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(ESPN)   Kansas loses second conference game in a row, this time to TCU, giving the Horned Frogs their first Big 12 win ever. Duke says, "Wait a minute, we don't suck that bad"   (scores.espn.go.com) divider line 32
    More: Fail, Horned Frogs, TCU, Kansas, frogs, Jayhawks, Allen Fieldhouse, Bill Self, Andy Katz  
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324 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Feb 2013 at 11:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-07 10:55:07 AM
I still think Kansas could take NIU.
 
2013-02-07 11:03:54 AM
Fark says, "Sure you do."
 
2013-02-07 11:10:37 AM
Elijah Johnson was farking awful. They all were, but him in particular.

Thus far, it's like they decided to take February off.
 
2013-02-07 11:15:41 AM
Most deserving court rush of the decade.  I almost found myself rooting for KU to only score four points in the first half.  Almost.  I really thought they had a shot!
 
2013-02-07 11:18:17 AM

Solid State Vittles: Most deserving court rush of the decade.  I almost found myself rooting for KU to only score four points in the first half.  Almost.  I really thought they had a shot!


I turned the game on and there was 17-some minutes on the clock and they had 15 points and I said "Holy shiat, they got off to a fast start!"... then I saw they were already in the 2nd half.
 
2013-02-07 12:02:26 PM
Bill Self has to be one of the biggest assholes in sports. It's one thing to chew someone out in a locker room, but doing it in a press conference (two games in a row now) is completely classless.
 
2013-02-07 12:38:41 PM
Biggest defeat in terms of RPI differential in twenty years or something.  Woof.
 
2013-02-07 12:52:07 PM

Mateorocks: Elijah Johnson was farking awful. They all were, but him in particular.

Thus far, it's like they decided to take February off.


Something is wrong in the locker room. A three hour meeting after your second loss? Then this clusterfark? Something isn't right behind the scenes.

Cagey B: Bill Self has to be one of the biggest assholes in sports. It's one thing to chew someone out in a locker room, but doing it in a press conference (two games in a row now) is completely classless.


They were awful last night. That's the worst game I've seen them play since the first game I can remember in 1986. It was embarrassing and it doesn't happen at Kansas. They deserve to be called out. And he's publicly defended his point guard, who is terrible right now, for the last two weeks.

Every coach in America will do, or has done that, probably this year.
 
2013-02-07 12:53:40 PM

Mentat: I still think Kansas could take NIU.


I bet they could beat Norfolk State too.
 
2013-02-07 12:55:59 PM
This is all part of KU's plan to crush the dreams and hopes of K-Stater's everywhere.

They do this all the time.  They play down to the competition and on occasion screw up like this, seemingly incomprehensibly.

But then watch this Monday as KU hangs a 30 point lead over K-State by the half.

:(
 
2013-02-07 01:16:29 PM

mitchcumstein1: They were awful last night. That's the worst game I've seen them play since the first game I can remember in 1986. It was embarrassing and it doesn't happen at Kansas. They deserve to be called out. And he's publicly defended his point guard, who is terrible right now, for the last two weeks.


Who, Elijah Johnson? The dude he humiliated in a press conference last week? Who happens to be playing out of position? Heck of a public defense there, Selfie.


Every coach in America will do, or has done that, probably this year.

Every coach in America has publicly ripped on his team two games in a row in press conferences? Are you high? Here's a question, has Bill Self ever looked at himself at any point this season and said, "hmmm, maybe there's something about the schemes I'm running or the way I'm leading this team that's causing clearly talented athletes to play like shiat?"

This shiat he's pulled this week is clownshoes. If his team sucks that hard, then the Kansas AD needs to can his ass, because he's obviously a shiatty recruiter if this is the worst team in the history of Kansas ever, and a pretty crummy in-game coach and leader as well. This drama-manufacturing that he apparently likes so much is unprofessional, and I'd be pissed to see it coming from my team's coach.
 
2013-02-07 01:23:45 PM

Cagey B: Who, Elijah Johnson? The dude he humiliated in a press conference last week? Who happens to be playing out of position? Heck of a public defense there, Selfie.


Self on Elijah

 Every coach in America has publicly ripped on his team two games in a row in press conferences? Are you high? Here's a question, has Bill Self ever looked at himself at any point this season and said, "hmmm, maybe there's something about the schemes I'm running or the way I'm leading this team that's causing clearly talented athletes to play like shiat?"

If you play bad, historically bad, like they did last night, you should get ripped. And I'm sure he's actually the first person he blames if he's like any other talented and successful coach I've ever met.

This shiat he's pulled this week is clownshoes. If his team sucks that hard, then the Kansas AD needs to can his ass, because he's obviously a shiatty recruiter if this is the worst team in the history of Kansas ever, and a pretty crummy in-game coach and leader as well. This drama-manufacturing that he apparently likes so much is unprofessional, and I'd be pissed to see it coming from my team's coach.

He said, in the first half, that was the worst team they've fielded. It's hyperbole, and if you can't figure that out, you're an idiot. Ted Owens had far worse teams in the 70s and 80s, but the way they played is unacceptable for the University of Kansas.

And even if they were that bad, an AD firing a coach who's won as much as Self has at Kansas after one bad team is "clownshoes," and the fact that you think it's a viable option shows me that you obviously know fark-all about sports in general.
 
2013-02-07 01:28:10 PM

Cagey B:  This drama-manufacturing that he apparently likes so much is unprofessional, and I'd be pissed to see it coming from my team's coach.


Cagey B's favorite team:

www.floridapoliticalpress.com
 
2013-02-07 01:36:38 PM

theurge14: This is all part of KU's plan to crush the dreams and hopes of K-Stater's everywhere.

They do this all the time.  They play down to the competition and on occasion screw up like this, seemingly incomprehensibly.

But then watch this Monday as KU hangs a 30 point lead over K-State by the half.

:(


I know, it is so frustrating.  Something like 0-9 from 3 point land in the first half, but Monday will somehow be 10-11.  Unless as people are claiming there really is something wrong.  Somehow I expect this will be there yearly slip up before going the rest of the season without a loss and somehow the Wildcats will manage to win all their games except KU to be out of 1st by that 1 game.

\Delusional to think KState will win the rest of their games I know.
 
2013-02-07 01:40:19 PM
There is something wrong. You don't do what they did and bounce back.

I think Self has somewhat destroyed the psyche of this team.
 
2013-02-07 01:54:09 PM

mitchcumstein1: Who, Elijah Johnson? The dude he humiliated in a press conference last week? Who happens to be playing out of position? Heck of a public defense there, Selfie.

Self on Elijah


Yes, remarks that came after his press conference.

mitchcumstein1: If you play bad, historically bad, like they did last night, you should get ripped. And I'm sure he's actually the first person he blames if he's like any other talented and successful coach I've ever met.


Indeed, and Kansas has played two shiatty games in a row. Here's the difference, though. Most coaches seem to do this in a locker room. Does he blame himself at all? If he does, he certainly never says so. And he's not really shy about where he thinks blame should be apportioned.

mitchcumstein1: And even if they were that bad, an AD firing a coach who's won as much as Self has at Kansas after one bad team is "clownshoes," and the fact that you think it's a viable option shows me that you obviously know fark-all about sports in general.


Let's see. You have a team that's had one bad loss this year, to TCU. The other two losses it has are to Oklahoma State, a legitimately good team, and Michigan State. The reaction to Loss #2 to OSU is Bill Self coming out and trashing his point guard in the press. Because losing on the road to Oklahoma State in a season where you've beaten teams like Ohio State (on the road, even), Baylor and K-State is obviously THE WORST THING EVER.

Then, in the next game, you suffer an actual bad loss, the first of the season. You would think that perhaps Self would realize that his team doesn't seem to respond to the "drag your team out in front of the press and tell them how shiatty they are" thing as a motivational tool. So he does it again.

Yes, I realize his statement was hyperbole. And no, I don't care for yearly coach firings as a sound strategy. But this stuff that Bill Self is doing is typical of the overreaction a lot of fans of established programs have to a single loss, and if recent history is any indication, his strategy to deal with it doesn't seem to be working.

Mostly? This seems to be a case of immature histrionics in the face of the realization that Kansas is probably not the championship-caliber team its fans think they are this season, and are more like a #10-#15 this season.
 
2013-02-07 01:54:45 PM

Mateorocks: Cagey B:  This drama-manufacturing that he apparently likes so much is unprofessional, and I'd be pissed to see it coming from my team's coach.

Cagey B's favorite team:

[www.floridapoliticalpress.com image 400x343]


Hey man, the Generals are due.
 
2013-02-07 01:58:55 PM

Mart Laar's beard shaver: There is something wrong. You don't do what they did and bounce back.

I think Self has somewhat destroyed the psyche of this team.


I don't know what else he's supposed to do at this point. The team is off the rails, and only Withey/McLemore are keeping it from sinking. Even Travis Relaford was stinking it up last night. EJ might be playing out of position, but there's no excuse for giving away as many possessions as he does, either via bad shots or steals from the other team. Put him back in the two spot and get a guy from the bench to play PG- I'm convinced that it's that bad.
 
2013-02-07 02:04:17 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: Mart Laar's beard shaver: There is something wrong. You don't do what they did and bounce back.

I think Self has somewhat destroyed the psyche of this team.

I don't know what else he's supposed to do at this point. The team is off the rails, and only Withey/McLemore are keeping it from sinking. Even Travis Relaford was stinking it up last night. EJ might be playing out of position, but there's no excuse for giving away as many possessions as he does, either via bad shots or steals from the other team. Put him back in the two spot and get a guy from the bench to play PG- I'm convinced that it's that bad.


I endorse this.

What is EJ shooting? 15%? He's lost it, man. And the turnovers. Oh sweet baby Jesus, the turnovers. Sloppy play on both ends of the court. Crap fouls.

Self is one of the top five coaches in NCAA history. It ain't him that's the problem here.
 
2013-02-07 02:20:33 PM
I chalked up the OSU loss to the week-long lay-off as the players spent most that time hearing about how good they were. That's always trouble.

But I don't believe that the TCU loss is because Bill Self rode them too hard after the OSU game or called a player out. In fact, they played almost exactly the same way in both games: lethargic. When Kevin Young is the best player on your team, god love him, you're in trouble.

Self is scheduled to appear on Mike & Mike tomorrow morning, btw.
 
2013-02-07 02:40:01 PM

Cagey B: Yes, remarks that came after his press conference.


Point being? The fact that he said "EJ is my guy, we're going to win or lose with him," doesn't matter because he said it after a game?

Cagey B: Indeed, and Kansas has played two shiatty games in a row. Here's the difference, though. Most coaches seem to do this in a locker room. Does he blame himself at all? If he does, he certainly never says so. And he's not really shy about where he thinks blame should be apportioned.


I've seen K, Roy, Izzo, Calhoun, Bob Knight and a myriad of other coaches do the exact same thing. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Cagey B: Let's see. You have a team that's had one bad loss this year, to TCU. The other two losses it has are to Oklahoma State, a legitimately good team, and Michigan State. The reaction to Loss #2 to OSU is Bill Self coming out and trashing his point guard in the press. Because losing on the road to Oklahoma State in a season where you've beaten teams like Ohio State (on the road, even), Baylor and K-State is obviously THE WORST THING EVER.


It's not the loses, it's the effort and decision making. That's what he's pissed about.

Cagey B: Then, in the next game, you suffer an actual bad loss, the first of the season. You would think that perhaps Self would realize that his team doesn't seem to respond to the "drag your team out in front of the press and tell them how shiatty they are" thing as a motivational tool. So he does it again.

Yes, I realize his statement was hyperbole. And no, I don't care for yearly coach firings as a sound strategy. But this stuff that Bill Self is doing is typical of the overreaction a lot of fans of established programs have to a single loss, and if recent history is any indication, his strategy to deal with it doesn't seem to be working.


I'm going to go ahead and let Bill Self decide what is and isn't best for Kansas basketball. He's been fairly successful with a lot of different types of teams and players.

Mostly? This seems to be a case of immature histrionics in the face of the realization that Kansas is probably not the championship-caliber team its fans think they are this season, and are more like a #10-#15 this season.

The more you talk the less I think you watch basketball.
 
2013-02-07 02:40:42 PM
Well, they probably flushed any chance of getting a #1 seed with that loss, and Florida is happy to have people distracted from the fact that they just lost to a team that might finish .500 in a lousy SEC.
 
2013-02-07 02:43:01 PM

GQueue: Well, they probably flushed any chance of getting a #1 seed with that loss, and Florida is happy to have people distracted from the fact that they just lost to a team that might finish .500 in a lousy SEC.


Eh, they win the conference and the tournament and end with 3 or 4 loses total? I'd still say that's 1 seed capable.
 
2013-02-07 04:31:01 PM
Cagey B:
Let's see. You have a team that's had one bad loss this year, to TCU. The other two losses it has are to Oklahoma State, a legitimately good team, and Michigan State. The reaction to Loss #2 to OSU is Bill Self coming out and trashing his point guard in the press. Because losing on the road to Oklahoma State in a season where you've beaten teams like Ohio State (on the road, even), Baylor and K-State is obviously THE WORST THING EVER.

That game was AT Kansas.  First time we have won in Allen Fieldhouse since 1989.
 
2013-02-07 04:42:53 PM
The KU loss to TCU was Biblical. Not in a David vs. Goliath way, but it's like the Israelites and Moses vs. Egypt and the Pharaoh.
1. When in trouble, people were saying, "Oh, God" at the top of their lungs.
2. The KU basketball team was plagued with more problems than the Egyptians.
3. Unlike the Israelites however, the KU basketball team proved you can make bricks without straw. In fact, you can make bricks any time, any place, any where. and out of any thing.
And speaking of bricks, both teams made enough bricks to build the Great Wall of China and have enough leftover to repave the Yellow Brick Road in Oz for the next fifty years.

I was looking at the play by play on ESPN and KU lost at least 10 points on missed free throws and close to 20 points on missed layups and other point-blank shots.  Make half of them and odds are, they have a lead and most likely win.
Take the turnovers.  Empty possessions with no points scored due to turnovers.  Again, they lost God knows how many due to turnovers on offensive possessions.  Assume they score one point on each possession they turned over and they probably win.
Or even rebounds.  KU makes bad shots and have nobody to get the rebound.  Happened multiple times in the second half when they got the TCU lead down to single digits.  Could have made it a closer game or even won.
I don't know if substituting someone else for EJ will solve KU's guard problem.  Who do you put in?
 
2013-02-07 05:13:57 PM
TCU is 251st on the KenPom ratings even after last night.  They are the worst Big 6 conference team in the ratings (not by much as fellow Big 12 member Texas Tech is down in their vicinity).  They are also worse than everyone in the Mountain West, A10 and MoValley.  Hell, they rate below all but one of the Ivy League teams.
 
2013-02-07 07:47:29 PM
What's "wrong" with KU is the same thing that's been wrong with them all year:

- They have no PG. EJ wants to be Sherron Collins but he's not, he's a serviceable 2-guard, but he's got one of the best, if not the best, 2-guard in front of him in McLemore. Tharpe maybe could be the point but seems to be taking pointers on his play from EJ. Releford doesn't handle the ball well enough to play point. Having no PG play leads to a lot of turnovers and makes it that much harder for your team to score.

- They're good on D overall, but good, well-coached teams can figure out how to break them. Withey is too in love with the block, constantly puts himself out of position, leaves himself out of position to get a rebound. Releford is the real anchor of the D, but if he's in foul trouble/just not having a good game (like last night), their D falls apart.

- They're not deep. It's a 7 man rotation basically, and the Traylor/White/Wesley/Adams quartet isn't giving them anything. Whether it's because all those guys just don't have the skills yet, or Self is just being stubborn/dumb for not giving them minutes, who can say, but it's a problem.

I've said since early in the year this was a Sweet 16 team at best. They've played well this year and won a lot of tight games, but there are some real flaws on this team.
 
2013-02-07 08:29:54 PM

Cagey B: Bill Self has to be one of the biggest assholes in sports. It's one thing to chew someone out in a locker room, but doing it in a press conference (two games in a row now) is completely classless.


Nah, he's actually a really nice guy. I think if I was him I would of went Bobby Knight on the team after the game
 
2013-02-07 09:08:41 PM
and come monday, michigan should return to the #1 spot, duke(depending on tonight and sunday) will be 2nd and gonzaga would be #3.


with # indiana losing tonight to illinois.
 
2013-02-07 11:28:01 PM

What_Would_Jimi_Do: and come monday, michigan should return to the #1 spot, duke(depending on tonight and sunday) will be 2nd and gonzaga would be #3.


with # indiana losing tonight to illinois


I doubt Indiana drops below Gonzaga, or at least they shouldn't.  And Michigan has a roadie in Madison this weekend, which is no picnic.
 
2013-02-08 08:07:51 AM

eyeq360: The KU loss to TCU was Biblical. Not in a David vs. Goliath way, but it's like the Israelites and Moses vs. Egypt and the Pharaoh.
1. When in trouble, people were saying, "Oh, God" at the top of their lungs.
2. The KU basketball team was plagued with more problems than the Egyptians.



According to the power rankings, KU losing to TCU was the equivalent of a No. 1 seed in the tournament losing to a 60th.
 
2013-02-08 09:39:38 AM
I will say it confirmed something I've always down, deep down, as a lifelong Jayhawk fan.  When the day finally comes that a 16-seed beats a 1-seed in March, that 1-seed will, without a doubt, be Kansas.

It won't be this year (since we won't be a 1), and may not be for another 20. But when it happens, it will be KU.
 
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