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(Talking Points Memo)   Idaho State Senator introduces bill that would encourage more fantasy novels as required high school reading   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 206
    More: Unlikely, fantasy literature, state senators, high schools, the Gem State, Idaho Senate  
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3828 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Feb 2013 at 6:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 02:54:40 PM  
To help the kids speed through their assignments, here's the Cliff Notes for the book:

"Fark you, I got mine".
 
2013-02-06 03:01:56 PM  
Yeah, like High School students need to learn how to be assholes.
 
2013-02-06 03:03:06 PM  
Then I demand he add one more fantasy novel to the curriculum: Robert A. Heinlein's "Job."
 
2013-02-06 03:08:14 PM  
i1223.photobucket.com
/obligatory
 
2013-02-06 03:14:54 PM  

Type_Hard: [i1223.photobucket.com image 395x395]
/obligatory


Try John Rogers, the screenwriter for classics such as Transformers and Catwoman. That sentence may be the most comprehensible thing that he's ever penned, don't steal it from him.
 
2013-02-06 03:17:25 PM  
I've 2 High School daughters who would roll their eyes at having to read 1000 page book that didn't have magic, excitement, characters they could related to or anything else. They'd try to grab some Cliff's Notes somewhere to get through the mess.
 
2013-02-06 03:23:04 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I've 2 High School daughters who would roll their eyes at having to read 1000 page book that didn't have magic, excitement, characters they could related to or anything else. They'd try to grab some Cliff's Notes somewhere to get through the mess.


Cliff Notes and Monarch Notes were what got me through HS literature classes and the multiple "required" books.  Don't get me wrong, I love to read - always have.  But I had 0.00 desire to slog through the "classics", which I found (with few exception) to be utterly horrible.


/My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit
 
2013-02-06 03:35:32 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Nadie_AZ: I've 2 High School daughters who would roll their eyes at having to read 1000 page book that didn't have magic, excitement, characters they could related to or anything else. They'd try to grab some Cliff's Notes somewhere to get through the mess.

Cliff Notes and Monarch Notes were what got me through HS literature classes and the multiple "required" books.  Don't get me wrong, I love to read - always have.  But I had 0.00 desire to slog through the "classics", which I found (with few exception) to be utterly horrible.


/My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit


To be fair, they could read the Harry Potter novels and the Twilight novels in no time flat. They'll struggle through some 'classics' and fly through others. But I highly doubt they'd take interest in a manifesto like this one.
 
2013-02-06 03:39:23 PM  
ten bucks says he hasn't even read it himself.
 
2013-02-06 03:50:18 PM  
The Bible?
 
2013-02-06 03:50:41 PM  
That guy must really hate kids.
 
2013-02-06 04:13:23 PM  

Type_Hard: [i1223.photobucket.com image 395x395]
/obligatory


it is known.
 
2013-02-06 04:22:59 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Nadie_AZ: I've 2 High School daughters who would roll their eyes at having to read 1000 page book that didn't have magic, excitement, characters they could related to or anything else. They'd try to grab some Cliff's Notes somewhere to get through the mess.

Cliff Notes and Monarch Notes were what got me through HS literature classes and the multiple "required" books.  Don't get me wrong, I love to read - always have.  But I had 0.00 desire to slog through the "classics", which I found (with few exception) to be utterly horrible.


/My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit


I agree without entirely, except for Dickens. I love Dickens. But, I understand that it is an acquired taste. It's like cilantro. Also, I'd put Grapes of Wrath on top of any book list.
 
2013-02-06 04:29:55 PM  
So they can become rich and successful and get the fark out of Idaho.
 
2013-02-06 04:31:22 PM  
I can think of no better way to make kids HATE Ayn Rand then to force them to read their way through Atlas Shrugged.

in that light, I approve of this idea.
 
2013-02-06 04:34:04 PM  

what_now: I agree without entirely, except for Dickens. I love Dickens. But, I understand that it is an acquired taste. It's like cilantro. Also, I'd put Grapes of Wrath on top of any book list.


Actually cilantro is genetic. And so is Dickens. Basically if you didn't like David Copperfield, you might not be human
 
2013-02-06 04:35:00 PM  
Reading Atlas Shrugged and turning into an insufferable prick is something you do in college, not high school.  Like having a brief fling with bisexuality.
 
2013-02-06 04:35:44 PM  
anyway more like atlas farted, am I correct
 
2013-02-06 04:39:29 PM  

Type_Hard: [i1223.photobucket.com image 395x395]
/obligatory


I don't think Krugman created that quote.
 
2013-02-06 04:39:57 PM  

Rindred: Then I demand he add one more fantasy novel to the curriculum: Robert A. Heinlein's "Job."


That's a vastly underrated and fascinating book that doesn't get nearly as much respect as Heinlein's other works.
 
wee
2013-02-06 04:48:07 PM  

what_now: But, I understand that it is an acquired taste. It's like cilantro.


Actually, dislike for cilantro is genetic.  A taste for it likely can't be acquired for some people.

I don't know about Rand, since I never read any of her stuff.
 
2013-02-06 04:48:46 PM  
Sounds like this Senator bought a whole lot of "Atlas Shrugged" and "Atlas Shrugged II: Static Electric Looteroo" on DVD and he's looking to cash in with students who'll look to avoid slogging through that dongsneeze.

The other side effect being teenage girls reading the book and thinking "Wow, Bella and Edward were much more realistic and well-written characters than Dagny and Hank, to say nothing of the cartoons that are Ragnar and Galt."
 
2013-02-06 04:50:49 PM  
But I was told by my rightwing friends that indoctrinating children was bad.
 
2013-02-06 04:53:03 PM  

what_now:  I love Dickens. But, I understand that it is an acquired taste. It's like cilantro.


Given the choice, I would rather eat a copy of Bleak House than a sprig of cilantro.
 
2013-02-06 04:55:24 PM  
I love cilantro. Love it! Asian and Mexican food just simply can't be made without it.

I think everyone should be required to try it.
 
2013-02-06 04:59:18 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-06 04:59:51 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: /My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit


To be fair to The Canterbury Tales, you need a good teacher and read it in Middle English. The rape-heavy spat between the Reeve and the Miller is pretty epic. You need a bunch of context the poem itself can't provide, hence the great teacher.

And the Great Gatsby was horrible.
 
2013-02-06 05:03:42 PM  

palladiate: Grand_Moff_Joseph: /My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit

To be fair to The Canterbury Tales, you need a good teacher and read it in Middle English. The rape-heavy spat between the Reeve and the Miller is pretty epic. You need a bunch of context the poem itself can't provide, hence the great teacher.

And the Great Gatsby was horrible.


You know, I can't really criticize you for not liking Gatsby.  Really, books (esp. the classics) are purely matters of taste.  I'm sometimes amazed that others didn't like Gatsby, but OTOH, some folks are outraged that I hated a Tale of Two Cities.  I guess it is what it is, lol.  :)
 
2013-02-06 05:03:46 PM  

vernonFL: I love cilantro. Love it! Asian and Mexican food just simply can't be made without it.

I think everyone should be required to try it.


There's a certain percentage of the population, like 5% or something, for whom cilantro tastes completely disgusting - "like soap," is how it's usually described by those folks.  Unfortunately for me, my wife is one of them.  (In all other ways she's awesome, though, so I find myself capable of suffering through this.)
 
2013-02-06 05:07:55 PM  
This will be a huge influence on the youth.  Just think of all the kids who are crazy about dying in sledding accidents because of Ethan Frome.
 
2013-02-06 05:12:06 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: /My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit


1) dunces? FARK THAT shiat WITH BEA ARTHURS DICK - worst book I ever tried to read
2) brave new world was fine
3) could we stop forcing kids to read crap that they will probably hate and putting them off reading altogether??

FFS all I can remember from "literature" classes (american, english, world) was that I hated every single thing that I was asked to read.
Ok, fine, maybe 1 out of 100 was good to ok.

When I heard from a mother that teachers were banning book reports on Harry Potter, all I could think was that it is time to kill those teachers.
FFS, the kids are excited about a book and want to write a book report and YOUR problem is that all the kids want to do the same book? and all the kids hate your choices??? FARKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

/I wonder how much damage is done during education because THEY KNOW what's best.
/sigh
 
2013-02-06 05:18:44 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: You know, I can't really criticize you for not liking Gatsby.  Really, books (esp. the classics) are purely matters of taste.  I'm sometimes amazed that others didn't like Gatsby, but OTOH, some folks are outraged that I hated a Tale of Two Cities.  I guess it is what it is, lol.  :)


It's not horrible. Heck, without a ton of literary rehabilitation long after Fitzgerald's death did it even become popular. It just bugs me that Daisy is a horrible, shallow, stupid woman, and Nick was in a position to, I don't know, punch Tom in the face, repeatedly. It might be that I can't relate. It's not even like a Greek tragedy that was for the most part unavoidable. It really depends on Daisy being willfully stupid to Tom. Also, it's entirely about stupid relationship problems, and the whole plot just serves to break Nick's soul, which as a fellow Nick, I disapprove.

Also, outside of about three parts, Tale of Two Cities isn't exactly awesome. It's like a better version of Les Miserables, with better characters and themes. Which is to say, still kinda crap.
 
2013-02-06 05:20:12 PM  
"Fartlas Shrugged"

Just casting the net to see if anyone salutes. Not making any claims about it's inherent comic value.
 
2013-02-06 05:20:18 PM  

Weaver95: I can think of no better way to make kids HATE Ayn Rand then to force them to read their way through Atlas Shrugged.

in that light, I approve of this idea.


we have a winner!!

Seriously, the pain and damage caused by trying to force all of the kids to read "cilantro". It took me twenty years to get over school ruining Shakespeare for me.
How many kids never get over it?

I loved picking out books from the scholastic book club. picking out things which I thought I would like. finding new authors and old favorites.
Sure there is always the "broadening ones horizons" argument, but still. shudder.

I wonder what percentage of readers HATED that part of school because they were forced to read the soapy POS, rather than the tasty books.
 
2013-02-06 05:23:08 PM  

namatad: Grand_Moff_Joseph: /My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit

1) dunces? FARK THAT shiat WITH BEA ARTHURS DICK - worst book I ever tried to read
2) brave new world was fine
3) could we stop forcing kids to read crap that they will probably hate and putting them off reading altogether??

FFS all I can remember from "literature" classes (american, english, world) was that I hated every single thing that I was asked to read.
Ok, fine, maybe 1 out of 100 was good to ok.

When I heard from a mother that teachers were banning book reports on Harry Potter, all I could think was that it is time to kill those teachers.
FFS, the kids are excited about a book and want to write a book report and YOUR problem is that all the kids want to do the same book? and all the kids hate your choices??? FARKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

/I wonder how much damage is done during education because THEY KNOW what's best.
/sigh


FWIW, I had a similar reaction when trying to read To Kill a Mockingbird.
 
2013-02-06 05:25:36 PM  

Weaver95: I can think of no better way to make kids HATE Ayn Rand then to force them to read their way through Atlas Shrugged.

in that light, I approve of this idea.


It worked for Officer Barbrady.
 
2013-02-06 05:28:59 PM  
Henceforth, any student displaying the aberrant traits of mercy or compassion shall be beaten publicly until such behavior is renounced by the perpetrator

/a second offense shall result in execution
 
2013-02-06 05:38:50 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: FWIW, I had a similar reaction when trying to read To Kill a Mockingbird


I bet if you picked a 100 random people and had them pick their favorite great book. The one they have reread the most times.
That you would get a list of 50 or more books.
If you took that list of "great" books and had those 100 people rate and rank them, that a large number of those books would be rated TERRIBLE or worst.

On the flip-side, collaborative filtering is awesomeness.
 
2013-02-06 05:54:26 PM  
Ok- using cilantro was a foolish example. I'd like to compare Dickens to mushrooms.

I love mushrooms, but understand why people find them objectionable.

/team cilantro
 
2013-02-06 05:55:21 PM  
Ms. Rand's books Anthem, Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are already on public high school reading lists. (PDF) What is his point?
 
2013-02-06 06:00:44 PM  
In fact, the farking Boise School District already had Ayn Rand's Anthem on its reading list. What de phark is this man's point? That everybody in Idaho should have to read a government-mandated specific fiction novel? Isn't that the very antithesis of libertarian thought?
 
2013-02-06 06:01:53 PM  

sigdiamond2000: "Fartlas Shrugged"

Just casting the net to see if anyone salutes. Not making any claims about it's inherent comic value.


excuse me I believe I already covered that particular base
 
2013-02-06 06:04:01 PM  

Somacandra: In fact, the farking Boise School District already had Ayn Rand's Anthem on its reading list. What de phark is this man's point? That everybody in Idaho should have to read a government-mandated specific fiction novel? Isn't that the very antithesis of libertarian thought?


Yes.  But, the GOP are not libertarians, and at no point in recent history have they shown any evidence to show that they are trying to be either.  In fact, their legislative agenda has been about as far removed from Ayn Rand as the Democrats are.  Only in the GOP's case, they're trying to regulate vaginas and textbooks, instead of business and commerce.
 
2013-02-06 06:15:53 PM  

Jackson Herring: sigdiamond2000: "Fartlas Shrugged" -- Just casting the net to see if anyone salutes. Not making any claims about it's inherent comic value.

excuse me I believe I already covered that particular base


"FARTLAS FARTED"

Now you're both covered.
 
2013-02-06 06:17:15 PM  

Rindred: Then I demand he add one more fantasy novel to the curriculum: Robert A. Heinlein's "Job."


I loved the hell out of Job, but I don't know if I'd recommend prescribing Heinlein as an antidote to Rand.
 
2013-02-06 06:21:21 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: palladiate: Grand_Moff_Joseph: /My bottom 3: Catcher in the Rye, anything by Dickens, Canterbury Tales
//Top 3:  Great Gatsby, Brave New World, Confederacy of Dunces
//dons literary flame-retardant suit

To be fair to The Canterbury Tales, you need a good teacher and read it in Middle English. The rape-heavy spat between the Reeve and the Miller is pretty epic. You need a bunch of context the poem itself can't provide, hence the great teacher.

And the Great Gatsby was horrible.

You know, I can't really criticize you for not liking Gatsby.  Really, books (esp. the classics) are purely matters of taste.  I'm sometimes amazed that others didn't like Gatsby, but OTOH, some folks are outraged that I hated a Tale of Two Cities.  I guess it is what it is, lol.  :)


I have that feeling about The Scarlet Letter. I actually really like Hawthorne, except for that one book which is, of course, the one Hawthorne story that people read. I found it turgid and stuffed with clumsy symbolism. It was my teacher's favorite book. Fortunately, he was the good kind of teacher who liked debating his students so, even though I hated the book, I loved the class.
 
2013-02-06 06:23:00 PM  
Required reading in high school is a tough nut to crack. On the one hand: it's important for young minds to realize where so many of the ideas and themes in modern pop culture originated from. On the other hand most "classics" are soul-suckingly droll and unreadably boring or impenetrable so the kid's just as likely to slag it off. It's like when I see parents carting their obviously uninterested/hostile broodlings through an art museum: if anything, you're forcing them to associate high-class culture with unpleasantness and stunting their intellectual growth.
 
2013-02-06 06:26:38 PM  

Rindred: Then I demand he add one more fantasy novel to the curriculum: Robert A. Heinlein's "Job."


I thought he let it rip in Starship Troopers.
 
2013-02-06 06:26:47 PM  

Jackson Herring: sigdiamond2000: "Fartlas Shrugged"

Just casting the net to see if anyone salutes. Not making any claims about it's inherent comic value.

excuse me I believe I already covered that particular base


Gentlemen please. There's plenty of farts to go around.
 
2013-02-06 06:27:33 PM  

Somacandra: Ms. Rand's books Anthem, Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are already on public high school reading lists. (PDF) What is his point?


He'd like to require students to read the book and be tested on it. The list you link to is an approved list of books that are appropriate for the age group.
 
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