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(Lafayette Advertiser)   The city of Memphis votes to rename three city parks that honored the Confederacy and its leaders, including one named after the founder of the KKK. Sadly, even in this day and age, some people have a problem with that   (theadvertiser.com) divider line 589
    More: Interesting, KKK, Confederacy, Memphis, Sons of Confederate Veterans, diamond, Jefferson Davis Park  
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7025 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2013 at 1:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 08:37:50 PM  

Meesterjojo: Look, the people voted, I know it's a strange concept for what appears to be most of the mudrakers here on FARK, but this is what is known as "Democracy", aka: You can't always get your way, little one.


Perhaps someone should have informed the southern states of this before they performed a nation-sundering temper tantrum.
 
2013-02-06 08:46:37 PM  

Langdon Alger: why don't cities just name their parks properly so you know what you're in for. Prostitution Park, Methamphetamine Park, Panhandlers Park, Buttf*ck Park....I think you can get the idea.


Winner! I vote thusly.
 
2013-02-06 08:54:13 PM  

KenShabby: You can't get much closer to Satan than Nathan Bedford Forrest, but he was one of the best cavalry commanders to ever live.  You have to give the murderous, slave trading, son of a biatch that.


True statement.
 
2013-02-06 09:06:54 PM  

Farce-Side: Dr Dreidel: "A colloquial term that could mean anything from 2 to 7-8."

I've always thought of a few as 3-5.  A couple was what I always used for 2, and anything above 5 was several. But then again, I'm just a dumb southerner, what do I know?

/Not that you aren't right.


I think a few depends on the size of the whole, too. A few can be more than you think. There are ±240,000 United States Marines.
 
2013-02-06 09:08:38 PM  

Mrtraveler01: xander450: what in the hell?! Fark turns "post" into "Boobies"?!? Why??

Only if the word that precedes it is "first"



I like boobies.

First, during and post.


/Boobies
 
2013-02-06 09:24:58 PM  

Trixie212: You know, I live 5 minutes away from the Memphis city limits...yes, in Mississippi (Lord help me, right?) and I love it here.  Is it perfect?  Hell no but I'd be willing to bet that where you live has issues as well.  I know everytime I see a Fark headline about Memphis, I can expect to see two things:  1.  Lots of herpa derpa doo about the Civil War (but, but slavery *cosmic eyeroll) and 2.  Dro and his shoulder chip are going to make an appearance.

Yeah, there's a crime problem.  Yeah, there are some racial problems.  Yeah, there are economic and social problems and probably less of all the above than where many of you live.  I am the only white person in my whole office.  My boss and all of my coworkers are black and we all get along great.  Who would've thought that was even possible in the dirty South?  I mean, Southerners are racist, backwards thinking rednecks who only know how to drink beer and talk about the Civil War, right?  Is everybody that lives in Memphis going to love it?  Again, hell no...but there are those of us who do.  Why?  The people are pretty great actually.  I can spend the day in town and hear everyone I meet say, "Hey y'all".  Thank you"  "Yes ma'am".  "Have a great day".  Or maybe I hear those things because that's the way I speak to everyone I see.

Believe it or not, all of us don't care about reliving the Civil War.  Many of us just enjoy living in Memphis because of the music, the barbecue, the sweet tea, the riverboat rides, the zoo, Graceland, Beale Street (during the day), riding the sky rail to Mud Island, and on and on ad nauseum.  Nobody is making anybody live here, visit here or even drive through here.  If you don't like Memphis, stay your ass at home where everything is far superior.


Lived in Oxford 20 of the last 22 years. Can't wait to go back. Wish I was there now... Memphis in May FTW...
 
2013-02-06 09:25:26 PM  
I'm actually amazed at how civil (no pun intended) this thread has been - not a single southerner has said "bless you heart"

/was tempted to, though, to mr. "sweet tea sucks"
 
2013-02-06 09:48:34 PM  

keylock71: dryknife: Steve Cropper

[img2.timeinc.net image 320x240]

"If the shiat fits, wear it!"


That's Duck Dunn, douchenozzle

/Finally! Something in this thread I can get irate about!
 
2013-02-06 10:14:36 PM  

oh_please: /1776 was one of the greatest musicals ever


I was Lyman Hall. The guy who sang the rum song was such a good actor he either got cheered or jeered every night. It just depended on the crowd. He was such a convincing guy. Strike party, he's dragging me away from the young honeys who were in the orchestra pit to do a bowl outside. Tells me he's gay. I wanted to smack him. He had previously torn me away from a cute fat chick while we were filming a movie because she and I were making too much noise when they were filming a scene nearby. I thought he was her boyfriend, so stayed away from her. Good weed, good actor and good friend. He was on Buffy. He played the lobster.
 
2013-02-06 10:46:49 PM  
Let us add a modification to the existing names seperated by a hypen.  Nathen B. Forrest park would become Nathen B Forrest-Mass Murder park, Confederate park would become Confederate-Loser park, and Jefferson Davis park would become Jefferson Davis-Traitor park.  Yeah, everyone wins!
 
2013-02-06 11:21:44 PM  
I can report from Memphis that the butthurt over this is getting epic.
 
2013-02-06 11:26:32 PM  
Only in the United States are traitors so revered.
 
2013-02-06 11:42:27 PM  

pion: Only in the United States are traitors so revered.



Divergent interests.

"When in the course of human events...."
 
2013-02-07 12:18:32 AM  

pion: Only in the United States are traitors so revered.


Remember, remember the Fifth of November.

Scots wha hae wi Wallace bled,
Scots wham Bruce has aften led

See also: Bonnie Prince Charlie, Henry IV, Oliver Cromwell, pretty much every Irish hero you can name, etc. etc.

/stupid blanket statements are stupid
 
2013-02-07 12:39:21 AM  
I guess their new name is going to be dark park......or wigger center
 
2013-02-07 12:40:36 AM  
forgot to add......  leave it to memphrica....
 
2013-02-07 01:01:35 AM  

Galloping Galoshes: All2morrowsparTs: Noam Chimpsky: There are still US cities States named after British royalty.

Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas, Delaware, and Georgia.

Still?  Are you proposing they change?


No, but I think it's interesting that the Americans back then didn't change them after the war. Oh, and then another war in 1812. But I guess your history's your history and there ain't no use running from it. There might be a lesson in that.
 
2013-02-07 01:20:16 AM  

Mike_1962: hdhale: Nabb1: KenShabby: Nabb1: oldfarthenry: Ya know - I "could" point out that the star-spangled banner was a poem about a war you guys LOST!

/tries to deflect heat off them-there southern folk

You could, but you'd be wrong.

Yeah, that was the War of 1812.

Yes, he brings that up a lot. A whole lot. I expect him to post a pic of Canadian soldiers burning the White House any moment now.

The War of 1812 was essentially a draw, though the Americans achieved some decisive victories against native tribes in the South and Midwest, on Lake Erie, and against British raids at Baltimore and New Orleans.  More importantly, British backing of native tribes in the US ended and that had a major impact on the Indian Wars in what was then the far west and elsewhere.  The British on the other hand lost influence and never threatened the US again, though they did see fit to arm the Confederates from time to time.

A lot is made of the invasion of Canada from New York, and how the Americans failed to take Canada, but in reality the US simply did not bring its 'A' game to the fight and it showed.  Our best commanders were in the west and the south.  As for the forrays of the British into the US, the raid on Washington was just that, a raid.  Not even the British commander in his wet dreams could image taking Washington and holding it and forcing the US to surrender.

FYI: The raid on Washington was motivated by the Americans burning of what would become Toronto (the capital of Upper Canada).  It was carried by British regulars not their Canadian colonial allies.

Canadians like to thump their chest about how they "whipped the Americans", but in reality without the British fleet, British resources, and British troops and armaments, you'd all eating Dunkin' Donuts not Tim Hortons, your alphabet would end in ZEE not ZED, and a maple leaf would be found on a maple tree or laying on the ground waiting for a rake.

Much of what you say is correct, sorta. The horseshiat about the invasion attempts not being the "A" game smacks of revisionist sour grapes in a large way. The americans were repulsed primarily by native and Canadian troops. Most of the Brits at that point were busy in Europe.
Of course we had the support of the British. We were a semi independent colony at the time.
You are absolutely correct in that the raid on Washington was a British action, not Canadian.
The success against the natives in several campaigns was by no means always decisive, but numbers and technology won out, paving the way for "Manifest Destiny". Not a heritage without its very considerable dark side. Finally, the Battle of New Orleans, for which many Americans hold such (militarily justified) pride was a tragic mistake on both parts as the war was already over when it occurred. It had no strategic value whatsoever. So, yeah. History is inevitably biased, but you might try reading some of the history written by the other side and by third party observers. It helps with the whole balanced viewpoint. Essentially the war was a draw. The US failed in its territorial ambitions, but succeeded on its trade ambitions. Ironically it would have gotten those anyway with the war in Europe ending. In the end the war was utterly pointless.


The US attempted to invade Canada expecting the citizens to rise up in dig fiancé of the Empire. The French any English inhabitants fought off everything the US could muster. Admitatly some of the US troops deserted rather than fight their northern neighbours; however, Great Britan was not supportive of the fledgling colony but more than willing to claim the victories of the inhabitants. The naval battles that were conducted by British veterans of the Nepolianic wars were a draw perhaps ... But when the Canadians were involved, America was soundly sent packing. The egotistic and greedy ambitions of the US founding fathers, otherwise known as manifest destiny, the god given right of US sovereignty over North America ended with the formation of a unified Canada. Not American, not dependent on France or Britain for support, but defined by the people of Canada who fought for their own self determination. The false pretence the US entered a war of colonialism, impressment of British deserters on US naval ships, continued after the war. Canada as a Counry was born. The First Nations paid a terrible price. US historians were unable to completely rewrite the battle, and Canadians try to apologize for kicking so much butt. I live in the largest French Canadian communities outside of Quebec, settled by many of the soldiers of 1812. The Empire did not care about supporting Canada, or the US . Nepolian was the enemy, egotistic and greed motivated US leaders convinced of their own god given right to the whole of North America had their ambitions crushed.

Call it a draw, call it a moral victory for the fledgling US over a dominate world power, call it whatever you wish to apease. From a military standpoint it was a loss to the inhabitants of Canada and the unifying transformation that galvanized a country of vastly different heritages and backgrounds, without the need for revolution or treason, simply by defending themselves over a larger and aggressive foe.
 
2013-02-07 01:26:38 AM  
Or call it a drunken misspelled rant of a post. It's still revisionist history when called a draw.
 
2013-02-07 01:27:04 AM  
I wonder, could a state like Georgia change its name today because it doesn't want the association with British royalty? Could they change it to, oh I don't know, "Lee" to honor Robert E. Lee?  I think the rest of the US would be powerless to stop them. How can you demand they keep their old British royalty name?
 
2013-02-07 01:50:22 AM  

Noam Chimpsky: I wonder, could a state like Georgia change its name today because it doesn't want the association with British royalty? Could they change it to, oh I don't know, "Lee" to honor Robert E. Lee?  I think the rest of the US would be powerless to stop them. How can you demand they keep their old British royalty name?


Look - I know you're trying hard, but I just don't think it's possible for you (or anyone for that matter) to put in a performance stupid enough to rival dukwbutter in this thread. Sometimes it's best to just tip your hat, acknowledge that you've been outdone, and wait for another chance in another thread.
 
2013-02-07 04:58:15 AM  

Crewmannumber6: keylock71: dryknife: Steve Cropper

[img2.timeinc.net image 320x240]

"If the shiat fits, wear it!"

That's Duck Dunn, douchenozzle

/Finally! Something in this thread I can get irate about!


Yeah, no shiat, assface... He played with Steve Cropper every now and again.
 
2013-02-07 06:47:30 AM  

Biological Ali: Noam Chimpsky: I wonder, could a state like Georgia change its name today because it doesn't want the association with British royalty? Could they change it to, oh I don't know, "Lee" to honor Robert E. Lee?  I think the rest of the US would be powerless to stop them. How can you demand they keep their old British royalty name?

Look - I know you're trying hard, but I just don't think it's possible for you (or anyone for that matter) to put in a performance stupid enough to rival dukwbutter in this thread. Sometimes it's best to just tip your hat, acknowledge that you've been outdone, and wait for another chance in another thread.


You sound traumatized.

I think it's an interesting question because a state could change its name to something provocative to spit in the eye of the rest of the country and they'd be powerless to stop it. This will happen within twenty years, but it will be New Mexico changing its name to Nuevo Mexico.
 
2013-02-07 07:34:33 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: drumfreek: I love how most everybody here uses the typical Southern stereotype. All southern whites are racist. For you guys, I have seen some dumb motherfarkers in my life, but you take the cake.

Nonsense. You forgot that southerners are fat too, so they are clearly the ones that have absconded with the cake.


The cake is a lie.

/Am I first?
 
2013-02-07 07:55:40 AM  

2farknfunny: Let us add a modification to the existing names seperated by a hypen.  Nathen B. Forrest park would become Nathen B Forrest-Mass Murder park, Confederate park would become Confederate-Loser park, and Jefferson Davis park would become Jefferson Davis-Traitor park.  Yeah, everyone wins!


Now, don't be dissin' Jefferson Davis too much. From what I've been able to read, he was the biggest factor involved in the Union victory and consequent freeing of Southern slaves during the war.
Note for future generations- if you expect to have to fight a war, pick a leader who is at least capable of getting along with his own side.
 
2013-02-07 09:00:52 AM  

cynicalbastard: 2farknfunny: Let us add a modification to the existing names seperated by a hypen.  Nathen B. Forrest park would become Nathen B Forrest-Mass Murder park, Confederate park would become Confederate-Loser park, and Jefferson Davis park would become Jefferson Davis-Traitor park.  Yeah, everyone wins!

Now, don't be dissin' Jefferson Davis too much. From what I've been able to read, he was the biggest factor involved in the Union victory and consequent freeing of Southern slaves during the war.
Note for future generations- if you expect to have to fight a war, pick a leader who is at least capable of getting along with his own side.


The way Shelby Foote tells it, it wasn't so much Davis' fault (although he had pretty crappy people skills) as it was the fault of the Confederate Congress. When a major faction of your government are known as "impossiblists," you're going to have trouble no matter who you are. The Confederate government was basically a collection of deranged teabaggers.
 
2013-02-07 09:22:14 AM  

mbillips: cynicalbastard: 2farknfunny: Let us add a modification to the existing names seperated by a hypen.  Nathen B. Forrest park would become Nathen B Forrest-Mass Murder park, Confederate park would become Confederate-Loser park, and Jefferson Davis park would become Jefferson Davis-Traitor park.  Yeah, everyone wins!

Now, don't be dissin' Jefferson Davis too much. From what I've been able to read, he was the biggest factor involved in the Union victory and consequent freeing of Southern slaves during the war.
Note for future generations- if you expect to have to fight a war, pick a leader who is at least capable of getting along with his own side.

The way Shelby Foote tells it, it wasn't so much Davis' fault (although he had pretty crappy people skills) as it was the fault of the Confederate Congress. When a major faction of your government are known as "impossiblists," you're going to have trouble no matter who you are. The Confederate government was basically a collection of deranged teabaggers.


Yeah, I've read Shelby's take on Davis. And Davis seems to have been a highly principled, honourable gentleman. Which is exactly what the South DIDN'T need at the time. Nosirree, they needed an honest-to-god, all-things-to-all-men, able to speak out of both sides of his mouth and a choice of any other orifice simultaneously, as sneaky as a coyote with raven DNA thrown in, genuine Politician of the lowest snake-in-the-grass order to have any chance at all.
 
2013-02-07 09:35:42 AM  

cynicalbastard: 2farknfunny: Let us add a modification to the existing names seperated by a hypen.  Nathen B. Forrest park would become Nathen B Forrest-Mass Murder park, Confederate park would become Confederate-Loser park, and Jefferson Davis park would become Jefferson Davis-Traitor park.  Yeah, everyone wins!

Now, don't be dissin' Jefferson Davis too much. From what I've been able to read, he was the biggest factor involved in the Union victory and consequent freeing of Southern slaves during the war.
Note for future generations- if you expect to have to fight a war, pick a leader who is at least capable of getting along with his own side.


Exactly, Jefferson Davis was the architect of the U.S. Capitol building. Should we tear it down or remove the statue of him from Statuary Hall? No. It is as much a part of our history as the South's.

http://www.aoc.gov/capitol-hill/national-statuary-hall-collection/je ff erson-davis
 
2013-02-07 11:03:54 AM  

GRCooper: pion: Only in the United States are traitors so revered.

Remember, remember the Fifth of November.

Scots wha hae wi Wallace bled,
Scots wham Bruce has aften led

See also: Bonnie Prince Charlie, Henry IV, Oliver Cromwell, pretty much every Irish hero you can name, etc. etc.

/stupid blanket statements are stupid


I'm pretty sure Guy Fawkes isn't revered on Guye Fawkes day. Don't they *burn him in effigy*?
 
2013-02-07 11:51:48 AM  

cynicalbastard: And soon, we will have the "And the War between the States had nothin' to do with Slavery, it was all about State's Rights and Import taxes!" crowd...


It was.

Your ignorance is showing ... also, Nathan Bedford is my hero.
 
2013-02-07 11:58:56 AM  

Felgraf: GRCooper: pion: Only in the United States are traitors so revered.

Remember, remember the Fifth of November.

Scots wha hae wi Wallace bled,
Scots wham Bruce has aften led

See also: Bonnie Prince Charlie, Henry IV, Oliver Cromwell, pretty much every Irish hero you can name, etc. etc.

/stupid blanket statements are stupid

I'm pretty sure Guy Fawkes isn't revered on Guye Fawkes day. Don't they *burn him in effigy*?


"Fawkes subsequently appeared as "essentially an action hero" in children's books "
"Guy Fawkes is sometimes toasted as "the last man to enter Parliament with honest intentions"

2 minutes on Wikipedia.

But, fine, if you think that invalidates the point, replace Guy Fawkes with Julius Caesar.

/When I lived in London, Guy Fawkes day was a party.  I think they were burning a lot of Maggies in effigy that year.  "The Guy" doesn't always equal "Guy Fawkes".
 
2013-02-07 01:55:01 PM  

mbillips: cynicalbastard: 2farknfunny: Let us add a modification to the existing names seperated by a hypen.  Nathen B. Forrest park would become Nathen B Forrest-Mass Murder park, Confederate park would become Confederate-Loser park, and Jefferson Davis park would become Jefferson Davis-Traitor park.  Yeah, everyone wins!

Now, don't be dissin' Jefferson Davis too much. From what I've been able to read, he was the biggest factor involved in the Union victory and consequent freeing of Southern slaves during the war.
Note for future generations- if you expect to have to fight a war, pick a leader who is at least capable of getting along with his own side.

The way Shelby Foote tells it, it wasn't so much Davis' fault (although he had pretty crappy people skills) as it was the fault of the Confederate Congress. When a major faction of your government are known as "impossiblists," you're going to have trouble no matter who you are. The Confederate government was basically a collection of deranged teabaggers.


Foote was a great historian and writer. However his work does have certain notable blind spots where he is a bit less than objective. Nathan Bedford Forrest is the most notable, but Jefferson Davis is not far behind. I recall that he goes on at length in sympathy for Davis when recounting that Davis was put in leg shackles while under arrest after the war, and how terrible it was to do that indiginity to a man of honor like Davis. When I read that section my first thought was "Gee, I wonder if Davis ever gave a thought to how shackling his slaves in the exact same manner affected their dignity". It is hard to feel any sympathy for Davis or his "honor" after thinking that way.
 
2013-02-07 02:02:46 PM  

George Babbitt: Exactly, Jefferson Davis was the architect of the U.S. Capitol building.


Do you get any facts right?
 
2013-02-07 02:07:53 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: mbillips: cynicalbastard: 2farknfunny: Let us add a modification to the existing names seperated by a hypen.  Nathen B. Forrest park would become Nathen B Forrest-Mass Murder park, Confederate park would become Confederate-Loser park, and Jefferson Davis park would become Jefferson Davis-Traitor park.  Yeah, everyone wins!

Now, don't be dissin' Jefferson Davis too much. From what I've been able to read, he was the biggest factor involved in the Union victory and consequent freeing of Southern slaves during the war.
Note for future generations- if you expect to have to fight a war, pick a leader who is at least capable of getting along with his own side.

The way Shelby Foote tells it, it wasn't so much Davis' fault (although he had pretty crappy people skills) as it was the fault of the Confederate Congress. When a major faction of your government are known as "impossiblists," you're going to have trouble no matter who you are. The Confederate government was basically a collection of deranged teabaggers.

Foote was a great historian and writer. However his work does have certain notable blind spots where he is a bit less than objective. Nathan Bedford Forrest is the most notable, but Jefferson Davis is not far behind. I recall that he goes on at length in sympathy for Davis when recounting that Davis was put in leg shackles while under arrest after the war, and how terrible it was to do that indiginity to a man of honor like Davis. When I read that section my first thought was "Gee, I wonder if Davis ever gave a thought to how shackling his slaves in the exact same manner affected their dignity". It is hard to feel any sympathy for Davis or his "honor" after thinking that way.


I think that Davis did at least come close to considering that. When he was in charge of expanding the U.S. Capitol building, there were several submissions for the statue of Freedom that would top the rotunda, one had upon it's head a Liberty or Phrygian cap affixed to it. Davis saw a distinction(again right or wrong not the point) between the ways in which slavery manifests when he said "American liberty is original and not the liberty of the freed slave".
 
2013-02-07 05:47:02 PM  

dukwbutter: CheekyMonkey: A good point for a different discussion. It, however, doesn't address my original question, unless you're trying to say that subjugating Africans was OK by virtue of the fact that we'd already subjugated the Native Americans.

CheekyMonkey, you seem to miss somehow that the North had slaves also.  Not only that, but the Civil war wasn't about slavery.  Lincoln told the South they could keep their slaves if they'd just stay in the Union.  Also, the Emancipation freed only the slaves in the South, not the Slaves in the North. The more you know. ;)

Not really so cheeky now are we?  More like a politically correct fool.


Except the North doesn't celebrate the lives of people only famous for slavery, treason, and hate.

If you think the north is as racist as the south, you are crazy. The vitriol goes both ways, down south, at an alarming frequency and magnitude.
 
2013-02-07 08:56:35 PM  

dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?


If your heritage includes slavery and institutionalized racism? Yes.
 
2013-02-07 09:42:26 PM  

VendorXeno: GoldSpider: If it's "just a street sign", why expend so much effort and emotion to remove them?

Ah, I see your confusion. You can't distinguish between a trivial monument and historical facts. That's why when people who don't like a trivial monument to someone or something they don't respect replace it you think it's somehow able to erase all the history about the person that monument is dedicated to.

/hand-holding people through the simplest of thought processes...


There's a difference between whitewashing history and removing a monument to a psychopath. Hardly is the intent or actual result going to be forgetting about slavery. Don't be obtuse.
 
2013-02-07 09:46:37 PM  

dukwbutter: Dr. Whoof: dukwbutter: And to look at a group of people and say that they have nothing to be proud of.

They have plenty to be proud of. The Confederacy is not one of them. The Civil War is not one of them. The Confederate flag is not one of them.

We are proud of every one of these things.  You have no right to tell Southerners what they are allowed to be proud of. fark you and the horse you rode in on.


I'm proud of generations of racism, slaughter, and slavery.


What.
 
2013-02-07 11:45:16 PM  

El Dudereno: dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?

If your heritage includes slavery and institutionalized racism? Yes.


I'm going to ask this again..just because I'm really truely interested and nobody has given me an answer....but..whose isn't? Northern heritage includes "slavery and institutionalized racism". Pretty much every peoples had at least one of these two qualities and the ones that didn't didn't last long enough for people today to credit them as being a part of their heritage.

I'm guessing that 99.99% of people's heritages include both racism and slavery.
 
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