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(Talking Points Memo)   Survivalists building a walled "Prepper" community get a gift from the ATF: They can now start legally manufacturing firearms. What's the worst that could happen?   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, ATF, destructive device, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives  
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16926 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2013 at 8:59 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-04 10:51:03 PM  

trappedspirit: [branchdavidian.jpg]


Someone loves child rape, apparently.
 
2013-02-04 10:51:14 PM  
Oh my god, I hope this commune, er, parrot community comes to fruition. I really do. For one thing, it'll be a contained social experiment which should be at the very least, interesting to observe.

But mainly, it's the sheer entertainment value of the idea of these people resisting tyranny by becoming the world's worst HOA.
 
2013-02-04 10:51:43 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: NewportBarGuy: globalwarmingpraiser: Was there any proof of that found? I know the Clinton administration said they did, but I have never saw any proof.

Ask the kids... Oh, wait. You can't. I'm sure it was just a horrific conspiracy. Here, have a towel to wipe up.

I am saying that if I wanted to justify something that horrific saying the guy was a kiddy diddler would work. And I am familiar with Janet Reno's witch hunts. Notice I am not blaming the rest of the administration.


Well, since Koresh decided that suicide by cop was his best option, we'll never know.
 
2013-02-04 10:52:25 PM  
he ATF license is an important step for The Citadel project. Organizers are hoping that proceeds from the gun business will underwrite the construction and development of the community, which is envisioned as a place for 3,500 to 7,000 "patriotic American families" who want to be ready for society's collapse, and who want to live around more guns and fewer liberals in the meantime.

Wait to get away from the liberals you build a commune with the cottage industry is gunsmithing?
 
2013-02-04 10:52:28 PM  

sethstorm: Stanton: Sounds like they're plagarizing the Mormon "White Horse Prophecy" almost word for word. Around 1840 Joseph Smith, feeling terribly persecuted, is reported to have said they should collect like-minded folks and scoot off to the Rocky Mountains to wait for the imminent collapse of society due to the gov'ts destruction of the Constitution. Then, with society in chaos, the Mormons ride in and save the day and impose an LDS government.

Sigh... "Those who don't know history..."

/and please, no nukes
//i live too close
///i don't wanna glow
////a boulder in front of their door would be nice tho

Would making the place resemble a large crater do?


ecx.images-amazon.com

"...uferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant."
 
2013-02-04 10:52:38 PM  

GUTSU: Flooding the compound with highly flammable tear gas then burning them alive wasn't the highlight of the administration.


So, we've established your idiocy. What next?
 
2013-02-04 10:54:32 PM  

hagoss01: and how does him being an extortionist have anything to do with their intentions? Unless their intentions are to rob people of their money for a stupid idea to build a walled city in idaho.  All I was saying is that they aren't attempting to defend themselves against a government attack. Lots of people are just assuming that was the point of their walled compound.


I don't think this guy intends to do anything but take a bunch of gullible redneck's money. The fact that he is a convicted crook makes it a little more obvious, but not much.
 
2013-02-04 10:54:51 PM  
Good for them. I don't understand why all the hate.
 
m00
2013-02-04 10:55:14 PM  

theknuckler_33: They aren't doing it to 'get back to nature' or just be survivalists or just be self-sufficient community. They are doing it because they think society is on the verge of collapse.


So you believe in global warming right?

Is your beef with them that they are planning for any possibly catastrophe and not just the one(s) you have been indoctrinated with?
 
2013-02-04 10:55:24 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: And I am familiar with Janet Reno's witch hunts. Notice I am not blaming the rest of the administration.


Fair enough. Janet was a tough woman with an agenda. She fought hard. Which is why I enjoyed SNL's send ups of hers.

globalwarmingpraiser: I am saying that if I wanted to justify something that horrific saying the guy was a kiddy diddler would work.


They refused entry to federal agents who had just cause for search. That justifies it for me.
 
2013-02-04 10:56:00 PM  

NewportBarGuy: GUTSU: Flooding the compound with highly flammable tear gas then burning them alive wasn't the highlight of the administration.

So, we've established your idiocy. What next?



So do you think Ruby Ridge was justified? I mean White Separatists and all who refused to infiltrate HAte Groups and all.
 
2013-02-04 10:56:34 PM  

sethstorm: Stanton: Sounds like they're plagarizing the Mormon "White Horse Prophecy" almost word for word. Around 1840 Joseph Smith, feeling terribly persecuted, is reported to have said they should collect like-minded folks and scoot off to the Rocky Mountains to wait for the imminent collapse of society due to the gov'ts destruction of the Constitution. Then, with society in chaos, the Mormons ride in and save the day and impose an LDS government.

Sigh... "Those who don't know history..."

/and please, no nukes
//i live too close
///i don't wanna glow
////a boulder in front of their door would be nice tho

Would making the place resemble a large crater do?


Just as long as the concussion doesn't knock over my beer.
 
2013-02-04 10:58:13 PM  

Flappyhead: cameroncrazy1984: Fubini: It's perfectly legal to build weapons for your own personal use (as long as you don't violate any other applicable regulations on type/size/capacity etc.) All this does is let them build guns that they can then legally sell to other people.

It's just funny that a group of people who think the government is out to get them...applied to the government for something.

You'd think they'd go ahead and do so without permission.  Oh wait that's right, they're actually pussies who just like to talk tough and carry a semi-auto.


And I'm pretty sure most of them could kick your ass.

Regardless, if they go through the proper channels--which they did--they get ridiculed and called "pussies" for going through the proper channels. Had they opted to manufacture guns without going through the right channels, Farkers would call them terrorists and ridicule them anyway. It's a no-win situation for them and makes people like you look like douche bags no matter what.
 
2013-02-04 10:58:19 PM  

NewportBarGuy: globalwarmingpraiser: And I am familiar with Janet Reno's witch hunts. Notice I am not blaming the rest of the administration.

Fair enough. Janet was a tough woman with an agenda. She fought hard. Which is why I enjoyed SNL's send ups of hers.

globalwarmingpraiser: I am saying that if I wanted to justify something that horrific saying the guy was a kiddy diddler would work.

They refused entry to federal agents who had just cause for search. That justifies it for me.


So shooting irritants into a compound with children in it was justified. Oh and did they find any illegal weapons, which I think the warrant was about?
 
2013-02-04 10:58:41 PM  

xen0blue: Good for them. I don't understand why all the hate.


Me neither.  Contempt for gullibility, amusement, and wonder that this clown is actually trying this scam - yes.
Hate? no. Why be upset that a con man is going to fleece a bunch of morans?
 
2013-02-04 10:59:11 PM  
Oh noes, people want to live in their own community.  Everybody panic, dig up any minutia of dirt on them and call them crazy, we can't let this happen!!!

Seriously farkers, is there anything you're not afraid of?
 
2013-02-04 10:59:11 PM  
It also amuses me that the planned location is in Benewah County.

/balls
 
2013-02-04 10:59:23 PM  

NewportBarGuy: GUTSU: Flooding the compound with highly flammable tear gas then burning them alive wasn't the highlight of the administration.

So, we've established your idiocy. What next?


Are you saying that the ATF didn't flood the compound with highly flammable tear gas?
 
2013-02-04 11:01:08 PM  
If you buy mil-spec surplus parts and don't care who made em it should only cost around 400$ in parts. Takes me an hour to assemble an AR so say 450 to build a rifle.

If you want a more quality firearm with a accurate barrel 400+ and a good fit and finish on a mated upper and lower 400+ thats where it will start costing real money, throw in a 2 stage quality trigger for another 200$  and you are soon in the 1000$ range


Now if these guys are milling them from bllet themselves instead of buying recievers from one of the 3 companies that make em for 90% of the manufacturers out there it will be even cheaper.
 
2013-02-04 11:03:23 PM  

TerminalEchoes: Flappyhead: cameroncrazy1984: Fubini: It's perfectly legal to build weapons for your own personal use (as long as you don't violate any other applicable regulations on type/size/capacity etc.) All this does is let them build guns that they can then legally sell to other people.

It's just funny that a group of people who think the government is out to get them...applied to the government for something.

You'd think they'd go ahead and do so without permission.  Oh wait that's right, they're actually pussies who just like to talk tough and carry a semi-auto.

And I'm pretty sure most of them could kick your ass.


a bunch of cowardly old white guys?

my grandma would lay them out
 
2013-02-04 11:04:12 PM  
theconsigliori.com
Good luck to you, especially since your interests don't conflict with mine
 
2013-02-04 11:04:35 PM  

m00: theknuckler_33: They aren't doing it to 'get back to nature' or just be survivalists or just be self-sufficient community. They are doing it because they think society is on the verge of collapse.

So you believe in global warming right?

Is your beef with them that they are planning for any possibly catastrophe and not just the one(s) you have been indoctrinated with?


So... agreeing that climate change is a real thing and society being on the brink of collapse are the same thing?
 
2013-02-04 11:04:52 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Seriously farkers, is there anything you're not afraid of?


We always show our fear by pointing and laughing at you people
 
2013-02-04 11:06:03 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Oh noes, people want to live in their own community.  Everybody panic, dig up any minutia of dirt on them and call them crazy, we can't let this happen!!!

Seriously farkers, is there anything you're not afraid of?


I can't speak for anybody else, but these clowns are one of many things I'm not afraid of. To me, and I suspect to many here, this crook's little ponzi scheme is light opera. Scarey? Not hardly.
 
2013-02-04 11:07:28 PM  
Perfectly situated for when the Yellowstone Supervolcano erupts.
 
2013-02-04 11:07:30 PM  
If they love their country so much, why are they separating themselves from it and excluding a certain type of social ideology?
That's not very American.
These guys seem like terrorists to me.
 
2013-02-04 11:08:30 PM  
I'm pretty sure the people moving to the middle of nowhere and making a farking castle are the ones with excess amounts of fear.
 
2013-02-04 11:09:21 PM  
Why even bother with static defenses in 2013?
 
2013-02-04 11:09:53 PM  
Well, if the property was cheap enough and i could find work id live there. Im sure the first thing theyll do is set up a nice shooting range. Would love to be able to go to a real range and nkt just drive into the mountains for a change.
 
2013-02-04 11:09:58 PM  

FreetardoRivera: TerminalEchoes: Flappyhead: cameroncrazy1984: Fubini: It's perfectly legal to build weapons for your own personal use (as long as you don't violate any other applicable regulations on type/size/capacity etc.) All this does is let them build guns that they can then legally sell to other people.

It's just funny that a group of people who think the government is out to get them...applied to the government for something.

You'd think they'd go ahead and do so without permission.  Oh wait that's right, they're actually pussies who just like to talk tough and carry a semi-auto.

And I'm pretty sure most of them could kick your ass.

a bunch of cowardly old white guys?

my grandma would lay them out


Hell, man, my grandmother's quicker and tougher than you pansies! Course she's 6-3, 250, runs a 4.5 40
 
2013-02-04 11:10:38 PM  

Giltric: If you buy mil-spec surplus parts and don't care who made em it should only cost around 400$ in parts. Takes me an hour to assemble an AR so say 450 to build a rifle.

If you want a more quality firearm with a accurate barrel 400+ and a good fit and finish on a mated upper and lower 400+ thats where it will start costing real money, throw in a 2 stage quality trigger for another 200$  and you are soon in the 1000$ range


Now if these guys are milling them from bllet themselves instead of buying recievers from one of the 3 companies that make em for 90% of the manufacturers out there it will be even cheaper.


What should I look for in the twist rate of an AR barrel?
 
2013-02-04 11:11:20 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: If they love their country so much, why are they separating themselves from it and excluding a certain type of social ideology?
That's not very American.
These guys seem like terrorists to me.


This is nothing new. Eccentric utopian "communes" are as old as America itself (and, indeed, far older).
90% of them are scams, and 99.999999% of them fail. "Terrorists"? Suckers is more like it.
 
2013-02-04 11:11:24 PM  
Great, got that old Rolling Stones' song on a loop...

/yeah, remember Hue
//actually did an excellent job of rebuilding that Citadel
 
2013-02-04 11:11:27 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: So do you think Ruby Ridge was justified? I mean White Separatists and all who refused to infiltrate HAte Groups and all.


Absolutely. If you are f*cking dumb enough to think you can hold court at your homestead? Wake up.

Allow yourself to be arrested and use the court system. Only a true asshole would put his wife and family at risk for his "values" or whatf*ckingever it was.
 
2013-02-04 11:12:10 PM  

Iczer: Ya know, I think a letter from the ATF would say something other than "Thanks for your interest, please start building firearms." This just really smells of troll for some reason...


I was about to say......
 
2013-02-04 11:12:29 PM  

GUTSU: Are you saying that the ATF didn't flood the compound with highly flammable tear gas?


I'm saying they should have respected the law of the land and surrendered to armed federal agents.
 
2013-02-04 11:12:40 PM  
Ok, I kind of get the idea of a separate, isolated community where you can surround yourself by like-minded people and never have to feel threatened or challenged by horrors such as opposing viewpoints. I mean, it's childish and stupid, but I get it. Why bother with the walls though? What problem does that solve? Walls have been obsolete since the invention of the cannon, and military hardware has advanced just a touch since then. When your defenses can be defeated by a cruise missile fired from a ship 1,000 miles away, or a small fleet of unmanned drones controlled by a guy with an Xbox controller in another state, not to mention tanks, artillery, missiles, grenades, and pretty much every aircraft ever designed, it seems like an unnecessary expense.I know that conservatives NEVER spend money unnecessarily, especially on feel-good, do-nothing measures that are designed purely to provide a false sense of security for the paranoid and perpetually terrified, so I don't get it. Maybe it's to stop sneaky liberals from slipping into town under the cover of darkness to soak up all of the glorious freedom and patriotism or, even worse, spread the ghey or something? I guess that kind of makes sense. You know, if you don't think about it.
 
2013-02-04 11:13:28 PM  
Can we get a "cognitive dissonance" tag? I don't think "Ironic" would be sufficient for this.
 
2013-02-04 11:13:28 PM  
I'm feeling too lazy to read this whole thread, but I hope at least one person before me has drawn the proper comparison to L. Bob Rife and his Raft in Snow Crash.  All these psychos need is a designer drug and pay-to-pray franchises.

10 Creepy Fictional Cults
 
2013-02-04 11:13:34 PM  

Frank N Stein: Giltric: If you buy mil-spec surplus parts and don't care who made em it should only cost around 400$ in parts. Takes me an hour to assemble an AR so say 450 to build a rifle.

If you want a more quality firearm with a accurate barrel 400+ and a good fit and finish on a mated upper and lower 400+ thats where it will start costing real money, throw in a 2 stage quality trigger for another 200$  and you are soon in the 1000$ range


Now if these guys are milling them from bllet themselves instead of buying recievers from one of the 3 companies that make em for 90% of the manufacturers out there it will be even cheaper.

What should I look for in the twist rate of an AR barrel?


It's a brand new twist, and it goes like this.
 
m00
2013-02-04 11:14:06 PM  

theknuckler_33: m00: theknuckler_33: They aren't doing it to 'get back to nature' or just be survivalists or just be self-sufficient community. They are doing it because they think society is on the verge of collapse.

So you believe in global warming right?

Is your beef with them that they are planning for any possibly catastrophe and not just the one(s) you have been indoctrinated with?

So... agreeing that climate change is a real thing and society being on the brink of collapse are the same thing?


If climate change is a real thing and projections are right, at some point all modern unsustainable societies will collapse.

See, this is why liberals aren't serious about their beliefs. If they were, the response would be:

"That's a great idea! We all should be prepared for society collapsing! See conservative gun nut preppers, this is why we need to invest in alternate energy. When the collapse comes 10-20 years from now and there's no more oil or coal or anything else, we want you to be able to plug in your electric Ford F150 into an outlet powered by the geothermal generator in the basement of your super energy-efficient house also covered in solar panels, which you were able to buy at Walmart because Obama invested in the technologies for this now."

Same logic argument for sustainable agriculture.
 
2013-02-04 11:14:09 PM  

sat1va: If the idea is to be entirely self-sufficient, what kind of trade off is there for any county that would provide incentives for them to build there? Property taxes? It's not like these people will be stimulating the local liberal economy.


You don't know how "closed" economies work, do you.

When you grow all your own food, the man who's got what you can't or don't grow is now a king. They make rye? Sell 'em gin. They make guns? Sell 'em computers. They have meat? Sell 'em sushi.

They're preparing to make a *gasp* gated community, not a biodome.
 
2013-02-04 11:14:28 PM  
talkingpointsmemo.com

That has got to be the trashiest, ugliest 1911 I have ever seen.

/gun owner
//won't be buying any Citadel firearms anytime soon
 
2013-02-04 11:14:39 PM  

mod3072: Ok, I kind of get the idea of a separate, isolated community where you can surround yourself by like-minded people and never have to feel threatened or challenged by horrors such as opposing viewpoints. I mean, it's childish and stupid, but I get it. Why bother with the walls though? What problem does that solve? Walls have been obsolete since the invention of the cannon, and military hardware has advanced just a touch since then. When your defenses can be defeated by a cruise missile fired from a ship 1,000 miles away, or a small fleet of unmanned drones controlled by a guy with an Xbox controller in another state, not to mention tanks, artillery, missiles, grenades, and pretty much every aircraft ever designed, it seems like an unnecessary expense.I know that conservatives NEVER spend money unnecessarily, especially on feel-good, do-nothing measures that are designed purely to provide a false sense of security for the paranoid and perpetually terrified, so I don't get it. Maybe it's to stop sneaky liberals from slipping into town under the cover of darkness to soak up all of the glorious freedom and patriotism or, even worse, spread the ghey or something? I guess that kind of makes sense. You know, if you don't think about it.


Exactly. As I said earlier, static defenses? Not only are they obsolete, it was outdated 70 years ago.
 
2013-02-04 11:15:59 PM  

Zeno-25: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 652x360]

That has got to be the trashiest, ugliest 1911 I have ever seen.

/gun owner
//won't be buying any Citadel firearms anytime soon


cdn.trendhunterstatic.com
 
2013-02-04 11:17:10 PM  

Frank N Stein: Zeno-25: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 652x360]

That has got to be the trashiest, ugliest 1911 I have ever seen.

/gun owner
//won't be buying any Citadel firearms anytime soon

[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 230x150]


That looks like it transforms into Megatron
 
2013-02-04 11:17:33 PM  

theknuckler_33: way south: theknuckler_33: Hmm, so you went through the hated bureaucracy to receive the proper, government approved, license to become an Obama administration-approved gun manufacturer?  Wow... you guys are real rebel-patriots.

What's the alternative?
Go it illegally and tempt the ATF to hold their next bonfire in this place?

See the third post in this thread.

/not for answers to your question, but for the point


Its an attempt at Fark-irony™?.

Technically they are preparing for "The downfall of society".
Since society hasn't downfallen we can assume they intend to keep playing by the rules.
I mean, even the founding fathers had to keep paying the kings tax till the revolution started.

/I'd have opted for a ship or one of those colossus like lilypad cities, personally.
/Better defense against Zombies, and ATF tanks cant cross open water.
/I guess they're starting small.
 
2013-02-04 11:18:31 PM  
If these last few months of Fark have taught me anything it's that this doomsday colony won't last more than 6 months. With all of those guns floating around, half will accidentally shoot themselves while lamenting their small penises. Half will still be pissed off about never getting a prom date and shoot up a school. While this is going on, the third half will mistakenly get shot by white knight wannabe Rambos who are trying to shoot the school shooters. Brazilians will die and everyone will have small penises.
 
2013-02-04 11:18:33 PM  

BSABSVR: Frank N Stein: Zeno-25: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 652x360]

That has got to be the trashiest, ugliest 1911 I have ever seen.

/gun owner
//won't be buying any Citadel firearms anytime soon

[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 230x150]

That looks like it transforms into Megatron


I googled "gaudy guns"

This poor, poor Thompson SMG
www.thegunzone.com
 
2013-02-04 11:20:25 PM  

NewportBarGuy: GUTSU: Are you saying that the ATF didn't flood the compound with highly flammable tear gas?

I'm saying they should have respected the law of the land and surrendered to armed federal agents.


Are you trying to justify the deaths of 21 children?
 
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