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(Gizmodo)   New Star Trek trailer is full of Enterprise distress calls. He's givin' her all she's got   ( gizmodo.com.au) divider line
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6010 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Feb 2013 at 7:48 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



177 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-02-04 01:30:44 AM  
He is NOT khan. carry on.
 
2013-02-04 04:22:14 AM  

some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.


Gary Mitchell
 
2013-02-04 04:46:37 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell


yes. yes it is.
 
2013-02-04 07:04:52 AM  
Wow, the ship really looks like it takes a beating.

I enjoyed the last one and I'll be in theatres to watch this one as well. You win, Abrams.
 
2013-02-04 07:50:50 AM  
Why wouldn't someone just stun him while he's standing around like that?
 
2013-02-04 07:53:31 AM  
I'm looking forward to it, he did a good job with the last one
 
2013-02-04 07:56:07 AM  
Well they seem to be destroying ships faster than the first ST series. Will Abrams third movie have an Enterprise-A?
 
2013-02-04 08:11:09 AM  
I was underwhelmed by the last Star Trek movie, but this trailer looks very tasty.
 
2013-02-04 08:12:54 AM  
The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.
 
2013-02-04 08:16:27 AM  

Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.


How would you suggest they show plot or character development in a less than minute long preview???
 
2013-02-04 08:28:30 AM  
FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

I guess he never saw Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, or Generations.
 
2013-02-04 08:35:41 AM  
I liked it. Just enough to be teasing without giving anything away.
 
x23
2013-02-04 08:41:05 AM  

AiryAnne: FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

I guess he never saw Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, or Generations.



wasn't looking too hot by the end of Nemesis either. huge portions of the saucer section missing and all.
 
2013-02-04 08:46:56 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Gary Mitchell


He's playing the alternate universe holodeck Moriarty, who found a way to travel back in time.
 
2013-02-04 09:00:56 AM  

imontheinternet: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Gary Mitchell

He's playing the alternate universe holodeck Moriarty, who found a way to travel back in time.


Will this Moriarty be a retarded gay man? Because I really enjoyed that character decision. He should have been even LOUDER and ZANIER.
 
2013-02-04 09:05:33 AM  

some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.


He just said his name was Better, duh.
 
2013-02-04 09:07:50 AM  

AiryAnne: FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

I guess he never saw Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, or Generations.


Or the TV show "Enterprise."  In one episode, the Enterprise takes on four ships and gets curb stomped.  For the rest of the season, the ship is not at 100% since something is always in need of repair.
 
2013-02-04 09:08:22 AM  
looks pretty good.


BTW....can anyone explain the two links that keep popping up? the childhood partners and the stupid hipster one. two stupid links that werent fun or funny. yet we keep having to see them. sorry for the threadjack. i was just wondering
 
2013-02-04 09:11:13 AM  

some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.


I don't know. All that "I'm better at everything than you" stuff sounds like late 20th century Eugenics talk. Abrams has straight up lied about key plot points before (a respectable tactic with how many leaks and spoilers there are these days). The first movie was an action blockbuster for the masses sprinkled with just enough superficial nostalgia to placate the majority of Trek fans. It also showed that Abrams and company have no sense of restraint or tact when it comes to treading Star Trek's sacred ground (milking the Kobayashi Maru for vital plot points, destroying Vulcan, turning everyone into teen prodigies rather than experienced crew, Tyler Perry). The formula was wildly successful both financially and critically.

With that in mind, is there any good reason whatsoever NOT to center this movie around Khan?
 
2013-02-04 09:13:01 AM  

eyeq360: AiryAnne: FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

I guess he never saw Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, or Generations.

Or the TV show "Enterprise."  In one episode, the Enterprise takes on four ships and gets curb stomped.  For the rest of the season, the ship is not at 100% since something is always in need of repair.


And that was even with the couple of episodes where spatial distortions or whatever blew holes in it and then it was magically fine the next episode.
 
2013-02-04 09:20:18 AM  

salvador.hardin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

I don't know. All that "I'm better at everything than you" stuff sounds like late 20th century Eugenics talk. Abrams has straight up lied about key plot points before (a respectable tactic with how many leaks and spoilers there are these days). The first movie was an action blockbuster for the masses sprinkled with just enough superficial nostalgia to placate the majority of Trek fans. It also showed that Abrams and company have no sense of restraint or tact when it comes to treading Star Trek's sacred ground (milking the Kobayashi Maru for vital plot points, destroying Vulcan, turning everyone into teen prodigies rather than experienced crew, Tyler Perry). The formula was wildly successful both financially and critically.

With that in mind, is there any good reason whatsoever NOT to center this movie around Khan?


Yeah, everyone seems to be ignoring that line in order to keep their not Khan predictions up.  If he said I'm better at everything NOW, maybe Mitchell.

Even if you do a great job with Khan, damn, that's big shoes to fill.  Not a good gamble to take
 
2013-02-04 09:28:53 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell


Sybok
 
2013-02-04 09:29:07 AM  
FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

So, they're going to watch old episodes of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo on the viewscreens?
 
2013-02-04 09:32:57 AM  

AiryAnne: FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

I guess he never saw Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, or Generations.


Or the Undiscovered Country for that matter.

Enterprise takes a beating in that one too

/like a photon torpedo completely through the forward dish section
 
2013-02-04 09:36:57 AM  

bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok


Maurice Picard
 
2013-02-04 09:39:59 AM  

amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard


Thomas Riker
 
2013-02-04 09:40:21 AM  

some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.


Ricardo Montalbán's chest concurs.
 
2013-02-04 09:40:47 AM  
What I find most interesting from the opening scene is that with those Union Flags flying, some version of the UK must still exist. ST: Enterprise certainly established that its point in time the Royal Navy still existed, but TNG, DS9 and Voyager sort of imply that at least by their point in time there are no sovereign states on Earth. I don't recall if TOS said one way or the other.

It's something only a Trek nerd would notice or debate, but I found it interesting.
 
2013-02-04 09:40:47 AM  

amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard


Slar

/Amidoingitrite?
 
2013-02-04 09:43:15 AM  

PIP_the_TROLL: What I find most interesting from the opening scene is that with those Union Flags flying, some version of the UK must still exist. ST: Enterprise certainly established that its point in time the Royal Navy still existed, but TNG, DS9 and Voyager sort of imply that at least by their point in time there are no sovereign states on Earth. I don't recall if TOS said one way or the other.

It's something only a Trek nerd would notice or debate, but I found it interesting.


The Royal Navy still existed during Enterprise.  Although, that was pre-federation.
 
2013-02-04 09:45:59 AM  

Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.


Hard to say. We get just the crumbs in the trailer, and the original story in TOS was excellent. If, and that's a large leap of faith, if they can utilize the actors in this movies and emphasize the story backed up by the effects it could be even better than Wrath of Khan. A man who become god. That's a hell of a premise.
 
2013-02-04 09:51:32 AM  

Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.


Well how else are they going to showcase the next generation of developments in lense flare?
 
2013-02-04 09:52:00 AM  
I'm thinking it's a Star Trek: Generations ripoff.
 
2013-02-04 09:54:22 AM  

AntonChigger: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Slar

/Amidoingitrite?


Difficult was I wasn't even joking.  Sybok fits fairly well, and is a great way to troll the fanbase who all think it's Khan.

/not betting on it, but would be better than redoing the best ST film
 
2013-02-04 09:55:31 AM  

LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker


Vina
 
2013-02-04 09:57:56 AM  

PIP_the_TROLL: What I find most interesting from the opening scene is that with those Union Flags flying, some version of the UK must still exist. ST: Enterprise certainly established that its point in time the Royal Navy still existed, but TNG, DS9 and Voyager sort of imply that at least by their point in time there are no sovereign states on Earth. I don't recall if TOS said one way or the other.

It's something only a Trek nerd would notice or debate, but I found it interesting.


People in the Star Trek universe have always clung pretty tightly to their heritage though.  Look at all the walking ethnic stereotypes: Scotty, Chekov, Miles O'Brian, Keiko (whatever her last name was before she married O'Brian), the Irish chief engineer on the first season of TNG who way overdid it on that "everybody act drunk" episode, so they had to replace him with Geordi.
Even if there isn't really any actual sovereignty, people might just have those up for sybolism

/See also: Confederate flags in the USA.
 
2013-02-04 10:00:32 AM  
Robert Orci is a writer on it so the story will be lame and be nonsensical but it'll look pretty.
 
2013-02-04 10:03:02 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell


I was guessing another Gary: Gary Seven.
 
2013-02-04 10:09:40 AM  

Bith Set Me Up: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

I was guessing another Gary: Gary Seven.


He's Glengarry Glen Ross.  Raktajino is for closers.
 
2013-02-04 10:10:37 AM  

Bith Set Me Up: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

I was guessing another Gary: Gary Seven.


But Gary Seven wasn't better.  He was from the Copper Age and educated in the future.  The only thing that made him "better" was a sonic screwdri---er...supercharged pen.  And a giant computer in his office.
 
2013-02-04 10:12:27 AM  
Blond chick in this trailer is on the bridge in ST:09 FYI.
 
2013-02-04 10:12:59 AM  
Mitchell.
 
2013-02-04 10:14:29 AM  

serial_crusher: People in the Star Trek universe have always clung pretty tightly to their heritage though.


Except for the French who, despite still having their taste for fine wine, decided to start speaking with English accents.
 
2013-02-04 10:15:34 AM  

brigid_fitch: Bith Set Me Up: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

I was guessing another Gary: Gary Seven.

But Gary Seven wasn't better.  He was from the Copper Age and educated in the future.  The only thing that made him "better" was a sonic screwdri---er...supercharged pen.  And a giant computer in his office.


And a kooky secretary (fun fact: the actress playing her was annoyed by dirty Gene's ever-shortening of her miniskirt)
 
2013-02-04 10:17:19 AM  

brigid_fitch: Bith Set Me Up: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

I was guessing another Gary: Gary Seven.

But Gary Seven wasn't better.  He was from the Copper Age and educated in the future.  The only thing that made him "better" was a sonic screwdri---er...supercharged pen.  And a giant computer in his office.


To be fair, he also had 2 hot assistants:

Roberta Lincoln:

www.startrek.com

And Isis the cat lady:

images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-02-04 10:17:52 AM  

Clash City Farker: Mitchell.


"Who's the puffy guy who's a big blurry sex machine?"
 
2013-02-04 10:17:57 AM  

some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.


Maybe he's Garth of Izar
 
2013-02-04 10:21:25 AM  

This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: Mitchell.

"Who's the puffy guy who's a big blurry sex machine?"


Mitchell?
 
2013-02-04 10:22:55 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.

How would you suggest they show plot or character development in a less than minute long preview???


If the plot of a film cannot be summarized in less than two sentences, it's likely way too complicated.

Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.
 
2013-02-04 10:23:05 AM  

StrikitRich: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Maybe he's Garth of Izar


I would be up for this. He was repaired by aliens wasn't he; that could account for the superb jumping abilities maybe? However, I think Karl Urban let slip it was Mitchell in an interview, although granted that could be misdirection.

Of course, could be he's playing a Mooninite. I understand their vertical leap is beyond all measurement.
 
2013-02-04 10:26:09 AM  

Clash City Farker: This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: Mitchell.

"Who's the puffy guy who's a big blurry sex machine?"

Mitchell?


"That Mitchell is one fat-"
 
2013-02-04 10:29:33 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.

How would you suggest they show plot or character development in a less than minute long preview???


For your consideration.
 
2013-02-04 10:30:00 AM  

some_beer_drinker: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

yes. yes it is.


Yep, it pretty much has to be.

/and that is awesome!
 
2013-02-04 10:30:47 AM  

thornhill: Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.


To be fair, people already knew who Khan was, so you could say that and show him in the previews and it was fine.
In this case they have an incentive to not tell people whether/which TOS episode/movie this one is based on.  They want to keep the element of surprise around.

/ I wasn't really old enough to remember ads for any of the good star trek movies.  I remember First Contact was pretty much "look, it's got the TNG crew and the Borg, what more info do you need?" with no info about time travel or anything.  Then as far as I recall Insurrection was just "hey, here's another Star Trek movie.  Shut up and give us your money", along with Nemesis being "hey, here's the final Star Trek movie with the TNG cast.  So, you won't have to shut up and give us your money unless maybe we do a DS9 movie or a reboot."  And of course the reboot was just "hey, we're rebooting Star Trek, and the dude from Heroes is playing Spock.  so, give us your money as soon as you're done complaining on the Internet"

So, all I'm saying is this sort of ad is par for the course.
 
2013-02-04 10:34:09 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Vina


A pissed off Captain Proton
 
2013-02-04 10:34:15 AM  

This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: Mitchell.

"Who's the puffy guy who's a big blurry sex machine?"


Harry Mudd?
 
2013-02-04 10:34:43 AM  

This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: Mitchell.

"Who's the puffy guy who's a big blurry sex machine?"

Mitchell?

"That Mitchell is one fat-"


Shut yo mouth!
 
2013-02-04 10:34:50 AM  

serial_crusher: thornhill: Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.

To be fair, people already knew who Khan was, so you could say that and show him in the previews and it was fine.
In this case they have an incentive to not tell people whether/which TOS episode/movie this one is based on.  They want to keep the element of surprise around.

/ I wasn't really old enough to remember ads for any of the good star trek movies.  I remember First Contact was pretty much "look, it's got the TNG crew and the Borg, what more info do you need?" with no info about time travel or anything.  Then as far as I recall Insurrection was just "hey, here's another Star Trek movie.  Shut up and give us your money", along with Nemesis being "hey, here's the final Star Trek movie with the TNG cast.  So, you won't have to shut up and give us your money unless maybe we do a DS9 movie or a reboot."  And of course the reboot was just "hey, we're rebooting Star Trek, and the dude from Heroes is playing Spock.  so, give us your money as soon as you're done complaining on the Internet"

So, all I'm saying is this sort of ad is par for the course.


You sound like alot of fun at parties.
 
2013-02-04 10:35:20 AM  

PIP_the_TROLL: What I find most interesting from the opening scene is that with those Union Flags flying, some version of the UK must still exist. ST: Enterprise certainly established that its point in time the Royal Navy still existed, but TNG, DS9 and Voyager sort of imply that at least by their point in time there are no sovereign states on Earth. I don't recall if TOS said one way or the other.

It's something only a Trek nerd would notice or debate, but I found it interesting.


According to the TNG episode "The Long Ladder," the European Hegemony was created in 2123, so the UK might have ended in 2123, but considering how the UK isn't much of a fan of continental Europe or the EU, I wouldn't be surprised if the UK, even in 2123, were bucking the trend.
In TNG episode "Attached," the United Earth Government got all the holdouts to join in 2150.  So by 2150, there were no nation states.
And if you go by the ST:Enterprise timeline, Enterprise started their voyage in 2151.  So this mention of the Royal Navy still existing might be an error or someone with Brit heritage being "bloody insular."
 
2013-02-04 10:36:01 AM  
He could end up being Q, or some outcast/renegade or half-breed Q.
 
2013-02-04 10:36:21 AM  

serial_crusher: thornhill: Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.

To be fair, people already knew who Khan was, so you could say that and show him in the previews and it was fine.
In this case they have an incentive to not tell people whether/which TOS episode/movie this one is based on.  They want to keep the element of surprise around.

So, all I'm saying is this sort of ad is par for the course.


Notice that I didn't use Kahn's name in my description. You can communicate the plot of the film without referencing him. The fact that Kahn is the villan is icing on the cake for fans -- enjoyment of the movie is not dependent on having seen TOS.
 
2013-02-04 10:37:36 AM  

thornhill: That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.


Good. I'm sick of trailers that tell me the entire movie in 2 minutes. Maybe that's what you like, so maybe that's why Hollywood does it. So thanks for nothing, asshole.
 
2013-02-04 10:37:57 AM  
Alice Eve playing Dr Carol Marcus.

More misdirection?
 
2013-02-04 10:39:47 AM  

eyeq360: According to the TNG episode "The Long Ladder," the European Hegemony was created in 2123, so the UK might have ended in 2123, but considering how the UK isn't much of a fan of continental Europe or the EU, I wouldn't be surprised if the UK, even in 2123, were bucking the trend.
In TNG episode "Attached," the United Earth Government got all the holdouts to join in 2150. So by 2150, there were no nation states.
And if you go by the ST:Enterprise timeline, Enterprise started their voyage in 2151. So this mention of the Royal Navy still existing might be an error or someone with Brit heritage being "bloody insular."


Or maybe Roddy was just a drunken, militant secular humanist whose ideology polluted TNG and its spin-offs, but other show-runners find it all but impossible to maintain.

I could see Earth having a central body like the UN for dealing with the Fed on their behalf - but a true central government? As long as people have doors and fences, borders will always exist. And when borders exists, countries exist.
 
2013-02-04 10:42:32 AM  

Clash City Farker: This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: Mitchell.

"Who's the puffy guy who's a big blurry sex machine?"

Mitchell?

"That Mitchell is one fat-"

Shut yo mouth!


Jus' talkin' 'bout Mitchell!
 
2013-02-04 10:43:02 AM  
Its pretty obvious who the villain is. This is the second movie. Who was the villain in the second TOS episode?

The blonde chick with the haircut is a dead giveaway. They look exactly alike.
 
2013-02-04 10:46:35 AM  
Theres a shot of a guy in a space suit in the middle of a lava field.....did they travel to Mustafar or is that the Genesis Device converting the planet?
 
2013-02-04 10:47:46 AM  
It can't be Gary Mitchell because the comic series is overseen by the same people that are in charge of the movie, and the comics have already done Gary Mitchell in the new timeline. The Countdown to Darkness series is considered an official movie prequel, after all. They're not going to do it again.
 
2013-02-04 10:49:40 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: OtherLittleGuy: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Vina

A pissed off Captain Proton


Check me: Robert April.
 
2013-02-04 10:52:00 AM  

Confabulat: thornhill: That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.

Good. I'm sick of trailers that tell me the entire movie in 2 minutes. Maybe that's what you like, so maybe that's why Hollywood does it. So thanks for nothing, asshole.


I rather make my decision about which movie I want to see with a generally understanding of the plot rather than seeing a collection of the money shots.

In fact, I think there is no bigger let down than a trailer which shows you the best money shots, setting unrealistic expectations about the rest of the film.
 
2013-02-04 10:55:05 AM  
It's Apollo; he figured out how to minaturize his power generator and wants to return to Earth to punish all the unbelievers for the folly of their ways.

/either him or Mitchell
 
2013-02-04 10:56:42 AM  
Harry Mudd was captured by Nero as a child and tortured for decades until he went insane.
 
2013-02-04 10:59:36 AM  
Spider-Man still has more farks to give about this than I do. Wake me up when we get back to real Star Trekkin' and not JJ showing off just how much smart he is.
 
2013-02-04 11:01:58 AM  
It's Trelane, from "The Squire of Gothos".
 
2013-02-04 11:07:45 AM  

The Crepes of Wrath: It's Trelane, from "The Squire of Gothos".


The pipe organ in the back of his cell gives it away.
 
2013-02-04 11:10:20 AM  

Giltric: Theres a shot of a guy in a space suit in the middle of a lava field.....did they travel to Mustafar or is that the Genesis Device converting the planet?


That guy is spock.  When I went to see The Hobbit at the cinema I was treated to a 10 minute, uninterrupted clip from Star Trek.

Spolier alert!


The Enterprise had gone to some planet with a primitive culture where a volcanic eruption was imminent   Spock was attempting to use a device to prevent the volcanic eruption in order to save the primitive culture from destruction.  And yes, the prime directive was mentioned since they were heavily interfering.
 
2013-02-04 11:11:55 AM  

The sound of one hand clapping: Giltric: Theres a shot of a guy in a space suit in the middle of a lava field.....did they travel to Mustafar or is that the Genesis Device converting the planet?

That guy is spock.  When I went to see The Hobbit at the cinema I was treated to a 10 minute, uninterrupted clip from Star Trek.

Spolier alert!


The Enterprise had gone to some planet with a primitive culture where a volcanic eruption was imminent   Spock was attempting to use a device to prevent the volcanic eruption in order to save the primitive culture from destruction.  And yes, the prime directive was mentioned since they were heavily interfering.


Wasn't that a Voyager episode?
 
2013-02-04 11:18:00 AM  

thornhill: Notice that I didn't use Kahn's name in my description. You can communicate the plot of the film without referencing him. The fact that Kahn is the villan is icing on the cake for fans -- enjoyment of the movie is not dependent on having seen TOS.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-04 11:30:03 AM  
Here is my guess: Benedict Cumberbatch is playing a Klingon.  This movie is about Klingons.  Remember in the original series they looked like Humans and in at least one case they infiltrated the Federation.

And "Trials and Tribble-ations" showed that human looking Klingon's did indeed exist in TNG and DS9 continuity.
 
2013-02-04 11:34:05 AM  

bhcompy: The Enterprise had gone to some planet with a primitive culture where a volcanic eruption was imminent Spock was attempting to use a device to prevent the volcanic eruption in order to save the primitive culture from destruction. And yes, the prime directive was mentioned since they were heavily interfering.

Wasn't that a Voyager episode?


There was a TNG episode with a young Nikki Cox, the girl from the show with the stuffed rabbit and "Las Vegas" who got a really bad boob job. So her planet was about to be blown up by a volcano or something and Picard gave a long ass speech about "fark her and her people, Prime Directive!". That might be what you're thinking of.
 
2013-02-04 11:38:11 AM  

Blathering Idjut: Grand_Moff_Joseph: OtherLittleGuy: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Vina

A pissed off Captain Proton

Check me: Robert April.


Kracko!
 
2013-02-04 11:53:00 AM  

Jeremysbrain: And "Trials and Tribble-ations" showed that human looking Klingon's did indeed exist in TNG and DS9 continuity.


But Worf doesn't like to talk about that.
 
2013-02-04 11:53:03 AM  

Sergeant Angle: Blathering Idjut: Grand_Moff_Joseph: OtherLittleGuy: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Vina

A pissed off Captain Proton

Check me: Robert April.

Kracko!


media.tumblr.com

"The best defense is a good offense!"
 
2013-02-04 11:57:44 AM  
It's Benedict Cumberbatch...I'd be there even if this weren't a Star Trek film.  He's seriously one of the best actors in Hollywood right now.
 
2013-02-04 12:01:53 PM  

Mugato: bhcompy: The Enterprise had gone to some planet with a primitive culture where a volcanic eruption was imminent Spock was attempting to use a device to prevent the volcanic eruption in order to save the primitive culture from destruction. And yes, the prime directive was mentioned since they were heavily interfering.

Wasn't that a Voyager episode?

There was a TNG episode with a young Nikki Cox, the girl from the show with the stuffed rabbit and "Las Vegas" who got a really bad boob job. So her planet was about to be blown up by a volcano or something and Picard gave a long ass speech about "fark her and her people, Prime Directive!". That might be what you're thinking of.


Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the eps where Brad Dourif saved the ship while the crew was stuck on a planet with primatives while a volcano started to erupt
 
2013-02-04 12:04:49 PM  

Sergeant Angle: Blathering Idjut: Grand_Moff_Joseph: OtherLittleGuy: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Vina

A pissed off Captain Proton

Check me: Robert April.

Kracko!


Rick Berman.
 
2013-02-04 12:08:18 PM  

Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.


This has been my exact worry, but I try and remember that the trailers are created by the marketing department.  They focus on what they think will get people in the seats,and that's action and explosions.
 
2013-02-04 12:13:57 PM  
My theory on the Enterprise being trashed. This could be spoilers, I don't know because I am making it up as I go...

Kirk takes the Enterprise a little too close to the Volcano to rescue Spock. Volcano goes boom and farks up the ship. Scotty works a few miracles and is able to get the ship (with Spock) out of there but the damage is done. Admiral Pike biatch slaps Kirk for being so reckless and takes the Enterprise away from him. Kirk and Co. now have to kick the bad guys ass without the Enterprise which is in the orbital body shop.  Kirk saves the day and the Enterprise with a little bondo and a new paint job is given bake to Jim Boy.

Now in related trailer news, people should check out the Extensive Iron Man 3 trailer, it is so Tony Stark!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEH05OYX0CA
 
2013-02-04 12:22:49 PM  

imontheinternet: Bith Set Me Up: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

I was guessing another Gary: Gary Seven.

He's Glengarry Glen Ross.  Raktajino is for closers.


Go to lunch, Khan.  Will you go to lunch?
 
2013-02-04 12:37:43 PM  
I'm still thinking he's Joaquin from Space Seed.  We have still not seen Peter Weller in any of the trailers, and he was reported to be playing the villain.  I'm still thinking mid-way through this movie we'll see Cumberbatch open a cryo-tube and Weller with a long ponytail and a good tan will hop out.  Then the s* will really hit the fan.
 
2013-02-04 12:49:47 PM  

Jeremysbrain: Here is my guess: Benedict Cumberbatch is playing a Klingon.  This movie is about Klingons.  Remember in the original series they looked like Humans and in at least one case they infiltrated the Federation.

And "Trials and Tribble-ations" showed that human looking Klingon's did indeed exist in TNG and DS9 continuity.


OOOr....maybe Benedict is playing a Tribble.  This *is* a reboot, after all.
 
2013-02-04 12:54:12 PM  

Bendimus_Prime: I'm still thinking he's Joaquin from Space Seed


Well in Wrath if Khan he was a blue eyed blonde, like all East Indians.
 
2013-02-04 01:15:18 PM  

Brick-House: My theory on the Enterprise being trashed. This could be spoilers, I don't know because I am making it up as I go...

Kirk takes the Enterprise a little too close to the Volcano to rescue Spock. Volcano goes boom and farks up the ship. Scotty works a few miracles and is able to get the ship (with Spock) out of there but the damage is done. Admiral Pike biatch slaps Kirk for being so reckless and takes the Enterprise away from him. Kirk and Co. now have to kick the bad guys ass without the Enterprise which is in the orbital body shop.  Kirk saves the day and the Enterprise with a little bondo and a new paint job is given bake to Jim Boy.

Now in related trailer news, people should check out the Extensive Iron Man 3 trailer, it is so Tony Stark!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEH05OYX0CA


Eh, I don't know. From the shot in the trailer the entire right nacelle looks to be broken and is almost above the center part of the engineering section. I would hope the Enterprise doesn't get destroyed since we've never really seen too much of the ship in action or even much of the inside. The trailer also clears up that ship crashing into the water...it is definitely not Enterprise based on what happened to the right nacelle.

I just hate how long they have been teasing this movie and how much longer is still to go.
 
2013-02-04 01:23:29 PM  
I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.
 
2013-02-04 01:24:16 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Jeremysbrain: Here is my guess: Benedict Cumberbatch is playing a Klingon.  This movie is about Klingons.  Remember in the original series they looked like Humans and in at least one case they infiltrated the Federation.

And "Trials and Tribble-ations" showed that human looking Klingon's did indeed exist in TNG and DS9 continuity.

OOOr....maybe Benedict is playing a Tribble.  This *is* a reboot, after all.


So a self-replicating Benedict Cumberbatch... thousands of him wandering the universe?

/that sound you hear is millions of women going *sploosh*
 
2013-02-04 01:29:49 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Jeremysbrain: Here is my guess: Benedict Cumberbatch is playing a Klingon.  This movie is about Klingons.  Remember in the original series they looked like Humans and in at least one case they infiltrated the Federation.

And "Trials and Tribble-ations" showed that human looking Klingon's did indeed exist in TNG and DS9 continuity.

OOOr....maybe Benedict is playing a Tribble.  This *is* a reboot, after all.


Maybe a Klingon/Tribble hybrid.  The self-hating Tribbles are the worst kind!

/ In "Trouble with Tribbles", they did mention that the Klingon was surgically altered to look human (because evidently shaving off the Fu Manchu wasn't enough), so it's irrelevant what normal Klingons look like in the Abramsverse.  They have the technology to make Klingon Cumberbatch look like an Andorian if they wanted.
// Anyhow, I'm betting any Klingons they bring up will look like TNG-and-onward.  For all we know Spock's computer had the cure to Klingon Flathead Disease so he released it early in the Abramsverse.
/// Tom Paris and B'elanna Torres's daughter's DNA, if you count Star Trek Online as canonical.
//// Not that spock would have known about it, since he went back in time before STO started.
 
2013-02-04 01:51:28 PM  

justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.


Hmmm...maybe it's Crewman Daniels, from the 29th century??

Or, maybe even a Section 31 agent?

/now that would be trolling the fans
 
2013-02-04 01:57:12 PM  

justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.


Well, Kirk did take a different path through the Academy in the Abramsverse, so maybe they never met.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Or, maybe even a Section 31 agent?


Maybe Q caused Crewman Daniels to quantum leap into Gary Mitchell's body, which ultimately led him to join Section 31 at the behest of Captain Braxton.  ok, now I just need an Animated Series reference and we've got ourselves a rock solid fanfic.
 
2013-02-04 02:01:20 PM  

serial_crusher: justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.

Well, Kirk did take a different path through the Academy in the Abramsverse, so maybe they never met.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Or, maybe even a Section 31 agent?

Maybe Q caused Crewman Daniels to quantum leap into Gary Mitchell's body, which ultimately led him to join Section 31 at the behest of Captain Braxton.  ok, now I just need an Animated Series reference and we've got ourselves a rock solid fanfic.


Since I'm not completely convinced that anyone involved with these new movies ever actually saw an episode of any of the Star Trek series, I doubt the plot of this one is going to be that "inside".
 
2013-02-04 02:11:16 PM  

LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker


Q Jr.
 
2013-02-04 02:19:17 PM  

thornhill: Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.


...problem is, you can use that description (replacing Captain Kirk for Captain Picard if necessary) to describe the plot of almost half of the Trek films (II, Generations, Nemesis, and New!Trek).  With at least two more, (TMP and IV), you can omit the "cunning adversary" part.
 
2013-02-04 02:25:21 PM  

IlGreven: ...problem is, you can use that description (replacing Captain Kirk for Captain Picard if necessary) to describe the plot of almost half of the Trek films


That or someone's out for revenge for something.
 
2013-02-04 02:26:36 PM  

IlGreven: thornhill: Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.

...problem is, you can use that description (replacing Captain Kirk for Captain Picard if necessary) to describe the plot of almost half of the Trek films (II, Generations, Nemesis, and New!Trek).  With at least two more, (TMP and IV), you can omit the "cunning adversary" part.


I would hardly describe Shinzon, a villain who required Picard's blood in a very short period of time yet allowed the Enterprise to wait sixteen hours before even acknowledging its presence, as "cunning".
 
2013-02-04 02:37:19 PM  
Methuselah.

In the 9 minute piece that I shelled out $17 to see you have a child that appears to be dying, Cucumber says he can save the child. The child might be rapidly aging, which would make Methuselah's ability to not age useful.

He might not have run off to his own private Forbidden Planet yet, so he's meddling with the course of history - which is, really, what all terrorists are trying to do. He thinks he sees some tragic cycle of history unfolding again - perhaps the Federation to him looks like Roman Empire 2.0 - and he's going to put a stop to it.

Go through a list of TOS episodes, and there aren't that many villains who appear human.  Then take out the ones who Kirk would recognize such as Garth or Finnegan, or the ones who would make no sense such as Kodos or Charlie Evans, and the ones who were comedic like Mudd and Trelane, and you end up with a pretty short list. Basically Kahn, Gary Seven (not really a villain, and the whole thing was a backdoor pilot), Dr. Sevrin (that would be an epic troll), or Methuselah.
 
2013-02-04 02:39:22 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.

How would you suggest they show plot or character development in a less than minute long preview???


The trailer to Dead Island comes to mind. Or even the Man of Steel trailer. Done well, it's possible.
 
2013-02-04 02:43:48 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.

Hmmm...maybe it's Crewman Daniels, from the 29th century??

Or, maybe even a Section 31 agent?

/now that would be trolling the fans


I for one am disappointed that Section 31 didn't resonate more with the series.  There were hints to it in Enterprise, and I thought William Sadler as Agent Sloan was deliciously evil and mysterious.  It was yet another "needed" chink in Roddenberry's future utopia, that at some level a shadow agency would be needed to keep the visage of the Federation as idyllic and superior clean.

I know that Pocket Books did a series based around the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, and they did a 4-novel Section 31 mini-series (which was good), but I'd love to see some more espionage, intrigue and subversive tones to a Section 31 series.  I always pictured that Mackenzie Calhoun was a semi-active Section 31 agent, since he was doing secret black ops work for Admiral Nechayev for years while he was in Starfleet.

/Yes, I brought up Peter David's New Frontier series yet again
//No, I'm not sorry, because it farking rocks and would have made a good tv series, live or animated
///A clash between Gary 7's agency, Section 31 and Daniel's Temporal "Preservation" Agency would be a cool story.
 
2013-02-04 02:44:14 PM  

x23: AiryAnne: FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

I guess he never saw Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, or Generations.

wasn't looking too hot by the end of Nemesis either. huge portions of the saucer section missing and all.


I'd forgotten about Nemesis.  Thanks for the reminder, jerk!
/jk
 
2013-02-04 02:50:28 PM  
A Star Trek movie on earth. Yay!

/double dumbass on you, too!
 
2013-02-04 02:51:22 PM  

StrikitRich: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Maybe he's Garth of Izar


I keep hoping for this.  But who knows?  For all we know he's someone we've never even heard of who survived the fleet massacre at Vulcan, got magic black hole powers, and now wants revenge for the loss of his crew.  Although that would be stupid.  So hopefully Garth or Mitchell.
 
2013-02-04 02:51:54 PM  
I wonder who Kirk will have to insult and get punched by in order to command the ship in this movie.

Maybe he can go talk shiat about some Admiral's mother and get decked. Cut to next scene where he's getting his admiral braids.
 
2013-02-04 02:58:34 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: A Star Trek movie on earth. Yay!

/double dumbass on you, too!


The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.
 
2013-02-04 03:05:05 PM  

salvador.hardin: The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.


And partially because they went for the Beastemaster/Masters of the Universe "We're not spending any money on this one so it's going to be set on Earth in the present" route.
 
2013-02-04 03:11:12 PM  
I only listened to the preview during the superbowl but I swear the villain sounded exactly like Jean Luc Picard.  Watching the preview here still makes me think it's a voice-over.  Am I the only one?
 
2013-02-04 03:23:19 PM  

salvador.hardin: Mike Chewbacca: A Star Trek movie on earth. Yay!

/double dumbass on you, too!

The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.


TRIPLE dumbass on you, too!
 
2013-02-04 03:25:30 PM  

Beeblebrox: I only listened to the preview during the superbowl but I swear the villain sounded exactly like Jean Luc Picard.  Watching the preview here still makes me think it's a voice-over.  Am I the only one?


cumberbatch has a very cool voice, it was him doing the voiceover.
 
2013-02-04 03:30:15 PM  

Mugato: salvador.hardin: The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.

And partially because they went for the Beastemaster/Masters of the Universe "We're not spending any money on this one so it's going to be set on Earth in the present" route.


Actually the budget was double that of Wrath of Khan (though that's more because II and III were made on a shoestring). Location shooting in San Francisco can be expensive.  Anyway, I was talking gross, not net. IV was the highest grossing until Trek '09. First Contact, which was the highest grossing of the TNG movies took place mostly on Earth too.

Anyway, as a fan I share the sentiment that setting a Trek movie on Earth is stupid. It is a wasted opportunity and takes away from the themes of exploration and dealing with the unknown. I wasn't trying to argue that point, just confine the scope of the stupidity.

Financially speaking, setting Star Trek on Earth is a sound strategy.
 
2013-02-04 03:33:14 PM  

Bendal: It's Apollo; he figured out how to minaturize his power generator and wants to return to Earth to punish all the unbelievers for the folly of their ways.

/either him or Mitchell


now that's funny. very good sir.
 
2013-02-04 03:43:13 PM  
justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.

that's a good point. now im not sure either.

i doubt it's Methuselah. way too obscure, even for JJ
 
2013-02-04 03:45:04 PM  
How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?
 
2013-02-04 03:47:42 PM  

Giltric: How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


I think it was a privately funded project by Data's creator's ancestor.
 
2013-02-04 04:09:50 PM  

Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?



The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.
 
2013-02-04 04:12:10 PM  

salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution

that I know of to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.


Fixed to avoid crucifiction at the hands of more knowledgeable trekies.
 
2013-02-04 04:17:37 PM  

th0th: Grand_Moff_Joseph: justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.

Hmmm...maybe it's Crewman Daniels, from the 29th century??

Or, maybe even a Section 31 agent?

/now that would be trolling the fans

I for one am disappointed that Section 31 didn't resonate more with the series.  There were hints to it in Enterprise, and I thought William Sadler as Agent Sloan was deliciously evil and mysterious.  It was yet another "needed" chink in Roddenberry's future utopia, that at some level a shadow agency would be needed to keep the visage of the Federation as idyllic and superior clean.

I know that Pocket Books did a series based around the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, and they did a 4-novel Section 31 mini-series (which was good), but I'd love to see some more espionage, intrigue and subversive tones to a Section 31 series.  I always pictured that Mackenzie Calhoun was a semi-active Section 31 agent, since he was doing secret black ops work for Admiral Nechayev for years while he was in Starfleet.

/Yes, I brought up Peter David's New Frontier series yet again
//No, I'm not sorry, because it farking rocks and would have made a good tv series, live or animated
///A clash between Gary 7's agency, Section 31 and Daniel's Temporal "Preservation" Agency would be a cool story.


Intriguing!  Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.
 
2013-02-04 04:18:23 PM  

salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.


That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?
 
2013-02-04 04:24:17 PM  

imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.

That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?


That's a good point, but one that falls under the umbrella of "it's sci-fi - just go with it"  :)
 
2013-02-04 04:40:36 PM  

imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.

That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?


Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.
 
2013-02-04 04:59:22 PM  

salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.


So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.
 
2013-02-04 05:02:27 PM  
Grand_Moff_Joseph:
Intriguing!  Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.

When I first read this, I had the weirdest boner. But on reflection of the erection, I realized why I hate time travel stories - too easy to hit the reset button.  That year of hell? Never happened. Bleh.

OTOH, it is possible to do an old trope in a new way, for example letting Riker's double live.
 
2013-02-04 05:02:47 PM  

imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.

So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.


I guess I need to wonder if Julian Bashir had to agree to chemical sterilization, since he was genetically modified (or at least one of the few who weren't batshiat crazy).  At the end of the series he and Ezri were getting it on, so I wonder if we'll be looking at some human/Trill hybrid Übermensch in a later novel.
 
2013-02-04 05:04:09 PM  
imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.
 
2013-02-04 05:08:40 PM  

MisterRonbo: Grand_Moff_Joseph:
Intriguing! Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.

When I first read this, I had the weirdest boner. But on reflection of the erection, I realized why I hate time travel stories - too easy to hit the reset button. That year of hell? Never happened. Bleh.


I never got the time cop thing. If there were really cops preventing time travel violations, there'd be no time travel stories in Star Trek.
 
2013-02-04 05:09:02 PM  

th0th: imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.

So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.

I guess I need to wonder if Julian Bashir had to agree to chemical sterilization, since he was genetically modified (or at least one of the few who weren't batshiat crazy).  At the end of the series he and Ezri were getting it on, so I wonder if we'll be looking at some human/Trill hybrid Übermensch in a later novel.


I had always been under the impression that Eugenics weren't about genetic modifications but rather, selective breeding. One could make a clear argument that genetically modified people weren't even human. But selectively bred people are as human as anyone else -- they merely possess only what we consider "good" traits.
 
2013-02-04 05:12:01 PM  

MisterRonbo: imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.


I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).

You'd figure the dude who could get in and out without needing lube would be much better off spreading his DNA.

/insert racist joke:
//look at China
 
2013-02-04 05:40:52 PM  

imgod2u: That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?


While they weren't 100% accurate, the Nazis did a decent enough job of identifying and killing jews.  I imagine a similar holocaust, with worldwide public support, would have done a decent job of killing off any supers Khan left behind.  And if they were scattered and breeding among the normal population, their descendents would be watered down with each passing generation, so eventually you wouldn't care.

/ Yes, I just Godwinned a Star Trek thread.
 
2013-02-04 05:46:01 PM  

imgod2u: I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).


I always figured that worked up until people started wearing enough clothing that penis size stopped being noticeable.  (Insert racist joke about Africans wearing less clothing than Europeans because of the climate, and that leading to certain stereotypes).  A sought-after woman is going to judge two potential suitors by whatever means she can.
Eventually there's a "too big" point, but would a monogamous culture make that irrelevant?  If she can't have sex until she's married, and it turns out she doesn't like it... well, too bad for her.
 
2013-02-04 05:46:11 PM  

imgod2u: MisterRonbo: imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.

I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).

You'd figure the dude who could get in and out without needing lube would be much better off spreading his DNA.

/insert racist joke:
//look at China


Small Penis
Cum Quick -- Cum Often

That'll attract the ladies.
 
2013-02-04 05:52:23 PM  

Brick-House: imgod2u: MisterRonbo: imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.

I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).

You'd figure the dude who could get in and out without needing lube would be much better off spreading his DNA.

/insert racist joke:
//look at China

Small Penis
Cum Quick -- Cum Often

That'll attract the ladies.


Has penis size been a point of attraction amongst women in any culture in history? From the sociological studies I've seen, it's really more of a thing amongst guys and even then, it's more of a recent western thing.
 
2013-02-04 05:54:06 PM  

MisterRonbo: Grand_Moff_Joseph:
Intriguing!  Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.

When I first read this, I had the weirdest boner. But on reflection of the erection, I realized why I hate time travel stories - too easy to hit the reset button.  That year of hell? Never happened. Bleh.

OTOH, it is possible to do an old trope in a new way, for example letting Riker's double live.


Exactly.  Done right, this could be epic.  Personally, I would hire Michael A Martin to write the screenplay - his ST novels are usually fantastic.
 
2013-02-04 05:56:09 PM  

IlGreven: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Q Jr.


Sybok???  All this time I thought his time was Sidewalk!!

Ohhhh... now I feel like an idiot.

/not really knew it was Sybok all along.
 
2013-02-04 05:57:15 PM  

justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.


Kirk and Mitchell were friends at the Academy in TOS, but were they friends at the Academy in the Abramsverse?
 
2013-02-04 05:58:55 PM  

serial_crusher: imgod2u: That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

While they weren't 100% accurate, the Nazis did a decent enough job of identifying and killing jews.  I imagine a similar holocaust, with worldwide public support, would have done a decent job of killing off any supers Khan left behind.  And if they were scattered and breeding among the normal population, their descendents would be watered down with each passing generation, so eventually you wouldn't care.

/ Yes, I just Godwinned a Star Trek thread.


I would think the Eugenics war era earth would be similar to post-invasion Germany more than it would resemble Nazi-ruled Germany in that it'd be much more chaotic with far less infrastructure and troop control. Add to that the fact that it's much more difficult to scour the whole planet for Kahns than scour a relatively small country like Germany -- and western europe as a whole really -- and you can see the problem there.

I could totally see a subplot where they find a hidden settlement of Eugenically enhanced people living on Earth and evading detection this whole time.
 
2013-02-04 06:16:30 PM  

imgod2u: serial_crusher: imgod2u: That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

While they weren't 100% accurate, the Nazis did a decent enough job of identifying and killing jews.  I imagine a similar holocaust, with worldwide public support, would have done a decent job of killing off any supers Khan left behind.  And if they were scattered and breeding among the normal population, their descendents would be watered down with each passing generation, so eventually you wouldn't care.

/ Yes, I just Godwinned a Star Trek thread.

I would think the Eugenics war era earth would be similar to post-invasion Germany more than it would resemble Nazi-ruled Germany in that it'd be much more chaotic with far less infrastructure and troop control. Add to that the fact that it's much more difficult to scour the whole planet for Kahns than scour a relatively small country like Germany -- and western europe as a whole really -- and you can see the problem there.

I could totally see a subplot where they find a hidden settlement of Eugenically enhanced people living on Earth and evading detection this whole time.


1) Sure, Germany was in chaotic shambles after WWII, but wasn't it also like that after WWI, which helped the Nazis rise to power in the first place?  Maybe after Khan took off, and some remaining mutants stuck around to try and live in hiding, a few years went by before a new Hitler showed up and blamed everything on those remaining mutants.
2) I'm not sure we have enough info to really think there was a big war that left everything in shambles.  Khan scared the crap out of everybody, but it could have just been one single Doomsday plan that went wrong because of a critical flaw.  The normals just barely stopped it so that gave them the incentive to kill the rest of the mutants.
3) I like the idea of the hidden settlement though.  Could have a whole "what do we do with them now" episode, kind of like we had with Dr Bashir except less arrogant.  It would work well in my Star Trek/Law & Order crossover idea....
Maybe Section 31 finds out about them and uses them as an elite black ops squad in return for protection.
 
2013-02-04 07:45:46 PM  

Clash City Farker: The blonde chick with the haircut is a dead giveaway. They look exactly alike.


That's Carol Marcus.
 
2013-02-04 07:55:57 PM  

imgod2u: th0th: imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.

So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.

I guess I need to wonder if Julian Bashir had to agree to chemical sterilization, since he was genetically modified (or at least one of the few who weren't batshiat crazy).  At the end of the series he and Ezri were getting it on, so I wonder if we'll be looking at some human/Trill hybrid Übermensch in a later novel.

I had always been under the impression that Eugenics weren't about genetic modifications but rather, selective breeding. One could make a clear argument that genetically modified people weren't even human. But selectively bred people are as human as anyone else -- they merely possess only what we consider "good" traits.


Historically, yes, eugenics was selective breeding, or more specifically, preventing the "weaker" individuals from breeding (what counts as "weaker" is, of course, ill-defined).  That being said, selective breeding was the closest thing to genetic engineering available when the term was coined, so I think it's reasonable to assume that scientists in Star Trek's late 20th century would resort to more advanced technologies.

Heck, the storyline pretty much demands genetic engineering well beyond selective breeding (perhaps even beyond modern science), since the history of the world in "Star Trek" is pretty much identical to the real world up until about the 1970's, and the Eugenics Wars started in 1992--less than two generations later.  There's just no way to create a race of supermen via selective breeding in just one generation.
 
2013-02-04 08:01:45 PM  

Mentat: That's Carol Marcus


Carol Marcus is a fine choice as a Kirk love interest, by the way. All we really know about her is from Wrath of Khan, but we know she bore Kirk's son and they were serious enough that she had to decide between him and his swashbuckling ways or a serious life in science. It's a completely unexplored Kirk backstory and it's canon. It's an obvious choice.
 
2013-02-04 08:11:28 PM  

anfrind: Heck, the storyline pretty much demands genetic engineering well beyond selective breeding (perhaps even beyond modern science), since the history of the world in "Star Trek" is pretty much identical to the real world up until about the 1970's, and the Eugenics Wars started in 1992--less than two generations later. There's just no way to create a race of supermen via selective breeding in just one generation.


Yeah, the "augmnets" (Khan, Dr. Basir, etc) were genetically enhanced. It was a lot more than selective breeding.
 
2013-02-04 09:49:52 PM  
Here's my theory:

Some random Starfleet ship finds the SS Botany Bay adrift in deep space, and brings it (or at least its occupants) back to Earth. The Federation keeps them all in animated suspension while they debate what to do with them. Unbeknownst to Starfleet, a small cadre of Eugenics supermen have been quietly living on Earth since the Eugenics Wars, integrated into society and even Starfleet ranks. When the news of the Botany Bay recovery spreads, the Cumberbatch character (named "John Harrison") jumps into action to spring his bretheren from Starfleet control. Harrison finally achieves his goal, opening one of the stasis chambers to reveal Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh.

So I'm predicting not a total rehash of known Star Trek canon, but a reimagining of the Eugenics backstory. After all, if JJ can destroy Vulcan, why not re-engineer this too?
 
2013-02-04 09:53:00 PM  

The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh


Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?
 
2013-02-04 11:06:19 PM  

serial_crusher: The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh

Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?


Hmmm after reading about him on Memory Alpha maybe his character makes Khan and starts the whole eugenics thing in an attempt to make super humans and rid the galaxy of aliens.
 
2013-02-04 11:15:38 PM  

Giltric: serial_crusher: The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh

Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?

Hmmm after reading about him on Memory Alpha maybe his character makes Khan and starts the whole eugenics thing in an attempt to make super humans and rid the galaxy of aliens.


Except no.
Khan was actually mentioned already in Enterprise. In the 4th season when Archer was trying to track down Soong's augments one of the augments mentions that Khan and the Botany Bay are already drifting somewhere out in space.
 
2013-02-04 11:27:25 PM  

This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: This Face Left Blank: Clash City Farker: Mitchell.

"Who's the puffy guy who's a big blurry sex machine?"

Mitchell?

"That Mitchell is one fat-"

Shut yo mouth!

Jus' talkin' 'bout Mitchell!


publius.mu.nu
 
2013-02-05 12:32:04 AM  
Brick-House:

Small Penis
Cum Quick -- Cum Often

That'll attract the ladies.


You just keep tellin' yourself that, champ.
 
2013-02-05 12:54:24 AM  

rickycal78: Giltric: serial_crusher: The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh

Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?

Hmmm after reading about him on Memory Alpha maybe his character makes Khan and starts the whole eugenics thing in an attempt to make super humans and rid the galaxy of aliens.

Except no.
Khan was actually mentioned already in Enterprise. In the 4th season when Archer was trying to track down Soong's augments one of the augments mentions that Khan and the Botany Bay are already drifting somewhere out in space.


Is that canon in the JJverse?
 
2013-02-05 01:13:01 AM  

Giltric: Khan was actually mentioned already in Enterprise. In the 4th season when Archer was trying to track down Soong's augments one of the augments mentions that Khan and the Botany Bay are already drifting somewhere out in space.

Is that canon in the JJverse?


Since it's long before the events in the last film, before the two universes diverged, it would have to be.
 
2013-02-05 01:15:48 AM  

Giltric: rickycal78: Giltric: serial_crusher: The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh

Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?

Hmmm after reading about him on Memory Alpha maybe his character makes Khan and starts the whole eugenics thing in an attempt to make super humans and rid the galaxy of aliens.

Except no.
Khan was actually mentioned already in Enterprise. In the 4th season when Archer was trying to track down Soong's augments one of the augments mentions that Khan and the Botany Bay are already drifting somewhere out in space.

Is that canon in the JJverse?


Dunno. JJverse as you called it diverges from regular ST verse starting with Nero hopping to the past I would think. Granted for all we know JJverse could have had slightly different beginnings before that. Still, Weller's character in Enterprise never seemed the sort to start the Eugenics wars, he was just xenophobic.
 
2013-02-05 01:18:56 AM  

Mugato: Giltric: Khan was actually mentioned already in Enterprise. In the 4th season when Archer was trying to track down Soong's augments one of the augments mentions that Khan and the Botany Bay are already drifting somewhere out in space.

Is that canon in the JJverse?

Since it's long before the events in the last film, before the two universes diverged, it would have to be.



It is very funny because when you get into what is known- they had blueprints that they sold, but a lot of it is hypothesis, like made up. ... The show itself made mistakes. The idea that there is a canon of Trek and what is honest to goodness Trek and what you can't change - The show itself changed history and revised things a lot. So clearly the approach was we want to make this thing feel real.   http://trekmovie.com/2008/09/19/abrams-talks-challenge-of-keeping-star -trek-from-turning-into-parody/">http://trekmovie.com/2008/09/19/abra ms-talks-challenge-of-keeping-star -trek-from-turning-into-parody/


/shrug
 
2013-02-05 01:33:37 AM  

rickycal78: Giltric: rickycal78: Giltric: serial_crusher: The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh

Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?

Hmmm after reading about him on Memory Alpha maybe his character makes Khan and starts the whole eugenics thing in an attempt to make super humans and rid the galaxy of aliens.

Except no.
Khan was actually mentioned already in Enterprise. In the 4th season when Archer was trying to track down Soong's augments one of the augments mentions that Khan and the Botany Bay are already drifting somewhere out in space.

Is that canon in the JJverse?

Dunno. JJverse as you called it diverges from regular ST verse starting with Nero hopping to the past I would think. Granted for all we know JJverse could have had slightly different beginnings before that. Still, Weller's character in Enterprise never seemed the sort to start the Eugenics wars, he was just xenophobic.


Everything before Nero's incursion should be the same in both Trek universes. The 2009 film made a point of name-dropping the beagle-loving Admiral Archer to make this clear. But the so-called Prime (original) Trek universe is full of paradoxes, in particular Star Trek: Enterprise being itself, a timeline that must have been affected by the time travel in Star Trek: First Contact.
 
2013-02-05 01:35:54 AM  

Nem Wan: The 2009 film made a point of name-dropping the beagle-loving Admiral Archer


Which is weird since Enterprise took place about 100 years before Kirk/Spock.
 
2013-02-05 08:06:48 AM  

Nem Wan: But the so-called Prime (original) Trek universe is full of paradoxes, in particular Star Trek: Enterprise being itself, a timeline that must have been affected by the time travel in Star Trek: First Contact.


I still choose to believe it was Riker playing a not-so-historically-accurate holodeck game the whole time.

But yeah, there was even an episode with some of the Borg from First Contact.  Thing about time travel in the trek universe is that it works differently depending on the particular technology used to deploy it.  When the Borg briefly took over Earth, they didn't create an alternate universe where they controlled it.  They changed the existing universe.  That's why the Enterprise--since it was caught in the temporal wake--saw things change around them.  So, the Enterprise universe was still the same one as the other Treks.  First contact was one of those predestination paradoxes.
 
2013-02-05 09:53:50 AM  
What I don't get about the time travel narrative crutch Trek uses so much is why Spock 1.0 didn't do the slingshot around the sun thing they did in Star Trek: Greenpeace to save Vulcan. I realize it's probably unethical to go back in time to change every little bad thing that happens, Marlon Brando told Superman that. But this is Vulcan, a planet at least as important as Earth and since its destruction was a direct result of someone else farking with the time line, Spock would have had a better ethical leg to stand on than they did in Star Trek: Save the Whales.
 
2013-02-05 10:18:02 AM  

Mugato: What I don't get about the time travel narrative crutch Trek uses so much is why Spock 1.0 didn't do the slingshot around the sun thing they did in Star Trek: Greenpeace to save Vulcan. I realize it's probably unethical to go back in time to change every little bad thing that happens, Marlon Brando told Superman that. But this is Vulcan, a planet at least as important as Earth and since its destruction was a direct result of someone else farking with the time line, Spock would have had a better ethical leg to stand on than they did in Star Trek: Save the Whales.


Not necessarily. From what I recall, Starfleet/Federation headquarters was on Earth, so I'd say Earth held a slight advantage. Plus he already had a previous version of himself in that timeline. Would he really be able to go back again and make it so there'd be a Spock 1.2? Two versions of Spock prime and one of his younger self?
 
2013-02-05 10:55:27 AM  

rickycal78: Not necessarily. From what I recall, Starfleet/Federation headquarters was on Earth, so I'd say Earth held a slight advantage. Plus he already had a previous version of himself in that timeline. Would he really be able to go back again and make it so there'd be a Spock 1.2? Two versions of Spock prime and one of his younger self?


I don't think Spock agreed to do the time travel thing to save Earth because it was the HQ of the Federation. They did it to save Earth. As for multiple Spocks bumping into themselves, that could have been an issue. I just think if they insist on using time travel so much the issue should have been at least brought up, even if it would be shot down by some sort of logic.

I think the answer is that JJ and Bob Orci don't know dick about Star Trek and write their stuff based on the Star Trek Saga Cliff Notes someone gave them.
 
2013-02-05 11:10:24 AM  

rickycal78: Mugato: What I don't get about the time travel narrative crutch Trek uses so much is why Spock 1.0 didn't do the slingshot around the sun thing they did in Star Trek: Greenpeace to save Vulcan. I realize it's probably unethical to go back in time to change every little bad thing that happens, Marlon Brando told Superman that. But this is Vulcan, a planet at least as important as Earth and since its destruction was a direct result of someone else farking with the time line, Spock would have had a better ethical leg to stand on than they did in Star Trek: Save the Whales.

Not necessarily. From what I recall, Starfleet/Federation headquarters was on Earth, so I'd say Earth held a slight advantage. Plus he already had a previous version of himself in that timeline. Would he really be able to go back again and make it so there'd be a Spock 1.2? Two versions of Spock prime and one of his younger self?


Well, Free Willy only happened because Kirk 1.0 was involved.  I don't think Spock would have concocted that whale heist on his own.  On top of it being unethical, they were ordered not to.  Kirk doesn't give many farks about either ethics or orders.
Missing whales would be considerably less damaging to the timeline than resurrecting a planet.  If not for Kirk &co, those Russian whalers would have killed the whales and been on their merry way.

Also, I think the ethics go differently with the different kinds of time travel involved.  Falling into a red matter black hole is the kind of time travel that creates an alternate universe but keeps the original timeline intact.  Warping around the sun is the kind that alters the existing timeline.  So, I don't think Spock could justify it as undoing Nero's temporal meddling.  What Nero did was the moral equivalent of blowing up a planet in present day space, which is a pretty shiatty thing to do, but doesn't justify time travel.
 
2013-02-05 11:26:28 AM  

serial_crusher: Well, Free Willy only happened because Kirk 1.0 was involved. I don't think Spock would have concocted that whale heist on his own


He did, actually. Kirk gave him the go ahead but Spock brought up the time travel.

unethical, they were ordered not to.

They were ordered not to approach earth in the present because they were being farked up. They didn't think of going to earth in the past.

Warping around the sun is the kind that alters the existing timeline.  So, I don't think Spock could justify it as undoing Nero's temporal meddling.  What Nero did was the moral equivalent of blowing up a planet in present day space, which is a pretty shiatty thing to do, but doesn't justify time travel.

I get what you're saying but that's some pretty cold logic, which Spock often fails at. I also don't see how engaging in time travel to stop the destruction of a planet due to non-time travel related problems is more ethical than doing the same thing to stop a time travel incursion-related catastrophe.

Eh, who cares. time travel was handled well in Star Trek at most 3 times in a dozen others. And where were the supposed Time Police in all of this?
 
2013-02-05 02:29:19 PM  

Mugato: serial_crusher: Well, Free Willy only happened because Kirk 1.0 was involved. I don't think Spock would have concocted that whale heist on his own

He did, actually. Kirk gave him the go ahead but Spock brought up the time travel.

unethical, they were ordered not to.

They were ordered not to approach earth in the present because they were being farked up. They didn't think of going to earth in the past.

Warping around the sun is the kind that alters the existing timeline.  So, I don't think Spock could justify it as undoing Nero's temporal meddling.  What Nero did was the moral equivalent of blowing up a planet in present day space, which is a pretty shiatty thing to do, but doesn't justify time travel.

I get what you're saying but that's some pretty cold logic, which Spock often fails at. I also don't see how engaging in time travel to stop the destruction of a planet due to non-time travel related problems is more ethical than doing the same thing to stop a time travel incursion-related catastrophe.

Eh, who cares. time travel was handled well in Star Trek at most 3 times in a dozen others. And where were the supposed Time Police in all of this?


There is very little consistently in how time travel is handled in "Star Trek"--the fact that "slingshot around the sun" time travel and "red matter" time travel have their own different but internally consistent mechanics is probably just a happy coincidence.  The "reboot" movie used the "many-worlds" approach to time travel to justify the reboot, by creating an alternate timeline in which the same characters could have completely different adventures.  In nearly every other time-travel story I remember from the TV show or movies, traveling back in time causes the present/future to abruptly change, but anyone who happens to be inside a temporal phenomenon that shields them from the change (which always happens to be the crew of the Enterprise/Defiant/Voyager).  The only exception I can think of is "Assignment Earth", in which time travel causes events in the past to play out as they were actually intended to.

And if I remember correctly, the "Time Police" were originally introduced as a way to create a temporal loop in which the crew of Voyager, if it can't somehow break the loop, ends up involved in an accident that destroys Earth's entire solar system in the 29th century.  Of course, by breaking the loop, Voyager created a time paradox, but as usual the writers ignored that paradox until they thought they could revisit it to build the plot of another episode.

Come to think of it, the idea of time police, and particularly a "time cop" who has to prevent his future self from going insane and committing a horrible crime, could be pretty interesting in the hands of a good sci-fi author.
 
2013-02-05 02:35:42 PM  

anfrind: Come to think of it, the idea of time police, and particularly a "time cop" who has to prevent his future self from going insane and committing a horrible crime, could be pretty interesting in the hands of a good sci-fi author.


Maybe you should see Looper.
 
2013-02-05 03:51:18 PM  

anfrind: Come to think of it, the idea of time police, and particularly a "time cop" who has to prevent his future self from going insane and committing a horrible crime, could be pretty interesting in the hands of a good sci-fi author.


Actually, the idea of a "Time Cop" who governs over all time travel shenanigans, would have made all time travel stories impossible.
 
2013-02-05 10:28:01 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Sergeant Angle: Blathering Idjut: Grand_Moff_Joseph: OtherLittleGuy: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Vina

A pissed off Captain Proton

Check me: Robert April.

Kracko!

Rick Berman.


Palpatine
 
2013-02-05 11:28:39 PM  

eggrolls: Summer Glau's Love Slave: Sergeant Angle: Blathering Idjut: Grand_Moff_Joseph: OtherLittleGuy: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Vina

A pissed off Captain Proton

Check me: Robert April.

Kracko!

Rick Berman.

Palpatine



You guys give JJ Abrams and Richard Orcci way too much credit for knowing enough about Star Trek to think they know who any of those people are. Except Palpatine.
 
2013-02-06 03:04:37 PM  

Mugato: What I don't get about the time travel narrative crutch Trek uses so much is why Spock 1.0 didn't do the slingshot around the sun thing they did in Star Trek: Greenpeace to save Vulcan. I realize it's probably unethical to go back in time to change every little bad thing that happens, Marlon Brando told Superman that. But this is Vulcan, a planet at least as important as Earth and since its destruction was a direct result of someone else farking with the time line, Spock would have had a better ethical leg to stand on than they did in Star Trek: Save the Whales.


Th\is.  This.  And THIS.  Every time someone changes the timeline in a Trek series, the relevant crew will risk pretty much everything to restore the timeline.  Now JJ has a time traveler come from the future and commit genocide against a founding race of the Federation and... meh.  Makes NO sense.
 
2013-02-06 04:54:40 PM  

extroverted_suicide: Mugato: What I don't get about the time travel narrative crutch Trek uses so much is why Spock 1.0 didn't do the slingshot around the sun thing they did in Star Trek: Greenpeace to save Vulcan. I realize it's probably unethical to go back in time to change every little bad thing that happens, Marlon Brando told Superman that. But this is Vulcan, a planet at least as important as Earth and since its destruction was a direct result of someone else farking with the time line, Spock would have had a better ethical leg to stand on than they did in Star Trek: Save the Whales.

Th\is.  This.  And THIS.  Every time someone changes the timeline in a Trek series, the relevant crew will risk pretty much everything to restore the timeline.  Now JJ has a time traveler come from the future and commit genocide against a founding race of the Federation and... meh.  Makes NO sense.


Not to be THAT nerd, but I'm pretty sure that at this point in the timeline the Vulcan science academy says time travel is impossible. Even if you include that abomination Enterprise, it's pretty clear that only people waaay past JJ Trek time-wise would have access to time travel. It wasn't until into Kirk's 5 year voyage that they first went back in time (Tomorrow is Yesterday), and that wouldn't have happened yet.
 
2013-02-06 05:02:00 PM  
Just to clarify, I realise that the Vulcans would believe in time travel now that it's helped destroy Vulcan but without that red matter or until they realise they can just, like, fly around the sun really quickly, Vulcan is gone.

What you have to realise is, trying to reconcile it with exisiting Trek is entirely futile, it really is something completely different and don't trust Abrams to do things or pay attention to things that have previously been canon. I imagine the reality of his deal is that he can do whatever he wants in these films with respect to the franchise. And though the last film had a nod to Enterprise with Admiral Archer's dog, like you said, there's time police working to restore continuities in Archer's time so where are they now? (Forgotten, conveniently).

I guess the gist of this is, if you don't like what JJ's done to Star Trek, console yourself that all these films take place in the microsecond before continuity was restored by those future federation guys, evaporating Abrams lens flare alternate reality.

/ hope that makes sense, I've been tokin
 
2013-02-06 05:06:56 PM  

skodabunny: extroverted_suicide: Mugato: What I don't get about the time travel narrative crutch Trek uses so much is why Spock 1.0 didn't do the slingshot around the sun thing they did in Star Trek: Greenpeace to save Vulcan. I realize it's probably unethical to go back in time to change every little bad thing that happens, Marlon Brando told Superman that. But this is Vulcan, a planet at least as important as Earth and since its destruction was a direct result of someone else farking with the time line, Spock would have had a better ethical leg to stand on than they did in Star Trek: Save the Whales.

Th\is.  This.  And THIS.  Every time someone changes the timeline in a Trek series, the relevant crew will risk pretty much everything to restore the timeline.  Now JJ has a time traveler come from the future and commit genocide against a founding race of the Federation and... meh.  Makes NO sense.

Not to be THAT nerd, but I'm pretty sure that at this point in the timeline the Vulcan science academy says time travel is impossible. Even if you include that abomination Enterprise, it's pretty clear that only people waaay past JJ Trek time-wise would have access to time travel. It wasn't until into Kirk's 5 year voyage that they first went back in time (Tomorrow is Yesterday), and that wouldn't have happened yet.


Why would old-Spock, who still exist, travel back in time?
 
2013-02-06 05:29:16 PM  
Fark seems to have eaten my previous reply.

In answer: Because JJ Abrams wills it thus, like I said, don't try to reconcile it with what's come before. JJ's continuity only exists as far back as his pre-film comic book teaser and film itself.  JJ's Trek and Roddenberry's Trek are two entirely different enterprises (if you'll forgive the pun). I'm not hating on JJ's, I just don't really see it as the same thing.
 
2013-02-06 05:40:25 PM  

skodabunny: Fark seems to have eaten my previous reply.

In answer: Because JJ Abrams wills it thus, like I said, don't try to reconcile it with what's come before. JJ's continuity only exists as far back as his pre-film comic book teaser and film itself.  JJ's Trek and Roddenberry's Trek are two entirely different enterprises (if you'll forgive the pun). I'm not hating on JJ's, I just don't really see it as the same thing.


And yes, he is 'spock prime', thus meaning that what happened previously did happen and retains all that knowledge, etc, but if you really want to explain this away in a throw-away style... Spock won't do it or explain how to do it because it's like future knowledge and therefore, unethical or some shiat. Of course really though, it's because he's only there to legitimise the new incarnation and serves whatever function Abrams desires. And his previous time travel skillz won't be forming a part of that.

It's all good though, I like having it back on the big screen and Abrams didn't sneak into my house and steal my blue rays of the original series' like you'd think he's done to some Farkers.
 
2013-02-06 08:43:14 PM  

skodabunny: skodabunny: Fark seems to have eaten my previous reply.

In answer: Because JJ Abrams wills it thus, like I said, don't try to reconcile it with what's come before. JJ's continuity only exists as far back as his pre-film comic book teaser and film itself.  JJ's Trek and Roddenberry's Trek are two entirely different enterprises (if you'll forgive the pun). I'm not hating on JJ's, I just don't really see it as the same thing.

And yes, he is 'spock prime', thus meaning that what happened previously did happen and retains all that knowledge, etc, but if you really want to explain this away in a throw-away style... Spock won't do it or explain how to do it because it's like future knowledge and therefore, unethical or some shiat. Of course really though, it's because he's only there to legitimise the new incarnation and serves whatever function Abrams desires. And his previous time travel skillz won't be forming a part of that.

It's all good though, I like having it back on the big screen and Abrams didn't sneak into my house and steal my blue rays of the original series' like you'd think he's done to some Farkers.


Well, he did legitimize it.  Spoke Prime basically made the movie.  Without him, it might as well have been Galaxy Quest 2
 
2013-02-06 09:47:45 PM  

skodabunny: extroverted_suicide: Mugato: What I don't get about the time travel narrative crutch Trek uses so much is why Spock 1.0 didn't do the slingshot around the sun thing they did in Star Trek: Greenpeace to save Vulcan. I realize it's probably unethical to go back in time to change every little bad thing that happens, Marlon Brando told Superman that. But this is Vulcan, a planet at least as important as Earth and since its destruction was a direct result of someone else farking with the time line, Spock would have had a better ethical leg to stand on than they did in Star Trek: Save the Whales.

Th\is.  This.  And THIS.  Every time someone changes the timeline in a Trek series, the relevant crew will risk pretty much everything to restore the timeline.  Now JJ has a time traveler come from the future and commit genocide against a founding race of the Federation and... meh.  Makes NO sense.

Not to be THAT nerd, but I'm pretty sure that at this point in the timeline the Vulcan science academy says time travel is impossible. Even if you include that abomination Enterprise, it's pretty clear that only people waaay past JJ Trek time-wise would have access to time travel. It wasn't until into Kirk's 5 year voyage that they first went back in time (Tomorrow is Yesterday), and that wouldn't have happened yet.


I'll be THAT nerd, then. Future-Spock knows all about time travel, obviously. And alternate timelines. No excuse why he wouldn't try to fix the timeline & save his mommy. None.
 
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