the class into a bull session, so that they won't have to do any work.

Or, since it was an all-girls' school,would those be heifer sessions?
2013-02-08 08:02:43 AM
1 votes:
Don't worry, MegaPharmCo is working diligently with MegaHealthInsCo to turn introvertism into a diagnosis which can be only cured with a twice daily pill.  It shouldn't be too many more years before it get included in the autism rainbow.

They're doing all for the good of those very few poor poor upper middle class moms who are currently left without a child on medication.  Because those moms are desperately in need to one up their neighbors with their Munchausenism.
2013-02-08 06:50:56 AM
1 votes:

MayoSlather: Mazzic518: Hermit Tard: I am always amazed in these threads how many farkers were the smartest kids in the class

God damned MENSA meeting in here

And they always feel they need to mention it. I'd argue anyone can work hard and get good grades, but it takes a lot more skill to figure out what the bare minimum of work can be done to get a passing grade. You know how many A's on finals I had to pull out my ass just to pass with C-? It's not easy being this lazy.


I was the opposite. I would crush the first few exams and papers in a class and then figure out what was the bare minimum I could do to keep the A. My most virtuoso performance at this was physics my sophomore year of undergrad. We were graded on three tests and a final exam. I got high A's on the first two and a low A on the third. Figured out I could get an A for the semester with a B-, and I hit that mark perfectly! I had the lowest final exam score of anyone who got an A in the course. I was so proud of myself that day.
2013-02-08 06:39:39 AM
1 votes:

Mazzic518: Hermit Tard: I am always amazed in these threads how many farkers were the smartest kids in the class

God damned MENSA meeting in here


And they always feel they need to mention it. I'd argue anyone can work hard and get good grades, but it takes a lot more skill to figure out what the bare minimum of work can be done to get a passing grade. You know how many A's on finals I had to pull out my ass just to pass with C-? It's not easy being this lazy.
2013-02-08 06:33:40 AM
1 votes:

cptjeff: Xexi: fisker: These are the kind of kids that shoot up schools, right?

I hope you're joking; the inter webs are notorious for hiding sarcasm in forum threads.

/INTJ

I love threads in fark where people start pulling out personality types, INTP and INTJ are hilariously overrepresented here. I guess internet forums late at night are an INTx flystrip. Which, well, fits.

/INTP


Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me too. You can take time to write and rewrite and rewrite some more before you actually click the button to add your comment. It's a great medium for introverts. I think that's why I generally prefer texting to talking on the phone too.
2013-02-08 05:32:20 AM
1 votes:
Or her.  Whoever the hell wrote the article, fark them hard, but for god's sake make them be quiet about it.
2013-02-08 05:30:50 AM
1 votes:
The power of introverts:

upload.wikimedia.org

(click pic for TED talk)
2013-02-08 05:06:14 AM
1 votes:
I can speak up, and public speeches are not so hard anymore.  But they wear me out so I save my words for when I want to say something.   Once I know everyone in the crowd I am speaking to I feel better, but it has not been easy.  I still would rather not go out in public.  I still avoid large groups of people, especially large groups of people I do not know.
2013-02-08 05:05:38 AM
1 votes:
So it's somehow bad that I'm smart enough to know this: every thought that goes through my head doesn't need to come out of my mouth.
2013-02-08 04:31:44 AM
1 votes:
Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".[4] Some popular writers have characterized introverts as people whose energy tends to expand through reflection and dwindle during interaction.[5] This is similar to Jung's view, although he focused on psychic energy rather than physical energy. Few modern conceptions make this distinction.

The common modern perception is that introverts tend to be more reserved and less outspoken in groups. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, using computers, hiking and fishing. The archetypal artist, writer, sculptor, engineer, composer and inventor are all highly introverted. An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though he or she may enjoy interactions with close friends. Trust is usually an issue of significance: a virtue of utmost importance to an introvert is choosing a worthy companion. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate, especially observed in developing children and adolescents.[6] They are more analytical before speaking.[7] Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement, introversion having even been defined by some in terms of a preference for a quiet, more minimally stimulating environment.[8]

Introversion is not seen as being identical to shy or to being a social outcast. Introverts prefer solitary activities over social ones, whereas shy people (who may be extroverts at heart) avoid social encounters out of fear,[9] and the social outcast has little choice in the matter of his or her solitude.
2013-02-08 04:20:41 AM
1 votes:
I remember my dad drunkenly lecturing me as a kid about how I was an introvert.  I don't think it ever occurred to him that having an alcoholic father might have contributed to that.
2013-02-08 04:15:55 AM
1 votes:

realityraider: This, to me, is the crux of the issue. You're arguing that someone like myself needs conversion therapy, that I am a flawed individual because of the way my brain naturally put thoughts together. That's farking asinine and barbaric. Would you tell someone whose brain and body naturally orient them to being attracted to members of the same sex that they need conversion therapy?

 If you dont agree about a bias against introverts, then it makes sense that you think Im hating on you and gay people.  The only people I consider flawed (who cares what I think?) are parents that shirk their sacred timeless duties.  Should bad parents be wrung through conversion therapy?  If conversion therapy is in any way bad in your mind, I agree with you that no one should be converted.  If a parent just sucks compared to fully caring parents, what do you do besides publish articles like the one we re all commenting on?  I dont f in know!


Going back to part of your original post, you said "The author is reiterating that parents are responsible for their kids' behavior." Introversion isn't a behavior. Introversion is simply a part of my identity that, try as I might, I will never be able to change. I cannot make myself be energized by hanging out in large groups, going to parties, and talking with tons of different people all night long. I can fake it for a little bit, but it's incredibly exhausting to do so, and I need a lot of time afterward to recharge. And there are a number of people who are like me, including some incredibly successful people. Bill Gates is an introvert. By all accounts, Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein were introverts. Abraham Lincoln was as well. But if you had forced those people to conform to a misguided belief that extroversion is ideal rather than just one aspect of how people build thoughts, we may not have modern calculus and physics, the personal computer, or one of our greatest presidents ever.

If you want to get introverts to engage in class and participate more, you have to make it easier for them. Small groups worked a lot better than full-class discussions to relieve the pressure on my brain. When I was given reading assignments, it was incredibly beneficial for me to have some food-for-thought kind of questions to mull over before I got to class so I had time to process the material. If they decided to ask questions of the entire class spontaneously, I did best when the teacher gave us a minute of time to process the question and build a coherent thought before we launched into discussion. These are not hard things to do, but a lot of teachers don't do them.
2013-02-08 04:07:20 AM
1 votes:

cptjeff: Lenny_da_Hog: Her introverted students will be *able* to compete with people who love attention, they'll just be more stressed out by it for an entire semester/year for no good reason.

This is where you're wrong. There is a pretty damn good reason- so they can learn how to argue their point in a group context, and do it well. That's not something that you just magically know how to do with no practice whatsoever. Even if you know the subject matter, you're not going to be very successful in that corporate job if you come across as a bumbling moron who can't string two words together in a meeting.


You don't know what you're talking about. Do you think introverts are *incapable* of speaking publicly? That social aversion disorder is the same as introversion? Do you even know what an introvert is?
2013-02-08 03:51:01 AM
1 votes:

ladyfortuna: Side note, a wonderful cure for 'introvert' is working retail sales. I learned how to talk to just about anyone doing sales, which helped a ton when I joined the Army and met 1000 strangers...


It doesn't "cure" you of introversion. It just drains introverts more than it does extroverts. I'm able to work retail sales, I just don't *like* to.

Her introverted students will be *able* to compete with people who love attention, they'll just be more stressed out by it for an entire semester/year for no good reason.

You could put an extrovert in a closet by himself and force him to read metaphysics all day, and he'd survive. He just wouldn't like it.
2013-02-08 03:46:28 AM
1 votes:
I hate my voice. It is naturally low and soft. If I try to speak loud, it requires extra effort. I heard myself in a voice recording, I didn't like it at all. I hate my voice, I'll stick to writing.
2013-02-08 03:38:08 AM
1 votes:

starsrift: They gave all the extroverted kids Ritalin and such because "they have ADHD". Teachers can't deal with active kids anymore. If they don't sit down and shut up, there has to be something wrong with them!

Ohhhh no, now all the kids are sitting down and shutting up!


Clearly, you don't have up close and personal experience with ADD/ADHD... It's not about that, it's about 'ooh shiney' and four hours later you're like wait... I was supposed to do that thing...

Side note, a wonderful cure for 'introvert' is working retail sales. I learned how to talk to just about anyone doing sales, which helped a ton when I joined the Army and met 1000 strangers...
2013-02-08 03:24:09 AM
1 votes:

Transubstantive: I get it, but introversion really is a problem if you want to succeed emotionally and professionally in our culture.  Just take a look at Reddit's foreveralone subreddit to see how these kind of people can end up.


Yeah.

That's why major industries try to sneak Myers-Briggs testing into "team meetings" to identify introverts, particularly INTJs, for upper management paths in their administrations.
2013-02-08 03:07:44 AM
1 votes:
oi47.tinypic.com
The trouble with Scotland...
2013-02-08 03:00:20 AM
1 votes:
cptjeff:I love threads in fark where people start pulling out personality types, INTP and INTJ are hilariously overrepresented here. I guess internet forums late at night are an INTx flystrip. Which, well, fits.

/INTP


Hey, we need to get our daily interaction somehow!
2013-02-08 02:56:51 AM
1 votes:

Serious Black: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Introverts just want to be left alone. When something is worth saying, we say it.

The problem in situations like this teacher is talking about is that extroverts often monopolize time to say things because that's the way that they form coherent thoughts. It can be hard for an introvert to put together a coherent thought in that kind of environment when they're constantly getting new information to synthesize into the whole.


Then we make it socially acceptable to smack the loud ones.

/If you need me, I'll be in my Unabomber-style shack
2013-02-08 02:46:27 AM
1 votes:

Seth'n'Spectrum: pion: As a kid, I was an introvert (still am), but I was also the smartest kid in my classes. So I had no problem with speaking up. And I agree that the middle of the pack introverts need to be encouraged to engage in class discussion.

I was also an introvert and the smartest kid in my class (school was small). However, I never wanted to answer questions because I always hoped one of my friends would answer. Its hard to say why. I think I felt ashamed -- whether on their behalf or of myself I don't know. I hated it when I would inevitably get called on and everyone would glare at me with that "good job, smart alec" look. I would put on a fake tone of uncertainty when responding to try to smooth things over.

This built in some really, really bad classroom habits that carried over to when I went to university and all of a sudden everyone else was super smart as well and much more eager to please than I was.


Actually, as an introvert, I agree with this teacher. During middle and high school, I was in somewhat unusual (and very different) educational environments, but they both very much forced me to interact in the classroom. By the time I hit college, I was far better prepared than the vast majority of my classmates to participate in class discussions. After having gotten used to it in lower levels, I was used to it, and it came completely naturally. Being better prepared than my classmates to participate in discussions helped me in college, and it's helped me in life.

Introverted or not, you need to participate, especially in controlled settings that serve as a safe place to learn how. Participating builds self confidence in the future, and you'll feel much more comfortable jumping into a conversation at a meeting or a networking event, or whatever else. Suck it up, they're life skills and you need them, you can always dive back into your book later.
2013-02-08 02:43:19 AM
1 votes:

maram500: Serious Black: Need_MindBleach: How long until Introversion shows up on the DSM?

Introversion is not a mental disorder, so never.

Neither is washing your hands often, but it'll be in the DSM-V under "OCD."


Well, there's washing your hands often (which is a thing you have to do in the food industry - Handle eggs? Wash hands. Handle meat? Wash hands.  Handle trash? Wash hands.  Handle dirty dishes? Wash hands.  Touch hair or face? Wash hands. - otherwise you'll get a customer sick, your boss sued, and yourself fired), and then there's fixating on hand-washing to Lady Macbeth levels (which may indicate OCD).

Similarly, there's introversion, where people get their energy from the self, and then there's social phobia.
2013-02-08 02:39:34 AM
1 votes:
i677.photobucket.com

Hanako disagrees.
2013-02-08 02:28:45 AM
1 votes:

Need_MindBleach: How long until Introversion shows up on the DSM?


Introversion is not a mental disorder, so never.
2013-02-08 02:26:28 AM
1 votes:
2013-02-08 01:59:26 AM
1 votes:

KrispyKritter: Why the hell would you want to turn kids upside down to begin with?



farm8.staticflickr.com
2013-02-08 01:58:33 AM
1 votes:

Ivo Shandor: Extroverts need to learn to shut the hell up unless they have something worth saying.


^
2013-02-08 01:37:06 AM
1 votes:
Why the hell would you want to turn kids upside down to begin with?
2013-02-08 01:17:40 AM
1 votes:

Transubstantive: I get it, but introversion really is a problem if you want to succeed emotionally and professionally in our culture.  Just take a look at Reddit's foreveralone subreddit to see how these kind of people can end up.


submitting things they see three days later on fark?
2013-02-08 01:16:45 AM
1 votes:

pion: As a kid, I was an introvert (still am), but I was also the smartest kid in my classes.  So I had no problem with speaking up.  And I agree that the middle of the pack introverts need to be encouraged to engage in class discussion.

However, participation grades need to focus on quality of participation, not quantity.


I was the same way.  I think I was more introverted toward my peers but not to teachers and such.
 
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