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(Fox News)   Hey, you know now that Iraq's basically over, and Afghanistan has a hard date for winding down, it looks like after more than a decade at war, we might finally be able to relax and enjoy a "peace dividend" unless, oh son of a b--   (foxnews.com) divider line 65
    More: Sad, Afghanistan, Iraq, Latin American, United States, Gil Kerlikowske, border protection, Mexican Army, arms exports  
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34975 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2013 at 12:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-04 12:27:07 PM
12 votes:
I hated doing drug interdiction work personally while on active duty. The REAL problems stem from my fellow Americans excession consumption of illegal drugs.

/Legalizing pot would be a step in the right direction, IMHO
2013-02-04 12:56:08 PM
8 votes:
War is profitable for the one percent.

End of discussion.
2013-02-04 11:43:40 AM
8 votes:
You really thought the military industrial complex was going to sit on its hands, subby?
2013-02-04 01:41:35 PM
5 votes:
blog.hillbent.com
2013-02-04 01:11:06 PM
4 votes:

Cythraul: You really thought the military industrial complex was going to sit on its hands, subby?


www.sheppardsoftware.com

I warned you.
2013-02-04 12:56:40 PM
4 votes:

Pair-o-Dice: Yea, cause the war on drugs is going sooo well...


Since 2000 we've spent over $600 a second on the war on drugs for no appreciable positive outcome.

/true story
2013-02-04 12:56:37 PM
4 votes:
One thing should be clear with drugs: if you make them illegal, you are basically guaranteeing large and ongoing profits for organized crime, so that should always be taken into account when deciding which to ban, meaning that only things that are seriously dangerous should be banned, which things like alcohol, mj, cocaine and so on should be regulated, taxed, and public awareness campaigns to mitigate the harms, etc.
2013-02-04 01:18:15 PM
3 votes:
Fred Thompson, former senator and cast member of Law and Order:

"...with just a fraction of the money spent on the 'war on drugs', we could burn every poppy field on the planet.  But we won't, and you wanna know why?  Because there's got to be a 'war on something' for folks in Washington to get elected."
2013-02-04 01:16:24 PM
3 votes:

AirForceVet: I hated doing drug interdiction work personally while on active duty. The REAL problems stem from my fellow Americans excession consumption of illegal drugs.

/Legalizing pot would be a step in the right direction, IMHO



Oh, it would be more than a step in the right direction. It would pretty much be checkmate.

The vast, overwhelming majority of illicit drug us in America is marijuana. Other drug use doesn't come anywhere CLOSE to the percentage of drug use which pot makes up. Despite the lopsided attention the use of the hardest drugs gets, the hardest stuff (crack, coke, heroin) is almost a rounding error.

And the problems which the marijuana trade has would absolutely be allieviated by legalizing the pot trade. We could grow it right here on America's own soil, and the smuggling and crime associated would simply no longer be needed. Our prisons, which are just choked with marijuana "criminals" would suddenly have vacancy again, our prison overcrowding problems would be eliminated overnight.

And then maybe we wouldn't have to be embarrassed anymore about how lovely places like China and Iran arrest and incarcerate fewer of their own citizens then we do. China even has us beat not just per capita but in real numbers!!! It's disgusting.
2013-02-04 04:11:06 PM
2 votes:
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.

Substitute hunger for fear and eur/eastasia with the boogie man of the week.
2013-02-04 01:31:33 PM
2 votes:

MisterRonbo: I am not willing to lose a single American soldier or Marine's life just to stop people from getting high. You join the military to defend this country, not play Customs agent.


I like how you state "getting high", as if pot is the only product the cartels ever sell.  I'd say the Chinese experience with opium (when the Euros forced the import of it upon them) is a pretty good example of why a lot of drugs will never be legal.  America had its own issues with morphine abuse, which is just refined opium.  Heroin, of course a morphine replacement in the medical field, is also unlikely to ever be legalized for recreational use.  As such there are always going to be a certain level of drugs that remain controlled and people seek to obtain illegally.  So the cartels will always have a product to sell and they'll be down at the border shooting at US Customs Agents, pretending to be the Mexican military to move around in convoys, building submarines, and kinds of other violent and dumb shiat to move their product around.  As such dispatching elements of the US military to supplement the abilities of the Customs agents and secure our borders is a valid use of the military.

If the Zetas are shooting across the border, I'd rather have the military there to shoot back instead of sitting around in Fort Hood and going "Well we only signed up to fight enemies that have a flag...".

Treatment of the drug problem solely by domestic policy is not going to remove 100% of the product catalog of the cartels or their incentive to get goods into America.

/plus in the case of things like the nacro submarines it is stupid and redundant spending to buy the Customs Agents ASW assets when the Navy already has a whole bunch of P-3 Orions sitting around on the flight line
2013-02-04 01:28:38 PM
2 votes:
Meanwhile US forces guard poppy fields in the middle east, which fund CIA and military black projects.

The thing is, if you use tax dollars to fund things you can't really hide it as well from taxpayers and congress. But if you use drug funds you can do whatever the hell you want with it and no one asks where the money went.

What the 'war on drugs' has always been about, is eliminating the competition.
2013-02-04 01:18:05 PM
2 votes:

GORDON: Obama 2016.


Nah, if they don't change sockpuppets every 4 to 8 years the dumbasses might get a clue.
2013-02-04 01:16:07 PM
2 votes:

ha-ha-guy: While I'm all for legalization of some drugs, commitment of military assets to dealing with drugs isn't that bad.  Even with pot legal, we'll still have issues with things like heroin which I assume won't be legalized any time soon.


If we were sensible, we'd decriminalize it.

 In additional to that, some cartels present border security problems.

Create a rational guest worker program, and strictly enforce the laws against hiring illegals. Then you get rid of the two or three million people sneaking across the border to get a job, and the drug smugglers will stand out.

 Others have gotten in local politics and are destabilizing regimes in their home country (or started as a rebel movement that sells drugs to fund operations).



It is the interdiction and illegality that raises the price of drugs.  Legalize them, and the cartels would be fighting each other in an attempt to control the supply and thus the price.  Today, the cartels lose very little on interdictions (the production and transport cost is small and the profit margins high). Let them get through and the price will drop, and you cut the financing out from under them.

Just look at Mexico, where mayors who stand up to corruption and cartels die in a hail of gunfire.  I'm not exactly bothered by the thought of the Zetas coming into contact with a USMC platoon and finding out what it feels like to be at a firepower disadvantage.

I am not willing to lose a single American soldier or Marine's life just to stop people from getting high. You join the military to defend this country, not play Customs agent.

Honestly 20 billion or so does not seem that excessive.  If the cost balloons out of control, then we need to think about scaling back funding, but it doesn't seem to be at that point.  If anything I'd rather see more attempts to build up Latin American forces along the lines of how we helped train and build the Egyptian Army.  The end result in Egypt was a professional military that refused orders to crush the protests and now is helping to check their new President and his power grabs.  Spend the time and money to build various armies down there into something like that seems to have value.


Yeah, because strong militaries have been so good for Latin America in the past.
2013-02-04 01:07:25 PM
2 votes:
ALL the die-hard libs who blindly support Obama are just as foolish as all the die-hard conservatives who blindly supported GW Bush.
2013-02-04 01:06:44 PM
2 votes:
# of times word used at Hagel confirmation hearing

War: 160
Peace: 2
2013-02-04 12:54:18 PM
2 votes:
"
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence - economic, political, even spiritual - is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.

"
2013-02-04 12:49:45 PM
2 votes:
Oh yeah thanks America,your unrelenting focus on prohibition has made the world a better place. For heartless cops and the most ruthless inhuman gangsters.
2013-02-04 10:08:59 PM
1 votes:

Old_Chief_Scott: I find it interesting that the thread started about the "war on drugs" and how now, towards the end, I am wondering what drayno76 is smoking...


At the moment nothing untaxed. I appreciate high quality cannabis and high quality pipe tobacco when the mood calls for it.  I just come from a very independent, very stubborn cut of American culture.  Most of my ilk have been bred out by the corporate suburban life model that any part of middle America that the highways missed didn't get. Instead they withered and died as their land was bought out by corporate farms and the businesses closed because Wal-Mart opened up 20 miles down the road. I had enough experience in the classic 1940s - 1950's way of life living with my Grandparents while my dad was in the hospital for what would probably now be considered PTSD, but back then it had several different diagnoses.

I came here because I think cannabis should be legalized and the government should get the hell out of being an international police force.  I stayed because you and BigHeadFace fascinated me.  The other guy who derailed our conversation, well he so far left he's practically fallen right. I'll freely admit I'm an anarchist.  Yesterday when the cop aggressively ordered me to put my legally smoked cigarette out at the scene of an accident at a convenience store that injured my daughter, deserved to have her skull bashed in; any qualified emergency responder knows you do not aggressively approach a parent with an injured infant. I saw no reason for them to be there as there were no criminal charges being filed.  If the company wanted their insurance adjuster out there fine, but a cop is not an insurance agent nor legal defense agency for a corporation. In my opinion they got in the way of the delivery of medical attention to my baby. 

So what am I smoking. I'm smoking the dissatisfaction of being ordered by my 'free' country that the only intoxicant I'm allowed is a poison which deteriorates the liver. I'm smoking the dissatisfaction that I live in a country where law enforcement approach everyone as if they are looking for a crime to find. I'm dissatisfied with a former president who sent you and thousands of other Americans on a mission to obliterate a country based on a lie in order to improve his stock holdings. Any positive actions that came out of that war for the Iraqi people are irrelevant to the fact that the Americans were lied to and our forces were sent to dominate a country in order for select corporations to gain a foothold on economic opportunities that would not have been available had we not invaded.  The fact that more men went to Iraq than Afghanistan where our true attacker was is deplorable. 

The current and former treatment of military personnel who return to the country with psychological problems due to combat is sickening.  There are so many things wrong with this nation that I don't see any one political party, any one president, or anything other than total reconstruction solving the problems.  More education money is spent on upper administration than students and our international educational status is a testament to that. There are more things that I can list that are massive failings of the government.  The solution every election is 'we'll cut this and spend more on this' and the end result is more money spent at the top and nothing changes at the service level. 

Republicans should LOVE me, I'm anti-big government, anti-government control, anti-taxation and pro-2a.
Democrats should LOVE me, I'm pro choice, anti-prohibition, anti-prayer in public schools, and anti-big-corp.

The sad truth is that the above issues are all minor in comparison to the massive failing has done the American people. 
We imprison instead of educate, we establish ever expanding laws to curb effects of previous laws. We fail on so many levels
that we desperately need an infrastructure overhaul.  If it causes Anarchy, I grew up prepared for that one day due to my Grandfathers
experiences during the Great Depression, he taught me to expect it. However, more laws covering up old broken laws is simply putting
a band-aid on a broken arm, it's not going to do anything.
2013-02-04 08:47:10 PM
1 votes:
I find it interesting that the thread started about the "war on drugs" and how now, towards the end, I am wondering what drayno76 is smoking...
2013-02-04 07:55:53 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: I hated doing drug interdiction work personally while on active duty. The REAL problems stem from my fellow Americans excession consumption of illegal drugs.

/Legalizing pot would be a step in the right direction, IMHO


Repeal all drug laws. Then the "problem" of illegal drugs will go away.
2013-02-04 07:38:47 PM
1 votes:

orbister: There's a weary predictability about it.

Arm the Mujahideen -> create Al Qaeda.
Support Hussein -> create, well, Hussein.
Import cocaine to fund Oliver North's project -> strengthen FARC.

Are you guys fighting any enemies you didn't create yourselves?


Probably not.
2013-02-04 06:45:55 PM
1 votes:

the money is in the banana stand: What do you think about Heroin, Cocaine, Meth, Bath Salts, Acid, and substances that unlike Marijuana are highly addictive and are detrimental to society as a whole? While I agree with the assessment of prohibition, what happens when these substances are now legal? Legal to use, and legal to buy/sell? What happens when you take an industry like that and legitimatize it? How would violence cease to exist?


First off, meth and bath salts would largely disappear. When people can get their hands on cheap, clean coke and amphetamines, there is no reason to settle for garbage. Notice how we don't blind ourselves with bathtub gin anymore. In fact, you can point to meth, bath salts, and krokodil as direct evidence of the failure of drug policy. High school kids occasionally got high on trucker speed when I was young, but now that it's gone, they're using meth.

As far as the other things go? Coke isn't that big of a deal for most people. Neither is acid. Heroin is pretty addictive, but the only reason addiction ruins most peoples' lives is the crap they have to go through to get their drug. A tiny fraction of DEA money could go to addiction treatment, and anyone who wants it could get it.

All the violence is due to prohibition. People make fortunes running distribution ops, and they kill to stay on top. People kill to get money for their artificially expensive drugs. People kill snitches and thieves, because it's lawless in the drug world. How much senseless violence can you attribute to alcohol? Caffeine? Tobacco? Prozac?
2013-02-04 06:37:11 PM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: MisterRonbo: I am not willing to lose a single American soldier or Marine's life just to stop people from getting high. You join the military to defend this country, not play Customs agent.

I like how you state "getting high", as if pot is the only product the cartels ever sell.  I'd say the Chinese experience with opium (when the Euros forced the import of it upon them) is a pretty good example of why a lot of drugs will never be legal.  America had its own issues with morphine abuse, which is just refined opium.  Heroin, of course a morphine replacement in the medical field, is also unlikely to ever be legalized for recreational use.  As such there are always going to be a certain level of drugs that remain controlled and people seek to obtain illegally.  So the cartels will always have a product to sell and they'll be down at the border shooting at US Customs Agents, pretending to be the Mexican military to move around in convoys, building submarines, and kinds of other violent and dumb shiat to move their product around.  As such dispatching elements of the US military to supplement the abilities of the Customs agents and secure our borders is a valid use of the military.

If the Zetas are shooting across the border, I'd rather have the military there to shoot back instead of sitting around in Fort Hood and going "Well we only signed up to fight enemies that have a flag...".

Treatment of the drug problem solely by domestic policy is not going to remove 100% of the product catalog of the cartels or their incentive to get goods into America.

/plus in the case of things like the nacro submarines it is stupid and redundant spending to buy the Customs Agents ASW assets when the Navy already has a whole bunch of P-3 Orions sitting around on the flight line


So here is a question:  How will these cartels replace the massive amount of money they make off what you consider the lesser drugs if they were legalized?

You suggest that they would make their money off heroin, yet that is not possible.  The market potential for heroin is tapped out.  People don't just seek out drugs because they are illegal, they seek out drugs to get high, and we have pretty much reached an equilibrium with respect to heroin use.

"They will charge more for Heroin to make up the difference, and the addicts will pay it because they are addicted."

No, they ALREADY charge as much as they can for Heroin because the addicts will pay because they are addicted.  Do you think they might be charging less than the market will bear now?  Nope.  Those markets are tapped out.  You can't go to a heroin addict, people who will go without food to afford the drug, and say "Gee, we know you are already paying every single cent you take in to us, but we need you to pay us 1000% more because we need to offset our loss of the weed market."

Basically what I'm saying, is that your entire premise that the cartels will makeup the huge loss by shifting to another illicit product is false because the other product is already illicit and the market is already saturated.  Ironically, given the basis of your post, they only way you could see a real uptick in 'hard' drugs would be to cut back on the domestic policy you seem to think won't work.
2013-02-04 05:42:59 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: I hated doing drug interdiction work personally while on active duty. The REAL problems stem from my fellow Americans excession consumption of illegal drugs.

/Legalizing pot would be a step in the right direction, IMHO


Actually, the REAL farking problem is believing criminalization HAS "worked", and will CONTINUE to "work".

Dependency is a MEDICAL issue, not a criminal issue.

I don't give a fark WHAT "drugs" somebody uses in the privacy of their own home, because as long as they aren't posing a threat to anybody else, it's none of my g'damn business.

The drug war has FAILED to do anything but criminalize non-violent citizens who may, or may not, need MEDICAL assistance to kick a dependency problem.

Funding the "drug war" needs to farking stop, NOW.
2013-02-04 05:39:37 PM
1 votes:
The Best Way to End Gun Violence? End the War On Drugs

But we don't really want to reduce gun violence, do we?
2013-02-04 05:19:00 PM
1 votes:
There's a weary predictability about it.

Arm the Mujahideen -> create Al Qaeda.
Support Hussein -> create, well, Hussein.
Import cocaine to fund Oliver North's project -> strengthen FARC.

Are you guys fighting any enemies you didn't create yourselves?
2013-02-04 05:17:03 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: TopoGigo: whidbey: Pretty sure that electing people to office who pledge to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporate power constitutes an illusion measure of "control."

FTFY

So making the rich and corporations pay their fair share for what they glean constitutes a folly in your worldview.

Of course, you're going to back this up with actual evidence so I don't just dismiss your opinion as unfounded cynicism.


No, believing that they actually would make the rich and the corporations pay their fair share is the folly here.

Of course, anyone who uses the words "unfounded" and "cynicism" in the same sentence when talking about politicians has not been paying attention.
2013-02-04 04:19:49 PM
1 votes:

FLMountainMan: Keizer_Ghidorah: david_gaithersburg: Just what the fark did you libs think the government was going to do with all of the extra tax money you've been chomping at the bit to give them.  You voted for this shiat, own it, or wake up and join your local Tea Party.

Weren't the Republicans chomping at the bit to start a war with Iran while abolishing taxes for rich people and jacking taxes up for the middle-class, lower-class, and poor? Aren't the Republicans the party that goes insane whenever someone suggests cutting the defense budget? Why are you telling us to quit supporting "warmongers" and come support warmongers?

I'm a Republican who thinks the rich should pay more (but yeah, I do the poor and lower-class should pay a little more - half the households not paying any federal income taxes is stupid both financially and philosophically).  I also think the defense budget is just ridiculous.  I realize that defense is one of the few American trade surplus industries, but Holy Shiat, we're Number One in the world and spend more than 2-18 combined.


Half of them? Citation? That sounds a bit twee to me. Actually it's twice as much as the next 5 countries combined, and it is absolutely ridiculous. The biggest problem is that America thinks it needs to be the policeman of the world and turn every country into America Jr. It started with the Cold War and our obsessive panic of communism, and man did it fark us over with the things we did during those decades. Sadly I don't see it ending anytime soon. Yes, I think we should help out wherever and whenever we can, but we need to focus on ourselves first, especially when we're still suffering from the effects of the second-worst recession in American history and there's so many homeless and poor and hungry in our own borders, along with the continuing fights for equality in this so-called land where everyone is created equal.
2013-02-04 04:16:05 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: passing regulation to make business play fair


Just a few more, then everything will be great!

whidbey: reducing the kind of military aggressiveness seen in the Bush years


This part's just a lie.

Tiber727: Legalize it, but also ban its import from other countries


The current ban on that is working so well.
2013-02-04 04:15:06 PM
1 votes:
ethics-gradient: Oh yeah thanks America,your unrelenting focus on prohibition has made the world a better place. For heartless cops and the most ruthless inhuman gangsters.

Iaazathot: Don't forget the owners of private prisons!  They're spiffy.

Oh that's true, I shall remember them in my prayers tonight. *Rot in hell, rot in hell.*

FTDA:Your welcome.  Thanks for getting your asses kicked out of every country you attempted to colonize across the globe.  AND thanks for jumping on the slave trade bandwagon after the Dutch kicked it off; which put a nasty smear on our countries history and ultimately lead to the Civil War.  But please continue talking shiat about us while ignoring all the things y'all farked up in the name of King/Queen and country.  Yeah yeah, there were American slave traders too, but we didn't start trading them before y'all started selling them.

I'm not denying the great things that the USA has contributeed to the world just saying that the American legacy of prohibition has been shiate, especially as you guys should have learnt from the alcohol one of the early 20thC.
Yeah the British Empire made many truly shiate decisions but a lot of the colonies were withdrawn from (prematurely often I'd argue) because UK had shifted more towards socialism. As well as that Britain couldn't afford to run an empire after being bankrupted by getting into two enormous wars with Germany one century.
Slavery was abolished in the British Empire well before the American Civil War and was scarcely a British invention, it was the norm all through history up until abolition. (I think only Denmark abolished it before the UK though, fair play to the Danes.)
2013-02-04 04:11:36 PM
1 votes:

hdhale: How about instead this administration do something about demand in this country first? Or is that too big a project for you, Barry? Hmm? Oh right, you're too busy out making speeches about bullshiat, because clearly the images of you firing your $3,500 shotgun weren't enough to convince people that the 2nd amendment protects skeet and duck shooting. Never mind.


Perhaps you can point out when and where Obama said that hes coming for all the guns all the where. This is something that people keep screaming about constantly and yet I've seen not a lick of proof. I'm also confused as to the obsession people have with equating the picture to "protecting skeet shooting". Sounds like random gibbering in lieu of any intelligent conversation.
2013-02-04 03:58:45 PM
1 votes:

FLMountainMan: Whidbey - you really believe the Stimulus worked?


Of course the stimulus "worked" Putting money into the economy is always going to have a positive short term effect.

Government stimulus is sort of like having your nuts removed because they're cancerous. It's not exactly an ideal situation, but it's better than the alternative of farkin dying.
2013-02-04 03:14:15 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: We didn't have a choice.  Bush ran this country into the ground and allowed Wall Street to go apeshiat.


And the Democrats' brilliant solution is to bail them out?

whidbey: YixilTesiphon: whidbey: The linked article is still good news.

Not unless you're an ignoramus.

Personal attacks forfeit whatever argument you're making.


It's not really a personal attack. You have to be truly ignorant to believe that jobs increasing at a slower rate than population is "good news". It's part of the parties' glib dishonesty with the American public that annoys me so much.
2013-02-04 03:05:26 PM
1 votes:

relcec: the war on druggies developed independently of choices made by Boeing, EADS, etc.
the whole military industrial fallacy is a nice way for people to avoid taking responsibility for their actions and omissions and the actions and omissions of their elected leaders. the pull of money and jobs may result in even extreme waste in the procurement process at times, but it sure as f*ck doesn't create the idiots that populate this thread and cheer on the drug war, assassinate jfk, or dictate our posture as a hyper aggressive predator nation.


Way to demonstrate a tenuous grasp of the situation.
2013-02-04 02:58:51 PM
1 votes:

manimal2878: drayno76: TwowheelinTim: AirForceVet: I hated doing drug interdiction work personally while on active duty.

I'll second that.

/retired uscg.

Two in one day, I'm going to farking die!

  You must not have been around many actual military members in your life.  They do not have a single monolithic worldview regarding drug policy or any other topic, pretty much like every other group.  I knew lots of cool, laid back, navy guys when I lived in Jacksonville.  I would guess a majority probably lean republican, but not all by any means.


Actually, I'm the son of Vietnam Vet and spent a major portion of my childhood on military bases.  In the battle of the parentage my former flower child Professor Mother won over my psychotically unbalanced abusive father. It's worth saying both my grandfather and my father were hardline 'War on drugs' during the Ray-gun error.  Both dead now, thankfully. My college fraternity also consisted of about 20 service members, all hardline pro war on drugs.

What I've seen on Fark from Military personnel concerning most issues is...

"We take order, no think for ourselves, no comprehend consequences of actions or morality, because we're loyal and our colors are flawless."

Seeing military personnel openly disagreeing with the War on drugs is absolutely amazing!
Now if we can also convince those who are still in service and not just the 15 retired ones on fark, then maybe they'll tell their bosses to take a flying Fark. They should be allowed to acknowledge that they signed up to defend the country not attack anyone the corporate lobbyists can make money off of.

I know for a fact my father assisted in the export of opium out of both Vietnam and Cambodia while gathering intel against the Viet Cong and I also know he admits he has no concerns about the fact that much of it ultimately landed in the streets of the us because he was 'under orders.'  I've read rumors and blogs that the same happened in Afganistan, the 'Obama's War' documentary had footage showing US Military 'turning a blind eye' to drug smugglers.

It frighteningly apparent that we actually have no direct moral compass and we are willing to do whatever is necessary as a nation to make a lot of money for very few people.  I don't know if this is the governmental version of 'We're sorry' for Fast and Furious, or if they just really want to piss off central America but that will be the end result.

The international war on drugs needs to end, the national war on drugs needs to come to a grinding halt.  Legalize cannabis, psilocybin, LSD, MDMA and hell even coke, properly regulate them and make the public aware on how NOT to OD.  They're trying to do that right now with farking acetaminophen because people are ODing on it.  When the military stands up against the every growing tyranny that is our government I'll be really glad to watch political lines dissolve in favor of a common enemy.  Our farked up government and the corporations who pull it's strings.
2013-02-04 02:42:51 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: WeenerGord: whidbey: WeenerGord: whidbey: WeenerGord: whidbey: Maybe you should Google the accomplishments the Obama administration has produced in the past 4 years and compare it to the utter failure of the past 8 years before that.

So many that you couldn't even name one of them

Living under a rock the past few years, or just really that stubborn?

Still cant even name one of them, resorts to strawman attacks instead.

You really can't be that dense.  It's like someone asking to prove that water exists.


3 chances, still cant name even one, another strawman. Yup, looks like the one thats full of shiat is YOU

It's really an easy Google,  WeenerGord.And these are only 21 of the top 50.


1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America's long-term fiscal problems.
2. Passed the Stimulus: Signed $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009 to spur economic growth amid greatest recession since the Great Depression. Weeks after stimulus went into effect, unemployment claims began to subside. Twelve months later, the private sector began producing more jobs than it was losing, and it has continued to do so for twenty-three straight months, creating a total of nearly 3.7 million new private-sector jobs.
3. Passed Wall Street Reform: Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) to re-regulate the financial sector after its practices caused the Great Recession. The new law tightens capital requirements on large banks and other financial institutions, requires derivatives to be sold on clearinghouses and exchanges, mandates that large banks provide "living wills" to avoid chaotic bankruptcies, limits their ability to trade with customers' money for their ...


Nice cut and paste but
Wait.
Off the top of my head, I would say they all look like bullshiat. I'm against the Republicans too. We have to expect more from government. Until we get more we have to be adversaries of them, not make excuses for them.
2013-02-04 02:38:48 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: 10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi


I'm disappointed to see you celebrating our hyper aggressive foreign policy and waging of wars of choice on countries that have nothing to do with us.
2013-02-04 02:34:22 PM
1 votes:
Stupid warmongering BUsh... er.. Obama? Ok then, its all for world peace.
2013-02-04 02:30:00 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: WeenerGord: whidbey: WeenerGord: whidbey: Maybe you should Google the accomplishments the Obama administration has produced in the past 4 years and compare it to the utter failure of the past 8 years before that.

So many that you couldn't even name one of them

Living under a rock the past few years, or just really that stubborn?

Still cant even name one of them, resorts to strawman attacks instead.

You really can't be that dense.  It's like someone asking to prove that water exists.



3 chances, still cant name even one, another strawman. Yup, looks like the one thats full of shiat is YOU
2013-02-04 02:26:45 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: WeenerGord: whidbey: Maybe you should Google the accomplishments the Obama administration has produced in the past 4 years and compare it to the utter failure of the past 8 years before that.

So many that you couldn't even name one of them

Living under a rock the past few years, or just really that stubborn?



Still cant even name one of them, resorts to strawman attacks instead.
2013-02-04 02:18:32 PM
1 votes:

FTDA: Maybe you should Google the accomplishments the Obama administration has produced in the past 4 years and compare it to the utter failure of the past 8 years before that.

What gives you the impression that only Democrats can be identified with the left and only Republicans can be identified with the right? I didn't mention either party until now. Perhaps you should pull that stick out of your ass, go get laid and relax a little. Then again, being vitriolic is probably your thing so keep it up if it makes you happy.


The Dems are about as left as we're going to get for the time being, until people step up and create a political party that is politically left of where they are. We should be throwing all of our support to them now, at least until another party gets created.

However, if you are entertaining the notion that the Republican Party isn't anything other than a far-right threat to our society, then you're really looking at the situation with an unfairly centrist perspective.
2013-02-04 02:06:01 PM
1 votes:
No offense brown people but this bus needs to keep rollin'.

sincerely,
The Military Industrial Complex
2013-02-04 02:04:09 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: FTDA: mwfark: ALL the die-hard libs who blindly support Obama are just as foolish as all the die-hard conservatives who blindly supported GW Bush.

Thank God I'm a moderate.  I support reason and sanity.  Too bad neither of those ideals are represented in politics.

Because Obama and Bush's policies are/were exactly the same.

Maybe you should stay home next election.


Really?  I state that I'm neither left or right wing and would like to see people with some integrity and sense be elected to political office and your answer is that I shouldn't vote or have an opinion about our country?  Who pissed in your cornflakes today?
2013-02-04 01:52:23 PM
1 votes:

mwfark: ALL the die-hard libs who blindly support Obama are just as foolish as all the die-hard conservatives who blindly supported GW Bush.


Thank God I'm a moderate.  I support reason and sanity.  Too bad neither of those ideals are represented in politics.
2013-02-04 01:48:34 PM
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: Let's allow drug money a path into the US military.  What could possibly go wrong?


www.examiner.com
2013-02-04 01:39:09 PM
1 votes:

zarberg: Pair-o-Dice: Yea, cause the war on drugs is going sooo well...

Since 2000 we've spent over $600 a second on the war on drugs for no appreciable positive outcome.

/true story


"No appreciable positive outcome" to you, but to the Congress members who keep the pork rolling back to their districts for DoD/DEA/DoJ contracts see a huge positive outcome for them.
2013-02-04 01:34:08 PM
1 votes:
I'm not joking here, I've written this prior to now - the only solution is for these corrupt governments to hire an outfit like Executive Outcomes.  Ask the fine folks in Sierra Leone about their work there.  Solid numbers escape me now but it took about six weeks to end a civil conflict that had gone on for at least a year if not longer. Never mind what happened when they with drew (think "Saigon").
E/O is gone but parts live on in other groups

Unless of course the CIA needs the drug money to fund some other issue.
OR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-jvHynP9Y    go hang with Ike.
2013-02-04 01:25:18 PM
1 votes:
Great, more tax money going out of our pockets to increase the profit margins for clowns who pay no taxes on those profits.  Price Support Subsidy agents (all that law enforcement/military represent).

I'd like to know just how many Americans have been saved from themselves, over the past 40yrs, by such futzing around with the `free market'?  How much did it cost to `save' each of those individuals?  Could have given them all the drugs they wanted AND paid for their health insurance and, I'm betting, still came out ahead (without the corruption or the death of innocents).
2013-02-04 01:19:11 PM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: While I'm all for legalization of some drugs, commitment of military assets to dealing with drugs isn't that bad.  Even with pot legal, we'll still have issues with things like heroin which I assume won't be legalized any time soon.  In additional to that, some cartels present border security problems.  Others have gotten in local politics and are destabilizing regimes in their home country (or started as a rebel movement that sells drugs to fund operations).

Just look at Mexico, where mayors who stand up to corruption and cartels die in a hail of gunfire.  I'm not exactly bothered by the thought of the Zetas coming into contact with a USMC platoon and finding out what it feels like to be at a firepower disadvantage.

Honestly 20 billion or so does not seem that excessive.  If the cost balloons out of control, then we need to think about scaling back funding, but it doesn't seem to be at that point.  If anything I'd rather see more attempts to build up Latin American forces along the lines of how we helped train and build the Egyptian Army.  The end result in Egypt was a professional military that refused orders to crush the protests and now is helping to check their new President and his power grabs.  Spend the time and money to build various armies down there into something like that seems to have value.


ha-ha-guy: While I'm all for legalization of some drugs, commitment of military assets to dealing with drugs isn't that bad.  Even with pot legal, we'll still have issues with things like heroin which I assume won't be legalized any time soon.  In additional to that, some cartels present border security problems.  Others have gotten in local politics and are destabilizing regimes in their home country (or started as a rebel movement that sells drugs to fund operations).

Just look at Mexico, where mayors who stand up to corruption and cartels die in a hail of gunfire.  I'm not exactly bothered by the thought of the Zetas coming into contact with a USMC platoon and finding out what it feels like to be at a firepower disadvantage.

Honestly 20 billion or so does not seem that excessive.  If the cost balloons out of control, then we need to think about scaling back funding, but it doesn't seem to be at that point.  If anything I'd rather see more attempts to build up Latin American forces along the lines of how we helped train and build the Egyptian Army.  The end result in Egypt was a professional military that refused orders to crush the protests and now is helping to check their new President and his power grabs.  Spend the time and money to build various armies down there into something like that seems to have value.


it's about 60% more expensive than the federal school lunch program, that feeds 30 million kids everyday.
it's double what exxon booked as profit last quarter.
it's more than 1% of total federal income tax receipts for last year.
it's a massive, massive amount of money for a program that causes more problems than it solves.
and why do you feel you are particularly well placed to decide what consenting adults can and can't do with their bodies in the privacy of their homes?
authoritarians, everywhere....
2013-02-04 01:07:21 PM
1 votes:
These idiots should all be forced to read Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad.

lugubrious drollery
2013-02-04 01:04:32 PM
1 votes:

Old_Chief_Scott: My last cruise on active duty was patrolling the Mexican west coast. What a joke. We tracked a  "mother ship" for days yet when we messaged for permission to board them, in the time it took to get a response the "mother ship" suddenly decided to move in to Mexican territorial waters where we could not now board them without the consent of the Mexican government. So sure enough, we hang around (finally showing ourselves since it was obvious that they now knew we were there) and watch the Mexican Navy gunboat conduct a search and report finding nothing.

Well, maybe a stray wad of cash, right?


Sounds like we need to start importing Somali pirates to the Mexican Coast.
2013-02-04 01:03:20 PM
1 votes:
100+ years ago Alcohol, cocaine and Pot were legal and everyone was doing ok. We stomped on it becasue of a few idiots and here we are today. You take something away and it makes it special and a have to have item. Enough people see its not a good idea to over do and you will not have the problem. those that have the problem need to be taken care of medically not with the courts.

Im a Conservative and I can see all this fighting  is BS. Grandstanding on an issue that has no freaking end .There is always someone willing to take the place of the last guy that fell. There is and always will be a market for this stuff.
2013-02-04 01:00:48 PM
1 votes:
Obama 2016.
2013-02-04 12:57:29 PM
1 votes:
While I'm all for legalization of some drugs, commitment of military assets to dealing with drugs isn't that bad.  Even with pot legal, we'll still have issues with things like heroin which I assume won't be legalized any time soon.  In additional to that, some cartels present border security problems.  Others have gotten in local politics and are destabilizing regimes in their home country (or started as a rebel movement that sells drugs to fund operations).

Just look at Mexico, where mayors who stand up to corruption and cartels die in a hail of gunfire.  I'm not exactly bothered by the thought of the Zetas coming into contact with a USMC platoon and finding out what it feels like to be at a firepower disadvantage.

Honestly 20 billion or so does not seem that excessive.  If the cost balloons out of control, then we need to think about scaling back funding, but it doesn't seem to be at that point.  If anything I'd rather see more attempts to build up Latin American forces along the lines of how we helped train and build the Egyptian Army.  The end result in Egypt was a professional military that refused orders to crush the protests and now is helping to check their new President and his power grabs.  Spend the time and money to build various armies down there into something like that seems to have value.
2013-02-04 12:56:17 PM
1 votes:
My last cruise on active duty was patrolling the Mexican west coast. What a joke. We tracked a  "mother ship" for days yet when we messaged for permission to board them, in the time it took to get a response the "mother ship" suddenly decided to move in to Mexican territorial waters where we could not now board them without the consent of the Mexican government. So sure enough, we hang around (finally showing ourselves since it was obvious that they now knew we were there) and watch the Mexican Navy gunboat conduct a search and report finding nothing.

Well, maybe a stray wad of cash, right?
2013-02-04 12:54:40 PM
1 votes:

Torqueknot: The Glorified Jailer: Why is Obama driving up the price of weed?

I was under the impression that the good stuff was grown in the US and you only got "ditch weed" from Mexico/ Latin America.


You are correct, however if K-Mart and Wal-Mart is taken out of the picture Target drives it's prices up due to increased demand.  Savy?
2013-02-04 12:54:26 PM
1 votes:
www.atypicallyrelevant.com
2013-02-04 12:51:36 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: I hated doing drug interdiction work personally while on active duty. The REAL problems stem from my fellow Americans excession consumption of illegal drugs.

/Legalizing pot would be a step in the right direction, IMHO


I'm sorry sir... Did I really just hear a US Military Vet take an alternative position to that ordered to the nation the Federal Government? 

<favorites>
<passes out>
2013-02-04 12:48:26 PM
1 votes:

nmemkha: We just HAVE to blow the money shooting at brown people.


Would you prefer we shoot at really white people? I hear Germany gets uppity every few decades or so. Idiot
2013-02-04 12:47:21 PM
1 votes:
war will never be over until the great & terrible day of the Lord!
2013-02-04 12:47:09 PM
1 votes:
Why is Obama driving up the price of weed?
2013-02-04 12:45:27 PM
1 votes:
www.wearysloth.com

I have no recollection, Senator
2013-02-04 12:44:54 PM
1 votes:

nmemkha: We just HAVE to blow the money shooting at brown people.


In the War on Drugs, everything is black or white.
2013-02-04 12:42:16 PM
1 votes:
We just HAVE to blow the money shooting at brown people.
 
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