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(CBS Sports)   Boston Celtics: Rajon who?   (cbssports.com) divider line 22
    More: Followup, Celtics, Matt Barnes, Jared Sullinger, Jamal Crawford, Courtney Lee, Clippers, Leandro Barbosa, Vinny Del Negro  
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1305 clicks; posted to Sports » on 04 Feb 2013 at 11:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-04 10:29:45 AM
Yeah, they're 4-0 since the injury. They beat Miami (which was cool), and also the bad Kings, the awful Magic, and the Chris Paul-less Clippers.

They've been fun to watch this week - with the offense not always going through Rondo, everybody gets to play to their own strengths a little bit more, and they've started running a great pure fast break - but it's a serious stretch to think they're better right now without him.
 
2013-02-04 10:38:40 AM
What usually happens is all the teams need to figure out what the Celtics are doing. What might have worked against them a couple weeks ago doesn't work anymore. Somebody will figure them out and other teams will copy.
 
2013-02-04 12:01:43 PM
Also, prior to this win streak, he'd missed 30+ games and they had a .606 win percentage without him and a .604 win percentage with him. I think we can safely say he's not a real MVP candidate. Ever.
 
2013-02-04 12:19:37 PM
Celtics fan here. I said they should trade him 2 weeks ago to my buddy.  I believe they can get some good draft picks and someone cheaper.  Look what Kobe is doing now, not hogging it as much.  For a player to put up the numbers like Rondo, it means he has the ball most of the time.  I don't like that idea.
 
2013-02-04 12:25:28 PM

JohnnyRebel88: Celtics fan here. I said they should trade him 2 weeks ago to my buddy.  I believe they can get some good draft picks and someone cheaper.  Look what Kobe is doing now, not hogging it as much.  For a player to put up the numbers like Rondo, it means he has the ball most of the time.  I don't like that idea.


Aren't point guards supposed to have the ball most of the time?
 
2013-02-04 12:26:22 PM
It's almost like he's not as special as a lot of boston fans like to believe.
 
2013-02-04 01:48:12 PM
His ability to show up and dominate big games is what you pay him for, I guess.  He was amazing against Miami in the playoffs last year.  That being said, he definitely doesn't bring it 100% every night, which is probably why their regular season record won't suffer too much while he's out.  It MAY even get better because they'll be forced to properly integrate Terry and Lee at this point.
 
2013-02-04 02:02:47 PM

SuperChuck: JohnnyRebel88: Celtics fan here. I said they should trade him 2 weeks ago to my buddy.  I believe they can get some good draft picks and someone cheaper.  Look what Kobe is doing now, not hogging it as much.  For a player to put up the numbers like Rondo, it means he has the ball most of the time.  I don't like that idea.

Aren't point guards supposed to have the ball most of the time?


Are they?  When was the last pt guard to win the scoring title?  Allen Iverson, I believe won it one year, but he was considered #2 guard, not point.  That was Eric Snow.  They are supposed to pass and generate points like John Stockton. This is my opinion, as you might have your own.  However, I believe that most caches will agree with me. Why would you want the shortest person on the court with the ball the entire time?  To me, that is irrational.
 
2013-02-04 02:15:07 PM
Yea but it feels like it's been a month since the trade rumors for Pierce and Garnett have started, because the Celtics won't go far in the playoffs, if they even make it.
 
2013-02-04 02:20:24 PM
Rondo has it in his head he is Derrick Rose all of a sudden.

Dish first, shoot second sir. That's your strength.
 
2013-02-04 02:27:15 PM

JohnnyRebel88: SuperChuck: JohnnyRebel88: Celtics fan here. I said they should trade him 2 weeks ago to my buddy.  I believe they can get some good draft picks and someone cheaper.  Look what Kobe is doing now, not hogging it as much.  For a player to put up the numbers like Rondo, it means he has the ball most of the time.  I don't like that idea.

Aren't point guards supposed to have the ball most of the time?

Are they?  When was the last pt guard to win the scoring title?  Allen Iverson, I believe won it one year, but he was considered #2 guard, not point.  That was Eric Snow.  They are supposed to pass and generate points like John Stockton. This is my opinion, as you might have your own.  However, I believe that most caches will agree with me. Why would you want the shortest person on the court with the ball the entire time?  To me, that is irrational.


Considering he was third on the team in scoring and leading the league in assists when he got hurt, it sounds like he was doing what you wanted him to. I always heard the knock on him was that he wasn't willing enough to take shots when he should.
 
2013-02-04 02:28:42 PM

BunkoSquad: Yeah, they're 4-0 since the injury. They beat Miami (which was cool), and also the bad Kings, the awful Magic, and the Chris Paul-less Clippers.

They've been fun to watch this week - with the offense not always going through Rondo, everybody gets to play to their own strengths a little bit more, and they've started running a great pure fast break - but it's a serious stretch to think they're better right now without him.


I also think that while they may look good in the short term, he never sits for THAT long.  He's gone for the whole season now and his most important teammates are OLD, and the younger bench guys have been crap the whole season.  You start putting a few more minutes on KG ever game that's going to catch up to you in a hurry.
 
2013-02-04 02:38:15 PM

JohnnyRebel88: SuperChuck: JohnnyRebel88: Celtics fan here. I said they should trade him 2 weeks ago to my buddy.  I believe they can get some good draft picks and someone cheaper.  Look what Kobe is doing now, not hogging it as much.  For a player to put up the numbers like Rondo, it means he has the ball most of the time.  I don't like that idea.

Aren't point guards supposed to have the ball most of the time?

Are they?  When was the last pt guard to win the scoring title?  Allen Iverson, I believe won it one year, but he was considered #2 guard, not point.  That was Eric Snow.  They are supposed to pass and generate points like John Stockton. This is my opinion, as you might have your own.  However, I believe that most caches will agree with me. Why would you want the shortest person on the court with the ball the entire time?  To me, that is irrational.


IT WAS TINY!!!!!!
1972-1973.

 Also led the league in assists same year.

Only player to ever win the scoring and assist title in the same year.

Tiny was/is overrated.
 
2013-02-04 02:42:55 PM

SuperChuck: I always heard the knock on him was that he wasn't willing enough to take shots when he should.


Well, the knock on him is that he's a poor jump shooter and not very good from the FT line, especially for a PG (62% career). So the knock is that he's not aggressive enough at the end of the game because he doesn't really want to draw contact and end up taking those foul shots.
 
2013-02-04 04:05:55 PM

SuperChuck: JohnnyRebel88: SuperChuck: JohnnyRebel88: Celtics fan here. I said they should trade him 2 weeks ago to my buddy.  I believe they can get some good draft picks and someone cheaper.  Look what Kobe is doing now, not hogging it as much.  For a player to put up the numbers like Rondo, it means he has the ball most of the time.  I don't like that idea.

Aren't point guards supposed to have the ball most of the time?

Are they?  When was the last pt guard to win the scoring title?  Allen Iverson, I believe won it one year, but he was considered #2 guard, not point.  That was Eric Snow.  They are supposed to pass and generate points like John Stockton. This is my opinion, as you might have your own.  However, I believe that most caches will agree with me. Why would you want the shortest person on the court with the ball the entire time?  To me, that is irrational.

Considering he was third on the team in scoring and leading the league in assists when he got hurt, it sounds like he was doing what you wanted him to. I always heard the knock on him was that he wasn't willing enough to take shots when he should.


I heard that Ray Allen hated him and he is a pretty classy player in my opinion, I also believe Rondo's attitude played a part in his departure from Boston.  Stars can be cancer in the clubhouse when their ego gets too inflated.  I would take Ray Allen's assessment of Rondo before anyone else.  There are also many things we will never hear that happened in the locker room, we only know what has been told.  But you still didn't dispute what I said above and the role of a pt guard.  So what is the role of a point guard in your eyes?  I am not trying to argue with you, but I think the"ideal" pt. guard would be someone like John Stockton.

They should be leaders and not care about scoring.  That's the way I played and probably could of played college ball if I wished.  I loved defense and have clippings from the paper when I averaged 24 pts.per game in a tournament that featured the elite players within the valley.  I also didn't like to shoot, but did when necessary.  I preferred to steal the ball and preferred playing defense, not many players do this, thus leading to my success and easily lead my the league in two categories, statistically speaking.  Most of my points came from fast breaks or free throws.  I tried to learn from players from my dad's era, and took his advice. It worked and was asked to go to 2 different schools after I was scouted at a tournament, in which I declined.  I still can shoot Free Throws better than almost all the NBA players, at one time, my average was around 80% and from the top of the key, I could drill 3 pointers at almost 60%.  That is what I believe a pt guard should be, one that looks to help others exploit their qualities and try to rub off your qualities on them, which I did my best to do, and when necessary, take it into your own hands.  I still remember missing a FT to tie a game.  That is also etched in my head, but no one would remember that.

I will say that the game has changed in many ways in the last 3 decades, hopefully like everything else, it comes full-circle and people start playing more defense in the league.  Someone will figure out how to be a star in a different way, and others will follow.  That is how things work, the outlier eventually gets exploited and becomes the truth.

However, this is still my opinion and when times change, so will the play of the game.  I wish Iverson just would of been on a team that didn't rely on him 90% of the time.  I believe he would have been regarded as a better player if he scored 20 pts a game and had 10 assists, and think he would still be in the league.  He just really never had the help and was the leader that had to shoot the ball.  Rondo has a pretty good squad on his side, good shooters and young talent that are hustling with and without him.  I don't really like Rondo and wish they could of shopped him around prior to his injury.  Like I said, this is just what I believe to be true, and I know that different situations will need different players, as times change.  Remember that many statistics are just window dressing.   I averaged 24 pts in that tournament because we only had 2 games, as we lost in the 2nd round.  But it still didn't stop me from making all tournament team.  As for Rondo, his assists are just spread over the floor now with different players, which really means the ball is moving more, which will lead to more open shots.  This is just my analysis and you are more than welcome to tell your perspective as I just did mine. and I will 100% listen to it and take it into consideration.  I didn't come here to argue about things, I would of liked to have reasonable conversation.  Have a good day.
 
2013-02-04 04:39:04 PM

JohnnyRebel88: However, this is still my opinion and when times change, so will the play of the game. I wish Iverson just would of been on a team that didn't rely on him 90% of the time. I believe he would have been regarded as a better player if he scored 20 pts a game and had 10 assists, and think he would still be in the league. He just really never had the help and was the leader that had to shoot the ball. Rondo has a pretty good squad on his side, good shooters and young talent that are hustling with and without him. I don't really like Rondo and wish they could of shopped him around prior to his injury. Like I said, this is just what I believe to be true, and I know that different situations will need different players, as times change. Remember that many statistics are just window dressing. I averaged 24 pts in that tournament because we only had 2 games, as we lost in the 2nd round. But it still didn't stop me from making all tournament team. As for Rondo, his assists are just spread over the floor now with different players, which really means the ball is moving more, which will lead to more open shots. This is just my analysis and you are more than welcome to tell your perspective as I just did mine. and I will 100% listen to it and take it into consideration. I didn't come here to argue about things, I would of liked to have reasonable conversation. Have a good day


Rondo is definitely not a Stockton/Steve Nash kind of point guard. He passes very well but he's not much of a shooter. He's more of a Magic Johnson (not on that level obviously) kind of point guard. Still a great passer but more of a penetrator than a shooter. Magic wasn't a great shooter either.

I won't argue that he may not be liked by the team. He does seem like he can be difficult to deal with and there's also an issue with consistent effort. But I still think that with the age of Pierce and Garnett that Rondo is the best player on the team. And that seems to be the opinion of most "expert" observers as well.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to be argumentative, I'm just presenting a different point of view. If you don't think that's reasonable, I'm sorry.
 
2013-02-04 05:21:02 PM
"There's a lot of heart in this team, let me just tell you," Menino told reporters, before adding, "KJ is great but Hondo is really the inspiration. Hondo drives that team."

www.pearweb.org
 
2013-02-04 06:14:21 PM

JohnnyRebel88: I would take Ray Allen's assessment of Rondo before anyone else.


And when have you heard Ray Allen's assessment?

JohnnyRebel88: I heard that Ray Allen hated him


Oh...so you're taking ANYONE else's assessment, because nobody you or I know has heard Ray Allen say he hated Rondo.
 
2013-02-04 06:47:56 PM
SuperChuck:

Rondo is definitely not a Stockton/Steve Nash kind of point guard. He passes very well but he's not much of a shooter. He's more of a Magic Johnson (not on that level obviously) kind of point guard. Still a great passer but more of a penetrator than a shooter. Magic wasn't a great shooter either.

I won't argue that he may not be liked by the team. He does seem like he can be difficult to deal with and there's also an issue with consistent effort. But I still think that with the age of Pierce and Garnett that Rondo is the best player on the team. And that seems to be the opinion ...


I agree with that Garnett and Pierce age is a problem, and also Terry, but they limit his minutes and it's a shame that they can't afford to rest the other two, something similar to the Spurs giving their aging, ailing stars the proper rest.  I still don't see that working inthe postseason for them.

However, I believe that trading Rondo would be the best option for the future, they need to look beyond Garnett being there for another good solid winning season, Pierce isn't far behind in retirement as well.  Rondo isn't enough and I believe can be replaced.  By the way they are playing without him, there is some truth to it.  I guess Ainge, who I believe is a great GM, will do something, but Rondo isn't worth crap till he steps on the floor after his rehab.  The Sixers are going through something similar to this right now, however, there might be a team out there that might take a gamble on him, as the Sixers did with Bynum.  We shall see.  I also am a Sixers fan.  Sixers 1st, Celtics 2nd.

Don't take offense that I said I didn't want to argue about this, I just typically use that as a disclaimer now because everyone thinks you are a troll and looking to start crap in a thread.  If you don't say what your intent of the conversation is for some reason on FARK, everyone seems to jump down your throat. So, I apologize if you took that the wrong way.
 
2013-02-04 08:45:43 PM
Boston Celtics who?

That's more like it. Bruins play the stupid filthy Nucks on Wed night, and the NE Huskies are in the Beanpot final.

Woot.
 
2013-02-04 09:53:46 PM

fatalvenom: Boston Celtics who?

That's more like it. Bruins play the stupid filthy Habs on Wed night, and the NE Huskies are in the Beanpot final.

Woot.



Damn...I meant that.
 
2013-02-04 09:58:55 PM

JohnnyRebel88: SuperChuck:

Rondo is definitely not a Stockton/Steve Nash kind of point guard. He passes very well but he's not much of a shooter. He's more of a Magic Johnson (not on that level obviously) kind of point guard. Still a great passer but more of a penetrator than a shooter. Magic wasn't a great shooter either.

I won't argue that he may not be liked by the team. He does seem like he can be difficult to deal with and there's also an issue with consistent effort. But I still think that with the age of Pierce and Garnett that Rondo is the best player on the team. And that seems to be the opinion ...

I agree with that Garnett and Pierce age is a problem, and also Terry, but they limit his minutes and it's a shame that they can't afford to rest the other two, something similar to the Spurs giving their aging, ailing stars the proper rest.  I still don't see that working inthe postseason for them.

However, I believe that trading Rondo would be the best option for the future, they need to look beyond Garnett being there for another good solid winning season, Pierce isn't far behind in retirement as well.  Rondo isn't enough and I believe can be replaced.  By the way they are playing without him, there is some truth to it.  I guess Ainge, who I believe is a great GM, will do something, but Rondo isn't worth crap till he steps on the floor after his rehab.  The Sixers are going through something similar to this right now, however, there might be a team out there that might take a gamble on him, as the Sixers did with Bynum.  We shall see.  I also am a Sixers fan.  Sixers 1st, Celtics 2nd.

Don't take offense that I said I didn't want to argue about this, I just typically use that as a disclaimer now because everyone thinks you are a troll and looking to start crap in a thread.  If you don't say what your intent of the conversation is for some reason on FARK, everyone seems to jump down your throat. So, I apologize if you took that the wrong way.


Nope, it's cool. You're right about Garnett and Pierce. That window has closed. But I wouldn't trade Rondo unless I got a huge haul in return because they've got nothing else. A 1st round pick and a couple of B level players at least. Don't have to be all-stars but I'd want someone who will contribute down the road.
 
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