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(SciFi Now)   Comics guru Mark Millar explains why a Justice League movie is "a good way to lose $200 million"   (scifinow.co.uk) divider line 129
    More: Interesting, Justice League, avengers assemble, WOLVERINE MOVIE, comics  
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6716 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Feb 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 05:08:52 PM  
Reasons fail without:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-06 05:22:39 PM  
Uh, because I wont be better than this  www.supermanhomepage.com

/hot as a Binary Fusion Generator
 
2013-02-06 05:24:39 PM  
Because they've put no real effort into actually building towards a shared universe and are just going to make some awkward, exposition heavy inconsistent mess?
 
2013-02-06 05:33:44 PM  
Because their only good character is batman?
 
2013-02-06 05:36:21 PM  
How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?
 
2013-02-06 05:40:31 PM  
DC has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

DC needs to accept that they arent in competition with Marvel, they are so far behind they just need to get actually market to an audience who is really unsure who exists in the DC universe, and more importantly why people exist outside of batman and superman.
 
2013-02-06 05:41:36 PM  
Because they don't have RDJr?
 
2013-02-06 05:43:59 PM  

farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.


...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...
 
2013-02-06 05:44:18 PM  

fawlty: Because they don't have RDJr?


I dont see why they couldnt have him, wasnt Hal Jordan also Wade Wilson?
 
2013-02-06 05:45:14 PM  
Wow, Millar went through a dissertation when it could be explained in one simple phrase:

BECAUSE OF WARNER BROTHERS, STUPID!

Even that whole "these were characters that were created 75 years ago" explanation doesn't wash because of shows like "Batman: The Animated Series", "Justice League" and "Justice League Unlimited" that introduced DC's iconic heroes to a whole new generation and got major plaudits because of that.  Heck, "Young Justice" and "GL:TAS" have gotten some good buzz as well.  Not to mention some of the DC Direct-to-DVD features that have been decent/great.

No folks, the real problem is WB sticking their hands into something they don't show jack and shiat of.  Instead of letting the DC people guide the project so it can look the way it's supposed to, WB (afraid they'd lose money over a project they have little/no control over) go ahead and put their hands in it, leading to a clusterfark of movies that look more of a moneygrab than a "Hey, let's give the people what they want" feel that Marvel's been pulling off more often than not.
 
2013-02-06 05:49:47 PM  

BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...


RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.
 
2013-02-06 05:53:28 PM  

Mugato: How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?


Flash, but it needs to be done slightly tongue-in-cheek.
 
2013-02-06 05:58:14 PM  
A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.
 
2013-02-06 06:05:51 PM  

BafflerMeal: ...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...


It's like they strive to fail.
Hell, I'm still pissed Batman: The Brave and the Bold ended mid-season. You could tell that show was a labor of love by people who knew DC inside and out. How about you let them make a Justice League movie?
 
2013-02-06 06:06:28 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


This.
 
2013-02-06 06:09:08 PM  

BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...


LALALALALAAICAN'THEARYOU


damnitsomuch.
 
2013-02-06 06:12:09 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....
 
2013-02-06 06:12:58 PM  
Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah). So before he even gets a chance to say how unrelatable he thinks DC's characters are to audiences, we have to remember that Nolan Batman worked and worked well because of its characters, while he shiat the bed on two franchises noted for the strength and relatability of theirs.

The direct relationship of Marvel comics to live action movies is amazing, they do a fairly good job and they make fun and watchable cinema. The direct relationship of DC comics to animated films is amazing. Just about everything the DCAU puts out is more watchable than anything Marvel has put out into the animated realm.

Justice League was a great TV show that was able to pull of actual drama and fun while having large-scale super battles.
X-Men: Evolution was on television at some point. I watched it and honestly couldn't tell you a single thing that happened.
The Avengers Animated movie was choppy and awkward.

Even beyond that, Justice League: Doom, Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, and Green Lantern: Emerald Knights were all better than any animated picture that Marvel has managed to date. It's a shame that writing talent won't be put to work on a live-action JLA movie.
 
2013-02-06 06:17:40 PM  

PonceAlyosha: BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...

RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.


Don't you know, you can't have anything resembling intelligent writing and animation at the same time?  Same thing is happening to Tron Legacy.  Happened to Avengers: Earth's Greatest Heroes as well.
 
2013-02-06 06:24:58 PM  
The two universes they've (recently) portrayed have been pretty much the polar opposite of each other. Chris Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy - gritty, realistic, grounded in reality; and the Green Lantern/Superman universes - fantastical,and otherworldly. You try to mix them, and you're going to get an unintentionally funny mess. Reboot Batman to fit in, so quickly after the TDK trilogy, and you're gonna confuse the general movie going public. Try to shoehorn, say, Joseph Gordon-Levitt to try to tie things together and it's gonna be stupid.

The whole thing smacks of a desperate "me too" move by Warner Brothers. It probably won't tank, but it won't reach Avengers level of performance..
 
2013-02-06 06:25:26 PM  
I was just about ready to post a rant about how Millar can go fark himself for forcing us to put up with Lana Lang for eight farking seasons until I remembered that it was a different Millar. So never mind.

/god damn was she obnoxious
 
2013-02-06 06:27:18 PM  

PonceAlyosha: BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...

RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.


they aren't going away immediately. The seasons are being allowed to finish, so we will get conclusions to GL and YJ.
 
2013-02-06 06:28:20 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Because they've put no real effort into actually building towards a shared universe and are just going to make some awkward, exposition heavy inconsistent mess?


Nope.

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


Yep.

That's one of the important differences between the Marvel and DC universes. The Marvel characters' appeal lies in their origins, their trials and flaws.  DC's fun comes from epic larger than life heroes.  They are archetypes.  I can't find where I first saw it, but there was an article (or maybe just a forum post) that compared it to the difference between the Greek myths of the Gods on Olympus consorting among themselves vs the stories of the Gods mingling with mortals.
 
2013-02-06 06:30:56 PM  

thornhill: Mugato: How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?

Flash, but it needs to be done slightly tongue-in-cheek.


My friend and I thought this one out. Take a 15 minute movie and then play it out in super slow mo to stretch to two hours so it's like living in Flash's world.
 
2013-02-06 06:31:47 PM  

Supes: Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.

Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....


Superman in that line up does not upset the balance any more then Wonder Woman or Green Lantern. He is the biggest hammer you have, but he is still only one guy. The point of the Justice League is that there is some earth shattering bad guy or bad guys with a huge cast of mooks. That is the reason the team up is needed, so sure Superman outstrips everybody else, but even he can be overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
 
2013-02-06 06:34:18 PM  
"Comics guru Mark Millar".

Well this is rather embarrassing; it appear I have somehow stepped into an alternative universe.
 
2013-02-06 06:46:10 PM  
The Justice League movie isn't a good idea, but not for Millar's inane reasoning that the characters are "too old".  It's because there's no soul behind the idea.  They're not doing it because they have a story to tell, or even because they think it'd be really cool; they're doing it because The Avengers made money.  Period.

If Warner wanted to make great superhero movies that tied into a connected universe for the sake of making great movies, they'd dig up Bruce Timm and give him the same kind of "guru" role that Marvel Studios gave Joss Whedon.  But all they care about is cashing in, so they're not going to do that.
 
2013-02-06 06:49:28 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: BafflerMeal: ...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...

It's like they strive to fail.
Hell, I'm still pissed Batman: The Brave and the Bold ended mid-season. You could tell that show was a labor of love by people who knew DC inside and out. How about you let them make a Justice League movie?


Brave and the Bold got 65 episodes.  That's a decent run for a cartoon.

Young Justice being cancelled really pisses me off, though.  They were really just getting started.
 
2013-02-06 06:56:11 PM  
cdn.mos.totalfilm.com

It's about time these guys got their own movie.  Super Fabio and the Star-Spangled Adulterer are my favorites!
 
2013-02-06 07:01:53 PM  
I just want to drive home how comically stupid Millar's reasoning is:

Captain America: created in 1941
Iron Man: created in 1963
Thor:  created in, roughly, the seventh farking century
The Hulk: created in 1962
Hawkeye: created in 1964
Black Widow: created in 1962
Nick Fury: created in 1963
 
2013-02-06 07:04:46 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Brave and the Bold got 65 episodes. That's a decent run for a cartoon.

Young Justice being cancelled really pisses me off, though. They were really just getting started.


Eh, I was mad the last season wasn't a full season, while it seemed like they still had a lot of ideas now that they were using more A-listers like Superman and Wonderwoman. It was a good run with an abrupt stop.

And like I said, it's like they want to fail.
 
2013-02-06 07:05:39 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Thor: created in, roughly, the seventh farking century


Not really. Kirby's stories have the same relationship to the Eddas and the rest of the Norse myth cycles that West Side Story has to the Tristan and Isolde.

HeartBurnKid: The Justice League movie isn't a good idea, but not for Millar's inane reasoning that the characters are "too old". It's because there's no soul behind the idea. They're not doing it because they have a story to tell, or even because they think it'd be really cool; they're doing it because The Avengers made money. Period.


Nail, head.
 
2013-02-06 07:08:09 PM  

Supes: Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman.

PonceAlyosha: Nail, head.


covers.cbrd.info
 
2013-02-06 07:11:54 PM  

PonceAlyosha: HeartBurnKid: Thor: created in, roughly, the seventh farking century

Not really. Kirby's stories have the same relationship to the Eddas and the rest of the Norse myth cycles that West Side Story has to the Tristan and Isolde.


And the movie's depiction has roughly that much in common with Kirby's, disregarding in-jokes like Thor masquerading as Donald Blake.  That's my point; these characters have been imagined and reimagined over and over since their inception, keeping their iconic themes while bringing them more in line with modern sensibilities.  Assigning a level of relevance to them based solely on the date when the character first appeared is ludicrous.
 
2013-02-06 07:12:28 PM  
How to do it right: the 6 year plan.

2013: Announce the DC Movie Universe at Comic Con. It started with Green Lantern and Man of Steel. Announce Wonder Woman: Justice of the Gods, basic post-Crisis origin story. Have the enemy be Circe.

2014: Release Wonder Woman. The end of it features a radio communication with the announcement of a purple man wreaking havoc with yellow light. Statics out. Corps logo. Green Lantern 2: Sinestro's Might.

2015: Green Lantern 2 released. Teaser at the end have a sonic boom with a red streak: The Flash: Speed Force. An established Flash, no origin story: Barry Allen with Bart as an adult civilian CSI partner who gains the same powers. The enemy is Zoom. Barry Allen dies in the film, leaving Bart as the new Flash to go forward. Kinda a Qui-gon/Obi-Wan thing.

2016: Release Flash. The end of it has a grizzled detective overlooking a crime scene that Bart is working at in his civilian disguse. Fade him to green. The Manhunter from Mars.

2017: Release Manhunter from Mars. Insert the villain of choice as a teaser for the JL movie. We have our team: Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter. Might I suggest Felix Faust, a badly misused magical villain who can go toe-to-toe with Superman if properly setup, but have no direct connection to any of the heroes above?

2018: release the film. Have Batman intro in the film to round out the team. Maybe reveal him to be the team's brains and financing, ala Oracle.

2019: New Batman Franchise. No origin story. Recently unused villains (that is, no Joker, Bane or Catwoman).
 
2013-02-06 07:13:00 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


Wow, are you a WB executive? Because that sounds AWFUL. It sounds exactly like what an exec would pitch. "Just put 'em all up there, add some explosions, and BAM billion dollars Avengers YAY"

The Avengers "thing" started with RDJ establishing the character of Iron Man (I suppose you could say it was the Hulk remake, but I digress.) The reason that the whole universe was able to come together as it did was they spent the time, effort, and money to foster fan connections to the characters, and make them very distinguishable from each other. Iron Man (and Tony Stark) became a person you wanted to see win. Captain America's resolve for duty and his sense of honor were well done, in a comic-book movie kind of way. Thor was absolutely over the top in visuals, establishing the otherworldlyness of the Asgardians, and how they were fish-out-of-water, but still dominant in their own way, which lent credence to Loki in the Avengers. We got enough snippets of Widow and Hawkeye throughout that they didn't need much more introduction, moreso because they're regular people. We didn't need to see them throwing tanks around or overthrowing a regime because we saw that what they do is on a much smaller scale, personal level.

The JLA movie will fail, not because of script or characterization or budgetary issues, but because if you want a well-crafted, relatable set of heroes with deep backgrounds and fan connections, you have to spend years building it, not throwing it together in a single movie with little to no preamble, or just grafting existing movies into a poorly-constructed framework.
 
2013-02-06 07:14:30 PM  

saintstryfe: How to do it right: the 6 year plan.


Hm. You seem to have beaten me to it in a much more interesting way.
 
2013-02-06 07:20:26 PM  

thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?


Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.
 
2013-02-06 07:22:19 PM  

Supes: Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.

Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....


Green Lantern has all the stupidly over powered problems of Superman without any of the cool dual identity stuff.
 
2013-02-06 07:23:57 PM  

meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.


Watch this. Then say that again.
 
2013-02-06 07:25:11 PM  
 
2013-02-06 07:30:04 PM  

Mugato: How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?


I don't know that Captain America, bow-and-arrow dude, 3D-shot-of-my-ass-chick or Hulk are really all that interesting either. Iron Man is the Batman of Marvel and really only interesting because of Robert Downy Jr.
 
2013-02-06 07:32:30 PM  
I think he's right about the characters.
Batman is the only one of the bunch that's not really interchangeable with the others.

DC also owns Shazam nee Captain Marvel, who is my favorite DC character, but he'll always be a fourth stringer because of internal prejudices and legal wrangling that stem from the characters origin a more-popular-than-Superman rival from another comic company (Fawcett) that DC acquired decades later.
 
2013-02-06 07:35:01 PM  
Also:
art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-02-06 07:35:20 PM  

meanmutton: Green Lantern has all the stupidly over powered problems of Superman without any of the cool dual identity stuff.


If they could pull off the Emerald Twilight storyline, it'd be outstanding. Though granted that'd require a bit of setup first.

Oh, and if they make a Justice League movie, I'd support basing it on The New Frontier. Though Tower of Babel could also be pretty fun.
 
2013-02-06 07:35:31 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


He was the heart of the Justice League. For a guy with such lame archenemies, they really do a great job in that episode. I especially like him talking gently to the crazy guy. "You're wearing the suit again."
 
2013-02-06 07:41:40 PM  

imgod2u: Iron Man is the Batman of Marvel and really only interesting because of Robert Downy Jr.


You can tell great stories with Steve Rogers or Bruce Banner. I think Ang Lee was trying to get there and in another context he might have, but we really wanted "The Incredible Hulk" and not a complex examination of the dualistic nature of human psyche.

I think Toby McGuire did a great turn as Peter Parker, at least in the first two movies. And Chiklis and Evans actually worked very well for their roles in the FF.

But that's the thing. For the Marvel characters, the characters, outside of their costumes, have value and consequence. Maybe not TONS, but certainly more than the interchangeable white guys over at DC.
 
2013-02-06 07:46:06 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


Man, that same dude has been voicing Batman for what must be 25 years now.  He's still doing the DC Animated projects, he did the arkham games, he did the old 90's batman cartoons, and I'm sure there twice as much that I've forgotten.  I'm not complaining, he's great for it, I'm just impressed that so many different projects get him involved.
 
2013-02-06 07:47:44 PM  

thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?


If that's the high water mark, this is a project that can be drowned in a wet pavement.
 
2013-02-06 07:48:41 PM  
Mark, I read Unfunnies. After that I will never take you seriously again. Now go back to filling in your Kick-Ass 3 word balloons with pointless profanity or whatever it is you're doing now.
 
2013-02-06 07:55:41 PM  

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: Iron Man is the Batman of Marvel and really only interesting because of Robert Downy Jr.

You can tell great stories with Steve Rogers or Bruce Banner. I think Ang Lee was trying to get there and in another context he might have, but we really wanted "The Incredible Hulk" and not a complex examination of the dualistic nature of human psyche.

I think Toby McGuire did a great turn as Peter Parker, at least in the first two movies. And Chiklis and Evans actually worked very well for their roles in the FF.

But that's the thing. For the Marvel characters, the characters, outside of their costumes, have value and consequence. Maybe not TONS, but certainly more than the interchangeable white guys over at DC.


You really could say the same about Superman. I'll grant you Green Lantern and Flash are all but forgettable. But again, it's about what the movie does with them, not anything inherent in the character itself. Captain America has always been boring.
 
2013-02-06 07:58:51 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.
 
2013-02-06 08:00:41 PM  

meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.


C'mon... nothing?  Not even for the scene with Prankster in the bar?  "James, you're wearing the suit again"?  Not even that?
 
2013-02-06 08:01:12 PM  
Crisis on two Earths was good.
 
2013-02-06 08:04:34 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.

C'mon... nothing?  Not even for the scene with Prankster in the bar?  "James, you're wearing the suit again"?  Not even that?


Ok, I will admit, a moment there, sure.
 
2013-02-06 08:05:28 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


Love that episode.  Seeing Batman and Orion completely out of their element was priceless.
 
2013-02-06 08:07:39 PM  

HeartBurnKid: They're not doing it because they have a story to tell, or even because they think it'd be really cool; they're doing it because The Avengers made money. Period.


It is pretty blatant and I think people are going to see through it.


saintstryfe: 2019: New Batman Franchise. No origin story. Recently unused villains (that is, no Joker, Bane or Catwoman).


Can they finally get Two-Face right? He's the worse handled comic book villain since Luthor.
 
2013-02-06 08:09:45 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


THANK YOU!
 
2013-02-06 08:10:12 PM  

imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.


No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.
 
2013-02-06 08:17:00 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.

C'mon... nothing?  Not even for the scene with Prankster in the bar?  "James, you're wearing the suit again"?  Not even that?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDF1ULMin6s Here's a bunch of clips of funny Justice League moments, mostly Flash. "Did you wash your hands?" "NO, because I'm Evul!"

Eh, not every character appeals to everyone, but Justice League made me reconsider the character that I had thought was "the guy whose power is to run about as fast as Superman." It's nice to see a hero appreciated in his hometown, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVpsbec0R0s "I had dinner with two women at the same time. 'Cuz I'm a stud."

Justice League aways makes me think of my oft repeated Stan Lee quote: "Every character is SOMEBODY'S favorite." Write them that way.
 
2013-02-06 08:17:17 PM  

HeartBurnKid: PonceAlyosha: HeartBurnKid: Thor: created in, roughly, the seventh farking century

Not really. Kirby's stories have the same relationship to the Eddas and the rest of the Norse myth cycles that West Side Story has to the Tristan and Isolde.

And the movie's depiction has roughly that much in common with Kirby's, disregarding in-jokes like Thor masquerading as Donald Blake.  That's my point; these characters have been imagined and reimagined over and over since their inception, keeping their iconic themes while bringing them more in line with modern sensibilities.  Assigning a level of relevance to them based solely on the date when the character first appeared is ludicrous.


SOMUCHTHIS!
 
2013-02-06 08:22:04 PM  

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.

No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.


I always saw this as the hook for the Batman Superman relationship... "If I had your powers I could eliminate all organized crime on the East Coast in a week -- and you spend your time writing a syndicated column"
 
2013-02-06 08:34:03 PM  

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.

No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.


That sounds like your own limitation; not the character's.
 
2013-02-06 08:34:29 PM  

OhioKnight: I always saw this as the hook for the Batman Superman relationship... "If I had your powers I could eliminate all organized crime on the East Coast in a week -- and you spend your time writing a syndicated column"


Heh. Is that an actual quote? Because it could be.

I always thought the same thing. WTF is he doing dicking around a newspaper office? Like Jor'el told him, "With great power comes great responsibility".

/call off the dogs comic book nerds, that was a joke
 
2013-02-06 08:44:41 PM  
I know how to make a good DC Justice League movie/series of movies.

Kidnap Dini, lock him in a room, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

There. Done.
 
2013-02-06 08:47:51 PM  

Mugato: OhioKnight: I always saw this as the hook for the Batman Superman relationship... "If I had your powers I could eliminate all organized crime on the East Coast in a week -- and you spend your time writing a syndicated column"

Heh. Is that an actual quote? Because it could be.

I always thought the same thing. WTF is he doing dicking around a newspaper office? Like Jor'el told him, "With great power comes great responsibility".

/call off the dogs comic book nerds, that was a joke


moesucks.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-06 09:09:02 PM  

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


So much THIS.

DC has excellent material to work with... so why don't they?
 
2013-02-06 09:15:55 PM  

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.

No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.


Because he can't be everywhere at once: Even if he tried to save everyone, always, forever, he would fail. In some ways, I see the writer job as, in some ways, a way to keep him from going nuts.

When you constantly put pressure on a super-man like superhero, demand that he be like a god and solve all the problems that you yourselves (as a species) have created, well, uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredeemable

Bad things can happen.
 
2013-02-06 09:25:57 PM  
Great... Because of this thread I just spent an hour on youtube watching highlight clips from Justice League episodes. Thanks.
 
2013-02-06 09:54:17 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Because they've put no real effort into actually building towards a shared universe and are just going to make some awkward, exposition heavy inconsistent mess?


farbekrieg: DC has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

DC needs to accept that they arent in competition with Marvel, they are so far behind they just need to get actually market to an audience who is really unsure who exists in the DC universe, and more importantly why people exist outside of batman and superman.


I'm not into comics, so I'm mildly uninformed but you guys are hitting on what I was already thinking.  DC sucks because the characters are overpowered and unbalanced in way that make a shared universe stupid. Marvel characters are a bit more balanced, so they perform well in groups, but the universe is so oversaturated that it's absurd to imagine world where the Avengers and the X-Men all exist and yet there are still unpowered people in the world living normal lives... it just becomes unbelieveable.

So, why do DC characters have to be in a shared universe? Why do Batman and Superman have to cross paths? They're capable of telling compelling stories withing mashing things together, and it's a lot easier to believe in a world where life is normal except for Superman, than to believe in a world with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern without descending into uncivilized chaos.

/fark Aquaman.
 
2013-02-06 10:14:05 PM  
ianthetexan: Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah). So before he even gets a chance to say how unrelatable he thinks DC's characters are to audiences, we have to remember that Nolan Batman worked and worked well because of its characters, while he shiat the bed on two franchises noted for the strength and relatability of theirs.

Millar JUST got hired on last year.  He had nothing to do with X-Men and Fantastic Four.  Neither of which should be called faillures as Origins was a success and is getting a sequel this year, 3 was the biggest movie of the franchise, and First Class was successful and a great movie besides, and it's sequel comes out next year.   

FF did well enough to get a sequel, and it did well enough to get rebooted.

You can lay the mishmash of Marvel movies at Fox at the feet of Tom Rothman, former head of Fox who was on record as hating superhero movies.  Millar's sole contribution to film was Kick-Ass, which also is getting a sequel this year.  Millar is learning from Rothman and DC's mistakes here and will have success, he knows the product.
 
2013-02-06 10:19:51 PM  

PonceAlyosha: RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.


SPOILERS MOTHERfarkER!!!
 
2013-02-06 10:21:10 PM  
See, I don't undrstand why they just can't do a live-action version of the a set of Justice League episodes. There are so many great ones.
Why is this a problem for studios to understand?
Instead, you are going to get some big name director or someone wanting to put "their stamp" on it.
 
2013-02-06 10:33:21 PM  

farbekrieg: the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show


That's another thing. The Green Lantern and Wonder Woman were recent flops, I don't think people will be in the mood for another Batman reboot anytime soon, especially a more comic book-y Batman that they would need to fit in all the supernatural shiat in JLA and Aquaman is a punchline. If Superman doesn't kick everyone's ass next year, they're not going to have any characters anyone wants to see. Maybe The Flash.
 
2013-02-06 10:33:23 PM  

Felgraf: Because he can't be everywhere at once: Even if he tried to save everyone, always, forever, he would fail. In some ways, I see the writer job as, in some ways, a way to keep him from going nuts.


We're kind of off into a tangent about the nature of morality, but on some level, a character that can fly at some sizable fraction of light speed and has senses that amount of local omniscience is through inaction allowing a tremendous amount of suffering and evil to take place while he's off making puppy dog eyes with Lois or Lana or Luna or whomever. Clearly, he's drawing a line someplace and saying that he's not going to rip off his shirt for anything less than some presumed threshold of suffering, but everything up to that point is A-OK so long as he can shoot Kryptonian Man-Jam all up in our alliteratively named ladies. And he's the one who makes the judgment call, absent any factors besides what Ma and Pa Kent done taught him.

So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.
 
2013-02-06 10:43:45 PM  

likefunbutnot: That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.


That why we would have been better off with Zod and his crew (I'm talking about the movie here, I don't read Superman). After they took over the White House, they didn't really bother anybody. They'd probably fly around the world killing off the psycho tyrants we want to but can't and they wouldn't put up with any terrorism shiat.

/hail Zod
 
2013-02-06 11:21:34 PM  
Whatever movie they make, it needs Zander in at least a cameo role.
 
2013-02-06 11:37:34 PM  
Where Booster Gold movie, where?
 
2013-02-06 11:37:46 PM  
Starro (lots of nameless aliens)/Mongul (Loki). Just rip off the Avengers and rake in the cash. Superman (Hulk), Batman (Iron Man), Wonder Woman (Captain America), Green Lantern (Hawkeye) and Flash (Black Widow) are brought together by a government entity (SHEILD) when the baby Starros flood Metropolis (New York). Darkseid (Thanos) is using it as an advance for an invasion to test the forces. Mongul controls the Starro (I know, not in the comics). The heroes react poorly to being slapped together until the common enemy forces them to team up for real. Big fight seems hopeless until Batman figures out that taking out Mongul will release Starro. The Starros all return to space when the connection is broken and Mongul teleports off world to return the bad news to Darkseid (omega rayed?).

If any Hollywood types want a complete write up, call me.
 
2013-02-07 12:02:14 AM  
I think it needs to be said again: The problem isn't the DC characters.  THE PROBLEM IS THAT WB EXECUTIVES HAVE THEIR HEADS UP THEIR ASSES WHEN IT COMES TO DC LIVE ACTION.

The way to make the DC characters work would be the following:

1. Hire Dini and Timm to be executive producers for the DC Cinematic Universe.

2. Make a rule: No other WB suit is allowed to meddle in the product. NONE. EVER. Just shut the f♥ck up, have a little faith, and leave Dini and Timm to it.

3. Make another rule: Directors and writers aren't allowed to incorporate their "vision" into the story by significantly changing the characters. Not costume. Not powers. Not names. Not details. Just use the fricking source material and stick close to it. Certainly some changes will be allowed, but you can't do shiatty things like making Superman able to erase memories with a kiss, or making Batman's costume look like a gay bondage outfit, or even making Wonder Woman an under-powered girly-girl who whines about boys and shopping and the size of her boobs. No changing costumes to be "realistic" unless it's really necessary, either. No new powers. No screwed-up origin revamping. We don't want a Batman whose parents were murdered by the Joker or a Manhunter who is actually a green human being who was stranded on Mars during a botched shuttle mission. Just give us what we've been reading, guys.

4. Give us super-powered villains that could actually stand up to these heroes. Give the villains COSTUMES. I don't want to see guys dressed like mobsters taking on the Justice League.

5. Cast people who will commit to several movies, and make sure they're the right age, height, build, etc. Nothing bothers me more than seeing Superman cast as a young 20-something, or Wonder Woman looking like a skinny model, or Manhunter looking like a fat doctor from M*A*S*H.  Here's an idea: Look at Alex Ross' artwork, and cast people that look like that.

6. MAKE IT FUN. I don't want a gloomy series of gritty superhero movies. This isn't the 1990s anymore, and the whole gloom-n-doom, dark hero thing is tired. Nolan's Batman even felt sort of BLAH by the third installment, because there was very little fun in Nolan's movies. We don't want super-serious, grim-faced, navel-gazing, soul-searching heroes. We comic book fans like a little wit with our action. We don't want it to be DUMB, like a Michael Bay movie. We don't want the humor to be overwhelming, like an Adam Sandler flick. We just want heroes who know the value of levity. A deadpan joke from Batman isn't out of character when timed properly. A witty comment from the Flash is REQUIRED every once in a while. Even the Manhunter should be able to grasp the value of irony and crack a joke sometimes.

7. Don't get too heavy on the score. We don't need it to be EPIC OH MAH GOD! symphonic frenzy. Show some of that aforementioned fun in the score. Make it light in places. Not hokey, but just-- Not a booming, dark, dread-filled score like every DC movie since Superman. And please, for the love of all that is good, NO DANNY ELFMAN. Find out if Bear is available.
 
2013-02-07 12:13:11 AM  

ZeroCorpse: And please, for the love of all that is good, NO DANNY ELFMAN


I'm with you there. I can't stand that guy and his circus music that all sounds the same.
 
2013-02-07 12:17:58 AM  

snowshovel: See, I don't undrstand why they just can't do a live-action version of the a set of Justice League episodes. There are so many great ones.
Why is this a problem for studios to understand?
Instead, you are going to get some big name director or someone wanting to put "their stamp" on it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BJ1-trrgqc

If you want a city getting wrecked, you already have this storyboarded.

It's why Ang Lee's Hulk was offensive to me. He tried his level best, throwing in some backstory where Banner's dad genetically engineered him and all that. BUT IT WAS WORTHLESS. Here we have had DECADES of Hulk stories, and he spends time creating a more convoluted backstory? Hulk's origin is pretty simple, it was explained in detail in less than 60 seconds in the tv series intro.

The "putting their stamp on it" is retarded, because it means you have some director explaining that he always thought it was ridiculous that Superman could fly, and rectifies it, or some similar dildoism. Just distill what makes the character great. Example: In the Justice League episodes, Hawkman/Hawkgirl have a different continuity than the confused mess they have in the comics. That's ok, because the characters make sense.

Timm/Dini did a great job of making even the B-listers seem interesting, despite peculiar choices. Among the A-listers, selecting John Stewart for Green Lantern turned out to be a great choice, as he played well as a serious marine against the Flash but paired well with Hawkgirl.
 
2013-02-07 12:19:49 AM  

ZeroCorpse: And please, for the love of all that is good, NO DANNY ELFMAN. Find out if Bear is available.


I like all your suggestions but this one. BSG was novel and entertaining, but damn am I TIRED of hearing his crap and thinking I'm watching Survivor.

Unless you're talking about Bear Grylls, that is.
(Dum dum dum, time to drink my piss, doo dah pow)
 
2013-02-07 12:46:18 AM  

likefunbutnot: Felgraf: Because he can't be everywhere at once: Even if he tried to save everyone, always, forever, he would fail. In some ways, I see the writer job as, in some ways, a way to keep him from going nuts.

We're kind of off into a tangent about the nature of morality, but on some level, a character that can fly at some sizable fraction of light speed and has senses that amount of local omniscience is through inaction allowing a tremendous amount of suffering and evil to take place while he's off making puppy dog eyes with Lois or Lana or Luna or whomever. Clearly, he's drawing a line someplace and saying that he's not going to rip off his shirt for anything less than some presumed threshold of suffering, but everything up to that point is A-OK so long as he can shoot Kryptonian Man-Jam all up in our alliteratively named ladies. And he's the one who makes the judgment call, absent any factors besides what Ma and Pa Kent done taught him.

So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.


and his super-hero/alter ego disguise sucks.
 
2013-02-07 01:25:11 AM  
I would rather see a sequel mario brothers movie than anything else with farking superman.
 
2013-02-07 01:28:49 AM  

likefunbutnot: We're kind of off into a tangent about the nature of morality, but on some level, a character that can fly at some sizable fraction of light speed and has senses that amount of local omniscience is through inaction allowing a tremendous amount of suffering and evil to take place while he's off making puppy dog eyes with Lois or Lana or Luna or whomever. Clearly, he's drawing a line someplace and saying that he's not going to rip off his shirt for anything less than some presumed threshold of suffering, but everything up to that point is A-OK so long as he can shoot Kryptonian Man-Jam all up in our alliteratively named ladies. And he's the one who makes the judgment call, absent any factors besides what Ma and Pa Kent done taught him.


theages.superman.nu
 
2013-02-07 02:00:28 AM  
I vote for Solomon Grundy. Wrong universe?
 
2013-02-07 02:18:51 AM  

meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.


I'd love a Flash movie, actually. But I'd be afraid they'd do all the stupid shiat they did with Fantastic Four - use the superpowers to put him in sit-com like situations to try to wring laughs from the audience.
 
2013-02-07 02:32:06 AM  
Justice League sucked. A movie based on it would suck as well. It was an intro to superheroes for 5 year olds.

/the wonder twins sucked
// I saw every one.
 
2013-02-07 02:33:40 AM  
If they did a Flash movie, they'd do something stupid like make it about Barry Allen.  I mean, imagine if someone did something as stupid as making a Green Lantern movie about that wet blanket Hal Jordan instead of Kyle or John.  Because that would be stupid.
 
2013-02-07 02:53:17 AM  
Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.
 
2013-02-07 02:59:36 AM  

CigaretteSmokingMan: Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.


Shakespeare was the comic books of his day.
 
2013-02-07 03:26:10 AM  
Mark Millar wrote Civil War, Red Son is overrated and contrived, and Kick-Ass was good because of the director's choices. He is a hack with no leg to stand on, but he writes for Marvel right now; of course he's going to fire pot shots at the Distinguished Competition.

DC has had no more wrong with it than Marvel since the mid-70s. The only way Marvel is actually better than DC is in its marketing and maintaining a foolishly loyal fanbase. It made moves straight out of the Disney playbook long before it was actually acquired by Disney. The blame for DC's paltry public perception lies squarely at WB's feet.

I agree that the Justice League movie is currently on track to fail to live up to the success of The Avengers. It has nothing to do with character quality. No one came to see The Avengers for the bastions of character depth that were Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Nick Fury. It has nothing to do with potential story quality - DC has produced more famous/acclaimed/noted stories than Marvel over the decades (though Marvel has more noteworthy writer/artist runs). It's not even that it's untested. The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

A Justice League movie can work. It just won't because as noted earlier it doesn't look like it will have soul.
 
2013-02-07 03:27:08 AM  

Confabulat: CigaretteSmokingMan: Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.

Shakespeare was the comic books of his day.


Man, Shakespeare was the graphic novels of his day. Get it right.
 
2013-02-07 05:12:44 AM  

Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.


I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark. Darkseid's badass level comes close, but doesn't quite hit it. Story and pacing wise, though, they're far better. I agree with earlier posters that you put Dini, Timm, and maybe even Sam Register in a room, and then do exactly what they tell you, that you could get a good movie. Otherwise, forget it.
 
2013-02-07 06:22:40 AM  

Supes: Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.

Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....


Simple, start the movie with an alien invasion. Superman fly's up, starts taking out space ships, and generally kicking ass. Just as it seems that this is going to be a very short movie, Darkseid boom tubes in, and kicks the shiat out of Superman. The rest of the movie could be about the rest of the hero's fighting against overwhelming odds. They are out classed, their most powerful member having been defeated. So only by banding together can they hope to fight back against Darkseid's forces.

And please make it for adults, and add some depth. I want to not only see Bat Man as the brain/general of the group, I want it to eventually come out that he's a real bastard who will do anything, sacrifice anyone, to reach his goals. And Wonder woman should be a stuck up biatch, etc. etc. Real characters with real flaws, not shallow characters that are perfect teammates.

/I suppose they'll have to rescue Superman at some point.
//But at least kill off some lesser hero's
 
2013-02-07 07:43:40 AM  
http://www.fark.com/comments/7578601/82363267#c82363267" target=_blank>grinding_journalist: ...

Wow, are you a WB executive? Because that sounds AWFUL. It sounds exactly like what an exec would pitch. "Just put 'em all up there, add some explosions, and BAM billion dollars Avengers YAY"

The Avengers "thing" started with RDJ establishing the character of Iron Man (I suppose you could say it was the Hulk remake, but I digress.) The reason that the whole universe was able to come together as it did was they spent the time, effort, and money to foster fan connections to the characters, and make them very distinguishable from each other. Iron Man (and Tony Stark) became a person you wanted to see win. Captain America's resolve for duty and his sense of honor were well done, in a comic-book movie kind of way. Thor was absolutely over the top in visuals, establishing the otherworldlyness of the Asgardians, and how they were fish-out-of-water, but still dominant in their own way, which lent credence to Loki in the Avengers. We got enough snippets of Widow and Hawkeye throughout that they didn't need much more introduction, moreso because they're regular people. We didn't need to see them throwing tanks around or overthrowing a regime because we saw that what they do is on a much smaller scale, personal level.

The JLA movie will fail, not because of script or characterization or budgetary issues, but because if you want a well-crafted, relatable set of heroes with deep backgrounds and fan connections, you have to spend years building it, not throwing it together in a single movie with little to no preamble, or just grafting existing movies into a poorly-constructed framework.


So, given this supposed depth of world building and characterisation, why was Avengers such a spastic mess of arch and campy dialogue and CGI covering massive plot-holes?

I mean, I did enjoy it, in a "turn your brain off" way (which the special cookie I ate before watching helped), but frankly it seems more like a mediocre film which enjoyed a great buzz than the result of any kind of master-plan, much the same as Dark Knight or Avatar. Hell, the only really great bit in Avengers, the crowning moment of awesome, was Hulk vs Loki, which required no knowledge of the characters from previous films.

As for the supposed care that Marvel takes with their properties, two kind of shiatty Hulk films and Iron Man 2 run counter to that idea and that's before a certain Nic Cage effort gets a mention.

There's no intrinsic reason a straight, totally balls-out, Justice League film couldn't work and I'd love for them to try it. But Warner Bros has shown very little faith in their DC properties and their interference will almost certainly ruin any chance of it being good. I'm just hoping DC keep up the good work on the animation side.
 
2013-02-07 07:54:16 AM  
Because comic book movies and fans seem to only be able to handle origin stories and that's a lot of OMG I AM A DEEP DARK ANTIHERO SOOOO ANGUISHED to cram into one movie
 
2013-02-07 08:16:01 AM  

TopoGigo: Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark.


No. Flat out - no.

I get that this is your opinion, but you should understand that it's <b>severely in the minority</b>. I won't rant and rave at you because I understand that you're not actually critically assessing any of the films - but still.... gack.  You should feel bad for typing that, it actually embarassed me to read it.
 
2013-02-07 08:32:18 AM  

TwistedFark: TopoGigo: Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark.

No. Flat out - no.

I get that this is your opinion, but you should understand that it's <b>severely in the minority</b>. I won't rant and rave at you because I understand that you're not actually critically assessing any of the films - but still.... gack.  You should feel bad for typing that, it actually embarassed me to read it.


Really? Unless you hate Superman or Batman, DC's animated movies are better written and more enjoyable than Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Thor, Avengers, or whatever else you'd care to bring up. Yes, I know. Tony Stark is a super cool character. AC/DC, hot girls, and fast cars make him even cooler. I get that. Hell, I agree with that. It doesn't change my opinion. Sure, maybe half of them feel like an extra-long episode of Batman or JLU. That's not a bad thing IMO. The rest of them are seriously good fare. Hell, even Superman vs. the Elite, which wasn't really that great, had some really good things to say about the nature of being a demigod in a world made of cardboard, to paraphrase/steal from JLU.
 
2013-02-07 08:39:04 AM  

HeartBurnKid: I just want to drive home how comically stupid Millar's reasoning is:

Captain America: created in 1941
Iron Man: created in 1963
Thor:  created in, roughly, the seventh farking century
The Hulk: created in 1962
Hawkeye: created in 1964
Black Widow: created in 1962
Nick Fury: created in 1963


Wow, imagine how old would they be today in dog years.
 
2013-02-07 08:53:32 AM  

TwistedFark: TopoGigo: Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark.

No. Flat out - no.

I get that this is your opinion, but you should understand that it's severely in the minority. I won't rant and rave at you because I understand that you're not actually critically assessing any of the films - but still.... gack.  You should feel bad for typing that, it actually embarassed me to read it.


You're an idiot.
 
2013-02-07 09:17:14 AM  
With WB Movies thrown into the mix I agree with his conclusion but the path he took to get there I'm a little more iffy about.  These characters can work on the big screen - bats and supes have had successful movies and I've little doubt the rest of the League could as well if done right.  And lets be honest, we saw the same arguments against the Avengers movie right before it made over a billion bux.

The JLA movie is going to suck because WB execs saw the success of the Avengers and are in a mad dash to get their motherfarkin movie check, skipping the bothersome set-up window that the Avengers had from two iron man movies, cap, thor, and to some extent a coupla hulk movies.  Its going to have a half-dozen writers, its going to be entirely suit-driven, and its going to be awful.

Prove me wrong, WB, I triple-dog dare you.
 
2013-02-07 09:24:10 AM  

ianthetexan: Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah).


Didn't Millar just get there a few months ago?
 
2013-02-07 09:32:11 AM  
All I want from DC is a Starman tv series. And maybe a Doom Patrol or Spectre cartoon.

www.stanza101.com
 
2013-02-07 09:58:16 AM  

HeartBurnKid: I just want to drive home how comically stupid Millar's reasoning is:

Captain America: created in 1941
Iron Man: created in 1963
Thor:  created in, roughly, the seventh farking century
The Hulk: created in 1962
Hawkeye: created in 1964
Black Widow: created in 1962
Nick Fury: created in 1963


I think you inadvertently point out that it might be easier updating Cold War-era heroes (especially for the "War on Terror" age) than it is to update pre-World War II-era heroes. And Captain America works without much updating because he's supposed to be a contrast to the modern age.
 
2013-02-07 10:16:10 AM  

likefunbutnot: So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.


I would love it if a superman movie dealt with some more serious shiat like that. I mean it seems that superman from what I have read or seen is either dealing with local problems (bank robbers, or other criminals) or cosmic problems (Zod, or other guys like that who could destroy the earth) but what about the in between problems. I mean if super man existed in our world Al Queda exist, or  would superman have found them and brought them all to justice before 9/11 happened? What about natural disasters, say something like the Japan earthquake/Tsunami from a few years ago, would superman have stopped a bunch of the damage. And if not would people be pissed off about it.

And then lets take it a step further. If superman was around would there be any dictators or warlords controlling countries? What would North Korea look like? And if he takes down North Korea, what about somewhere like Cuba. And if he can actually control governments how does he decide which ones? Does he fix syria? What about a country that has the death penalty or mandatory military service, or even something simple like no government funded health care. Would he force those countries to change?
 
2013-02-07 10:20:18 AM  

Nexzus: Reboot Batman to fit in, so quickly after the TDK trilogy, and you're gonna confuse the general movie going public. Try to shoehorn, say, Joseph Gordon-Levitt to try to tie things together and it's gonna be stupid.


If they try to shoe horn any other DC movie into the universe that Nolan made for batman it is going to suck. I mean first off it is going to make any big gun super hero look like a total asshole. I mean look at the dark knight rises, Bane held Gotham hostage for months with a weapon of mass destruction. Superman or Green Lantern could have taken care of that bomb in about a minute. So why didn't anyone help batman out, unless they are all jerks.  Plus I have said it before but in the Batman movies the only thing close to a super power we saw was a guy who could survive and walk around with half his face blown off.
 
2013-02-07 10:40:09 AM  

mechgreg: And then lets take it a step further. If superman was around would there be any dictators or warlords controlling countries? What would North Korea look like? And if he takes down North Korea, what about somewhere like Cuba. And if he can actually control governments how does he decide which ones? Does he fix syria? What about a country that has the death penalty or mandatory military service, or even something simple like no government funded health care. Would he force those countries to change?


That's why I said I would prefer it if Zod were our leader. He wouldn't put up with any evil dictators. That's his farking job. And the terrorism shiat wouldn't fly either.
 
2013-02-07 10:42:33 AM  

mechgreg: likefunbutnot: So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.

I would love it if a superman movie dealt with some more serious shiat like that. I mean it seems that superman from what I have read or seen is either dealing with local problems (bank robbers, or other criminals) or cosmic problems (Zod, or other guys like that who could destroy the earth) but what about the in between problems. I mean if super man existed in our world Al Queda exist, or  would superman have found them and brought them all to justice before 9/11 happened? What about natural disasters, say something like the Japan earthquake/Tsunami from a few years ago, would superman have stopped a bunch of the damage. And if not would people be pissed off about it.

And then lets take it a step further. If superman was around would there be any dictators or warlords controlling countries? What would North Korea look like? And if he takes down North Korea, what about somewhere like Cuba. And if he can actually control governments how does he decide which ones? Does he fix syria? What about a country that has the death penalty or mandatory military service, or even something simple like no government funded health care. Would he force those countries to change?


I think the Authority dealt with that in their comic. They decided going after giant cosmic threats was a bit silly if they just let ordinary dictators do whatever they wanted, so they stopped the dictators too. The rest of the world's nations got a bit upset that their sovereignty was being challenged so they tried to stop the Authority. Eventually they just ended up taking over the entire world to try and solve its problems. The Elite from 'Superman vs the Elite' were based on them, and it's a pretty good read, if a bit 90's.
 
2013-02-07 11:36:15 AM  

Brass_Robo: I think the Authority dealt with that in their comic. They decided going after giant cosmic threats was a bit silly if they just let ordinary dictators do whatever they wanted, so they stopped the dictators too. The rest of the world's nations got a bit upset that their sovereignty was being challenged so they tried to stop the Authority. Eventually they just ended up taking over the entire world to try and solve its problems. The Elite from 'Superman vs the Elite' were based on them, and it's a pretty good read, if a bit 90's.


I remember that, that was back when I was reading comics. It was actually kind of interesting and it would be cool if superman did something similar (The Authority kicking the Russians out of Chechnya was funny). Although wasn't that when the fake versions of the Avengers took over because the Authority was challenging the power of the world's nations? Because I thought that was kind of lame.
 
2013-02-07 12:50:24 PM  

TwistedFark: TopoGigo: Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark.

No. Flat out - no.

I get that this is your opinion, but you should understand that it's <b>severely in the minority</b>. I won't rant and rave at you because I understand that you're not actually critically assessing any of the films - but still.... gack.  You should feel bad for typing that, it actually embarassed me to read it.


Now THAT'S how you troll...
 
2013-02-07 12:59:11 PM  

Mugato: mechgreg: And then lets take it a step further. If superman was around would there be any dictators or warlords controlling countries? What would North Korea look like? And if he takes down North Korea, what about somewhere like Cuba. And if he can actually control governments how does he decide which ones? Does he fix syria? What about a country that has the death penalty or mandatory military service, or even something simple like no government funded health care. Would he force those countries to change?

That's why I said I would prefer it if Zod were our leader. He wouldn't put up with any evil dictators. That's his farking job. And the terrorism shiat wouldn't fly either.


Again, Justice League animated already did it.

upload.wikimedia.org 

This is why I think any movie version of Justice League will suck - it won't be as thoughtfully crafted by people who give a shiat about the DC universe as the animated series was.

Sadly, I think the same about any more Superman movies. Superman TAS was better than the live action movies, except (most of) Superman 1 and  2...
 
2013-02-07 01:50:50 PM  

Supes: Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance.


I'm willing to acknowledge that it's tricky to write good Superman stories (but I'll also argue that when they do, those are among the very best stories), but it seems odd that you want to swap him out with one of the few characters that are even more level-unbalanced than Superman.

Instead of a super strong, flying brick with super senses and laser eyes, you get a super strong, flying brick with super senses, shape shifting and vast mental powers. About the only thing that offsets this is that he  might be vulnerable to fire (although, these days, that's more of a psychological limitation than an actual weakness).

If you really want a replacement brick, how about Big Barda?
 
2013-02-07 01:53:30 PM  

ianthetexan: Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah). So before he even gets a chance to say how unrelatable he thinks DC's characters are to audiences, we have to remember that Nolan Batman worked and worked well because of its characters, while he shiat the bed on two franchises noted for the strength and relatability of theirs.

The direct relationship of Marvel comics to live action movies is amazing, they do a fairly good job and they make fun and watchable cinema. The direct relationship of DC comics to animated films is amazing. Just about everything the DCAU puts out is more watchable than anything Marvel has put out into the animated realm.

Justice League was a great TV show that was able to pull of actual drama and fun while having large-scale super battles.
X-Men: Evolution was on television at some point. I watched it and honestly couldn't tell you a single thing that happened.
The Avengers Animated movie was choppy and awkward.

Even beyond that, Justice League: Doom, Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, and Green Lantern: Emerald Knights were all better than any animated picture that Marvel has managed to date. It's a shame that writing talent won't be put to work on a live-action JLA movie.


I agree with you in most respects, except that Marvel's animated offerings aren't universally awful, just their TV shows.  I loved Hulk vs. Wolverine (Deadpool cameo!  A good one!), and Planet Hulk was really solid (even got the Mrs. to agree to that one).  If I hadn't seen any of the DC movies you mentioned, I would have enjoyed Iron Man more, but it was too slow, and Dr. Strange is just not my cup of tea.  Even Wolverine vs. Thor was enjoyable.

The Avengers animated movie was just episodes of the TV show stitched together, and that show was crap to begin with, easily on par with the 90s Iron Man or FF shows, but with worse animation.  Ultimate Spider-Man is not what I'm looking for in an SM cartoon, but hey, it seems to be getting good reviews.

I think the specialization in live action or animated says something about the fundamental differences between DC and Marvel.  DC's characters are meant to always just "be", allowing for episodic adventures in a way that the tightly integrated, reality based Marvel U is just not able to anymore.  Pre-Onslaught Marvel could still pull off some great standalone stories for the individual groups, but that's been blown away by everything since.  While I've enjoyed the ride (particularly Civil War and Secret Invasion), I'm not sure how Marvel can back off and get back to doing stand alone things.  In that respect, I think that DC is better positioned to spring a new type of comic book movie on us, one that doesn't rely on 3 movies to tell an arc including the origin and instead just drops us into the action Superman Returns style but with, y'know, plot and good editorial decisions.
 
2013-02-07 01:59:24 PM  

Metaluna Mutant: Again, Justice League animated already did it.


Spider-Man works in part because of the ongoing internal conversation about his place in the world, having his powers and obligations and having to struggle with every day life.

Superman does not have to struggle to live, ever. He is effectively omniscient; he can see and hear everything that happens within some undefined range of his physical being, plus he has who knows what kind of monitoring systems happening going on at the Fortress of Solitude. But he is to the best of my knowledge NEVER plagued with any concerns over his behavior. He seems to have absolute faith in his own righteousness.

I'll grant that I can't really stand to read DC Comics, so perhaps there are depictions of the character as something other than a zealot, but that's the impression I have from cartoons and movies. And it's not really that much of a stretch to say that he's not behaving in a particularly different fashion from the characters in that episode of Justice League. The being who chooses to be a reporter and cover the minutes of Metropolis Sanitation Board Meetings instead of preventing a fatal car car is already making a judgment of human life, whether or not he actively took it.

Kurt Busiek kind of touched on this sort of thing with his Superman Expy in Astro City, but only in the most cursory fashion, and Doctor Manhattan's perspective on these ideas is probably smarter than anything that's ever been done in the history of Superman, but the philosophical implications suggested by his abilities are far more interesting than the character ever could be.
 
2013-02-07 02:06:04 PM  

mechgreg: That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction.


Deities have a habit of demanding worship, so be careful what you ask for.

The real answer, of course, is the a narrative built around Superman doing nothing but stopping petty crimes 24 hours a day would be a farking boring story. Good stories need characters and "guy flying around doing nothing but fighting crime" isn't much of a character.

Any complaint that basically requires you to destroy the story to make it fit into some ill-considered notion of realism (or moral reasoning, in this case) fits squarely into MST3K's "you should really just relax" territory.
 
2013-02-07 02:40:27 PM  

mechgreg: likefunbutnot: So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.

I would love it if a superman movie dealt with some more serious shiat like that. I mean it seems that superman from what I have read or seen is either dealing with local problems (bank robbers, or other criminals) or cosmic problems (Zod, or other guys like that who could destroy the earth) but what about the in between problems. I mean if super man existed in our world Al Queda exist, or  would superman have found them and brought them all to justice before 9/11 happened? What about natural disasters, say something like the Japan earthquake/Tsunami from a few years ago, would superman have stopped a bunch of the damage. And if not would people be pissed off about it.

And then lets take it a step further. If superman was around would there be any dictators or warlords controlling countries? What would North Korea look like? And if he takes down North Korea, what about somewhere like Cuba. And if he can actually control governments how does he decide which ones? Does he fix syria? What about a country that has the death penalty or mandatory military service, or even something simple like no government funded health care. Would he force those countries to change?


Certain elements of that were behind Siegel and Shuster's intial creation of Superman. Matter of fact some of Superman's first foes were mob bosses and corrupt officials. The problem is to do those types of stories now for the big screen you'd need to significantly depower Superman and movie goers just aren't gonna go to see a Superman who can't fly or shoot laser beams from his eyes.
 
2013-02-07 02:46:20 PM  

Metaluna Mutant: Mugato: mechgreg: And then lets take it a step further. If superman was around would there be any dictators or warlords controlling countries? What would North Korea look like? And if he takes down North Korea, what about somewhere like Cuba. And if he can actually control governments how does he decide which ones? Does he fix syria? What about a country that has the death penalty or mandatory military service, or even something simple like no government funded health care. Would he force those countries to change?

That's why I said I would prefer it if Zod were our leader. He wouldn't put up with any evil dictators. That's his farking job. And the terrorism shiat wouldn't fly either.

Again, Justice League animated already did it.

 

This is why I think any movie version of Justice League will suck - it won't be as thoughtfully crafted by people who give a shiat about the DC universe as the animated series was.

Sadly, I think the same about any more Superman movies. Superman TAS was better than the live action movies, except (most of) Superman 1 and  2...


Or even, in some instances, by comics editorial. After Justice League Unlimited wrapped up, Dwayne McDuffie had a brief run on the Justice League comic. There was so much interference from editorial, so many characters he wasn't allowed to use, so many stories that were approved had to be changed at the last minute because the suits changed their minds that McDuffie walked away.
 
2013-02-07 03:11:59 PM  
Dwayne McDuffie was largely in charge of the Animated DCU. He had a lot of passion for the characters, and it showed.

His death really hurts the possibility of a great JLA movie, because nobody else has really stepped up to fill his shoes.
 
2013-02-07 03:28:28 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Any complaint that basically requires you to destroy the story to make it fit into some ill-considered notion of realism (or moral reasoning, in this case) fits squarely into MST3K's "you should really just relax" territory.


You quoted the wrong person since you were actually replying to me but I'll freely acknowledge that the idea of Superman bothers me for exactly the same reason I'm bothered by the idea of any other interventionist deity, especially since the stories that tend to be told about him invariably involve beating up muggers or dealing with inconsequential villains. I'm probably more bothered by the idea that the stories being told about this character are so far beneath his abilities. Like writers can't think of anything better for Superman to do with his time.
 
2013-02-07 03:52:46 PM  

Pyynk: Certain elements of that were behind Siegel and Shuster's intial creation of Superman. Matter of fact some of Superman's first foes were mob bosses and corrupt officials. The problem is to do those types of stories now for the big screen you'd need to significantly depower Superman and movie goers just aren't gonna go to see a Superman who can't fly or shoot laser beams from his eyes.


But wasn't Siegel and Shuster's superman pretty damn weak compared to modern superman? At the time he was basically a super strong guy, that could run very fast, who couldn't be injured and could jump very far or very high. That kind of guy I can see fighting gangsters and that sort of thing, but when you can fly at the speed of light or survive in space, you should have better things to do.
 
2013-02-07 04:04:57 PM  

mechgreg: Pyynk: Certain elements of that were behind Siegel and Shuster's intial creation of Superman. Matter of fact some of Superman's first foes were mob bosses and corrupt officials. The problem is to do those types of stories now for the big screen you'd need to significantly depower Superman and movie goers just aren't gonna go to see a Superman who can't fly or shoot laser beams from his eyes.

But wasn't Siegel and Shuster's superman pretty damn weak compared to modern superman? At the time he was basically a super strong guy, that could run very fast, who couldn't be injured and could jump very far or very high. That kind of guy I can see fighting gangsters and that sort of thing, but when you can fly at the speed of light or survive in space, you should have better things to do.


Yep. As I said, if you wanted to do those kinds of stories now you'd need to signficantly de-power the character. And like it or no, nobody is going to go see a Superman movie where Superman can't fly.

If anything the modern action hero has just as much in common with the original Superman as the modern Superman does.
 
2013-02-07 04:20:04 PM  
I wish Green Lantern hadnt sucked, but i also wish it could have been DCs Iron Man. A broader universe doesnt work with the Nolanverse,  that would have been idiotic, yeah Batman threw Superman out of Gotham during the Cataclysm arc, but the movie was different enough that if he existed, Superman should have just flown in, snatched the truck with the nuke and tossed it into the sun. Then scooped up Bane, toss him into blackgate and weld the doors shut again with his heat vision. So in that context, a Batman reboot is justified if theyre going to build it all up over a decade and give the big five at least their own movies, but theyre not going to bother.

They could have done it with Green Lantern, they could have gotten the ball rolling, throw a few references around, hints of a larger shared continuity... they just didnt. :-/
 
2013-02-07 06:12:37 PM  

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: Dwayne McDuffie was largely in charge of the Animated DCU. He had a lot of passion for the characters, and it showed.

His death really hurts the possibility of a great JLA movie, because nobody else has really stepped up to fill his shoes.


McDuffie's influence definitely was felt in JLU but he wasn't running the DCAU, that was mostly Timm as far as I recall (I say this as a huge fan of McDuffie's).
 
2013-02-07 11:09:10 PM  

Cyno01: I wish Green Lantern hadnt sucked, but i also wish it could have been DCs Iron Man. A broader universe doesnt work with the Nolanverse,  that would have been idiotic, yeah Batman threw Superman out of Gotham during the Cataclysm arc, but the movie was different enough that if he existed, Superman should have just flown in, snatched the truck with the nuke and tossed it into the sun. Then scooped up Bane, toss him into blackgate and weld the doors shut again with his heat vision. So in that context, a Batman reboot is justified if theyre going to build it all up over a decade and give the big five at least their own movies, but theyre not going to bother.

They could have done it with Green Lantern, they could have gotten the ball rolling, throw a few references around, hints of a larger shared continuity... they just didnt. :-/


GL had Amanda Waller (basically DC's Nick Fury) and an allusion to "a suspected alien in Metropolis." It's not much, but it's there.

I too wish that Green Lantern was able to be Warner Brothers' "Iron Man." Unfortunately, the problem with Green Lantern, to me, was that the producers just didn't understand what made people love Iron Man. The only thing Green Lantern had going for it were decent to good visual effects ( except for scale - Green Lantern and Parallax were comparable to the size of the sun in the climax), but movie goers can watch Transformers if they want that stuff. No, Green Lantern was a Dagwood sandwich of mistakes. Poor casting choices (Ryan Reynolds just make for a good Hal Jordan - not even a good Guy Gardner; Blake Lively is dull eye candy), poor script writing choices, middling direction at best (again, the scaling of celestial bodies, as well as the editing of things like the training sequence), and the characters in general weren't written in any engaging way.

I simply don't believe that Marvel's characters are really that much better than DC's - Marvel's just been much better at modernizing them. If Thor and Captain America can be made interesting and work, then any DC character can work. If Marvel's characters were written in the style of Stan Lee today, everyone would think that they're just as corny as DC's characters (outside of Batman) are perceived. I firmly believe that it's WB's fault for the poor public perception of DC characters and if they drop the ball on Justice League, it's going to be a really long time before that is fixed, if ever.
 
2013-02-08 01:27:44 AM  
I would rather see a movie of deliveryboyman than watch another movie with superman.

fark superman.

/doesn't like supes

I thoroughly enjoy most of DCs characters though.
 
2013-02-08 12:24:34 PM  

Lord Binky: GL had Amanda Waller (basically DC's Nick Fury) and an allusion to "a suspected alien in Metropolis." It's not much, but it's there.


Heh. No it didnt, you actually read me suggest that they shouldve done that in some previous Fark thread, i know i have a few times, i just happened to leave that bit out of my standard rant about the GL movie this time.

http://www.fark.com/comments/6334354/70063390#c70063390

http://www.fark.com/comments/7081362/76597850#c76597850
 
2013-02-08 02:42:34 PM  
A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.

this
 
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