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(SciFi Now)   Comics guru Mark Millar explains why a Justice League movie is "a good way to lose $200 million"   (scifinow.co.uk) divider line 129
    More: Interesting, Justice League, avengers assemble, WOLVERINE MOVIE, comics  
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6707 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Feb 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 05:08:52 PM
Reasons fail without:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-06 05:22:39 PM
Uh, because I wont be better than this  www.supermanhomepage.com

/hot as a Binary Fusion Generator
 
2013-02-06 05:24:39 PM
Because they've put no real effort into actually building towards a shared universe and are just going to make some awkward, exposition heavy inconsistent mess?
 
2013-02-06 05:33:44 PM
Because their only good character is batman?
 
2013-02-06 05:36:21 PM
How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?
 
2013-02-06 05:40:31 PM
DC has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

DC needs to accept that they arent in competition with Marvel, they are so far behind they just need to get actually market to an audience who is really unsure who exists in the DC universe, and more importantly why people exist outside of batman and superman.
 
2013-02-06 05:41:36 PM
Because they don't have RDJr?
 
2013-02-06 05:43:59 PM

farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.


...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...
 
2013-02-06 05:44:18 PM

fawlty: Because they don't have RDJr?


I dont see why they couldnt have him, wasnt Hal Jordan also Wade Wilson?
 
2013-02-06 05:45:14 PM
Wow, Millar went through a dissertation when it could be explained in one simple phrase:

BECAUSE OF WARNER BROTHERS, STUPID!

Even that whole "these were characters that were created 75 years ago" explanation doesn't wash because of shows like "Batman: The Animated Series", "Justice League" and "Justice League Unlimited" that introduced DC's iconic heroes to a whole new generation and got major plaudits because of that.  Heck, "Young Justice" and "GL:TAS" have gotten some good buzz as well.  Not to mention some of the DC Direct-to-DVD features that have been decent/great.

No folks, the real problem is WB sticking their hands into something they don't show jack and shiat of.  Instead of letting the DC people guide the project so it can look the way it's supposed to, WB (afraid they'd lose money over a project they have little/no control over) go ahead and put their hands in it, leading to a clusterfark of movies that look more of a moneygrab than a "Hey, let's give the people what they want" feel that Marvel's been pulling off more often than not.
 
2013-02-06 05:49:47 PM

BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...


RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.
 
2013-02-06 05:53:28 PM

Mugato: How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?


Flash, but it needs to be done slightly tongue-in-cheek.
 
2013-02-06 05:58:14 PM
A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.
 
2013-02-06 06:05:51 PM

BafflerMeal: ...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...


It's like they strive to fail.
Hell, I'm still pissed Batman: The Brave and the Bold ended mid-season. You could tell that show was a labor of love by people who knew DC inside and out. How about you let them make a Justice League movie?
 
2013-02-06 06:06:28 PM

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


This.
 
2013-02-06 06:09:08 PM

BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...


LALALALALAAICAN'THEARYOU


damnitsomuch.
 
2013-02-06 06:12:09 PM

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....
 
2013-02-06 06:12:58 PM
Millar is Fox's super hero franchise chief. Let's not forget that he failed on two major franchises:  X-Men (III and Origins were crap on film), and Fantastic Four (gaaaaaah). So before he even gets a chance to say how unrelatable he thinks DC's characters are to audiences, we have to remember that Nolan Batman worked and worked well because of its characters, while he shiat the bed on two franchises noted for the strength and relatability of theirs.

The direct relationship of Marvel comics to live action movies is amazing, they do a fairly good job and they make fun and watchable cinema. The direct relationship of DC comics to animated films is amazing. Just about everything the DCAU puts out is more watchable than anything Marvel has put out into the animated realm.

Justice League was a great TV show that was able to pull of actual drama and fun while having large-scale super battles.
X-Men: Evolution was on television at some point. I watched it and honestly couldn't tell you a single thing that happened.
The Avengers Animated movie was choppy and awkward.

Even beyond that, Justice League: Doom, Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, and Green Lantern: Emerald Knights were all better than any animated picture that Marvel has managed to date. It's a shame that writing talent won't be put to work on a live-action JLA movie.
 
2013-02-06 06:17:40 PM

PonceAlyosha: BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...

RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.


Don't you know, you can't have anything resembling intelligent writing and animation at the same time?  Same thing is happening to Tron Legacy.  Happened to Avengers: Earth's Greatest Heroes as well.
 
2013-02-06 06:24:58 PM
The two universes they've (recently) portrayed have been pretty much the polar opposite of each other. Chris Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy - gritty, realistic, grounded in reality; and the Green Lantern/Superman universes - fantastical,and otherworldly. You try to mix them, and you're going to get an unintentionally funny mess. Reboot Batman to fit in, so quickly after the TDK trilogy, and you're gonna confuse the general movie going public. Try to shoehorn, say, Joseph Gordon-Levitt to try to tie things together and it's gonna be stupid.

The whole thing smacks of a desperate "me too" move by Warner Brothers. It probably won't tank, but it won't reach Avengers level of performance..
 
2013-02-06 06:25:26 PM
I was just about ready to post a rant about how Millar can go fark himself for forcing us to put up with Lana Lang for eight farking seasons until I remembered that it was a different Millar. So never mind.

/god damn was she obnoxious
 
2013-02-06 06:27:18 PM

PonceAlyosha: BafflerMeal: farbekrieg: C has done a horrid job of maintaining and marketing properties, they follow up huge amounts of goodwill created by Dini and Timm with shiatty offerings like the green lantern movie the last several superman movies, an ill advised Wonderwoman Tv show, and yanking their fans around with continuity reboots.

...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...

RIGHT AFTER AYA BECAME THE farkING ANTI-MONITER. That is a crime worthy of goddamn execution.


they aren't going away immediately. The seasons are being allowed to finish, so we will get conclusions to GL and YJ.
 
2013-02-06 06:28:20 PM

PonceAlyosha: Because they've put no real effort into actually building towards a shared universe and are just going to make some awkward, exposition heavy inconsistent mess?


Nope.

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


Yep.

That's one of the important differences between the Marvel and DC universes. The Marvel characters' appeal lies in their origins, their trials and flaws.  DC's fun comes from epic larger than life heroes.  They are archetypes.  I can't find where I first saw it, but there was an article (or maybe just a forum post) that compared it to the difference between the Greek myths of the Gods on Olympus consorting among themselves vs the stories of the Gods mingling with mortals.
 
2013-02-06 06:30:56 PM

thornhill: Mugato: How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?

Flash, but it needs to be done slightly tongue-in-cheek.


My friend and I thought this one out. Take a 15 minute movie and then play it out in super slow mo to stretch to two hours so it's like living in Flash's world.
 
2013-02-06 06:31:47 PM

Supes: Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.

Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....


Superman in that line up does not upset the balance any more then Wonder Woman or Green Lantern. He is the biggest hammer you have, but he is still only one guy. The point of the Justice League is that there is some earth shattering bad guy or bad guys with a huge cast of mooks. That is the reason the team up is needed, so sure Superman outstrips everybody else, but even he can be overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
 
2013-02-06 06:34:18 PM
"Comics guru Mark Millar".

Well this is rather embarrassing; it appear I have somehow stepped into an alternative universe.
 
2013-02-06 06:46:10 PM
The Justice League movie isn't a good idea, but not for Millar's inane reasoning that the characters are "too old".  It's because there's no soul behind the idea.  They're not doing it because they have a story to tell, or even because they think it'd be really cool; they're doing it because The Avengers made money.  Period.

If Warner wanted to make great superhero movies that tied into a connected universe for the sake of making great movies, they'd dig up Bruce Timm and give him the same kind of "guru" role that Marvel Studios gave Joss Whedon.  But all they care about is cashing in, so they're not going to do that.
 
2013-02-06 06:49:28 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: BafflerMeal: ...and they are cancelling Young Justice and Green Lantern Animated...

It's like they strive to fail.
Hell, I'm still pissed Batman: The Brave and the Bold ended mid-season. You could tell that show was a labor of love by people who knew DC inside and out. How about you let them make a Justice League movie?


Brave and the Bold got 65 episodes.  That's a decent run for a cartoon.

Young Justice being cancelled really pisses me off, though.  They were really just getting started.
 
2013-02-06 06:56:11 PM
cdn.mos.totalfilm.com

It's about time these guys got their own movie.  Super Fabio and the Star-Spangled Adulterer are my favorites!
 
2013-02-06 07:01:53 PM
I just want to drive home how comically stupid Millar's reasoning is:

Captain America: created in 1941
Iron Man: created in 1963
Thor:  created in, roughly, the seventh farking century
The Hulk: created in 1962
Hawkeye: created in 1964
Black Widow: created in 1962
Nick Fury: created in 1963
 
2013-02-06 07:04:46 PM

HeartBurnKid: Brave and the Bold got 65 episodes. That's a decent run for a cartoon.

Young Justice being cancelled really pisses me off, though. They were really just getting started.


Eh, I was mad the last season wasn't a full season, while it seemed like they still had a lot of ideas now that they were using more A-listers like Superman and Wonderwoman. It was a good run with an abrupt stop.

And like I said, it's like they want to fail.
 
2013-02-06 07:05:39 PM

HeartBurnKid: Thor: created in, roughly, the seventh farking century


Not really. Kirby's stories have the same relationship to the Eddas and the rest of the Norse myth cycles that West Side Story has to the Tristan and Isolde.

HeartBurnKid: The Justice League movie isn't a good idea, but not for Millar's inane reasoning that the characters are "too old". It's because there's no soul behind the idea. They're not doing it because they have a story to tell, or even because they think it'd be really cool; they're doing it because The Avengers made money. Period.


Nail, head.
 
2013-02-06 07:08:09 PM

Supes: Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman.

PonceAlyosha: Nail, head.


covers.cbrd.info
 
2013-02-06 07:11:54 PM

PonceAlyosha: HeartBurnKid: Thor: created in, roughly, the seventh farking century

Not really. Kirby's stories have the same relationship to the Eddas and the rest of the Norse myth cycles that West Side Story has to the Tristan and Isolde.


And the movie's depiction has roughly that much in common with Kirby's, disregarding in-jokes like Thor masquerading as Donald Blake.  That's my point; these characters have been imagined and reimagined over and over since their inception, keeping their iconic themes while bringing them more in line with modern sensibilities.  Assigning a level of relevance to them based solely on the date when the character first appeared is ludicrous.
 
2013-02-06 07:12:28 PM
How to do it right: the 6 year plan.

2013: Announce the DC Movie Universe at Comic Con. It started with Green Lantern and Man of Steel. Announce Wonder Woman: Justice of the Gods, basic post-Crisis origin story. Have the enemy be Circe.

2014: Release Wonder Woman. The end of it features a radio communication with the announcement of a purple man wreaking havoc with yellow light. Statics out. Corps logo. Green Lantern 2: Sinestro's Might.

2015: Green Lantern 2 released. Teaser at the end have a sonic boom with a red streak: The Flash: Speed Force. An established Flash, no origin story: Barry Allen with Bart as an adult civilian CSI partner who gains the same powers. The enemy is Zoom. Barry Allen dies in the film, leaving Bart as the new Flash to go forward. Kinda a Qui-gon/Obi-Wan thing.

2016: Release Flash. The end of it has a grizzled detective overlooking a crime scene that Bart is working at in his civilian disguse. Fade him to green. The Manhunter from Mars.

2017: Release Manhunter from Mars. Insert the villain of choice as a teaser for the JL movie. We have our team: Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter. Might I suggest Felix Faust, a badly misused magical villain who can go toe-to-toe with Superman if properly setup, but have no direct connection to any of the heroes above?

2018: release the film. Have Batman intro in the film to round out the team. Maybe reveal him to be the team's brains and financing, ala Oracle.

2019: New Batman Franchise. No origin story. Recently unused villains (that is, no Joker, Bane or Catwoman).
 
2013-02-06 07:13:00 PM

Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.


Wow, are you a WB executive? Because that sounds AWFUL. It sounds exactly like what an exec would pitch. "Just put 'em all up there, add some explosions, and BAM billion dollars Avengers YAY"

The Avengers "thing" started with RDJ establishing the character of Iron Man (I suppose you could say it was the Hulk remake, but I digress.) The reason that the whole universe was able to come together as it did was they spent the time, effort, and money to foster fan connections to the characters, and make them very distinguishable from each other. Iron Man (and Tony Stark) became a person you wanted to see win. Captain America's resolve for duty and his sense of honor were well done, in a comic-book movie kind of way. Thor was absolutely over the top in visuals, establishing the otherworldlyness of the Asgardians, and how they were fish-out-of-water, but still dominant in their own way, which lent credence to Loki in the Avengers. We got enough snippets of Widow and Hawkeye throughout that they didn't need much more introduction, moreso because they're regular people. We didn't need to see them throwing tanks around or overthrowing a regime because we saw that what they do is on a much smaller scale, personal level.

The JLA movie will fail, not because of script or characterization or budgetary issues, but because if you want a well-crafted, relatable set of heroes with deep backgrounds and fan connections, you have to spend years building it, not throwing it together in a single movie with little to no preamble, or just grafting existing movies into a poorly-constructed framework.
 
2013-02-06 07:14:30 PM

saintstryfe: How to do it right: the 6 year plan.


Hm. You seem to have beaten me to it in a much more interesting way.
 
2013-02-06 07:20:26 PM

thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?


Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.
 
2013-02-06 07:22:19 PM

Supes: Slaves2Darkness: A Justice League movie is easy, take the iconic big five Super Man, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash and don't explain their origins, hell don't even do a how we all got together movie just have them be big dam hero's against a big dam bunch of bad guys. No angst, no whining, no Smallville shiat, just big dam heroes.

Throw in Martian Manhunter, and eliminate Superman. Don't explain it, explanations don't matter. Having Superman around just upsets the balance, and the all best Superman stories revolve around his his dual-identity/alien on earth concept anyway. Hard to do that in a movie with an ensemble cast.

What I wouldn't give for a Green Lantern movie done right....


Green Lantern has all the stupidly over powered problems of Superman without any of the cool dual identity stuff.
 
2013-02-06 07:23:57 PM

meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.


Watch this. Then say that again.
 
2013-02-06 07:25:11 PM
 
2013-02-06 07:30:04 PM

Mugato: How about besides Batman, the characters are lame compared to The Avengers?


I don't know that Captain America, bow-and-arrow dude, 3D-shot-of-my-ass-chick or Hulk are really all that interesting either. Iron Man is the Batman of Marvel and really only interesting because of Robert Downy Jr.
 
2013-02-06 07:32:30 PM
I think he's right about the characters.
Batman is the only one of the bunch that's not really interchangeable with the others.

DC also owns Shazam nee Captain Marvel, who is my favorite DC character, but he'll always be a fourth stringer because of internal prejudices and legal wrangling that stem from the characters origin a more-popular-than-Superman rival from another comic company (Fawcett) that DC acquired decades later.
 
2013-02-06 07:35:01 PM
Also:
art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-02-06 07:35:20 PM

meanmutton: Green Lantern has all the stupidly over powered problems of Superman without any of the cool dual identity stuff.


If they could pull off the Emerald Twilight storyline, it'd be outstanding. Though granted that'd require a bit of setup first.

Oh, and if they make a Justice League movie, I'd support basing it on The New Frontier. Though Tower of Babel could also be pretty fun.
 
2013-02-06 07:35:31 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


He was the heart of the Justice League. For a guy with such lame archenemies, they really do a great job in that episode. I especially like him talking gently to the crazy guy. "You're wearing the suit again."
 
2013-02-06 07:41:40 PM

imgod2u: Iron Man is the Batman of Marvel and really only interesting because of Robert Downy Jr.


You can tell great stories with Steve Rogers or Bruce Banner. I think Ang Lee was trying to get there and in another context he might have, but we really wanted "The Incredible Hulk" and not a complex examination of the dualistic nature of human psyche.

I think Toby McGuire did a great turn as Peter Parker, at least in the first two movies. And Chiklis and Evans actually worked very well for their roles in the FF.

But that's the thing. For the Marvel characters, the characters, outside of their costumes, have value and consequence. Maybe not TONS, but certainly more than the interchangeable white guys over at DC.
 
2013-02-06 07:46:06 PM

HeartBurnKid: meanmutton: thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?

Came here to basically say this. God, I hate DC.

Then again, the Marvel movies made me like Thor - no small feat - so MAYBE there is a chance someone could do a Flash movie that isn't terrible.

No, wait, never mind they can't.

Watch this. Then say that again.


Man, that same dude has been voicing Batman for what must be 25 years now.  He's still doing the DC Animated projects, he did the arkham games, he did the old 90's batman cartoons, and I'm sure there twice as much that I've forgotten.  I'm not complaining, he's great for it, I'm just impressed that so many different projects get him involved.
 
2013-02-06 07:47:44 PM

thecpt: Because their only good character is batman?


If that's the high water mark, this is a project that can be drowned in a wet pavement.
 
2013-02-06 07:48:41 PM
Mark, I read Unfunnies. After that I will never take you seriously again. Now go back to filling in your Kick-Ass 3 word balloons with pointless profanity or whatever it is you're doing now.
 
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