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(SciFi Now)   Comics guru Mark Millar explains why a Justice League movie is "a good way to lose $200 million"   (scifinow.co.uk) divider line 31
    More: Interesting, Justice League, avengers assemble, WOLVERINE MOVIE, comics  
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6720 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Feb 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 07:12:28 PM  
7 votes:
How to do it right: the 6 year plan.

2013: Announce the DC Movie Universe at Comic Con. It started with Green Lantern and Man of Steel. Announce Wonder Woman: Justice of the Gods, basic post-Crisis origin story. Have the enemy be Circe.

2014: Release Wonder Woman. The end of it features a radio communication with the announcement of a purple man wreaking havoc with yellow light. Statics out. Corps logo. Green Lantern 2: Sinestro's Might.

2015: Green Lantern 2 released. Teaser at the end have a sonic boom with a red streak: The Flash: Speed Force. An established Flash, no origin story: Barry Allen with Bart as an adult civilian CSI partner who gains the same powers. The enemy is Zoom. Barry Allen dies in the film, leaving Bart as the new Flash to go forward. Kinda a Qui-gon/Obi-Wan thing.

2016: Release Flash. The end of it has a grizzled detective overlooking a crime scene that Bart is working at in his civilian disguse. Fade him to green. The Manhunter from Mars.

2017: Release Manhunter from Mars. Insert the villain of choice as a teaser for the JL movie. We have our team: Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter. Might I suggest Felix Faust, a badly misused magical villain who can go toe-to-toe with Superman if properly setup, but have no direct connection to any of the heroes above?

2018: release the film. Have Batman intro in the film to round out the team. Maybe reveal him to be the team's brains and financing, ala Oracle.

2019: New Batman Franchise. No origin story. Recently unused villains (that is, no Joker, Bane or Catwoman).
2013-02-06 05:45:14 PM  
7 votes:
Wow, Millar went through a dissertation when it could be explained in one simple phrase:

BECAUSE OF WARNER BROTHERS, STUPID!

Even that whole "these were characters that were created 75 years ago" explanation doesn't wash because of shows like "Batman: The Animated Series", "Justice League" and "Justice League Unlimited" that introduced DC's iconic heroes to a whole new generation and got major plaudits because of that.  Heck, "Young Justice" and "GL:TAS" have gotten some good buzz as well.  Not to mention some of the DC Direct-to-DVD features that have been decent/great.

No folks, the real problem is WB sticking their hands into something they don't show jack and shiat of.  Instead of letting the DC people guide the project so it can look the way it's supposed to, WB (afraid they'd lose money over a project they have little/no control over) go ahead and put their hands in it, leading to a clusterfark of movies that look more of a moneygrab than a "Hey, let's give the people what they want" feel that Marvel's been pulling off more often than not.
2013-02-06 05:33:44 PM  
6 votes:
Because their only good character is batman?
2013-02-07 12:02:14 AM  
3 votes:
I think it needs to be said again: The problem isn't the DC characters.  THE PROBLEM IS THAT WB EXECUTIVES HAVE THEIR HEADS UP THEIR ASSES WHEN IT COMES TO DC LIVE ACTION.

The way to make the DC characters work would be the following:

1. Hire Dini and Timm to be executive producers for the DC Cinematic Universe.

2. Make a rule: No other WB suit is allowed to meddle in the product. NONE. EVER. Just shut the f♥ck up, have a little faith, and leave Dini and Timm to it.

3. Make another rule: Directors and writers aren't allowed to incorporate their "vision" into the story by significantly changing the characters. Not costume. Not powers. Not names. Not details. Just use the fricking source material and stick close to it. Certainly some changes will be allowed, but you can't do shiatty things like making Superman able to erase memories with a kiss, or making Batman's costume look like a gay bondage outfit, or even making Wonder Woman an under-powered girly-girl who whines about boys and shopping and the size of her boobs. No changing costumes to be "realistic" unless it's really necessary, either. No new powers. No screwed-up origin revamping. We don't want a Batman whose parents were murdered by the Joker or a Manhunter who is actually a green human being who was stranded on Mars during a botched shuttle mission. Just give us what we've been reading, guys.

4. Give us super-powered villains that could actually stand up to these heroes. Give the villains COSTUMES. I don't want to see guys dressed like mobsters taking on the Justice League.

5. Cast people who will commit to several movies, and make sure they're the right age, height, build, etc. Nothing bothers me more than seeing Superman cast as a young 20-something, or Wonder Woman looking like a skinny model, or Manhunter looking like a fat doctor from M*A*S*H.  Here's an idea: Look at Alex Ross' artwork, and cast people that look like that.

6. MAKE IT FUN. I don't want a gloomy series of gritty superhero movies. This isn't the 1990s anymore, and the whole gloom-n-doom, dark hero thing is tired. Nolan's Batman even felt sort of BLAH by the third installment, because there was very little fun in Nolan's movies. We don't want super-serious, grim-faced, navel-gazing, soul-searching heroes. We comic book fans like a little wit with our action. We don't want it to be DUMB, like a Michael Bay movie. We don't want the humor to be overwhelming, like an Adam Sandler flick. We just want heroes who know the value of levity. A deadpan joke from Batman isn't out of character when timed properly. A witty comment from the Flash is REQUIRED every once in a while. Even the Manhunter should be able to grasp the value of irony and crack a joke sometimes.

7. Don't get too heavy on the score. We don't need it to be EPIC OH MAH GOD! symphonic frenzy. Show some of that aforementioned fun in the score. Make it light in places. Not hokey, but just-- Not a booming, dark, dread-filled score like every DC movie since Superman. And please, for the love of all that is good, NO DANNY ELFMAN. Find out if Bear is available.
2013-02-06 10:33:23 PM  
3 votes:

Felgraf: Because he can't be everywhere at once: Even if he tried to save everyone, always, forever, he would fail. In some ways, I see the writer job as, in some ways, a way to keep him from going nuts.


We're kind of off into a tangent about the nature of morality, but on some level, a character that can fly at some sizable fraction of light speed and has senses that amount of local omniscience is through inaction allowing a tremendous amount of suffering and evil to take place while he's off making puppy dog eyes with Lois or Lana or Luna or whomever. Clearly, he's drawing a line someplace and saying that he's not going to rip off his shirt for anything less than some presumed threshold of suffering, but everything up to that point is A-OK so long as he can shoot Kryptonian Man-Jam all up in our alliteratively named ladies. And he's the one who makes the judgment call, absent any factors besides what Ma and Pa Kent done taught him.

So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.
2013-02-06 05:24:39 PM  
3 votes:
Because they've put no real effort into actually building towards a shared universe and are just going to make some awkward, exposition heavy inconsistent mess?
2013-02-07 02:59:36 AM  
2 votes:

CigaretteSmokingMan: Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.


Shakespeare was the comic books of his day.
2013-02-06 08:22:04 PM  
2 votes:

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.

No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.


I always saw this as the hook for the Batman Superman relationship... "If I had your powers I could eliminate all organized crime on the East Coast in a week -- and you spend your time writing a syndicated column"
2013-02-06 07:08:09 PM  
2 votes:

Supes: Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman.

PonceAlyosha: Nail, head.


covers.cbrd.info
2013-02-06 05:40:31 PM  
2 votes:
DC has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

DC needs to accept that they arent in competition with Marvel, they are so far behind they just need to get actually market to an audience who is really unsure who exists in the DC universe, and more importantly why people exist outside of batman and superman.
2013-02-06 05:36:21 PM  
2 votes:
How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?
2013-02-06 05:22:39 PM  
2 votes:
Uh, because I wont be better than this  www.supermanhomepage.com

/hot as a Binary Fusion Generator
2013-02-07 01:50:50 PM  
1 votes:

Supes: Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance.


I'm willing to acknowledge that it's tricky to write good Superman stories (but I'll also argue that when they do, those are among the very best stories), but it seems odd that you want to swap him out with one of the few characters that are even more level-unbalanced than Superman.

Instead of a super strong, flying brick with super senses and laser eyes, you get a super strong, flying brick with super senses, shape shifting and vast mental powers. About the only thing that offsets this is that he  might be vulnerable to fire (although, these days, that's more of a psychological limitation than an actual weakness).

If you really want a replacement brick, how about Big Barda?
2013-02-07 10:42:33 AM  
1 votes:

mechgreg: likefunbutnot: So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.

I would love it if a superman movie dealt with some more serious shiat like that. I mean it seems that superman from what I have read or seen is either dealing with local problems (bank robbers, or other criminals) or cosmic problems (Zod, or other guys like that who could destroy the earth) but what about the in between problems. I mean if super man existed in our world Al Queda exist, or  would superman have found them and brought them all to justice before 9/11 happened? What about natural disasters, say something like the Japan earthquake/Tsunami from a few years ago, would superman have stopped a bunch of the damage. And if not would people be pissed off about it.

And then lets take it a step further. If superman was around would there be any dictators or warlords controlling countries? What would North Korea look like? And if he takes down North Korea, what about somewhere like Cuba. And if he can actually control governments how does he decide which ones? Does he fix syria? What about a country that has the death penalty or mandatory military service, or even something simple like no government funded health care. Would he force those countries to change?


I think the Authority dealt with that in their comic. They decided going after giant cosmic threats was a bit silly if they just let ordinary dictators do whatever they wanted, so they stopped the dictators too. The rest of the world's nations got a bit upset that their sovereignty was being challenged so they tried to stop the Authority. Eventually they just ended up taking over the entire world to try and solve its problems. The Elite from 'Superman vs the Elite' were based on them, and it's a pretty good read, if a bit 90's.
2013-02-07 07:54:16 AM  
1 votes:
Because comic book movies and fans seem to only be able to handle origin stories and that's a lot of OMG I AM A DEEP DARK ANTIHERO SOOOO ANGUISHED to cram into one movie
2013-02-07 03:27:08 AM  
1 votes:

Confabulat: CigaretteSmokingMan: Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.

Shakespeare was the comic books of his day.


Man, Shakespeare was the graphic novels of his day. Get it right.
2013-02-06 10:43:45 PM  
1 votes:

likefunbutnot: That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.


That why we would have been better off with Zod and his crew (I'm talking about the movie here, I don't read Superman). After they took over the White House, they didn't really bother anybody. They'd probably fly around the world killing off the psycho tyrants we want to but can't and they wouldn't put up with any terrorism shiat.

/hail Zod
2013-02-06 10:14:05 PM  
1 votes:
ianthetexan: Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah). So before he even gets a chance to say how unrelatable he thinks DC's characters are to audiences, we have to remember that Nolan Batman worked and worked well because of its characters, while he shiat the bed on two franchises noted for the strength and relatability of theirs.

Millar JUST got hired on last year.  He had nothing to do with X-Men and Fantastic Four.  Neither of which should be called faillures as Origins was a success and is getting a sequel this year, 3 was the biggest movie of the franchise, and First Class was successful and a great movie besides, and it's sequel comes out next year.   

FF did well enough to get a sequel, and it did well enough to get rebooted.

You can lay the mishmash of Marvel movies at Fox at the feet of Tom Rothman, former head of Fox who was on record as hating superhero movies.  Millar's sole contribution to film was Kick-Ass, which also is getting a sequel this year.  Millar is learning from Rothman and DC's mistakes here and will have success, he knows the product.
2013-02-06 08:44:41 PM  
1 votes:
I know how to make a good DC Justice League movie/series of movies.

Kidnap Dini, lock him in a room, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

There. Done.
2013-02-06 08:10:12 PM  
1 votes:

imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.


No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.
2013-02-06 07:41:40 PM  
1 votes:

imgod2u: Iron Man is the Batman of Marvel and really only interesting because of Robert Downy Jr.


You can tell great stories with Steve Rogers or Bruce Banner. I think Ang Lee was trying to get there and in another context he might have, but we really wanted "The Incredible Hulk" and not a complex examination of the dualistic nature of human psyche.

I think Toby McGuire did a great turn as Peter Parker, at least in the first two movies. And Chiklis and Evans actually worked very well for their roles in the FF.

But that's the thing. For the Marvel characters, the characters, outside of their costumes, have value and consequence. Maybe not TONS, but certainly more than the interchangeable white guys over at DC.
2013-02-06 07:35:20 PM  
1 votes:

meanmutton: Green Lantern has all the stupidly over powered problems of Superman without any of the cool dual identity stuff.


If they could pull off the Emerald Twilight storyline, it'd be outstanding. Though granted that'd require a bit of setup first.

Oh, and if they make a Justice League movie, I'd support basing it on The New Frontier. Though Tower of Babel could also be pretty fun.
2013-02-06 06:49:28 PM  
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: BafflerMeal: ...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...

It's like they strive to fail.
Hell, I'm still pissed Batman: The Brave and the Bold ended mid-season. You could tell that show was a labor of love by people who knew DC inside and out. How about you let them make a Justice League movie?


Brave and the Bold got 65 episodes.  That's a decent run for a cartoon.

Young Justice being cancelled really pisses me off, though.  They were really just getting started.
2013-02-06 06:46:10 PM  
1 votes:
The Justice League movie isn't a good idea, but not for Millar's inane reasoning that the characters are "too old".  It's because there's no soul behind the idea.  They're not doing it because they have a story to tell, or even because they think it'd be really cool; they're doing it because The Avengers made money.  Period.

If Warner wanted to make great superhero movies that tied into a connected universe for the sake of making great movies, they'd dig up Bruce Timm and give him the same kind of "guru" role that Marvel Studios gave Joss Whedon.  But all they care about is cashing in, so they're not going to do that.
2013-02-06 06:34:18 PM  
1 votes:
"Comics guru Mark Millar".

Well this is rather embarrassing; it appear I have somehow stepped into an alternative universe.
2013-02-06 06:30:56 PM  
1 votes:

thornhill: Mugato: How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?

Flash, but it needs to be done slightly tongue-in-cheek.


My friend and I thought this one out. Take a 15 minute movie and then play it out in super slow mo to stretch to two hours so it's like living in Flash's world.
2013-02-06 06:12:58 PM  
1 votes:
Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah). So before he even gets a chance to say how unrelatable he thinks DC's characters are to audiences, we have to remember that Nolan Batman worked and worked well because of its characters, while he shiat the bed on two franchises noted for the strength and relatability of theirs.

The direct relationship of Marvel comics to live action movies is amazing, they do a fairly good job and they make fun and watchable cinema. The direct relationship of DC comics to animated films is amazing. Just about everything the DCAU puts out is more watchable than anything Marvel has put out into the animated realm.

Justice League was a great TV show that was able to pull of actual drama and fun while having large-scale super battles.
X-Men: Evolution was on television at some point. I watched it and honestly couldn't tell you a single thing that happened.
The Avengers Animated movie was choppy and awkward.

Even beyond that, Justice League: Doom, Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, and Green Lantern: Emerald Knights were all better than any animated picture that Marvel has managed to date. It's a shame that writing talent won't be put to work on a live-action JLA movie.
2013-02-06 06:06:28 PM  
1 votes:

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


This.
2013-02-06 05:58:14 PM  
1 votes:
A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.
2013-02-06 05:49:47 PM  
1 votes:

BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...


RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.
2013-02-06 05:43:59 PM  
1 votes:

farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.


...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...
 
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