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(APM Marketplace)   Would paying public school teachers a $125,000 salary improve student performance? One New York City school is trying it out   ( divider line
    More: Interesting, New York City, University of New York, student tests, students, salary, student achievement, special educations  
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5057 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2013 at 5:07 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-02-05 07:04:37 AM  
3 votes:

EZ Writer: Yes, teachers should be paid more. But, if you really want student performance to increase, you have to find a way to increase the parent give a f*ck factor. That's a major part of the problem... And for crying out loud, stop teaching to the ridiculous SOL test! It's nothing but a handcuff.

My wife is a public school teacher, making me an indisputable expert.

Thread over.

Where exactly does your wife work that none of her co-workers are part of the problem?  "Poorly educated" or "failing to give even the minimum required number of farks" described about 3/4 of the teachers when I worked public schools.

Actually I'd say that something like half the reason the US trails in most subjects at the primary/secondary level is that we allow people to teach with an "education" degree, which is a major that people with real degrees in undergrad use as shorthand to insult each others' intelligence.

And half the remaining problems are a complete lack of teacher accountability for anything short of a major felony.  I mean, look at the anti-standardized test people.  They're not suggesting some better form of performance metric, they're suggesting that  teachers arbitrarily get to rate their own performance, with a monetary incentive to say they're doing well.  And with the way the unions work in some states no one can get fired, ever.

But sure, blame the other 25% on the parents, go for it.  That said, we cannot magically force people to behave responsibly on their own time.  Instead of passing the buck every time the issue comes up, primary/secondary needs to get its own house in order.

//Teacher salaries are actually perfectly in-line with other jobs requiring generalist or academic degrees.  The "not paid enough" line hasn't been valid since like the 1970s, if then.
2013-02-05 06:28:28 AM  
2 votes:
I was a sixth grade teacher 17 years ago, an eager, energetic young man with visions of doing good for the world through dedication to this profession, and boy did it humble me.  What a horrible, horrible job that was.  I cried like a baby on many Sunday nights, knowing that no matter what I did, each day would be derailed into chaos by five or six students.  Nothing would stop them...because ultimately, their parents didn't care. 

To be the kind of person who can pull off consistent great teaching in today's world, one has to excel at many things...on one hand, being an empathetic person who's also creative, energetic and intelligent with subject matter.  On the other, a fantastic air-traffic controller.  That sort of skill set would earn you many times that amount of money in other professions!   And who, in their right mind, would do it?

I had the good personable skills and content intelligence, lacked the air traffic control skills, and paid the price.  After two years of a living Hell, the best thing I ever did was leave that profession.  I refused to give in and be a marine drill sargent who passed out worksheets all day in order to survive the job. 

All that for $26,900 in 1995. 

/Never psychologically recovered, either.  If you're like me in your first year and suicidal, DON'T stick it out for two years to prove how tough you are.
2013-02-05 06:24:09 AM  
2 votes:
Yes, teachers should be paid more. But, if you really want student performance to increase, you have to find a way to increase the parent give a f*ck factor. That's a major part of the problem... And for crying out loud, stop teaching to the ridiculous SOL test! It's nothing but a handcuff.

My wife is a public school teacher, making me an indisputable expert.

Thread over.
2013-02-05 01:16:53 AM  
2 votes:
Oh, forgot one...

d.) Stop blaming the teacher if a student is doing poorly

Yes, if an entire class has poor performance, then the teacher and his/her abilities need to be looked at, and assistance or discipline needs to be applied. However, if it is only a few, then maybe, just maybe the problem is not with the teacher but with the student. So, stop blaming us if your precious little snowflake is screwing around and not doing the work and then ends up failing. Do some damn parenting and help us out by not producing little shiat-heads. :p
2013-02-04 11:57:52 PM  
2 votes:
And that's still not enough money to put up with all the little monsters.
2013-02-04 10:11:33 PM  
2 votes:
Would paying professional football, baseball, and basketball players $125K have any effect on their performance?
2013-02-05 07:58:38 AM  
1 vote:
Or, you know, we could cut out all this crap that every child can be an doctor or engineer and start teaching some of them that there's no shame in trades. We all had those kids in our classes we knew were never going to college but spent their weekends working on cars or building things. Sure, maybe they can't understand string theory or calculus but they could take apart and put back together a car with a butterknife or spot weld blindfolded. I'm a crane operator and I'm much happier working outside with my hands then I ever would have been in an office.
2013-02-05 07:45:18 AM  
1 vote:

great_tigers: End tenure and hold teachers more responsible for their students knowledge advancement.

If you pay more you might get some people who would otherwise do other things. Granted you'd have to accept that some of these people may have some slightly radical ideas, you may end up with math teachers who think anyone with a pulse can learn basic calculus, and worse, they'll prove it.
2013-02-05 07:26:34 AM  
1 vote:
Just raising a teacher's salary won't make them a better teacher. A shiatty teacher is a shiatty teacher at any price. The idea should be that the higher salary attracts people to the teaching profession who otherwise would have made more money in another business or industry.
2013-02-05 06:40:54 AM  
1 vote:
I doubt it. It would probably be better to hire more teachers or teacher assistants or tutors. I bet that smaller class sizes and more one-on-one time for those students who need it would help more.
2013-02-05 05:29:58 AM  
1 vote:
Isnt $125,000 in New York approximately equal to $37,000 in the "fly over states" ?
2013-02-05 02:22:05 AM  
1 vote:

BarkingUnicorn: tallguywithglasseson: BarkingUnicorn: Turnover may skyrocket due to burnout, but while they're their there they're they're there producing results

Sorry, pet peave.

WTF did you just do? LOL!

And it's "peeve."

2013-02-05 01:16:40 AM  
1 vote:

doglover: If we let them bet on the outcomes, and paid scientists athlete money, they would.

"And Dr. Filmore Bernstein has been traded to UC Berkeley. What effect do you think this will have on their salary cap, Nicolai?"

"Well Bernstein is one of the best theoretical physics hands-men out there, but UC Berkeley is already drowning in environmental science grad students. They may have to cut some of the team to make salary cap room."

"Won't that help their rivals at UCLA?"

"We'll just have to wait and see, Dave! That's what makes science education the best sport on earth!"
2013-02-05 01:06:26 AM  
1 vote:
While the increased pay would certainly help with motivation, it's not going to do a thing unless...

a.) administrators (and politicians) stop doing every asinine thing to interfere with how and what teachers teach
b.) teachers are properly trained on how to present material as well as having adequate knowledge of their subject (and given chances and adequate funding to do such training periodically)
c.) class sizes are decreased and classes are separated by ability

Hell, if I could have those three things happen (including being given adequate time and funding for b.) to happen to continue improving), I wouldn't need the pay raise (though it would, of course, be nice). Hell, I'd be willing to double my teaching hours for the same salary if it meant I could cut my class sizes in half and separate the halves based on ability and interest.

Granted, I'm not teaching in a US school system, so YMMV. But I have a feeling that those three things are pretty universal.

But still, I definitely wouldn't say no to a raise. ;)
2013-02-05 01:01:19 AM  
1 vote:

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: fusillade762: For the analogy to hold you'd have to measure the audience's performance.

I'm not joking here. I really wish throngs of drunken high school dropouts would get as excited for math and science test scores as they do professional sports.

If we let them bet on the outcomes, and paid scientists athlete money, they would.
2013-02-05 12:39:56 AM  
1 vote:
Please, for the love of god, let this strategy work.
2013-02-04 11:47:13 PM  
1 vote:
Teachers who don't have to work three jobs can plan better lessons.
2013-02-04 08:49:14 PM  
1 vote:
So, cut frills and make each teacher do two jobs.  Turnover may skyrocket due to burnout, but while they're there they're producing results.  Might work.
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-02-04 08:43:23 PM  
1 vote:
Although higher performance was promised by the labor unions, it didn't work for police departments.
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