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(Gizmodo)   New Star Trek trailer is full of Enterprise distress calls. He's givin' her all she's got   (gizmodo.com.au) divider line 177
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6003 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Feb 2013 at 7:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-04 02:19:17 PM

thornhill: Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.


...problem is, you can use that description (replacing Captain Kirk for Captain Picard if necessary) to describe the plot of almost half of the Trek films (II, Generations, Nemesis, and New!Trek).  With at least two more, (TMP and IV), you can omit the "cunning adversary" part.
 
2013-02-04 02:25:21 PM

IlGreven: ...problem is, you can use that description (replacing Captain Kirk for Captain Picard if necessary) to describe the plot of almost half of the Trek films


That or someone's out for revenge for something.
 
2013-02-04 02:26:36 PM

IlGreven: thornhill: Let's just take Trek II: Captain Kirk must stop his most cunning advisory from unleashing a weapon that has the power to destroy all life on a planet.

That tells me way more than any of the ads for the new Trek film.

...problem is, you can use that description (replacing Captain Kirk for Captain Picard if necessary) to describe the plot of almost half of the Trek films (II, Generations, Nemesis, and New!Trek).  With at least two more, (TMP and IV), you can omit the "cunning adversary" part.


I would hardly describe Shinzon, a villain who required Picard's blood in a very short period of time yet allowed the Enterprise to wait sixteen hours before even acknowledging its presence, as "cunning".
 
2013-02-04 02:37:19 PM
Methuselah.

In the 9 minute piece that I shelled out $17 to see you have a child that appears to be dying, Cucumber says he can save the child. The child might be rapidly aging, which would make Methuselah's ability to not age useful.

He might not have run off to his own private Forbidden Planet yet, so he's meddling with the course of history - which is, really, what all terrorists are trying to do. He thinks he sees some tragic cycle of history unfolding again - perhaps the Federation to him looks like Roman Empire 2.0 - and he's going to put a stop to it.

Go through a list of TOS episodes, and there aren't that many villains who appear human.  Then take out the ones who Kirk would recognize such as Garth or Finnegan, or the ones who would make no sense such as Kodos or Charlie Evans, and the ones who were comedic like Mudd and Trelane, and you end up with a pretty short list. Basically Kahn, Gary Seven (not really a villain, and the whole thing was a backdoor pilot), Dr. Sevrin (that would be an epic troll), or Methuselah.
 
2013-02-04 02:39:22 PM

Tat'dGreaser: Any Pie Left: The promos have all been heavy on effects and light on plot or characterization, which does not bode well.

How would you suggest they show plot or character development in a less than minute long preview???


The trailer to Dead Island comes to mind. Or even the Man of Steel trailer. Done well, it's possible.
 
2013-02-04 02:43:48 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.

Hmmm...maybe it's Crewman Daniels, from the 29th century??

Or, maybe even a Section 31 agent?

/now that would be trolling the fans


I for one am disappointed that Section 31 didn't resonate more with the series.  There were hints to it in Enterprise, and I thought William Sadler as Agent Sloan was deliciously evil and mysterious.  It was yet another "needed" chink in Roddenberry's future utopia, that at some level a shadow agency would be needed to keep the visage of the Federation as idyllic and superior clean.

I know that Pocket Books did a series based around the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, and they did a 4-novel Section 31 mini-series (which was good), but I'd love to see some more espionage, intrigue and subversive tones to a Section 31 series.  I always pictured that Mackenzie Calhoun was a semi-active Section 31 agent, since he was doing secret black ops work for Admiral Nechayev for years while he was in Starfleet.

/Yes, I brought up Peter David's New Frontier series yet again
//No, I'm not sorry, because it farking rocks and would have made a good tv series, live or animated
///A clash between Gary 7's agency, Section 31 and Daniel's Temporal "Preservation" Agency would be a cool story.
 
2013-02-04 02:44:14 PM

x23: AiryAnne: FTFA: "Ever wanted to see what it'd be like to torture the USS Enterprise?"

I guess he never saw Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, or Generations.

wasn't looking too hot by the end of Nemesis either. huge portions of the saucer section missing and all.


I'd forgotten about Nemesis.  Thanks for the reminder, jerk!
/jk
 
2013-02-04 02:50:28 PM
A Star Trek movie on earth. Yay!

/double dumbass on you, too!
 
2013-02-04 02:51:22 PM

StrikitRich: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Maybe he's Garth of Izar


I keep hoping for this.  But who knows?  For all we know he's someone we've never even heard of who survived the fleet massacre at Vulcan, got magic black hole powers, and now wants revenge for the loss of his crew.  Although that would be stupid.  So hopefully Garth or Mitchell.
 
2013-02-04 02:51:54 PM
I wonder who Kirk will have to insult and get punched by in order to command the ship in this movie.

Maybe he can go talk shiat about some Admiral's mother and get decked. Cut to next scene where he's getting his admiral braids.
 
2013-02-04 02:58:34 PM

Mike Chewbacca: A Star Trek movie on earth. Yay!

/double dumbass on you, too!


The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.
 
2013-02-04 03:05:05 PM

salvador.hardin: The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.


And partially because they went for the Beastemaster/Masters of the Universe "We're not spending any money on this one so it's going to be set on Earth in the present" route.
 
2013-02-04 03:11:12 PM
I only listened to the preview during the superbowl but I swear the villain sounded exactly like Jean Luc Picard.  Watching the preview here still makes me think it's a voice-over.  Am I the only one?
 
2013-02-04 03:23:19 PM

salvador.hardin: Mike Chewbacca: A Star Trek movie on earth. Yay!

/double dumbass on you, too!

The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.


TRIPLE dumbass on you, too!
 
2013-02-04 03:25:30 PM

Beeblebrox: I only listened to the preview during the superbowl but I swear the villain sounded exactly like Jean Luc Picard.  Watching the preview here still makes me think it's a voice-over.  Am I the only one?


cumberbatch has a very cool voice, it was him doing the voiceover.
 
2013-02-04 03:30:15 PM

Mugato: salvador.hardin: The most financially successful Trek film took place almost entirely on Earth.

And partially because they went for the Beastemaster/Masters of the Universe "We're not spending any money on this one so it's going to be set on Earth in the present" route.


Actually the budget was double that of Wrath of Khan (though that's more because II and III were made on a shoestring). Location shooting in San Francisco can be expensive.  Anyway, I was talking gross, not net. IV was the highest grossing until Trek '09. First Contact, which was the highest grossing of the TNG movies took place mostly on Earth too.

Anyway, as a fan I share the sentiment that setting a Trek movie on Earth is stupid. It is a wasted opportunity and takes away from the themes of exploration and dealing with the unknown. I wasn't trying to argue that point, just confine the scope of the stupidity.

Financially speaking, setting Star Trek on Earth is a sound strategy.
 
2013-02-04 03:33:14 PM

Bendal: It's Apollo; he figured out how to minaturize his power generator and wants to return to Earth to punish all the unbelievers for the folly of their ways.

/either him or Mitchell


now that's funny. very good sir.
 
2013-02-04 03:43:13 PM
justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.

that's a good point. now im not sure either.

i doubt it's Methuselah. way too obscure, even for JJ
 
2013-02-04 03:45:04 PM
How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?
 
2013-02-04 03:47:42 PM

Giltric: How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


I think it was a privately funded project by Data's creator's ancestor.
 
2013-02-04 04:09:50 PM

Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?



The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.
 
2013-02-04 04:12:10 PM

salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution

that I know of to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.


Fixed to avoid crucifiction at the hands of more knowledgeable trekies.
 
2013-02-04 04:17:37 PM

th0th: Grand_Moff_Joseph: justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.

Hmmm...maybe it's Crewman Daniels, from the 29th century??

Or, maybe even a Section 31 agent?

/now that would be trolling the fans

I for one am disappointed that Section 31 didn't resonate more with the series.  There were hints to it in Enterprise, and I thought William Sadler as Agent Sloan was deliciously evil and mysterious.  It was yet another "needed" chink in Roddenberry's future utopia, that at some level a shadow agency would be needed to keep the visage of the Federation as idyllic and superior clean.

I know that Pocket Books did a series based around the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, and they did a 4-novel Section 31 mini-series (which was good), but I'd love to see some more espionage, intrigue and subversive tones to a Section 31 series.  I always pictured that Mackenzie Calhoun was a semi-active Section 31 agent, since he was doing secret black ops work for Admiral Nechayev for years while he was in Starfleet.

/Yes, I brought up Peter David's New Frontier series yet again
//No, I'm not sorry, because it farking rocks and would have made a good tv series, live or animated
///A clash between Gary 7's agency, Section 31 and Daniel's Temporal "Preservation" Agency would be a cool story.


Intriguing!  Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.
 
2013-02-04 04:18:23 PM

salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.


That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?
 
2013-02-04 04:24:17 PM

imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.

That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?


That's a good point, but one that falls under the umbrella of "it's sci-fi - just go with it"  :)
 
2013-02-04 04:40:36 PM

imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Giltric: How does Peter Wellers "CEO" role work into the movie.

How did the Eugenics thing start, was it a biotech company or was it a government run thing?


The idea was that scientifically bred supermen took over much of the planet in the 1990s and became Tyrants. There's no real attribution to whether the science was private or government funded. Since the original episode was written in the 1960s when most cutting edge science was publicly funded, I think we can assume it was more or less a government project. It was also something that happened in many nations at once, which has the smell of an arms race. Eugenics was pretty popular science in the early part of the 20th century but had fallen from favor by the 1960s, largely because it was used by the Nazis as justification for the whole master race thing.

Anyway, in the Trekverse the science was outlawed after the Tyrants were defeated and exiled. Enterprise featured a few episodes with Data's creator's ancestor pursuing Eugenics as a rogue scientist.

That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?


Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.
 
2013-02-04 04:59:22 PM

salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.


So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.
 
2013-02-04 05:02:27 PM
Grand_Moff_Joseph:
Intriguing!  Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.

When I first read this, I had the weirdest boner. But on reflection of the erection, I realized why I hate time travel stories - too easy to hit the reset button.  That year of hell? Never happened. Bleh.

OTOH, it is possible to do an old trope in a new way, for example letting Riker's double live.
 
2013-02-04 05:02:47 PM

imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.

So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.


I guess I need to wonder if Julian Bashir had to agree to chemical sterilization, since he was genetically modified (or at least one of the few who weren't batshiat crazy).  At the end of the series he and Ezri were getting it on, so I wonder if we'll be looking at some human/Trill hybrid Übermensch in a later novel.
 
2013-02-04 05:04:09 PM
imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.
 
2013-02-04 05:08:40 PM

MisterRonbo: Grand_Moff_Joseph:
Intriguing! Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.

When I first read this, I had the weirdest boner. But on reflection of the erection, I realized why I hate time travel stories - too easy to hit the reset button. That year of hell? Never happened. Bleh.


I never got the time cop thing. If there were really cops preventing time travel violations, there'd be no time travel stories in Star Trek.
 
2013-02-04 05:09:02 PM

th0th: imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.

So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.

I guess I need to wonder if Julian Bashir had to agree to chemical sterilization, since he was genetically modified (or at least one of the few who weren't batshiat crazy).  At the end of the series he and Ezri were getting it on, so I wonder if we'll be looking at some human/Trill hybrid Übermensch in a later novel.


I had always been under the impression that Eugenics weren't about genetic modifications but rather, selective breeding. One could make a clear argument that genetically modified people weren't even human. But selectively bred people are as human as anyone else -- they merely possess only what we consider "good" traits.
 
2013-02-04 05:12:01 PM

MisterRonbo: imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.


I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).

You'd figure the dude who could get in and out without needing lube would be much better off spreading his DNA.

/insert racist joke:
//look at China
 
2013-02-04 05:40:52 PM

imgod2u: That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?


While they weren't 100% accurate, the Nazis did a decent enough job of identifying and killing jews.  I imagine a similar holocaust, with worldwide public support, would have done a decent job of killing off any supers Khan left behind.  And if they were scattered and breeding among the normal population, their descendents would be watered down with each passing generation, so eventually you wouldn't care.

/ Yes, I just Godwinned a Star Trek thread.
 
2013-02-04 05:46:01 PM

imgod2u: I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).


I always figured that worked up until people started wearing enough clothing that penis size stopped being noticeable.  (Insert racist joke about Africans wearing less clothing than Europeans because of the climate, and that leading to certain stereotypes).  A sought-after woman is going to judge two potential suitors by whatever means she can.
Eventually there's a "too big" point, but would a monogamous culture make that irrelevant?  If she can't have sex until she's married, and it turns out she doesn't like it... well, too bad for her.
 
2013-02-04 05:46:11 PM

imgod2u: MisterRonbo: imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.

I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).

You'd figure the dude who could get in and out without needing lube would be much better off spreading his DNA.

/insert racist joke:
//look at China


Small Penis
Cum Quick -- Cum Often

That'll attract the ladies.
 
2013-02-04 05:52:23 PM

Brick-House: imgod2u: MisterRonbo: imgod2u:
So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

The 18 inch penis would be a dead giveaway.

Especially on the women.

I know you're joking but that got me thinking: would that really be a survival boon? Not 18 inch dong specifically, but does larger genitalia really lend to better chances of breeding (within a given range).

You'd figure the dude who could get in and out without needing lube would be much better off spreading his DNA.

/insert racist joke:
//look at China

Small Penis
Cum Quick -- Cum Often

That'll attract the ladies.


Has penis size been a point of attraction amongst women in any culture in history? From the sociological studies I've seen, it's really more of a thing amongst guys and even then, it's more of a recent western thing.
 
2013-02-04 05:54:06 PM

MisterRonbo: Grand_Moff_Joseph:
Intriguing!  Personally, I've always hoped for a series (or at least one big novel) focusing on a Section 31 agent that has gone undercover inside the Dept. of Temporal Investigations.

When I first read this, I had the weirdest boner. But on reflection of the erection, I realized why I hate time travel stories - too easy to hit the reset button.  That year of hell? Never happened. Bleh.

OTOH, it is possible to do an old trope in a new way, for example letting Riker's double live.


Exactly.  Done right, this could be epic.  Personally, I would hire Michael A Martin to write the screenplay - his ST novels are usually fantastic.
 
2013-02-04 05:56:09 PM

IlGreven: LDM90: amindtat: bhcompy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: some_beer_drinker: He is NOT khan. carry on.

Gary Mitchell

Sybok

Maurice Picard

Thomas Riker

Q Jr.


Sybok???  All this time I thought his time was Sidewalk!!

Ohhhh... now I feel like an idiot.

/not really knew it was Sybok all along.
 
2013-02-04 05:57:15 PM

justanothersumguy: I am actually beginning to doubt it is Gary Mitchell.Kirk and Mitchell were friends at Starfleet Academy, yet in the trailer Kirk very clearly asks him who he is.


Kirk and Mitchell were friends at the Academy in TOS, but were they friends at the Academy in the Abramsverse?
 
2013-02-04 05:58:55 PM

serial_crusher: imgod2u: That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

While they weren't 100% accurate, the Nazis did a decent enough job of identifying and killing jews.  I imagine a similar holocaust, with worldwide public support, would have done a decent job of killing off any supers Khan left behind.  And if they were scattered and breeding among the normal population, their descendents would be watered down with each passing generation, so eventually you wouldn't care.

/ Yes, I just Godwinned a Star Trek thread.


I would think the Eugenics war era earth would be similar to post-invasion Germany more than it would resemble Nazi-ruled Germany in that it'd be much more chaotic with far less infrastructure and troop control. Add to that the fact that it's much more difficult to scour the whole planet for Kahns than scour a relatively small country like Germany -- and western europe as a whole really -- and you can see the problem there.

I could totally see a subplot where they find a hidden settlement of Eugenically enhanced people living on Earth and evading detection this whole time.
 
2013-02-04 06:16:30 PM

imgod2u: serial_crusher: imgod2u: That never made sense to me unless the genetically enhanced were sterile. Otherwise, like any other genetic modification, they'd mix and mingle with the rest of humanity. Yes, Eugenics is specifically about controlling breeding but you can't tell me that in the midst of all out global chaos, more than enough of them didn't get it on with regular humans.

So really, how would humanity determine which were bred from the Eugenics program and which weren't?

While they weren't 100% accurate, the Nazis did a decent enough job of identifying and killing jews.  I imagine a similar holocaust, with worldwide public support, would have done a decent job of killing off any supers Khan left behind.  And if they were scattered and breeding among the normal population, their descendents would be watered down with each passing generation, so eventually you wouldn't care.

/ Yes, I just Godwinned a Star Trek thread.

I would think the Eugenics war era earth would be similar to post-invasion Germany more than it would resemble Nazi-ruled Germany in that it'd be much more chaotic with far less infrastructure and troop control. Add to that the fact that it's much more difficult to scour the whole planet for Kahns than scour a relatively small country like Germany -- and western europe as a whole really -- and you can see the problem there.

I could totally see a subplot where they find a hidden settlement of Eugenically enhanced people living on Earth and evading detection this whole time.


1) Sure, Germany was in chaotic shambles after WWII, but wasn't it also like that after WWI, which helped the Nazis rise to power in the first place?  Maybe after Khan took off, and some remaining mutants stuck around to try and live in hiding, a few years went by before a new Hitler showed up and blamed everything on those remaining mutants.
2) I'm not sure we have enough info to really think there was a big war that left everything in shambles.  Khan scared the crap out of everybody, but it could have just been one single Doomsday plan that went wrong because of a critical flaw.  The normals just barely stopped it so that gave them the incentive to kill the rest of the mutants.
3) I like the idea of the hidden settlement though.  Could have a whole "what do we do with them now" episode, kind of like we had with Dr Bashir except less arrogant.  It would work well in my Star Trek/Law & Order crossover idea....
Maybe Section 31 finds out about them and uses them as an elite black ops squad in return for protection.
 
2013-02-04 07:45:46 PM

Clash City Farker: The blonde chick with the haircut is a dead giveaway. They look exactly alike.


That's Carol Marcus.
 
2013-02-04 07:55:57 PM

imgod2u: th0th: imgod2u: salvador.hardin: Maybe some did. Maybe those genes are in the pool of humanity from that point on. Maybe Zephram Cochrane, born in the 2030s, was a second or third generation descendant and gifted with genetically enhanced intellect. That would explain why he is able to conceive of and develop Warp technology in the wake of a nuclear apocalypse despite the notable disadvantage of being frequently and thoroughly sauced.

So that brings about the question of why they had to be exiled to begin with. It's not like humanity doesn't have DNA from its Eugenics program running through it. I suppose it may just have been the leaders who tried to setup their rule who were exiled but then, you'd figure after a few hundred years, humanity would converge with Kahn due to many things, not the least of which is natural selection obviously favoring the enhanced.

I guess I need to wonder if Julian Bashir had to agree to chemical sterilization, since he was genetically modified (or at least one of the few who weren't batshiat crazy).  At the end of the series he and Ezri were getting it on, so I wonder if we'll be looking at some human/Trill hybrid Übermensch in a later novel.

I had always been under the impression that Eugenics weren't about genetic modifications but rather, selective breeding. One could make a clear argument that genetically modified people weren't even human. But selectively bred people are as human as anyone else -- they merely possess only what we consider "good" traits.


Historically, yes, eugenics was selective breeding, or more specifically, preventing the "weaker" individuals from breeding (what counts as "weaker" is, of course, ill-defined).  That being said, selective breeding was the closest thing to genetic engineering available when the term was coined, so I think it's reasonable to assume that scientists in Star Trek's late 20th century would resort to more advanced technologies.

Heck, the storyline pretty much demands genetic engineering well beyond selective breeding (perhaps even beyond modern science), since the history of the world in "Star Trek" is pretty much identical to the real world up until about the 1970's, and the Eugenics Wars started in 1992--less than two generations later.  There's just no way to create a race of supermen via selective breeding in just one generation.
 
2013-02-04 08:01:45 PM

Mentat: That's Carol Marcus


Carol Marcus is a fine choice as a Kirk love interest, by the way. All we really know about her is from Wrath of Khan, but we know she bore Kirk's son and they were serious enough that she had to decide between him and his swashbuckling ways or a serious life in science. It's a completely unexplored Kirk backstory and it's canon. It's an obvious choice.
 
2013-02-04 08:11:28 PM

anfrind: Heck, the storyline pretty much demands genetic engineering well beyond selective breeding (perhaps even beyond modern science), since the history of the world in "Star Trek" is pretty much identical to the real world up until about the 1970's, and the Eugenics Wars started in 1992--less than two generations later. There's just no way to create a race of supermen via selective breeding in just one generation.


Yeah, the "augmnets" (Khan, Dr. Basir, etc) were genetically enhanced. It was a lot more than selective breeding.
 
2013-02-04 09:49:52 PM
Here's my theory:

Some random Starfleet ship finds the SS Botany Bay adrift in deep space, and brings it (or at least its occupants) back to Earth. The Federation keeps them all in animated suspension while they debate what to do with them. Unbeknownst to Starfleet, a small cadre of Eugenics supermen have been quietly living on Earth since the Eugenics Wars, integrated into society and even Starfleet ranks. When the news of the Botany Bay recovery spreads, the Cumberbatch character (named "John Harrison") jumps into action to spring his bretheren from Starfleet control. Harrison finally achieves his goal, opening one of the stasis chambers to reveal Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh.

So I'm predicting not a total rehash of known Star Trek canon, but a reimagining of the Eugenics backstory. After all, if JJ can destroy Vulcan, why not re-engineer this too?
 
2013-02-04 09:53:00 PM

The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh


Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?
 
2013-02-04 11:06:19 PM

serial_crusher: The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh

Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?


Hmmm after reading about him on Memory Alpha maybe his character makes Khan and starts the whole eugenics thing in an attempt to make super humans and rid the galaxy of aliens.
 
2013-02-04 11:15:38 PM

Giltric: serial_crusher: The correct answer is...: Peter Weller as Khan Noonien Singh

Is this supposed to tie in to Peter Weller's character on Enterprise, or do they just bear an uncanny resemblance to each other?

Hmmm after reading about him on Memory Alpha maybe his character makes Khan and starts the whole eugenics thing in an attempt to make super humans and rid the galaxy of aliens.


Except no.
Khan was actually mentioned already in Enterprise. In the 4th season when Archer was trying to track down Soong's augments one of the augments mentions that Khan and the Botany Bay are already drifting somewhere out in space.
 
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