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(National Journal)   Americans don't know that we could be energy independent by 2020, if we wanted to   (nationaljournal.com) divider line 226
    More: Scary, Americans, energy independent, U.S. Energy Information Administration, trade gap, presidential administrations, International Energy Agency, Pennsylvania Avenue, ISI  
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5271 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Feb 2013 at 2:59 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-07 08:39:34 AM  
Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.
 
2013-02-07 08:52:22 AM  

Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.


Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.
 
2013-02-07 10:26:57 AM  
With the money we spent on the Iraq/Afghanistan war we could have produced enough power to meet the entire world's draw for centuries using geothermal resources only in the US from a pure amount of power that could be produced.  MIT published this in the 90's.  it's farking disgusting that we don't prioritize renewable infrastructure improvements over petroleum.
 
2013-02-07 01:39:28 PM  
Hey - remember when Carter had us on that path nearly 4 decades ago, then Reagan tore the solar panels off the White House roof?

good times

-_o
 
2013-02-07 01:45:15 PM  
Energy independence is an incredibly stupid idea and for the life of me I don't know why anyone would want to do it.
 
2013-02-07 01:58:34 PM  

Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.


Yes, it's Hollywood holding back energy independence.
 
2013-02-07 02:02:16 PM  

Lurking Fear: Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.

Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.



This message hase been brought to you by your friends at OPEC.
OPEC fuels the World!
 
2013-02-07 02:07:07 PM  

Lurking Fear: Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.

Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.


Interesting how many people rush to defend oil companies and their dirty fuel and destructive operations.

I mean, if your income depends on the industry, that's one thing, but ordinary Joes running around defending Exxon, Shell, BP, etc?  That's just farking weird/stupid/crazy.
 
2013-02-07 02:09:33 PM  
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/02/the-myth-of-energ y -independence-why-we-cant-drill-our-way-to-oil-autonomy/252812/

Energy independence is a myth.

Unless every American greatly reduces their energy use and goes 'off the grid'.

This is what "energy independence" looks like.

t0.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-07 02:16:41 PM  
Natural gas can be a game-changer on a lot of levels, but we need to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past.  Regulatory capture led to the oil and coal industries running wild, polluting like mad and getting workers killed with their bad practices.  We have a chance to do it right this time.  Smart, effective regulation that is actually enforced can curb these problems before they arise and make the natural gas explosion (yay puns) popular and sustainable.

That said, odds are that history will repeat itself yet again.
 
2013-02-07 02:20:02 PM  
Oil production in the United States hit a 20-year high in January, and the International Energy Agency is predicting that it should surpass Saudi Arabia, the leader, by 2019.

Like most things in life.  If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/02/u_s _s hale_oil_are_we_headed_to_a_new_era_of_oil_abundance.html

Energy independent itself a misnomer as energy is a global commodity, but I digress, the Saudi America idea rests on the idea that this oil is recoverable.  While it may be with future technology, consider the increasing costs of marginal production from fracking.  Oil is currently at a US production high, but the price of WTI is trending to $100 and keep in mind that that's without the Keystone extension which should export even more oil from the US.

The dream is the cheap gasoline of yore.  The reality is that even if this oil is extractable, the price of it will be so high that you'll submit to being seen in a Prius.
 
2013-02-07 02:21:03 PM  

Lurking Fear: Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water.


Trading in an energy shortage for a drinking water shortage does have some significant drawbacks to it.
 
2013-02-07 02:38:32 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Lurking Fear: Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.

Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.

Interesting how many people rush to defend oil companies and their dirty fuel and destructive operations.

I mean, if your income depends on the industry, that's one thing, but ordinary Joes running around defending Exxon, Shell, BP, etc?  That's just farking weird/stupid/crazy.


Again, proof? accusing me of defending oil companies doesn't refute the fact that fracking is ruining groundwater supplies. I don't care if its oil, natural gas, or any other fossil fuel. None of these industries can be trusted to take care of the public's best interest. I'd rather pay more for gas or oil (which I can also manage completely without) than have a poisoned drinking water supply.
 
2013-02-07 02:43:35 PM  

Lurking Fear: Lionel Mandrake: Lurking Fear: Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.

Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.

Interesting how many people rush to defend oil companies and their dirty fuel and destructive operations.

I mean, if your income depends on the industry, that's one thing, but ordinary Joes running around defending Exxon, Shell, BP, etc?  That's just farking weird/stupid/crazy.

Again, proof? accusing me of defending oil companies doesn't refute the fact that fracking is ruining groundwater supplies. I don't care if its oil, natural gas, or any other fossil fuel. None of these industries can be trusted to take care of the public's best interest. I'd rather pay more for gas or oil (which I can also manage completely without) than have a poisoned drinking water supply.


I wasn't accusing you of anything.  I was merely commenting on the phenomenon of people (like Elvis) rushing in to white knight for the most powerful corporations in the world.
 
2013-02-07 02:46:23 PM  

give me doughnuts: Lurking Fear: Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.

Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.


This message hase been brought to you by your friends at OPEC.
OPEC fuels the World!

Oh please. Don't take my word for it, do your own research, rather than regurgitating the GOP memo of the week. And refute this:
http://www.propublica.org/article/scientific-study-links-flammable-d ri nking-water-to-fracking
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LBjSXWQRV8
and these:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lighting+tap+water+on+fire&hl=en&cli en t=firefox-a&hs=3Qt&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&sourc e=univ&sa=X&ei=GAQUUaqXDYXxyAGEoIHgDA&ved=0CFwQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=918
 
2013-02-07 02:48:53 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Lurking Fear: Lionel Mandrake: Lurking Fear: Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.

Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.

Interesting how many people rush to defend oil companies and their dirty fuel and destructive operations.

I mean, if your income depends on the industry, that's one thing, but ordinary Joes running around defending Exxon, Shell, BP, etc?  That's just farking weird/stupid/crazy.

Again, proof? accusing me of defending oil companies doesn't refute the fact that fracking is ruining groundwater supplies. I don't care if its oil, natural gas, or any other fossil fuel. None of these industries can be trusted to take care of the public's best interest. I'd rather pay more for gas or oil (which I can also manage completely without) than have a poisoned drinking water supply.

I wasn't accusing you of anything.  I was merely commenting on the phenomenon of people (like Elvis) rushing in to white knight for the most powerful corporations in the world.


My mistake then. It seemed like the usual right-wing defense of fracking by sdaying the poisoning is fabricated lies funded by OPEC.
 
2013-02-07 02:53:28 PM  

Lurking Fear: My mistake then. It seemed like the usual right-wing defense of fracking by sdaying the poisoning is fabricated lies funded by OPEC.


I wasn't even aware of that tin-foil-worthy "theory."  It's hard to keep track of all the paranoid shiat coming from right field these days.
 
2013-02-07 02:59:31 PM  

Lurking Fear: Oh please. Don't take my word for it, do your own research, rather than regurgitating the GOP memo of the week. And refute this:
http://www.propublica.org/article/scientific-study-links-flammable-d ri nking-water-to-fracking


FTFL: While most of the wells had some methane, the water samples taken closest to the gas wells had on average 17 times the levels detected in wells further from active drilling. The group defined an active drilling area as within one kilometer, or about six tenths of a mile, from a gas well.

A lot of concerns about drinking water can likely be addressed with a strong permitting system that keeps the "active drilling area" clear of major water sources.  The companies may have to pass on some deposits and/or pay more to get to other ones, but it preserves the water supply..
 
2013-02-07 03:01:35 PM  
We could have been energy independent in 2012 but P. Fart had to go and shut down all domestic oil production!
 
2013-02-07 03:02:45 PM  
Considering that energy independence was a huge part of Romney's campaign and he wasn't voted-in, I guess people prefer paying a lot more to get their energy from elsewhere.
 
2013-02-07 03:03:12 PM  
I think the case isn't because WE want to, but because of a certain handful of rich evil white men don't want it to be.
 
2013-02-07 03:07:27 PM  
We could power the country's entire needs using a part of unused New Mexico and Arizona with solar power for virtually no cost after cost of construction.
 
2013-02-07 03:07:46 PM  
I recently discovered that converting my car to run on natural gas would cost about $1400. (Was told this by a trusted friend, but haven't researched it myself, so YMMV)

I'd do it, and have a natural gas tank installed at my house, but occasionally I travel far enough that I'd need a lot of alternative fill-up places to make it doable.
 
2013-02-07 03:10:18 PM  
Most Americans would be astonished to learn that North America could be energy independent by 2020,

O_O

thanks to the technological advances in the exploration and production of natural gas and oil

ಠ_ಠ
 
2013-02-07 03:11:09 PM  
"Oil production in the United States hit a 20-year high in January "

How is this possible, considering that Obama hates American oil, refuses to build Keystone (and the 90 cents per gallon gas it will generate), is shutting down all off-shore drilling, and loves his greenie friends in the solar and wind "energy" fields?
 
2013-02-07 03:11:20 PM  

ExpressPork: Considering that energy independence was a huge part of Romney's campaign and he wasn't voted-in, I guess people prefer paying a lot more to get their energy from elsewhere.


Well, maybe he should have told us how he was going to do it.   Hell, if he's so interested in it, maybe he should call up the President and volunteer to be the energy Czar.

But he's not going to, because Romney's entire energy platform was just stupid and blatant lies about what Obama had done in the past.

// Well, he did make some vague hand-waving about how North America could be energy independent, if you counted Venezuela as a part of North America.
 
2013-02-07 03:13:18 PM  

me texan: With the money we spent on the Iraq/Afghanistan war we could have produced enough power to meet the entire world's draw for centuries using geothermal resources only in the US from a pure amount of power that could be produced.  MIT published this in the 90's.  it's farking disgusting that we don't prioritize renewable infrastructure improvements over petroleum.


This. Geothermal is where it is at.
 
2013-02-07 03:13:33 PM  
The problem with quick energy independence is that there is no single path to do it: a long-term renewable plan must be paired with a short-term fossil plan in order for either one to work, and neither side trusts the other enough to work together in that way. One could draw parallels with the rest of politics.
 
2013-02-07 03:13:39 PM  
"So hey, there are a bunch of natural gas an oil deposits in America that can be used for jobs and energy production!"

Oh?

"But we'll have to pump a bunch of crap in your water supply to do it."

Uh...

"And we'll probably just export it overseas so gas prices here wont go down.

Yeah, nah.
 
2013-02-07 03:13:46 PM  

encyclopediaplushuman: We could power the country's entire needs using a part of unused New Mexico and Arizona with solar power for virtually no cost after cost of construction.


Almost this.  Solar isn't enough to keep things going at night, and even an Arizona winter has less sun.  If you can use some of that power for hydro-energy pumping storage, though, then it could work.

It will, of course, never happen, because this country won't spend the ~$10 trillion it would take.  We prefer to use that money for oil subsidies.
 
2013-02-07 03:14:02 PM  

ExpressPork: Considering that energy independence was a huge part of Romney's campaign and he wasn't voted-in, I guess people prefer paying a lot more to get their energy from elsewhere.


i would most certainly pay more for electricity if it meant the GOP would never win a major election.
 
2013-02-07 03:14:07 PM  

gameshowhost: Hey - remember when Carter had us on that path nearly 4 decades ago, then Reagan tore the solar panels off the White House roof?

good times

-_o



Not for nothing, but TFA is about domestic oil and gas ... :/

You may be interested in this, though: http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2013/02/thursday-links.html
1.bp.blogspot.com
"The above shows recent and projected costs per watt for Chinese solar panels. The recent price reductions have been incredible. [...] this is capitalism doing what it does best: brutal competition to get more and more efficient, the weakest going to the wall, and a critically important technology becoming cheaper and cheaper for global civilization to use. "
 
2013-02-07 03:14:10 PM  

Lurking Fear: Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.

Where did you get this idea, from Hannity? Prove it. Fracking is horrible for the environment, particularly for aquifiers and your drinking water. Do some research on it yourself, rather than regurgitating your corporate overlord's marching orders.


you just need to study it out, LF.
 
2013-02-07 03:16:01 PM  

StopLurkListen: gameshowhost: Hey - remember when Carter had us on that path nearly 4 decades ago, then Reagan tore the solar panels off the White House roof?

good times

-_o


Not for nothing, but TFA is about domestic oil and gas ... :/

You may be interested in this, though: http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2013/02/thursday-links.html
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x289]
"The above shows recent and projected costs per watt for Chinese solar panels. The recent price reductions have been incredible. [...] this is capitalism doing what it does best: brutal competition to get more and more efficient, the weakest going to the wall, and a critically important technology becoming cheaper and cheaper for global civilization to use. "


As a recent visitor to a Chinese solar cell manufacturer, I can definitely say I was impressed.  They've gotten a single junction cell to a 21% efficiency.

Now if they only pumped some resources into keeping things clean...
 
2013-02-07 03:16:20 PM  

ExpressPork: Considering that energy independence  letting Big Oil do whatever the fark they want was a huge part of Romney's campaign and he wasn't voted-in, I guess people prefer paying a lot more to get their energy from elsewhere.


FTFY
 
2013-02-07 03:16:42 PM  

DamnYankees: Energy independence is an incredibly stupid idea and for the life of me I don't know why anyone would want to do it.


You enjoy exporting our wealth for an energy source?
 
2013-02-07 03:17:02 PM  

Lurking Fear: My mistake then. It seemed like the usual right-wing defense of fracking by sdaying the poisoning is fabricated lies funded by OPEC.


That is a fascinating technique.
 
2013-02-07 03:18:30 PM  

Elvis_Bogart: Not with Hollywood making anti-fracking movies funded by UAE money.


Do you use wi-fi in that underground bunker or did you run some Cat6 into it? The black-suit guys in the van want to know.
 
2013-02-07 03:21:21 PM  

DamnYankees: Energy independence is an incredibly stupid idea and for the life of me I don't know why anyone would want to do it.


I get the feeling that when you're super-conservative you just get used to hopping onto the wrong side of most issues and so a lot of this resistance from the Right Wing is just out of habit.
 
2013-02-07 03:21:24 PM  

ExpressPork: Considering that energy independence was a huge part of Romney's campaign and he wasn't voted-in, I guess people prefer paying a lot more to get their energy from elsewhere.


Yeah, that must be it.
 
2013-02-07 03:21:39 PM  
I love the energy that petroleum produces. I love cooked food, air conditioning, a warm house when it's cold out,  driving a diesel powered truck, boats with outboard motors, taking hot showers, driving on tires instead of wooden wheels, fresh food delivered from afar,  etc, etc.

Love these idiots that say, "I don't need energy, I ride my bike to work. Hurrrrrr, durrrrrrrr!!!" This is usually said by some apartment dweller in NYC or San Francisco that doesn't have a clue.

Dumb arses.
 
2013-02-07 03:21:42 PM  
Independence, Dependence, who cares. You all can fight over your dirty oil & polluted water and choking brownish-gray smog.

As soon as I'm out of this damned mortgage hole (Thanks, banksters and Alan Greenspan!) ...
i86.photobucket.com
i225.photobucket.com
i79.photobucket.com

Soon...
 
2013-02-07 03:22:44 PM  
You know, the hippies of the 70's would never have let fracking go the way it has.

You kids, I swear.
 
2013-02-07 03:23:14 PM  
Oh, okay, put everything into current generation fossil fuels. That sounds smart.
 
2013-02-07 03:25:31 PM  

DamnYankees: Energy independence is an incredibly stupid idea and for the life of me I don't know why anyone would want to do it.


I know you are probably trolling, but just in case....

Reasons to want energy independence
* Money spent on fuel stays in the country. Money is good stuff to have around.
* Local energy supply would be much harder to disrupt (enemies, terrorists, etc)
* Independence removes most reasons to get tangled up in the middle east messes.
* Growing the energy industry here creates jobs. Jerbs are good.
* Sending less money to terror sponsoring states like Iran, UAE, etc would be good.

So, why are you against it?
 
2013-02-07 03:26:30 PM  

ExpressPork: Considering that energy independence was a huge part of Romney's campaign and he wasn't voted-in, I guess people prefer paying a lot more to get their energy from elsewhere.


img233.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-07 03:26:32 PM  
I don't know. Using up everyone else's energy reserves first, leaving us sitting on the last remaining oil and gas fields seems like it could be a decent long term national security strategy.
 
2013-02-07 03:27:51 PM  
StopLurkListen, all that stuff in your pictures is a real pain in the arse to maintain. I prefer to pay the power company to deal with that stuff.

Hybrid vehicles like the Prius do not save you any money, they may use less gas, but their cost per mile to operate is expensive.
 
2013-02-07 03:29:06 PM  

the_foo: I don't know. Using up everyone else's energy reserves first, leaving us sitting on the last remaining oil and gas fields seems like it could be a decent long term national security strategy.


Sit on it now while developing future tech. Then when everyone else begins to run out, we've got our doomsday cushion, and advanced tech to take up the slack/eventually take over.
 
2013-02-07 03:29:06 PM  
If energy independence just means drilling into American land, then I don't care to be energy independent. What the United States needs is renewable energy independence.

Have you hike the Appalachian Mountains?
Have you snowboarded the Rocky Mountains?
Have you surfed the Pacific Ocean?
Have you fished in the Gulf of Mexico?
Have you drifted the dunes or sped on the salt flats of the desert?
Have you trekked out into the plains or fields of the Midwest to collect your thoughts?

Anyone that has traveled this beautiful country would not want to see any part of it destroyed or harmed.

Just look at what we Americans used to do to our environment before we made some changes....

New York City:
i234.photobucket.com

Cleveland:

i234.photobucket.com

Pennsylvania:
i234.photobucket.com
 
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