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(NPR)   NPR asks the question: Are hunters committing murder?   (npr.org) divider line 308
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8820 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2013 at 8:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-07 09:58:05 PM
Kahlil Gibran, "On Eating and Drinking:"

Would that you could live on the fragrance of the earth, and like an air plant be sustained by the light.
But since you must kill to eat, and rob the newly born of its mother's milk to quench your thirst, let it then be an act of worship.
And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in man.

When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,
"By the same power that slays you, I too am slain; and I too shall be consumed.
For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.
Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven."
 
2013-02-07 09:58:18 PM
NPR asks the question

Actually, a guest blogger asks this, but I suppose it won't stop everyone from jerking themselves off about the "liberal media".
 
2013-02-07 09:58:29 PM

The Southern Dandy: KidneyStone: BronyMedic: It's not murder if you're intending to use as much of the animal as possible in tasty, tasty recipes. So remember that next time your city has a homeless problem.

/I'm not a...hah..."SERIAL" killer....

I've not seen any coyote recipes.

Killing coyotes is like killing rats.  Big big rats.


Same with deer.
 
2013-02-07 09:59:22 PM
"You can't have the word EAT without MEAT ya farking hippy!"

~Scott H. Biram
 
2013-02-07 09:59:46 PM

Mikey1969: Short answer: No

Feeling this way, it's hard for me to understand the pull to hunt animalsunless the meat is actually needed to feed one's family, or the hunting is managed and results in good outcomes for the animal population in question. (This can be the case when high population numbers would otherwise consign individuals to starvation and slow, miserable deaths).

A: You don't need to hunt because you're too poor to feed your family. Some people choose to hunt because it's cheaper. Some chose to hunt because they can get more meat at once, so they aren't trying to buy a side of beef. Others do it because the meat isn't pumped full of hormones, fed GenMod feed, and has less fat.

B: Hunting IS managed, it's why we have seasons and limits. This isn't just a whim, this is to manage the populations and lessen then instances of starvation.

C: If hunting is murder, so is slaughtering the cows for distribution to your local grocery store.


I'd like to add, venison and rabbit are tasty, and venison at least isn't really commercially available as far as I know except in specialty markets maybe. Same with other critters. I don't however advocate for trophy hunting; I think that's disgusting.

Plus, many hunting seasons and limits are based on managing the overall species population too; I know in parts of NY in years past, the DEC has authorized bait and shoot because of deer overpopulation. Frankly I'm a lot happier knowing they're not starving to death slowly in those situations. The only big issue I have with hunting on the policy side is 'managing' predators because they're encroaching on human areas or livestock. We've seen those stories here on Fark of course. It just seems ridiculous to me that people think we're so far above the ecosystems and that we should completely maintain the status quo...

Also on the beef thing, the second to last cow my in-laws had butchered was one I fed daily for periods of time when they were out of town. I was on a first name basis with that guy, and he was delicious.
 
2013-02-07 09:59:57 PM
Well I messed that one up.

The word MEAT without EAT.

Ugh, I suck.
 
2013-02-07 10:01:07 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Well I messed that one up.

The word MEAT without EAT.

Ugh, I suck.


TWSS
 
2013-02-07 10:03:13 PM
Since the author concludes that the answer is "no", and pretty much hints at that conclusion on technical terms in the second paragraph, the headline is sensationalistic at best maybe morally dishonest at worst.
 
2013-02-07 10:04:26 PM

Omahawg: badhatharry: Sit down NPR, I have some bad news. The cows, pigs, chickens, and fish in the supermarket did not commit suicide.

at least the frogs get wheelchairs

well....don't they?

[coreybradshaw.files.wordpress.com image 565x420]


nmisscommentor.com

Not always
 
2013-02-07 10:06:38 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Kahlil Gibran, "On Eating and Drinking:"

Would that you could live on the fragrance of the earth, and like an air plant be sustained by the light.
But since you must kill to eat, and rob the newly born of its mother's milk to quench your thirst, let it then be an act of worship.
And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in man.

When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,
"By the same power that slays you, I too am slain; and I too shall be consumed.
For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.
Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven."


Favorited for quoting Gibran.
 
2013-02-07 10:07:41 PM
KidneyStone:
I've not seen any coyote recipes.


I have one! And when I was stationed in Korea I saw dogs hanging in the marketplace. So I was going to try it when I shot one this past season. But it smelled so bad that I just couldn't go through with it.
 
2013-02-07 10:08:00 PM

BarkingUnicorn: taurusowner: skylabdown: Once I heard someone make this point:  (I'm paraphrasing)

Is there anything more illegitimate than having one's lifestyle regulated by those who have no idea what that lifestyle is about?  How just is it to have those ignorant of an issue make decisions limiting the rights of those with absolute knowledge of an issue?

One recent example is the recent gun-grabber movement populated by those "against" the 2nd ammendment who don't even know the basic nomenclature.  They don't understand the difference between a clip and a magazine.  They have never fired a weapon before.  They think guns are "scary."  Yet, these folks are the ones trying to limit the rights of folks who have been brought up with guns being as ubiquitous as any other tool in the garage.

Hunters also deal with this problem.  Folks who have never hunted, never killed what they eat... People who think meat comes wrapped in styrofoam and plastic wrap... people who have never dirtied their own hands with the blood of animals they eat every day.  THESE people are the ones who feel qualified to tell hunters what is right and what is wrong.

Much like the author of this article.

This is and probably will remain the most correct and sensible statement in this entire thread.

Except it also applies to farking a six year-old.


not entirely... as we were all once six years old, and can at least on some level realize that "being farked" at that age is not something you would have been able to consent to.
 
2013-02-07 10:08:20 PM

nigeman: I know this is a touchy subject but here is my 2 cents.

Hunters love the kill. The idea of taking another life, the final kicking of the animal is all part of the charm, otherwise why would they do it? Getting food isn't the answer. It's the fun of it.

Also I think hunters claiming that video games makes people violent is absurd.

that's all folks


Yes that is true.  When I was a teenager it was an absolutely heart pounding level of excitement.  There's a reason they have the term called "buck fever".  It's when you become so excited at the presence of the deer that you aren't able to function appropriately to shoot.  However I am older now.  I don't really hunt much and not much of a gun fanatic but I do own a shotgun and I do go pheasant hunting a couple times per year.  My perspective now is I had a nice afternoon, getting good exercise in nature on public nature land whose only reason it isn't plowed up is so that I could be there.  Meanwhile dozens of species of plants and animals go undisturbed and flourish.  The pheasant itself is a foreign species native to Asia.  We are only allowed to shoot the roosters which has zero effect on reproduction and population since they are not monogamous and in fact studies show a 5 or 10 to 1 hen to rooster ratio is preferable.  I shoot on average 5 or so a year.  I paid in taxes (license fees and ammo tax) probably $50 for that privilege and it was a healthy, lean source of protein.  Additionally it tastes like chicken.  Instead of a chicken and wild rice soup it was pheasant and wild rice soup.

In the end I figure what I did was trade the life of a wild animal that lived free and comfortable until the last 5 seconds of its life for that of a pen raised chicken that will not need to be raised and not need to suffer 6 months in a cage with its top beak cut off so it doesn't peck the others while it can barely if at all turn around in the cage.  It is understandable how a vegetarian can be opposed to hunting and quite consistent ethically.  It is not understandable to oppose hunting while eating animals that were raised suffering.  I once had someone who was eating veal tell me they opposed hunting.  I just chuckled.  I refuse to eat veal.

So yes it is disgusting however it would seem that much less meat in general would be consumed and there would be significantly more vegetarians in the world if they had to kill their food.

/has free range laying hens too.
//and bees.  honey bees for delicious honey.
 
2013-02-07 10:09:30 PM

lostcat: "Can hunters and animal advocates talk and listen together about their different ways of thinking through these issues?"

Maybe someplace, but it sure as hell isn't going to happen on Fark.




As I imagine the conversation" Hunter: "OK, I don't object to your not hunting if you don't want to."

Anti: " Great! As long as you don't hunt because I don't want you to."
 
2013-02-07 10:10:32 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Kahlil Gibran, "On Eating and Drinking:"

Would that you could live on the fragrance of the earth, and like an air plant be sustained by the light.
But since you must kill to eat, and rob the newly born of its mother's milk to quench your thirst, let it then be an act of worship.
And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in man.

When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,
"By the same power that slays you, I too am slain; and I too shall be consumed.
For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.
Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven."


There are few poets who can change the mood for me like him.
 
2013-02-07 10:11:15 PM

ladyfortuna: I don't however advocate for trophy hunting; I think that's disgusting


Seconded... Even if someone was trophy hunting and planning on donating the meat, it's still trophy hunting and bothers me as well.
 
2013-02-07 10:13:54 PM

WTF Indeed: Yes. Tasty, tasty murder.


And then we make some tasty Murder Stew!
 
2013-02-07 10:14:17 PM

rev. dave: After getting my first girlfriend at 21, who had a serious animal rights agenda, it was harder to hunt than ever.


The beaver hunting does become more difficult once you are in a committed relationship...
 
2013-02-07 10:14:43 PM
If the animals didn't want to die, they shouldn't be dressed in such sexy, sexy meat.  They brought it on themselves.
 
2013-02-07 10:16:51 PM

The Southern Dandy: ajgeek: Since the definition of murder means killing another human being, then technically no. However, killing anything that isn't going to be used in a functional way "food, clothing, tools" is BLOODY STUPID!

What about killing animals that carry disease, or prey on your pets or livestock and threaten your livelihood?


I mentioned it above, but I can't brain tonight. I did forget exceptions or should have emphasized hunting killing and not self defense or hazard reasons for killing. Sorry.

If confused, please refer to sentence 1.
 
2013-02-07 10:17:28 PM
You step on a spider, cockroach. Swat a housefly or a mosquito.Have a bug zapper on your patio. Murder? Or does it only count if it's a mammal?

Farking stupid question re: the headline.
 
2013-02-07 10:17:30 PM

badhatharry: That's one step away from only going to restaurants so you don't have to cook the dead animals yourself.


You mean like the people who work at NPR?
 
2013-02-07 10:18:56 PM
I like my murdered steak smothered in murder sauce.
 
2013-02-07 10:19:28 PM
is it manslaughter when you run over a squirrel with your powder blue prius?
 
2013-02-07 10:19:36 PM

Nabb1: In many cases, hunting as part of wildlife management helps control the populations of animals whose natural predators have dwindled due to humans. I don't hunt and it's not anything I care to do, but it can serve a legitimate purpose.


Deer have been called "rats with antlers" for a reason. If they are not hunted, the results are hideous.

We also have some introduced animals that shouldn't be here at all. Killing them is performing an ecological service.
 
2013-02-07 10:21:55 PM
NPR asks the question: Are hunters committing murder?

No, just liberals who love CNN and MSNBC like Chris Dorner.

And the SPLC, through it'shiatman, Floyd Corkins.

They are.
 
2013-02-07 10:22:30 PM
Someone a while back posted a pic of one of the planes hitting a tower on 9/11 and Photoshopped a banner being towed by the plane that said Meat is Murder. Wish I had saved that.
 
2013-02-07 10:23:04 PM

Government Fromage: MyRandomName: ajgeek: Since the definition of murder means killing another human being, then technically no. However, killing anything that isn't going to be used in a functional way "food, clothing, tools" is BLOODY STUPID!

You think hunters just kill and leave the carcasses to rot?

I get the feeling a lot of people think this -- that huntersjust go out in the woods and blast away at deer or anything else that happens across their scope.



MANY DO. And please don't try to make up a lie to convince me otherwise. I've spent too much time in the woods to believe otherwise.
 
2013-02-07 10:23:45 PM
Yes, hunting is murder.

In the same way that antibiotics are weapons of mass destruction....
 
2013-02-07 10:26:27 PM

GreenSun: What is the difference between a person who hunts and eats animals and a person who hunts and eats humans?


The fact that we do not kill and eat members of our own species is one of the most commonly accepted ideals that separates us from "animals."  I would submit that this, along with the evolutionary lottery ticket which gave humans and exceptional ability to develop and use tools, is what allowed humans to become the dominant species on earth.  It is also what makes us the apex predator on earth and, nature being nature, I am just exercising my evolutionary given rights and talents as I see fit.  The fact that it is no longer "necessary" to hunt for food does not matter.  I have the will and ability to make the most effective use of what nature has given me and I do just that, without hurting another of my own species in the process.  At the same time it is an incredibly humbling experience to see how much hard work is involved in harvesting an animal, even with modern tools. It is a miracle that humans made it this far.
 
2013-02-07 10:27:41 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: MyRandomName: ajgeek: Since the definition of murder means killing another human being, then technically no. However, killing anything that isn't going to be used in a functional way "food, clothing, tools" is BLOODY STUPID!

You think hunters just kill and leave the carcasses to rot?

Who eats wolf meat? They just take the coat and that's it.


If left in the wild, something will eat the entire carcass. Nothing goes to waste in nature.
I haven't hunted in many years, but I do fish and eat the ones I keep.
 
2013-02-07 10:29:16 PM

beta_plus: SUMMON DITTYBOPPER!

/NPR isn't even pretending anymore to be objective



Got any evidence of that?

That's what I thought.
 
2013-02-07 10:30:34 PM
If so, I guess I'm a mass murderer.  There are an awful lot of ducks, geese, pheasants, grouse, and deer who have been slain by my regime.

I would have responded earlier in the thread, but I was at my Thursday night archery league holocaust practice.  This makes me a better murderer.
 
2013-02-07 10:31:02 PM
I love maiming the animal, walking up and ripping out it's heart and eating it while they die...
Works on deer too...
 
2013-02-07 10:32:19 PM

Abox: ajgeek: Since the definition of murder means killing another human being

It's actually the unlawful killing of another person...important distinction.


with malice aforethought.
 
2013-02-07 10:34:32 PM

parkthebus: If so, I guess I'm a mass murderer.  There are an awful lot of ducks, geese, pheasants, grouse, and deer who have been slain by my regime.

I would have responded earlier in the thread, but I was at my Thursday night archery league holocaust practice.  This makes me a better murderer.


Does your regime have any openings in Management and if so, where can I apply?
 
2013-02-07 10:36:17 PM
If NPR wasn't run by a bunch of Godless, homosexual, atheists with a communist agenda; they might have noticed the Lord game us dominion over all animals on the earth to do with as we please.
 
2013-02-07 10:36:52 PM

nigeman: I know this is a touchy subject but here is my 2 cents.

Hunters love the kill. The idea of taking another life, the final kicking of the animal is all part of the charm, otherwise why would they do it? Getting food isn't the answer. It's the fun of it.

Also I think hunters claiming that video games makes people violent is absurd.

that's all folks


You're wrong.  Just about any hunter will tell you that all the fun is over once you pull the trigger.  Every hunter I know is in it for the hunt.

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted...If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift, he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surely brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job."
Jose Ortega y Gasset
 
2013-02-07 10:38:54 PM
Can hunters and animal advocates talk and listen together about their different ways of thinking through these issues?

Hmm, so you're accusing me of murder and want to have a rational talk with me.  I don't think I could stop myself trying to guess your chromosome count.
 
2013-02-07 10:39:18 PM
Hunting is not murder if you eat what you kill.

I watched an episode from the final season of No Reservations a while ago. It was set in the Ozarks I guess, or some other equally backward redneck hot bed. They took Tony duck hunting, miraculously for this show, they actually got some ducks. Not one of the Bubbas that was accompanying Bourdain on that day knew how to cook duck or liked to eat duck. It took the city boy to show them how to freaking cook a duck breast with crispy skin to medium. They had lived their all their lives, spent god knows how much on their farking mossy oak EVERYTHING so they could go out and shoot ducks that they never farking ate.

Idiots, murdering idiots.
 
2013-02-07 10:41:19 PM

ajgeek: Since the definition of murder means killing another human being, then technically no. However, killing anything that isn't going to be used in a functional way "food, clothing, tools" is BLOODY STUPID!


Same for sex then right?  Sex without intent to procreate is BLOODY STUPID!?

People do such things not for the result, but the pleasure of the act.  It is in our nature to enjoy such things, a gift of Darwin, so to speak, that granted us better odds.

It's entertaining that one argument here is liberal(hunting = murder) and the other is more of a christian sort of conservative(recreational sex = evil), yet they use the same flawed logic.

Many liberal vs conservative arguments suffer from the same base moral-judgement that one accuses the other of.
 
2013-02-07 10:41:26 PM
I pay upwards of $60 a year in license fees for the right to hunt deer.  Then pay $80 to have my tasty venison butchered if I am successful.    $140 dollars for 40 pounds of delicious meat is a good deal for me.   My daughter turns down a filet mignon before a piece of deer steak.
 
2013-02-07 10:47:07 PM

KidneyStone: BronyMedic: It's not murder if you're intending to use as much of the animal as possible in tasty, tasty recipes. So remember that next time your city has a homeless problem.

/I'm not a...hah..."SERIAL" killer....

I've not seen any coyote recipes.


Here ya go.

 http://www.foremostcoyotehunting.com/2011/02/eating-coyote.html

/not a big fan of predator meat myself
//but then again I don't hunt predators unless they, hypothetically, need to have their numbers reduced for safety reasons.
///haven't hunted them yet.
 
2013-02-07 10:47:43 PM

GreenSun: To me, murder means to kill something, whether it's human or a simple animal.

Well, the rest of us participate in a civilisation , where we agree on such things necessary to live together, such as language.  In order to share a common language, the rest of us use common definitions.  Like in a dictionary.


SO, go ahead and make up your warm and fuzzy definitions if that makes you feel warm and fuzzy.  But by the english language the rest of us use, no it's not murder.  And for that matter, animals don't have rights.  Not an opinion, just a point of fact, if you understand the definition of the words.

/Hmm, that commentary (including the rest that I snipped) is so obtuse I'm wondering if I'm being trolled...
 
2013-02-07 10:48:32 PM
HighlanderRPI:  Does your regime have any openings in Management and if so, where can I apply?

I could use a chief scout.  The fact that I have to work all the time really reduces my regime's slaughter efficacy.  What are your qualifications?  We are an equal opportunity regime, and welcome any assistance we can get in identifying where and when to pursue our murderous ways.
 
2013-02-07 10:52:12 PM
jed clampett shot the ground and out sprang oil. oil! OIL! black gold! texas tea!


you too can hunt the earth. that sneaky, sneaky planet.
 
2013-02-07 10:53:23 PM
Absolutely the most ridiculous article I've ever read.  EVER.
 
2013-02-07 10:53:35 PM

IgG4: Hunting is not murder if you eat what you kill.


Did you think my Hobo-stew wasn't authentic?
 
2013-02-07 10:54:34 PM
No. Animals kill and eat other animals all the time. It's called the food chain. We just happen to be towards the top. But there are superior predators that will make a meal of us given the opportunity.
 
2013-02-07 10:56:50 PM
ts1.mm.bing.net
 
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