Subby didn't understand the program maybe when she goes to college she can do some learning.

You have to work at least 30 hours a week - you know, like in a JOB.  If your income isn't high enough, they will help on the loans.

This is not a get a refund if no job program.

quickdraw: OMG stop the presses. Subby wrote a slightly misleading headline.

/lulz

By "slightly misleading" you mean completely wrong, okay.

and it doesn't matter if your job is actually pointless and is miserable.  cause it's money it's a JOB!!

Yes this is dog: log_jammin: tenpoundsofcheese: quickdraw: OMG stop the presses. Subby wrote a slightly misleading headline.

/lulz

By "slightly misleading" you mean completely wrong, okay.

thank god we have a pillar of truth like you to point that out to us.

Can't we just be happy he didn't blame Obama for a change?

Please!  How is this NOT Obama's fault??

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Graduates must work 30 hours per week

So, having to take a part time job because you're stuck in the cycle of "need three years experience TO GET three years experience" and the employer keeps you under a cap to avoid paying for healthcare and retirement costs doesn't count? Good thing I'm the only recent graduate in that boat then.

To me, it is somewhat ironic that a lower income would allow employers to stiff employees on secondary benefits. I guess I can understand why in terms in the sense that what your employer pays you is a reflection of how much value your employer has in you, and those secondary benefits (healthcare and retirement contributions) are an additional way to show that the employer values the work the employee puts into the company. And while that threshold is lower than it needs to be in the point I'm about to make, you would think the threshold would be the point that the company no longer offers those benefits, because the base salary is enough for the individual to purchase his own insurance and save for retirement without assistance. That is, it makes sense from the point that the company wants to maintain a valuable worker in which they've invested training and other resources. It does not make sense from the point of view the society, where you ostensibly want all citizens to enjoy a basic, quality standard of living (at least prior to the consideration of any uncontrollable hardships).

Of course, something something small business and whatnot. Of course, it is not the job of the employer to worry about the health of the society - although they should, more money flowing around means more money going everywhere... and then flowing out again. (I admit that might be a bit of ridiculous premise, actually.)

Of course... there's also the question of whether or not it is beneficial to maintain that sort of quality of living. Our morality says so, because we should always choose to promote caring and ease over neglect and hardship, lest one be branded a sociopath. Whether that is actually true or not is something that we have no data from which to extrapolate, because our history (human history) has always been rife with hardship. I suppose it is also an irrelevant question since there will never be a point in which we as a society (or our chosen leaders) will have to debate the merits of either philosophy in itself. Rather, it will always be over whether we can afford to supply those benefits, or whether they are even effective, rather than whether they are objectively beneficial.

tenpoundsofcheese: Subby didn't understand the program maybe when she goes to college she can do some learning.

You have to work at least 30 hours a week - you know, like in a JOB.  If your income isn't high enough, they will help on the loans.

This is not a get a refund if no job program.

Actually, it's better than that: it's a "get a refund if you end up with a crappy job" program.

@ niveras
Yes, it's entirely idiotic for employers of any size to have to take care of health insurance provision and administration. Think how much that drains the life out of the economy; and how it forces the job market into stagnation (People who need health insurance forced to keep jobs with crappy employers & etc.).
By not taking up this job, the government is forcing this expense onto the business community.
I don't know why everyone just goes along with this.
Health insurance should be portable, not job dependent.

/Yes, subby needs remedial education.

So, colleges then select the students who can be successful, not those who can pay.
And then have some obligation/ support for actually helping them land jobs.

You'd think that'd be obvious, especially since some times degrees are ranked based on the job level/pay graduates get.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Graduates must work 30 hours per week

So, having to take a part time job because you're stuck in the cycle of "need three years experience TO GET three years experience" and the employer keeps you under a cap to avoid paying for healthcare and retirement costs doesn't count? Good thing I'm the only recent graduate in that boat then.

Winner winner chicken dinner!  Your option is the most common, although there is a strong push for third party freelance agents these days as well, so you are your own business.  I see this a lot in the tech industry and more and more in the semi skilled sector as well.  Best of luck to all of us as companies find new ways to screw us and a generation that should have retired 20 years ago is still hanging on and couple that with drained resources in the form of family members long outliving their earlier kin and you have them burning thru the goodies in the will so that folks have to sell the house for the burial and leaving little in the way of gravy from the previous generations.  It is kinda like the Ghostbusters Twinkie but scarier.

The university/college system has turned into nothing but a for-profit monopoly that has encouraged a degree as a pre-requisite for just about any decent-paying job, not just professions such as science, medicine and law, even when all that is required is perhaps a few months training and OJT/ (Why do you think so many people buy degrees and then get away with it, perhaps for their entire carreers? It's because you never actually needed a degree in the first place.)
As a result, fees have skyrocketed to the point where social mobility has become a joke in soceity.

in theory it sounds good, but as the article mentions, "uncertain job market"  what happens when the area of study you go into has no jobs?  will this still apply if the grad has to settle for 30 hours a week (if they are lucky) at WalMart or Mickey D's?

No one going to make a crack at the Right-Wing education? Bueller? Bueller?

Resident Muslim: So, colleges then select the students who can be successful, not those who can pay.
And then have some obligation/ support for actually helping them land jobs.

You'd think that'd be obvious, especially since some times degrees are ranked based on the job level/pay graduates get.

There was a time where colleges didn't accept just anyone, and the advisers actually helped you pick something you could be successful in.

jimmyjackfunk: in theory it sounds good, but as the article mentions, "uncertain job market"  what happens when the area of study you go into has no jobs?  will this still apply if the grad has to settle for 30 hours a week (if they are lucky) at WalMart or Mickey D's?

If you are paying for more than, or even, the basics of living with those jobs with money left over to repay student loans, you are either running a grow-op, moonlighting as a stripper or hooker, or your parents carried out a suicide pact the first time they saw you in your Mickey D's uniform and you got some inheritance money.

kwame: WordyGrrl: It's a "Christian" school, eh? I'm sure they're graduating nothing but STEM majors who are guaranteed entry into the finest companies in the land.

A) it looks like they have a pretty healthy program in the sciences

B) there's no more value to a STEM majors than anything else

BULLshiat!!!!

STEM majors have a much easier time finding a job that someone with a B.A.   I've known many hiring managers that just auto sort the B.A.s into the trash bin because their clients don't want people with B.A.s working on the project either.

kwame: cynicalbastard: The university/college system has turned into nothing but a for-profit monopoly that has encouraged a degree as a pre-requisite for just about any decent-paying job, not just professions such as science, medicine and law, even when all that is required is perhaps a few months training and OJT/ (Why do you think so many people buy degrees and then get away with it, perhaps for their entire carreers? It's because you never actually needed a degree in the first place.)
As a result, fees have skyrocketed to the point where social mobility has become a joke in soceity.

Can you name any public university that has turned a profit in the past 35 years?

I'd love to know how you think universities are "encouraging" the private sector emphasis on higher education.

There's a lot more to a college education than "needing" a degree for a job.  Those other results of higher ed are why people want college graduates.

Your conclusion sentence makes no sense.

C-

It's not the university itself that pulls the profit.  It's the administrators and the textbook publishers that seem to rake in cash far in excess of what they should be getting.  If you're high up in a popular sports program you can pull down quite a bit of money and be all but above the law too, it seems.

Arumat: kwame: cynicalbastard: The university/college system has turned into nothing but a for-profit monopoly that has encouraged a degree as a pre-requisite for just about any decent-paying job, not just professions such as science, medicine and law, even when all that is required is perhaps a few months training and OJT/ (Why do you think so many people buy degrees and then get away with it, perhaps for their entire carreers? It's because you never actually needed a degree in the first place.)
As a result, fees have skyrocketed to the point where social mobility has become a joke in soceity.

Can you name any public university that has turned a profit in the past 35 years?

I'd love to know how you think universities are "encouraging" the private sector emphasis on higher education.

There's a lot more to a college education than "needing" a degree for a job.  Those other results of higher ed are why people want college graduates.

Your conclusion sentence makes no sense.

C-

It's not the university itself that pulls the profit.  It's the administrators and the textbook publishers that seem to rake in cash far in excess of what they should be getting.  If you're high up in a popular sports program you can pull down quite a bit of money and be all but above the law too, it seems.

Precisely. The tenured staff at any college have become a bunch of whiny, overpaid jokes. Unfortunately the joke is on us.

Here's one prime example:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/131576-a-lesson-in-big-earnings-at - dalhousie">http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/131576-a-lesson-in-big- earnings-at- dalhousie

These guys are living off the fat of the land and at the same time the university is screaming poverty at the government and wanting more handouts.

kwame: Girion47: STEM majors have a much easier time finding a job that someone with a B.A.

You're wrong, but regardless, I didn't say anything about the ease of finding a job.  I said there is no more value to a STEM degree than any other.

What's the median starting salary for an electrical engineering graduate compared to a Sociology graduate from the same university? You're expecting me to believe that you think they're the same?

We need to stop equating college / university education as job training.  You go to school to learn something.  Not to get a piece of paper that gets you a job.

Nuc_E: We need to stop equating college / university education as job training.  You go to school to learn something.  Not to get a piece of paper that gets you a job.

Unfortunately, even when it's not needed, that piece of paper is considered a sine qua non for even landing  a job in the first place.

kwame: cynicalbastard: The tenured staff at any college have become a bunch of whiny, overpaid jokes.

I hope you're just trolling.  Otherwise that ridiculously over-generalized comment makes you look like a complete idiot.

Maybe I was over-generalising. But a heckuva lot of them are. The song "I got mine" comes to mind here.

They don't seem to specify how much they will help with loan payments if you end up underpaid.  Maybe they kick like $100 your way?   Or enough to cover the interest?

The sad thing is, however kind this gesture, it won't make a dent for the mathematically illiterate kids who borrow 100 grand or like whatever it says on the paper they barely remember signing.  No level of reform or assistance is going to keep them from being screwed for a very long time.

Those kids really have no choice but to occupy somewhere and write blog posts about how they have "dyscalculia."

The basket industry is going to boom!!

Remember when University or College was about getting an education? Advanced learning?

Instead of being a farm team for employers?

I do. You don't. You're living with student debts you'll never pay off and how's your Mama's basement looking about now?

PS - I paid for my education working my way through. Costliest Couse I ever paid was $65 for the semester. And it's a Doctorate btw. Before you get all huffy, it t'weren't me who screwed you. It was that centralized federal government a lot of you seem to lavish wet kisses on. That Daddy who's supposed to give you everything is giving it to you good and hard.

Clemkadidlefark: Remember when University or College was about getting an education? Advanced learning?

Instead of being a farm team for employers?

I do. You don't. You're living with student debts you'll never pay off and how's your Mama's basement looking about now?

PS - I paid for my education working my way through. Costliest Couse I ever paid was $65 for the semester. And it's a Doctorate btw. Before you get all huffy, it t'weren't me who screwed you. It was that centralized federal government a lot of you seem to lavish wet kisses on. That Daddy who's supposed to give you everything is giving it to you good and hard.

I am going to guess you are all of 22.  Everyone thinks they are cool the first time they get a salaried job. You might as well go lease an Acura and show off your academic accomplishments lol.  Most zone reps do.