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(Sydney Morning Herald)   The 10 Commandments for atheists. Thou shalt not eat babies strangely absent from list   (smh.com.au) divider line 229
    More: Interesting, atheists, Ash Wednesday, Charlton Heston  
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11385 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2013 at 8:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-05 11:36:12 AM  

Farking Canuck: oryx: Why be an atheist if you gotta have commandments?

We don't have commandments.

This one person wants atheism to be religion-like. He will not get what he wants.


With some, he will. Even many self-identified atheists seem to desperately require a "code", a central, inviolate, externally defined moral centre. That sort usually turns to religion eventually though, as more secular structures fail to fulfill that need.

Most will reject it; he is at best an apologist.
 
2013-02-05 11:48:05 AM  

badscooter:


Where is that from?
 
2013-02-05 11:48:24 AM  

saomai: Couldn't take it seriously or read much further after commandment #2:

Empathy: The capacity to connect imaginatively with the sufferings and unique experiences of another person.


I imagining that I lost my children in the most recent school shooting.  I imagining that I am homeless on the street.  UGH.  Let's imagine our life away!!


Spoken like a true conservative.

Slaves2Darkness: I can show you my dick, shove it in your mouth where you can taste it, shove it in your ass where you can feel it.


AverageAmericanGuy: Do you accept that there are people who believe in God?


I accept that there are people with blue eyes.  My eyes are green.  I don't "reject" having blue eyes.  I simply don't have them.
 
2013-02-05 11:48:52 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: badscooter:

Where is that from?


Facebook, I presume. The stupid tends to settle there.
 
2013-02-05 11:52:01 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: I can show you my dick, shove it in your mouth where you can taste it, shove it in your ass where you can feel it.


Dammit.

weknowmemes.com
 
2013-02-05 11:54:25 AM  

Z-clipped: Slaves2Darkness: I can show you my dick, shove it in your mouth where you can taste it, shove it in your ass where you can feel it.

Dammit.

[weknowmemes.com image 240x180]


Notice that he didn't mention the senses of smell and hearing.

//Ew.
 
2013-02-05 11:58:00 AM  

aagrajag: Z-clipped: Slaves2Darkness: I can show you my dick, shove it in your mouth where you can taste it, shove it in your ass where you can feel it.

Dammit.

[weknowmemes.com image 240x180]

Notice that he didn't mention the senses of smell and hearing.

//Ew.


The roar of the greasedtaint, the smell of the crowd?
 
2013-02-05 11:58:10 AM  

saomai: Couldn't take it seriously or read much further after commandment #2:

Empathy: The capacity to connect imaginatively with the sufferings and unique experiences of another person.


I imagining that I lost my children in the most recent school shooting.  I imagining that I am homeless on the street.  UGH.  Let's imagine our life away!!


Let's imagine there's a sky wizard and we'll be reunited in his realm to rock out on...harps?

Y'know what? Hell has the babes and the music.
 
2013-02-05 11:58:15 AM  
Christianity is perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that Christians make. Most of us believe that there is a God who was involved in creation (not necessarily 6 days/6k years), that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God (when interpreted correctly which is where the trouble starts) and that there is more to the world than can be explained by empirical observation. In some extreme views of Christianity, violence and legal coercion are considered acceptable methods of dealing with those who disagree.

Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make. Atheists seem to believe that the only valuable knowledge is empirical knowledge. Other forms of knowledge are inferior and dismissed. Anyone who does not hold to their ontological and epistemological presuppositions is irrational, and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.

As a Christian, I don't have an issue with atheists, or people of other faith traditions. You have a set of beliefs that you have arrived at based on a set of presuppositions and life experiences. Your presuppositions and life experiences differ from mine and so you have reached a different conclusion. I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?
 
2013-02-05 12:02:05 PM  

aagrajag: Martian_Astronomer: badscooter:

Where is that from?

Facebook, I presume. The stupid tends to settle there.




It's worse. I found it on 4chan /b/.
 
2013-02-05 12:09:28 PM  

badscooter: aagrajag: Martian_Astronomer: badscooter:

Where is that from?

Facebook, I presume. The stupid tends to settle there.

It's worse. I found it on 4chan /b/.


I truly hate to say this, but they probably got it from Facebook, then used it to troll.
 
2013-02-05 12:11:11 PM  

badscooter: [i.imgur.com image 800x574]


Christians apparently can't spell worth a damn either.
 
2013-02-05 12:12:06 PM  

monkey_licker: Christianity is perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that Christians make. Most of us believe that there is a God who was involved in creation (not necessarily 6 days/6k years), that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God (when interpreted correctly which is where the trouble starts) and that there is more to the world than can be explained by empirical observation. In some extreme views of Christianity, violence and legal coercion are considered acceptable methods of dealing with those who disagree.

Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make. Atheists seem to believe that the only valuable knowledge is empirical knowledge. Other forms of knowledge are inferior and dismissed. Anyone who does not hold to their ontological and epistemological presuppositions is irrational, and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.

As a Christian, I don't have an issue with atheists, or people of other faith traditions. You have a set of beliefs that you have arrived at based on a set of presuppositions and life experiences. Your presuppositions and life experiences differ from mine and so you have reached a different conclusion. I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?


Because you claim your life experiences and presuppositions are above testing, challenge and scrutiny, and should be accepted without question. You're privileged and offended when your privilege is attacked.

Atheists are saying, "I don't believe you, show your work," and your response is, "Well my personal anecdotes are perfectly good evidence!" and we say back, "No they're not. Demonstrate the validity of your claims," and you can't, so you drop back to the, "Well, EVERYONE presupposes and is irrational sometimes, so my irrationality is as good as anyone's! Take that, atheists!"

Don't project your framework onto us and claim that because we dismiss your claims, we're as irrational as you are.
 
2013-02-05 12:14:20 PM  

monkey_licker: Christianity is perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that Christians make. Most of us believe that there is a God who was involved in creation (not necessarily 6 days/6k years), that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God (when interpreted correctly which is where the trouble starts) and that there is more to the world than can be explained by empirical observation. In some extreme views of Christianity, violence and legal coercion are considered acceptable methods of dealing with those who disagree.

Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make. Atheists seem to believe that the only valuable knowledge is empirical knowledge. Other forms of knowledge are inferior and dismissed. Anyone who does not hold to their ontological and epistemological presuppositions is irrational, and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.


Odd. I'm an "atheist" - and yet, I believe none of that. I am sure that there are some "atheists" who do believe some of those things - but, apparently, they are not intrinsic or necessary to "atheism".
 
2013-02-05 12:16:51 PM  

monkey_licker: Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make.


The point is to make as few presuppositions as possible.  You're ascribing presuppositions to atheists that are really just re-statements of your own bald assertions.  99.99% of atheists don't deny the possibility of a god's existence.  We just tend to assign it a more realistic probability (on par with that of unicorns and the Tooth Fairy) since we realize that wanting something to be true doesn't actually increase its likelihood.

monkey_licker: and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.


Whothewhatnow?

monkey_licker: I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?


Burning people at the stake, decrying them as incapable of morality, and passing laws that force them to the sidelines of society are not quite the same as making some smug remarks on the internet.   Have some perspective.
 
2013-02-05 12:17:50 PM  

sdromeo: badscooter: [i.imgur.com image 800x574]

Christians apparently can't spell worth a damn either.


They don't actually read that book, you know.
 
2013-02-05 12:19:52 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: 11. Don't be a dick because you have a different opinion

/actually thats for everyone


So much this!
/Tolerant Christian
 
2013-02-05 12:21:35 PM  

Z-clipped: monkey_licker: Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make.

The point is to make as few presuppositions as possible.  You're ascribing presuppositions to atheists that are really just re-statements of your own bald assertions.  99.99% of atheists don't deny the possibility of a god's existence.  We just tend to assign it a more realistic probability (on par with that of unicorns and the Tooth Fairy) since we realize that wanting something to be true doesn't actually increase its likelihood.

monkey_licker: and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.

Whothewhatnow?

monkey_licker: I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?

Burning people at the stake, decrying them as incapable of morality, and passing laws that force them to the sidelines of society are not quite the same as making some smug remarks on the internet.   Have some perspective.


Hey now, they haven't done that since we removed their legal ability to do so; credit where credit is due, right?
 
2013-02-05 12:22:06 PM  

skinink: And unfortunately that article was about as long as the Book of Exodus.


Leviticus wasn't any shorter.  Reading Old Testament Law gave me a migraine.
 
2013-02-05 12:25:07 PM  
Wow, people really can't deal with atheism not being a religion, can they?
 
2013-02-05 12:30:39 PM  

Surool: Wow, people really can't deal with atheism not being a religion, can they?


It's how they view the world. Absolute, rigid, unalterable rules. I understand that there are those who do not share my worldview; they cannot.
 
2013-02-05 12:31:40 PM  

aagrajag: Z-clipped: monkey_licker: Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make.

The point is to make as few presuppositions as possible.  You're ascribing presuppositions to atheists that are really just re-statements of your own bald assertions.  99.99% of atheists don't deny the possibility of a god's existence.  We just tend to assign it a more realistic probability (on par with that of unicorns and the Tooth Fairy) since we realize that wanting something to be true doesn't actually increase its likelihood.

monkey_licker: and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.

Whothewhatnow?

monkey_licker: I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?

Burning people at the stake, decrying them as incapable of morality, and passing laws that force them to the sidelines of society are not quite the same as making some smug remarks on the internet.   Have some perspective.

Hey now, they haven't done that since we removed their legal ability to do so; credit where credit is due, right?


Well, the other night I was at a restaurant, and a Christian line cook burned... my steak... so close enough. 

/I said mid-rare, you Jesus-loving heretic!
 
2013-02-05 12:32:24 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: There is but one atheist commandment: reject God.

All else is handwaving and bluster.


7/10
 
2013-02-05 12:32:52 PM  

WordyGrrl: What people like AverageAmericanTroll fail to grasp is that atheists also do not believe that Satan exists. Bad things happen in this world because bad human beings make them happen, and quite often they use "I'm doing God's Will" as an excuse for their bad behavior.


i1197.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-05 12:34:28 PM  

Z-clipped: aagrajag: Z-clipped: monkey_licker: Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make.

The point is to make as few presuppositions as possible.  You're ascribing presuppositions to atheists that are really just re-statements of your own bald assertions.  99.99% of atheists don't deny the possibility of a god's existence.  We just tend to assign it a more realistic probability (on par with that of unicorns and the Tooth Fairy) since we realize that wanting something to be true doesn't actually increase its likelihood.

monkey_licker: and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.

Whothewhatnow?

monkey_licker: I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?

Burning people at the stake, decrying them as incapable of morality, and passing laws that force them to the sidelines of society are not quite the same as making some smug remarks on the internet.   Have some perspective.

Hey now, they haven't done that since we removed their legal ability to do so; credit where credit is due, right?

Well, the other night I was at a restaurant, and a Christian line cook burned... my steak... so close enough. 

/I said mid-rare, you Jesus-loving heretic!


Ah. Anything below "medium" they view as a potential legal risk.

//try ordering a steak "blue"
 
2013-02-05 12:44:51 PM  

jso2897: AverageAmericanGuy: jso2897: AverageAmericanGuy: aagrajag: AverageAmericanGuy: aagrajag: AverageAmericanGuy: There is but one atheist commandment: reject belief in a God.

All else is handwaving and bluster.

You left something out. Slight difference, there.

Being an atheist doesn't mean you have to reject that others can believe in God. Just that you reject God.

Dude, you trollin' again? I accept that others' belief in God exists. I have none. I reject the concept as unsupported by reason or evidence.

Of course, if I did accept the existence of the Christian god, I would still reject it. I don't like genocide half as much as that asshole.

Refuse to believe in God, Reject God. Eh. It's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

How can I "reject" that which I never possessed the capacity to accept to begin with? Would you say that I "refuse" to sprout wings and fly? It may not be as easy to comprehend what goes on in other people's heads as you seem to think it is.

Do you accept that there are people who believe in God?

I accept that there are people who say they do - and I can't question it, because I have no real idea of what they are talking about. If someone said they believed in "Bippityboppityboo" I wouldn't be in any position to argue with them, either.


i1197.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-05 12:49:04 PM  

I drunk what: Thou shalt not murder, lie, steal, ... LULZ just kidding (only retards would be dumb enough to fall for that stuff)

1.   We own Science, so be sure to use a smug tone when condescending to the muggles "aka religious folk"
2.   We own Logic and Reason, so constantly remind the religious people how irrational they are.
3.  The only things that deserve worship is that beautiful most perfect person In The Mirror, and if you have time give praise to the saints Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Nietzsche, PZ Meyers, etc..
4.  It's OK to pretend to tolerate the lesser of our kind who invoke the saying "I'm OK you're OK", since they are the only way we can infiltrate the religious and  subvert their moral base, but in the end just remember not to make it too obvious that you are pretending, even morans will accidentally notice if you over do it.
5.   Openly mock the religious people and slander them by any means possible.  But worry not, the retards aren't intelligent enough to notice, and even the ones that do think they must be polite when taking abuse, lulz, so let them have it don't hold back.
6.  I'm OK you're OK.  (wink wink nudge nudge)
7.  Hate God with all your Body, Spirit and Mind
8.  Nature is stuff you can touch with your tongue.
9.   Sex, drugs and rock n roll... FOR SCIENCE!!1! vote democrat
10.   Kill all the Christians and any sympathizers, lolz just kidding, I'm OK you're OK, seriously though yeah.


The bolded bits there...
i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-05 01:00:46 PM  

monkey_licker: Christianity is perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that Christians make. Most of us believe that there is a God who was involved in creation (not necessarily 6 days/6k years), that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God (when interpreted correctly which is where the trouble starts) and that there is more to the world than can be explained by empirical observation. In some extreme views of Christianity, violence and legal coercion are considered acceptable methods of dealing with those who disagree.

Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make. Atheists seem to believe that the only valuable knowledge is empirical knowledge. Other forms of knowledge are inferior and dismissed. Anyone who does not hold to their ontological and epistemological presuppositions is irrational, and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.

As a Christian, I don't have an issue with atheists, or people of other faith traditions. You have a set of beliefs that you have arrived at based on a set of presuppositions and life experiences. Your presuppositions and life experiences differ from mine and so you have reached a different conclusion. I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?



Because your side is just a bunch of poopy-heads.
 
2013-02-05 01:04:10 PM  
Actually, there is one thing to remember as an atheist (although there is no one to command it):

"Don't be a dick"
 
2013-02-05 01:08:13 PM  

Surool: Actually, there is one thing to remember as an atheist (although there is no one to command it):

"Don't be a dick"


I try, but when a 45-year old man, with a family and bachelor's degree in engineering tells me that there's a man in the sky with whom he telepathically communicates, the odd giggle is liable to slip out.
 
2013-02-05 01:12:20 PM  

aagrajag: Farking Canuck: oryx: Why be an atheist if you gotta have commandments?

We don't have commandments.

This one person wants atheism to be religion-like. He will not get what he wants.

With some, he will. Even many self-identified atheists seem to desperately require a "code", a central, inviolate, externally defined moral centre. That sort usually turns to religion eventually though, as more secular structures fail to fulfill that need.

Most will reject it; he is at best an apologist.


I'm atheist and already pretty much live by those rules. I don't see the harm in having them on paper. Our laws are largely based on the same sorts of guidelines, because that is what is needed to make society work. No killing, don't take what's not yours, treat people with respect.

/puzzled why other non-believers are upset about this list
 
2013-02-05 01:14:00 PM  

aagrajag: Surool: Actually, there is one thing to remember as an atheist (although there is no one to command it):

"Don't be a dick"

I try, but when a 45-year old man, with a family and bachelor's degree in engineering tells me that there's a man in the sky with whom he telepathically communicates, the odd giggle is liable to slip out.


That isn't being a dick unless you pulled a militant atheist by shouting, "Shut up! I don't believe in your sky wizard monkey god!"
 
2013-02-05 01:14:06 PM  

miss diminutive: There's no consequences involved with not adhering to them.


Well, there are consequences - they're just mundane consequences of the actions you and others take rather than supernatural punishment imposed from on high.
 
2013-02-05 01:21:35 PM  
dopekitty74: I'm atheist and already pretty much live by those rules. I don't see the harm in having them on paper. Our laws are largely based on the same sorts of guidelines, because that is what is needed to make society work. No killing, don't take what's not yours, treat people with respect.

/puzzled why other non-believers are upset about this list


Because we are not a group. We have no leaders ... no authority ... no books ... and certainly no commandments.

All we have in common is a lack of belief that gods are real.

It is not that we do not live by rules of society ... it is that these rules have nothing to do with atheism. Trying to assign them to atheism is stupid and pointless.
 
2013-02-05 01:24:38 PM  

Surool: aagrajag: Surool: Actually, there is one thing to remember as an atheist (although there is no one to command it):

"Don't be a dick"

I try, but when a 45-year old man, with a family and bachelor's degree in engineering tells me that there's a man in the sky with whom he telepathically communicates, the odd giggle is liable to slip out.

That isn't being a dick unless you pulled a militant atheist by shouting, "Shut up! I don't believe in your sky wizard monkey god!"


I only do that here. Which is more respect than I am given when their canvassers ignore my "No proselytising" signs. (In two languages, no less)
 
2013-02-05 01:25:57 PM  

jso2897: Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make. Atheists seem to believe that the only valuable knowledge is empirical knowledge. Other forms of knowledge are inferior and dismissed.


This is a strawman ... please do not tell us, a vast, culturally and educationally diverse group, what we think and/or why we think it.

For most atheists it boils down to this: The religious claim god is real. The atheists asks to see the evidence supporting this claim. The religious offer none.

It is this simple: Non-trivial claims require evidence. Extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence.
 
2013-02-05 01:28:16 PM  

aagrajag: I only do that here. Which is more respect than I am given when their canvassers ignore my "No proselytising" signs. (In two languages, no less)


I suspect that religious canvassers do not know what "proselytizing" means. Try changing you sign to "Please don't spew your god crap at me".
 
2013-02-05 01:31:59 PM  

Farking Canuck: aagrajag: I only do that here. Which is more respect than I am given when their canvassers ignore my "No proselytising" signs. (In two languages, no less)

I suspect that religious canvassers do not know what "proselytizing" means. Try changing you sign to "Please don't spew your god crap at me".


The Japanese ones (usually Jehova's witlesses) tend to respect it. The Mormon missionaries, however...
 
2013-02-05 01:35:41 PM  

Farking Canuck: aagrajag: I only do that here. Which is more respect than I am given when their canvassers ignore my "No proselytising" signs. (In two languages, no less)

I suspect that religious canvassers do not know what "proselytizing" means. Try changing you sign to "Please don't spew your god crap at me".


The handwritten sign on my door reads:

No proselytising, please.
宣教謝絶
 
2013-02-05 01:46:33 PM  

Farking Canuck: aagrajag: I only do that here. Which is more respect than I am given when their canvassers ignore my "No proselytising" signs. (In two languages, no less)

I suspect that religious canvassers do not know what "proselytizing" means. Try changing you sign to "Please don't spew your god crap at me".


If (as I suspect) aagrajag lives in Japan, there is a good chance the religious are educated enough to know what "proselytizing" means.
 
2013-02-05 01:57:27 PM  

Surool: Farking Canuck: aagrajag: I only do that here. Which is more respect than I am given when their canvassers ignore my "No proselytising" signs. (In two languages, no less)

I suspect that religious canvassers do not know what "proselytizing" means. Try changing you sign to "Please don't spew your god crap at me".

If (as I suspect) aagrajag lives in Japan, there is a good chance the religious are educated enough to know what "proselytizing" means.


He does and they do. Their English is usually quite good, too. The American Mormons, I let give their sales-pitch in English. Then I reply in French. :)
 
2013-02-05 02:02:16 PM  

Lady Sally: You don't believe in your own elbows?


i'm agnostic about them, you can't prove a negative

Two16: I drunk what: Thou shalt not murder, lie, steal, ... LULZ just kidding (only retards would be dumb enough to fall for that stuff)

1.   We own Science, so be sure to use a smug tone when condescending to the muggles "aka religious folk"
2.   We own Logic and Reason, so constantly remind the religious people how irrational they are.
3.  The only things that deserve worship is that beautiful most perfect person In The Mirror, and if you have time give praise to the saints Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Nietzsche, PZ Meyers, etc..
4.  It's OK to pretend to tolerate the lesser of our kind who invoke the saying "I'm OK you're OK", since they are the only way we can infiltrate the religious and  subvert their moral base, but in the end just remember not to make it too obvious that you are pretending, even morans will accidentally notice if you over do it.
5.   Openly mock the religious people and slander them by any means possible.  But worry not, the retards aren't intelligent enough to notice, and even the ones that do think they must be polite when taking abuse, lulz, so let them have it don't hold back.
6.  I'm OK you're OK.  (wink wink nudge nudge)
7.  Hate God with all your Body, Spirit and Mind
8.  Nature is stuff you can touch with your tongue.
9.   Sex, drugs and rock n roll... FOR SCIENCE!!1! vote democrat
10.   Kill all the Christians and any sympathizers, lolz just kidding, I'm OK you're OK, seriously though yeah.

The bolded bits there...
[i2.kym-cdn.com image 379x214]


of course you're ok with it, they are the 10 commandments, duh

i'm ok you're ok, death to christians!

FOR SCIENCE!!1!

aagrajag: I wasn't even entirely certain about which group of people he was attempting to troll.


The Intelligence Brigade is not a troll, we are serious business

if you got a problem with our views, we'll just have your posts deleted, so get bent
 
2013-02-05 02:05:23 PM  

I drunk what: Lady Sally: You don't believe in your own elbows?

i'm agnostic about them, you can't prove a negative

Two16: I drunk what: Thou shalt not murder, lie, steal, ... LULZ just kidding (only retards would be dumb enough to fall for that stuff)

1.   We own Science, so be sure to use a smug tone when condescending to the muggles "aka religious folk"
2.   We own Logic and Reason, so constantly remind the religious people how irrational they are.
3.  The only things that deserve worship is that beautiful most perfect person In The Mirror, and if you have time give praise to the saints Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Nietzsche, PZ Meyers, etc..
4.  It's OK to pretend to tolerate the lesser of our kind who invoke the saying "I'm OK you're OK", since they are the only way we can infiltrate the religious and  subvert their moral base, but in the end just remember not to make it too obvious that you are pretending, even morans will accidentally notice if you over do it.
5.   Openly mock the religious people and slander them by any means possible.  But worry not, the retards aren't intelligent enough to notice, and even the ones that do think they must be polite when taking abuse, lulz, so let them have it don't hold back.
6.  I'm OK you're OK.  (wink wink nudge nudge)
7.  Hate God with all your Body, Spirit and Mind
8.  Nature is stuff you can touch with your tongue.
9.   Sex, drugs and rock n roll... FOR SCIENCE!!1! vote democrat
10.   Kill all the Christians and any sympathizers, lolz just kidding, I'm OK you're OK, seriously though yeah.

The bolded bits there...
[i2.kym-cdn.com image 379x214]

of course you're ok with it, they are the 10 commandments, duh

i'm ok you're ok, death to christians!

FOR SCIENCE!!1!

aagrajag: I wasn't even entirely certain about which group of people he was attempting to troll.

The Intelligence Brigade is not a troll, we are serious business

if you got a problem with our views, we'll just have your posts deleted, so get bent


Well done; I can no longer even attempt to tell if you are trying to troll, or just drunk.

Godspeed!
 
2013-02-05 02:07:06 PM  

verbaltoxin: monkey_licker: Christianity is perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that Christians make. Most of us believe that there is a God who was involved in creation (not necessarily 6 days/6k years), that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God (when interpreted correctly which is where the trouble starts) and that there is more to the world than can be explained by empirical observation. In some extreme views of Christianity, violence and legal coercion are considered acceptable methods of dealing with those who disagree.

Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make. Atheists seem to believe that the only valuable knowledge is empirical knowledge. Other forms of knowledge are inferior and dismissed. Anyone who does not hold to their ontological and epistemological presuppositions is irrational, and in some extreme branches of atheism, worthy of destruction.

As a Christian, I don't have an issue with atheists, or people of other faith traditions. You have a set of beliefs that you have arrived at based on a set of presuppositions and life experiences. Your presuppositions and life experiences differ from mine and so you have reached a different conclusion. I don't understand why it can't be that simple. Why does either side feel compelled to denigrate and attack anyone who disagrees?

Because you claim your life experiences and presuppositions are above testing, challenge and scrutiny, and should be accepted without question. You're privileged and offended when your privilege is attacked.


Please show me where I made that claim. I simply said that there is no proof I could offer you that would meet your definition of empirical proof. You demand a type of proof that I can't provide because I have a fundamentally different worldview. I am OK with that - are you?

Atheists are saying, "I don't believe you, show your work," and your response is, "Well my personal anecdotes are perfectly good evidence!" and we say back, "No they're not. Demonstrate the validity of your claims," and you can't, so you drop back to the, "Well, EVERYONE presupposes and is irrational sometimes, so my irrationality is as good as anyone's! Take that, atheists!"

I would never say my anecdotes are perfectly good evidence. I would say that two thousand plus years of personal anecdotes are worthy of consideration. If those experiences align with my own experiences then I feel compelled to consider the validity of their claims. Presupposition isn't irrational, it just is. We live in a world of presuppositions. They are intellectual shortcuts that help us live effective lives instead of constantly revisiting each decision. Hopefully we examine our presuppositions occasionally and are willing to change if the underpinnings of those presuppositions prove faulty.
 
2013-02-05 02:07:23 PM  

Farking Canuck: jso2897: Atheism is also perfectly rational, if you make the same presuppositions that atheists make. Atheists seem to believe that the only valuable knowledge is empirical knowledge. Other forms of knowledge are inferior and dismissed.

This is a strawman ... please do not tell us, a vast, culturally and educationally diverse group, what we think and/or why we think it.

For most atheists it boils down to this: The religious claim god is real. The atheists asks to see the evidence supporting this claim. The religious offer none.

It is this simple: Non-trivial claims require evidence. Extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence.


I can accept this.  As someone mentioned upthread, if there were evidence of god, then a leap of faith wouldn't be necessary.  I study mathematics and eventually our known/developed mathematics still cannot "define" certain terms (div by zero, indeterminate forms, etc, is a set a subset of itself).  Even in math their are paradoxes that we have to accept that the current structure cannot explain or reason an answer too.

I feel ones belief in god is similar to emotions.  Atheists ask for proof of god, a valid question that one cannot provide evidence of proof, so one must accept the possibility that god might not exist.

Do you believe in happiness/sadness?  Can you prove that you are happy/sad?  How do you prove to someone else that you are happy?  you can provide a string of evidence and we can inductively reason that you are happy, but can you deductively prove you are happy?

I propose that is why expressions like "felt the presence of god" exist.  It is an emotional ideal, not a physical/empirical one.  I believe god does exist and it is the something that put this big ball of wax together and is something beyond my comprehension.  Does that mean I still won't try to comprehend god? no, we are over curious creatures.  But I do feel god exists and he has created a wonderful world for us to exist in and explore.  There is so much wonderful structure and order to everything, I can't help but wonder if there is a reason. it is truly amazing.

I still propose that belief in religion is a much more destructive force than a belief in god.
 
2013-02-05 02:10:32 PM  

I drunk what: aagrajag: AverageAmericanGuy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: AverageAmericanGuy: aagrajag: AverageAmericanGuy: jso2897:

How can I "reject" that which I never possessed the capacity to accept to begin with? Would you say that I "refuse" to sprout wings and fly? It may not be as easy to comprehend what goes on in other people's heads as you seem to think it is.

Do you accept that there are people who believe in God?

Only grudgingly. It depresses me.

And you refuse to also believe?

If you're seriously leading up to the idea that not believing in the existence of something is the same as rejecting it, perhaps you'd let me know why you've rejected the check for $1m that I just placed in your hands

Are you comparing a physical thing (a check) with a spiritual thing (God)?

Note that AverageAmericanGuy has now subtly shifted the argument such that it now rests upon the definition of "spiritual". Which is easily one of the most vague, hazy concepts evar. You can't win here, guys.

can you touch it with your tongue? No. then it's not real and your an idiot who believes in unicorns, fairies and invisible sky wizards

you should not be allowed to own firearms

nice try religious retards


All four of the people that you replied to are professed Atheists or Anti-Theists.  Calling them religious retards shows your lack of reading comprehension.  Congrats on winning your award.
i1197.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-05 02:10:52 PM  

Z-clipped: Burning people at the stake, decrying them as incapable of morality, and passing laws that force them to the sidelines of society are not quite the same as making some smug remarks on the internet.   Have some perspective.


I don't know. How about Stalin, Mao, the Khmer Rouge. They killed millions of Christians and others that disagreed with their worldview, and they were atheists. Ugly, violent behavior against those in the opposition is not limited to Christianity.
 
2013-02-05 02:12:30 PM  

FTDA: I drunk what: aagrajag: AverageAmericanGuy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: AverageAmericanGuy: aagrajag: AverageAmericanGuy: jso2897:

How can I "reject" that which I never possessed the capacity to accept to begin with? Would you say that I "refuse" to sprout wings and fly? It may not be as easy to comprehend what goes on in other people's heads as you seem to think it is.

Do you accept that there are people who believe in God?

Only grudgingly. It depresses me.

And you refuse to also believe?

If you're seriously leading up to the idea that not believing in the existence of something is the same as rejecting it, perhaps you'd let me know why you've rejected the check for $1m that I just placed in your hands

Are you comparing a physical thing (a check) with a spiritual thing (God)?

Note that AverageAmericanGuy has now subtly shifted the argument such that it now rests upon the definition of "spiritual". Which is easily one of the most vague, hazy concepts evar. You can't win here, guys.

can you touch it with your tongue? No. then it's not real and your an idiot who believes in unicorns, fairies and invisible sky wizards

you should not be allowed to own firearms

nice try religious retards

All four of the people that you replied to are professed Atheists or Anti-Theists.  Calling them religious retards shows your lack of reading comprehension.  Congrats on winning your award.
[i1197.photobucket.com image 399x582]


no thanks, i already got one didn't you notice the badge next to my logon? work the jaw sweety
 
2013-02-05 02:15:16 PM  

Farking Canuck: This is a strawman ... please do not tell us, a vast, culturally and educationally diverse group, what we think and/or why we think it.

For most atheists it boils down to this: The religious claim god is real. The atheists asks to see the evidence supporting this claim. The religious offer none.

It is this simple: Non-trivial claims require evidence. Extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence.


You aren't saying anything different from what I said. You are asking for empirical evidence. It is the only evidence atheists will accept. There is a fundamental mismatch because that request is based on the assumption that empirical knowledge is the only valid type of knowledge. I do not live under that assumption.
 
2013-02-05 02:21:13 PM  

I drunk what: Lady Sally: You don't believe in your own elbows?

i'm agnostic about them, you can't prove a negative

Two16: I drunk what: Thou shalt not murder, lie, steal, ... LULZ just kidding (only retards would be dumb enough to fall for that stuff)

1.   We own Science, so be sure to use a smug tone when condescending to the muggles "aka religious folk"
2.   We own Logic and Reason, so constantly remind the religious people how irrational they are.
3.  The only things that deserve worship is that beautiful most perfect person In The Mirror, and if you have time give praise to the saints Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Nietzsche, PZ Meyers, etc..
4.  It's OK to pretend to tolerate the lesser of our kind who invoke the saying "I'm OK you're OK", since they are the only way we can infiltrate the religious and  subvert their moral base, but in the end just remember not to make it too obvious that you are pretending, even morans will accidentally notice if you over do it.
5.   Openly mock the religious people and slander them by any means possible.  But worry not, the retards aren't intelligent enough to notice, and even the ones that do think they must be polite when taking abuse, lulz, so let them have it don't hold back.
6.  I'm OK you're OK.  (wink wink nudge nudge)
7.  Hate God with all your Body, Spirit and Mind
8.   Nature is stuff you can touch with your tongue.
9.   Sex, drugs and rock n roll... FOR SCIENCE!!1! vote democrat
10.   Kill all the Christians and any sympathizers, lolz just kidding, I'm OK you're OK, seriously though yeah.


The bolded bits there...
[i2.kym-cdn.com image 379x214]

of course you're ok with it, they are the 10 commandments, duh

i'm ok you're ok, death to christians!

FOR SCIENCE!!1!

aagrajag: I wasn't even entirely certain about which group of people he was attempting to troll.

The Intelligence Brigade is not a troll, we are serious business

if you got a problem with our views, we'll just have your posts deleted, so get bent


No no no... please read my response, then post back to me.
 
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