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(SciFi Now)   Comics guru Mark Millar explains why a Justice League movie is "a good way to lose $200 million"   (scifinow.co.uk) divider line 129
    More: Interesting, Justice League, avengers assemble, WOLVERINE MOVIE, comics  
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6707 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Feb 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 07:55:41 PM

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: Iron Man is the Batman of Marvel and really only interesting because of Robert Downy Jr.

You can tell great stories with Steve Rogers or Bruce Banner. I think Ang Lee was trying to get there and in another context he might have, but we really wanted "The Incredible Hulk" and not a complex examination of the dualistic nature of human psyche.

I think Toby McGuire did a great turn as Peter Parker, at least in the first two movies. And Chiklis and Evans actually worked very well for their roles in the FF.

But that's the thing. For the Marvel characters, the characters, outside of their costumes, have value and consequence. Maybe not TONS, but certainly more than the interchangeable white guys over at DC.


You really could say the same about Superman. I'll grant you Green Lantern and Flash are all but forgettable. But again, it's about what the movie does with them, not anything inherent in the character itself. Captain America has always been boring.
 
2013-02-06 07:58:51 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.
 
2013-02-06 08:00:41 PM

meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.


C'mon... nothing?  Not even for the scene with Prankster in the bar?  "James, you're wearing the suit again"?  Not even that?
 
2013-02-06 08:01:12 PM
Crisis on two Earths was good.
 
2013-02-06 08:04:34 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.

C'mon... nothing?  Not even for the scene with Prankster in the bar?  "James, you're wearing the suit again"?  Not even that?


Ok, I will admit, a moment there, sure.
 
2013-02-06 08:05:28 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


Love that episode.  Seeing Batman and Orion completely out of their element was priceless.
 
2013-02-06 08:07:39 PM

HeartBurnKid: They're not doing it because they have a story to tell, or even because they think it'd be really cool; they're doing it because The Avengers made money. Period.


It is pretty blatant and I think people are going to see through it.


saintstryfe: 2019: New Batman Franchise. No origin story. Recently unused villains (that is, no Joker, Bane or Catwoman).


Can they finally get Two-Face right? He's the worse handled comic book villain since Luthor.
 
2013-02-06 08:09:45 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


THANK YOU!
 
2013-02-06 08:10:12 PM

imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.


No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.
 
2013-02-06 08:17:00 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.

C'mon... nothing?  Not even for the scene with Prankster in the bar?  "James, you're wearing the suit again"?  Not even that?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDF1ULMin6s Here's a bunch of clips of funny Justice League moments, mostly Flash. "Did you wash your hands?" "NO, because I'm Evul!"

Eh, not every character appeals to everyone, but Justice League made me reconsider the character that I had thought was "the guy whose power is to run about as fast as Superman." It's nice to see a hero appreciated in his hometown, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVpsbec0R0s "I had dinner with two women at the same time. 'Cuz I'm a stud."

Justice League aways makes me think of my oft repeated Stan Lee quote: "Every character is SOMEBODY'S favorite." Write them that way.
 
2013-02-06 08:17:17 PM

HeartBurnKid: PonceAlyosha: HeartBurnKid: Thor: created in, roughly, the seventh farking century

Not really. Kirby's stories have the same relationship to the Eddas and the rest of the Norse myth cycles that West Side Story has to the Tristan and Isolde.

And the movie's depiction has roughly that much in common with Kirby's, disregarding in-jokes like Thor masquerading as Donald Blake.  That's my point; these characters have been imagined and reimagined over and over since their inception, keeping their iconic themes while bringing them more in line with modern sensibilities.  Assigning a level of relevance to them based solely on the date when the character first appeared is ludicrous.


SOMUCHTHIS!
 
2013-02-06 08:22:04 PM

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.

No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.


I always saw this as the hook for the Batman Superman relationship... "If I had your powers I could eliminate all organized crime on the East Coast in a week -- and you spend your time writing a syndicated column"
 
2013-02-06 08:34:03 PM

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.

No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.


That sounds like your own limitation; not the character's.
 
2013-02-06 08:34:29 PM

OhioKnight: I always saw this as the hook for the Batman Superman relationship... "If I had your powers I could eliminate all organized crime on the East Coast in a week -- and you spend your time writing a syndicated column"


Heh. Is that an actual quote? Because it could be.

I always thought the same thing. WTF is he doing dicking around a newspaper office? Like Jor'el told him, "With great power comes great responsibility".

/call off the dogs comic book nerds, that was a joke
 
2013-02-06 08:44:41 PM
I know how to make a good DC Justice League movie/series of movies.

Kidnap Dini, lock him in a room, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

There. Done.
 
2013-02-06 08:47:51 PM

Mugato: OhioKnight: I always saw this as the hook for the Batman Superman relationship... "If I had your powers I could eliminate all organized crime on the East Coast in a week -- and you spend your time writing a syndicated column"

Heh. Is that an actual quote? Because it could be.

I always thought the same thing. WTF is he doing dicking around a newspaper office? Like Jor'el told him, "With great power comes great responsibility".

/call off the dogs comic book nerds, that was a joke


moesucks.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-06 09:09:02 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


So much THIS.

DC has excellent material to work with... so why don't they?
 
2013-02-06 09:15:55 PM

likefunbutnot: imgod2u: You really could say the same about Superman.

No, I can't, because I can't accept that a character with his set of powers and supposed moral rectitude would choose to do anything but act as a superhero full time instead of trying to plant his seed in our Earth Women and hang out at the water cooler with Perry and Jimmy.


Because he can't be everywhere at once: Even if he tried to save everyone, always, forever, he would fail. In some ways, I see the writer job as, in some ways, a way to keep him from going nuts.

When you constantly put pressure on a super-man like superhero, demand that he be like a god and solve all the problems that you yourselves (as a species) have created, well, uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredeemable

Bad things can happen.
 
2013-02-06 09:25:57 PM
Great... Because of this thread I just spent an hour on youtube watching highlight clips from Justice League episodes. Thanks.
 
2013-02-06 09:54:17 PM

PonceAlyosha: Because they've put no real effort into actually building towards a shared universe and are just going to make some awkward, exposition heavy inconsistent mess?


farbekrieg: DC has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

DC needs to accept that they arent in competition with Marvel, they are so far behind they just need to get actually market to an audience who is really unsure who exists in the DC universe, and more importantly why people exist outside of batman and superman.


I'm not into comics, so I'm mildly uninformed but you guys are hitting on what I was already thinking.  DC sucks because the characters are overpowered and unbalanced in way that make a shared universe stupid. Marvel characters are a bit more balanced, so they perform well in groups, but the universe is so oversaturated that it's absurd to imagine world where the Avengers and the X-Men all exist and yet there are still unpowered people in the world living normal lives... it just becomes unbelieveable.

So, why do DC characters have to be in a shared universe? Why do Batman and Superman have to cross paths? They're capable of telling compelling stories withing mashing things together, and it's a lot easier to believe in a world where life is normal except for Superman, than to believe in a world with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern without descending into uncivilized chaos.

/fark Aquaman.
 
2013-02-06 10:14:05 PM
ianthetexan: Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah). So before he even gets a chance to say how unrelatable he thinks DC's characters are to audiences, we have to remember that Nolan Batman worked and worked well because of its characters, while he shiat the bed on two franchises noted for the strength and relatability of theirs.

Millar JUST got hired on last year.  He had nothing to do with X-Men and Fantastic Four.  Neither of which should be called faillures as Origins was a success and is getting a sequel this year, 3 was the biggest movie of the franchise, and First Class was successful and a great movie besides, and it's sequel comes out next year.   

FF did well enough to get a sequel, and it did well enough to get rebooted.

You can lay the mishmash of Marvel movies at Fox at the feet of Tom Rothman, former head of Fox who was on record as hating superhero movies.  Millar's sole contribution to film was Kick-Ass, which also is getting a sequel this year.  Millar is learning from Rothman and DC's mistakes here and will have success, he knows the product.
 
2013-02-06 10:19:51 PM

PonceAlyosha: RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.


SPOILERS MOTHERfarkER!!!
 
2013-02-06 10:21:10 PM
See, I don't undrstand why they just can't do a live-action version of the a set of Justice League episodes. There are so many great ones.
Why is this a problem for studios to understand?
Instead, you are going to get some big name director or someone wanting to put "their stamp" on it.
 
2013-02-06 10:33:21 PM

farbekrieg: the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show


That's another thing. The Green Lantern and Wonder Woman were recent flops, I don't think people will be in the mood for another Batman reboot anytime soon, especially a more comic book-y Batman that they would need to fit in all the supernatural shiat in JLA and Aquaman is a punchline. If Superman doesn't kick everyone's ass next year, they're not going to have any characters anyone wants to see. Maybe The Flash.
 
2013-02-06 10:33:23 PM

Felgraf: Because he can't be everywhere at once: Even if he tried to save everyone, always, forever, he would fail. In some ways, I see the writer job as, in some ways, a way to keep him from going nuts.


We're kind of off into a tangent about the nature of morality, but on some level, a character that can fly at some sizable fraction of light speed and has senses that amount of local omniscience is through inaction allowing a tremendous amount of suffering and evil to take place while he's off making puppy dog eyes with Lois or Lana or Luna or whomever. Clearly, he's drawing a line someplace and saying that he's not going to rip off his shirt for anything less than some presumed threshold of suffering, but everything up to that point is A-OK so long as he can shoot Kryptonian Man-Jam all up in our alliteratively named ladies. And he's the one who makes the judgment call, absent any factors besides what Ma and Pa Kent done taught him.

So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.
 
2013-02-06 10:43:45 PM

likefunbutnot: That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.


That why we would have been better off with Zod and his crew (I'm talking about the movie here, I don't read Superman). After they took over the White House, they didn't really bother anybody. They'd probably fly around the world killing off the psycho tyrants we want to but can't and they wouldn't put up with any terrorism shiat.

/hail Zod
 
2013-02-06 11:21:34 PM
Whatever movie they make, it needs Zander in at least a cameo role.
 
2013-02-06 11:37:34 PM
Where Booster Gold movie, where?
 
2013-02-06 11:37:46 PM
Starro (lots of nameless aliens)/Mongul (Loki). Just rip off the Avengers and rake in the cash. Superman (Hulk), Batman (Iron Man), Wonder Woman (Captain America), Green Lantern (Hawkeye) and Flash (Black Widow) are brought together by a government entity (SHEILD) when the baby Starros flood Metropolis (New York). Darkseid (Thanos) is using it as an advance for an invasion to test the forces. Mongul controls the Starro (I know, not in the comics). The heroes react poorly to being slapped together until the common enemy forces them to team up for real. Big fight seems hopeless until Batman figures out that taking out Mongul will release Starro. The Starros all return to space when the connection is broken and Mongul teleports off world to return the bad news to Darkseid (omega rayed?).

If any Hollywood types want a complete write up, call me.
 
2013-02-07 12:02:14 AM
I think it needs to be said again: The problem isn't the DC characters.  THE PROBLEM IS THAT WB EXECUTIVES HAVE THEIR HEADS UP THEIR ASSES WHEN IT COMES TO DC LIVE ACTION.

The way to make the DC characters work would be the following:

1. Hire Dini and Timm to be executive producers for the DC Cinematic Universe.

2. Make a rule: No other WB suit is allowed to meddle in the product. NONE. EVER. Just shut the f♥ck up, have a little faith, and leave Dini and Timm to it.

3. Make another rule: Directors and writers aren't allowed to incorporate their "vision" into the story by significantly changing the characters. Not costume. Not powers. Not names. Not details. Just use the fricking source material and stick close to it. Certainly some changes will be allowed, but you can't do shiatty things like making Superman able to erase memories with a kiss, or making Batman's costume look like a gay bondage outfit, or even making Wonder Woman an under-powered girly-girl who whines about boys and shopping and the size of her boobs. No changing costumes to be "realistic" unless it's really necessary, either. No new powers. No screwed-up origin revamping. We don't want a Batman whose parents were murdered by the Joker or a Manhunter who is actually a green human being who was stranded on Mars during a botched shuttle mission. Just give us what we've been reading, guys.

4. Give us super-powered villains that could actually stand up to these heroes. Give the villains COSTUMES. I don't want to see guys dressed like mobsters taking on the Justice League.

5. Cast people who will commit to several movies, and make sure they're the right age, height, build, etc. Nothing bothers me more than seeing Superman cast as a young 20-something, or Wonder Woman looking like a skinny model, or Manhunter looking like a fat doctor from M*A*S*H.  Here's an idea: Look at Alex Ross' artwork, and cast people that look like that.

6. MAKE IT FUN. I don't want a gloomy series of gritty superhero movies. This isn't the 1990s anymore, and the whole gloom-n-doom, dark hero thing is tired. Nolan's Batman even felt sort of BLAH by the third installment, because there was very little fun in Nolan's movies. We don't want super-serious, grim-faced, navel-gazing, soul-searching heroes. We comic book fans like a little wit with our action. We don't want it to be DUMB, like a Michael Bay movie. We don't want the humor to be overwhelming, like an Adam Sandler flick. We just want heroes who know the value of levity. A deadpan joke from Batman isn't out of character when timed properly. A witty comment from the Flash is REQUIRED every once in a while. Even the Manhunter should be able to grasp the value of irony and crack a joke sometimes.

7. Don't get too heavy on the score. We don't need it to be EPIC OH MAH GOD! symphonic frenzy. Show some of that aforementioned fun in the score. Make it light in places. Not hokey, but just-- Not a booming, dark, dread-filled score like every DC movie since Superman. And please, for the love of all that is good, NO DANNY ELFMAN. Find out if Bear is available.
 
2013-02-07 12:13:11 AM

ZeroCorpse: And please, for the love of all that is good, NO DANNY ELFMAN


I'm with you there. I can't stand that guy and his circus music that all sounds the same.
 
2013-02-07 12:17:58 AM

snowshovel: See, I don't undrstand why they just can't do a live-action version of the a set of Justice League episodes. There are so many great ones.
Why is this a problem for studios to understand?
Instead, you are going to get some big name director or someone wanting to put "their stamp" on it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BJ1-trrgqc

If you want a city getting wrecked, you already have this storyboarded.

It's why Ang Lee's Hulk was offensive to me. He tried his level best, throwing in some backstory where Banner's dad genetically engineered him and all that. BUT IT WAS WORTHLESS. Here we have had DECADES of Hulk stories, and he spends time creating a more convoluted backstory? Hulk's origin is pretty simple, it was explained in detail in less than 60 seconds in the tv series intro.

The "putting their stamp on it" is retarded, because it means you have some director explaining that he always thought it was ridiculous that Superman could fly, and rectifies it, or some similar dildoism. Just distill what makes the character great. Example: In the Justice League episodes, Hawkman/Hawkgirl have a different continuity than the confused mess they have in the comics. That's ok, because the characters make sense.

Timm/Dini did a great job of making even the B-listers seem interesting, despite peculiar choices. Among the A-listers, selecting John Stewart for Green Lantern turned out to be a great choice, as he played well as a serious marine against the Flash but paired well with Hawkgirl.
 
2013-02-07 12:19:49 AM

ZeroCorpse: And please, for the love of all that is good, NO DANNY ELFMAN. Find out if Bear is available.


I like all your suggestions but this one. BSG was novel and entertaining, but damn am I TIRED of hearing his crap and thinking I'm watching Survivor.

Unless you're talking about Bear Grylls, that is.
(Dum dum dum, time to drink my piss, doo dah pow)
 
2013-02-07 12:46:18 AM

likefunbutnot: Felgraf: Because he can't be everywhere at once: Even if he tried to save everyone, always, forever, he would fail. In some ways, I see the writer job as, in some ways, a way to keep him from going nuts.

We're kind of off into a tangent about the nature of morality, but on some level, a character that can fly at some sizable fraction of light speed and has senses that amount of local omniscience is through inaction allowing a tremendous amount of suffering and evil to take place while he's off making puppy dog eyes with Lois or Lana or Luna or whomever. Clearly, he's drawing a line someplace and saying that he's not going to rip off his shirt for anything less than some presumed threshold of suffering, but everything up to that point is A-OK so long as he can shoot Kryptonian Man-Jam all up in our alliteratively named ladies. And he's the one who makes the judgment call, absent any factors besides what Ma and Pa Kent done taught him.

So Superman is benevolent enough to get a kitty out of a tree, but if he hears non-consensual sex three blocks away or notices a parent beating their kid with his X-ray vision, that's not his deal? Does he stop a schoolyard bully? What about the possibly justifiable school shooting that happens in response? Does he turn a blind eye to gay bashing because Pa Kent had a bad night on shore leave in Bangkok?

That's not to say that morality is somehow absolute, but in effectively acting as a sort of local deity, he has to assume a corresponding level of responsibility even for the things that he allowed to happen through inaction. That's just the law of super heroes.


and his super-hero/alter ego disguise sucks.
 
2013-02-07 01:25:11 AM
I would rather see a sequel mario brothers movie than anything else with farking superman.
 
2013-02-07 01:28:49 AM

likefunbutnot: We're kind of off into a tangent about the nature of morality, but on some level, a character that can fly at some sizable fraction of light speed and has senses that amount of local omniscience is through inaction allowing a tremendous amount of suffering and evil to take place while he's off making puppy dog eyes with Lois or Lana or Luna or whomever. Clearly, he's drawing a line someplace and saying that he's not going to rip off his shirt for anything less than some presumed threshold of suffering, but everything up to that point is A-OK so long as he can shoot Kryptonian Man-Jam all up in our alliteratively named ladies. And he's the one who makes the judgment call, absent any factors besides what Ma and Pa Kent done taught him.


theages.superman.nu
 
2013-02-07 02:00:28 AM
I vote for Solomon Grundy. Wrong universe?
 
2013-02-07 02:18:51 AM

meanmutton: HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.

I watched it and frankly didn't care for him, the villains in it, or the plot of the episode.

I have zero expectations that I could enjoy a Flash movie. Hey, I get that other people like ths character. I just don't.


I'd love a Flash movie, actually. But I'd be afraid they'd do all the stupid shiat they did with Fantastic Four - use the superpowers to put him in sit-com like situations to try to wring laughs from the audience.
 
2013-02-07 02:32:06 AM
Justice League sucked. A movie based on it would suck as well. It was an intro to superheroes for 5 year olds.

/the wonder twins sucked
// I saw every one.
 
2013-02-07 02:33:40 AM
If they did a Flash movie, they'd do something stupid like make it about Barry Allen.  I mean, imagine if someone did something as stupid as making a Green Lantern movie about that wet blanket Hal Jordan instead of Kyle or John.  Because that would be stupid.
 
2013-02-07 02:53:17 AM
Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.
 
2013-02-07 02:59:36 AM

CigaretteSmokingMan: Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.


Shakespeare was the comic books of his day.
 
2013-02-07 03:26:10 AM
Mark Millar wrote Civil War, Red Son is overrated and contrived, and Kick-Ass was good because of the director's choices. He is a hack with no leg to stand on, but he writes for Marvel right now; of course he's going to fire pot shots at the Distinguished Competition.

DC has had no more wrong with it than Marvel since the mid-70s. The only way Marvel is actually better than DC is in its marketing and maintaining a foolishly loyal fanbase. It made moves straight out of the Disney playbook long before it was actually acquired by Disney. The blame for DC's paltry public perception lies squarely at WB's feet.

I agree that the Justice League movie is currently on track to fail to live up to the success of The Avengers. It has nothing to do with character quality. No one came to see The Avengers for the bastions of character depth that were Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Nick Fury. It has nothing to do with potential story quality - DC has produced more famous/acclaimed/noted stories than Marvel over the decades (though Marvel has more noteworthy writer/artist runs). It's not even that it's untested. The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

A Justice League movie can work. It just won't because as noted earlier it doesn't look like it will have soul.
 
2013-02-07 03:27:08 AM

Confabulat: CigaretteSmokingMan: Come on. We're talking about comic books. It's not Shakespeare.

Shakespeare was the comic books of his day.


Man, Shakespeare was the graphic novels of his day. Get it right.
 
2013-02-07 05:12:44 AM

Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.


I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark. Darkseid's badass level comes close, but doesn't quite hit it. Story and pacing wise, though, they're far better. I agree with earlier posters that you put Dini, Timm, and maybe even Sam Register in a room, and then do exactly what they tell you, that you could get a good movie. Otherwise, forget it.
 
2013-02-07 06:22:40 AM

Supes: Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.

Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....


Simple, start the movie with an alien invasion. Superman fly's up, starts taking out space ships, and generally kicking ass. Just as it seems that this is going to be a very short movie, Darkseid boom tubes in, and kicks the shiat out of Superman. The rest of the movie could be about the rest of the hero's fighting against overwhelming odds. They are out classed, their most powerful member having been defeated. So only by banding together can they hope to fight back against Darkseid's forces.

And please make it for adults, and add some depth. I want to not only see Bat Man as the brain/general of the group, I want it to eventually come out that he's a real bastard who will do anything, sacrifice anyone, to reach his goals. And Wonder woman should be a stuck up biatch, etc. etc. Real characters with real flaws, not shallow characters that are perfect teammates.

/I suppose they'll have to rescue Superman at some point.
//But at least kill off some lesser hero's
 
2013-02-07 07:43:40 AM
http://www.fark.com/comments/7578601/82363267#c82363267" target=_blank>grinding_journalist: ...

Wow, are you a WB executive? Because that sounds AWFUL. It sounds exactly like what an exec would pitch. "Just put 'em all up there, add some explosions, and BAM billion dollars Avengers YAY"

The Avengers "thing" started with RDJ establishing the character of Iron Man (I suppose you could say it was the Hulk remake, but I digress.) The reason that the whole universe was able to come together as it did was they spent the time, effort, and money to foster fan connections to the characters, and make them very distinguishable from each other. Iron Man (and Tony Stark) became a person you wanted to see win. Captain America's resolve for duty and his sense of honor were well done, in a comic-book movie kind of way. Thor was absolutely over the top in visuals, establishing the otherworldlyness of the Asgardians, and how they were fish-out-of-water, but still dominant in their own way, which lent credence to Loki in the Avengers. We got enough snippets of Widow and Hawkeye throughout that they didn't need much more introduction, moreso because they're regular people. We didn't need to see them throwing tanks around or overthrowing a regime because we saw that what they do is on a much smaller scale, personal level.

The JLA movie will fail, not because of script or characterization or budgetary issues, but because if you want a well-crafted, relatable set of heroes with deep backgrounds and fan connections, you have to spend years building it, not throwing it together in a single movie with little to no preamble, or just grafting existing movies into a poorly-constructed framework.


So, given this supposed depth of world building and characterisation, why was Avengers such a spastic mess of arch and campy dialogue and CGI covering massive plot-holes?

I mean, I did enjoy it, in a "turn your brain off" way (which the special cookie I ate before watching helped), but frankly it seems more like a mediocre film which enjoyed a great buzz than the result of any kind of master-plan, much the same as Dark Knight or Avatar. Hell, the only really great bit in Avengers, the crowning moment of awesome, was Hulk vs Loki, which required no knowledge of the characters from previous films.

As for the supposed care that Marvel takes with their properties, two kind of shiatty Hulk films and Iron Man 2 run counter to that idea and that's before a certain Nic Cage effort gets a mention.

There's no intrinsic reason a straight, totally balls-out, Justice League film couldn't work and I'd love for them to try it. But Warner Bros has shown very little faith in their DC properties and their interference will almost certainly ruin any chance of it being good. I'm just hoping DC keep up the good work on the animation side.
 
2013-02-07 07:54:16 AM
Because comic book movies and fans seem to only be able to handle origin stories and that's a lot of OMG I AM A DEEP DARK ANTIHERO SOOOO ANGUISHED to cram into one movie
 
2013-02-07 08:16:01 AM

TopoGigo: Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark.


No. Flat out - no.

I get that this is your opinion, but you should understand that it's <b>severely in the minority</b>. I won't rant and rave at you because I understand that you're not actually critically assessing any of the films - but still.... gack.  You should feel bad for typing that, it actually embarassed me to read it.
 
2013-02-07 08:32:18 AM

TwistedFark: TopoGigo: Lord Binky: The best that Marvel has ever produced for television - Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - a damn good cartoon show - still feels juvenile compared to Justice League.

I agree 100% with this statement. I really loved that show, and it had some fantastic writing. Even with the sophomoric feel, and the overplayed intros to the characters, it probably was as good as the original Justice League. It didn't come close to measuring up to JLU, though.

Then you look at DC's animated movies. They blow any of Marvel's blockbuster movies out of the water in any metric other than the sheer awesome factor they gave Tony Stark.

No. Flat out - no.

I get that this is your opinion, but you should understand that it's <b>severely in the minority</b>. I won't rant and rave at you because I understand that you're not actually critically assessing any of the films - but still.... gack.  You should feel bad for typing that, it actually embarassed me to read it.


Really? Unless you hate Superman or Batman, DC's animated movies are better written and more enjoyable than Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Thor, Avengers, or whatever else you'd care to bring up. Yes, I know. Tony Stark is a super cool character. AC/DC, hot girls, and fast cars make him even cooler. I get that. Hell, I agree with that. It doesn't change my opinion. Sure, maybe half of them feel like an extra-long episode of Batman or JLU. That's not a bad thing IMO. The rest of them are seriously good fare. Hell, even Superman vs. the Elite, which wasn't really that great, had some really good things to say about the nature of being a demigod in a world made of cardboard, to paraphrase/steal from JLU.
 
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