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(Lafayette Advertiser)   The city of Memphis votes to rename three city parks that honored the Confederacy and its leaders, including one named after the founder of the KKK. Sadly, even in this day and age, some people have a problem with that   (theadvertiser.com) divider line 589
    More: Interesting, KKK, Confederacy, Memphis, Sons of Confederate Veterans, diamond, Jefferson Davis Park  
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7013 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2013 at 1:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 02:19:10 PM

mysticcat: This will surely solve the palpable racial tension that permeates the city.  And I know lots of people, including, sadly, some relatives, who will have a big problem with this

I went to med school there, so here is one of my many cool story bro type stories:

The main med school building abuts Nathan Bedford Forrest park where there is a giant statue of the general atop his trusty steed, a virtual ad for Memphis' backward racial attitudes. There are also several benches scattered about, on one of which two tourists were shot point blank in the head the week before I started classes.  Thug life.


Spent a couple weeks there when my cousin got married in 2003.  I don't think I've seen any more blatant racism from blacks or whites anywhere else on the planet.
 
2013-02-06 02:20:38 PM

doczoidberg: Friggin' South.

You bastards have nothing to be proud of. Understand???


fark you, carpetbagger.

More bourbon, barbecue, and hush puppies for me us.
 
2013-02-06 02:21:02 PM
Maybe we should start naming things after British Reveloutionary War Generals in New England and American-Mexican Mexican Generals in the Southwest.

How about the Benedict Arnaold Memorial Park.
 
2013-02-06 02:21:53 PM
Forrest did not start the KKK that existed in the 1950's. The klan he founded died out fairly quickly.
 
2013-02-06 02:22:48 PM

dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?


They have nothing to be proud of. They picked a fight with their moral, technological, and intellectual betters and got their asses handed to them.
 
2013-02-06 02:23:03 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Forrest did not start the KKK that existed in the 1950's. The klan he founded died out fairly quickly.


Well that hardly deserves a park naming.
 
2013-02-06 02:23:07 PM
Hey, has Brick-House been in this thread yet to remind us that Democrat Robert Byrd remained a proud racist and Klansman all the way to the end of his life?
 
2013-02-06 02:23:16 PM

max_pooper: dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?

They can be proud all they want but they shouldn't be surprised when people correctly point that their "heritage" is deeply rooted in destructive racism.


I don't think that was an issue back then.
 
2013-02-06 02:23:28 PM

All2morrowsparTs: Maybe we should start naming things after British Reveloutionary War Generals in New England and American-Mexican Mexican Generals in the Southwest.

How about the Benedict Arnaold Memorial Park.


He's already got a style of eggs.
 
2013-02-06 02:23:59 PM

doczoidberg: Friggin' South.

You bastards have nothing to be proud of. Understand???


No you don't understand. You cannot rewrite history and the men who served did so honorably. They were Americans and you don't have to agree with their cause to honor them for doing what they saw as their duty. I just love how Northerners pretend they didn't buy and sell slaves or that every southerner was a slave owner. Ignorant tool.

I grew up in the South. I am white and lived in a black neighborhood. I saw a lot of parents tell their kids to call me names and fight me because I was a white child. I never saw a white, southern person doing that. So you keep on making up that alternate reality you think the south is today.
 
2013-02-06 02:24:00 PM

All2morrowsparTs: Maybe we should start naming things after British Reveloutionary War Generals in New England and American-Mexican Mexican Generals in the Southwest.

How about the Benedict Arnaold Memorial Park.


upload.wikimedia.org
/hot
 
2013-02-06 02:24:09 PM

CheekyMonkey: dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?

Remind me again what they have to be proud of?  I mean, aside for the systematic subjugation, oppression and dehumanization of a group of people with darker skin, of course...


Well... have you accomplished that? So they are up on you then mister fancy pants.
 
2013-02-06 02:24:21 PM

LowbrowDeluxe: Okay.  I'll bite.  How many of them have parks named after the founder of the KKK?


Didn't they just rename it?  Anyway, it was a vestige of the pre-civil rights era.
 
2013-02-06 02:24:22 PM
Have you seen this day and age, Subby?
 
2013-02-06 02:25:08 PM
I'll only accept Confederate names and the Klan if the park name insults them.

The KKK Are Racist Shiatbags Park

Confederates Lost The War Park

Haha Stonewall Jackson Was Shot By His Own Men Park

/is extremely unfunny
 
2013-02-06 02:25:21 PM

Mija: No you don't understand. You cannot rewrite history and the men who served did so honorably. They were Americans and you don't have to agree with their cause to honor them for doing what they saw as their duty. I just love how Northerners pretend they didn't buy and sell slaves or that every southerner was a slave owner. Ignorant tool.


Well, to be fair, they were trying really hard not to be.

There is little of pride in the revolution, Jim Crow, or the decades of slavery before or racism after.

There is a lot of great food, music, and bourbon though. Enough to be proud of.
 
2013-02-06 02:25:34 PM

Brick-House: How about naming one the Robert Byrd Memorial Park?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x275]


Or how about Strom Thurman Park?
You know the guy who birth a child from a black women as he campaigned to take her rights away.

/At least Byrd recanted his beliefs and worked for civil rights.
 
2013-02-06 02:25:39 PM
Maybe now the city council can do something about the super-aggressive panhandling tat takes place on Beale St.  I should be able to sit at a bar without some guy asking me for money.
 
2013-02-06 02:25:45 PM
The sanitization of history continues.
 
2013-02-06 02:26:34 PM

Brick-House: Dr Dreidel: Brick-House: oh wait...

[www.publiusforum.com image 400x324]

Oh, come on, you disingenuous farkhead, finish his life in quotes:

I apologized a thousand times ... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened.

That's from 2005. So by all means - continue slandering a man who has offered endless apology for the sins of his youth. Just like Jesus would want.

// also, he's been dead for 2.5 years already, and there are plenty of living racists in Congress, if your ire is that up about it
// or, regale us with your best Ted Kennedy jokes; and you probably have a good zinger about Inouye, too

apology you say...


[1.bp.blogspot.com image 275x350]


Hmmm. So any apology is rendered moot if a magazine catering to the purportedly-offended population objects? I have to stay mad at Sarah Silverman because the OU still doesn't like that she said hurtful things about Jews a year ago?

If you have arguments that back up a reason to hate on Robert Byrd this long after he's died - some piece of racist legislation he authored/signed, some big racist thing he's done, SOMETHING beyond statements older than my dad and which have more gravity than the apology.

// really, all that cover does is show that Ebony is just as callous as you (and again, it takes a real Christian to ignore someone's apology)
// although without reading whatever story ran along with that image (assuming it's not shooped), they may have policy objections
// "policy" objections, not "he was in the Klan 60 years ago" objections
 
das
2013-02-06 02:26:36 PM

MCStymie: So...what would the crime rate look like on Nathan Bedford Forrest Avenue?


About the same as on MLK Drive.
 
2013-02-06 02:26:46 PM
He wasn't the founder of the KKK, only a member.
 
2013-02-06 02:26:50 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Mid_mo_mad_man: Forrest did not start the KKK that existed in the 1950's. The klan he founded died out fairly quickly.

Well that hardly deserves a park naming.




Being a brilliant military commander does. Btw the federal armies did not defeat Lee. Northern manufacturing & the USA Navy did
 
2013-02-06 02:27:48 PM

cynicalbastard: And soon, we will have the "And the War between the States had nothin' to do with Slavery, it was all about State's Rights and Import taxes!" crowd...


Will they be followed by the "Islam is a religion of peace" crowd?

/KKK & Islam = death cults
 
2013-02-06 02:27:56 PM
As a Memphian, I never understood why we had some many confederate themed parks.  I always figured, when you lose the war, you don't get to fly your flag.

Also, from what I've read, Forrest wanted to be buried "with his men", which by the way he originally was.  He was buried in Elmwood Cemetary with other confederate soldiers.  This was what he wanted.  If the Sons of Confederate Veterans really wanted to honor him, they never would have dug him up and put him where he is today.

Confederate Park was put there in 1964.  You can guess what the city was going through at that time.  Naming a park that was nothing more than a slap in the face to black Memphians.

Jefferson Davis Park was named in 1930.  This nothing more than a tip of the hat to the Jim Crow ideology.

If these parks had been named immediately after the Civil War had ended, it would be one thing --- still silly in today's world, but understandable that they were named as such IF that were the case.  But it's not the case.  These parks were named WAY after the Civil War and they were done so to make political statements.

I know lots of people who have huge problems with the renaming of the parks.  I think it is LONG overdue.  It's embarassing as hell to have the nice, technilogically advanced University of Tennessee School of Medicine right next to the backward thinking Forrest Park.

I've also heard lots of folks around here argue that he became very "black friendly" in his later years.  That doesn't change what he did in his earlier years.  It's an insult to give him a pass.  (Yes, it's also an insult to have given Robert Byrd and George Wallace a pass as well, but I digress.)

And to say that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery is a joke.  Of the thirteen state that seceded, eleven mention slavery as a reason for secession in their letters of secession.  Of those eleven , eight mention it in the first paragraph.  Of those eight, four mention it in the first sentence.

And Memphians wonder why we can't attract more industry here.

Just my rambling thoughts.
 
2013-02-06 02:28:02 PM
Where have I seen this before? Oh yeah...

t1.gstatic.com

I figured the revised flag was a little less offensive than the original...

/art imitates life again.
 
2013-02-06 02:28:16 PM
 
2013-02-06 02:28:17 PM
Reminds me of the South Park Flag debate.
 
2013-02-06 02:28:20 PM

Fano: They have a big statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest in town, which should be a clue about race relations in Memphis.


You guys are pikers--here in Richmond we have a whole street of Conferderate generals' statues. Oh--and Arthur Ashe, whose statue has its back to the others. It's quite interesting to watch people at once want to glorify Richmond's past as the capital of the Confederacy and kind of sweep it under the rug that Richmond used to be a huge slave market too.

CSS--last year my husband and I decided to play tourist at home and go to the Museum of the Confederacy, which has Jefferson Davis' house included. The guy who led the house tour was black and going on about its great history. I thought it would be like a Jewish guy leading tours of Auschwitz and saying "wow, those Nazis sure had the right idea, huh?"
 
2013-02-06 02:28:26 PM

das: MCStymie: So...what would the crime rate look like on Nathan Bedford Forrest Avenue?

About the same as on MLK Drive.


I, for one, have visions of trailer-rowhomes, loud country music blaring at all hours, and tricked-out pickup trucks.
 
2013-02-06 02:28:42 PM

Noam Chimpsky: There are still US cities States named after British royalty.

 
2013-02-06 02:29:45 PM

All2morrowsparTs: Noam Chimpsky: There are still US cities States named after British royalty.


A fair number of which were briefly in the CSA.
 
2013-02-06 02:29:50 PM

dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?


You celebrate treason as heritage?
 
2013-02-06 02:29:51 PM
I would be offended if public places were named after racists today, but not when they are historical. I see nothing good about hiding the south's ugly history. I would add plaques to the park describing who it was named for, why, and what our society has learned since then. My six year old can tell you a bit about the history of slavery and civil rights in this country and how many similar changes still lie ahead.

Besides, changing their celebrated racist heroes into PC conversation pieces would piss them off more.
 
2013-02-06 02:30:17 PM

CheekyMonkey: dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?

Remind me again what they have to be proud of?  I mean, aside for the systematic subjugation, oppression and dehumanization of a group of people with darker skin, of course...


So, the same thing the rest of the country has to be proud of then?  (Native Americans ring a bell?)
 
2013-02-06 02:30:48 PM

Marisyana: I thought it would be like a Jewish guy leading tours of Auschwitz and saying "wow, those Nazis sure had the right idea, huh?"


A pay check is a pay check is a pay check.

/i couldn't do it, wel.. if i was starving....
 
2013-02-06 02:31:11 PM
at  least forrest sounds like a good loser.  tldr: suck it up, we lost. you'll get over it.

farewell letter to troops (wiki)

Civil war, such as you have just passed through naturally engenders feelings of animosity, hatred, and revenge. It is our duty to divest ourselves of all such feelings; and as far as it is in our power to do so, to cultivate friendly feelings towards those with whom we have so long contended, and heretofore so widely, but honestly, differed. Neighborhood feuds, personal animosities, and private differences should be blotted out; and, when you return home, a manly, straightforward course of conduct will secure the respect of your enemies. Whatever your responsibilities may be to Government, to society, or to individuals meet them like men.

The attempt made to establish a separate and independent Confederation has failed; but the consciousness of having done your duty faithfully, and to the end, will, in some measure, repay for the hardships you have undergone. In bidding you farewell, rest assured that you carry with you my best wishes for your future welfare and happiness. Without, in any way, referring to the merits of the Cause in which we have been engaged, your courage and determination, as exhibited on many hard-fought fields, has elicited the respect and admiration of friend and foe. And I now cheerfully and gratefully acknowledge my indebtedness to the officers and men of my command whose zeal, fidelity and unflinching bravery have been the great source of my past success in arms.

I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue. You have been good soldiers, you can be good citizens. Obey the laws, preserve your honor, and the Government to which you have surrendered can afford to be, and will be, magnanimous.
 
2013-02-06 02:31:29 PM

Farce-Side: CheekyMonkey: dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?

Remind me again what they have to be proud of?  I mean, aside for the systematic subjugation, oppression and dehumanization of a group of people with darker skin, of course...

So, the same thing the rest of the country has to be proud of then?  (Native Americans ring a bell?)


That one's okay, they were godless heathens.
 
2013-02-06 02:31:36 PM

Mija: doczoidberg: Friggin' South.

You bastards have nothing to be proud of. Understand???

No you don't understand. You cannot rewrite history and the men who served did so honorably. They were Americans and you don't have to agree with their cause to honor them for doing what they saw as their duty. I just love how Northerners pretend they didn't buy and sell slaves or that every southerner was a slave owner. Ignorant tool.

I grew up in the South. I am white and lived in a black neighborhood. I saw a lot of parents tell their kids to call me names and fight me because I was a white child. I never saw a white, southern person doing that. So you keep on making up that alternate reality you think the south is today.


Do you think that might have something to do with you growing up in a black neighborhood?
 
2013-02-06 02:32:12 PM
Meh, just take down a cross or a wall that has a bible verse on it, that will even things out again
 
2013-02-06 02:32:22 PM

dukwbutter: That's right. Everyone can be proud of their heritage. Except for Southerners.  That seems fair, right?


Southerners can be very proud of their heritage. However, it pays to pick portions of one's heritage to be proud of that are actually, you know, in any way admirable. For instance, here in Arkansas, trying to keep black people out of public colleges is part of our heritage, but we'd look pretty goddamned stupid and awful if we claimed to be proud of that part.
 
2013-02-06 02:32:34 PM

davidphogan: I'd be more surprised if nobody in Memphis had a problem with this.


Done in one.

One trip to Memphis makes me realize that racial relations in St. Louis are like that Coke commercial where people sing in harmony compared to race relations in Memphis.
 
2013-02-06 02:33:22 PM
The Fort Pillow massacre.

Yeah, N. B. Forrest; heck of a guy.

images.fineartamerica.com
 
2013-02-06 02:34:07 PM

Mija: No you don't understand. You cannot rewrite history and the men who served did so honorably. They were Americans and you don't have to agree with their cause to honor them for doing what they saw as their duty.


There are those who would say that the cause they served negates any honor that they might otherwise have deserved for the way they served it. Indeed, there are many nowadays who decry the idea of deriving honor from duty, precisely because doing it can drive people to serve such causes.

I don't agree with that school of thought, but it's the sort of argument you're up against. It's maddeningly difficult to refute, because it follows pretty darn well from a certain set of underlying assumptions and values that these same people have had an effective time propagating, and so you wind up having to attack those, and pretty soon you're in a philosophical argument so distant from the original point that you get dismissed as out of scope.
 
2013-02-06 02:34:18 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: HotWingConspiracy: Mid_mo_mad_man: Forrest did not start the KKK that existed in the 1950's. The klan he founded died out fairly quickly.

Well that hardly deserves a park naming.

Being a brilliant military commander does

.

Totally. I'll see you at Rommel Park later.

Btw the federal armies did not defeat Lee. Northern manufacturing & the USA Navy did

The important thing is that he and the south were utterly defeated.
 
2013-02-06 02:34:29 PM

Brick-House: How about naming one the Robert Byrd Memorial Park?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x275]


He already got this named after him.
i.huffpost.com

/Been to the top of it.
 
2013-02-06 02:34:45 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: HotWingConspiracy: Mid_mo_mad_man: Forrest did not start the KKK that existed in the 1950's. The klan he founded died out fairly quickly.

Well that hardly deserves a park naming.

Being a brilliant military commander does. Btw the federal armies did not defeat Lee. Northern manufacturing & the USA Navy did


Bullshiat. Lee was not the flawless commander myth makes him out to be. Nor were the union generals the universal disasters that myth would make them to be. Lee failed in both his major offensive campaigns. Meade, Sheridan and Grant destroyed the Army of Northern Virgina.
 
2013-02-06 02:35:04 PM
I grew up in Memphis, and here's the thing - Memphis is a nearly 70% black city, stuck deep in a racist Red state. The state often passes laws with the express purpose of messing with Memphis. So, when the state proposed a ban on renaming parks named after Veterans - Memphis rushed to rename the parks in their borders that glorify the rebelious (and many say, racist) past of that city.

You really want to get into some racism, look at the reverse takeover of the Shelby county schools by Memphis. And yes, that was also started by State level action.
 
2013-02-06 02:35:10 PM

cynicalbastard: And soon, we will have the "And the War between the States had nothin' to do with Slavery, it was all about State's Rights and Import taxes!" crowd...


To be fair it was about state's rights. Specifically, the right of a state to say it's ok to own another human being.
 
2013-02-06 02:35:43 PM

All2morrowsparTs: Noam Chimpsky: There are still US cities States named after British royalty.


Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas, Delaware, and Georgia.

Still?  Are you proposing they change?
 
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