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(Think Progress)   With all this complaining about "public sector workers" being an expansion of the government, we tend to forget that they are really teachers, cops, and road repairmen   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 816
    More: Obvious, teachers, public investment, government spending, public sector, Carly Fiorina, Paul Krugman, workers  
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2532 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Feb 2013 at 1:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-04 11:38:49 AM  
Waste of money!

People should be able to police themselves, teach themselves, repair their own roads and put out their own fires with the strength of sheer boostrappiness.
 
2013-02-04 11:40:46 AM  
So the this is the new talking point?  The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?

The left has been trying to create this meme for a while:

We should cut spending
Okay, but that means we have to fire teachers and cops and fireman (because that is the only place we can possibly save any money)
 
2013-02-04 11:43:08 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: So the this is the new talking point?  The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?

The left has been trying to create this meme for a while:

We should cut spending
Okay, but that means we have to fire teachers and cops and fireman (because that is the only place we can possibly save any money)


best part.... forever
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-04 11:45:43 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: So the this is the new talking point?  The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?

The left has been trying to create this meme for a while:

We should cut spending
Okay, but that means we have to fire teachers and cops and fireman (because that is the only place we can possibly save any money)


No, that's just what the wingnuts on the right want to cut.  Heaven forbid that we close a military base that the DoD doesn't want.
 
2013-02-04 11:48:48 AM  
We shouldn't cut spending.
 
2013-02-04 12:00:21 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: So the this is the new talking point? The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?


How about you get down to specifics for once:

Please list the various kinds of jobs are there in the public sector and which ones would you like cut?

tenpoundsofcheese: We should cut spending


Okay, what? Be specific.
 
2013-02-04 12:00:41 PM  

vpb: tenpoundsofcheese: So the this is the new talking point?  The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?

The left has been trying to create this meme for a while:

We should cut spending
Okay, but that means we have to fire teachers and cops and fireman (because that is the only place we can possibly save any money)

No, that's just what the wingnuts on the right want to cut.  Heaven forbid that we close a military base that the DoD doesn't want.

So you are saying that krugman is wingnut from the right? Interesting viewpoint.

 
2013-02-04 12:00:55 PM  
i.imgur.com

What public sector employees might also look like. Not saying its good or bad but there it is. Pundits rarely like to talk about this aspect, Krugman or otherwise.
 
2013-02-04 12:04:38 PM  
With retirement benefits far more generous than most of us in the private sector will ever see.
 
2013-02-04 12:05:16 PM  
Road repairmen.........that should be contracted out. Eight guys walking around in their big white boots, two guys with motorola two-ways in their hands jabbering away gesturing wildly, two guys leaning against the truck where the water cooler is, one guy at one end of the site grimmed face and self-aggrandizing with a traffic flag, one semi-hot chick at the other end looking bored and finally one poor bastardo actually using a shovel.
 
2013-02-04 12:05:52 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: So the this is the new talking point?  The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?

The left has been trying to create this meme for a while:

We should cut spending
Okay, but that means we have to fire teachers and cops and fireman (because that is the only place we can possibly save any money)


Why don't you support the troops?
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-04 12:06:00 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?


The vast majority of the growth in public employment has been at the state level over decades. You can't really tell people outside of your state that you know better than they do concerning their levels of state employment. If you're talking about Federal government jobs, you need to be specific as to why those types of jobs should be cut, especially given that the population of the country is growing and it takes more people to deliver goods and services as a result.
 
2013-02-04 12:11:57 PM  

slayer199: With retirement benefits far more generous than most of us in the private sector will ever see.


And in turn often lower yearly pay for the same work than in the private sector. That has been the historical tradeoff.
 
2013-02-04 12:11:57 PM  

Ishkur: People should be able to police themselves, teach themselves, repair their own roads and put out their own fires with the strength of sheer boostrappiness.


Think like a freeper lessons:

police themselves : 2nd Amendment
teach themselves : Home Schooling
repair their own roads : Off road- monster trucks
 
2013-02-04 12:13:51 PM  

Somacandra: And in turn often lower yearly pay for the same work than in the private sector. That has been the historical tradeoff.


Exactly.  So every time someone complain that teachers, firefighters, or cops don't make enough they need to be reminded that their retirement benefits are very generous.
 
2013-02-04 12:16:45 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: So the this is the new talking point?  The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?

The left has been trying to create this meme for a while:

We should cut spending
Okay, but that means we have to fire teachers and cops and fireman (because that is the only place we can possibly save any money)


so who's jobs did YOU want to cut?
 
2013-02-04 12:17:26 PM  

slayer199: With retirement benefits far more generous than most of us in the private sector will ever see.


Gee maybe that's because most of them are UNIONIZED. You want better benefits? Join a union.
 
2013-02-04 12:19:51 PM  

Weaver95: so who's jobs did YOU want to cut?


I'm sure it is a nameless, faceless individual that he has no idea what exactly the person does. Just that he needs to go.
 
2013-02-04 12:20:50 PM  
I don't know the number for every state, but in my state the breakdown for public employees is about 58% education (K-12 + higher ed), 8% police/fire, and 4% highway. You add in another 5% for prisons and we're talking about a quarter of public employees involved in all the rest of the functions of state and local government.
 
2013-02-04 12:22:48 PM  

slayer199: every time someone complain that teachers, firefighters, or cops don't make enough they need to be reminded that their retirement benefits are very generous.


By your logic, private sector employees thus can't biatch about their retirement as in your original post. So everyone's unhappy and you've contradicted yourself in the meantime. Brilliant contribution to the discussion, old chap. If only this thread was about public sector pay increases rather than whether public sector employees should have jobs at all.
 
2013-02-04 12:31:08 PM  
If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.
 
2013-02-04 12:31:25 PM  

Dinki: Gee maybe that's because most of them are UNIONIZED. You want better benefits? Join a union.


I'm not complaining but those pro-public union seem to be blind to the fiscal realities.

There's a major difference between the public and private sector.  It's in a union's best interest NOT to bankrupt a company in the private sector (unless "Too Big to Fail" and the government will bail you out).  Revenues in the public sector are not unlimited (despite what those on the left think) but public sector unions operate under the assumption that the pot is unlimited.  A lot of the cities going bankrupt are doing so because of unfunded pension liabilities.  Detroit has $80 million in unfunded pension liabilities (they will go bankrupt).  They can't tax their way out of the deficit.  Stockton California's pension liability prior to bankruptcy was $37 million (not including another $17 million in retiree health benefits) both of which amounted to a quarter of the city's budget.  It's not sustainable and you can't tax your way out of it.

It isn't really "fair" to tell someone that is retired "we appreciate your 30+ years of service but tough crap, we're broke and no pension for you," but that doesn't mean that current workers shouldn't see reductions in retirement benefits.
 
2013-02-04 12:33:22 PM  

Somacandra: By your logic, private sector employees thus can't biatch about their retirement as in your original post. So everyone's unhappy and you've contradicted yourself in the meantime. Brilliant contribution to the discussion, old chap. If only this thread was about public sector pay increases rather than whether public sector employees should have jobs at all.


I'm not biatching about my retirement.  Stating that public sector employees have  generous retirement in comparison to the private sector is not biatching.  It's pointing out a fact.
 
2013-02-04 12:37:11 PM  

SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.


If local governments paid $2/hour, they could hire everyone in America.
 
2013-02-04 12:56:52 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.

If local governments paid $2/hour, they could hire everyone in America.


No, because cops and teachers won't work for so little pay.  But you get the idea anyways.  The more that cops and teachers are paid, the fewer cops and teachers you'll be able to hire.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-04 01:08:56 PM  
tenpoundsofcheese:
So you are saying that krugman is wingnut from the right? Interesting viewpoint.

No.  Get someone with better reading comprehension to explain it to you.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-04 01:11:55 PM  

SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.


Sure, whatever sort they could get for minimum wage.  Not that they would do that instead of funneling the money to their supporters.
 
2013-02-04 01:23:41 PM  

SkinnyHead: No, because cops and teachers won't work for so little pay.  But you get the idea anyways.  The more that cops and teachers are paid, the fewer cops and teachers you'll be able to hire.


So cops wouldn't work for 2 dollars an hour but also NOT demand that their fellow cops pass mandatory safety training with a weapon?

Get out of the swamp much, bubba?
 
Bf+
2013-02-04 01:28:37 PM  

SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.


Deep Thoughts with SkinnyHead...
 
2013-02-04 01:29:18 PM  
Again, don't go into debt to pay for things with an ROI less than one.  Go into debt to pay for things like education, infrastructure repair, and R+D.  Don't go into debt to pay for things like the military or safety nets for the elderly.

Cut government spending on things with an ROI less than one.  Increase government spending on things with an ROI greater than one.

If you want the government to spend money on things with an ROI less than one, raise taxes to pay for it, or don't spend the money.

That is all it takes to successfully run an economy (from the government's perspective, anyway).
 
2013-02-04 01:29:30 PM  
  CARLY FIORINA:


BAHAHAHHAAHA! Does this loser count as a representative for the Republicans on fiscal matters?
 
2013-02-04 01:30:10 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: So the this is the new talking point?  The only jobs in the public sector are teachers and cops and road repair people?

The left has been trying to create this meme for a while:

We should cut spending
Okay, but that means we have to fire teachers and cops and fireman (because that is the only place we can possibly save any money)


So then you are against cutting those jobs? Or is this just bs posturing.
 
2013-02-04 01:31:27 PM  

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 800x532]

What public sector employees might also look like. Not saying its good or bad but there it is. Pundits rarely like to talk about this aspect, Krugman or otherwise.


BCGs... They look better now then they did 20 years ago.
 
2013-02-04 01:35:09 PM  
Privatize everything.  I'm sure it will all work out in the end because the Free Market has never been wrong before.
 
2013-02-04 01:36:27 PM  
Who the f*ck is We?  We the Derpublicans, of whom we cannot stand, one NASCAR rally, under spaghetti monster, for liberty and tax breaks for all?  Those guys?  Yeah, f*ck them, subby.
 
2013-02-04 01:36:34 PM  

slayer199: With retirement benefits far more generous than most of us in the private sector will ever see.


Do you not believe that you have to pay people better to attract better employees? And shouldn't the government  want the best people for the job?
 
2013-02-04 01:36:51 PM  

Ishkur: Waste of money!

People should be able to police themselves, teach themselves, repair their own roads and put out their own fires with the strength of sheer boostrappiness.


I blame laziness.
 
2013-02-04 01:37:05 PM  

Bf+: SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.

Deep Thoughts with SkinnyHead...


It makes perfect sense. Unions are just an organization of thugs who want to milk as many people as possible by charging them dues, leading to bloat, which is why we should get rid of them. It's obvious that to do this they work as hard as they can to keep people from being hired, leading to a deficit of workers, which is why we should get rid of them.

Duh. It's perfectly understandable doublethink.
 
2013-02-04 01:37:14 PM  
What's this "we" business? Normal people understood this all along.
 
2013-02-04 01:38:45 PM  

CheatCommando: slayer199: With retirement benefits far more generous than most of us in the private sector will ever see.

Do you not believe that you have to pay people better to attract better employees? And shouldn't the government  want the best people for the job?


In Conservative logic, that only applies to CEOs and a few other corporate officers.  Everyone else should just be thankful that they have a job.
 
2013-02-04 01:39:01 PM  
Because to paranoid "small 'l': libertarians  people working for the government aren't people, they're prisoners, just as we are all prisoners of the Behemoth.

STARVE THE BEAST!
 
2013-02-04 01:39:42 PM  
"We" tend to forget?
 
2013-02-04 01:40:46 PM  

Corvus: CARLY FIORINA:


BAHAHAHHAAHA! Does this loser count as a representative for the Republicans on fiscal matters?


If the topic is killing jobs, sure.
 
2013-02-04 01:41:34 PM  

Charlie Chingas: Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 800x532]

What public sector employees might also look like. Not saying its good or bad but there it is. Pundits rarely like to talk about this aspect, Krugman or otherwise.

BCGs... They look better now then they did 20 years ago.


Now those black hornrims they had thirty years ago ...
 
2013-02-04 01:41:55 PM  

SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.


Quality is more important than quantity.

Getting more cops and teachers (and paying them less) is like signing 10 more third string quarterbacks -- it doesn't make your team any better.

High pay, high standards, and high barrier to entry is how we produce professional, top-quality public servants. Diluting the pay and standards and hiring more dilutes the talent-pool and makes their services lazy, shoddy, corrupt and ineffectual.
 
2013-02-04 01:42:08 PM  
Everyone but the road repairmen, GTFO.
 
2013-02-04 01:45:28 PM  

SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.


You male em sound better all the time skinny head.
 
2013-02-04 01:46:05 PM  

Corvus: CARLY FIORINA:


BAHAHAHHAAHA! Does this loser count as a representative for the Republicans on fiscal matters?


George W. Bush, Donald Trump, "Papa" John Schnatter... Yeah, I'd say Carly Fiorina fits the model for the Republican definition of business skills.
 
2013-02-04 01:46:25 PM  

Ishkur: SkinnyHead: If there were no public employee unions, local governments would be able to hire more cops and teachers.

Quality is more important than quantity.

Getting more cops and teachers (and paying them less) is like signing 10 more third string quarterbacks -- it doesn't make your team any better.

High pay, high standards, and high barrier to entry is how we produce professional, top-quality public servants. Diluting the pay and standards and hiring more dilutes the talent-pool and makes their services lazy, shoddy, corrupt and ineffectual.


By "High Barrier to Entry" do you mean requiring them to have an education degree and some certifications?
 
2013-02-04 01:46:46 PM  

CheatCommando: Do you not believe that you have to pay people better to attract better employees? And shouldn't the government want the best people for the job?


Nope.  People that want a career in public service should not get into it for the money....and most of them don't.  Teachers, cops and firefighters know there's not a lot of money in those jobs.  If making money is their primary concern, they should look to the private sector.

I know a little something about this.  Around 19 years ago I started my career as a police officer.  I started out making $24k a year (at that time I would have topped out at $45k a year after 5 years).  Did I get into law enforcement for the money?  No.  I got into it because I wanted to help people. Did I quit because of the money?  No.  After 2 years on the job it was simply too depressing to continue.  Money had nothing to do with either decision.
 
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