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(Fox News)   Mass murders are on the rise because 30 years ago Obama stopped caring about the mentally ill. I guess he really IS Ronald Reagan   (nation.foxnews.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Ronald Reagan, massacres, obama  
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3484 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Feb 2013 at 1:09 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-05 11:44:35 AM  
You want to reduce crime?  Invest in health care and education. Mental health and physical health, education, and financial security, and you are going to reduce the reasons folks turn to violence.

When Mass started turning folks out of mental health care facilities, they saw a huge jump in homelessness and drug use. Of course, that fed into the hands of those who wanted law and order, yet missed the whole causative factors. Cutting off your nose to spite your face doesn't quite work so well, and being penny wise and pound foolish doesn't either...
 
2013-02-05 11:50:11 AM  
Am I the only one who couldn't follow what either one of them was trying to say from that transcript?
 
2013-02-05 11:56:53 AM  
Actually, no they aren't on the rise.


Forget What You've Heard: Mass Shootings Aren't Rising. But They Probably Aren't Going Away
Megan: I'd like to talk about how we count mass shooters, which has been a bit of an issue over the last week or so. Mother Jones had a widely cited analysis showing that mass shootings are on the rise. But you've disputed that, saying that their count is unreasonably restrictive.

James Alan Fox: Yes, that's right. If one examines the full range of cases--all shootings with at least four victims killed, the numbers have been trendless. Over the past 35 years, there has been an average of jut under 20 incidents per year. Of course, most were not as well-publicized, or as large-scale, as Sandy Hook.

I understand that Mother Jones was trying to isolate "random" massacres, but their criteria were sometimes arbitrary and not even applied consistently. For example, they wanted to limit their pool to cases involving a lone gunman, but made exceptions for two well-known school shootings (each committed by a pair of students) that they wanted to include.

Given how difficult it to accomplish the task of defining "random", I would opt for including all mass shootings. Besides, if 7 or 10 or 14 are killed in a not-so-random shooting spree, is this any less important or devastating?

I do applaud their effort to build a database that includes details on each case, but they would have been better off not limiting he pool based on questionable criteria
 
2013-02-05 12:23:32 PM  
I hope when Obama leaves office he patents his time machine and markets it to the general public.
 
2013-02-05 12:39:10 PM  
Saborlas to Ann Coulter: I wouldn't screw you with Hitler's dick!
 
2013-02-05 01:03:47 PM  
I will not even give Fox News the ad revenue from my click to read their agitprop BS.

fark those people.

www.zeusnews.it
 
2013-02-05 01:07:01 PM  
Its clear that Ann Coulter never got the mental health care that she so desperately needs.
 
2013-02-05 01:07:08 PM  
Yes, it is the liberals who typically show little sympathy for the underdog, and the conservatives whose Jesus-y hearts yearn for the better treatment of society's downtrodden.  To which end they will happily forfeit a portion of their income to provide comprehensive and humane treatment for the unfortunates among us.  For a better America.
 
2013-02-05 01:11:52 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-05 01:12:19 PM  

blogs.ajc.com
Hey Obama: screw you.
cdn.breitbart.com
Sorry Ann.  I'm a happily married, heterosexual man.  I'm not on the down-low.
NTTAWWT

 
2013-02-05 01:13:28 PM  

hubiestubert: You want to reduce crime?  Invest in health care and education. Mental health and physical health, education, and financial security, and you are going to reduce the reasons folks turn to violence.


American education is all about making Johnny and Jane a good little corporate consumer.  It isn't going to help unless you REALLY want to educate and give them critical thinking skills.  That's not what we do anymore.
 
2013-02-05 01:13:38 PM  
Is Ann selling another book?
 
2013-02-05 01:13:45 PM  
Screw you. You don't think we care about the children. You don't do anything about the mentally ill.

She's right about the last bit...Obama should be doing more to have her and others like her committed to the psych ward.
 
2013-02-05 01:14:21 PM  
Republican gun nuts are free to propose addressing this along with whatever taxes will be needed to cover the effort.
 
2013-02-05 01:15:14 PM  

d23: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x476]


OH MY GOD. HE IS A TIMELORD!

www.flickfilosopher.com
 
2013-02-05 01:17:03 PM  
Just another talking point to try and shunt gun control aside and focus on mental health. The GOP plays it's base--and their capacity to endure unfathomable levels of cognitive dissonance--like a fiddle.
 
2013-02-05 01:17:13 PM  
She is so edgy.
 
2013-02-05 01:17:47 PM  

theknuckler_33: Is Ann selling another book?


When is she not?
 
2013-02-05 01:17:53 PM  
NOW Republicans care about the mentally ill?  Whew!  And here I thought they just wanted to pass the blame to something that isn't guns!
 
2013-02-05 01:18:28 PM  
Obamas drone strikes have killed more children than AR 15s
 
2013-02-05 01:18:52 PM  
I love all the crocodile tears for the mental health issue as it relates to guns... from the very same people who, any other time would say "fark 'em... ain't my job to pay to take care of every bedbug who can't handle reality."

And that's conservatism in a nustshell... No convictions or principles, just say whatever it takes, at whatever time, on whatever topic is at hand in order to win the issue and win the day.
 
2013-02-05 01:19:09 PM  

theknuckler_33: Is Ann selling another book?


Death to the Liberal Race, Episode 78: How Hitler Left Mao dead zombie Socialist Obama
 
2013-02-05 01:19:31 PM  
Let's go back in history, shall we?


"During the early 1960s a series of initiatives designed to reform the mental health system were passed. At issue was the system of state run hospitals for the mentally ill, which were increasingly perceived as inhumane and, with the help of new medications, rather unnecessary for large portions of the patient population. In 1961, the Joint Commission on Mental Illness released  Action for Mental Health, calling for the integration of the mentally ill into the general public with the aid of Community Mental Health Centers. In 1963, the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers instituted the centers, but due to the financial drain of the Vietnam War during the 1960s and the financial crisis of the 1970s, the program was not fully funded.  1 The result was the release of patients into an environment lacking the Community Mental Health Centers to adequately treat them (Becker and Schulberg, 1976; DeLeonardis and Mauri, 1992; Hollingsworth, 1994; Rachlin, 1974; Rachlin et al, 1975; Saathoff et al, 1992; Shwed, 1978, 1980; Talbott, 1992; Worley and Lowery, 1988;).

By the start of the Carter administration in 1977, involuntary commitment had been restricted to those who were deemed as potentially dangerous to themselves or, perhaps more significantly, those around them.  2 Typically, the commitment had to be sponsored by a family member and/or ordered by the court. A result of this policy was that the mentally ill patient who refused treatment typically did not receive any at all. If the patient had lost contact with family members, she or he would not be committed unless found to be a threat by the court. Often, those arrested ended up in jail rather than in treatment if they had not been found to be a threat but had committed a crime (Abramson, 1972; Conrad and Schneider, 1980). One result was a high degree of stress and frustration experienced by the relatives of the patient. Throughout the 1970s, family members organized with the purpose of correcting a policy that they perceived was wrong."


Hm, sounds like the mental health issues began well before Reagan got into office.
 
2013-02-05 01:19:35 PM  

theknuckler_33: Is Ann selling another book?


When isn't she?
 
2013-02-05 01:21:40 PM  

Giltric: Obamas drone strikes have killed more children than AR 15s


B-b-but he has a constitutional right!
 
2013-02-05 01:21:46 PM  

hubiestubert: Invest in health care and

education


No matter how much you invest you still have to compete with the allure of thug culture and get the kids to go to and stay in school.

How about prison terms long enough so the perp never sees the light of day again?
 
2013-02-05 01:21:52 PM  

d23: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x476]


Hmm. The guy who makes those "Teach the Controversy" t-shirts is a Farker, right? I would love a Barack Obama: TIME LORD one.
 
2013-02-05 01:23:15 PM  

Giltric: Obamas drone strikes have killed more children than AR 15s


Yep.  Probably worth a televised hearing.  Too bad every Senator and Representative on the joint committee will fall all over themselves to not sound weak regarding the great war on terror.

Probably best to try another round of Benghazi/Solyndra/Fast and Furious instead.
 
2013-02-05 01:23:33 PM  
I'm sure the House Republicans will act in good faith if and when the administration offers up a mental health legislative package. There is no chance they will try to poison pill it by adding an amendment stating life begins with erection or something equally asinine.

And there is certainly no chance of a filibuster by Senate Republicans. They promised.
 
2013-02-05 01:24:00 PM  

Giltric: Obamas drone strikes have killed more children than AR 15s


Dogs have bitten more mailmen than Charles Manson.
 
2013-02-05 01:24:28 PM  

Huck Chaser: Am I the only one who couldn't follow what either one of them was trying to say from that transcript?


Reminded me of that "Hey Atheists" thing that devolved into nonsense after the first two words.
This one!
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-05 01:25:29 PM  

Giltric: hubiestubert: Invest in health care and education


No matter how much you invest you still have to compete with the allure of thug culture and get the kids to go to and stay in school.

How about prison terms long enough so the perp never sees the light of day again?


That'll work. Then we only have to worry about all the people who haven't committed any crimes yet.
 
2013-02-05 01:26:33 PM  
Why won't these damn liberals hurry up and cleanup that commie Reagan's mess?
 
2013-02-05 01:26:36 PM  

Giltric: Obamas drone strikes have killed more children than AR 15s




Insecticide has killed more people than AR-15s.

/Waits for someone to realize I am a very, very bad man
 
2013-02-05 01:26:50 PM  
This from the party that has so co-opted the term "family" to mean "a retarded-ass fictionalized version of what I so desperately want history to be that I ignore most of actual history".

Nono. Screw you.

// hey, everyone - we're all gonna get laid!
 
2013-02-05 01:27:00 PM  
Sure would have been nice to have some actual studies on how the reduction in mental health services affected gun violence.  I'm sure the NRA's all for that, so we can have some real science here instead of just guessing.  They're on board, right?  RIght?
 
2013-02-05 01:27:00 PM  
Let's get this out of the way first and foremost
download.gamespotcdn.net

hubiestubert: You want to reduce crime?  Invest in health care and education. Mental health and physical health, education, and financial security, and you are going to reduce the reasons folks turn to violence.

When Mass started turning folks out of mental health care facilities, they saw a huge jump in homelessness and drug use. Of course, that fed into the hands of those who wanted law and order, yet missed the whole causative factors. Cutting off your nose to spite your face doesn't quite work so well, and being penny wise and pound foolish doesn't either...


Hey! The SAME EXACT thing happened/is happening in San Francisco! If only someone could study if the two are related...
 
2013-02-05 01:27:20 PM  

Huck Chaser: Am I the only one who couldn't follow what either one of them was trying to say from that transcript?


What, you don't speak frontier gibberish?

www.avforums.com
 
2013-02-05 01:28:03 PM  
Integrating people with disabilities (mental health and others) into our communities was a great thing. Not having a plan to care for people after they were booted out of the institutions....not so good. Here's a bottle of pills and a bus ticket, good luck bro!
 
2013-02-05 01:28:14 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Giltric: hubiestubert: Invest in health care and education


No matter how much you invest you still have to compete with the allure of thug culture and get the kids to go to and stay in school.

How about prison terms long enough so the perp never sees the light of day again?

That'll work. Then we only have to worry about all the people who haven't committed any crimes yet.


We can ban mental illness.  That should work.
 
2013-02-05 01:28:47 PM  

SnarfVader: I hope when Obama leaves office he patents his time machine and markets it to the general public.


 I want a time machine too

i208.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-05 01:29:23 PM  
My earlier post wasn't quite all I wanted to say. The problems with the mentally ill in America today was a combination of BOTH sides (liberals and conservatives) making poor decisions. To dump it all on Reagan, who merely cut funding in 1981 to enact a Carter-era law is disingenuous. I would say most of our problems reside with getting rid of the systems (institutions and asylums) that kept the mentally ill off the streets and safe, which was a 70s-era idea. (Watch "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" for Hollywood's idea of what these places were all about).

There are very few beds for the truly mentally ill in most states. Most of these people are dumped on local hospitals who can only deal with these types of patients for a few days at most b/c they don't have the room and/or security available to deal with them for an extended period of time. It is very difficult to force a mentally ill person into a facility that can help him without an act of violence as evidence of their inability to remain out on the streets among the public.

I have read many heartbreaking stories about parents who are left to deal with violent, mentally ill children on their own with very little support from the medical system. Typically, from what I have seen, hospitals keep these children for only a few days at a time, get them stabilized and send them back to their families to deal with. There is no long-term solution that I know of...and this is what we need.
 
2013-02-05 01:30:39 PM  

Giltric: No matter how much you invest you still have to compete with the allure of thug culture


Ahh yes.  Mass shootings happen because negroes.  Of course.
 
2013-02-05 01:31:04 PM  

BSABSVR: Giltric: Obamas drone strikes have killed more children than AR 15s

Yep.  Probably worth a televised hearing.  Too bad every Senator and Representative on the joint committee will fall all over themselves to not sound weak regarding the great war on terror.

Probably best to try another round of Benghazi/Solyndra/Fast and Furious instead.


You forgot the newest one:   Fearless Distributing

Typical (read: Botched) ATF operation.
 
2013-02-05 01:34:37 PM  

Hobodeluxe: SnarfVader: I hope when Obama leaves office he patents his time machine and markets it to the general public.

 I want a time machine too

[i208.photobucket.com image 720x644]


If I ever need a fake protest sign I am sooooo stealing that.
 
2013-02-05 01:35:14 PM  
Coulter: He cares about the children. Screw you.

That's a nice soundbite.
 
2013-02-05 01:36:18 PM  

Counter_Intelligent: NOW Republicans care about the mentally ill?  Whew!  And here I thought they just wanted to pass the blame to something that isn't guns!


It's a nice change of pace if they are actually going to focus on mental health care instead of video games, all though I expect it's all bluster and no action.
 
2013-02-05 01:36:38 PM  

jake_lex: Sure would have been nice to have some actual studies on how the reduction in mental health services affected gun violence.  I'm sure the NRA's all for that, so we can have some real science here instead of just guessing.  They're on board, right?  RIght?


They are actually right about this one, but it's more of a "Broken clock" kind of right and they'll forget about it and go back to blaming knee-length skirts and purple beach balls soon enough.
 
2013-02-05 01:37:31 PM  
That is one dumb coont!!
 
2013-02-05 01:37:57 PM  

k1j2b3: My earlier post wasn't quite all I wanted to say. The problems with the mentally ill in America today was a combination of BOTH sides (liberals and conservatives) making poor decisions. To dump it all on Reagan, who merely cut funding in 1981 to enact a Carter-era law is disingenuous. I would say most of our problems reside with getting rid of the systems (institutions and asylums) that kept the mentally ill off the streets and safe, which was a 70s-era idea. (Watch "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" for Hollywood's idea of what these places were all about).

There are very few beds for the truly mentally ill in most states. Most of these people are dumped on local hospitals who can only deal with these types of patients for a few days at most b/c they don't have the room and/or security available to deal with them for an extended period of time. It is very difficult to force a mentally ill person into a facility that can help him without an act of violence as evidence of their inability to remain out on the streets among the public.

I have read many heartbreaking stories about parents who are left to deal with violent, mentally ill children on their own with very little support from the medical system. Typically, from what I have seen, hospitals keep these children for only a few days at a time, get them stabilized and send them back to their families to deal with. There is no long-term solution that I know of...and this is what we need.




The asylums went away when the Supreme Court ruled the mentally ill have a right to decide not to be institutionalized.
 
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