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(New York Daily News)   Little Italy, 1926-2013   (nydailynews.com) divider line 23
    More: Sad, Italy, Brooks Brothers, Italian restaurants, Sofia Coppola, young professional, immigrants  
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18320 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2013 at 10:40 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-04 10:50:05 AM  
6 votes:

Once growing Chinese community in the nabe has also diminished


Can we all agree that people who use "nabe" should be punched repeatedly in the groin?
2013-02-04 09:02:53 AM  
5 votes:
Meh.  You can't really sustain Little whatevers without new immigrants coming from the Old Country.  The kids of the Little Italians from years past probably all moved out to Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island, and NJ a long time ago, and immigration from Italy is probably miniscule by this point.

Chinatown will shrink as time goes on, too.  Flushing (and increasingly Elmhurst) is the new Chinatown, with Koreatown next door.
2013-02-04 11:52:13 AM  
3 votes:
Manhattan has changed a thousand different ways throughout its short history.  This isn't anything to cry about.  I'm sitting in a skyscraper off Times Square - which is now littered with thousands of tourists - in an area that used to be called the Tenderloin district and was known for brothels and gambling dens.  Where are those things now?  Would this be a better place if those things were still around?

The Italians no longer need the area.  They're gone.  A few restaurants are there as a tourist trap but look, other people are living and working there now.
2013-02-04 11:03:42 AM  
3 votes:
Sadly this is happening far too often in America.

Money and youth moving into your neighborhood are about the worst things imaginable.

Your dreams of stagnation and poverty are crushed out of existence by attractive cool kids with energy and new ideas.
2013-02-04 11:25:55 AM  
2 votes:

Mike_1962: What's amusing is the ambience of the neighbourhood is probably what attracted the influx, but by moving in in numbers, they destroy it.


That's very much like all the people who want to live out in the country. Once they all move out there, suddenly it's just the same old suburban sprawl with the same chain stores and restaurants.

The first rule of suburban planning is, "Name the subdivision after that which it destroyed, or else come up with something completely pretentious." The second rule is to let a two-year-old on crack come up with the street plan.
2013-02-05 02:16:55 PM  
1 votes:

Crewmannumber6: 1926?


www.hrwiki.org
20X6!!!
2013-02-04 01:03:15 PM  
1 votes:
I agree with everyone that says overturning neighborhoods is common in NYC--circle of life stuff here.  No big deal.

Besides, the food there was really not that great.  I've eaten at 3-4 different restaurants down there over the last 20 years, and each of them was just okay.  That's not to say we don't have good Italian food in NYC--we really, really do--it just doesn't happen to be in Little Italy.
2013-02-04 12:53:03 PM  
1 votes:
Italians have assimilated, and because it's not such a shiat-poor country anymore, Italy has stopped sending out its poor to seek opportunity in America. Inste4ad, a new cycle of immigration is taking place. Here in Northern Virginia, we have a ton of Indian immigrants (taking IT jobs from Americans but that's another thread), although there is no Little India as such. We do have a Little Korea in Annandale and a Little Vietnam in Falls Church.
2013-02-04 12:30:44 PM  
1 votes:
At La Bella Ferrara, the monthly rent went from $7,000 to $17,000 in just two years - and the sad owners closed after 42 years in business.

"We serve dessert and coffee, we can't afford that," said co-owner Frank Angileri, 69. "They pushed us out. . . . Italian businesses can't survive here, with the rising rents and the economy. "It's a shame, it's such a shame. They kicked us out like dogs."


A damn shame indeed.
2013-02-04 12:12:12 PM  
1 votes:
Same thing in SF.  Chinatown is right next to Little Italy.  And their businesses are slowly closing.  My fav place for cannoli's is gone along with other neighborhood places.  Although all the guys who apparently have no jobs and just hang out with their fellow Italian paisans sipping little cups of coffee after coffee still hang out at the shops there.

Like NYC, I'm sure, its a combo of gentrification, rising rents, no new immigrants and maybe the expansion of Chinatown.  I say maybe because no Chinese immigrant who has any choice would want to move to Chinatown (in any city).  Those tend to be the poorest of the poor.

Also, Chinatowns tend to be populated by old school Canto, Hokkien, Fukien folks, who may not get along with the new Mandarin speaking immigrants.
2013-02-04 12:08:06 PM  
1 votes:

ryarger: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Manhattan has changed a thousand different ways throughout its short history.  This isn't anything to cry about.  I'm sitting in a skyscraper off Times Square - which is now littered with thousands of tourists - in an area that used to be called the Tenderloin district and was known for brothels and gambling dens.  Where are those things now?  Would this be a better place if those things were still around?

The Italians no longer need the area.  They're gone.  A few restaurants are there as a tourist trap but look, other people are living and working there now.

You're not entirely incorrect, but what many find ironic is that the many of the "other people" who are living and working there now are living and working there now specifically because of the services provided by the people they have displaced.

In other words - the rich move to Little Italy because it's "Little Italy". Rents go up because the rich live there. It's no longer "Little Italy".

It's like Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle at a macro level.


Yeah, that's true, but in the case of Little Italy this hang-wringing is misplaced.  'Italians' - of any stripe - haven't lived there for years.  The area's name has been propped up by a few Italian restaurants owned and operated by people who likely lived in the suburbs.

This city is definitely rife with gentrification and populations almost forcibly removed to make room for this or that (cf. what Columbia U. has been doing), but Little Italy is a case of the original population finding success and leaving on their own a long time ago, much as the Lower East Side is no longer packed with the waves of immigrants from a hundred years ago.
2013-02-04 12:01:25 PM  
1 votes:

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Manhattan has changed a thousand different ways throughout its short history.  This isn't anything to cry about.  I'm sitting in a skyscraper off Times Square - which is now littered with thousands of tourists - in an area that used to be called the Tenderloin district and was known for brothels and gambling dens.  Where are those things now?  Would this be a better place if those things were still around?

The Italians no longer need the area.  They're gone.  A few restaurants are there as a tourist trap but look, other people are living and working there now.


You're not entirely incorrect, but what many find ironic is that the many of the "other people" who are living and working there now are living and working there now specifically because of the services provided by the people they have displaced.

In other words - the rich move to Little Italy because it's "Little Italy". Rents go up because the rich live there. It's no longer "Little Italy".

It's like Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle at a macro level.
2013-02-04 11:54:57 AM  
1 votes:
Read the whole article and this is about landowners raising rent by multiples. Something usually illegal. The rents far outstrip the earning potential of the local businesses. It also sounds like people became wealthier and could afford to move out. It seemed like it was a poorer place to live, but tourists may have liked the cuisine.
2013-02-04 11:26:23 AM  
1 votes:
The Chinese are buying up our country with the money we gave them for 20 years worth of plastic crap.
2013-02-04 11:13:17 AM  
1 votes:
What's amusing is the ambience of the neighbourhood is probably what attracted the influx, but by moving in in numbers, they destroy it.
mjg
2013-02-04 11:12:17 AM  
1 votes:
And for anyone looking for real Italian food in NYC head over to DaSilvano on 6th Ave
mjg
2013-02-04 11:07:40 AM  
1 votes:

Loucifer: I think I'll move in and open up an Olive Garden.


Seriously, most of the remaining Italian restaurants on Mulberry are about as good as Olive Garden.
2013-02-04 10:59:06 AM  
1 votes:
Little Italy has sucked for years.  Even the "Italian" restaurants there are owned by a bunch of Albanians or Croats, not that it really makes a difference.
2013-02-04 10:54:54 AM  
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: Once growing Chinese community in the nabe has also diminished


Can we all agree that people who use "nabe" should be punched repeatedly in the groin?


I came here to say this.
2013-02-04 10:47:30 AM  
1 votes:
pre.cloudfront.goodinc.com
2013-02-04 10:46:24 AM  
1 votes:
It is still sad when a culturally significant neighborhood fades away.  I still remember the Combat zone in Boston getting smaller and smaller until it was nothing but Tufts medical school and offices.  It was a sad lose.
2013-02-04 10:44:33 AM  
1 votes:

Dead for Tax Reasons: If only there were an orginazation of italian gentlemen who could express their displeasure with the local property owners


They moved out too.
2013-02-04 09:27:32 AM  
1 votes:

RodneyToady: Meh.  You can't really sustain Little whatevers without new immigrants coming from the Old Country.  The kids of the Little Italians from years past probably all moved out to Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island, and NJ a long time ago, and immigration from Italy is probably miniscule by this point.

Chinatown will shrink as time goes on, too.  Flushing (and increasingly Elmhurst) is the new Chinatown, with Koreatown next door.


It's true that Flushing is the new Chinatown. I think, Chinatown in Manhattan is only there as a tourist trap area that most Chinese people, especially recent immigrants, don't go to. Flushing is where all the recent immigrants go. Plus, the demographics of Chinatown (Manhattan and Flushing) has changed a lot, too. Previously, most of the Chinatown residents are Cantonese speakers, but the recent immigrants in Flushing are predominantly Mandarin speakers.
 
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