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(Change.org)   Dear Oracle: Please stop bundling crapware with Java. Sincerely, Everybody   ( change.org) divider line
    More: Stupid, Oracle Corporation, Java, Ask toolbar, IAC, security updates  
•       •       •

3765 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Feb 2013 at 10:29 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-05 08:02:04 AM  
Dear Oracle: Please stop bundling crapware with Java. Sincerely, Everybody

FTFY
 
2013-02-05 09:14:20 AM  
I am prohibited by law from commenting in this thread.

but i agree
 
2013-02-05 10:32:06 AM  
Or just use ninite and install updates without worrying about it putting crap on there.
 
2013-02-05 10:33:13 AM  
I just popped in to recommend the awesomeness that is  ninite.com
It has a pay service for updates, but for initial installation of software, it's amazingly fantastic.
 
2013-02-05 10:34:04 AM  
I demand more Ask toolbars and Mcafee anti-virus installs on top of my existing anti-virus! Things run too damn efficiently on my computer and need something to slow it down. Save me, Oracle, save me!
 
2013-02-05 10:34:22 AM  
Tag is for the petitioner (and submitter?).  For not unchecking the checkbox on the installer.  And for continuing to use Java.
 
2013-02-05 10:37:33 AM  

labman: Or just use ninite and install updates without worrying about it putting crap on there.


That doesn't solve the problem.  It works around the problem to a degree.  It's useless to the vast majority of users because they've never heard of Ninite, and probably aren't savvy enough to even recognize the bundling as a problem to begin with.

Furthermore, while it's a good workaround for initial installation, Java tries to get you every farking time it updates, too.
 
2013-02-05 10:38:58 AM  
Write once, run slowly everywhere.
 
2013-02-05 10:42:18 AM  
It's amazing how many people in my office try to download Java, and click-click-click through the install screens, skipping over that check mark to avoid installing that Ask toolbar, then biatch to IT when toolbars "magically" appear on their browsers and slow down their systems, or take them to "rogue" websites.

It's one thing when this crap is included on freeware or donationware that's intentionally requested. It's another when a browser makes a request of some plugin that's required and forces you to go through all this just to make it work.

/// public class kissMyAss extends middleFinger implements bloatedBuggyCode!
 
2013-02-05 10:42:43 AM  

China White Tea: Furthermore, while it's a good workaround for initial installation, Java tries to get you every farking time it updates, too.


The further workaround is to use Windows built-in task scheduler to run your ninite executable on a daily basis. The apps all update unless the users are running them at the moment task runs, and then they're never even aware that updates happened.
 
2013-02-05 10:47:04 AM  

likefunbutnot: China White Tea: Furthermore, while it's a good workaround for initial installation, Java tries to get you every farking time it updates, too.

The further workaround is to use Windows built-in task scheduler to run your ninite executable on a daily basis. The apps all update unless the users are running them at the moment task runs, and then they're never even aware that updates happened.


Fair enough, that will work... but it's definitely not something you should have to do, and it's definitely not an option for most users.
 
2013-02-05 10:51:37 AM  

labman: Or just use ninite and install updates without worrying about it putting crap on there.


PDQDeploy is pretty good too.

But seriously, Microsoft, just add third party support in WSUS already. I know you want us all to be running fully blown out version of SCCM and paying you $Eleventy Billion dollars a month for the privileged, but it's just not going to happen. Some of us have budgets, and/or don't have 10k computers to update.

It would take like 0.1% of your WSUS teams resources to give us this. I know you're not worried about running other third parties out of business, and just this little thing would make so many admins so incredibly happy.
 
2013-02-05 10:53:55 AM  
Considering java is the primary attack vector for malware/trojans these days I don't even install it.  I haven't had java on my machine in about 4 years now.'

Unless you need it for work don't bother.  There's no actual need.

If you develop with it,  I'm sorry for you :)
 
2013-02-05 10:53:59 AM  

jayhawk88: labman: Or just use ninite and install updates without worrying about it putting crap on there.

PDQDeploy is pretty good too.

But seriously, Microsoft, just add third party support in WSUS already. I know you want us all to be running fully blown out version of SCCM and paying you $Eleventy Billion dollars a month for the privileged, but it's just not going to happen. Some of us have budgets, and/or don't have 10k computers to update.

It would take like 0.1% of your WSUS teams resources to give us this. I know you're not worried about running other third parties out of business, and just this little thing would make so many admins so incredibly happy.


Java is easily deployed through Software Management in a Group Policy Object.
 
2013-02-05 10:57:37 AM  
I'm just tired of all the various software developers out there trying to throw in various extra programs when you try to install anything. Want to install this music player? Uncheck this box or you'll get this piece of shiat toolbar, or this browser assistant, or other ad/malware. That shiat's almost as evil as politicians throwing riders and other pork into bills, because otherwise no one in their right mind would want whatever the rider selling. Same concept, no one in their right mind would want whatever other shiat various programs want you to install, but you have to pay attention otherwise it'll slip right by you.
 
2013-02-05 10:59:07 AM  

Slam Dunkz: If you develop with it, I'm sorry for you :)


It's not bad for large server side applications.  As a client is sucks though.
 
2013-02-05 11:02:49 AM  

rickycal78: I'm just tired of all the various software developers out there trying to throw in various extra programs when you try to install anything. Want to install this music player? Uncheck this box or you'll get this piece of shiat toolbar, or this browser assistant, or other ad/malware. That shiat's almost as evil as politicians throwing riders and other pork into bills, because otherwise no one in their right mind would want whatever the rider selling. Same concept, no one in their right mind would want whatever other shiat various programs want you to install, but you have to pay attention otherwise it'll slip right by you.

 
2013-02-05 11:08:10 AM  
Dear Oracle: Please stop bundling crapware with EVERY UPDATE OF Java. Sincerely, Everybody
 
2013-02-05 11:10:56 AM  

rickycal78: I'm just tired of all the various software developers out there trying to throw in various extra programs when you try to install anything. Want to install this music player? Uncheck this box or you'll get this piece of shiat toolbar, or this browser assistant, or other ad/malware. That shiat's almost as evil as politicians throwing riders and other pork into bills, because otherwise no one in their right mind would want whatever the rider selling. Same concept, no one in their right mind would want whatever other shiat various programs want you to install, but you have to pay attention otherwise it'll slip right by you.


While I agree with you that I hate when they include that garbage, it's kind of important to point out that they do it because it's sometimes the only way to monetize their application. They get paid a fee by Ask.com and others for including the toolbars in their installers.

I think they need a better way of monetizing their applications, absolutely, but it's not entirely malicious. Some stuff there just is no easy way to monetize the app.

Now that being said, I don't know what the fark Oracle is thinking for including that crap in the JRE. They make enough profits off their product line, that it's entirely unnecessary to include that crap every time there is an update to the JRE.
 
2013-02-05 11:13:06 AM  

YodaBlues: Now that being said, I don't know what the fark Oracle is thinking for including that crap in the JRE. They make enough profits off their product line, that it's entirely unnecessary to include that crap every time there is an update to the JRE.


Yeah, I think there is also a pretty big ethical difference between bundling some shiatty toolbar with some shiatty one-off application, and bundling some shiatty toolbar with every farking update of a major framework/runtime enviro.
 
2013-02-05 11:16:02 AM  
I am all for bundling this kind of thing with "legit" software.  It's a teaching tool.  If you just click through an installer without paying any attention to what it's telling or asking you, then you get punished.  It's the same reason I hide live spiders in my kid's boxes of cereal.  It only takes one spider bite on the inside of the mouth to teach a kid to pay attention to what they're shoveling in their mouth.
 
2013-02-05 11:18:07 AM  

xenophon10k: Dear Oracle: Please stop with Java.


I'd drop C# in a hearbeat if somebody would add support for unsigned integers and passing basic types to methods by reference to Java.  I hate having to create classes in Java for the sole purpose of being able to return two or more variables.
 
2013-02-05 11:18:46 AM  
Here's an idea.
Why not have the boxes unchecked by default. lol as if.
 
2013-02-05 11:20:24 AM  

Teufelaffe: It's a teaching tool. If you just click through an installer without paying any attention to what it's telling or asking you, then you get punished.


southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

/agrees
 
2013-02-05 11:20:50 AM  

Teufelaffe: I am all for bundling this kind of thing with "legit" software.  It's a teaching tool.  If you just click through an installer without paying any attention to what it's telling or asking you, then you get punished.  It's the same reason I hide live spiders in my kid's boxes of cereal.  It only takes one spider bite on the inside of the mouth to teach a kid to pay attention to what they're shoveling in their mouth.


4.bp.blogspot.com
"That's why you always leave a note check for spiders in your cereal!"
 
2013-02-05 11:34:48 AM  

Dimensio: jayhawk88: labman: Or just use ninite and install updates without worrying about it putting crap on there.

PDQDeploy is pretty good too.

But seriously, Microsoft, just add third party support in WSUS already. I know you want us all to be running fully blown out version of SCCM and paying you $Eleventy Billion dollars a month for the privileged, but it's just not going to happen. Some of us have budgets, and/or don't have 10k computers to update.

It would take like 0.1% of your WSUS teams resources to give us this. I know you're not worried about running other third parties out of business, and just this little thing would make so many admins so incredibly happy.

Java is easily deployed through Software Management in a Group Policy Object.


WSUS does have 3rd party support. You though have to shell out bucks for Sytem Center.

Adobe even supplies a catalog import for WSUS.
 
2013-02-05 11:40:28 AM  

Dimensio: Java is easily deployed through Software Management in a Group Policy Object.


Yes. Because I want convince six people working in an office that they need full blown Active Directory just to keep from being pestered about Java.

/Modern Samba does AD, kinda sorta
//Still doesn't mean I want to support it.
 
2013-02-05 11:52:13 AM  
It does bug the heck out of me that they try to install crapware along with it.
 
2013-02-05 12:03:13 PM  
Just use .NET so we can get on with life.
 
2013-02-05 12:07:48 PM  
Uncheck the box where it asks if you want the Ask toolbar. How hard is that?
 
2013-02-05 12:14:04 PM  

Phantoms5000: It's amazing how many people in my office try to download Java, and click-click-click through the install screens, skipping over that check mark to avoid installing that Ask toolbar, then biatch to IT when toolbars "magically" appear on their browsers and slow down their systems, or take them to "rogue" websites.

It's one thing when this crap is included on freeware or donationware that's intentionally requested. It's another when a browser makes a request of some plugin that's required and forces you to go through all this just to make it work.

/// public class kissMyAss extends middleFinger implements bloatedBuggyCode!


Agreed. And when I ask why we don't just lock shiat up everyone laughs.

/new kid so not up on all the office politics yet
//turn off updates on the image and people still fk it up
///adobe is just as bad. Automatic Chrome install screws shiat up if you're not carefull
 
2013-02-05 12:17:39 PM  

Marine1: Just use .NET so we can get on with life.


If you want to chip in on the development of Mono, then sure.  Until then, dotNet sucks on anything other than Microsoft platforms.
 
2013-02-05 12:19:09 PM  

rickycal78: I'm just tired of all the various software developers out there trying to throw in various extra programs when you try to install anything. Want to install this music player? Uncheck this box or you'll get this piece of shiat toolbar, or this browser assistant, or other ad/malware. That shiat's almost as evil as politicians throwing riders and other pork into bills, because otherwise no one in their right mind would want whatever the rider selling. Same concept, no one in their right mind would want whatever other shiat various programs want you to install, but you have to pay attention otherwise it'll slip right by you.


Or if somebody were to use a fake AMUSING tag that linked to a featured partner!

/I keed
 
2013-02-05 12:53:31 PM  

Dinjiin: Marine1: Just use .NET so we can get on with life.

If you want to chip in on the development of Mono, then sure.  Until then, dotNet sucks on anything other than Microsoft platforms.


Java sucks on all of them.
 
2013-02-05 01:12:17 PM  

likefunbutnot: Dimensio: Java is easily deployed through Software Management in a Group Policy Object.

Yes. Because I want convince six people working in an office that they need full blown Active Directory just to keep from being pestered about Java.

/Modern Samba does AD, kinda sorta
//Still doesn't mean I want to support it.


If you are only supporting six workstations then you can easily write a script on your main management system to deploy Java (and other applications) using psexec.
 
2013-02-05 01:57:50 PM  
Dear humanity,

Read before you press the Submit button.

Thanks.
kregh99
 
2013-02-05 02:15:32 PM  
It sucks, but that's how they make it free. The penalty is 30 seconds of uninstalling.

Go hate on CNET if you want for packaging crap inside the download and giving no opt-out.
 
2013-02-05 02:57:06 PM  
It just bugs me that Oracle owns Java. Though I find it far more distressing that they own MySQL.
 
2013-02-05 03:18:05 PM  
As time has gone on, I hate Oracle more and more.  They're killing MySQL and this BS with Java is ridiculous.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/18/oracle-makes-more-moves-to-kill-ope n- source-mysql/
 
2013-02-05 03:36:17 PM  

Marine1: Just use .NET so we can get on with life.


.net!? .NET!? and which version? ha ha! oh god .net, drove me crazy. 1.1, 2.0., 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, all different, and each one a special snowflake,
so if you have a software that requires .net 1.1, it wont work if you only have higher versions installed, and you MUST INSTALL THEM IN ORDER FROM EARLIEST VERSION TO LATEST NO EXCEPTIONS.
so you must have been joking
 
2013-02-05 04:08:40 PM  
Oddly enough I just installed Java on my new laptop this afternoon....
Was very much "What the fark?" when I saw that little check box and the Ask toolbar.
Screw you Oracle!

/Is this where I say "getting a kick"?
// or is it CSB?
/// gotta keep the Fark memes straight.
 
2013-02-05 05:12:53 PM  
<i>Java is a software package beloved by users and developers all over the world.  </i>

Bwhahahahahahahhaah!

Java 1.0 was cool and fun
Java 1.2 was useful
Java 1.4 was professional
Java 5/1.5 was farking bloated
Java 6/1/6 fark all you all and your stupid assed frameworks
Java 7 Death of Java.


Yeah, you really should avoid Java for any new development it has turned into one big stinking shiat hole of a language.
 
2013-02-05 06:00:34 PM  
I saw those add-ons recently and I could barely believe my eyes.  Why not tell me that you've signed me up for a one-month free trial of Kabletown, and if I don't cancel it within the next five minutes, I'm committed to a 2-year contract.
 
2013-02-05 06:35:41 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: <i>Java is a software package beloved by users and developers all over the world.  </i>

Bwhahahahahahahhaah!

Java 1.0 was cool and fun
Java 1.2 was useful
Java 1.4 was professional
Java 5/1.5 was farking bloated
Java 6/1/6 fark all you all and your stupid assed frameworks
Java 7 Death of Java.


Yeah, you really should avoid Java for any new development it has turned into one big stinking shiat hole of a language.


Ugh. My work made the snap decision to go from SharePoint to some bloated Oracle product for our CMS. Nary a thought was given to the fact that none of our developers has any experience outside of core web languages and .NET. I'm not looking forward to having to learn Java. Seems like a massive step backward.

But hey, another bullet point on the ol' resume.
 
2013-02-05 06:40:04 PM  
Where are people seeing this? The offline installer doesn't have any toolbars included.
 
2013-02-05 06:52:52 PM  
It's funny because just updated the other day and spent entirely too much time pondering. What the fark were the thinking? This makes them both look more pathetic.

No... No I don't want the Ask.com toolbar. I think the last time anybody intentionally "Asked Jeeves" was probably in the mid-90's and they probably never asked him anything again after that. On that note, how is that website still alive?

/Over 9,000 facepalms
 
2013-02-05 07:48:05 PM  
Download the offline installer instead of the online installer. It has never asked to install the Ask.com toolbar.

/ass.com
// btw this new fark editor is a piece of shiat on touchscreen keyboards.
///Probably wont get over it either
 
2013-02-05 07:53:48 PM  
Someone needs to write a Java VM in .net
 
2013-02-05 07:59:06 PM  

jonathandh: I think the last time anybody intentionally "Asked Jeeves" was probably in the mid-90's


1993 to be exact.
emsworth.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-06 07:00:39 AM  
Because that 1 click it takes not to install the toolbar is just too much effort.
 
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