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(Jezebel)   The best advice some people will never learn: "If women keep responding to you like you're some weirdo creeper, then chances are that you're acting like a weirdo creeper"   (jezebel.com) divider line 635
    More: Interesting, sex predator, p.f. chang, Amy Pond  
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10608 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2013 at 12:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-06 01:21:47 AM  
This is the best and only pickup line you will ever need:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riTmalXedUA (NSFW)
 
2013-02-06 01:22:21 AM  

Genevieve Marie: The biggest common thread in every suggestion is that it generally makes people uncomfortable if you come on to them in a situation where they can't easily get away from you or are obligated to be nice.


That is a very good point. To me, that's the most sinister thing that romcoms teach men that see them.
 
2013-02-06 01:23:36 AM  

SpaceBison: fusillade762: Complimenting shoes and eyeglasses are usually safe, in my experience.

That's all I got.

Let me guess, the first words you say to a woman are "nice shoes, wanna fark?"


That would sorta defeat the purpose. If I was gonna go there why not start with "Nice tits"?
 
2013-02-06 01:23:42 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So are you saying "Does this rag smell like ether to you?" isn't a good pickup line?

/because I've gotten great responses with it
//well... maybe more like unresponsive, but still...


My ladies prefer chloroform.
 
2013-02-06 01:23:59 AM  

Fano: Genevieve Marie: The biggest common thread in every suggestion is that it generally makes people uncomfortable if you come on to them in a situation where they can't easily get away from you or are obligated to be nice.

That is a very good point. To me, that's the most sinister thing that romcoms teach men that see them.


Yup. That and "Being told no just means that you should try harder. "
 
2013-02-06 01:24:08 AM  

rynthetyn: BSABSVR: I'd think that "be polite and don't invade people's space" would be complete no-brainer advice.  Then I remember there's a thread just below where people don't understand that dog shiat on the porch isn't a stand your ground situation.

I have a friend who's routinely posting on Facebook about how women don't like nice guys. He's also the same guy who's one of those really huggy people where I had to put my foot down and make it really clear that I don't like people touching me. Instead of picking up on body language, when people recoiled he'd try to be extra huggy.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-06 01:24:49 AM  

BSABSVR: rynthetyn: I have a friend who's routinely posting on Facebook about how women don't like nice guys. He's also the same guy who's one of those really huggy people where I had to put my foot down and make it really clear that I don't like people touching me. Instead of picking up on body language, when people recoiled he'd try to be extra huggy.

Did he just not get that pulling back meant "less of this" not "try more", or did he just think he could changing your emotional state through the healing power of his hugs?


He's one of those extroverts who needs physical contact with people but too socially awkward to understand that if somebody's an introvert who hates being touched, you can't force them to like it.
 
2013-02-06 01:24:57 AM  
Well, this was frustrating. I'm always doing something, because I like to be productive, so perhaps that's why I'm never approached. I'm just making sure there's time to do fun things later, this homework won't do itself. :(
 
2013-02-06 01:25:06 AM  
www.avoiceformen.com
 
2013-02-06 01:26:51 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: nelsonal: Which would be fine if creepy behavior was something besides flirting while being unattractive.

What you describe is the female equivalent reaction of a ham-faced she-beast coming on to you.

You don't want uggos flirting with you, and you probably think them creepy as well.

/ham-faced uggo


Exactly, and surprised to see Genevieve_Marie declare it as false out of hand. If you are completely unattracted to a person, you are already negative enough that you would ascribe terrible motives to them.
 
2013-02-06 01:27:09 AM  

Genevieve Marie: nelsonal: Which would be fine if creepy behavior was something besides flirting while being unattractive.

False.


It's not the ONLY thing that's creepy behavior, but it *is* "creepy behavior."

I mean it's not like men are all poor, much-maligned victims of stupid jerk women, it's that for every instance of men being assholes is an instance of women being the same thing.

I mean hell, if being a persistent pushy jackass refusing to take no for an answer didn't WORK, then the boys doing it wouldn't end up planting so many boorish little babies every generation to grow up and repeat the cycle.  Women reward bad behavior with sex a lot more than they like to admit.  I'm sure YOU (whoever is reading this) don't, (maybe, denial is always "in" among the human race) but if we're talking about men as a demographic it's only fair we talk about women as a demographic.
 
2013-02-06 01:27:15 AM  
That was much better than I expected. I do wish that more women would do the hard wink, it'd make things so much less stressful.
 
2013-02-06 01:27:22 AM  

Genevieve Marie: rynthetyn: BSABSVR: I'd think that "be polite and don't invade people's space" would be complete no-brainer advice.  Then I remember there's a thread just below where people don't understand that dog shiat on the porch isn't a stand your ground situation.

I have a friend who's routinely posting on Facebook about how women don't like nice guys. He's also the same guy who's one of those really huggy people where I had to put my foot down and make it really clear that I don't like people touching me. Instead of picking up on body language, when people recoiled he'd try to be extra huggy.

Ugh.

And next time he posts about how women don't like nice guys, link him to this: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/01/alt-text-nice-guy


 Bookmarked for future reference.
 
2013-02-06 01:29:17 AM  

Fano: Exactly, and surprised to see Genevieve_Marie declare it as false out of hand. If you are completely unattracted to a person, you are already negative enough that you would ascribe terrible motives to them.


Maybe that's how it works for some people, but I don't think I've ever been like that personally. It's never bothered me when a guy I'm not attracted to flirts with me, as long as it's polite and not too intrusive.

The only problem I occasionally ran into when I was single was the guy who thought he'd be able to change my mind and make himself attractive to me if he tried hard enough. There was one guy that stepped so, so far out of line on that one. It still creeps me out when I think about it.
 
2013-02-06 01:29:25 AM  
That article can be boiled down to:

1.  Be handsome
2.  Be attractive
3.  Don't be unattractive
 
2013-02-06 01:30:58 AM  

Fano: Duck_of_Doom: nelsonal: Which would be fine if creepy behavior was something besides flirting while being unattractive.

What you describe is the female equivalent reaction of a ham-faced she-beast coming on to you.

You don't want uggos flirting with you, and you probably think them creepy as well.

/ham-faced uggo

Exactly, and surprised to see Genevieve_Marie declare it as false out of hand. If you are completely unattracted to a person, you are already negative enough that you would ascribe terrible motives to them.


Not true. I'm not attracted to guys, period, but I don't care if they flirt with me or hit on me unless they trigger my creep meter.
 
2013-02-06 01:31:49 AM  

The_Sponge: FTFA:
If You Sit Next to Her On a PlaneNope. Leave her alone. Unless we're on Rihanna's 777 plane or your voice holds the secret to making our Xanax kick in faster, we don't want to talk to you.


What kind of stupid blanket rule is this?  That being said, I have never tried getting somebody's number on a plane.

CSB:

Back in 2004 I was on a short flight from Phoenix to Vegas.  I had an aisle seat, this cute girl in the middle, and this douche was next to the window.  I left her alone, but Mr. Douche tried way too hard....like showing off his new Motorola RAZR phone, and mentioning how he had connections at a few clubs in Vegas.

I did my best not to laugh...especially when he thought that showing off his phone was going to work.

/He did not get her number.


I was in almost the same exact position, except I was sitting next to the window and the creep had the aisle seat.  At one point he got up to go to the bathroom and she turned her head so fast to face me that I thought I heard her neck snap!  She looked me right in the eyes and said, "I'll give you $50 to change seats with me.  Please!"  I actually did laugh at her comment, not at her, but in a friendly manner.  I quickly changed seats with her, told her to keep the $50, and when the guy got back he was shocked to see the woman he had been chatting up was "fast asleep," her head against the bulk head, with her jacket as a pillow.  I quietly explained to him that she told me she suffers from migraines and asked to switch seats with me so that she could try and take a nap. Not surprisingly the guy did not try to chat me up.  After the flight we shared a laugh after he had gone and we ended up sharing a cab from O'hare to the North side of Chicago. And we had a nice conversation.  I could tell that she was not interested in me in the least bit so I just talked to her and never asked her for her phone number.  I got out first and that was the last I ever saw of her.  And, at some point she managed to slip a 50-dollar bill into my carry-on.  I wish she had not done so, but since she did I treated myself to a nice bottle of scotch.
 
2013-02-06 01:33:25 AM  
Treat women like shiat, and you can generally get some poontang.
 
2013-02-06 01:34:54 AM  
I have this rule, the rule of three, it works like this.  You got to let the girl know you're interested, and then you have to go away, so she can think about it. You can do this three times tops, and then, you have to stop.
 
2013-02-06 01:36:02 AM  

Genevieve Marie: AccuJack: If you think being seen as a "creeper" is bad, try being repeatedly friend zoned shortly after "hello".

Rejection is bad, being perceived as ruining a potential great friendship by wanting to actually *date* when that's what you had in mind from the start is really, really hard.

Seriously, I'm going to start acting like more of an asshole if it'll at least keep me from looking like someone who'd be a "really good friend".

The friend zone is not a thing. If you end up there, it's because the object of your affection thinks you are a nice person and enjoys your company but does not envision the two of you getting naked together. That's not the end of the world. At some point, you will find someone that DOES think it would be fun to get naked with you.


Yep. Imagine a gal who has all of your interests and is a blast to hang out with, but you have no attraction to her. Zero. Zip. But she's into you! Do you owe it to her to date her? Even though the thought of kissing her makes you kind of queasy? She's put so much time into the friendship!
 
2013-02-06 01:36:29 AM  

fusillade762: Complimenting shoes and eyeglasses are usually safe, in my experience.

That's all I got.


Nice shoes.  Can you see us farking?
 
2013-02-06 01:37:33 AM  

astoreth: Yep. Imagine a gal who has all of your interests and is a blast to hang out with, but you have no attraction to her. Zero. Zip. But she's into you! Do you owe it to her to date her? Even though the thought of kissing her makes you kind of queasy? She's put so much time into the friendship!


Exactly. Being someone's friend does not entitle them to more, no matter how much they want it.
 
2013-02-06 01:38:04 AM  
As always it boils down to two rules:
1. Be a mindreader
2. Don't be unattractive
 
2013-02-06 01:38:23 AM  
"Need help changing that flat tire?"

/Works well here in the home, and wheelchair tires are a snap to fix.
 
2013-02-06 01:38:33 AM  

rynthetyn: He's one of those extroverts who needs physical contact with people but too socially awkward to understand that if somebody's an introvert who hates being touched, you can't force them to like it.


Heh.  My friends call it my space bubble.  If someone I don't know gets too close (or someone gets too close unexpectedly), they can see my tension rise as the distance closes. It took some time for a lot of them to not take it either personally or as a challenge.
 
2013-02-06 01:38:40 AM  
Guy they like being bold = sexy.
Guy they don't like being bold = creepy weirdo.
But no guy knows which one he is until after making the first move. (granted some guys are just plain creepy weirdos, but even then there's someone out there for almost everyone)

When you look at the fact that most guys won't be offended or creeped out by women flirting with them (unless they're just uncommonly disgusting), it would make the most sense and make everything easier for women to initiate things. But we all know that won't ever happen and the world making sense is way too much to ask.
 
2013-02-06 01:38:58 AM  
Just do like me and freeze in silent, nervous loserdom, then drink heavily and masturbate.
 
2013-02-06 01:39:09 AM  

Genevieve Marie: Fano: Genevieve Marie: The biggest common thread in every suggestion is that it generally makes people uncomfortable if you come on to them in a situation where they can't easily get away from you or are obligated to be nice.

That is a very good point. To me, that's the most sinister thing that romcoms teach men that see them.

Yup. That and "Being told no just means that you should try harder. "


Ooh. That's probably even MORE sinister.  Being told NO is a pretty strong indicator. Creepy friendzone guys work their asses off to avoid a no in the first place, so if they can't take the hint then... they move on to creepy stalker guy. There may be farkers that can tell tales of girlfriends that initially said hell no, no way, then they ended up together.  Heck actually,  I can think of a married couple I knew from college that was a Chasing Amy situation, except it was more the girl wasn't dating ANYONE, but was judged to be a lesbian for various reasons, and her future husband pined for her ENDLESSLY. But she never told him NO.
 
2013-02-06 01:40:37 AM  

Mock26: And, at some point she managed to slip a 50-dollar bill into my carry-on.


You whore.
 
2013-02-06 01:44:53 AM  
Yay for being average, nondescript, and blending into a crowd- fewer creepers that way!  Wait, that probably means I am a creeper. :-/  I'm a lady-creep.  Great.

Though personally, I've found it's pretty no brainer stuff.  Stop your efforts if they're just not buying it.  Don't hold a door open and wait 6 minutes for them to cross a busy parking lot, unless their arms are really full or something I guess, just to smell their hair as they dip under you.  What attracts on type of woman may not attract every type, that sort of thing.
 
2013-02-06 01:46:38 AM  

BSABSVR: rynthetyn: He's one of those extroverts who needs physical contact with people but too socially awkward to understand that if somebody's an introvert who hates being touched, you can't force them to like it.

Heh.  My friends call it my space bubble.  If someone I don't know gets too close (or someone gets too close unexpectedly), they can see my tension rise as the distance closes. It took some time for a lot of them to not take it either personally or as a challenge.


Yeah, this guy definitely takes it as a challenge. I had to spell it out for him before it sank in.
 
2013-02-06 01:46:43 AM  

Fano: Ooh. That's probably even MORE sinister. Being told NO is a pretty strong indicator. Creepy friendzone guys work their asses off to avoid a no in the first place, so if they can't take the hint then... they move on to creepy stalker guy. There may be farkers that can tell tales of girlfriends that initially said hell no, no way, then they ended up together. Heck actually, I can think of a married couple I knew from college that was a Chasing Amy situation, except it was more the girl wasn't dating ANYONE, but was judged to be a lesbian for various reasons, and her future husband pined for her ENDLESSLY. But she never told him NO.


So a few years ago, my roommate and I decided  to have a Christmas party. Super low key, maybe 20 of our friends, I cooked, it was nice. A friend of ours asked if he could bring his brother and his brother's buddies for the night, and we said sure, the more the merrier. I thought they were all nice people, and I was a good hostess and hung out with them, and didn't think more of it. In passing, I'd mentioned to one of them that my office was near his.

So maybe two days later, I'm at work and I get a call. It's the dude- he got my number through my friend and wanted me to have lunch. I told him I was busy and couldn't do it. So he calls again the next day- offers to take me out for a nice dinner.  At this point I'm starting to get a little uncomfortable, but not overly so. I tell him again that I'm really busy at work, that I can't go to dinner and gave a general non-committal response to hanging out with him and a group of people at a bar some time.

So the next week, HE SHOWS UP AT MY OFFICE. Just shows up, walks right up to my desk with a book, and said "Hey I thought you might like to read this and maybe now would be a good time to get coffee?" At the time, I was working for a hellacious boss, plus I was also just beginning a relationship with one of my co-workers, who I'm with to this day.

I very firmly told him that I wasn't interested and to please leave.

He called again the next week, and offered me a ticket to the Saints final playoff game during the superbowl year. Now, those tickets were like gold dust at that time. Everyone wanted to go. And I knew damn well what this was- he thought he was offering me something so rare and special that I'd accept his company just to get the ticket, and then I'd owe him another date. Not being a total idiot, I turned him down firmly.

He got nasty. Like he genuinely couldn't believe I'd turn down playoffs tickets and he insinuated any other girl would be lucky to go.

The whole thing was just really, really off putting and weird.
 
2013-02-06 01:47:08 AM  

Genevieve Marie: Seth'n'Spectrum: feffer: I would think you were 1) gay and an asshole or 2) negging me and thus a PUA asshole.

PUA = Philistine: Uncouth, Aggressive?

Once again, Fark advice proves to be counter-productive and only good for self-sabotage. But, hey, would we want it any other way?

Pick Up Artist. A truly weird culture of really creepy people.


Some of them are like that, but it's honestly a diverse crowd with different goals and strategies. You'll find a few clowns who are just trying to burn through as many women as they can to impress their guy friends, but you'll also find a lot of genuine guys who are frustrated and unsatisfied with their love lives that want to learn how to flirt. The fact is, though some PUAs go too far in the rudeness, they do have a point when they say that there's such a thing as being too nice too soon. When I was in college I used to pick one girl to have a crush on at a time because it felt like infidelity to talk to two of them. The girls I liked were overwhelmed at how much I liked them so quickly. PUA taught me that it's ok to just be cool and casual and not buy a girl flowers and tell her you love her within ten seconds of meeting her.
 
2013-02-06 01:47:49 AM  

Genevieve Marie: Fano: Exactly, and surprised to see Genevieve_Marie declare it as false out of hand. If you are completely unattracted to a person, you are already negative enough that you would ascribe terrible motives to them.

Maybe that's how it works for some people, but I don't think I've ever been like that personally. It's never bothered me when a guy I'm not attracted to flirts with me, as long as it's polite and not too intrusive.

The only problem I occasionally ran into when I was single was the guy who thought he'd be able to change my mind and make himself attractive to me if he tried hard enough. There was one guy that stepped so, so far out of line on that one. It still creeps me out when I think about it.


I wasn't calling you a liar or anything. I agree with the content of that post too. Too many guys think that a "no" means they just need to figure out the key to the lock, when they should just move on. My post was based on thinking of some female friends that ascribed crummier motives to unattractive guys that hit on them. More handsome guys were just assholes, but less good looking guys were creeps for even asking.
 
2013-02-06 01:48:49 AM  
As someone who works retail, I am getting a kick out of this thread. We are like sitting ducks for creeper men, especially since we are forced to act as friendly as possible and weirdos misinterperet that.
 
2013-02-06 01:49:20 AM  

Bathysphere: As someone who works retail, I am getting a kick out of this thread. We are like sitting ducks for creeper men, especially since we are forced to act as friendly as possible and weirdos misinterperet that.


I used to bartend. Same thing.
 
2013-02-06 01:50:08 AM  
I like how the writer keeps going on about "respect" while talking to men in a disrespectful way. The good old double standard.
 
2013-02-06 01:50:52 AM  
Chicks like it when I'm creepy.
 
2013-02-06 01:51:34 AM  
FTA: "don't tell her that she'd be prettier if she smiled. She knows what face she's making and doesn't want anyone telling her to change it."

I don't know what possesses people to say that, but I hear it enough that it's turned into a pet peeve of mine. If there's ever a thread about me going postal on someone, chances are good that'll be what triggered it.
 
2013-02-06 01:53:05 AM  

apoptotic: FTA: "don't tell her that she'd be prettier if she smiled. She knows what face she's making and doesn't want anyone telling her to change it."

I don't know what possesses people to say that, but I hear it enough that it's turned into a pet peeve of mine. If there's ever a thread about me going postal on someone, chances are good that'll be what triggered it.


That's one of my things too. I've straight up told several guys "I'm under no obligation to fake a smile for you, so no, fark off"
 
2013-02-06 01:53:57 AM  

Mock26: And, at some point she managed to slip a 50-dollar bill into my carry-on. I wish she had not done so, but since she did I treated myself to a nice bottle of scotch.



Your story is way better than mine.

*Tipping my hat*
 
2013-02-06 01:54:18 AM  

Bathysphere: As someone who works retail, I am getting a kick out of this thread. We are like sitting ducks for creeper men, especially since we are forced to act as friendly as possible and weirdos misinterperet that.


Oh yeah, I'd get middle aged men flirting with me. It was especially creepy because I looked like I was in high school until several years after I was out of college.
 
2013-02-06 01:56:24 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Mock26: And, at some point she managed to slip a 50-dollar bill into my carry-on.

You whore.


I am not a whore!  I am certainly cheap and easy and will practically give it away, but I am not a whore!
 
2013-02-06 01:58:40 AM  

HotWingAgenda: That article can be boiled down to:

1.  Be handsome
2.  Be attractive
3.  Don't be unattractive



It also ignores that fact that women can be creepy too.  (Hello driving cross country in a diaper to assault your ex's new girlfriend).

I have had friends wives hold my hand a bit too long while telling me how glad they are that I came over and stop by any time I want, even during the day when Bob's at work....and on and on while not letting go of my hands and looking into my eyes for extended conversations.  While I politely try pulling my hands away and putting them in my pockets, and mumble replies like "Um, okay, thanks."  Sorry, but your huband is my old college buddy.  Give me my hand back, and give me 2 inches of breathing room between our faces...
 
2013-02-06 01:59:49 AM  

browntimmy: Guy they like being bold = sexy.
Guy they don't like being bold = creepy weirdo.
But no guy knows which one he is until after making the first move. (granted some guys are just plain creepy weirdos, but even then there's someone out there for almost everyone)

When you look at the fact that most guys won't be offended or creeped out by women flirting with them (unless they're just uncommonly disgusting), it would make the most sense and make everything easier for women to initiate things. But we all know that won't ever happen and the world making sense is way too much to ask.


Ok, here's a tip: Initiate the conversation, but don't initiate the "move" until she is giving you signals of attraction. Just talk neutrally about the environment or something she's holding or whatever. Then start talking about her and yourself. Find an excuse to bring up a few interesting things about yourself that convey that you have friends, interesting hobbies, ex-girlfriends (TRUST ME ON THIS! It's like an automatic "Ok. He's safe. Another woman dated him." switch.) Then look for the following: Is she facing you with her entire body instead of over her shoulder? If you drop the conversation, does she restart it? Does she touch any part of her face or hair more than once while listening to you? Does she tip her head forward while listening? Does she smile when you say something that isn't funny?

You get adept at it with experience. Since you haven't hit on her yet, you haven't risked anything. You can back away without being called a creeper.

Hey, Farkers, did you think this was good advice? If so, you just agreed with one of the "douchebag pickup artists" you all love to hate. See? It isn't all evil mind hacking. The vast majority of it is all about making her feel comfortable with the stance that she will be more attracted to you if you aren't desperately trying to invade her space with your own pathetic needs. There's way too much emphasis on "negging." The community moved beyond that years ago.
 
2013-02-06 02:00:05 AM  
I have discovered that my wedding ring is a turn on for a small but acceptable cross-section of the hot/crazy axes.
 
2013-02-06 02:00:13 AM  

Genevieve Marie: So maybe two days later, I'm at work and I get a call. It's the dude- he got my number through my friend and wanted me to have lunch. I told him I was busy and couldn't do it. So he calls again the next day- offers to take me out for a nice dinner. At this point I'm starting to get a little uncomfortable, but not overly so. I tell him again that I'm really busy at work, that I can't go to dinner and gave a general non-committal response to hanging out with him and a group of people at a bar some time.

So the next week, HE SHOWS UP AT MY OFFICE. Just shows up, walks right up to my desk with a book, and said "Hey I thought you might like to read this and maybe now would be a good time to get coffee?" At the time, I was working for a hellacious boss, plus I was also just beginning a relationship with one of my co-workers, who I'm with to this day.

I very firmly told him that I wasn't interested and to please leave.

He called again the next week, and offered me a ticket to the Saints final playoff game during the superbowl year. Now, those tickets were like gold dust at that time. Everyone wanted to go. And I knew damn well what this was- he thought he was offering me something so rare and special that I'd accept his company just to get the ticket, and then I'd owe him another date. Not being a total idiot, I turned him down firmly.

He got nasty. Like he genuinely couldn't believe I'd turn down playoffs tickets and he insinuated any other girl would be lucky to go.

The whole thing was just really, really off putting and weird.


Wow, what a jerk. Hmm. I guess not everyone is good at reading social cues? I don't want to sound like I only accept a firm NO as a reason for a man to give up. The entire leadup you give is a neverending story of "I'm not interested." Right after being directed out of your office, he should have gotten the idea. Did he never see The Last Unicorn? The Lady Almalthea cannot be won by great gifts. I hope he found someone to give those tickets to.
 
2013-02-06 02:00:40 AM  
When I was single, I had one line that always worked at the bars:

*walk up to the girl*
"Hey, uh, you're kinda ugly."
*wait for exasperated response and then put up hands defensively*
"No, no, no. I LIKE that."


Slapped to laid ratio was about 50/50, so better than any other line out there.
 
2013-02-06 02:01:09 AM  

BMFPitt: When I was a hopeless single guy, I always hated when people said, "Be confident" as if it were some kind of useful advice.

That's kind of like a track coach saying, "Run faster."


A good coach might say, "Study these films of a fast runner and do as he does until you're fast."

Of course, you may not have any confident male acquaintances to study.  But you can always watch "Gone With The Wind" on Netflix.
 
2013-02-06 02:01:32 AM  
"Have you met Ted?"
 
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