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(Talking Points Memo)   Survivalists building a walled "Prepper" community get a gift from the ATF: They can now start legally manufacturing firearms. What's the worst that could happen?   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, ATF, destructive device, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives  
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16921 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2013 at 8:59 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-04 09:59:28 PM  

arentol: A lot of uninformed people a/o trolls here.

Their stated goal is to build a small town for like-minded people to live in and be prepared in case the SHTF. They aren't hurting anyone else so WTF is your problem with this?

They claim to be patriots and nothing about their plan is inherently threatening. So I am a little confused how anyone can get from the information given that these folks are anti-USA, law breakers, rebels, or otherwise a threat or danger to the peace of the USA.

Also, if their goal is to set up this town and live there until the SHTF, then wouldn't it be in their best interest to never break any laws? If they start doing illegal things then the plan will be guaranteed to fall apart, especially if they sell guns.

Sorry, but like 90% of the comments so far are 100% fail.


They love USA so much, they want to build their own society? Word.
 
2013-02-04 10:00:05 PM  
You would think that one of the things that preppers would prep for would be mockery.  None of them seem to ever get to that part of preparation though.
 
2013-02-04 10:00:28 PM  

extroverted_suicide: I think Woodbury would be a good name for the place when it's finished.


I see you've been to Minnesota.
 
2013-02-04 10:02:00 PM  
Track the their contribution to the GDP for laughs.
 
2013-02-04 10:02:42 PM  

arentol: A lot of uninformed people a/o trolls here.

Their stated goal is to build a small town for like-minded people to live in and be prepared in case the SHTF. They aren't hurting anyone else so WTF is your problem with this?

They claim to be patriots and nothing about their plan is inherently threatening. So I am a little confused how anyone can get from the information given that these folks are anti-USA, law breakers, rebels, or otherwise a threat or danger to the peace of the USA.

Also, if their goal is to set up this town and live there until the SHTF, then wouldn't it be in their best interest to never break any laws? If they start doing illegal things then the plan will be guaranteed to fall apart, especially if they sell guns.

Sorry, but like 90% of the comments so far are 100% fail.


Wow, the context of these posts are going so far over your head they're dodging air traffice.
 
2013-02-04 10:03:05 PM  
Doesn't the fact that that they had to get written permission from Janet Reno's wet team in order to build some shiat in their garage, actually lend some credence to their belief that the country is in fail mode?
 
2013-02-04 10:03:41 PM  
 
2013-02-04 10:05:12 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Convicted extortionist a key player in Idaho citadel project


Hey look, Romney WAS a job creator!
 
2013-02-04 10:05:30 PM  

Flappyhead: arentol: A lot of uninformed people a/o trolls here.

Their stated goal is to build a small town for like-minded people to live in and be prepared in case the SHTF. They aren't hurting anyone else so WTF is your problem with this?

They claim to be patriots and nothing about their plan is inherently threatening. So I am a little confused how anyone can get from the information given that these folks are anti-USA, law breakers, rebels, or otherwise a threat or danger to the peace of the USA.

Also, if their goal is to set up this town and live there until the SHTF, then wouldn't it be in their best interest to never break any laws? If they start doing illegal things then the plan will be guaranteed to fall apart, especially if they sell guns.

Sorry, but like 90% of the comments so far are 100% fail.

Wow, the context of these posts are going so far over your head they're dodging air traffice.


There is no context to these posts... its a bunch of unemployed meth heads sitting around making fun of something they don't understand.
 
2013-02-04 10:06:34 PM  

Fista-Phobia: arentol: A lot of uninformed people a/o trolls here.

Their stated goal is to build a small town for like-minded people to live in and be prepared in case the SHTF. They aren't hurting anyone else so WTF is your problem with this?

They claim to be patriots and nothing about their plan is inherently threatening. So I am a little confused how anyone can get from the information given that these folks are anti-USA, law breakers, rebels, or otherwise a threat or danger to the peace of the USA.

Also, if their goal is to set up this town and live there until the SHTF, then wouldn't it be in their best interest to never break any laws? If they start doing illegal things then the plan will be guaranteed to fall apart, especially if they sell guns.

Sorry, but like 90% of the comments so far are 100% fail.

They love USA so much, they want to build their own society? Word.


With walls, turrets and a reflecting pool. It sounds like something I'd have drawn in my scribbler when I was 7. They think everyone is intimidated by it or something, whereas everyone just finds it hilarious and a little sad.
 
2013-02-04 10:07:44 PM  

coeyagi: Who run Derpertown?


Herper-Derper!
 
2013-02-04 10:08:16 PM  
I see this going either of two ways.

Either they're going to build this place and actually wall it up and a few months to a year later we'll all start hearing crazy stories from people cast out of the community for ideological impurity, someone's going to start a cult of personality, and that's when the shiat will really hit the fan.

Or more likely it's just going to be a semi gated community (they'll get bored with building the wall) where no one really has anything to talk about except how much they hate liberals and how much they wish they had trash pickup. Basically it'll be Kansas, but in Idaho. So really it'll just be like anywhere else in Idaho.

I can't wait, it's obvious what I'm pulling for.
 
2013-02-04 10:08:45 PM  

MagicMissile: Flappyhead: Wow, the context of these posts are going so far over your head they're dodging air traffice.

There is no context to these posts... its a bunch of unemployed meth heads sitting around making fun of something they don't understand.


Your selective responses say otherwise.

/successfultrollissuccessful.jpg
 
2013-02-04 10:09:50 PM  

jaytkay: Nice little screed from the guy:
"This is the last nail in the coffin for those who told us it couldn't be done...you cried to your masters, and you failed them...you all failed...you first got your panties wadded up. Instead you cried like a whiny little biatch..."

/ Is this the thread where gun enthusiasts tell us how they are unfairly seen as seething resentful paranoids?


Here I am and yes, this inbred f**ktard is going to look idiotic when the world doesn't end.
 
2013-02-04 10:10:11 PM  

thisisarepeat: Doesn't the fact that that they had to get written permission from Janet Reno's wet team in order to build some shiat in their garage, actually lend some credence to their belief that the country is in fail mode?


Only for a moron
 
2013-02-04 10:10:47 PM  
I also like how the III Citadel will be a HUGE strategic advatage for the 3%ers/patriot movement when the shiat hits the fan, yet simultaneously is such a low value target as to be ignored.

DICATOR-FOR-LIFE MALIA OBAMA:  The time has come to consolidate our power and to wipe out the last remnants of white male conservatism.  What are our targets, Captain-General?

CAPTAIN GENERAL CHELSEA CLINTON: Well, there's a gated community of 3%ers in idaho that represents one of the last bastions of open opposition, shall we ready the Reaper drones?

DFLMO:  Lame.  Cold and piney up there. Leave them be. Isn't there any place fun to blow up?
 
2013-02-04 10:10:50 PM  
What I find interesting is that these guys are all about following "constitutional laws" of the United States.  That seems to imply that they some laws may be "unconstitutional" and thus, don't need to be obeyed.  That's not how it works.  A law that is passed by congress and signed by the president is constitutional until the courts say otherwise and it is struck down.  Refusing to follow an "unconstitutional law" is a bit of an oxymoron.

Who in The Citadel is going to decide what is constitutional?
 
2013-02-04 10:11:42 PM  

mediablitz: "This is the last nail in the coffin for those who told us it couldn't be done," Miller wrote in the post. "You could have been a part of it, but no......you cried to your masters, and you failed them. You and your strap hangers sullied (at least attempted to) our names on blogs and sites around the world, and you all failed. You didn't even have to balls to publish how I was going to make it work when you first got your panties wadded up. Instead you cried like a whiny little biatch who didn't get their way..... and you failed yet again."

Anger, paranoia and narcissism. Yeah, these guys sound SO well adjusted...


Stage dressing. These guys sound SO ready to cash in on anger, paranoia, and narcissism, honestly. They're looking to fleece folks who think that a "fortified town" with a plan drawn by a 7-year-old gaming fan sounds like a good idea. Give it, oh, about three years.
 
2013-02-04 10:12:12 PM  

Tremolo: I see this going either of two ways.

Either they're going to build this place and actually wall it up and a few months to a year later we'll all start hearing crazy stories from people cast out of the community for ideological impurity, someone's going to start a cult of personality, and that's when the shiat will really hit the fan.

Or more likely it's just going to be a semi gated community (they'll get bored with building the wall) where no one really has anything to talk about except how much they hate liberals and how much they wish they had trash pickup. Basically it'll be Kansas, but in Idaho. So really it'll just be like anywhere else in Idaho.

I can't wait, it's obvious what I'm pulling for.


I take #2 for 1000, Alex.
 
2013-02-04 10:12:15 PM  
I hope the Benewah County, ID Fire Departments are ready because stuff like has historically not ended well.
s20.postimage.org

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com__|__media.spokesman.com__|__s20.postimage.org

(ok, chick-fil-a really has nothing to do with this, but I had some extra space and a pics of victoria jackson and chaz the intolerant chick-fil-a chicken handy, so why not?)

 
2013-02-04 10:12:44 PM  

Tremolo: I see this going either of two ways.

Either they're going to build this place and actually wall it up and a few months to a year later we'll all start hearing crazy stories from people cast out of the community for ideological impurity, someone's going to start a cult of personality, and that's when the shiat will really hit the fan.

Or more likely it's just going to be a semi gated community (they'll get bored with building the wall) where no one really has anything to talk about except how much they hate liberals and how much they wish they had trash pickup. Basically it'll be Kansas, but in Idaho. So really it'll just be like anywhere else in Idaho.

I can't wait, it's obvious what I'm pulling for.


I'm betting this place ends up as the "ultimate HOA poster child", personally.
 
2013-02-04 10:13:19 PM  

FooWho: What I find interesting is that these guys are all about following "constitutional laws" of the United States.  That seems to imply that they some laws may be "unconstitutional" and thus, don't need to be obeyed.  That's not how it works.  A law that is passed by congress and signed by the president is constitutional until the courts say otherwise and it is struck down.  Refusing to follow an "unconstitutional law" is a bit of an oxymoron.

Who in The Citadel is going to decide what is constitutional?


I think you have to go through assimilation first to find that out
 
2013-02-04 10:13:31 PM  

Tremolo: I see this going either of two ways.

Either they're going to build this place and actually wall it up and a few months to a year later we'll all start hearing crazy stories from people cast out of the community for ideological impurity, someone's going to start a cult of personality, and that's when the shiat will really hit the fan.

Or more likely it's just going to be a semi gated community (they'll get bored with building the wall) where no one really has anything to talk about except how much they hate liberals and how much they wish they had trash pickup. Basically it'll be Kansas, but in Idaho. So really it'll just be like anywhere else in Idaho.

I can't wait, it's obvious what I'm pulling for.


Option 3.  Total scam.  Ground will never get broken anywhere in Idaho due to unnamed issues with local officials.
 
2013-02-04 10:13:32 PM  
This group never stated that they were prepping for "tyrannical government" but more for a situation where the government isn't able to protect them, such as a nationwide blackout or other large scale natural disaster.  And also, because they wanted to get away from liberals, marxists, etc.

From their FAQ:
What Threats Do You Expect to Defend Against?
The Citadel is primarily designed to defend against a grid-down, economic collapse scenario. When most people ask this question they are thinking in terms of defending against violent action but there are other aspects to defending ourselves. Self-sufficiency in terms of food, water and energy are also a form of defense against a collapse scenario, so these are a major part of our plan.
The Citadel is not designed to withstand any direct .Mil or .Gov attack. Nor is the Citadel, in any manner, attempting to provoke any government entity.
 
2013-02-04 10:14:04 PM  

tallen702: GUTSU: CygnusDarius: The Chechen rebels have been doing it for quite some time , but I've always thought that gun-manufacturing has been the last bastion of American-made products. I could be wrong, though.

You'd be wrong, A lot of firearms companies have been moving production overseas. Even Remington is thinking about moving.

CygnusDarius: The Chechen rebels have been doing it for quite some time , but I've always thought that gun-manufacturing has been the last bastion of American-made products. I could be wrong, though.

Really? 80% lowers and AK blanks are your best friend when you're on a budget. Find someone with a mill and a set of micrometers, or in the case of the AK, a simple drill press and fine calipers, and you're in business for a fraction of the cost. Can't xfer as it's not serialized, but chances are, the guy who's milling 80% lowers or drilling AK blanks at $40 a pop isn't really looking to sell.

If MD takes any longer on my state BGC, I'll probably have been better off milling my own FAL upper. They're up to 4 weeks of backlog now on what is supposed to be a 3 day waiting period.


So, is there anything left that is made in America?.
 
2013-02-04 10:14:32 PM  

Tremolo: I see this going either of two ways.


You forgot

C) They are feckless losers without the wherewithal to even begin actual construction
 
2013-02-04 10:15:02 PM  

MagicMissile: Flappyhead: arentol: A lot of uninformed people a/o trolls here.

Their stated goal is to build a small town for like-minded people to live in and be prepared in case the SHTF. They aren't hurting anyone else so WTF is your problem with this?

They claim to be patriots and nothing about their plan is inherently threatening. So I am a little confused how anyone can get from the information given that these folks are anti-USA, law breakers, rebels, or otherwise a threat or danger to the peace of the USA.

Also, if their goal is to set up this town and live there until the SHTF, then wouldn't it be in their best interest to never break any laws? If they start doing illegal things then the plan will be guaranteed to fall apart, especially if they sell guns.

Sorry, but like 90% of the comments so far are 100% fail.

Wow, the context of these posts are going so far over your head they're dodging air traffice.

There is no context to these posts... its a bunch of unemployed meth heads sitting around making fun of something they don't understand.


Well, trek on over to the Free Republic, and hang around with unemployed meth  heads who are dead serious about things they don't understand.
 
2013-02-04 10:15:29 PM  

doglover: Bloody William: This isn't a big deal. People who can build weapons will build weapons, and it's clear these guys are either too chickenshiat to do so without permission to begin with or too nuts to not do so if the government confirms their fears. If they start bombmaking or creating artillery or anti-air emplacements, then we'll have a problem.

I'm still amused by a community resisting tyranny by centrally planning an entire city. That and the stupidity of building a walled city in Idaho. Because... that's a defensible concept against a modern military.

How long would the modern millitary last in a doomsday scenario?
Who in god's green earth would waste a nuke on idaho to off some whackjobs?

If the world does end, they're not only ready but ideally located. Making their plays legally now means they'll have experience for when they need it and funding for future improvements.

Plus it's a damn good idea to build an old fashioned walled city if society collapses because when push comes to shove missiles require massive infrastructure to utilize but rocks are timeless. We STILL use the great wall of China and a lot of pyramids and temples. A bunker buster might be able to knock it open, but who's dropping that on rednecks?


Now I got this mental image of Putin saying "fark it, lets nuke those shiats in Idaho too. It be epic LOL."
 
2013-02-04 10:15:54 PM  

FooWho: What I find interesting is that these guys are all about following "constitutional laws" of the United States.  That seems to imply that they some laws may be "unconstitutional" and thus, don't need to be obeyed.  That's not how it works.  A law that is passed by congress and signed by the president is constitutional until the courts say otherwise and it is struck down.  Refusing to follow an "unconstitutional law" is a bit of an oxymoron.

Who in The Citadel is going to decide what is constitutional?


Bill Frist and the corpse of Terri Schiavo?
 
2013-02-04 10:16:56 PM  
Old news.
There's already a Citadel in Los Angeles and it's prettier and way more American than the Idaho version:

i48.tinypic.com

i48.tinypic.com

i45.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-04 10:17:07 PM  

FormlessOne: I'm betting this place ends up as the "ultimate HOA poster child", personally.


I'm thinking armed standoffs with rooftop sniper pozzes over someone putting up a basketball hoop in the driveway or painting their mailbox fuchsia.
 
2013-02-04 10:17:31 PM  

hagoss01: This group never stated that they were prepping for "tyrannical government" but more for a situation where the government isn't able to protect them, such as a nationwide blackout or other large scale natural disaster.  And also, because they wanted to get away from liberals, marxists, etc.

From their FAQ:
What Threats Do You Expect to Defend Against?
The Citadel is primarily designed to defend against a grid-down, economic collapse scenario. When most people ask this question they are thinking in terms of defending against violent action but there are other aspects to defending ourselves. Self-sufficiency in terms of food, water and energy are also a form of defense against a collapse scenario, so these are a major part of our plan.
The Citadel is not designed to withstand any direct .Mil or .Gov attack. Nor is the Citadel, in any manner, attempting to provoke any government entity.


I'm pretty sure the "Citadel" ( gawd, what a hoot that name is) is pretty much designed to separate a bunch of gullible hillbillies from their money.
 
2013-02-04 10:17:53 PM  

Fubini: It's perfectly legal to build weapons for your own personal use (as long as you don't violate any other applicable regulations on type/size/capacity etc.) All this does is let them build guns that they can then legally sell to other people.

This is pretty much a win/win for everyone involved. The Citadel people get to finance their doomsday shelter, and the ATF gets carte blanche to stick a microscope up their pants if they so much as fart wrong. When you have an FFL you agree to let the ATF come and inspect your stock at any time for no reason at all during an annual "compliance inspection."

Also, if these people are otherwise law abiding there's no reason for the ATF to deny their request. To deny a request simply because their stated goal to build a wilderness fort is pretty obviously unconstitutional. It's tantamount to denying a request because someone said they're liberal or conservative.


Not "build" as in buying the parts from say, Brownell's and assembling them, but MANUFACTURING the frame which is the gun part that bears the serial number.

Considering that I can buy barrels for a 1911 all day long for $35, I'm really not sure where the profit will be in setting up $5-$10 Million in manufacturing equipment to do the same thing.

Ditto for AR-15 lower receivers which is the part ATF considers the "gun".  It's an alloy cast with a street price of $50-$60, 2-3X that from one of the well known brands, but still just a simple cast.  Worth it?  Maybe right now, but no way will demand continue like this to justify another manufacturer.
 
2013-02-04 10:17:55 PM  

sheep snorter: Good move ATF. Lets make it look like America committed self defense against the rats.

[i.imgur.com image 600x800]


I missed the spot where they put the the hospital, the palace of fun, the stone boat, the human chess board and the green dome.

/Is that obscure enough?
 
2013-02-04 10:18:23 PM  
I was just checking out the Citadel site and their "Patriot Agreement" which just about every item starts off with "Every able-bodied Patriot".  I wonder if Patriots with cerebral palsy or quadriplegia can apply. I wonder where they'll get the therapy/care they'll need?
 
2013-02-04 10:19:01 PM  
They will get as far as selling lots to suckers, then the developers will run off with the cash. Won't be the first time.
 
2013-02-04 10:19:11 PM  

jaytkay: Tremolo: I see this going either of two ways.

You forgot

C) They are feckless losers without the wherewithal to even begin actual construction


I guess I just have too much faith in the delusional, delusion can be quite the motivator. I do romanticize the idea that there are people this farking stupid and crazy enough to believe that this nonsense is their only protection from tyranny.
 
2013-02-04 10:20:21 PM  
 
2013-02-04 10:20:37 PM  

hagoss01: Self-sufficiency in terms of food, water and energy are also a form of defense against a collapse scenario, so these are a major part of our plan.


I keep going back to their little diagram and I'm not seeing anything there that would translate into food production, water retention or energy generation.
 
2013-02-04 10:20:41 PM  

davidphogan: The worst that could happen? Well, in the process of making the guns they could accidentally create a singularity that alerts an ancient race of aliens to our presence. They would then respond with their full military might, and proceed to kill millions of mammals while rapping those they spare with corkscrew shaped duck like penises, resulting in xenomorphs with acid for blood killing us all. But that's not too likely, just the worst that could happen.

That was a thing of beauty...
 
2013-02-04 10:21:33 PM  
no doubt in my mind that the permission from the ATF only comes with permission to the ATF to come by any time and check stuff out
 
2013-02-04 10:22:08 PM  

theorellior: FormlessOne: I'm betting this place ends up as the "ultimate HOA poster child", personally.

I'm thinking armed standoffs with rooftop sniper pozzes over someone putting up a basketball hoop in the driveway or painting their mailbox fuchsia.


So this:

www.teachingchildrenphilosophy.org

but ending in bloodshed.

/Kindergarten teacher game me this book, anyone else read it?
 
2013-02-04 10:22:10 PM  
arentol
A lot of uninformed people a/o trolls here.
Their stated goal is to build a small town for like-minded people to live in and be prepared in case the SHTF. They aren't hurting anyone else so WTF is your problem with this?
They claim to be patriots and nothing about their plan is inherently threatening. So I am a little confused how anyone can get from the information given that these folks are anti-USA, law breakers, rebels, or otherwise a threat or danger to the peace of the USA.

I confess to being uninformed having nrtfa but not a troll
They can do whatever they like given interest, ability and legality for sure
What confuses me are these thoughts -
1 - if you are a US patriot when the world ends, where does that leave you if that is your identity? or is this really patriotism at all?
 2- if you are surrounded by "like minded people" and the wait for the end of the world is long, how do you grow intellectually and not become, instead, incestuous in your views, living in a hall of mirrors?
 3 - If, in fact, the WORLD ends, how do you know that one particular patch of ground will be spared?

I am all for them doing what they like - but its confusing - if the world ends I (if not dead) will mourn all the places and strangers i've met - the only thing sadder than that loss would be to grow up in a walled compound in iowa........ waiting for the world to end.
 
2013-02-04 10:22:19 PM  

way south: theknuckler_33: Hmm, so you went through the hated bureaucracy to receive the proper, government approved, license to become an Obama administration-approved gun manufacturer?  Wow... you guys are real rebel-patriots.

What's the alternative?
Go it illegally and tempt the ATF to hold their next bonfire in this place?


See the third post in this thread.

/not for answers to your question, but for the point
 
2013-02-04 10:22:21 PM  
How could that possibly go wrong?
 
2013-02-04 10:22:45 PM  

I am totally preppers. Where do I apply?

 www.liketotally80s.com

 
2013-02-04 10:23:35 PM  

MagicMissile: sethstorm: Fine, let them make their lower-capacity guns.  Nothing says the government can't just take out the place from the air and mop up with better firearms on the ground.

If it can be done with Waco, I'm sure that there is no issue with neutralizing a similar community.

What do you mean "let them"  lol... you don't have any say in the matter you basement dwelling tard.

The government just gave them permission to manufacture their own firearms, the government supports their idea.

Go back to slurping Obamas cock buddy.


It's amazing how often conservatives have sucking dick come into their minds, especially when nothing even close to that was in the conversation.
 
2013-02-04 10:23:35 PM  
How nice that they are going to build a wall around their community.  It will help to contain the bomb blasts and ensure that they all die in the first round.
 
2013-02-04 10:24:07 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: People who want to join the Citadel - a walled, armed community being advertised online - must pay $208 to apply.


So, a community of 7,000, let's say an average of 4 per family, times $208, means $364,000 simoleans just for the "application" fee.

Nice work if you can get it and aren't hauled before a judge afterward.
 
2013-02-04 10:24:22 PM  

m.4tnz.com

^ This thread ^

 
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