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(Talking Points Memo)   Survivalists building a walled "Prepper" community get a gift from the ATF: They can now start legally manufacturing firearms. What's the worst that could happen?   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 577
    More: Fail, ATF, destructive device, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives  
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16912 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2013 at 8:59 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-04 11:20:52 PM  

kmmontandon: jehovahs witness protection: How is a law abiding company that goes through the right channels a FAIL subby?

Probably because these very people apparently have no cognitive dissonance from a.) Building an refuge from evil gun-grabbing tyranny, and b. ) that so-called tyrannical government issuing them a permit to manufacture firearms.

If this was the kind of country they claim it was, they wouldn't have gotten that permit.


Well put. +eleventy and an AR-15.
 
2013-02-04 11:21:25 PM  

Zeno-25: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 652x360]

That has got to be the trashiest, ugliest 1911 I have ever seen.

/gun owner
//won't be buying any Citadel firearms anytime soon


Neither will anybody else with any brains - it's a crappy-ass kit gun you can get anywhere cheaper.
But the "gun business" is just a prop in the scam - the object is to get money from investors and then do a fast fade.
The guy is a former extortionist, and the numbers don't add up to anything but a big fat scam.
 
2013-02-04 11:25:30 PM  
Some 4channer got this one custom

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-04 11:26:15 PM  

no talent ass clown: If these last few months of Fark have taught me anything it's that this doomsday colony won't last more than 6 months. With all of those guns floating around, half will accidentally shoot themselves while lamenting their small penises. Half will still be pissed off about never getting a prom date and shoot up a school. While this is going on, the third half will mistakenly get shot by white knight wannabe Rambos who are trying to shoot the school shooters. Brazilians will die and everyone will have small penises.


I'm pretty sure that Mr. Extortionist Guy will be in Costa Rica with the money long before that happens.
 
2013-02-04 11:26:44 PM  
the Citadel has already purchased 20 acres atop a mountain in Benewah County that we call our Beachhead

I think Masada is a catchier name than Beachhead.
 
2013-02-04 11:28:02 PM  

GUTSU: Are you trying to justify the deaths of 21 children?


Are you really that stupid?

Watch the initial raid where they shot federal agents executing a search warrant.

You really want to play that f*cking game with me? Justification of dead children? Justify, for me, the thousands of Iraqi children with no father because they were killed. Justify that. Police action? Protection of the force? All justifiable and got good men home to their families.

We have laws in this country. When an agent of our duly elected government shows up at your house with a search warrant signed by a judge you follow f*cking orders.

I will not play into your myopic fantasy of a government run amok. You sicken me with such notions. How many more people died after that day because of people like you. How many?

Cling to your Turner Diaries. It is truly all that you have in this world.
 
2013-02-04 11:28:39 PM  
I get a kick out of these separatists who LOVE to boast about how patriotic they are... while they plan on building a fortified, walled city to isolate themselves from the rest of the country they claim to love so much.

The word 'patriotic' has lost its meaning because of people like this.  This particular brand of crazy loves to throw it around like a corporate slogan.
 
2013-02-04 11:28:54 PM  

Frank N Stein: BSABSVR: Frank N Stein: Zeno-25: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 652x360]

That has got to be the trashiest, ugliest 1911 I have ever seen.

/gun owner
//won't be buying any Citadel firearms anytime soon

[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 230x150]

That looks like it transforms into Megatron

I googled "gaudy guns"

This poor, poor Thompson SMG
[www.thegunzone.com image 700x411]


Wait he did guns also.  I thought he only did ugly buildings.
 
2013-02-04 11:30:37 PM  

SurelyShirley: Old news.
There's already a Citadel in Los Angeles and it's prettier and way more American than the Idaho version:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x303]

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x389]

[i45.tinypic.com image 640x512]


CSB; About almost 30 years ago, when this was still an abandoned Firestone factory, I did sound for a student film about a post-apocalyptic police state in there.
 
2013-02-04 11:31:01 PM  

GUTSU: NewportBarGuy: GUTSU: Are you saying that the ATF didn't flood the compound with highly flammable tear gas?

I'm saying they should have respected the law of the land and surrendered to armed federal agents.

Are you trying to justify the deaths of 21 children?


Yes, that's exactly what he said.

/rolls eyes
//bangs head on door frame
 
2013-02-04 11:31:06 PM  

CygnusDarius: So, is there anything left that is made in America?.


T-bills
 
2013-02-04 11:31:20 PM  

simplicimus: After it's sold out, can we lock the gates from the outside?


Hell I say we subsidize it and get all the wing-nuts to move in, then pad lock it.

I hope they have enough land inside the falls to grow food for all the people.
 
2013-02-04 11:32:23 PM  

Bloody William: I'm still amused by a community resisting tyranny by centrally planning an entire city. That and the stupidity of building a walled city in Idaho. Because... that's a defensible concept against a modern military.


The important difference is their collective is -voluntary- the one the government makes is not.

The walled city isn't to protect against the US military. It's to protect against the roadwarrior hoards.

As to those wondering about the license, they probably didn't want to give the feds a reason to raid them. But the feds will wait. When and if the feds feel like it they'll use some paper work issue to raid them.
 
2013-02-04 11:33:26 PM  

GUTSU: NewportBarGuy: GUTSU: Are you saying that the ATF didn't flood the compound with highly flammable tear gas?

I'm saying they should have respected the law of the land and surrendered to armed federal agents.

Are you trying to justify the deaths of 21 children?


Meh, 21 dead children is just 21 more reasons for their parents to have some hot, wild monkey sex to make new children.  Oh wait, their parents are all crispy critters now.  Well, at least they died warm.
 
2013-02-04 11:33:46 PM  

leadmetal: Bloody William: I'm still amused by a community resisting tyranny by centrally planning an entire city. That and the stupidity of building a walled city in Idaho. Because... that's a defensible concept against a modern military.

The important difference is their collective is -voluntary- the one the government makes is not.

The walled city isn't to protect against the US military. It's to protect against the roadwarrior hoards.

As to those wondering about the license, they probably didn't want to give the feds a reason to raid them. But the feds will wait. When and if the feds feel like it they'll use some paper work issue to raid them.


I don't think anyone's forcing them to stay in the country. Last I checked, they could move to any other place that would take them.
 
2013-02-04 11:34:39 PM  

WraithSama: I get a kick out of these separatists who LOVE to boast about how patriotic they are... while they plan on building a fortified, walled city to isolate themselves from the rest of the country they claim to love so much.

The word 'patriotic' has lost its meaning because of people like this.  This particular brand of crazy loves to throw it around like a corporate slogan.


Like Tea Partiers - their grasp of history and freedom is tenuis at best.  But unlike Tea Partiers they are willing to live in the middle of no where and mostly mind their own business.  I don't have a problem with that.
 
2013-02-04 11:35:38 PM  

jtown: That's something I don't get about so many of these survivalist communities. Why do they set up shop in such inhospitable areas? It seems like areas with a longer growing season and less extreme winters would be better.


Because there's too many people who aren't white in those places.
 
2013-02-04 11:36:57 PM  

leadmetal: Bloody William: I'm still amused by a community resisting tyranny by centrally planning an entire city. That and the stupidity of building a walled city in Idaho. Because... that's a defensible concept against a modern military.

The important difference is their collective is -voluntary- the one the government makes is not.

The walled city isn't to protect against the US military. It's to protect against the roadwarrior hoards.

As to those wondering about the license, they probably didn't want to give the feds a reason to raid them. But the feds will wait. When and if the feds feel like it they'll use some paper work issue to raid them.


The collective we call America is indeed voluntary - if you don't like the way we the people run the place, you are free to leave. But if you choose to stay, you are obligated to contribute and follow the rules. Same as any other collective human society ever - and the same as this "Citadel" society would be if it were a real thing, and not a scam.
 
2013-02-04 11:37:13 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Oh noes, people want to live in their own community.  Everybody panic, dig up any minutia of dirt on them and call them crazy, we can't let this happen!!!

Seriously farkers, is there anything you're not afraid of?


Where do you get the impression anyone here is afraid of the "Preppers?" Do we think they are being scammed royally? Yes. Do we think that even if the Citadel were real, it wouldn't last long before it becomes its own little self-contained dystopia? Yes. Afeared? Hell no. And the only reason I would even be angry is if the Preppers act like hypocrites and don't totally cut themselves off from all the govenrment-supplied utilities and infrastructure that are going to supposedly disappear soon anyways.

These folks aren't "peace and free love living off nature" LIEburul hippie scum or anarcho-primitivists who want to return to the hunter-gatherer days. They are "the END is upon us!" paranoiacs. Add guns, Objectivist philosophy, and Medieval living conditions, and you have a recipe for a real-life Rapture. Enshrining paranoia and selfishness as core values does not a community make.
 
2013-02-04 11:38:56 PM  

gingerjet: WraithSama: I get a kick out of these separatists who LOVE to boast about how patriotic they are... while they plan on building a fortified, walled city to isolate themselves from the rest of the country they claim to love so much.

The word 'patriotic' has lost its meaning because of people like this.  This particular brand of crazy loves to throw it around like a corporate slogan.

Like Tea Partiers - their grasp of history and freedom is tenuis at best.  But unlike Tea Partiers they are willing to live in the middle of no where and mostly mind their own business.  I don't have a problem with that.


Bullshiat.  They won't mind their own business.  Just like the A/N complex, we're gonna see these chuckleheads in every bar in Spokane on a Friday night.  I have no intention of going through that shiat again.
 
2013-02-04 11:39:15 PM  

Troy McClure: If I had a bunch of money laying around, I'd use it to buy homes in that community to give to black people.


It would be better to give the homes to liberal gun owners!
 
2013-02-04 11:39:30 PM  
A bold social experiment. A community of heavily armed and fearful sociopaths placed together without any means of support in an inhospitable area and with no attempt at any social structure. Should be interesting and I'd like to watch it unfold from a safe distance.
 
2013-02-04 11:40:10 PM  
Patriot Act: The end of freedom and the beginning of a police state that serves the bloodthirsty rich!!

The Citadel: What's with these paranoid whackadoodles? Lets bomb them!
 
2013-02-04 11:40:32 PM  

gingerjet: WraithSama: I get a kick out of these separatists who LOVE to boast about how patriotic they are... while they plan on building a fortified, walled city to isolate themselves from the rest of the country they claim to love so much.

The word 'patriotic' has lost its meaning because of people like this.  This particular brand of crazy loves to throw it around like a corporate slogan.

Like Tea Partiers - their grasp of history and freedom is tenuis at best.  But unlike Tea Partiers they are willing to live in the middle of no where and mostly mind their own business.  I don't have a problem with that.


I agree. I think it would be great if this were a real thing.
 
2013-02-04 11:41:01 PM  

Nuff Said McFarky: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Oh noes, people want to live in their own community.  Everybody panic, dig up any minutia of dirt on them and call them crazy, we can't let this happen!!!

Seriously farkers, is there anything you're not afraid of?

Where do you get the impression anyone here is afraid of the "Preppers?" Do we think they are being scammed royally? Yes. Do we think that even if the Citadel were real, it wouldn't last long before it becomes its own little self-contained dystopia? Yes. Afeared? Hell no. And the only reason I would even be angry is if the Preppers act like hypocrites and don't totally cut themselves off from all the govenrment-supplied utilities and infrastructure that are going to supposedly disappear soon anyways.

These folks aren't "peace and free love living off nature" LIEburul hippie scum or anarcho-primitivists who want to return to the hunter-gatherer days. They are "the END is upon us!" paranoiacs. Add guns, Objectivist philosophy, and Medieval living conditions, and you have a recipe for a real-life Rapture. Enshrining paranoia and selfishness as core values does not a community make.


I get what you're saying, but if I may voice an opinion: You kinda shot your credibility in that last paragraph. I mean, I understand that you're angry that some people do not like the liberal political philosophy and enjoy gun ownership, but you don't have to go on a rant about those specific topics. Try to stay on point.
 
2013-02-04 11:42:30 PM  
every time I see the word prepper I see "pepper" and wonder if the story gets spicy
 
2013-02-04 11:43:28 PM  

m00: Good for them.

I don't see why everyone is complaining. I mean, at worst they've developed a city on principles of energy and food independence. I guarantee you they'll be using renewable energy resources and sustainable agriculture. People on the left should love this... a group of people not buying food from long supply chains, not polluting the environment, not buying bananas out-of-season from some tropical country with a monoculture, not running the AC all day in large mansions. They're out in the woods minimizing their carbon footprint. Yet you make fun of them for all of these lifestyle choices, because why? They happen to vote for candidates with an R next to their name instead of a D?

Seriously, reading the comments on this thread is sad.


I think you're reading a different set of comments than the ones on this thread.
 
2013-02-04 11:43:52 PM  
Damn man, what's with all the six month or less old troll accounts in this thread?  All the same guy?
 
2013-02-04 11:44:04 PM  

KarmicDisaster: inhospitable area


Benewah county doesn't seem too inhospitable. In fact, the "comfort index" is higher than the US average http://www.bestplaces.net/climate/county/idaho/benewah
 
2013-02-04 11:44:05 PM  

Bucky Katt: every time I see the word prepper I see "pepper" and wonder if the story gets spicy


It will when the fortress's founder takes the money and runs.

\ooh ooh ooh
 
2013-02-04 11:45:37 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: So shooting irritants into a compound with children in it was justified. Oh and did they find any illegal weapons, which I think the warrant was about?


Are you also pissed they used flashbangs today in a situation in which a child was present?
 
2013-02-04 11:45:51 PM  
Sounds like "the Citadel" is a classic commune. As in communist.
 
2013-02-04 11:47:21 PM  

kmmontandon: jehovahs witness protection: How is a law abiding company that goes through the right channels a FAIL subby?

Probably because these very people apparently have no cognitive dissonance from a.) Building an refuge from evil gun-grabbing tyranny, and b. ) that so-called tyrannical government issuing them a permit to manufacture firearms.

If this was the kind of country they claim it was, they wouldn't have gotten that permit.


pretty much yeah
 
2013-02-04 11:48:15 PM  

Flappyhead: cameroncrazy1984: Fubini: It's perfectly legal to build weapons for your own personal use (as long as you don't violate any other applicable regulations on type/size/capacity etc.) All this does is let them build guns that they can then legally sell to other people.

It's just funny that a group of people who think the government is out to get them...applied to the government for something.

You'd think they'd go ahead and do so without permission.  Oh wait that's right, they're actually pussies who just like to talk tough and carry a semi-auto.


I seriously doubt the main people behind it actually believe the crap they are saying.  I think to them the whole "Citadel project" is just a great marketing tool to sell their guns and make a healthy profit off of the paranoia of the anti-government/survivalist crowd.  They are not necessarily "pussies who just like to talk tough and carry a semi-auto", but more like people who hope to profit off of "pussies who just like to talk tough and carry a semi-auto".
 
2013-02-04 11:51:31 PM  
I've often toyed with the thought of what I would do in the case of extreme societal unrest. Although I don't act on any sort of preparations I do think of it, so perhaps I can be labeled a "thought prepper". But in any case, being in Chicago I'd probably just steal a sailboat in the harbor and make my way to rural north-western Michigan, where I have some family. And I'd fight pirates along the way.

As you can tell I've been giving this serious thought.
 
2013-02-04 11:53:05 PM  

Bucky Katt: Sounds like "the Citadel" is a classic commune. As in communist.


No, actually, it's classic capitalism - of the Charles Ponzi variety.
 
2013-02-04 11:53:49 PM  

jso2897: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Oh noes, people want to live in their own community.  Everybody panic, dig up any minutia of dirt on them and call them crazy, we can't let this happen!!!

Seriously farkers, is there anything you're not afraid of?

I can't speak for anybody else, but these clowns are one of many things I'm not afraid of. To me, and I suspect to many here, this crook's little ponzi scheme is light opera. Scarey? Not hardly.


He supports a group that is based on fear, while claiming others fear them.

Typical.
 
2013-02-04 11:53:54 PM  

Frank N Stein: I've often toyed with the thought of what I would do in the case of extreme societal unrest. Although I don't act on any sort of preparations I do think of it, so perhaps I can be labeled a "thought prepper". But in any case, being in Chicago I'd probably just steal a sailboat in the harbor and make my way to rural north-western Michigan, where I have some family. And I'd fight pirates along the way.

As you can tell I've been giving this serious thought.


If you live in chicago, you probably know at least a couple of pilots. If shiat gets real, I'm going straight to O'Hare, jumping a fence and getting into the first airplane I see with an open door
 
2013-02-04 11:54:48 PM  

Bloody William: This isn't a big deal. People who can build weapons will build weapons, and it's clear these guys are either too chickenshiat to do so without permission to begin with or too nuts to not do so if the government confirms their fears. If they start bombmaking or creating artillery or anti-air emplacements, then we'll have a problem.

I'm still amused by a community resisting tyranny by centrally planning an entire city. That and the stupidity of building a walled city in Idaho. Because... that's a defensible concept against a modern military.


One UGM-133 Trident II could take out such an easy target.
 
2013-02-04 11:54:50 PM  

PerilousApricot: Frank N Stein: I've often toyed with the thought of what I would do in the case of extreme societal unrest. Although I don't act on any sort of preparations I do think of it, so perhaps I can be labeled a "thought prepper". But in any case, being in Chicago I'd probably just steal a sailboat in the harbor and make my way to rural north-western Michigan, where I have some family. And I'd fight pirates along the way.

As you can tell I've been giving this serious thought.

If you live in chicago, you probably know at least a couple of pilots. If shiat gets real, I'm going straight to O'Hare, jumping a fence and getting into the first airplane I see with an open door


"Welcome aboard flight 832 to Detroit, Michigan. Thank you for flying Jet Blue"
 
2013-02-04 11:56:26 PM  

Frank N Stein: I've often toyed with the thought of what I would do in the case of extreme societal unrest. Although I don't act on any sort of preparations I do think of it, so perhaps I can be labeled a "thought prepper". But in any case, being in Chicago I'd probably just steal a sailboat in the harbor and make my way to rural north-western Michigan, where I have some family. And I'd fight pirates along the way.

As you can tell I've been giving this serious thought.


If our society utterly collapses, few will survive, and those that do will be the random beneficiaries of happenstance.
 
2013-02-04 11:56:34 PM  

rohar: Bullshiat.  They won't mind their own business.  Just like the A/N complex, we're gonna see these chuckleheads in every bar in Spokane on a Friday night.  I have no intention of going through that shiat again.


So they are going to a bar - who the fark cares?  At least they aren't sending complete fark'n idiots to Congress.
 
2013-02-04 11:56:40 PM  
 
2013-02-04 11:56:48 PM  

NewportBarGuy: GUTSU: Are you saying that the ATF didn't flood the compound with highly flammable tear gas?

I'm saying they should have respected the law of the land and surrendered to armed federal agents.


The whole thing was a clusterfark.  It wasn't helped by the disappearance of important evidence, like the doors, which could have illuminated conflicting accounts.  That Koresh was not complying with lawful orders is clear.  That the ATF did things wrong is clear.  How much culpability they had in the deaths of the Branch Davidians is a matter for debate.

/Anyone who complains about sending a drone to kill an American citizen should have a problem with how this went down.  No hostages, no immediate danger to the children, so why the actions that resulted in the deaths of citizens without trial?
 
2013-02-04 11:57:42 PM  

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: hasty ambush: Are they really that much different than these guys, aside having better personal hygiene, being better armed and kids knowing who their parents are?

Ha ha look at that guy in the back... Just waiting for those girls to get a little bit older....


I guess that means he's not a priest.
 
2013-02-04 11:57:53 PM  

jso2897: Frank N Stein: I've often toyed with the thought of what I would do in the case of extreme societal unrest. Although I don't act on any sort of preparations I do think of it, so perhaps I can be labeled a "thought prepper". But in any case, being in Chicago I'd probably just steal a sailboat in the harbor and make my way to rural north-western Michigan, where I have some family. And I'd fight pirates along the way.

As you can tell I've been giving this serious thought.

If our society utterly collapses, few will survive, and those that do will be the random beneficiaries of happenstance.


Oh I agree. But might as well try to have an adventure in your last few days.
 
2013-02-04 11:57:57 PM  

kmmontandon: jehovahs witness protection: How is a law abiding company that goes through the right channels a FAIL subby?

Probably because these very people apparently have no cognitive dissonance from a.) Building an refuge from evil gun-grabbing tyranny, and b. ) that so-called tyrannical government issuing them a permit to manufacture firearms.

If this was the kind of country they claim it was, they wouldn't have gotten that permit.


Logically, you present a black and white fallacy. It is not necessary for the government to be all encompassingly tyrannical for there to be dangerous tyrannical potential in the government.  Similarly, it is not necessary for the survivalist group to be completely off their nut for them to be mostly off their nut.
 
2013-02-04 11:59:27 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "There are several counties in Idaho that will work equally well for the Citadel Project if Benewah County fails to offer our Citadel Team suitable incentives."


Anti-government patriots are demanding government subsidies. Perfect.
 
2013-02-05 12:00:47 AM  

Bucky Katt: Bloody William: This isn't a big deal. People who can build weapons will build weapons, and it's clear these guys are either too chickenshiat to do so without permission to begin with or too nuts to not do so if the government confirms their fears. If they start bombmaking or creating artillery or anti-air emplacements, then we'll have a problem.

I'm still amused by a community resisting tyranny by centrally planning an entire city. That and the stupidity of building a walled city in Idaho. Because... that's a defensible concept against a modern military.

One UGM-133 Trident II could take out such an easy target.


Perhaps. I'm (ahem) fairly confident that it isn't going to come to that. The bunco squad may have to kick in the great leaders motel room door when they catch him, but that will be about the extent of it.
 
2013-02-05 12:01:05 AM  

Zeno-25: That has got to be the trashiest, ugliest 1911 I have ever seen.

/gun owner
//won't be buying any Citadel firearms anytime soon



i.imgur.com

/♫ Mary Kay got a gun.Whole world undone♫
 
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