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(NBC News)   Lutheran minister formally apologizes for taking part in prayer vigil for the victims of the Sandy Hook Massacre-because there were also clerics of other faiths also praying at the service, and you know, Jesus just HATES that   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 399
    More: Asinine, Lutherans, hate, Jewish faith, Lutheran pastor  
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9088 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2013 at 2:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-07 11:50:46 AM
Yep, called it: Missouri Synod
 
2013-02-07 11:59:52 AM
*Sigh*, being logically consistent with your faith's teachings is obviously much more important than showing support in a time of tragedy.
 
2013-02-07 12:04:44 PM
"I apologize where I have caused offense by pushing Christian freedom too far, and I request you charitably receive my apology."

moral of the story: don't abuse Christian Freedoms by feeling bad about the massacre of people who aren't Real Christians. 'cause jesus and the constitution.
 
2013-02-07 12:04:57 PM

BigSnatch: *Sigh*, being logically consistent with your faith's teachings is obviously much more important than showing support in a time of tragedy.


It's just how Jesus would have done it.
 
2013-02-07 12:12:42 PM
Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.
 
2013-02-07 12:16:21 PM
Christian freedom!

Whoa! Don't go too far with that
 
2013-02-07 12:20:15 PM
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

--Emo Phillips
 
2013-02-07 12:22:17 PM
You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.
 
2013-02-07 12:24:59 PM
I could go for some coffee and lemon bars...
 
2013-02-07 12:25:04 PM
Kyosuke:
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

--Emo Phillips


Awww, it's so sad because it's often so true.

/at least the Lutheran Church of America is still OK
 
2013-02-07 12:27:06 PM
Because next time, Christians are going to do the throwing to the lions damn it!
 
2013-02-07 12:28:05 PM
You have to be some kind of callous, god-uber-alles, dogmatic, bull-headed, pig-ignorant, self-important, know-nothing asshole to object.

Abraham prayed with "foreigners" (angels, kings and travelers). Jacob prayed with foreigners (Egyptians, mostly - but also Arameans). Joseph prayed with foreigners (Egyptians). Moses prayed with foreigners (Jethro was a 'foreign' Moabite priest, and Mo married his daughter). Jesus prayed with foreigners and others ALL THE DAMNED TIME.

As a Catholic friend of mine said recently: "Shiat like this is why people are leaving the Church in droves. The beliefs we can deal with on our own, or through discussions with our priests. The hypocrisies and lack of compassionate behavior evident in the behavior of Church officials - those same things the Church accuses the rest of the world of lacking - are far more off-putting."

// die in whatever hellfires you wish, peddlers of disharmony
// and take your closed-minded, petty little internecine conflicts with you
// and stop making genuine gestures of humanity into sins against the father, you dumb pricks
// yes, I know Catholics != Lutherans
 
2013-02-07 12:31:04 PM
Lutherans?

In any other country they are the most liberal libs that ever religioned.

I wonder what Luther would say about this.
 
2013-02-07 12:32:12 PM

propasaurus: Christian freedom!

Whoa! Don't go too far with that


Christian Freedom is an oxymoron.  The further you go with the Christianity, the less freedom anyone has.
 
2013-02-07 12:41:39 PM
So, for a memorial service, for a community, for a group of people who were killed that happened to be of varying religions... It would have been better if the Lutherans stayed away entirely?

I bet what this is really about is doing something that somehow cooperated with Obama.
 
2013-02-07 01:14:08 PM

hinten: Lutherans?

In any other country they are the most liberal libs that ever religioned.

I wonder what Luther would say about this.


You're thinking of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, this is the Missouri-Synod Lutheran Church. The former are the libbiest libs who ever religioned and the latter believe that anyone who teaches things contrary to the bible is an anti-Christ
 
2013-02-07 01:35:27 PM
Of all the things someone would be asked to apologize for?

farkING A.
 
2013-02-07 01:36:49 PM
He's going to burn in Hell alongside Hitler and Gandhi.
 
2013-02-07 01:38:10 PM

Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod



Holy shiat, they've gotten crazier since I left. I was expecting this guy would have been WELS...


hinten: I wonder what Luther would say about this.



"Hey, let's persecute some Jews, that'll bring everyone together. We could go bowling afterwards."
 
2013-02-07 01:42:33 PM

Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod


Was going to say, either Missouri or Wisconsin.
 
2013-02-07 01:45:19 PM

hinten: I wonder what Luther would say about this.


That they're killing him softly?

userserve-ak.last.fm
 
2013-02-07 01:47:18 PM
This is why Lutherans can't have nice things!
This will teach them to worship Lex Luther.
 
2013-02-07 01:51:05 PM
CSB, my (imaginary Canadian) girlfriend was brought up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.
She switched to Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), which despite the common connotation of "evangelical", is quite liberal.

Now when she visits home & goes to her parents' church (also her former church), she isn't allowed to take communion.

Apparently the Missouri and Wisconsin synods are pretty far right. I'd had no idea about any of this Lutheran stuff before.
 
2013-02-07 01:54:36 PM

tallguywithglasseson: CSB, my (imaginary Canadian) girlfriend was brought up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.
She switched to Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), which despite the common connotation of "evangelical", is quite liberal.

Now when she visits home & goes to her parents' church (also her former church), she isn't allowed to take communion.

Apparently the Missouri and Wisconsin synods are pretty far right. I'd had no idea about any of this Lutheran stuff before.


Many ELCA folks are't too fond of the "evangelical" pejorative thrown around these days as a synonym for right-wing fundies.  Of course, to an ELCA Lutheran, A Prairie Home Companion is evangelizing.
 
2013-02-07 01:57:00 PM

BigSnatch: *Sigh*, being logically consistent with your faith's teachings is obviously much more important than showing support in a time of tragedy.


It's what Jesus would do.
 
2013-02-07 02:06:21 PM

Voiceofreason01: Kyosuke:
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

--Emo Phillips

Awww, it's so sad because it's often so true.

/at least the Lutheran Church of America is still OK


It's just another McWorship franchise shucking suckers for a tithe.
If you want lemon bars, stay home on Sunday and make your own.
 
2013-02-07 02:07:15 PM
Ah, religion.
 
2013-02-07 02:09:19 PM
First thought "Who knew Lutherans were such jerks?"

Second thought (after reading further): "Oh, those Missouri dudes."
 
2013-02-07 02:09:36 PM

Jument: Ah, religion.


What can't it do? Apparently, other than brainwashing people in believing mythological creatures, nothing of value...
 
2013-02-07 02:10:47 PM
There were forty religious representatives there.

That's as many as four tens, and that's terrible.
 
2013-02-07 02:12:13 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.


Most Lutherans are. This is the Missouri Synod, the crazy ones. Garrison Keillor, they ain't.
 
2013-02-07 02:13:19 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Apparently the Missouri and Wisconsin synods are pretty far right. I'd had no idea about any of this Lutheran stuff before.


I did. My aunt and uncle and cousins, all Minnesota and Wisconsin residents, went Missouri Synod a couple of years ago because they were convinced that their liberal Lutheran church was promoting and encouraging sinful and harmful homosexuality tendencies by basically saying "gay is OK in this church."
 
2013-02-07 02:13:56 PM
What a tool. This is not an ecumenical matter
this is about grief and loss
providing comfort
caring about others

father jack would kick...his ..ass

(and probably bite him)
 
2013-02-07 02:14:07 PM
What kind of bullshiat rule is that?

/it's rhetorical and obvious, so don't answer that
 
2013-02-07 02:14:16 PM

give me doughnuts: If you want lemon bars, stay home on Sunday and make your own.


You could even have a party.
 
2013-02-07 02:14:19 PM

hinten: Lutherans?

In any other country they are the most liberal libs that ever religioned.

I wonder what Luther would say about this.



He was only slightly to the left of Zwingli, so he might not have set this guy on fire.
 
2013-02-07 02:15:18 PM

Earguy: You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.


So very much, "this."
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-02-07 02:16:18 PM
Make "Christianity" the official religion in the U.S. and immediately the fight changes to "what type."

This is why the separation is in the constitution.  And don't tell me it's not there, either...
 
2013-02-07 02:16:24 PM
WTF?
 
2013-02-07 02:16:25 PM

Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it:  Missouri Synod


I'll have to look that up. I thought Lutherans were pretty open-minded, for the most part*

*their founder was pretty anti-Semitic, but I think everyone else was too back in the 1500's...
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-02-07 02:16:58 PM

Sass-O-Rev: Earguy: You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.

So very much, "this."


Not only that.. but it's the Bible that said it, not God.
 
2013-02-07 02:17:21 PM
I'm an atheist, and I  love religion. I really do! And I don't love religion in a snarky, mean-spirited way. I unabashedly, sincerely love that we have religion because, if we didn't, we wouldn't be here right now. Being all post-modern and ironic. There'd be no civilization! If no one had been in religion, we'd be farked right now.

Because, at the dawn of man, civilization was ... the biggest and the strongest. And that's as far as we were gonna go. It was whoever was the biggest farked, killed, ate anything they wanted. That was it! Civilization was a huge psychopath with a club goin', "I'm gonna have rape fer dinner." That was it! That's as far as we were gonna go!

And then, one of my ancestors, some  weakling, said, "Look, there's no way I can beat that guy. But what if I  trick him into thinking that if he doesn't kill and rape people while he's down here, when he dies, there's a magic city in the clouds, and he can go up and have all the cake he wants?!"

Now, that's not a very well-formed plan, but he went and told the big psycho, and the psycho heard that, and said, "Yeah, I like cake." BOOM! There ya go! That was the beginning of civilization. Now we can work on fire and writing and agriculture. That's religion! It's the old sky cake dodge. It worked!

But ... and, by the way, things were great for awhile. But then, what was happening was, that shiat was going on all over the planet. Then we just used different desserts. They would tell 'em about sky cookies or sky pie or sky baklava. So, as each of these civilizations grew, they built ships, they'd go visit each other, and the one guy would walk off the boat and go, "Hey, did ya hear the good news about the sky baklava?" And the first guy went,  "IT'S CAKE, MOTHERFARKER, YER DEAD!"

And then, oh my God, there were the Dessert Wars, it was a nightmare. They were just killin' people. It got so bad that, every now and then, some dude would show up and go, "Hey, got good news! There's cake and pie and cookies, for EVERYONE, we can all share!" And people said, "NAIL HIM TO A FARKIN' CROSS! IT IS  ONLY CAKE! OH MY GOD! THE ONLY WAY SKY CAKE TASTES GOOD IS IF, UP IN THE SKY, THE SKY COOKIE AND SKY PIE PEOPLE CAN'T HAVE THE SKY PIE!  THAT'S THE ONLY WAY SKY CAKE TASTES GOOD! I DID NOT SPEND MY LIFE  NOT RAPING AND KILLING PEOPLE TO NOT GO UP IN THE SKY AND HAVE CAKE!

SKY CAKE!"

So the next time you see some douchebags in front of an abortion clinic, or trying to ban a  Harry Potter novel, just go, "Oh, Sky Cake.  Why are you so delicious?!"
 
2013-02-07 02:17:27 PM
I see the problem, all of those leaders of other religions in one place and he forgot to pray to God that they be smote right where they sat.

/First rule of Smite Club, always pray for some smiting!
 
2013-02-07 02:17:37 PM
TL;DR: Moron leader of group dedicated to an invisible sky daddy throws a hissy fit because one of the members attended meeting with people who believe in other invisible sky daddies.

/amidoingitright?
 
2013-02-07 02:17:57 PM

d23: Sass-O-Rev: Earguy: You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.

So very much, "this."

Not only that.. but it's the Bible that said it, not God.


Maybe the person with the sticker has aural hallucinations on a regular basis.
 
2013-02-07 02:18:02 PM

rufus-t-firefly: give me doughnuts: If you want lemon bars, stay home on Sunday and make your own.

You could even have a party.


With beer! I've never understood why Baptists (and others) were all so anti-alcohol.
 
2013-02-07 02:18:21 PM

manwithplanx: hinten: Lutherans?

In any other country they are the most liberal libs that ever religioned.

I wonder what Luther would say about this.

You're thinking of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, this is the Missouri-Synod Lutheran Church. The former are the libbiest libs who ever religioned and the latter believe that anyone who teaches things contrary to the bible is an anti-Christ


Luther was famous for pinning a bunch of proclamations to a big arch.
 
2013-02-07 02:19:42 PM
skywriter2012.files.wordpress.com

\apologies are the new Black
\\except for the one in the White House
 
2013-02-07 02:19:48 PM
GOD...HATES...YOU!
 
2013-02-07 02:20:12 PM
Let's see here. Jesus hates gays/transgender, whores, prostitutes, non-Lutheran style Christians, Taoists, Bhuddhists, Muslims, people with hooks...My heavens!!! This Jesus guy sounds like an asshole.
 
2013-02-07 02:20:15 PM
whitedsepulchres.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-07 02:20:15 PM
Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.
 
2013-02-07 02:20:33 PM
I grew up Lutheran.  We had a gay choir director who regularly brought his partner to church and this was back in the 80s. Very liberal church.  We even did a Jewish Sedar in bible study to celebrate passover to learn about the commonalities of different religions.  We learned about Catholocism and other Protestant religions in very respectful manner.  The thing is, I had never heard of the Missouri Synod until I was grown up.  I'm convinced that the Missouri Synod is that crazy relative your parents sit you down when your 20 and say: "you know how we said you didn't have any aunts or uncles..."
 
2013-02-07 02:20:52 PM

ko_kyi: There were forty religious representatives there.

That's as many as four tens, and that's terrible.


That made me laugh a whole lot.
 
2013-02-07 02:21:02 PM
Give the Lutherans credit - they do know how to throw a kickass potluck dinner.
 
2013-02-07 02:21:33 PM
He had to or he would have lost his job.  I blame the synod president that made him apologize more than I blame this guy.  He was just trying to keep his jerb.

He should switch to ELCA.
 
2013-02-07 02:22:13 PM

Matthew Keene: Let's see here. Jesus hates gays/transgender, whores, prostitutes, non-Lutheran style Christians, Taoists, Bhuddhists, Muslims, people with hooks...My heavens!!! This Jesus guy sounds like an asshole.


And Catholic Jesus hates Lutheran Christians taking communion at their friends wedding in a Catholic church.

i offended the sh*t out of a couple people that day. ; )
 
2013-02-07 02:23:04 PM

rufus-t-firefly: And then, oh my God, there were the Dessert Wars, it was a nightmare. They were just killin' people. It got so bad that, every now and then, some dude would show up and go, "Hey, got good news! There's cake and pie and cookie ...


Welcome to my favorites list. Have a seat, relax, you've earned it.
 
2013-02-07 02:24:29 PM

d23: Make "Christianity" the official religion in the U.S. and immediately the fight changes to "what type."

This is why the separation is in the constitution.  And don't tell me it's not there, either...


Not sure if serious
www.lutecium.org
Or Freudian slip
 
2013-02-07 02:24:38 PM

ko_kyi: There were forty religious representatives there.

That's as many as four tens, and that's terrible.


Reminds me of Genesis 18.

// look it up
// study it out
 
2013-02-07 02:24:48 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod

Was going to say, either Missouri or Wisconsin.


I thought WELS. I know they have similar rules.
My wife is a recovering member of that church. Sad, sad stuff they indoctrinate them with,
 
2013-02-07 02:26:32 PM

give me doughnuts: rufus-t-firefly: give me doughnuts: If you want lemon bars, stay home on Sunday and make your own.

You could even have a party.

With beer! I've never understood why Baptists (and others) were all so anti-alcohol.


Well, I was making a "lemon party" reference (do yourself a favor and DO NOT Google that) but your idea is much better.
 
2013-02-07 02:26:32 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.


My understanding is there are some crazy sects of Lutheranism.  I was raised Lutheran and taught quite the opposite of what's being told in this article.  The church I went to recognized all Christian faiths and welcomed them all in.  While I was still there one of the members became an ordained pastor - and she was... a she.  The pastor in charge of the church also had a wife and kids.

I've since converted to Pastafarianism but there are at least some sane versions of Lutheranism out there.
 
2013-02-07 02:27:16 PM
Just remember all you humans:

rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-02-07 02:27:33 PM

ColTomParker: rufus-t-firefly: And then, oh my God, there were the Dessert Wars, it was a nightmare. They were just killin' people. It got so bad that, every now and then, some dude would show up and go, "Hey, got good news! There's cake and pie and cookie ...

Welcome to my favorites list. Have a seat, relax, you've earned it.


Here's the video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w
 
2013-02-07 02:28:03 PM
I got tired of jumping through imaginary hoops to keep imaginary sky daddy happy a long time ago.
 
2013-02-07 02:28:48 PM
www.turnbacktogod.com


Dad smites this Rob Morris guy on his way to the church this morning, and he gets here all confused wondering what's happened. I decided to meet him myself at the pearly gates. So anyway, he starts to walk in, and I'm all like, 'woah there Rob, I'm not sure you should be hanging with a Jew like me'. Long story short, I have Saint Peter tell him to go to hell.
 
2013-02-07 02:30:19 PM

mrmyxolodian: tallguywithglasseson: Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod

Was going to say, either Missouri or Wisconsin.

I thought WELS. I know they have similar rules.
My wife is a recovering member of that church. Sad, sad stuff they indoctrinate them with,


I grew up LC-MS and am now ELCA.  I knew it was LC-MS without reading it because the WSLC wouldn't have gone in the first place. The only Wisconsin Synod thing I've ever been to was a fire and brimstone wedding.  Yeah, read that again, fire and brimstone wedding.

/The Lutheran church, where "take drink ye all of it" means chug it!!
 
2013-02-07 02:30:32 PM
God, you are a dick! No starship for you!
 
2013-02-07 02:30:35 PM

rufus-t-firefly: give me doughnuts: rufus-t-firefly: give me doughnuts: If you want lemon bars, stay home on Sunday and make your own.

You could even have a party.

With beer! I've never understood why Baptists (and others) were all so anti-alcohol.

Well, I was making a "lemon party" reference (do yourself a favor and DO NOT Google that) but your idea is much better.


Yeah, I had to purge the whole lemon-party thing form my mind.


Kahfee and Bars.   Just like Kirstie Alley said it in "Drop Dead Gorgeous".
 
2013-02-07 02:30:45 PM
i174.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-07 02:31:21 PM
randalrauser.com
 
2013-02-07 02:31:23 PM
* Reads Wikipedia *
Ah. I see. Not so much Lutherans as a German variation on the whole American feral Baptist thing.
 
2013-02-07 02:31:27 PM

Earguy: So, for a memorial service, for a community, for a group of people who were killed that happened to be of varying religions... It would have been better if the Lutherans stayed away entirely?

I bet what this is really about is doing something that somehow cooperated with Obama.


Not really.  The same thing happened at Valparaiso University after 9/11.  The university's chapel is associated with the Missouri Synod, and the rector invited people of other faiths to pray from the chapel's altar.  Word got to the LCMS about the illicit prayers...the rector's supervisors wisely accepted his apology and VU got to go through another round of "How Lutheran Are We?"  That a plurality of its students are, in fact, Roman Catholic makes the question even harder to answer.
 
2013-02-07 02:31:42 PM

CheapEngineer: [skywriter2012.files.wordpress.com image 470x353]

\apologies are the new Black
\\except for the one in the White House


That's borderline informative/eye poison right there. Who is that and what the hell is growing on his face?
 
2013-02-07 02:31:58 PM
I'm sorry that contributions are down.  What do I need to say to get you dumbasses to empty your pockets on Sunday?
 
2013-02-07 02:33:18 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [www.turnbacktogod.com image 800x684]


Dad smites this Rob Morris guy on his way to the church this morning, and he gets here all confused wondering what's happened. I decided to meet him myself at the pearly gates. So anyway, he starts to walk in, and I'm all like, 'woah there Rob, I'm not sure you should be hanging with a Jew like me'. Long story short, I have Saint Peter tell him to go to hell.


You sure he's not asking how much the little girl costs?

"The little girl, your daughters... sell them to me!"
 
2013-02-07 02:33:26 PM

wsupfoo2: I grew up Lutheran.  We had a gay choir director who regularly brought his partner to church and this was back in the 80s. Very liberal church.  We even did a Jewish Sedar in bible study to celebrate passover to learn about the commonalities of different religions.  We learned about Catholocism and other Protestant religions in very respectful manner.  The thing is, I had never heard of the Missouri Synod until I was grown up.  I'm convinced that the Missouri Synod is that crazy relative your parents sit you down when your 20 and say: "you know how we said you didn't have any aunts or uncles..."


Me too, but I hadn't heard of the synod at all. I only ever knew the ELCA. I remember being taught sex-ed in Sunday school, which would likely have most other religions crying foul.

/atheist now
//only goes to church for funerals and marriages
 
2013-02-07 02:34:06 PM
"There is sometimes a real tension between wanting to bear witness to Christ and at the same time avoiding situations which may give the impression that our differences with respect to who God is, who Jesus is, how he deals with us, and how we get to heaven, really don't matter in the end," Harrison wrote.

I .... um... have a hard time reading this as a point in favor of this "no joint worship" rule.
 
2013-02-07 02:34:32 PM

Yamaneko2: Not really. The same thing happened at Valparaiso University after 9/11. The university's chapel is associated with the Missouri Synod, and the rector invited people of other faiths to pray from the chapel's altar. Word got to the LCMS about the illicit prayers...the rector's supervisors wisely accepted his apology and VU got to go through another round of "How Lutheran Are We?" That a plurality of its students are, in fact, Roman Catholic makes the question even harder to answer.


Do I see another Farker/Crusader?  If so, when did you graduate?  There are a couple others of us around.  I was 89 (BA) and 92 (JD).
 
2013-02-07 02:34:37 PM
Is it that hard to have a religion that loves everyone and works on being nice to each other?
 
2013-02-07 02:35:35 PM

you have pee hands: I .... um... have a hard time reading this as a point in favor of this "no joint worship" rule.



Dude, he's Lutheran, not Rasta.
 
2013-02-07 02:36:17 PM
Pastor Matthew Harrison, you are pure evil.
 
2013-02-07 02:36:21 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [www.turnbacktogod.com image 800x684]


Damn, there sure are a lot of white people in that picture depicting life in the MIDDLE EAST 2000 years ago.  But then again, they all seem to do that.
 
2013-02-07 02:36:23 PM
Anybody want to come to my house for Kahlua coffee and "special" lemon bars?  I am starting a new religion where everyone has to be nice to each other.  That's the only rule.
 
2013-02-07 02:37:11 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Now when she visits home & goes to her parents' church (also her former church), she isn't allowed to take communion.


I'm sure they have no problem accepting the money she puts in the collection plate, though.
 
2013-02-07 02:37:27 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: CheapEngineer: [skywriter2012.files.wordpress.com image 470x353]

\apologies are the new Black
\\except for the one in the White House

That's borderline informative/eye poison right there. Who is that and what the hell is growing on his face?


That was the guy who apologized to Dick Cheney after Cheney shot him in the face with a shotgun full of bird pellets.

The dots are from the pellets. The yellow and the swelling is bruising.
 
2013-02-07 02:37:57 PM

Anderson's Pooper: Yamaneko2: Not really. The same thing happened at Valparaiso University after 9/11. The university's chapel is associated with the Missouri Synod, and the rector invited people of other faiths to pray from the chapel's altar. Word got to the LCMS about the illicit prayers...the rector's supervisors wisely accepted his apology and VU got to go through another round of "How Lutheran Are We?" That a plurality of its students are, in fact, Roman Catholic makes the question even harder to answer.

Do I see another Farker/Crusader?  If so, when did you graduate?  There are a couple others of us around.  I was 89 (BA) and 92 (JD).


Not quite as cool...but my dad is from Chesterton and I have been to Valpo a bunch of times..even been to the college and been in that chapel there.
 
2013-02-07 02:38:18 PM
Listening to armchair theologians and apatheists(not a typo)talk about these things is painful.
 
2013-02-07 02:39:59 PM

OminousAnonymous: Anybody want to come to my house for Kahlua coffee and "special" lemon bars?  I am starting a new religion where everyone has to be nice to each other.  That's the only rule.


Are we talking cyanide/Jim Jones "special", or chronic/Snoop Lion "special"?
 
2013-02-07 02:40:09 PM
I grew up attending a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church and don't recall this type of douchebaggery. Thankfully. fark god and all his forms.
 
2013-02-07 02:40:14 PM

Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod



The Missouri Synod Luthern Church:  We're better than you.  Just ask us!
 
2013-02-07 02:40:21 PM

dv-ous: Fark Rye For Many Whores: *snip*


This is what he looks like without a gunshot wound.


i45.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-07 02:40:36 PM

ManRay: Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.


I've always wondered about that commandment. Isn't that Old Testament God admitting that there are other gods out there flying around?
 
2013-02-07 02:40:54 PM
This sounds like kind of an admin thing, but it's a dumb one.  I would have expected better from lutherans.
 
2013-02-07 02:41:53 PM

George Babbitt: Listening to armchair theologians and apatheists(not a typo)talk about these things is painful.


Yeah, well, don't be dicks.
 
2013-02-07 02:42:03 PM
As a member of the LCMS, I was ashamed to know that they were behind this crap before I clicked the link.

That said, I do know that there is a push within the LCMS to kick Harrison's type to the curb.  The younger generation that is coming into power inside the church's various governing bodies are tired of these kinds of shenanigans, because they recognize that this kind of crap has nothing to do with Christ's teachings and everything to do with the internal politics built around a Synodical dogma whose time has passed.  I hope that they are successful, because I'm tired of reading stories like this.

/Likes my church
//Had cigars and whiskey with the pastor last Friday
 
2013-02-07 02:42:29 PM
But we are still cool with the way Sharia torments women right?
 
2013-02-07 02:42:57 PM

FatherChaos: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [www.turnbacktogod.com image 800x684]

Damn, there sure are a lot of white people in that picture depicting life in the MIDDLE EAST 2000 years ago.  But then again, they all seem to do that.


As a kid, growing up in the Presbyterian church, I noticed that the Sunday-school depictions of Jesus were whiter than me...(and I'm White)

/ most of the art there had a "Norman Rockwell" vibe...
 
2013-02-07 02:43:28 PM
Raised in Missouri Synod. Practicing Deist. 'Nuf Said
 
2013-02-07 02:43:30 PM

Onkel Buck: But we are still cool with the way Sharia torments women right?


...no?
 
2013-02-07 02:45:07 PM

mrmyxolodian: tallguywithglasseson: Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod

Was going to say, either Missouri or Wisconsin.

I thought WELS. I know they have similar rules.
My wife is a recovering member of that church. Sad, sad stuff they indoctrinate them with,


I expected WELS, myself, but someone pointed out that anyone from the WI synod wouldn't have even gone in the first place, and I remembered.  I was dragged to a WELS church until I was 18 and could put my foot down properly.

Now I sleep in on Sundays.  It's awesome.
 
2013-02-07 02:45:17 PM

GoodyearPimp: OminousAnonymous: Anybody want to come to my house for Kahlua coffee and "special" lemon bars?  I am starting a new religion where everyone has to be nice to each other.  That's the only rule.

Are we talking cyanide/Jim Jones "special", or chronic/Snoop Lion "special"?


Lol I would never poison anyone - I promise!
 
2013-02-07 02:45:28 PM

rufus-t-firefly: SKY CAKE!


Amusing, but it's becoming more and more clear that the impetus for civilization was neither cake, nor religion.

It was beer:

http://www.livescience.com/25855-stone-age-beer-brewery-discovered.h tm l

NickBush24: TL;DR: Moron leader of group dedicated to an invisible sky daddy throws a hissy fit because one of the members attended meeting with people who believe in other invisible sky daddies.

/amidoingitright?


More like "meeting with people who believe in the exact same invisible sky daddy, but their fan club has slightly different by-laws".
 
2013-02-07 02:45:57 PM

GoodyearPimp: OminousAnonymous: Anybody want to come to my house for Kahlua coffee and "special" lemon bars?  I am starting a new religion where everyone has to be nice to each other.  That's the only rule.

Are we talking cyanide/Jim Jones "special", or chronic/Snoop Lion "special"?


I've got a really good Jonestown joke, but the punchline it just too damn long.
 
2013-02-07 02:46:13 PM

Onkel Buck: But we are still cool with the way Sharia torments women right?


Being mad about one thing does not mean that everything else is cool.  I can think that this apology was needless and stupid, and still believe that sharia law treats women like crap.  In fact, I can simultaneously find displeasure with A LOT of things about A LOT of religions.
 
2013-02-07 02:46:58 PM

OminousAnonymous: I am starting a new religion where everyone has to be nice to each other. That's the only rule.


We tried that 2000 years. A good chunk of the people who got in on the ground floor were killed for it.
 
2013-02-07 02:47:16 PM
You know, because praying makes such a huge difference, either way.
 
2013-02-07 02:47:41 PM
threadjack: yet another fark redesign no one asked for and which doesn't aid functionality

/not over it, yet
 
2013-02-07 02:48:13 PM

Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod


ELCA Lutherans are totally different. I grew up in an ELCA Lutheran church family and we actually pooled our youth group with a temple and a mosque so we could have enough kids to field a hockey team against the Roman Catholics.
 
2013-02-07 02:48:15 PM

Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod


That was my guess.

Wife was ELCA before we both went Episcopal.  Can't imagine the pastor at her old church needing to apologize.
 
2013-02-07 02:49:42 PM
Lutheran pastor = Catholic priest officially allowed to f*ck.
 
2013-02-07 02:51:00 PM

enry: Wife was ELCA before we both went Episcopal.


Mrs. Nuisance's grandfather was a Baptist Lay Deacon.

He would have called you "Whiskeypalians".

CSB-i-L!
 
2013-02-07 02:51:22 PM

Earguy: You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.


http://www.jhuger.com/kissing-hanks-ass
 
2013-02-07 02:51:51 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.


Key words: Missouri Synod.  Anything with "MIssouri" in the name has got to be bad news.
 
2013-02-07 02:52:02 PM
Someone needs to nail some theses on the  Missouri Synod's front door.
 
2013-02-07 02:52:13 PM
fark religion, and all the nutjobs who feel the need to inflict it upon the human race.
 
2013-02-07 02:52:51 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Raised in Missouri Synod. Practicing Deist. 'Nuf Said


How does one practice deism?

"Oh vague, disinterested, disconnected, unknown, possible creator of the universe, please continue to ignore my prayers..."
 
2013-02-07 02:53:06 PM

SpiderQueenDemon: I grew up in an ELCA Lutheran church family and we actually pooled our youth group with a temple and a mosque so we could have enough kids to field a hockey team against the Roman Catholics.


Priorities, I guess.
 
2013-02-07 02:53:31 PM
www.column10.com

He did WHAT?
 
2013-02-07 02:53:34 PM
Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change?  When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular?  Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences.  Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)
 
2013-02-07 02:54:09 PM

Craptastic: ManRay: Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.

I've always wondered about that commandment. Isn't that Old Testament God admitting that there are other gods out there flying around?


Apparently he was jealous of a Golden Calf.
 
2013-02-07 02:54:35 PM
he may feel he has to apologize to his church...

but i think the rest of us might say THANKS for being there
 
2013-02-07 02:55:25 PM
Add me to the list of reformed LCMS folk that called it before reading the article.
We went ELCA when I was in HS, then my dad went back to MS about a decade ago. Makes me sad to hear him rant about other Lutherans that will share communion with other denominations and ordain women and homos.

/I'm a godless heathen these days
 
2013-02-07 02:55:49 PM

wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change? When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular? Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences. Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)


All of the "competition" we're discussing here also follows Christ.  Thus Christianity.
 
2013-02-07 02:58:42 PM

Dr Dreidel: As a Catholic friend of mine said recently: "Shiat like this is why people are leaving the Church in droves. The beliefs we can deal with on our own, or through discussions with our priests. The hypocrisies and lack of compassionate behavior evident in the behavior of Church officials - those same things the Church accuses the rest of the world of lacking - are far more off-putting."



Yup. It's the believers themselves who are turning youth away from belief. We have incredible access to information now. It's easy enough now to research how various churches and "christian" people have stood on the wrong side of every worthy struggle throughout history - slavery, segregation, gay rights, frigging heliocentrism, birth control, kiddy diddling, etc.. It's easy to find out about all that stuff now and think, "Wow... so they could be just as wrong on the issues of today too. So how come I'm supposed to think they're somehow special and have more answers then anyone else? Because they say so?"

And then you have prominent christians flagrantly violating the teachings of their own damn "prophet" like they do in this story, and all credibility of the teachings are lost on anyone with an ounce of free thought or skepticism. Even if you still want to believe in the religion itself, you sure won't want to have anything to do with the church.

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own" - Thomas Jefferson
 
2013-02-07 02:58:51 PM
The thing about these versions of Christianity that I never got is how they deal with the Bible...do they have their own versions in which 90% of what Jesus did and said is redacted to avoid undermining their views?
 
2013-02-07 02:59:30 PM
ahhh, the good old missouri synod.

I was brought up in a Missouri Synod family. I once asked my dad what the difference was and he said they believed in the literal interpretation of the bible. I asked him about some of the more violent parts and crazy rules in Leviticus to which he gave me a long winded explanation about how things can be interpreted differently at different periods of time.
The irony was completely lost on him.
 
2013-02-07 02:59:32 PM
So, should he have killed the infidels instead of praying with them? LUTHER ACKBAR LALALALALALALALA! Is that how it works in the Lutheran church?
 
2013-02-07 02:59:34 PM
"If you had known what  this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,you would not have condemned the guiltless." --Matthew 12:7

Seems the Lutheran church doesn't read scripture or do what it says, either. No surprise, there.

And people wonder why, though a follower of and believer in Christ, I rarely set foot inside a church and tend to be very careful about using the word Christian to describe myself except when it is simpler because it's the only word people understand. It is because of the church and actions like this: where a man who does what is right has to apologize for it because of the rules and traditions of men.

Church leaders might want to think about not only going back and reading scripture, but actually doing what it says.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Ghandi (disputed)
 
2013-02-07 03:00:10 PM

Dr Dreidel: As a Catholic friend of mine said recently: "Shiat like this is why people are leaving the Church in droves. The beliefs we can deal with on our own, or through discussions with our priests. The hypocrisies and lack of compassionate behavior evident in the behavior of Church officials - those same things the Church accuses the rest of the world of lacking - are far more off-putting."


Is your friend Martin Luther (name sake of Lutherans), because he nailed a note to a church door that pretty much boiled down to this which is kind of ironic.
 
2013-02-07 03:00:29 PM

SomethingToDo: * Reads Wikipedia *
Ah. I see. Not so much Lutherans as a German variation on the whole American feral Baptist thing.


Yay America, it's like we have a perennial neurotic/religious complex that won't go away.  Probably started with the "abolish slavery" movement, where the churches got on the right side, which happened to be the winning side.  Next came the swagger - where's the next demon to eradicate?  Non-WASP Immigration (enact limits).  Demon rum, WCTA was on it (check).  Demon pot, KKK was on it (check).  (okay, uncheck the rum, too much crime.)  No more demons?  Radar stays up ready to hit anything new, like racial equal rights, or women's equal rights, or gay equal rights....

/got to build Jerusalem in this green and pleasant land in 26 minutes
//seriously though, what part of "It is finished!" went over our heads?
 
2013-02-07 03:01:12 PM

Deucednuisance: rufus-t-firefly: SKY CAKE!

Amusing, but it's becoming more and more clear that the impetus for civilization was neither cake, nor religion.

It was beer:

http://www.livescience.com/25855-stone-age-beer-brewery-discovered.h tm l

NickBush24: TL;DR: Moron leader of group dedicated to an invisible sky daddy throws a hissy fit because one of the members attended meeting with people who believe in other invisible sky daddies.

/amidoingitright?

More like "meeting with people who believe in the exact same invisible sky daddy, but their fan club has slightly different by-laws".


sooo youre saying the cake is a lie?
 
2013-02-07 03:01:56 PM
I grew up Missouri Synod, even went to a LCMS school K-8th grade. I switched to the ELCA in college because the LCMS was too conservative. I particularly didn't like their stance on women in the church - no leadership roles so no female pastors, church presidents etc.
 
2013-02-07 03:02:01 PM
On the subject of Lutheran lunatics, there's a sect of the Lutheran Church of Australia that seems to be closer to these Synod types than anything. I couldn't tell you the exact name of their denomination, but in the small rural area I grew up in, the Lutherans were Bible-thumping, abstinence-only, don't-say-gay Young Earth creationists. Co-faith worship wasn't expressly forbidden, but it was generally frowned upon.

/Wasn't part of the church, but my school was.
 
2013-02-07 03:02:41 PM

Craptastic: ManRay: Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.

I've always wondered about that commandment. Isn't that Old Testament God admitting that there are other gods out there flying around?


You know how in English, the word "god" can mean "a thing people worship" or it can mean "a deity, like the one claimed by the Abrahamic faiths"?

Like that. "Thou shalt not place an intermediary between thyselves and ME." Kind of like they would soon do with the Golden Calf (reading the story, the people were concerned they had lost Moses, so they built a thing that could act as intermediary, as Mo had).

// in Judaism, anyway
// the same way the text refers to "the strange gods" of other faiths
// I have heard opinions state that there are other "powers" in the cosmos; and we should recognize that these powers are not "before" god, they act according to his will as well
// but what do I know, I'm one of those "armchair apatheists" that only spent 16 years in religious schools
 
2013-02-07 03:02:45 PM

PirateKing: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Raised in Missouri Synod. Practicing Deist. 'Nuf Said

How does one practice deism?

"Oh vague, disinterested, disconnected, unknown, possible creator of the universe, please continue to ignore my prayers..."



+1, and you owe my company a new keyboard.
 
2013-02-07 03:03:33 PM

Anderson's Pooper: mrmyxolodian: tallguywithglasseson: Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod

Was going to say, either Missouri or Wisconsin.

I thought WELS. I know they have similar rules.
My wife is a recovering member of that church. Sad, sad stuff they indoctrinate them with,

I grew up LC-MS and am now ELCA.  I knew it was LC-MS without reading it because the WSLC wouldn't have gone in the first place. The only Wisconsin Synod thing I've ever been to was a fire and brimstone wedding.  Yeah, read that again, fire and brimstone wedding.

/The Lutheran church, where "take drink ye all of it" means chug it!!


...How the hell do you do a 'fire and brimstone wedding'?
 
2013-02-07 03:03:42 PM

ManRay: Craptastic: ManRay: Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.

I've always wondered about that commandment. Isn't that Old Testament God admitting that there are other gods out there flying around?

Apparently he was jealous of a Golden Calf.


And there lies the problem. Apparently god has a lot of issues. From sending his only son to death (what, he forgot to take out the trash), his only son, mind you, that was conceived via "spiritual" rape. He's a jealous god, an angry god, but he loves you. But don't fark him over or he'll fark you back. He works in mysterious ways, oh yes he does. OH OH! My favorite of you "christians": person dies in a hospital during surgery, doctor's fault. Said person lives, it's a miracle and it was god's will for him to survive. yearh, fark religion.
 
2013-02-07 03:04:44 PM
FTA: "There is sometimes a real tension between wanting to bear witness to Christ and at the same time avoiding situations which may give the impression that our differences with respect to who God is, who Jesus is, how he deals with us, and how we get to heaven, really don't matter in the end," Harrison wrote.

So, basically he's apologizing for behaving in a reasonable, genial manner, and generally being a decent human being.

Nifty.

ct.fra.bz

You know, people wonder why we faithless waggle eyebrows at the claims that the religious have the market cornered on human decency.

To be clear: This would be why.
 
2013-02-07 03:05:06 PM

Onkel Buck: But we are still cool with the way Sharia torments women right?


This isn't a my team vs your team" thing.
 
2013-02-07 03:05:28 PM
The Wisconsin Synod - and apparently still Missouri - don't do the 'public prayer' thing because they feel it shows approval on what is taught, believed, or practiced by the other demoninations. It isn't that they feel they are 'better' or that anyone else isn't welcome in a WELS church - and that includes gay people.They just haven't changed the beliefs the synod was founded on like many other demoninations have through the years.

/The more you know.....
 
2013-02-07 03:05:34 PM

lennavan: wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change? When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular? Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences. Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)

All of the "competition" we're discussing here also follows Christ.  Thus Christianity.


So, when the article says "interfaith", they just mean several flavors of Christianity?
 
2013-02-07 03:06:08 PM

lennavan: All of the "competition" we're discussing here also follows Christ. Thus Christianity.


"The December prayer vigil was attended by President Barack Obama, leaders from Christian, Muslim and Jewish faiths"

On the other hand, had he been praying alongside Fred Phelps I'm sure no apology would have been required.
 
2013-02-07 03:06:31 PM

lennavan: All of the "competition" we're discussing here also follows Christ.


They followed him right into Costco, in fact.
 
2013-02-07 03:07:21 PM
Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
 
2013-02-07 03:07:55 PM

Some of the little ones murdered at Sandy Hook had not yet received Jesus Christ as their savior. Now they're in hell with Hitler.

 wallpaper.knowing-jesus.com
"You're headed to eternal damnation, my child."

 
2013-02-07 03:08:14 PM

Deucednuisance: More like "meeting with people who believe in the exact same invisible sky daddy, but their fan club has slightly different by-laws".


There are Christians who would vehemently deny that Christians, Muslims, and Jews worship the same god.  I have also encountered Jews who hold this position, and I suspect there are Muslims who would also.  Hell, this guy's Missouri Synod probably does not recognize Catholics as worshiping the same god.
 
2013-02-07 03:08:27 PM

GoodyearPimp: OminousAnonymous: Anybody want to come to my house for Kahlua coffee and "special" lemon bars?  I am starting a new religion where everyone has to be nice to each other.  That's the only rule.

Are we talking cyanide/Jim Jones "special", or chronic/Snoop Lion "special"?


I had assumed it was roofie "special" with an unspoken "Wink wink, nudge nudge" after "be nice to each other".
 
2013-02-07 03:08:59 PM

wellreadneck: lennavan: wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change? When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular? Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences. Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)

All of the "competition" we're discussing here also follows Christ.  Thus Christianity.

So, when the article says "interfaith", they just mean several flavors of Christianity?


Hmmm, my bad, I was using the context of the posts in the thread, not the article.  But your interpretation is correct, my apologies.
 
2013-02-07 03:09:02 PM

Dr Dreidel: Craptastic: ManRay: Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.

I've always wondered about that commandment. Isn't that Old Testament God admitting that there are other gods out there flying around?

You know how in English, the word "god" can mean "a thing people worship" or it can mean "a deity, like the one claimed by the Abrahamic faiths"?

Like that. "Thou shalt not place an intermediary between thyselves and ME." Kind of like they would soon do with the Golden Calf (reading the story, the people were concerned they had lost Moses, so they built a thing that could act as intermediary, as Mo had).

// in Judaism, anyway
// the same way the text refers to "the strange gods" of other faiths
// I have heard opinions state that there are other "powers" in the cosmos; and we should recognize that these powers are not "before" god, they act according to his will as well
// but what do I know, I'm one of those "armchair apatheists" that only spent 16 years in religious schools


You like that term? It's so fitting, especially the apatheist part. It seems that you may have actually gotten a degree from that armchair though to be fair ;)
 
2013-02-07 03:09:32 PM

wsupfoo2: I grew up Lutheran.  We had a gay choir director who regularly brought his partner to church and this was back in the 80s. Very liberal church.  We even did a Jewish Sedar in bible study to celebrate passover to learn about the commonalities of different religions.  We learned about Catholocism and other Protestant religions in very respectful manner.  The thing is, I had never heard of the Missouri Synod until I was grown up.  I'm convinced that the Missouri Synod is that crazy relative your parents sit you down when your 20 and say: "you know how we said you didn't have any aunts or uncles..."


Are you me? I think the only reason I stayed in church for as long as I did before the agnostic->atheist migration was that the Lutheran church I grew up in was pretty damn liberal.
 
2013-02-07 03:10:04 PM

All2morrowsparTs: Dr Dreidel: As a Catholic friend of mine said recently: "Shiat like this is why people are leaving the Church in droves. The beliefs we can deal with on our own, or through discussions with our priests. The hypocrisies and lack of compassionate behavior evident in the behavior of Church officials - those same things the Church accuses the rest of the world of lacking - are far more off-putting."

Is your friend Martin Luther (name sake of Lutherans), because he nailed a note to a church door that pretty much boiled down to this which is kind of ironic.


Heh, no. My 7th-grade Earth Sciences teacher. Interestingly enough, she's Pakistani-born, raised Muslim, converted to Roman Catholicism and taught at my Orthodox Jewish middle school.

// an AWESOME woman, who I think is now a social worker in London
 
2013-02-07 03:10:08 PM
Count me as an ethnic Southern Baptist-turned-Episcopalian who called it for LCMS. Often trying to reach out and do the right thing, but then yanked back by their lunatic fringe.

The ELCA has a clergy-sharing agreement with us Whiskypalians (and hooray to my old Diocese of Maryland for coming out all-in for marriage equality last year!), so I knew it wasn't them, and as several previous posters pointed out, a WELS pastor wouldn't have shown up in the first place.

/ In Germany, where there are female Lutheran pastors whose marriages to Muslim men have not proven to be career-limiting moves.
 
2013-02-07 03:10:11 PM

wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change?  When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular?  Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences.  Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)



Indeed, according to the mythos the only way to salvation is through worship of Jehova and devotion to the teachings of Jesus - BUT you're missing the part of his teachings where he instructed everyone to be tolerant of one another and not to be obnoxious about their faith. You're supposed to live humbly according to his teachings so that when people notice how nice you always are and how you seem to be able to handle the things life throws at you and they ask you why, THEN you're supposed to tell them, "Jesus". But until then, Christians are absolutely supposed to be tolerant and friendly with people of other faiths.

Which really isn't such a bad set of teachings in general (some of the specifics are pretty terrible, like Jesus' approval of slavery). The problem is, so very few people who claim to be followers of Christ give a shiat about his teachings. And those who scream about their devotion the loudest usually seem to be the ones who in reality shiat all over those teachings the most.

Matthew 6:5
 
2013-02-07 03:10:23 PM

Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.



Yeah... points for being internaly consistant but it's still all made up bullshiat.
 
2013-02-07 03:10:40 PM

George Babbitt: the apatheist part


Apatheosis.
 
2013-02-07 03:13:23 PM

pciszek: Deucednuisance: More like "meeting with people who believe in the exact same invisible sky daddy, but their fan club has slightly different by-laws".

There are Christians who would vehemently deny that Christians, Muslims, and Jews worship the same god.  I have also encountered Jews who hold this position, and I suspect there are Muslims who would also.  Hell, this guy's Missouri Synod probably does not recognize Catholics as worshiping the same god.


Which just makes no damn sense.  Each worships the God of Abraham by their own admission.
 
2013-02-07 03:13:33 PM

George Babbitt: You like that term?


Been calling myself an apatheist ever since I first heard the term (and right before I started The God Delusion, which I have several problems with).

// it's a position I reasoned myself into; I was calling it "a modified Pascal's Wager" until a friend dropped that term
 
2013-02-07 03:15:08 PM

SkunkWerks: Apatheosis


If you meant Apotheosis, I did not mean that or Apatheosis. Apatheist is a made up word I came across a few years ago to refer to the reality of most 'atheists', that most are not true atheists, but rather apathetic non-believers who act with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity.
 
2013-02-07 03:15:37 PM

hinten: Lutherans?

In any other country they are the most liberal libs that ever religioned.

I wonder what Luther would say about this.


Luther supported the massacre of thousands of peasants, so he probably would just go, meh.
 
2013-02-07 03:16:00 PM

Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


Not one of those prohibitions comes from Jesus.

Three of them are Jewish in origin:
1) Are Jewish commandments binding on Christians?
2) Does the Jewish God count as a "false god" as far as these prohibitions are concerned?
If you answered "yes" to number 2, then there can be no justification for answering "yes" to number 1.
 
2013-02-07 03:16:51 PM

Dr Dreidel: George Babbitt: You like that term?

Been calling myself an apatheist ever since I first heard the term (and right before I started The God Delusion, which I have several problems with).

// it's a position I reasoned myself into; I was calling it "a modified Pascal's Wager" until a friend dropped that term


How apropos then the verse that says "For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom "
 
2013-02-07 03:17:13 PM

PsiChick: ...How the hell do you do a 'fire and brimstone wedding'?


Step 1 - Pregnant bride, load shotgun
Step 2 - Thunder and lightning during sermon (probably coincidental)
Step 3 - "You think you know each other well now, just wait until you spend the rest of your lives together!

People that attended that as a couple left separately.  There were a bunch of very scared college kids.

Couple is still together after 25 years and 6 kids so it turned out all right.

/Groom was my roommate sophmore year.
 
2013-02-07 03:17:14 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: I could go for some coffee and lemon bars...


DIE HERETIC! (Which is German for "The heretic!")
 
2013-02-07 03:17:34 PM
These religion threads never focus on the one guy being an asshole and immediately turn into an indictment and attack on religion (specifically Christianity).  I'm not the most religious person in the world but just because one guy was a jackass, doesn't mean all religious people are.

In any large population it is easy to pick individual targets or outliers and attribute their qualities on the entire population.  This type of generalization and stereotyping is the foundation of the bigotry and intolerance that is usually attacked on these boards in other circumstances.
 
2013-02-07 03:20:34 PM
PsiChick:
...How the hell do you do a 'fire and brimstone wedding'?

Very carefully.
 
2013-02-07 03:20:39 PM
I dont think this is against the rules... but I would like to post the PUBLIC (not private) contact information  this way you can write them an email and tell them what you think.

Here it is:
LCMS Church Information Center
888-843-5267 (888-THE-LCMS)
in­focent­er[nospam-﹫-backwards]sm­c­l*org
 
2013-02-07 03:20:41 PM
pciszek:
1) Are Jewish commandments binding on Christians?
2) Does the Jewish God count as a "false god" as far as these prohibitions are concerned?
If you answered "yes" to number 2, then there can be no justification for answering "yes" to number 1.



1) No.
2) No.
3)Mark 12:29-30 ""The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."
 
2013-02-07 03:21:53 PM

redundantman: DIE HERETIC! (Which is German for "The heretic!")


Are heretics feminine?
 
2013-02-07 03:22:22 PM

VodkaGimlet: mrmyxolodian: tallguywithglasseson: Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it: Missouri Synod

Was going to say, either Missouri or Wisconsin.

I thought WELS. I know they have similar rules.
My wife is a recovering member of that church. Sad, sad stuff they indoctrinate them with,

I expected WELS, myself, but someone pointed out that anyone from the WI synod wouldn't have even gone in the first place, and I remembered.  I was dragged to a WELS church until I was 18 and could put my foot down properly.

Now I sleep in on Sundays.  It's awesome.


I've found that Buddhism gives you all the great stuff from the Sermon on the Mount without any of the guilt and bigotry. You just have to ignore the rebirth/karma talk. Luckily most western teachers don't subscribe to that mumbo jumbo anyway.
 
2013-02-07 03:22:56 PM

demarke: These religion threads never focus on the one guy being an asshole and immediately turn into an indictment and attack on religion (specifically Christianity).  I'm not the most religious person in the world but just because one guy was a jackass, doesn't mean all religious people are.


his church bars its clergy from worshipping with other faiths.
 
2013-02-07 03:23:37 PM
What's assinine is that mankind has given Jesus and God a bad rap with their dumbass man-made dogma and doctrine. Crap, all crap! Where is Sodom and Gomorrah when you really need them? That's where these idiots belong with Pastor? Fred Phelps at the head of the line. He is evil incarnate.
 
2013-02-07 03:23:57 PM

Deucednuisance: enry: Wife was ELCA before we both went Episcopal.

Mrs. Nuisance's grandfather was a Baptist Lay Deacon.

He would have called you "Whiskeypalians".

CSB-i-L!


Heh, I'm Episcopal. Growing up, my Dad gave our priest a bottle of Harvey Bristol Cream every Christmas.. Also what my wife and I gave him when he married us.
 
2013-02-07 03:24:45 PM

George Babbitt: Mark 12:29-30 ""The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."


Kind of ironic, then, that one of the first major acts of the New Christianity was to split god into three (and that's Deuteronomy 6:8-9, IIRC).

// I thought the Christians translated that as "...the lord our god, the lord ALONE" to avoid that weirdness
 
2013-02-07 03:26:06 PM

mrmyxolodian:

I've found that Buddhism gives you all the great stuff from the Sermon on the Mount without any of the guilt and bigotry. You just have to ignore the rebirth/karma talk.


oh man, I like all that stuff...

And someone really need to open up a Karma Cafe.

You come in and sit down and they serve you what you deserve.

It could range from filet mignon and potatoes to a cold tuna fish sandwich with stale chips.

gimmicky? You betcha
 
2013-02-07 03:26:27 PM

George Babbitt: If you meant Apotheosis


No.

I meant Apatheosis.

George Babbitt: I did not mean that or Apatheosis


Yeah, but I did.  I like port, man.  Toe the line!

George Babbitt: the reality


Oh dear...
 
2013-02-07 03:26:30 PM

Voiceofreason01: Kyosuke:
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

--Emo Phillips

Awww, it's so sad because it's often so true.

/at least the Lutheran Church of America is still OK


The ELCA is only vaguely Lutheran anymore. The degree depends on the particular congregation. From what I have seen, it's pretty much "anything goes".

/In no way saying that LC-MS is making a good call on this particular news story, however
 
2013-02-07 03:27:35 PM

Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


Yeah except in this specific case no one was worshiping a false God. Jews were for Jehovah, Christians for God, and Muslims for Allah. Last time I checked they were all the same God, just with different prophets, Moses, Mohammad, and Jesus. In fact most of those are taken from the Old testament which is also known as the Torah, which is the main book for Jewish faith. Your copying the Jewish Gods words to prop up your Christian Gods law.

Does Christianity define Jesus as God and therefore if your NOT worshiping him your WRONG, yes. But in the end every Jew, Muslim, and Christian is still worshiping the same deity,

Quite being a jackass, go back and read religious history, then come back and have a real conversation.
 
2013-02-07 03:28:13 PM
What's the difference between religion and superstition?

Anyone?
 
2013-02-07 03:28:29 PM
Because hating your neighbor is more important than children's souls.
 
2013-02-07 03:29:03 PM

demarke: These religion threads never focus on the one guy being an asshole and immediately turn into an indictment and attack on religion (specifically Christianity).  I'm not the most religious person in the world but just because one guy was a jackass, doesn't mean all religious people are.


In this case, it was the leadership of the Missouri Synod that were being jackasses, and this clergyman meekly submitted to them.  So, more than one guy.

To draw a parallel with another thread going on, not every Catholic priest is a child molester, but when the cardinal who wrote the memo about concealing the abuse and quietly shuffling the guilty priests to other assignments where they would still have access to children gets elected Pope, the entire church has a problem.
 
2013-02-07 03:30:02 PM

tallguywithglasseson: CSB, my (imaginary Canadian) girlfriend was brought up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.
She switched to Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), which despite the common connotation of "evangelical", is quite liberal.

Now when she visits home & goes to her parents' church (also her former church), she isn't allowed to take communion.

Apparently the Missouri and Wisconsin synods are pretty far right. I'd had no idea about any of this Lutheran stuff before.


LC-MS suffered a bit of a schism back in the seventies, look up "Seminex" on Wikipedia sometimes. A lot of good minds left because of that. Pretty sad chapter in the history of the organization.
 
2013-02-07 03:30:56 PM
I don't know if anyone else in this thread said this or something similar, but hell yes, Jesus Christ hates that.
 
2013-02-07 03:31:33 PM

pciszek: Not one of those prohibitions comes from Jesus.

Three of them are Jewish in origin:
1) Are Jewish commandments binding on Christians?
2) Does the Jewish God count as a "false god" as far as these prohibitions are concerned?
If you answered "yes" to number 2, then there can be no justification for answering "yes" to number 1.



Well.... a resounding maybe. The problem is on the one hand Jesus' teachings come in to pretty direct conflict with the old testament... but on the other hand he also explicitly said not one word of the old testament was being overturned by his teachings, it's all supposed to still be in force.

But being that it's all made up bullshiat the truth is that whoever wrote the Jesus parts had some good philosophy they wanted people to live by, needed to shoehorn it in to an existing religion and were going to have to have some conflicts with the old religion because it's pretty damn barbaric if you actually examine it. But we're talking about "faith" here, so none of that really mattered much in the final analysis.

Christians would have a far more (or at all) internally consistent religion if they just ditched the old testament.
 
2013-02-07 03:31:43 PM
Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God
 
2013-02-07 03:31:46 PM

mongbiohazard: wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change?  When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular?  Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences.  Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)


Indeed, according to the mythos the only way to salvation is through worship of Jehova and devotion to the teachings of Jesus - BUT you're missing the part of his teachings where he instructed everyone to be tolerant of one another and not to be obnoxious about their faith. You're supposed to live humbly according to his teachings so that when people notice how nice you always are and how you seem to be able to handle the things life throws at you and they ask you why, THEN you're supposed to tell them, "Jesus". But until then, Christians are absolutely supposed to be tolerant and friendly with people of other faiths.

Which really isn't such a bad set of teachings in general (some of the specifics are pretty terrible, like Jesus' approval of slavery). The problem is, so very few people who claim to be followers of Christ give a shiat about his teachings. And those who scream about their devotion the loudest usually seem to be the ones who in reality shiat all over those teachings the most.

Matthew 6:5


Yeah, but for every one of those, there are several "spread the word, don't put your light under a bushel" sort of verses.
 
2013-02-07 03:32:17 PM

busy chillin': And someone really need to open up a Karma Cafe.

You come in and sit down and they serve you what you deserve.

It could range from filet mignon and potatoes to a cold tuna fish sandwich with stale chips.

gimmicky? You betcha


Why should I pay money to experience my just punishment?  It'll happen anyway.
 
2013-02-07 03:32:17 PM

Anderson's Pooper: PsiChick: ...How the hell do you do a 'fire and brimstone wedding'?

Step 1 - Pregnant bride, load shotgun
Step 2 - Thunder and lightning during sermon (probably coincidental)
Step 3 - "You think you know each other well now, just wait until you spend the rest of your lives together!

People that attended that as a couple left separately.  There were a bunch of very scared college kids.

Couple is still together after 25 years and 6 kids so it turned out all right.

/Groom was my roommate sophmore year.


...Welp, that's terrifying.

Inflatable Rhetoric: What's the difference between religion and superstition?

Anyone?


You could go take an Anthropology course, or you could just Google.
 
2013-02-07 03:32:32 PM

mongbiohazard: pciszek: Not one of those prohibitions comes from Jesus.

Three of them are Jewish in origin:
1) Are Jewish commandments binding on Christians?
2) Does the Jewish God count as a "false god" as far as these prohibitions are concerned?
If you answered "yes" to number 2, then there can be no justification for answering "yes" to number 1.


Well.... a resounding maybe. The problem is on the one hand Jesus' teachings come in to pretty direct conflict with the old testament... but on the other hand he also explicitly said not one word of the old testament was being overturned by his teachings, it's all supposed to still be in force.

But being that it's all made up bullshiat the truth is that whoever wrote the Jesus parts had some good philosophy they wanted people to live by, needed to shoehorn it in to an existing religion and were going to have to have some conflicts with the old religion because it's pretty damn barbaric if you actually examine it. But we're talking about "faith" here, so none of that really mattered much in the final analysis.

Christians would have a far more (or at all) internally consistent religion if they just ditched the old testament.


Ditch the OT and the NT.  Much better.
 
2013-02-07 03:33:26 PM

Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God


I know all I need to know about god.

The more I learn, the less I like him.
 
2013-02-07 03:33:34 PM

Mcaffolder: Does Christianity define Jesus as God and therefore if your NOT worshiping him your WRONG, yes. But in the end every Jew, Muslim, and Christian is still worshiping the same deity,


No, you're wrong for not accepting Jesus as your savior. If you do not do this, you will go to hell.
 
2013-02-07 03:33:38 PM

George Babbitt: Listening to armchair theologians and apatheists(not a typo)talk about these things is painful.


So rev, you comedian, school us in the way of the lord.
 
2013-02-07 03:34:28 PM

Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God


my eyes rolled out of my head

and


do you feel better now? Thinking you get to go to Heaven and kick it with Jesus while we all burn forever. Just warms your heart, doesn't it?
 
2013-02-07 03:34:50 PM
Oreamnos:
The ELCA is only vaguely Lutheran anymore. The degree depends on the particular congregation. From what I have seen, it's pretty much "anything goes".

The ELCA has really run with the love and Christian Grace parts of Christianity(although things do vary a bit between congregations). I do not consider this a bad thing.

/agnostic, grew up ELCA
 
2013-02-07 03:35:16 PM

MaliFinn: Because hating your neighbor is more important than children's souls.


It is. Jesus told us all that we should hate our families if they will not follow him.
 
2013-02-07 03:36:00 PM

Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


You are correct. However, at the interfaith service in question, three faiths are listed: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. All three, according to their own scripture (I've read the Qur'an in addition to Jewish texts because one cannot understand even basic Christianity without understanding Jewish law and customs), openly state that they worship the same God--the God of Abraham. Judaism and Christianity descend through lineage and through promise through Isaac from Abraham, and Islam descends through lineage and through promise through Ishmael:

"[...] So when I went (over the seventh heaven),there I saw Abraham.Gabriel said (to me), 'This is your father; pay your greetings to him.'So I greeted him and he returned the greetings to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious son and pious Prophet.'Then I was made to ascend to Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (i.e. the Lote Tree of the utmost boundary) Behold! Its fruits were like the jars of Hajr (i.e. a place near Medina) and its leaves were as big as the ears of elephants. Gabriel said, 'This is the Lote Tree of the utmost boundary) . Behold ! There ran four rivers, two were hidden and two were visible, I asked, 'What are these two kinds of rivers, O Gabriel?' He replied,' As for the hidden rivers, they are two rivers in Paradise and the visible rivers are the Nile and the Euphrates.' [...]" (Sahih Bukhari 5:58:227)

So it is not even a matter of praying with those who worship, say, Zeus. This is a matter of praying with others who worship the same God we do, but who do not worship him in the same way and who do not necessarily (assuming the Jewish representatives were not Messianic) believe, as we do, that Jesus is the savior and means by which one enters into heaven and gets to have their "sky cake." Not only was the apology unnecessary under the circumstances of the community tragedy, it was unnecessary and, frankly, idiotic under the circumstances of matters of faith and spiritual truth considering we worship the same God!

Someone might want to also point that out to Fox News the next time they get on a brown people rant... and also to the people trying to kill us for worshipping the same God in a different way while we're being all fair about it.
 
2013-02-07 03:36:02 PM

pciszek: busy chillin': And someone really need to open up a Karma Cafe.

You come in and sit down and they serve you what you deserve.

It could range from filet mignon and potatoes to a cold tuna fish sandwich with stale chips.

gimmicky? You betcha

Why should I pay money to experience my just punishment?  It'll happen anyway.


because it would be funny and fun. I don't know. Maybe it is one of those "sounds better in my head" things.
 
2013-02-07 03:36:50 PM

Onkel Buck: But we are still cool with the way Sharia torments women right?


Not at all, but you seem cool with douche baggery. Funny this story kinda proves that you can't lump a whole religion (or sect) into one stereotype kinda just how you just did.

Bravo.
 
2013-02-07 03:36:56 PM

Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God


www.ericcressey.com
 
2013-02-07 03:38:09 PM
Reason will always win because religion is dumb.
 
2013-02-07 03:38:26 PM

PsiChick: ...How the hell do you do a 'fire and brimstone wedding'?


"I am not here to celebrate your marriage, I am here to proclaim that you are both going to hell if you divorce!"
 
2013-02-07 03:40:34 PM

wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change?  When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular?  Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences.  Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)


Yah but where did he say, don't hang around the Jews and the Pagans?
 
2013-02-07 03:40:39 PM
Worst Prarie Home Companion skit ever
 
2013-02-07 03:40:44 PM

Aigoo: Judaism and Christianity descend through lineage and through promise through Isaac from Abraham, and Islam descends through lineage and through promise through Ishmael:


If Judaism, Christianity, and Islam descended by heredity, why can people convert?
 
2013-02-07 03:41:12 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Reason will always win because religion is dumb.


If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.
 
2013-02-07 03:42:18 PM

busy chillin': Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God

my eyes rolled out of my head

and


do you feel better now? Thinking you get to go to Heaven and kick it with Jesus while we all burn forever. Just warms your heart, doesn't it?


ignoring the truth in the statement and trying to cast guilt toward me does not change anything. nice try
 
2013-02-07 03:42:56 PM

lennavan: ecmoRandomNumbers: Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.

My understanding is there are some crazy sects of Lutheranism.  I was raised Lutheran and taught quite the opposite of what's being told in this article.  The church I went to recognized all Christian faiths and welcomed them all in.  While I was still there one of the members became an ordained pastor - and she was... a she.  The pastor in charge of the church also had a wife and kids.

I've since converted to Pastafarianism but there are at least some sane versions of Lutheranism out there.


The same pastor as the "she", or a different pastor?

If it was just "some other (male) pastor," that's fairly common in Protestant churches.  The interpretation of Paul's teachings on the topic of church leadership is more or less, "if you can't manage to keep your own family sane, safe, and emotionally healthy, how are you EVAR gonna be a guide and friend to an entire church?"  As such, all (or nearly all?) of our elected leader-type-people are married with kids.

I've never figured out the Catholic thing, where the dudes with no spouses and no children and no experience at raising a family are supposed to be the infallible experts at home life.
 
2013-02-07 03:42:59 PM

Dr Dreidel: George Babbitt: Mark 12:29-30 ""The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

Kind of ironic, then, that one of the first major acts of the New Christianity was to split god into three (and that's Deuteronomy 6:8-9, IIRC).

// I thought the Christians translated that as "...the lord our god, the lord ALONE" to avoid that weirdness


Cute. I'm not getting into the Trinity with you and name you have, no offense.
 
2013-02-07 03:43:58 PM
George Babbitt: ...the reality of most 'atheists', that most are not true atheists, but rather apathetic non-believers who act with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity.

Not this "true atheist" sh*t again.
 
2013-02-07 03:44:08 PM

Onkel Buck: But we are still cool with the way Sharia torments women right?


Nobody here was ever cool with that. Take your dishonesty elsewhere.
 
2013-02-07 03:44:59 PM
Our WELS church wasn't that bad when my wife and I started going there 12 years ago. But slowly went off the deep end. Few weeks ago they had a sermon about how befriending the ghey's will weaken your family. My wife who is very conservative told off the pastor (who also baptized our son) that some of our best friends are gay couples with kids and we were done with the church since they are basically teaching to hate people and Jesus taught to love and care for all people. He said it sounded like the devil has entered our heart since we now allow our son to be around gay kids.
 
2013-02-07 03:45:48 PM

All2morrowsparTs: wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change?  When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular?  Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences.  Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)

Yah but where did he say, don't hang around the Jews and the Pagans?

"Do you really think you can steal, murder, commit adultery, lie, and burn incense to Baal and all those other new gods of yours, and then come here and stand before me in my Temple and chant, 'We are safe!' - only to go right back to all those evils again?"

(Jer. 7:9-10, NLT)
 
2013-02-07 03:47:01 PM

Voiceofreason01: Oreamnos:
The ELCA is only vaguely Lutheran anymore. The degree depends on the particular congregation. From what I have seen, it's pretty much "anything goes".

The ELCA has really run with the love and Christian Grace parts of Christianity(although things do vary a bit between congregations). I do not consider this a bad thing.

/agnostic, grew up ELCA


I should say that I have not really lined up the exact theological difference b/t ELCA and LCMS. My impression is based on worship experiences. I grew up LCMS and I am not ashamed to say that I love the Lutheran liturgy and traditional Lutheran hymnody, and I find that those two things mediate the spiritual for me in a way that nothing else does in my life. Where I currently live I have been to numerous ELCA churches and the worship services have almost uniformly disappointed in one way or another. One congregation might as well have been Baptist, there was practically an altar call at the end. Unfortunately I had to stand up and walk out of an LCMS service once several years ago when the pastor started in on how gay marriage would destroy society. It saddens me when LCMS makes the news for stupidity like this.
 
2013-02-07 03:47:15 PM

Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


So wait, which god is the write one the Jewish and Musliim god of Exodus, Isiah, Hosea, and for that matter Jesus, and Mohamed or the god of Christian which is Jesus? Beucasue I'm sure tree of those quotes were dictated before Jesus was ever born.
 
2013-02-07 03:47:52 PM
Waldo Pepper

ignoring the truth in the statement and trying to cast guilt toward me does not change anything. nice try

Thanks!

I hope you have indeed chosen the correct religion and God. Good luck.
 
2013-02-07 03:50:01 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.


Long time ago.

This started in the late 1960s / early 1970s.

The fundamentalists took over, and at first there was a seminary in exile. That got disbanded, and the Missouri Synod has been going more and more towards fundamentalist, we're the only right approach since then.

I saw placard on one Lutheran church (may have been Swedish Synod) that if you didn't believe exactly as they believed, you were not welcome to worship there.

This is a huge difference from what my great Uncle used to say about man's ability to comprehend the Divine and the difference between knowledge and faith.

This is one of the many reasons why I am no longer a part of the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. As Oreamnos mentioned, look up Seminex (Seminary in Exile). For me, that was the end of the Lutheran Church.

/ not so cool story, bro
 
2013-02-07 03:50:11 PM

busy chillin': Waldo Pepper

ignoring the truth in the statement and trying to cast guilt toward me does not change anything. nice try

Thanks!

I hope you have indeed chosen the correct religion and God. Good luck.


no luck needed but thank you for the kind though
 
2013-02-07 03:50:15 PM
Missouri Synod?

I'm surprised Pastor Harrison didn't tear out his heart and offer it to Kali before lowering him into their central lava pit for this offense.
 
2013-02-07 03:50:39 PM

George Babbitt: pciszek:
1) Are Jewish commandments binding on Christians?
2) Does the Jewish God count as a "false god" as far as these prohibitions are concerned?
If you answered "yes" to number 2, then there can be no justification for answering "yes" to number 1.


1) No.
2) No.
3)Mark 12:29-30 ""The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."


So why then the focus on the 10 commandments?
 
2013-02-07 03:51:04 PM

George Babbitt: pciszek:
1) Are Jewish commandments binding on Christians?
2) Does the Jewish God count as a "false god" as far as these prohibitions are concerned?
If you answered "yes" to number 2, then there can be no justification for answering "yes" to number 1.


1) No.
2) No.
3)Mark 12:29-30 ""The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."


Must have missed Matt 5:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teachthem, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And Exodus:

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for itis a sign between me and you throughout your generations; thatye may know that Iam the LORD that doth sanctify you.14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for itis holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doethany work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.15Six days may work be done; but in the seventhis the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doethany work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations,for a perpetual covenant.17Itis a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: forin six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

And Romans:

11I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation  has come to the Gentiles.12Now if their fall  is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy  those who are my flesh and save some of them.15For if their being cast away  is the reconciling of the world, what  will their acceptance  be but life from the dead?

16For if the firstfruit  is holy, the lump  is also  holy; and if the root  is holy, so  are the branches.17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast,  remember that you do not support the root, but the root  supports you.

19You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."20Well  said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in  His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who  are natural  branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

As those grafted in to the tree, we do have some requirements--one of which is to keep certain commandments, such as the Sabbath. If Jesus said that not one of the two smallest strokes in the entire Hebrew written language would pass from the Law until heaven and earth passed away, I'm inclined to rely more on what He said than what some preacher says so he can justify his use of "permissive grace" to act like an ass Monday through Saturday. Keeping the Sabbath, the day of rest, is a perpetual covenant and commandment that doesn't just go away--it was kept even after the crucifixion, so I think I'll just go ahead and stick with that.


TL;DR--yes, there are some Jewish commandments that are binding on Christians. Keeping the Sabbath, not eating blood, anything offered to idols or anything that has been strangled (our only eating prohibitions), loving the Lord our God (who is one, not three) with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and loving others--being merciful and not judging (scripture says to love others as we love ourselves, but I would say to love others more than we love ourselves because we often are very hard on ourselves--far harder than we are on others). These are actually commandments and they are what the entirety of Jewish Law boils down to in a nutshell.
 
2013-02-07 03:51:21 PM
To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell? Nothing is known till the last day, when all will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and give account. Some will have an advocate in Christ, some who never leaned of him will stand or fall on their own deeds, some who lived before Him get a pass for living as God told them and some are a 'law unto themselves'. So it tells us in the last book of the Bible. The final story on each of us is not written until the last chapter is written. It's a sliding scale with more confidence on some paths, and less confidence on others. Yet, not one person has been eternally condemned to this day. God wishes to make all things right, and so the possibility and likelihood of that happening is high before the end comes for this age. Just sayin.
 
2013-02-07 03:51:36 PM

jigger: Aigoo: Judaism and Christianity descend through lineage and through promise through Isaac from Abraham, and Islam descends through lineage and through promise through Ishmael:

If Judaism, Christianity, and Islam descended by heredity, why can people convert?


Rules revisions implemented by Jesus and Mohammed. Supposedly.

Jews still stick to that line-of-the-mother thing.
 
2013-02-07 03:52:16 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Reason will always win because religion is dumb.


Indeed.  You don't need to believe in evolution for it to make you extinct.
 
2013-02-07 03:55:21 PM

d23: Sass-O-Rev: Earguy: You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.

So very much, "this."

Not only that.. but it's the Bible that said it, not God.


If they follow everything in the bible, they haven't read the old testament. Or they are insane, take your pick.
 
2013-02-07 03:56:41 PM

jigger: Aigoo: Judaism and Christianity descend through lineage and through promise through Isaac from Abraham, and Islam descends through lineage and through promise through Ishmael:

If Judaism, Christianity, and Islam descended by heredity, why can people convert?


Because you cherry picked and didn't read the "through lineage and through promise." But I'll presume you're at work and therefore busy. ;)
 
2013-02-07 03:56:45 PM

wellreadneck: Yeah, but for every one of those, there are several "spread the word, don't put your light under a bushel" sort of verses.



Right, like I was saying it's not a resounding yes or no, it's a big fat maybe because the religion has a lot of inconsistencies. It says one thing in one place, then turns around and contradicts it in another. It's almost as if a bunch of people were adding their own bits to it over the years and there was no force guiding them all into one consistent narrative as they wrote it.

Weird, right?

Inflatable Rhetoric: Ditch the OT and the NT.  Much better.



You're not going to have to work hard to convince me of that. I don't believe in any supernatural mumbo-jumbo, and think the concept of "faith" in general is a poison to our minds.


Waldo Pepper: All2morrowsparTs: wellreadneck: Not a churchgoer myself, but when did one of the basic tenets of the majority of Chrisianity change?  When did the notion that Christ had no problem with the competition become so popular?  Sure, Christ was fairly tolerant of sinners, but he did insruct them to stop that stuffor suffer dire consequences.  Was there a part where he said there were several paths to heaven? I only remember hearing things like "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'." (John 14:6)

Yah but where did he say, don't hang around the Jews and the Pagans?

"Do you really think you can steal, murder, commit adultery, lie, and burn incense to Baal and all those other new gods of yours, and then come here and stand before me in my Temple and chant, 'We are safe!' - only to go right back to all those evils again?" (Jer. 7:9-10, NLT)


You'll need to try again. That verse you quoted isn't saying what you're presenting it as saying. It's simply saying you can't just sin and come back and pretend to me (well, Jesus) like you didn't. It doesn't at all say that you're not supposed to associate with people from other religions, and it certainly doesn't say that such association is a sin.
 
2013-02-07 03:57:49 PM

George Babbitt: Cute. I'm not getting into the Trinity with you and name you have, no offense.


None taken. I noticed you used the actual translation ("echad" in Hebrew means "one", as opposed to the ordinal "levad", meaning "alone") and I wondered if the alternate translation was the standard or not.

// and just to move things along, there's a famous part of the Talmud where a guy asks one of the leading sages to teach him "the whole Torah" while he (the guy, not the sage) stood on one foot
// the sage responds: "'That which is distasteful to you, do not do to your neighbor.' The rest is extrapolation; go and learn [it]!"
 
2013-02-07 03:57:56 PM
Oreamnos:
I should say that I have not really lined up the exact theological difference b/t ELCA and LCMS. My impression is based on worship experiences. I grew up LCMS and I am not ashamed to say that I love the Lutheran liturgy and traditional Lutheran hymnody, and I find that those two things mediate the spiritual for me in a way that nothing else does in my life. Where I currently live I have been to numerous ELCA churches and the worship services have almost uniformly disappointed in one way or another. One congregation might as well have been Baptist, there was practically an altar call at the end. Unfortunately I had to stand up and walk out of an LCMS service once several years ago when the pastor started in on how gay marriage would destroy society. It saddens me when LCMS makes the news for stupidity like this.

Theologically speaking they're pretty close but LCMS follow a pretty literal interpretation of the Bible and tend to be very conservative socially. The ELCA mostly doesn't follow the Bible literally(and incorporates scholarly interpretation and historical context into it's understanding of the Bible), has pretty liberal views on a lot of social issues(including abortion, other religions and sexuality) and ordains women and LGBT folk.
 
2013-02-07 03:58:00 PM

dv-ous: If Judaism, Christianity, and Islam descended by heredity, why can people convert?

Rules revisions implemented by Jesus and Mohammed. Supposedly.

Jews still stick to that line-of-the-mother thing.


Even the orthodox recognize converts to Judaism.

Well, some of them do, anyway.
 
2013-02-07 03:58:01 PM
The only thing I got outta this miserable repeatocrap thread was a nice Farky for TV's Vinnie.
 
2013-02-07 03:59:27 PM
All2morrowsparTs:

So why then the focus on the 10 commandments?

Aigoo:

Must have missed Matt 5:


The answer is found in Acts 15 which was leveled against the Judaiszers.

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ...that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."
 
2013-02-07 03:59:47 PM

PirateKing: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Raised in Missouri Synod. Practicing Deist. 'Nuf Said

How does one practice deism?

"Oh vague, disinterested, disconnected, unknown, possible creator of the universe, please continue to ignore my prayers..."


I walked into that one, and I'm enough of a man to admit you snarked me.

+1 to you sir
 
2013-02-07 04:00:54 PM

George Babbitt: To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell? Nothing is known till the last day, when all will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and give account. Some will have an advocate in Christ, some who never leaned of him will stand or fall on their own deeds, some who lived before Him get a pass for living as God told them and some are a 'law unto themselves'. So it tells us in the last book of the Bible. The final story on each of us is not written until the last chapter is written. It's a sliding scale with more confidence on some paths, and less confidence on others. Yet, not one person has been eternally condemned to this day. God wishes to make all things right, and so the possibility and likelihood of that happening is high before the end comes for this age. Just sayin.


Thank you, Pastor Babbitt, for informing us poor heathens on how God wishes for us to be judged, as it says in the Holy Bible.  Whatever would us withered souls, shrouded in the dark cloak of Satan's illusions, do without your enlightening words of spiritual wisdom?
 
2013-02-07 04:01:38 PM
I knew it would be LCMS.  I grew up LCMS and went K-8 to a Lutheran school.  I attended here for a few years and it always pissed me off with there was the yearly "gays are going to hell" sermon and the badmouthing of the local "interfaith breakfast" that the local congregations would put on.

Switched to ELCA a few years ago and they're pretty hippy, which I'm ok with.  I do miss the Matins order of service sometimes, though.
 
2013-02-07 04:02:28 PM
Dr Dreidel:
// the sage responds: "'That which is distasteful to you, do not do to your neighbor.' The rest is extrapolation; go and learn [it]!"

Matt 22:39 "And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
 
2013-02-07 04:02:31 PM

BigSnatch: *Sigh*, being logically consistent with your faith's teachings is obviously much more important than showing support in a time of tragedy.


I was unaware such a thing was even possible.  Unfortunately, that is completely lost on your typical believer.

/farking tribal sky religions, why are they still here?
 
2013-02-07 04:03:23 PM

dv-ous: jigger: Aigoo: Judaism and Christianity descend through lineage and through promise through Isaac from Abraham, and Islam descends through lineage and through promise through Ishmael:

If Judaism, Christianity, and Islam descended by heredity, why can people convert?

Rules revisions implemented by Jesus and Mohammed. Supposedly.

Jews still stick to that line-of-the-mother thing.


Us Jews do actually have a process for conversion, by the way. It's not as quick and easy as the christian "ok I'm christian now", but there is indeed a process. Just thought I'd throw that in there.
 
2013-02-07 04:03:49 PM

Dr Dreidel: George Babbitt: Cute. I'm not getting into the Trinity with you and name you have, no offense.

None taken. I noticed you used the actual translation ("echad" in Hebrew means "one", as opposed to the ordinal "levad", meaning "alone") and I wondered if the alternate translation was the standard or not.

// and just to move things along, there's a famous part of the Talmud where a guy asks one of the leading sages to teach him "the whole Torah" while he (the guy, not the sage) stood on one foot
// the sage responds: "'That which is distasteful to you, do not do to your neighbor.' The rest is extrapolation; go and learn [it]!"


Given the anti-Semitism still inherenet in the Church, it would not surprise me if it has been changed to the alternate. But no, mine still uses the original translation, meaning "one." It's a point I have argued (and been tossed out of a few churches for arguing) for a long time--that God is not 3, but 1. But this is not the thread for that discussion, I don't think.
 
2013-02-07 04:03:52 PM
Dammit, can't you people go back to hating Catholics? There is much more of them to aim your unresolved childhood memories and socially acceptable bigotry at.

I mean, I know guys... "Welcome to Fark," but damn, when we get on the subject of Mormons and gays around here... I'm not entirely sure who is going to lynch who.

I think we should all at least come to one fundamental agreement, the next ethnic cleansing in this hemisphere will eventually be traced back to a greenlighted post on the politics tab.

On that subject, have those diplomats found a way to get this otherwise pleasant ship in danger of being sunk, yet? I've been surprised I haven't heard of any legal trolling yet.
 
2013-02-07 04:04:16 PM

Waldo Pepper: busy chillin': Waldo Pepper

ignoring the truth in the statement and trying to cast guilt toward me does not change anything. nice try

Thanks!

I hope you have indeed chosen the correct religion and God. Good luck.

no luck needed but thank you for the kind though


Good stuff.
 
2013-02-07 04:04:21 PM
HortusMatris:

Thank you, Pastor Babbitt, for informing us poor heathens on how God wishes for us to be judged, as it says in the Holy Bible.  Whatever would us withered souls, shrouded in the dark cloak of Satan's illusions, do without your enlightening words of spiritual wisdom?

That was not meant to be condescending, though I can see how it would be viewed as such. I was just sayin that there is nothing to what some may say regarding the current final place for anybody.
 
2013-02-07 04:04:26 PM

Waldo Pepper: busy chillin': Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God

my eyes rolled out of my head

and


do you feel better now? Thinking you get to go to Heaven and kick it with Jesus while we all burn forever. Just warms your heart, doesn't it?

ignoring the truth in the statement and trying to cast guilt toward me does not change anything. nice try


Holy shiat, we have troll factor 5! Repeat: troll factor 5!!
 
2013-02-07 04:05:43 PM
Odin spoke to me and he says, "fark off."
 
2013-02-07 04:06:37 PM

George Babbitt: Dr Dreidel:
// the sage responds: "'That which is distasteful to you, do not do to your neighbor.' The rest is extrapolation; go and learn [it]!"

Matt 22:39 "And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."


Which is originally in Exodus, itself probably plagiarized from a handful of earlier works.

// and 'round and 'round we go
// fun fact: The Talmud also contains the aphorism "there are larger goats to broil" (since updated, for some reason, to fish frying)
 
2013-02-07 04:06:49 PM

George Babbitt: All2morrowsparTs:

So why then the focus on the 10 commandments?

Aigoo:

Must have missed Matt 5:


The answer is found in Acts 15 which was leveled against the Judaiszers.

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ...that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."


Which is referring specifically to the people being told their salvation is invalid unless they learn all the Law of Moses, eat only what is permitted under the Law of Moses, and are circumcised.

I'm extraordinarily well-versed in this discussion, having had it quarterly with Hebrew roots movement advocates. Go re-read the passage, in context. Then we'll talk. It does not discard the statements of Christ at all and if you think it does... I can't help you.
 
2013-02-07 04:06:54 PM

pciszek: Deucednuisance: More like "meeting with people who believe in the exact same invisible sky daddy, but their fan club has slightly different by-laws".

There are Christians who would vehemently deny that Christians, Muslims, and Jews worship the same god.  I have also encountered Jews who hold this position, and I suspect there are Muslims who would also.  Hell, this guy's Missouri Synod probably does not recognize Catholics as worshiping the same god.


Somebody needs to nail this to the guy's church door.  Maybe 95 times.

i307.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-07 04:07:26 PM

mongbiohazard: dv-ous: jigger: Aigoo: Judaism and Christianity descend through lineage and through promise through Isaac from Abraham, and Islam descends through lineage and through promise through Ishmael:

If Judaism, Christianity, and Islam descended by heredity, why can people convert?

Rules revisions implemented by Jesus and Mohammed. Supposedly.

Jews still stick to that line-of-the-mother thing.

Us Jews do actually have a process for conversion, by the way. It's not as quick and easy as the christian "ok I'm christian now", but there is indeed a process. Just thought I'd throw that in there.


IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?
 
2013-02-07 04:07:37 PM
The only thing about this situation that surprises me about this is the fact that so many of you are surprised about it. Ecumenicalism has been a dire evil in certain circles since before "ecumenicalism" was even a word.

Heck, just read what Paul had to say about anyone who adhered to essentially the same religion but had slightly different soteriological ideas....
 
2013-02-07 04:08:24 PM

George Babbitt: SkunkWerks: Apatheosis

If you meant Apotheosis, I did not mean that or Apatheosis. Apatheist is a made up word I came across a few years ago to refer to the reality of most 'atheists', that most are not true atheists, but rather apathetic non-believers who act with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity.


All words are made-up. Aren't those people just agnostics
 
2013-02-07 04:08:34 PM

Aigoo: But this is not the thread for that discussion, I don't think.


Certainly not, but thanks for clearing up the deal with the translation. I think it was something my brother caught while attending summer school at a Catholic high school, and I wondered how widespread it was - for the very same reason you were tossed from Church.
 
2013-02-07 04:11:34 PM

jigger: IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?


We don't believe in eternal damnation, but we do have a heaven and a hell. The concept of reward/punishment for your sins is central to Judaism (Maimonedes has it as one of the 13 principles of the faith).

I always wonder where this misconception comes from - is it just because hell is only temporary?

// there are also myriad conceptions of each - the "lake of fire" is among them for "hell", but I think most go for a Dante's Inferno-type deal, where your punishments are tailored to the crimes
 
2013-02-07 04:15:12 PM
Dr Dreidel:

// there are also myriad conceptions of each - the "lake of fire" is among them for "hell", but I think most go for a Dante's Inferno-type deal, where your punishments are tailored to the crimes

So, like if you had warrants for unpaid parking tickets you would sit by the lake of fire with just your toe in it? While murderers are swimming way out in the deep end?

/just trying to be funny
 
2013-02-07 04:22:16 PM

All2morrowsparTs: George Babbitt: pciszek:
1) Are Jewish commandments binding on Christians?
2) Does the Jewish God count as a "false god" as far as these prohibitions are concerned?
If you answered "yes" to number 2, then there can be no justification for answering "yes" to number 1.

1) No.
2) No.
3)Mark 12:29-30 ""The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

So why then the focus on the 10 commandments?


Because people get confused.

The original Ten Commandments as handed down to Moses apply to Judaism, not Christianity.  Same with the rest of the Old Testament.  "Behold, the old is washed away, the new has come."

Now, 9 out of the 10 commandments were repeated, by Jesus hisownself, and those are considered to be standing orders (so to speak).  So we still have a rule that says "do not murder", but if you wanted book-chapter-verse, it's not the Ten Commandments but rather one of his sermons.

And he was quite explicit that even though the older rules didn't apply to the state of our soul, Christians were still to be respectful and considerate.  That's why we still publish the OT alongside the NT in typical Bibles:  it provides context and examples (good and bad) even though we're not bound by its commandments.

The one Commandment that didn't get restated was the one about the Sabbath day, which is why we're allowed to go bowling with the Dude.
 
2013-02-07 04:22:40 PM

busy chillin': So, like if you had warrants for unpaid parking tickets you would sit by the lake of fire with just your toe in it? While murderers are swimming way out in the deep end?

/just trying to be funny


There is once conception of "the afterlife" as one big stadium. God('s presence/grace) is on the 50-yard line, heaven is the surrounding area/first tier, and hell is the cheap seats.

// the idea is that, as mentioned in the Kevin Smith documentary Dogma, merely being too far away from god is a punishment unto itself
// and after you've paid your dues in "hell", you get to go to heaven
// I had more than one rabbi tell me that you get credits/debits for the "ripple effect" of what you do - cause someone else to be/do good, and you get partial credit in the afterlife (and vice-versa)
 
2013-02-07 04:27:23 PM
As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)
 
2013-02-07 04:28:46 PM
My gay ex-minister friend was in a conservative Lutheran synod, joined up before he realized he was gay.  Apparently it's pretty hard to switch synods once you're in the system. So he could attend liberal Lutheran churches in his free time, but his pastoring gigs had to be in churches in the conservative synod.

Now he is Catholic, because he likes to attend church and if you're a gay man who likes religious flair, the Catholic Church is the place to be.

\that last pastoring gig at a small Midwest version of Rock Ridge* (Blazing Saddles) church killed the Lutheranism in him
\\*you know, morons
 
2013-02-07 04:29:51 PM

rcuhljr: rcuhljr: wsupfoo2: I grew up Lutheran.  We had a gay choir director who regularly brought his partner to church and this was back in the 80s. Very liberal church.  We even did a Jewish Sedar in bible study to celebrate passover to learn about the commonalities of different religions.  We learned about Catholocism and other Protestant religions in very respectful manner.  The thing is, I had never heard of the Missouri Synod until I was grown up.  I'm convinced that the Missouri Synod is that crazy relative your parents sit you down when your 20 and say: "you know how we said you didn't have any aunts or uncles..."

Are you me? I think the only reason I stayed in church for as long as I did before the agnostic->atheist migration was that the Lutheran church I grew up in was pretty damn liberal.


Same same.  I doubt seriously that any of the pastors cared much that I stopped going in high school.  All they cared about was that I become a decent and kind human being.

/oh how I failed them
 
2013-02-07 04:30:52 PM

Dr Dreidel: jigger: IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?

We don't believe in eternal damnation, but we do have a heaven and a hell. The concept of reward/punishment for your sins is central to Judaism (Maimonedes has it as one of the 13 principles of the faith).

I always wonder where this misconception comes from - is it just because hell is only temporary?


My offhand guess is that it's because most Christians don't learn the entire teachings of Judaism; we get sort of a watered-down version based on the Pentateuch (I'm certain I just mangled the spelling there).  There's very little emphasis in the Old Testament about heaven and hell.  Mostly we get a ton of history, some prophecy, and a brief collection of erotic poetry.
 
2013-02-07 04:33:13 PM

Raharu: I got tired of jumping through imaginary hoops to keep imaginary sky daddy happy a long time ago.


LOL me too

except i was never dumb enough to believe in the first place
 
2013-02-07 04:33:30 PM
"wrote a letter to church members saying he had requested an apology from Morris for his participation in "joint worship with other religions"

Just remember, your religion is MORE important than victims of tragedy. You do not want to give the impression that your compassion as human exceeded your zeal as a zealot.
 
2013-02-07 04:34:27 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.


These are Missouri Synod Lutherans. they're jackasses like that. You're thinking of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, which is generally a laid back bunch that don't get their knickers in a twist too often. Missouri Synod Lutherans, however, are like the al-Qaida of the Lutheran church.
 
2013-02-07 04:35:01 PM

Farking Canuck: Onkel Buck: But we are still cool with the way Sharia torments women right?

Nobody here was ever cool with that. Take your dishonesty elsewhere.


i agree with everything this guy says LOLZ

I welcome the Religion of Peace.

i mean they also hate christians, so they can't be all bad
 
2013-02-07 04:35:07 PM

Dr Dreidel: George Babbitt: Dr Dreidel:
// the sage responds: "'That which is distasteful to you, do not do to your neighbor.' The rest is extrapolation; go and learn [it]!"

Matt 22:39 "And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."

Which is originally in Exodus, itself probably plagiarized from a handful of earlier works.

// and 'round and 'round we go
// fun fact: The Talmud also contains the aphorism "there are larger goats to broil" (since updated, for some reason, to fish frying)


I prefer goat, it's like the poor version of lamb.
 
2013-02-07 04:35:14 PM
Sure, Lutherans may be all about coffee and socializing now, but you have to remember that their church is named after Martin Luther, who was a whackjob fanatic who liked to start religious wars. Just because the Catholic Church was wrong doesn't necessarily mean Luther was right.
 
2013-02-07 04:36:27 PM

moothemagiccow: George Babbitt: SkunkWerks: Apatheosis

If you meant Apotheosis, I did not mean that or Apatheosis. Apatheist is a made up word I came across a few years ago to refer to the reality of most 'atheists', that most are not true atheists, but rather apathetic non-believers who act with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity.

All words are made-up. Aren't those people just agnostics


I believe that agnostics aren't sure of what the truth is but would like to know, apatheists don't know and don't care.
 
2013-02-07 04:36:47 PM

HortusMatris: George Babbitt: To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell? Nothing is known till the last day, when all will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and give account. Some will have an advocate in Christ, some who never leaned of him will stand or fall on their own deeds, some who lived before Him get a pass for living as God told them and some are a 'law unto themselves'. So it tells us in the last book of the Bible. The final story on each of us is not written until the last chapter is written. It's a sliding scale with more confidence on some paths, and less confidence on others. Yet, not one person has been eternally condemned to this day. God wishes to make all things right, and so the possibility and likelihood of that happening is high before the end comes for this age. Just sayin.

Thank you, Pastor Babbitt, for informing us poor heathens on how God wishes for us to be judged, as it says in the Holy Bible.  Whatever would us withered souls, shrouded in the dark cloak of Satan's illusions, do without your enlightening words of spiritual wisdom?


George Babbitt: To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell? Nothing is known till the last day, when all will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and give account. Some will have an advocate in Christ, some who never leaned of him will stand or fall on their own deeds, some who lived before Him get a pass for living as God told them and some are a 'law unto themselves'. So it tells us in the last book of the Bible. The final story on each of us is not written until the last chapter is written. It's a sliding scale with more confidence on some paths, and less confidence on others. Yet, not one person has been eternally condemned to this day. God wishes to make all things right, and so the possibility and likelihood of that happening is high before the end comes for this age. Just sayin.


How do you know this to be true?  Millions of people on this planet are not Christians, how do you know that their beliefs are not true?

I don't believe in an afterlife or the existence of souls. As science and medicine progress, we are learning that we are our physical brains. We are networks of electrochemical signals.  When the brain dies, the network is gone and cannot be revived. There's no getting out of your skull.
 
2013-02-07 04:36:47 PM

Count_Crackula: As a member of the LCMS, I was ashamed to know that they were behind this crap before I clicked the link.

That said, I do know that there is a push within the LCMS to kick Harrison's type to the curb.  The younger generation that is coming into power inside the church's various governing bodies are tired of these kinds of shenanigans, because they recognize that this kind of crap has nothing to do with Christ's teachings and everything to do with the internal politics built around a Synodical dogma whose time has passed.  I hope that they are successful, because I'm tired of reading stories like this.

/Likes my church
//Had cigars and whiskey with the pastor last Friday


Hell, I am reasonably sure even the Pope (and by that I mean the current uber-reactionary Pope Benny, AKA the Cardinal formerly nicknamed "Rasto" by Vatican insiders) is okay these days with getting his ecumenical praying on with Christians, Jews, maybe even Muslims these days, though IIRC he does drawn the line at Hindus and Bhuddists because once you let the polytheists in, the next thing you know you are invoking the Almighty next to some chick who got her "priestly robes" at Hot Topic and thinks of "Drawing Down the Moon" as her holy book.
 
2013-02-07 04:38:37 PM
Lutheran? I hardly know her!

/gotnutin
 
2013-02-07 04:41:59 PM

Aigoo: George Babbitt: All2morrowsparTs:

So why then the focus on the 10 commandments?

Aigoo:

Must have missed Matt 5:


The answer is found in Acts 15 which was leveled against the Judaiszers.

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ...that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

Which is referring specifically to the people being told their salvation is invalid unless they learn all the Law of Moses, eat only what is permitted under the Law of Moses, and are circumcised.

I'm extraordinarily well-versed in this discussion, having had it quarterly with Hebrew roots movement advocates. Go re-read the passage, in context. Then we'll talk. It does not discard the statements of Christ at all and if you think it does... I can't help you.


Romans 2 17-29 "17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth- 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."b
25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have thec written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God."
 
2013-02-07 04:43:26 PM

Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God


Meanwhile, posts like yours tell us all we need to know about christians.

upload.wikimedia.org
/i can has ticket plz?
 
2013-02-07 04:45:32 PM

over_and_done: There's very little emphasis in the Old Testament about heaven and hell.


Which is weird, considering "heaven" and "hell" were concepts to counter the unjust world problem (if bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, how is there any kind of reward or punishment? Don't worry, they'll get theirs in the afterlife) in the first place - "reward" and "punishment" are very big topics in the OT.

Oh well. Run it all up the flagpole and see who salutes.
 
2013-02-07 04:46:10 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Reason will always win because religion is dumb.


Religion will always win because people are dumb.

/sometimes I dispair
 
2013-02-07 04:46:12 PM
Egalitarian:

"How do you know this to be true?  Millions of people on this planet are not Christians, how do you know that their beliefs are not true?
I don't believe in an afterlife or the existence of souls. As science and medicine progress, we are learning that we are our physical brains. We are networks of electrochemical signals.  When the brain dies, the network is gone and cannot be revived. There's no getting out of your skull."



1 Cor 1:20-25 "Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength."

I know it because it has been shown to be true. And we are not saved as souls, but as wholes, hence the resurrection of the body.
 
2013-02-07 04:50:16 PM

OminousAnonymous: Anybody want to come to my house for Kahlua coffee and "special" lemon bars?  I am starting a new religion where everyone has to be nice to each other.  That's the only rule.


some fat guy with yellow robe near the Indian/Chinese border already did that about 2500 yrs ago.. even sat on a lotus flower to make his point. Too bad it didn't catch on to the four corners of the world.
 
2013-02-07 04:53:44 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Have the crazies gotten to the Lutherans, too? They used to be just about coffee and lemon bars. Fark religion.


As others have said, you're thinking of the ELCA.  Which traditionally was about twice the size of LC-Missouri Synod (not a split situation... reasonably separate foundings), but since the 70s dieoff of 'Jello Salad' Protestantism and growth of wackjobbery, they've become closer in size.

For those following along at home, there are also a million or so "Northern" Baptists still around who are the Jello Salad to the far more numerous Southern Baptists.  They were one church, split over slavery pre-Civil War.
 
2013-02-07 04:54:21 PM
Dammit guys fine don't come to my awesome party!  More for me!!
 
2013-02-07 04:55:06 PM

George Babbitt: I believe that agnostics aren't sure of what the truth is but would like to know, apatheists don't know and don't care.


I can't speak for anyone else, but my apatheism was born out of being so goddamned tired of the same metaphysical arguments being made - can god microwave a burrito so hot he can't eat it, and all that - that, kind of like Jefferson, I set out to remove the metaphysics from the philosophy on my own terms.

What I'm left with is a moral-philosophical code that I can follow while cooking bacon on Saturday morning.

"Not caring" implies that I (or "we" in a general sense) simply chose to abandon the code, rather than come to the realization that IF I ever have to account for my life, I will make damn sure I can respond "I have lived it in the service of mankind" without lying. How many times I went to services will, IMO, be useless next to the number of times I cheered someone up. Making sure I have a mezuzah on every doorpost is far less important than making sure anyone who walks through my door as a guest feels as at home as in their own home.

// dunno if you meant it that way, but it sure sounded like you were coming close the the "immoral atheist" fallacy
 
2013-02-07 04:59:39 PM

eagles95: Our WELS church wasn't that bad when my wife and I started going there 12 years ago. But slowly went off the deep end. Few weeks ago they had a sermon about how befriending the ghey's will weaken your family. My wife who is very conservative told off the pastor (who also baptized our son) that some of our best friends are gay couples with kids and we were done with the church since they are basically teaching to hate people and Jesus taught to love and care for all people. He said it sounded like the devil has entered our heart since we now allow our son to be around gay kids.



Do grown-ups actually have conversations like that?  Must be a bible belt thing.
 
2013-02-07 05:00:03 PM

Dr Dreidel: over_and_done: There's very little emphasis in the Old Testament about heaven and hell.

Which is weird, considering "heaven" and "hell" were concepts to counter the unjust world problem (if bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, how is there any kind of reward or punishment? Don't worry, they'll get theirs in the afterlife) in the first place - "reward" and "punishment" are very big topics in the OT.

Oh well. Run it all up the flagpole and see who salutes.


Exactly, I think there's often emphasis placed on the wrong things, or at least taught in a way where we miss crucial things.
 
2013-02-07 05:03:07 PM
Dr Dreidel:

// dunno if you meant it that way, but it sure sounded like you were coming close the the "immoral atheist" fallacy

I don't think I was as I recognize that "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them."

I think that could apply not only to those that never knew, but also those that left the old way and never made it into the new.

/argh, I just split and ended that sentence with a homonym.
 
2013-02-07 05:03:12 PM

Dr Dreidel: jigger: IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?

We don't believe in eternal damnation, but we do have a heaven and a hell. The concept of reward/punishment for your sins is central to Judaism (Maimonedes has it as one of the 13 principles of the faith).

I always wonder where this misconception comes from - is it just because hell is only temporary?

// there are also myriad conceptions of each - the "lake of fire" is among them for "hell", but I think most go for a Dante's Inferno-type deal, where your punishments are tailored to the crimes


Ah, ok, so Jews follow the rules for the same reason as anyone else. The threat of being thrown in hell.
 
2013-02-07 05:04:29 PM

George Babbitt: Dr Dreidel:

// dunno if you meant it that way, but it sure sounded like you were coming close the the "immoral atheist" fallacy

I don't think I was as I recognize that "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them."

I think that could apply not only to those that never knew, but also those that left the old way and never made it into the new.

/argh, I just split and ended that sentence with a homonym.


EDIT: homophone
 
2013-02-07 05:04:30 PM
And Christians wonder why people are ignoring, laughing at, and leaving them more and more these days.

Didn't God say to love your neighbor as yourself? Didn't God say not to judge, lest you yourself be judged, because there is no other judge but God? Didn't God say that what you do to the least among you, you do to me? Didn't Jesus have some choice words about hypocrites? You also speak for him a lot about what he supposedly hates (which happens to be everything you hate, how about that), which confuses me because your book says God loves everything, and created everything out of love. If he hates those things so much, why doesn't he get rid of them? What, free will? What free will? If I don't spend every waking hour of my life kowtowing to God and declaring that he is real and is my master and all my works are for him, I'm going to spend eternity in unspeakable torture along with most of all of humanity that's ever existed. Christians can't even agree with each other about anything, that's why there's more sects of Christianity than there are species of bats, and every single one of them declares the rest are false and God will smite you for following any of them but the supposed "true" sect.
 
2013-02-07 05:05:48 PM

jigger: Dr Dreidel: jigger: IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?

We don't believe in eternal damnation, but we do have a heaven and a hell. The concept of reward/punishment for your sins is central to Judaism (Maimonedes has it as one of the 13 principles of the faith).

I always wonder where this misconception comes from - is it just because hell is only temporary?

// there are also myriad conceptions of each - the "lake of fire" is among them for "hell", but I think most go for a Dante's Inferno-type deal, where your punishments are tailored to the crimes

Ah, ok, so Jews follow the rules for the same reason as anyone else. The threat of being thrown in hell.


I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19
 
2013-02-07 05:05:53 PM
This may sound crazy, callous, and unfeeling, but just because you may treat your religion like a salad bar, selecting what you like and ignoring what you don't, doesn't mean that everyone else should.His religion doesn't allow him to pray with other faiths, whether he likes it or not. Whether it seems stupid to you and whatever parts of your religion you choose to honor depending on convenience.of course it's stupid. The whole religion is stupid. To me. But he has faith in it and is practicing it.
 
2013-02-07 05:07:46 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: And Christians wonder why people are ignoring, laughing at, and leaving them more and more these days.

Didn't God say to love your neighbor as yourself? Didn't God say not to judge, lest you yourself be judged, because there is no other judge but God? Didn't God say that what you do to the least among you, you do to me? Didn't Jesus have some choice words about hypocrites? You also speak for him a lot about what he supposedly hates (which happens to be everything you hate, how about that), which confuses me because your book says God loves everything, and created everything out of love. If he hates those things so much, why doesn't he get rid of them? What, free will? What free will? If I don't spend every waking hour of my life kowtowing to God and declaring that he is real and is my master and all my works are for him, I'm going to spend eternity in unspeakable torture along with most of all of humanity that's ever existed. Christians can't even agree with each other about anything, that's why there's more sects of Christianity than there are species of bats, and every single one of them declares the rest are false and God will smite you for following any of them but the supposed "true" sect.


I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.
 
2013-02-07 05:08:29 PM

Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods.


If Jesus hates it when members of the LC-Missouri Synod pray with members of other churches, then why didn't he start the LC-Missouri Synod first?
 
2013-02-07 05:09:47 PM

George Babbitt: And we are not saved as souls, but as wholes, hence the resurrection of the body.


Huh? Can you explain this a bit further? Do you mean that a person's body does not rot in a grave (or burn up, or get digested in the belly of a shark, etc.)?

George Babbitt: I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19


And if you don't you go to hell for eternity.
 
2013-02-07 05:12:22 PM

hinten: eagles95: Our WELS church wasn't that bad when my wife and I started going there 12 years ago. But slowly went off the deep end. Few weeks ago they had a sermon about how befriending the ghey's will weaken your family. My wife who is very conservative told off the pastor (who also baptized our son) that some of our best friends are gay couples with kids and we were done with the church since they are basically teaching to hate people and Jesus taught to love and care for all people. He said it sounded like the devil has entered our heart since we now allow our son to be around gay kids.


Do grown-ups actually have conversations like that?  Must be a bible belt thing.


every Saturday night and 3x on Sunday. luckily my kid even knows its b.s. he sees nothing wrong hanging out at their house with us. mainly because they have an indoor pool(in Wisconsin so its a big deal) plus every video game system that is out right now. their kids are well mannered, polite, great students in school. i hope the debil makes my kid that nice
 
2013-02-07 05:13:04 PM

George Babbitt: To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell?


Know is in Hell? No one is in Hell. They're just dead. No Hell. No Heaven. No Valhalla. Just dead. Your imaginary friend and his imaginary eternal torture chamber do not exist. But that's not the real point, is it?

No, the real point is the glee with which Christians judge others and wish them to go to Hell for things no one, especially a being that has teh power to create the entire universe, should care about.
 
2013-02-07 05:14:24 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it:  Missouri Synod

I'll have to look that up. I thought Lutherans were pretty open-minded, for the most part*

*their founder was pretty anti-Semitic, but I think everyone else was too back in the 1500's...


The ELCA synod generally is. I grew up in an ELCA Lutheran family, and it was pretty laid-back for the most part. I didn't even know there were different synods until I got married (my ex-wife was Missouri synod Lutheran). Hell, we had a woman pastor back in the early 90's. I've been to Missouri and Wisconsin synod churches, and I don't really care for either one. They just have a much more "culty" feel to me. Then again, I haven't been back to my regular church in over 10 years, and things in this country have changed. Maybe they've gotten more rabid as well, but I find it hard to believe.
 
2013-02-07 05:14:31 PM

Earguy: You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.


Our church handed out bumper stickers that read: Forgive Everything.
 
2013-02-07 05:15:40 PM

Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)


How can we doubt that?  After all, god gave us malaria (and mosquitoes to spread it), polio, and many other afflictions.  If that's not love, what is?
 
2013-02-07 05:17:16 PM
Christians: driving people away from Christ for 2012 years
 
2013-02-07 05:19:47 PM

George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.


Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.
 
2013-02-07 05:22:41 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: CheapEngineer: [skywriter2012.files.wordpress.com image 470x353]

\apologies are the new Black
\\except for the one in the White House

That's borderline informative/eye poison right there. Who is that and what the hell is growing on his face?


That's the lawyer Cheney shot, and apologized for offending him afterwards
 
2013-02-07 05:25:05 PM
You have dickless assholes like this Harrison guy and the douche who made him apologize and then you get this type:

David Benke, a Lutheran pastor in New York, was suspended for praying at an interfaith vigil in 2001, 12 days after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center. Benke, who had refused to apologize for the incident, was reinstated in 2003.

My aunt is Lutheran, she would probably have cockpunched those first two shiatheads.
 
2013-02-07 05:25:18 PM

Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)


Which is why He condemned us all to lives of pain, disease, predation, deformity, and death for the actions of one poor child who lacked the knowledge to understand that the serpent was tricking her. And why He threw a temper tantrum and drowned the world for the actions of people whom He had never bothered to tell wer making Him mad. Yeah, that's "love" alright.
 
2013-02-07 05:26:11 PM

George Babbitt: To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell? Nothing is known till the last day, when all will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and give account. Some will have an advocate in Christ, some who never leaned of him will stand or fall on their own deeds, some who lived before Him get a pass for living as God told them and some are a 'law unto themselves'. So it tells us in the last book of the Bible. The final story on each of us is not written until the last chapter is written. It's a sliding scale with more confidence on some paths, and less confidence on others. Yet, not one person has been eternally condemned to this day. God wishes to make all things right, and so the possibility and likelihood of that happening is high before the end comes for this age. Just sayin.


Why would God send anyone to hell anyway? Doesn't he have the power to make people good again and erase sin, because he's, you know, all-powerful and all-loving? Didn't he create everything in the first place because of his love? Sending people to eternal torture when he has the power to remove all evil and sin doesn't sound like the actions a loving, omnipotent being, it sound's like the actions of someone like Q, dicking around for his own amusement an reveling in the torment of others.
 
2013-02-07 05:27:21 PM
CSB Time: When I was in 7th grade I was staying at the house of a friend who stopped going to his Lutheran church's youth group.  They thought it would be a good idea to kidnap him that Sunday morning and bring him back to the youth group.  In fact, they thought it was such a good idea that in their enthusiasm they also grabbed me, put a pillow case over my head, put me in a van and drove me to the same youth group, even though I did not belong to their or any church.  I learned that day that my mother had no problem cursing out a 16-year-old kid over the phone or in person while standing in a church.
 
2013-02-07 05:28:05 PM

Ed Grubermann: Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)

Which is why He condemned us all to lives of pain, disease, predation, deformity, and death for the actions of one poor child who lacked the knowledge to understand that the serpent was tricking her. And why He threw a temper tantrum and drowned the world for the actions of people whom He had never bothered to tell wer making Him mad. Yeah, that's "love" alright.


God is not just an asshole.  He's The Asshole of the Universe.

Few humans would treat people with the cruelty god does.
 
2013-02-07 05:33:00 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Ed Grubermann: Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)

Which is why He condemned us all to lives of pain, disease, predation, deformity, and death for the actions of one poor child who lacked the knowledge to understand that the serpent was tricking her. And why He threw a temper tantrum and drowned the world for the actions of people whom He had never bothered to tell wer making Him mad. Yeah, that's "love" alright.

God is not just an asshole.  He's The Asshole of the Universe.

Few humans would treat people with the cruelty god does.


You got to stop assuming that Jehovah guy is The One God. Makes no sense.
 
2013-02-07 05:35:32 PM
Interpretive dance time...

George Babbitt:
I don't think I was as I recognize that "Indeed, when Gentiles,(NonJewish/practicing people) who do not have the law(who don't know about Jesus), do by nature things required by the law( but follow most of the tenets of our faith due to common sense, because hey, it is), they are a law for themselves(will think they came up with it), even though they do not have the law(even if they didn't learn it from us, and don't know we came up with it), since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts(since they are good people without us teaching them), their consciences also bearing witness(they will lie to themselves), and their thoughts now accusing(thinking/saying that we are lying to them), now even defending them(and say they came up with it on their own, and are good people without our help)."

I think that could apply not only to those that never knew, but also those that left the old way and never made it into the new.


Pastor Babbit, don't tell me you don't know what bearing witness actually meant. I find your passage insulting, as most of the tenets are common sense, and anyone who was not raised as a wild animal can come up with them, i.e. every religion in existence has them.
 
2013-02-07 05:36:05 PM

mbillips: Sure, Lutherans may be all about coffee and socializing now, but you have to remember that their church is named after Martin Luther, who was a whackjob fanatic who liked to start religious wars. Just because the Catholic Church was wrong doesn't necessarily mean Luther was right.


Three paragraphs from "Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants"

For a prince and lord must remember in this case that he is God's minister and the
servant of his wrath (Romans XIII), to whom the sword is committed for use upon such
fellows, and that he sins as greatly against God, if he does not punish and protect and does
not fulfil the duties of his office, as does one to whom the sword has not been committed
when he commits a murder. If he can punish and does not - even though the punishment
consist in the taking of life and the shedding of blood - then he is guilty of all the murder and
all the evil which these fellows commit, because, by willful neglect of the divine command,
he permits them to practice their wickedness, though he can prevent it, and is in duty bound
to do so. Here, then, there is no time for sleeping; <i>no place for patience or mercy. It is the
time of the sword, not the day of grace.</i>

The rulers, then, should go on unconcerned, and with a good conscience lay about
them as long as their hearts still beat. It is to their advantage that the peasants have a bad
conscience and an unjust cause and that any peasant who is killed is lost in body and soul and
is eternally the devil's. But the rulers have a good conscience and a just cause and can,
therefore, say to God with all assurance of heart, 'Behold, my God, thou hast appointed me
prince or lord, of this I can have no doubt; and though hast committed to me the sword over
the evildoers (Romans XIII).' It is thy Word, and cannot lie. I must fulfill my office or forfeit
thy grace. It is also plain that these peasants have deserved death many times over, in thine
eyes and the eyes of the world, and have been committed to me for punishment. If it be thy
will that I be slain by them, and that my rulership be taken from me and destroyed, so be it:
thy will be done. So shall I die and be destroyed fulfilling thy commandment and thy Word,
and shall be found obedient to thy commandment and my office. Therefore will I punish and
smite as long as my heart bears. Thou wilt judge and make things right.'

<i>Thus it may be that one who is killed fighting on the ruler's side may be a true martyr
in the eyes of God, if he fights with such a conscience as I have just described, for he is in
God's Word and is obedient to him.</i> On the other hand, one who perishes on the peasants' side
is an eternal brand of hell, for he bears the sword against God's Word and is disobedient to
him, and is a member of the devil. And even though it happens that the peasants gain the
upper hand (which God forbid!) for to God all things are possible, and we do not know
whether it may be his will, through the devil, to destroy all order and rule and cast the world
upon a desolate heap, as a prelude to the Last Day, which cannot be far off - nevertheless,
they may die without worry and go to the scaffold with a good conscience, who are found
exercising their office of the sword. They may leave to the devil the kingdom of the world,
and take in exchange the everlasting kingdom. <i>Strange times, these, when a prince can win
heaven with bloodshed, better than other men with prayer!</i>

(Italics are mine.  In short, Luther commissioned an Al-Qaeda of the nobles against the peasants, and declared paradise to whomever would slay peasants without mercy.)
 
2013-02-07 05:37:19 PM

ghare: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ed Grubermann: Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)

Which is why He condemned us all to lives of pain, disease, predation, deformity, and death for the actions of one poor child who lacked the knowledge to understand that the serpent was tricking her. And why He threw a temper tantrum and drowned the world for the actions of people whom He had never bothered to tell wer making Him mad. Yeah, that's "love" alright.

God is not just an asshole.  He's The Asshole of the Universe.

Few humans would treat people with the cruelty god does.

You got to stop assuming that Jehovah guy is The One God. Makes no sense.


Discussing god(s) makes no sense, same as discussing the Tooth Fairy.
 
2013-02-07 05:39:17 PM

George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.


Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden, without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad" when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer, his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs. And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.

Also, this is the same old song every other religion before Christianity began with and played out. The Old Testament is a Greatest Hits package of previous religions with a few name changes.
 
2013-02-07 05:39:31 PM

dv-ous: That was the guy who apologized to Dick Cheney after Cheney shot him in the face with a shotgun full of bird pellets.

The dots are from the pellets. The yellow and the swelling is bruising.


CheapEngineer: That's the lawyer Cheney shot, and apologized for offending him afterwards


Ohhhhh ok
 
2013-02-07 05:39:55 PM

jigger: George Babbitt: And we are not saved as souls, but as wholes, hence the resurrection of the body.

Huh? Can you explain this a bit further? Do you mean that a person's body does not rot in a grave (or burn up, or get digested in the belly of a shark, etc.)?

George Babbitt: I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19

And if you don't you go to hell for eternity.


It means even if you do rot, God will ressurect you, provided you had faith in him, and were buried properly for your area/era/faith. One difference between religions is how to properly do those things.
 
2013-02-07 05:42:55 PM

Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God


go cry moar emo farker

Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.

Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden, without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad" when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer, his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs. And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.

Also, this is the same old song every other religion before Christianity began with and played out. The Old Testament is a Greatest Hits package of previous religions with a few name changes.


LOLZ i agree with everything this person says
 
2013-02-07 05:45:11 PM

George Babbitt: jigger: Dr Dreidel: jigger: IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?

We don't believe in eternal damnation, but we do have a heaven and a hell. The concept of reward/punishment for your sins is central to Judaism (Maimonedes has it as one of the 13 principles of the faith).

I always wonder where this misconception comes from - is it just because hell is only temporary?

// there are also myriad conceptions of each - the "lake of fire" is among them for "hell", but I think most go for a Dante's Inferno-type deal, where your punishments are tailored to the crimes

Ah, ok, so Jews follow the rules for the same reason as anyone else. The threat of being thrown in hell.

I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19


God's "Love me, or I'll hurt you." might work for some, but not for me.
 
2013-02-07 05:52:59 PM

Ed Grubermann: Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)

Which is why He condemned us all to lives of pain, disease, predation, deformity, and death for the actions of one poor child who lacked the knowledge to understand that the serpent was tricking her. And why He threw a temper tantrum and drowned the world for the actions of people whom He had never bothered to tell wer making Him mad. Yeah, that's "love" alright.


God can only be described as perfect and harmonious by those who follow him.
Hence, why it would be logically consistent to describe him as the perfect state of entropy that blew up and caused the universe. So God is dead, and will eventually return to the state of being that he once was. Hence physics. and chemistry. and biology. also why evil exists:

Given Choas theory, if the actual/original being of God were to blow himself up, there would be larger concentrations of particles in some areas, versus others. Given a certain concentration of these particles of the original God, you could in theory create a God', who would realize the original God's existence made him possible, and thenceforth he issues a demand to all lesser beings that there can exist only him as the pinnacle, as then and only then can he obtain the power of belief over all lesser beings.

So God' could exist as a vain god, and Evil as a seperate entity could exist(Note: God(Prime) cannot control this, so he should not be blamed for its existence), we all still get free will, Lucifer/Satan can be both the representation of evil and preside over Hell, obeying God(prime)'s command to punish those who are evil, or even despise God(prime) because Satan knows the truth of the Original God, ........

Basically, read God's Debris by Scott Adams (Yes, the Dilbert dude) and open your eyes to the true evil that is Religion.
 
2013-02-07 05:53:58 PM
Eeesh!  I've had lots of experience with many Lutheran churches here in the SF Bay Area and if there was anything I took away it was that the church was an all-inclusive, sort of "hippie" magnet.  "Mostly Harmless" would apply.  There was absolutely lots of interfaith activity.  Maybe Bay Area Lutherans are a different breed.  Maybe it was a different time as it's all a few decades behind me.  Ah, well, if there are people there will be stupid.
 
2013-02-07 05:57:05 PM

jigger: George Babbitt: And we are not saved as souls, but as wholes, hence the resurrection of the body.

Huh? Can you explain this a bit further? Do you mean that a person's body does not rot in a grave (or burn up, or get digested in the belly of a shark, etc.)?

For sure it does, how the more wonderful it is that the resurrection transforms that which is corruptible into something that is incorruptible. 1 Cor 15



George Babbitt: I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19

And if you don't you go to hell for eternity.


See here:


George Babbitt

 
2013-02-07 05:58:51 PM

Anderson's Pooper: The only Wisconsin Synod thing I've ever been to was a fire and brimstone wedding.  Yeah, read that again, fire and brimstone wedding.


Damn.  And I thought the 'Evangelical Free Church' "Honor and obey. Obey. OBEY! Do you get that? OBEY!" (looking only at the bride through the whole mess) I saw was pretty bad.

/ No drinks afterwards, either.
 
2013-02-07 06:01:07 PM
That is why Pascal had his wager all wrong. Most of the popular gods REALLY hate it when you worship other gods or even the same god but get his name wrong or chose the wrong denomination.

/ funny how stupid even smart people can be.
 
2013-02-07 06:02:41 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: ghare: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ed Grubermann: Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)

Which is why He condemned us all to lives of pain, disease, predation, deformity, and death for the actions of one poor child who lacked the knowledge to understand that the serpent was tricking her. And why He threw a temper tantrum and drowned the world for the actions of people whom He had never bothered to tell wer making Him mad. Yeah, that's "love" alright.

God is not just an asshole.  He's The Asshole of the Universe.

Few humans would treat people with the cruelty god does.

You got to stop assuming that Jehovah guy is The One God. Makes no sense.

Discussing god(s) makes no sense, same as discussing the Tooth Fairy.


or a character in a book... though it makes perfect sense to discuss a character in a book. Therefore, I award you no points and may Atticus Finch have mercy on your soul
 
2013-02-07 06:05:34 PM

Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.


"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which took me into all the dark corners of the world. I do not feel superior to those dark corners, for I would still be there if not for someone else.

"He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." and so "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Are there many who leave those dark corners without their faith and belief? It would appear so on the surface, yet I see something else at work even in the lives of those that know nothing beyond the end of their nose.
 
2013-02-07 06:06:27 PM
Ugh. Only massively swollen egos quote themselves.
 
2013-02-07 06:07:05 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Why would God send anyone to hell anyway? Doesn't he have the power to make people good again and erase sin, because he's, you know, all-powerful and all-loving? Didn't he create everything in the first place because of his love? Sending people to eternal torture when he has the power to remove all evil and sin doesn't sound like the actions a loving, omnipotent being, it sound's like the actions of someone like Q, dicking around for his own amusement an reveling in the torment of others.


None of this has a damned thing to do with God (if any such thing exists.) This is about priests. The shepherd doesn't eat if the flock doesn't feed him. (Not arguing with you, oh two-headed one. Just adding to the point.)
 
2013-02-07 06:07:49 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell? Nothing is known till the last day, when all will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and give account. Some will have an advocate in Christ, some who never leaned of him will stand or fall on their own deeds, some who lived before Him get a pass for living as God told them and some are a 'law unto themselves'. So it tells us in the last book of the Bible. The final story on each of us is not written until the last chapter is written. It's a sliding scale with more confidence on some paths, and less confidence on others. Yet, not one person has been eternally condemned to this day. God wishes to make all things right, and so the possibility and likelihood of that happening is high before the end comes for this age. Just sayin.

Why would God send anyone to hell anyway? Doesn't he have the power to make people good again and erase sin, because he's, you know, all-powerful and all-loving? Didn't he create everything in the first place because of his love? Sending people to eternal torture when he has the power to remove all evil and sin doesn't sound like the actions a loving, omnipotent being, it sound's like the actions of someone like Q, dicking around for his own amusement an reveling in the torment of others.


I reiterate: name one person you know is in Hell?
 
2013-02-07 06:09:49 PM

tlars699: Interpretive dance time...

George Babbitt:
I don't think I was as I recognize that "Indeed, when Gentiles,(NonJewish/practicing people) who do not have the law(who don't know about Jesus), do by nature things required by the law( but follow most of the tenets of our faith due to common sense, because hey, it is), they are a law for themselves(will think they came up with it), even though they do not have the law(even if they didn't learn it from us, and don't know we came up with it), since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts(since they are good people without us teaching them), their consciences also bearing witness(they will lie to themselves), and their thoughts now accusing(thinking/saying that we are lying to them), now even defending them(and say they came up with it on their own, and are good people without our help)."

I think that could apply not only to those that never knew, but also those that left the old way and never made it into the new.

Pastor Babbit, don't tell me you don't know what bearing witness actually meant. I find your passage insulting, as most of the tenets are common sense, and anyone who was not raised as a wild animal can come up with them, i.e. every religion in existence has them.


Who hurt you?
 
2013-02-07 06:10:42 PM

George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which took me into all the dark corners of the world. I do not feel superior to those dark corners, for I would still be there if not for someone else.

"He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." and so "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Are there many who leave those dark corners without their faith and belief? It would appear so on the surface, yet I see something else at work even in the lives of those that know nothing beyond the end of their nose.


I ask for proof and you give me Bible quotes. You fail, sir.
 
2013-02-07 06:12:20 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.

Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden, without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad" when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer, his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs. And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.

Also, this is the same old song every other religion before Christianity began with and played out. The Old Testament is a Greatest Hits package of previous religions with a few name changes.


oddly enough, it's just called a serpent in the Bible.  the so-called literalists throw Satan on there

George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which took me into all the dark corners of the world. I do not feel superior to those dark corners, for I would still be there if not for someone else.

"He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." and so "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Are there many who leave those dark corners without their faith and belief? It would appear so on the surface, yet I see something else at work even in the lives of those that know nothing beyond the end of their nose.


this doesn't tell me anything or prove anything.

There are a lot of schizophrenics who hear voices. Does that prove there are magical voices that are emanating from outside the schizophrenics' brains?
 
2013-02-07 06:16:26 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.

Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden(which is where He walked daily with them), without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad"(not bad, just 'don't eat it') when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer(the personification of falsehood is not a threat when truth is remembered), his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs.(Eve was Adam's responsibility, hence him not being able to blame her for what he did) And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.

Also, this is the same old song every other religion before Christianity began with and played out. The Old Testament is a Greatest Hits package of previous religions with a few name changes.

(Thanks Joseph Campbell)
 
2013-02-07 06:17:03 PM

Ed Grubermann: I ask for proof and you give me Bible quotes. You fail, sir.


God is real because the bible says so. The bible is real because it is the word of god.

Therefore bible quotes are proof of whatever you want them to prove!

/it is so simple it is a perfect circle!!
 
2013-02-07 06:17:59 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: God's "Love me, or I'll hurt you." might work for some, but not for me.


I wouldn't even train a dog that way.

In fact, in most jurisdictions there are laws against it.

Ponder that shiat in your hearts, folks.
 
2013-02-07 06:18:35 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.

Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden, without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad" when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer, his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs. And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.


Not just something He doesn't want us to touch, but something we can't even understand why not to touch until after we touch it. He created us without the ability to defend ourselves from lies and deceit. (And these clowns worship the very state that led us to The Fall. Lunatics,) And not only that, but something He did not need. God already knows Good and Evil. The animals have no need for such knowledge as God made them unable to be evil. Angels don't need it, either. They know what God wants them to know.

And speaking of... How can Lucifer be a enemy and a rival? He's only an angel. Angels do not have free will. Only humans were given that burden. Lucifer, like all angels, can only do what God wants him to do.
 
2013-02-07 06:19:06 PM

tlars699: jigger: George Babbitt: And we are not saved as souls, but as wholes, hence the resurrection of the body.

Huh? Can you explain this a bit further? Do you mean that a person's body does not rot in a grave (or burn up, or get digested in the belly of a shark, etc.)?

George Babbitt: I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19

And if you don't you go to hell for eternity.

It means even if you do rot, God will ressurect you, provided you had faith in him, and were buried properly for your area/era/faith. One difference between religions is how to properly do those things.


You're falling into the same legalistic trap the Jews set for themselves which necessitated Jesus expounding on the Law to remind them that it is in spirit and truth that we worship and love God, not in the materialistic, worldly, physical and ritualistic methods that were mere shadows of the way.
 
2013-02-07 06:19:30 PM

SN1987a goes boom: My aunt is Lutheran, she would probably have cockpunched those first two shiatheads.


Hopefully they would have turned the other cock.


tlars699: It means even if you do rot, God will ressurect you


Resurrect the body? When? Either not within 500 years or Richard III is not in heaven.

George Babbitt: For sure it does, how the more wonderful it is that the resurrection transforms that which is corruptible into something that is incorruptible. 1 Cor 15


Ah! All clear now. Thanks.

George Babbitt: See here:

To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you  know  is in Hell?

According to the Bible, hell exists. Does it exist for no other reason than an idle threat? If it exists for the purpose of throwing humans into it, then either some are there now or some will be in the future. Once they are in hell, they are in hell for eternity. So you've got two choices. In mentioning the existence of hell in the Bible, God makes idle threats, or God sends people to hell.

But anyway, the Bible talks about sending someone to hell.

Luke 16:19-31 -
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores  21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.  23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.  24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.  26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,  28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30"'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"
 
2013-02-07 06:21:19 PM

George Babbitt: it is in spirit and truth that we worship and love God, not in the materialistic, worldly, physical...


But God wants your worldly, physical, materialistic body in heaven?
 
2013-02-07 06:21:46 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: George Babbitt: jigger: Dr Dreidel: jigger: IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?

We don't believe in eternal damnation, but we do have a heaven and a hell. The concept of reward/punishment for your sins is central to Judaism (Maimonedes has it as one of the 13 principles of the faith).

I always wonder where this misconception comes from - is it just because hell is only temporary?

// there are also myriad conceptions of each - the "lake of fire" is among them for "hell", but I think most go for a Dante's Inferno-type deal, where your punishments are tailored to the crimes

Ah, ok, so Jews follow the rules for the same reason as anyone else. The threat of being thrown in hell.

I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19

God's "Love me, or I'll hurt you." might work for some, but not for me.


That's not what I or the word said. Jesus said forgive someone 7 times 70 times, because by the time you have actually forgiven someone 490 times, for sure you have lost count and so you should just forgive them again, and if you do keep an accurate count, you're missing the point.
 
2013-02-07 06:23:32 PM

Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which took me into all the dark corners of the world. I do not feel superior to those dark corners, for I would still be there if not for someone else.

"He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." and so "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Are there many who leave those dark corners without their faith and belief? It would appear so on the surface, yet I see something else at work even in the lives of those that know nothing beyond the end of their nose.

I ask for proof and you give me Bible quotes. You fail, sir.


That wasn't all I gave you, I also gave you my testimony. We accept it in courts to send somebody to the electric chair, why not also to send someone on a different path from like the one I was on?
 
2013-02-07 06:26:42 PM

Egalitarian: Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.

Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden, without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad" when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer, his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs. And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.

Also, this is the same old song every other religion before Christianity began with and played out. The Old Testament is a Greatest Hits package of previous religions with a few name changes.

oddly enough, it's just called a serpent in the Bible.  the so-called literalists throw Satan on thereGeorge Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which to ...


Prove to me they aren't hearing those voices and the medicines(toxins with beneficial side effects)they take aren't suppressing them. Enjoy that.
 
2013-02-07 06:33:40 PM
meh, I don't get it, but its their rules.
 
2013-02-07 06:36:25 PM

George Babbitt: We accept it in courts to send somebody to the electric chair


I don't think you should be citing Our National Shame with approval.

By that I don't mean the death penalty itself, but that a criminal conviction can, sometimes, and rarely, result from no more than witness testimony.  It's far from the norm, thanks be to whatever.  A court interested in the administration of Justice (may not apply in Texas) knows that eyewitness testimony is the least reliable sort of evidence, and should be supported, nay, surpassed by circumstantial evidence and material evidence.

In other words, you're not helping your case with this lame argument.
 
2013-02-07 06:37:05 PM

jigger: .

According to the Bible, hell exists. Does it exist for no other reason than an idle threat? If it exists for the purpose of throwing humans into it, then either some are there now or some will be in the future. Once they are in hell, they are in hell for eternity. So you've got two choices. In mentioning the existence of hell in the Bible, God makes idle threats, or God sends people to hell.
But anyway, the Bible talks about sending someone to hell.
Luke 16:19-31


3)God may send people to Hell. Hell in my mind has always been formed in the thought of being without His company for eternity. What's a little fire on top of that?


jigger: George Babbitt: it is in spirit and truth that we worship and love God, not in the materialistic, worldly, physical...

But God wants your worldly, physical, materialistic body in heaven?


God's home is among us. At the end when Heaven and Earth are remade, they will be fused into one, and there will be no sun, for God shall be the light of the world. I don't believe anyone goes to Heaven or Hell or anywhere after they die. They just sleep until the last day. There is little lecture that was given in 1954(fascinating year) at the Chapel at Harvard by Oscar Cullmannhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Cullman  titled "The Immortality of the Soul or the Resurrection of the Body: The Witness of the New Testament" and it is available in its entirety online http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=1115 and reflects a more natural presentation of what the bible tells us than almost anything I have ever read. The only one to come close, with considerably more words, was N.T. Wright in his book "Surprised by Hope", though the Cullman work can be read in an hour and is more 'perfect' in my opinion.
 
2013-02-07 06:38:17 PM

Deucednuisance: George Babbitt: We accept it in courts to send somebody to the electric chair

I don't think you should be citing Our National Shame with approval.

By that I don't mean the death penalty itself, but that a criminal conviction can, sometimes, and rarely, result from no more than witness testimony.  It's far from the norm, thanks be to whatever.  A court interested in the administration of Justice (may not apply in Texas) knows that eyewitness testimony is the least reliable sort of evidence, and should be supported, nay, surpassed by circumstantial evidence and material evidence.

In other words, you're not helping your case with this lame argument.


You read approval into my words,FYI.
 
8zo [TotalFark]
2013-02-07 06:49:12 PM
Let's see... LCMS has a policy of not participating in inter-faith services in place for well over 100 years.  LCMS pastor participates in such a service.  LCMS president notes this and asks for a written apology from the pastor to the synod for breaking this policy, with assurance it will not happen again.  Pastor complies and writes an apology.  For some reason, nbc news thinks this is worthy of a full national news article.  Must be a slow news day!
 
2013-02-07 06:58:40 PM

George Babbitt: God may send people to Hell. Hell in my mind has always been formed in the thought of being without His company for eternity. What's a little fire on top of that?


So there's only that one formerly rich guy in hell so far?

George Babbitt: God's home is among us. At the end when Heaven and Earth are remade, they will be fused into one, and there will be no sun, for God shall be the light of the world. I don't believe anyone goes to Heaven or Hell or anywhere after they die. They just sleep until the last day.


Except for that one formerly rich guy? Or do you not believe that the story literally happened?

And how did that happen? How did the formerly rich guy feel the hot flames of Hades? Was it his physical body feeling the heat or something else? If it were his body, surely that can't last forever. The body would burn up and turn to ash in very short order. And what's burning to create the flames? What's the fuel? Is it burning in oxygen?
 
2013-02-07 07:04:41 PM

George Babbitt: I reiterate: name one person you know is in Hell?


First you need to show me there IS a Hell. And a heaven. And a God that created them.

George Babbitt: Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.

Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden(which is where He walked daily with them), without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad"(not bad, just 'don't eat it') when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer(the personification of falsehood is not a threat when truth is remembered), his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs.(Eve was Adam's responsibility, hence him not being able to blame her for what he did) And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.

Also, this is the same old song every other religion before Christianity began with and played out. The Old Testament is a Greatest Hits package of previous religions with a few name changes.(Thanks Joseph Campbell)


Was God constantly telling them not to touch it, since he didn't give them the ability to tell what was good and what was bad?
"Don't do that." "Why not?" "I'm not telling you why, don't do it."
So Lucifer is stronger than God, being able t hide himself so well from the omnipotent one?
Are we now saying that Eve was little more than a pet or a slave for Adam?
Did Joseph Campbell go back in time and write the Bible?
 
2013-02-07 07:07:04 PM

jigger: George Babbitt: God may send people to Hell. Hell in my mind has always been formed in the thought of being without His company for eternity. What's a little fire on top of that?

So there's only that one formerly rich guy in hell so far?

George Babbitt: God's home is among us. At the end when Heaven and Earth are remade, they will be fused into one, and there will be no sun, for God shall be the light of the world. I don't believe anyone goes to Heaven or Hell or anywhere after they die. They just sleep until the last day.

Except for that one formerly rich guy? Or do you not believe that the story literally happened?

And how did that happen? How did the formerly rich guy feel the hot flames of Hades? Was it his physical body feeling the heat or something else? If it were his body, surely that can't last forever. The body would burn up and turn to ash in very short order. And what's burning to create the flames? What's the fuel? Is it burning in oxygen?


I do believe that it was literally a parable.

I do not take the fruitless paths of the History Channel trying to explain the supernatural through natural means, if I did, then those things would cease to be supernatural. Of course, that may be the whole point of the exercise.
 
2013-02-07 07:16:42 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I reiterate: name one person you know is in Hell?

First you need to show me there IS a Hell. And a heaven. And a God that created them.

George Babbitt: Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: I realize it's easy to learn about something based on who is shouting the loudest, but there is more, and less, to what you say then you may think.

Whatever that means. I've looked through the Bible, listened to all the parables, and been in several Cristian sects. What I learned is that it's all a load of malarkey. Reading the first few parts of genesis shows many contradictions and WTF moments, like how God decided to put the one thing he didn't want Adam and Eve touching right smack in the middle of the garden(which is where He walked daily with them), without anything preventing them form getting to it, and telling them "No, it's bad"(not bad, just 'don't eat it') when they have no idea what "bad" even is. Then God shows he's not very omnipotent when he doesn't notice Lucifer(the personification of falsehood is not a threat when truth is remembered), his sworn enemy and rival, waltz into the garden and tell Eve it's okay to munch the figs.(Eve was Adam's responsibility, hence him not being able to blame her for what he did) And when God comes back and finds out? He throws a tantrum so big that he curses all of creation for all of eternity in order to punish all of humanity.

Also, this is the same old song every other religion before Christianity began with and played out. The Old Testament is a Greatest Hits package of previous religions with a few name changes.(Thanks Joseph Campbell)

Was God constantly telling them not to touch it, since he didn't give them the ability to tell what was good and what was bad?
"Don't do that." "Why not?" "I'm not telling you why, don't do it."
So Lucifer is stronger than God, being able t hide himself so well from the omnipotent one?
Are we now saying that Eve was little more than a pet or a slave for Adam?
Did Joseph Campbell ...



Why would he need to tell them again? They were not children.
They would have no need to ask why or why not, those are questions of doubt. What doubt is there when your creator is at your side.
He could not be and was not hidden, he did not need to be, he had not yet fallen.
This is a poem that speaks to the nature of the intended relationship between man and woman:

Woman was made from the rib of man,
She was not created from his head...to top him,
nor from his feet...to be stepped upon.
She was made from his side,
to be equal to him;
from beneath his arm...
near his heart...
to be loved by him.
 
2013-02-07 07:20:17 PM

Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God


I paid for my ticket with airmiles.
 
2013-02-07 07:27:11 PM

George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which took me into all the dark corners of the world. I do not feel superior to those dark corners, for I would still be there if not for someone else.

"He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." and so "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Are there many who leave those dark corners without their faith and belief? It would appear so on the surface, yet I see something else at work even in the lives of those that know nothing beyond the end of their nose.


gibberish, as usual.
 
2013-02-07 07:28:04 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which took me into all the dark corners of the world. I do not feel superior to those dark corners, for I would still be there if not for someone else.

"He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." and so "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Are there many who leave those dark corners without their faith and belief? It would appear so on the surface, yet I see something else at work even in the lives of those that know nothing beyond the end of their nose.

gibberish, as usual.


Until next time then.
 
2013-02-07 07:39:09 PM
You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.

Ahh, so Gods the one that said "Go forth and be shiat bags" Always wondered.
 
2013-02-07 07:39:14 PM

George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: I know it because it has been shown to be true.

Shown? Prove it. Show me your PROOF. I don't want to hear what you believe. I want to hear what you can prove. Every follower of every religion that has ever lurched across our planet has believed in their religion with the same fervor and conviction that you do. Faith proves nothing.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"

My life, if you knew me, and the lives of those that I know are the proof that I have, which are formed based on our belief and our faith, despite the path that I took which took me into all the dark corners of the world. I do not feel superior to those dark corners, for I would still be there if not for someone else.

"He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." and so "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Are there many who leave those dark corners without their faith and belief? It would appear so on the surface, yet I see something else at work even in the lives of those that know nothing beyond the end of their nose.

I ask for proof and you give me Bible quotes. You fail, sir.

That wasn't all I gave you, I also gave you my testimony. We accept it in courts to send somebody to the electric chair, why not also to send someone on a different path from like the one I was on?


I said proof. Testimony without evidence is not proof. Again, you fail, sir.
 
2013-02-07 07:39:43 PM
No, no, no.  No offense, but you all have it wrong, and I beg you to stop this frivolous arguing.

Children of Fark:  hear me!  I tell you sincerely, my words are endowed with the divine inspiration of He who is All-Starchy.  Surrender yourselves to the toothsome truth of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and let Him embrace your soul with His tender Noodly Appendage!  When you gaze into those magnificent Meat Balls, tears of joy will stream down your face and you will know, know, deep down that you are truly loved and never alone.  As you don your Holy Pirate Hat and hold your Cutlass high, you will know that you are not just a lump of organic matter like any other living thing on this planet, but that your life has the divine purpose of serving He who boiled for your sins!

In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Colander... can I get a Ramen?
 
2013-02-07 07:42:22 PM

George Babbitt: 3)God may send people to Hell. Hell in my mind has always been formed in the thought of being without His company for eternity. What's a little fire on top of that?


What's the difference between the life I've always led and me being set on fire?
 
2013-02-07 07:57:17 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-07 07:58:39 PM

Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: 3)God may send people to Hell. Hell in my mind has always been formed in the thought of being without His company for eternity. What's a little fire on top of that?

What's the difference between the life I've always led and me being set on fire?


I don't know the life you've lived, and it doesn't matter, for even if I did know I still couldn't say how things would turn out for you even if you spit in Jesus' eye and told Him to go to Hell, I still wouldn't know. "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven."(Mark 3:28-29) and who would be silly enough to deny that which he has never known and cannot disprove? Also how could he deny something if he doesn't even believe it exists? The point is that God has set things up so that it is nearly impossible to go to Hell. Is it a possibility on the order of reaching zero, but always halving itself a little closer but infinitely far away? Yes. But that is not what God wants. He wants to reconciled with all people, no matter what they've done. Name the person in history that you would deem worthy of eternal torment and I'll show you someone who can be a mirror for God's infinite capacity for love.
 
2013-02-07 08:07:25 PM

George Babbitt: Why would he need to tell them again? They were not children.
They would have no need to ask why or why not, those are questions of doubt. What doubt is there when your creator is at your side.
He could not be and was not hidden, he did not need to be, he had not yet fallen.
This is a poem that speaks to the nature of the intended relationship between man and woman:

Woman was made from the rib of man,
She was not created from his head...to top him,
nor from his feet...to be stepped upon.
She was made from his side,
to be equal to him;
from beneath his arm...
near his heart...
to be loved by him.


He created them with the minds of children and intended them to remain children. When they grew up, God cast them out in fury.
Apparently they needed him by their side 24/7. God steps out for one minute and Lucifer corrupts them instantly.
God couldn't tell one of his creations was conspiring against him? Some all seeing, all-knowing deity.
So God creates everything else from nothingness and from dust, including all the plants, animals, and Adam. But he creates Eve from a part of Adam, which indicates that women are merely extensions of men and not individuals themselves and are thus subservient to and owned by men. And this is after God created Adam by himself, after he created males and females of everything else, and then asks Adam why he's acting all sad and lonely. Also, if God made Eve form Adam's rib, why do men and women have the same (even) number of ribs?
 
2013-02-07 08:52:55 PM
Religion has meant the death of god.
 
2013-02-07 09:08:59 PM

hinten: Lutherans?

In any other country they are the most liberal libs that ever religioned.

I wonder what Luther would say about this.


The author of On the Jews and their Lies and Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants might be just fine with the Missouri Synod, and wonder just what the hell the other Lutherans are thinking.
 
2013-02-07 09:20:00 PM

digitalrain: Earguy: You know that bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?

Too many people have taken it too seriously.

Our church handed out bumper stickers that read: Forgive Everything.


Where is your church, and can I still get one of those? Because it sounds like someone in your church actually read the bible.
 
2013-02-07 09:28:48 PM

Farking Canuck: Ed Grubermann: I ask for proof and you give me Bible quotes. You fail, sir.

God is real because the bible says so. The bible is real because it is the word of god.

Therefore bible quotes are proof of whatever you want them to prove!

/it is so simple it is a perfect circle!!


I had a college professor whose answer to that was "no--think for yourself. Don't regurgitate someone else's 2000-year old words. Rote memorization does not prove to me that you can use the brain that God gave you in order to think and reason."

It was a professor in bible college, geared towards turning out pastors and ministers who said that. I loved that man.
 
2013-02-07 09:33:57 PM

George Babbitt: Inflatable Rhetoric: George Babbitt: jigger: Dr Dreidel: jigger: IIRC, Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, so what's the point of believing or following the rules?

We don't believe in eternal damnation, but we do have a heaven and a hell. The concept of reward/punishment for your sins is central to Judaism (Maimonedes has it as one of the 13 principles of the faith).

I always wonder where this misconception comes from - is it just because hell is only temporary?

// there are also myriad conceptions of each - the "lake of fire" is among them for "hell", but I think most go for a Dante's Inferno-type deal, where your punishments are tailored to the crimes

Ah, ok, so Jews follow the rules for the same reason as anyone else. The threat of being thrown in hell.

I would object, for it is so that "We love because he first loved us." 1 John 4:19

God's "Love me, or I'll hurt you." might work for some, but not for me.

That's not what I or the word said. Jesus said forgive someone 7 times 70 times, because by the time you have actually forgiven someone 490 times, for sure you have lost count and so you should just forgive them again, and if you do keep an accurate count, you're missing the point.


Actually, the Koine Greek says seventy times seven times a day.

If we're to follow the example of Christ, who can only do as He has seen the Father do, one could reasonably infer that God must then abide by the same requirement He is holding us to in this regard.
 
2013-02-07 09:37:48 PM
Keizer_Ghidorah:

When you get a chance, look up 'complex question fallacy' and then try this again. Peace.
 
2013-02-07 09:40:16 PM
Lutheran minister formally apologizes for taking part in prayer vigil for the victims of the Sandy Hook Massacre-because there were also clerics of other faiths also praying at the service, and you know, Jesus just HATES that

Jesus said that He was the one and only mother flucking way to God.  "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me, beotches!"

Cometh!  You bastard.  Cometh!  He didn't say let's all hold hands and respect these other religions.  He said He was THE way.  If you think you can just mix and meld religions together to get some foo-foo spiritual feeling going and that's going to do squat about the truth then you must/should be stoned.
 
2013-02-07 09:54:21 PM

trappedspirit: Cometh! You bastard. Cometh! He didn't say let's all hold hands and respect these other religions. He said He was THE way. If you think you can just mix and meld religions together to get some foo-foo spiritual feeling going and that's going to do squat about the truth then you must/should be stoned.


So you interpret that as not needing to respect other religions?

Jesus said "I am the way" and to you that means fark all others.
 
2013-02-07 10:08:31 PM
Churches: an obstructive and useless boil on the butt of society for 2,000+ years now.  Kindly retreat to your basements and get out of public life.  Religion sucks dead donkey dong.  Here's example #4,907,036.

Your Christ was good.  Your Christians lick dirty asshole.
 
2013-02-07 10:16:28 PM
The Missouri Synod is going to be soooooo pissed when they find out God let other people into heaven too, I half expect them to leave.

/Potlucks in Purgatory baby.
 
2013-02-07 10:18:45 PM

Frederick: trappedspirit: Cometh! You bastard. Cometh! He didn't say let's all hold hands and respect these other religions. He said He was THE way. If you think you can just mix and meld religions together to get some foo-foo spiritual feeling going and that's going to do squat about the truth then you must/should be stoned.

So you interpret that as not needing to respect other religions?

Jesus said "I am the way" and to you that means fark all others.


If you are trying to get to Las Vegas, and a street had a sign that said, "This way to Las Vegas", how long would you ponder on that?  Jesus said,  "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  I don't think that's ambiguous.  Doesn't need some philosophy major with a flow chart to understand that message.  It doesn't say, fark all others, it says, all others are farked.
 
2013-02-07 10:25:11 PM

Lumpmoose: tallguywithglasseson: CSB, my (imaginary Canadian) girlfriend was brought up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.
She switched to Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), which despite the common connotation of "evangelical", is quite liberal.

Now when she visits home & goes to her parents' church (also her former church), she isn't allowed to take communion.

Apparently the Missouri and Wisconsin synods are pretty far right. I'd had no idea about any of this Lutheran stuff before.

Many ELCA folks are't too fond of the "evangelical" pejorative thrown around these days as a synonym for right-wing fundies.  Of course, to an ELCA Lutheran, A Prairie Home Companion is evangelizing.


Well to get technical (note - I am an ELCA Lutheran and used to work at a Chruch) Most of what we now call the "Evangelical" movement is really more like "Christian Fundamentalism".  The Evangelicals (at the time that movement started) were actually teaching a pretty liberal message, with a lot more nuance and actually thinking about faith and belief.  ELCA is pretty cool.  Deciding to ordain open homosexuals was the right thing to do, but it has cost them dearly.  What's scary is that there are now Anti-ELCA hate blogs out there like http://www.exposingtheelca.com/index.html  Sadly, I know the guy behind that, no shock, he's a Freeper too, and a Seminary wash-out. So yeah, there's crazies out there with "Lutheran" in their church name too.
 
2013-02-07 10:28:39 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: Voiceofreason01: Yep, called it:  Missouri Synod

I'll have to look that up. I thought Lutherans were pretty open-minded, for the most part*

*their founder was pretty anti-Semitic, but I think everyone else was too back in the 1500's...


He retracted a lot of that after he passed a nasty kidney stone on an especially bumpy wagon ride.

/Not kidding, it's pretty much what happened
//Lutherans are totally OK with Luther being human
 
2013-02-07 10:34:24 PM

Walker: This is why Lutherans can't have nice things!
This will teach them to worship Lex Luther.


The fools deserve whatever happens to them if they kneel before Lex Luther instead of Zod.
 
2013-02-07 10:38:40 PM

Aigoo: George Babbitt:

That's not what I or the word said. Jesus said forgive someone 7 times 70 times, because by the time you have actually forgiven someone 490 times, for sure you have lost count and so you should just forgive them again, and if you do keep an accurate count, you're missing the point.

Actually, the Koine Greek says seventy times seven times a day.

If we're to follow the example of Christ, who can only do as He has seen the Father do, one could reasonably infer that God must then abide by the same requirement He is holding us to in this regard.


I thought that was a given, but yes I don't think that He asks more of us than He is willing to do Himself, hence His telling us to "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." while remembering "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me."
 
2013-02-07 10:39:32 PM

Count_Crackula: As a member of the LCMS, I was ashamed to know that they were behind this crap before I clicked the link.

That said, I do know that there is a push within the LCMS to kick Harrison's type to the curb.  The younger generation that is coming into power inside the church's various governing bodies are tired of these kinds of shenanigans, because they recognize that this kind of crap has nothing to do with Christ's teachings and everything to do with the internal politics built around a Synodical dogma whose time has passed.  I hope that they are successful, because I'm tired of reading stories like this.

/Likes my church
//Had cigars and whiskey with the pastor last Friday


I have yet to meet a MoSyn pastor who hasn't confessed privately that he wishes their leadership would be a lot less prickish.  And they ALL have stories about being called out for straying from the "true faith" and risking giving a crap about someone who isn't a verified and confirmed LCMS member.

/LCMS definition of outreach to the community is trimming the bushes back so the sign can be seen from the road.
 
2013-02-07 11:07:26 PM

whither_apophis: Because next time, Christians are going to do the throwing to the lions damn it!


God damn it!  You just stole my idea for the next "Unamerican Gladiators" pitch!
 
2013-02-07 11:32:14 PM
CTRL+F sarca ...

Really? No one else suspects a forced apology for giving "the impression differences w/r/t who God is, who Jesus is ... don't matter in the end" is almost certainly 100% sarcastic?

Give the guy a little credit here. Oh well, on the bright side if Fark didn't get it, his superiors won't either.
 
2013-02-08 12:29:02 AM

George Babbitt: Ed Grubermann: George Babbitt: 3)God may send people to Hell. Hell in my mind has always been formed in the thought of being without His company for eternity. What's a little fire on top of that?

What's the difference between the life I've always led and me being set on fire?

I don't know the life you've lived, and it doesn't matter, for even if I did know I still couldn't say how things would turn out for you even if you spit in Jesus' eye and told Him to go to Hell, I still wouldn't know. "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven."(Mark 3:28-29) and who would be silly enough to deny that which he has never known and cannot disprove? Also how could he deny something if he doesn't even believe it exists? The point is that God has set things up so that it is nearly impossible to go to Hell. Is it a possibility on the order of reaching zero, but always halving itself a little closer but infinitely far away? Yes. But that is not what God wants. He wants to reconciled with all people, no matter what they've done. Name the person in history that you would deem worthy of eternal torment and I'll show you someone who can be a mirror for God's infinite capacity for love.


Yay. More Bible quotes. You just can't stop failing, can you? This is the part you don't understand: your Bible is not a credible source, nor is it proof. It doesn't matter what it says because God didn't write it. Humans claiming to speak for Him did. And I don't have to disprove God. You have to prove Him. Which you have utterly failed to do so many times it's just pathetic. Please, prove that your God is real and all of the tens of thousands of gods people have worshiped over the hundreds of thousands of years we've existed are false. You can't.
 
2013-02-08 01:36:39 AM
This is what happens when you take God out of prayer vigils.
 
2013-02-08 02:49:06 AM

George Babbitt: Keizer_Ghidorah:

When you get a chance, look up 'complex question fallacy' and then try this again. Peace.


So you have no answer to why a supposedly all-powerful, all-loving deity couldn't notice his nemesis screwing around with his creation and then cursed all of creation for all of eternity just to punish one species of animal for becoming intelligent?

Humans created gods because they were dumb and needed to explain why everything happened the way they did. We're smart now, we no longer need fairy tales to explain why lightning strikes, why birds fly south for the winter, and why the tides ebb and rise.
 
2013-02-08 03:21:57 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: couldn't notice his nemesis screwing around with his creation


BTW in the book of Job Satan only tests Job after God gives him permission to do it, and God only gives Satan permission because he knows how good of a man Job is and he won't falter. So yeah, Satan doesn't even screw with someone without God's permission. The few other times he comes up he can do nothing more than basically be the voice of temptation.
 
2013-02-08 05:19:17 AM

CheapEngineer: [skywriter2012.files.wordpress.com image 470x353]

\apologies are the new Black
\\except for the one in the White House


that dude does NOT look healthy!
 
2013-02-08 07:24:48 AM

pciszek: redundantman: DIE HERETIC! (Which is German for "The heretic!")

Are heretics feminine?


I suppose the German ones are.
 
2013-02-08 07:27:57 AM

Oreamnos: Voiceofreason01: Kyosuke:
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

--Emo Phillips

Awww, it's so sad because it's often so true.

/at least the Lutheran Church of America is still OK

The ELCA is only vaguely Lutheran anymore. The degree depends on the particular congregation. From what I have seen, it's pretty much "anything goes".

/In no way saying that LC-MS is making a good call on this particular news story, however


You sound Missouri
/ELCA
 
2013-02-08 07:31:16 AM

Waldo Pepper: Hey look it is another anti Christian tread on fark where all the farkers who have tickets to hell get to show off how little they know about God


Aw, cool! They're selling tickets now?
 
2013-02-08 07:41:09 AM

All2morrowsparTs: Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

So wait, which god is the write one the Jewish and Musliim god of Exodus, Isiah, Hosea, and for that matter Jesus, and Mohamed or the god of Christian which is Jesus? Beucasue I'm sure tree of those quotes were dictated before Jesus was ever born.


Know how I know you don't understand the concept of trinitarianism?
 
2013-02-08 09:32:12 AM

Truther: As a pastor, I can say with some confidence that God doesn't like His children fighting like this.

God loves us all, even atheists!  :)


Awwwww... how farking sweet of him.
 
2013-02-08 09:58:32 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: George Babbitt: To all the people that are condemning Christianity for sending folks to Hell...answer this, name one person you know   is in Hell? Nothing is known till the last day, when all will stand before the White Throne of Judgement and give account. Some will have an advocate in Christ, some who never leaned of him will stand or fall on their own deeds, some who lived before Him get a pass for living as God told them and some are a 'law unto themselves'. So it tells us in the last book of the Bible. The final story on each of us is not written until the last chapter is written. It's a sliding scale with more confidence on some paths, and less confidence on others. Yet, not one person has been eternally condemned to this day. God wishes to make all things right, and so the possibility and likelihood of that happening is high before the end comes for this age. Just sayin.

Why would God send anyone to hell anyway? Doesn't he have the power to make people good again and erase sin, because he's, you know, all-powerful and all-loving? Didn't he create everything in the first place because of his love? Sending people to eternal torture when he has the power to remove all evil and sin doesn't sound like the actions a loving, omnipotent being, it sound's like the actions of someone like Q, dicking around for his own amusement an reveling in the torment of others.


Please find enclosed $9.95 for a 12 month subscription to your newsletter.
 
2013-02-08 10:05:56 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Why would God send anyone to hell anyway?


Well, seeing how hell is the most perverse concept even conceived (eternal torture without parole or any attempt at rehabilitation, etc.) it is pretty obvious that god is the ultimate sadist.

Only a sadist can torture someone they love and god kicks it up a notch by eternally torturing people (whom he loves!!).

/sick farker seriously needs to see a therapist
 
2013-02-08 11:23:27 AM

Ed Grubermann: "I am about as strong an Atheist as you are going to find. I do not believe in the existence of any form of god. I also do not believe in angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, reincarnation, faeries, Santa, or the Easter platypus. I do not believe in the supernatural: all things that happen have natural explanations."


I didn't know you were religious zealot like me when we started talking, I would have offered the secret handshake and saved us both a lot of time.
 
2013-02-08 11:29:58 AM

Lumpmoose: Of course, to an ELCA Lutheran, A Prairie Home Companion is evangelizing.


Forgot to mark that "Funny" yesterday.

Also, I'm stealing that.
 
2013-02-08 12:05:46 PM

Abacus9: All2morrowsparTs: Mija: Jesus does hate when others pray to false Gods. In fact, to clarify, Gods word says:

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.

Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

So wait, which god is the write one the Jewish and Musliim god of Exodus, Isiah, Hosea, and for that matter Jesus, and Mohamed or the god of Christian which is Jesus? Beucasue I'm sure tree of those quotes were dictated before Jesus was ever born.

Know how I know you don't understand the concept of trinitarianism?


Or English?
 
2013-02-08 12:29:36 PM
I've heard nothing about heaven that makes me want to go there.

Some say, "It's better than hell."

Would you want to spend 2 weeks at a resort that advertised that?  2000 years?
Is that the best that can be said about heaven?  I'll pass.
 
2013-02-08 12:31:15 PM

Abacus9: Oreamnos: The ELCA is only vaguely Lutheran anymore. The degree depends on the particular congregation. From what I have seen, it's pretty much "anything goes".

/In no way saying that LC-MS is making a good call on this particular news story, however

You sound Missouri
/ELCA


There's an old Doonesbury comic I remember in which Mike and Boopsie are seated together discussing Nixon vs. McGovern. Boopsie says she is for Nixon. Mike asks, "Do you believe in peace and prosperity and fair play? Do you believe in the promise of the American spirit, and the dignity of all men and women?" to which Boopsie says "Sure I do!". Then Mike says, "Then you're for George McGovern. He's for all those things". To which Boopsie replies, "Wow...and I thought I was for Nixon."

This is me and the ELCA. Most of the things that, nominally, the ELCA is (as enumerated by Voiceofreason01--scholarly interpretation and historical context of the Bible, liberal views on a lot of social issues), I support. But I just can't get on board with the wishy-washy worship service style at the ELCA congregations I've visited. So yeah, I'm still LCMS as far as that goes.

/Great, now I've compared the LCMS to Nixon. Have fun with that.
//Maybe the problem isn't ELCA as much as it is the Norwegian congregations
///German heritage
 
2013-02-09 02:23:36 AM

George Babbitt: Aigoo: George Babbitt:

That's not what I or the word said. Jesus said forgive someone 7 times 70 times, because by the time you have actually forgiven someone 490 times, for sure you have lost count and so you should just forgive them again, and if you do keep an accurate count, you're missing the point.

Actually, the Koine Greek says seventy times seven times a day.

If we're to follow the example of Christ, who can only do as He has seen the Father do, one could reasonably infer that God must then abide by the same requirement He is holding us to in this regard.

I thought that was a given, but yes I don't think that He asks more of us than He is willing to do Himself, hence His telling us to "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." while remembering "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me."


No, that was Paul who wrote that. If you're accepting that Christ is Lord and Savior (or, to use the Jewish term--though most practicing Jews do not claim Christ as such--Messiah), then you cannot deny both his human and divine nature. And if divine, then perfect, elsewise he could not be the Messiah. There are, in all of scripture, two qualified to hold both the office of King and High Priest simultaneously--Melchizedek and Christ. Even David, a man of God's own heart, was not qualified to do so, nor was Solomon, who was tasked with building the Temple. Moses himself--though called a "friend of God," as was Abraham--was not so qualified (as Abraham paid the tithe to Melchizedek)!

Mister Babbitt, I pray with great fervor that whoever called you a Pastor earlier in this thread was being sarcastic. You yourself have demonstrated here--amply--that you are not able to digest meat and, in fact, are barely capable of digesting milk. If you are teaching others the garbage you are spewing here, may God have pity on them and mercy on you.
 
2013-02-09 02:26:46 AM
Clarifying:

Christ said:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Paul (a.k.a. Saul of Tarsus) said:
"Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me."

Because I know someone will get into the semantics :P
 
2013-02-09 07:41:28 AM

Aigoo: George Babbitt: Aigoo: George Babbitt:

That's not what I or the word said. Jesus said forgive someone 7 times 70 times, because by the time you have actually forgiven someone 490 times, for sure you have lost count and so you should just forgive them again, and if you do keep an accurate count, you're missing the point.

Actually, the Koine Greek says seventy times seven times a day.

If we're to follow the example of Christ, who can only do as He has seen the Father do, one could reasonably infer that God must then abide by the same requirement He is holding us to in this regard.

I thought that was a given, but yes I don't think that He asks more of us than He is willing to do Himself, hence His telling us to "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." while remembering "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me."

No, that was Paul who wrote that. If you're accepting that Christ is Lord and Savior (or, to use the Jewish term--though most practicing Jews do not claim Christ as such--Messiah), then you cannot deny both his human and divine nature. And if divine, then perfect, elsewise he could not be the Messiah. There are, in all of scripture, two qualified to hold both the office of King and High Priest simultaneously--Melchizedek and Christ. Even David, a man of God's own heart, was not qualified to do so, nor was Solomon, who was tasked with building the Temple. Moses himself--though called a "friend of God," as was Abraham--was not so qualified (as Abraham paid the tithe to Melchizedek)!

Mister Babbitt, I pray with great fervor that whoever called you a Pastor earlier in this thread was being sarcastic. You yourself have demonstrated here--amply--that you are not able to digest meat and, in fact, are barely capable of digesting milk. If you are teaching others the garbage you are spewing here, may God have pity on them and mercy on ...



I thought this was done, but I'll continue on for the sake of serious discourse.


Christ told us "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48. But it is of import that we remember as Paul did ""Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." Philippians 3:12. <--Does that clear up my syntax for you?

Did you think I was ascribing the Priesthood of Melchizedek to the Apostle Paul? Or that I was failing to ascribe it to Jesus Christ?
You might want to seek clarification before shouting 'Raca!'(Matt 5:22) at me.

/If there is value in being born again and being made into a new creation, then there is value in not having to be called by the name of the life you lived prior to being made new....his name is not Saul of Tarsus, his name is Paul and he is an Apostle of God.
 
2013-02-09 10:09:48 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: And Christians wonder why people are ignoring, laughing at, and leaving them more and more these days.

Didn't God say to love your neighbor as yourself? Didn't God say not to judge, lest you yourself be judged, because there is no other judge but God? Didn't God say that what you do to the least among you, you do to me? Didn't Jesus have some choice words about hypocrites? You also speak for him a lot about what he supposedly hates (which happens to be everything you hate, how about that), which confuses me because your book says God loves everything, and created everything out of love. If he hates those things so much, why doesn't he get rid of them? What, free will? What free will? If I don't spend every waking hour of my life kowtowing to God and declaring that he is real and is my master and all my works are for him, I'm going to spend eternity in unspeakable torture along with most of all of humanity that's ever existed. Christians can't even agree with each other about anything, that's why there's more sects of Christianity than there are species of bats, and every single one of them declares the rest are false and God will smite you for following any of them but the supposed "true" sect.


at no point did God or Jesus say it was okay to pray or worship with those who are praying or worshiping other gods.  Methodist don't feel they are right and Baptist (as an example) are worshipping the wrong God it is just a matter of preference in style of worship and praise and minor differences.
 
2013-02-09 10:16:57 AM

Waldo Pepper: at no point did God or Jesus say it was okay to pray or worship with those who are praying or worshiping other gods. Methodist don't feel they are right and Baptist (as an example) are worshipping the wrong God it is just a matter of preference in style of worship and praise and minor differences.


You have to consider things from the creator/leaders of the religion's point of view. If you allow for alternatives then you lose profit.

They have to make it very clear: ours is the only way. Sign-up here for your ticket to heaven and certainly don't forget about the collection basket!
 
2013-02-09 10:25:30 AM

Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: at no point did God or Jesus say it was okay to pray or worship with those who are praying or worshiping other gods. Methodist don't feel they are right and Baptist (as an example) are worshipping the wrong God it is just a matter of preference in style of worship and praise and minor differences.

You have to consider things from the creator/leaders of the religion's point of view. If you allow for alternatives then you lose profit.

They have to make it very clear: ours is the only way. Sign-up here for your ticket to heaven and certainly don't forget about the collection basket!


well since the subject of the thread is Lutheran attending an "interfaith" prayer. I believe my statement is accurate. A Christian should never attend an interfaith prayer as it gives credence that the other's beliefs are okay with God and being a Christian there is no way to say that the muslim allah is God as Jesus is the Son of God and this is not a muslim belief.
 
2013-02-09 10:39:34 AM

Waldo Pepper: well since the subject of the thread is Lutheran attending an "interfaith" prayer. I believe my statement is accurate. A Christian should never attend an interfaith prayer as it gives credence that the other's beliefs are okay with God and being a Christian there is no way to say that the muslim allah is God as Jesus is the Son of God and this is not a muslim belief.


I think we are in agreement that it make perfect sense for one religion not to legitimize other religions (or even other variations on their own religion).

We just disagree on the reason. You feel it may anger the invisible guy in the sky and I feel it will negatively impact profits.
 
2013-02-09 04:32:28 PM

Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: well since the subject of the thread is Lutheran attending an "interfaith" prayer. I believe my statement is accurate. A Christian should never attend an interfaith prayer as it gives credence that the other's beliefs are okay with God and being a Christian there is no way to say that the muslim allah is God as Jesus is the Son of God and this is not a muslim belief.

I think we are in agreement that it make perfect sense for one religion not to legitimize other religions (or even other variations on their own religion).

We just disagree on the reason. You feel it may anger the invisible guy in the sky and I feel it will negatively impact profits.


And if it did anger God, you think he'd have done something about it by now. Remember when he opened the ground and killed half of the people he spent ten plagues on freeing for worshiping a gold calf?
 
2013-02-09 05:27:24 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: well since the subject of the thread is Lutheran attending an "interfaith" prayer. I believe my statement is accurate. A Christian should never attend an interfaith prayer as it gives credence that the other's beliefs are okay with God and being a Christian there is no way to say that the muslim allah is God as Jesus is the Son of God and this is not a muslim belief.

I think we are in agreement that it make perfect sense for one religion not to legitimize other religions (or even other variations on their own religion).

We just disagree on the reason. You feel it may anger the invisible guy in the sky and I feel it will negatively impact profits.

And if it did anger God, you think he'd have done something about it by now. Remember when he opened the ground and killed half of the people he spent ten plagues on freeing for worshiping a gold calf?


It is not about angering God.  it is about doing what you know is not right, also as a Christian one should do there best not to mislead those who are weak in the Spirit.   Billy Graham going to an interfaith prayer would in no way lead him astray or to be confused but someone who is new or weak in the Christian faith might be confused or easily led astray.

  I feel it is very hard for the average person to anger God.
 
2013-02-09 09:17:25 PM

Waldo Pepper: I feel it is very hard for the average person to anger God.


Not surprising ... since the bible is so clear on this:

God's anger is fierce and endures long - Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4

vs.

God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute - Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
 
2013-02-10 11:37:32 PM

Oreamnos: Abacus9: Oreamnos: The ELCA is only vaguely Lutheran anymore. The degree depends on the particular congregation. From what I have seen, it's pretty much "anything goes".

/In no way saying that LC-MS is making a good call on this particular news story, however

You sound Missouri
/ELCA

There's an old Doonesbury comic I remember in which Mike and Boopsie are seated together discussing Nixon vs. McGovern. Boopsie says she is for Nixon. Mike asks, "Do you believe in peace and prosperity and fair play? Do you believe in the promise of the American spirit, and the dignity of all men and women?" to which Boopsie says "Sure I do!". Then Mike says, "Then you're for George McGovern. He's for all those things". To which Boopsie replies, "Wow...and I thought I was for Nixon."

This is me and the ELCA. Most of the things that, nominally, the ELCA is (as enumerated by Voiceofreason01--scholarly interpretation and historical context of the Bible, liberal views on a lot of social issues), I support. But I just can't get on board with the wishy-washy worship service style at the ELCA congregations I've visited. So yeah, I'm still LCMS as far as that goes.

/Great, now I've compared the LCMS to Nixon. Have fun with that.
//Maybe the problem isn't ELCA as much as it is the Norwegian congregations
///German heritage


Maybe it's just the individual churches you've been to, but my ELCA service is more or less indistinguishable from Roman Catholic.
 
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