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(My Fox Detroit)   Detroit high school coach shows how a good guy with a gun on campus can stop a bad guy with a gun   (myfoxdetroit.com) divider line 576
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22733 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Feb 2013 at 7:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-03 07:56:34 PM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Why did he shoot the unarmed kid? Is it legal to shoot an unarmed person in Michigan because they were with an armed person attempting to rob you? When I took the class for my CCW here in Cali, we were told we couldn't shoot people who were unarmed and/or posed no immediate threat. We have to BE threatened, not simply FEEL threatened.

/curious about the laws there about this sort of thing.


An unarmed person CAN be a threat under many circumstances.
 
2013-02-03 07:57:13 PM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Why did he shoot the unarmed kid? Is it legal to shoot an unarmed person in Michigan because they were with an armed person attempting to rob you? When I took the class for my CCW here in Cali, we were told we couldn't shoot people who were unarmed and/or posed no immediate threat. We have to BE threatened, not simply FEEL threatened.

/curious about the laws there about this sort of thing.


In most places, if you have 'reasonable' fear for your life, you can defend yourself with lethal force.

Generally, it's known as the "Look out, they're coming right for us!' defense.
 
2013-02-03 07:57:39 PM

pedrop357: austerity101: If a school shooting were stopped by a guy with a gun, we'd hear about it. Sadly, that doesn't happen very often, if ever.

Well, given that CCW holders can't carry in schools in 46 or states, and most schools don't have even a single armed resource officer/security guard/police officer, I suppose that's why it doesn't happen.


Columbine High School had an armed security guard at the time of the attack. But by all means, do go on.
 
2013-02-03 07:58:06 PM

pedrop357: Your Average Witty Fark User: Tons of shiat isn't mentioned in the Constitution. I suppose you should quit the internet, it isn't mentioned. Fark off.

Does the government provide the internet?


Doesn't matter, it isn't mentioned, so GFY. The Constitution doesn't mention tactical nukes either, slappy.
 
2013-02-03 07:58:52 PM

dookdookdook: pedrop357: Well, given that CCW holders can't carry in schools in 46 or states, and most schools don't have even a single armed resource officer/security guard/police officer, I suppose that's why it doesn't happen.

So the tens of millions of people in those 4 states isn't a large enough sample size for you?


Aside from Thurston in OR in 1998, when was the last school shooting in OR, UT, AL or NH?
 
2013-02-03 07:59:04 PM
I'd be perfectly happy to make it legal for retired (or active of course) police officers to carry fully automatic guns if in return we'd put in place regulations making it tough for the delusional 'I's gonna save everybodies with my glock' extremists to build their personal arsenals.
 
2013-02-03 08:00:07 PM

pedrop357: did the gun pick itself up and kill the person?


derp de derp

How do you get 87?  Are you including suicides?

Link

Sorry, does 34 gun murders per day sound more acceptable?  What is the allowable number of deaths per day in your opinion?
 
2013-02-03 08:00:11 PM

JohnnyC: pedrop357: austerity101: If a school shooting were stopped by a guy with a gun, we'd hear about it. Sadly, that doesn't happen very often, if ever.

Well, given that CCW holders can't carry in schools in 46 or states, and most schools don't have even a single armed resource officer/security guard/police officer, I suppose that's why it doesn't happen.

Columbine High School had an armed security guard at the time of the attack. But by all means, do go on.


I never said ALL schools don't, just most.
 
2013-02-03 08:00:20 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.


Why?

Shooters are only stopped by guns, and they're pussies.

They pick schools because schools are soft targets and pussies like soft targets.
They kill themselves because bullets hurt and they're too cowardly to face cops.

A better way would be simply to encourage CCW among teachers. Harden the soft targets and the pussies will look for something softer.
 
2013-02-03 08:01:20 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User: pedrop357: Your Average Witty Fark User: Tons of shiat isn't mentioned in the Constitution. I suppose you should quit the internet, it isn't mentioned. Fark off.

Does the government provide the internet?

Doesn't matter, it isn't mentioned, so GFY. The Constitution doesn't mention tactical nukes either, slappy.


It should matter since the Constitution is a document that defines and limits government.  It provides no power for them to censor speech, regardless of the media, and provides no power to ban guns in schools.
 
2013-02-03 08:02:20 PM
Eventually society will weed out all the criminals too stupid or weak to mug people properly and then things will start to get ugly.  Fortunatly it will happen much less frequently

FYI:  To mug someone properly you just ambush and kill them and then take thier shiat afterwards.  None of this silly asking business where your mark can shoot you back, or even see before you mug them for that matter.
 
2013-02-03 08:02:32 PM

Azlefty: kmmontandon: And I swear, if you cite John Lott, I will cockpunch you through the Internet.

So the thought of John Lott makes you wan to touch my junk, Kinky to say the least.


i hear that Mary Rosh is pretty hawt.  Cite her!
 
2013-02-03 08:02:40 PM

dookdookdook: pedrop357: did the gun pick itself up and kill the person?

derp de derp

How do you get 87?  Are you including suicides?

Link

Sorry, does 34 gun murders per day sound more acceptable?  What is the allowable number of deaths per day in your opinion?


Given that quite a few are gang/drug related, I'd say that ending the drug war would be a fantastic way to save thousands of lives a year.

We're a violent society as evidenced by our non-firearm murder rate alone.  Guns are only part of the story.
 
2013-02-03 08:03:11 PM
Detroit high school coach shows how a good guy with a gun on campus can stop a bad guy with a gun

Whether he can or not is irrelevant.  That school should already have a top-notch security dept so there isn't a "bad guy with a gun" in the first place.
 
2013-02-03 08:03:20 PM

Slaxl: Therefore quiet, all of you... they're approaching the Tyrannosaur paddock.


I've never heard this one before... but I like it.
 
2013-02-03 08:03:28 PM

pedrop357: Aside from Thurston in OR in 1998, when was the last school shooting in OR, UT, AL or NH?


Aside from 9/11, when was the last time someone killed 3,000 Americans in one day?

Aside from 2005, when was the last time Tom Brady ever won a Super Bowl?

Aside from Apollo 17, when was the last time anyone ever walked on the moon?
 
2013-02-03 08:04:29 PM

pedrop357: AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.

Why?

What part of the Constitution gives the government the power to make such a law?


What is wrong with your Google fu, guys?  The federal Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 is still in effect.
 
2013-02-03 08:04:34 PM

doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.

Why?

Shooters are only stopped by guns, and they're pussies.

They pick schools because schools are soft targets and pussies like soft targets.
They kill themselves because bullets hurt and they're too cowardly to face cops.

A better way would be simply to encourage CCW among teachers. Harden the soft targets and the pussies will look for something softer.


Maybe we need less guns and more of these:
www.sasumata.jp
 
2013-02-03 08:04:41 PM

doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.

Why?

Shooters are only stopped by guns, and they're pussies.

They pick schools because schools are soft targets and pussies like soft targets.
They kill themselves because bullets hurt and they're too cowardly to face cops.

A better way would be simply to encourage CCW among teachers. Harden the soft targets and the pussies will look for something softer.


That really just shifts the problem horizontally.
 
2013-02-03 08:05:27 PM

pedrop357: Given that quite a few are gang/drug related, I'd say that ending the drug war would be a fantastic way to save thousands of lives a year.


So it's all the blacks' fault.  Got it.

Even Ann Coulter admits that looking at the white population alone, we still have a higher murder rate than the large majority of first-world nations.
 
2013-02-03 08:05:54 PM

BarkingUnicorn: pedrop357: AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.

Why?

What part of the Constitution gives the government the power to make such a law?

What is wrong with your Google fu, guys?  The federal Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 is still in effect.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez
 
2013-02-03 08:05:57 PM

JSam21: The Muthaship: Slaxl: Sounds like this was a mugging picking the wrong target, rather than a school shooting prevented by a hero.

Therefore quiet, all of you... they're approaching the Tyrannosaur paddock.

Exactly.  2 students who go to the school the guy coaches at try to rob him while he was walking them to their car.  How the hell did they think they were going to get away with that?

Glad you can read. He was walking 2 female students to their car, 2 males, former studentsn approached and tried to rob him.


Wow.  I did totally misread that.  So much so that I think it somehow makes you not a dick.
 
2013-02-03 08:06:12 PM

iheartscotch: Blah blah blah, guns bad; blah blah blah

It's not a gun control problem; it's a people control problem. Until someone figures out how to either control humanity or breed violence out; we will be a small people; a silly people; barbarous and cruel.


I thought controlling humanity is what guns are about.
 
2013-02-03 08:06:44 PM

pedrop357: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Why did he shoot the unarmed kid? Is it legal to shoot an unarmed person in Michigan because they were with an armed person attempting to rob you? When I took the class for my CCW here in Cali, we were told we couldn't shoot people who were unarmed and/or posed no immediate threat. We have to BE threatened, not simply FEEL threatened.

/curious about the laws there about this sort of thing.

An unarmed person CAN be a threat under many circumstances.


Yeah, I've had that conversation with someone before. We both came to the conclusion that anyone, anywhere CAN be a threat at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. He decided that meant it was OK to shoot someone if you FELT threatened. I decided I would try and retreat to safety (just as I was taught) and only fire on an unarmed person if I had no other choice. He doesn't have a CCW, though, so it won't be an issue for him, most likely. He actually failed the test when he took it. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure he's the same friend of a friend who failed the HSC test the first time he took it, too. Hmmm...
 
2013-02-03 08:06:52 PM

dookdookdook: Even Ann Coulter admits

...

Link:  http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/01/14/ann-coulter-if-you-compare-wh ite-populations-we/192232

(Fark eats mm links)
 
2013-02-03 08:07:25 PM

pedrop357: AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.

Why?

What part of the Constitution gives the government the power to make such a law?


Everyone knows if you make it illegal to take a gun on to school property no one would shoot 20 kids. That's what stops school shootings, rules
 
2013-02-03 08:07:51 PM

dookdookdook: pedrop357: Given that quite a few are gang/drug related, I'd say that ending the drug war would be a fantastic way to save thousands of lives a year.

So it's all the blacks' fault.  Got it.

Even Ann Coulter admits that looking at the white population alone, we still have a higher murder rate than the large majority of first-world nations.


Not so much.  It does show what kind of person you are when you make it about race.

I also admit that we're a violent society.  See my post above about our non-firearm murder rate.

But, it's a hell of a dodge to suggest that a substantial amount of our crime is not drug related, OR to pretend that drug and gang related violence only involves black people.
 
2013-02-03 08:08:35 PM

Anderson's Pooper: That's my point. News stories where guns are used responsibly and effectively are typically ignored by the press. If they treated the tragic stories the same, perhaps we wouldn't see as many copycats. I blame the 24/7 news cycle for extending the life of a lot of these stories.


2.bp.blogspot.com

Man, doesn't he look so badass? C'mon, kids. Nobody will ever pick on you again. You'll be famous too!

/hotlink
//we idolize killers by turning them into legends
 
2013-02-03 08:09:19 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: It can't be denied that people are outraged and horrified at the sheer volume of gun violence news these days.



It also can't be denied that most people were outraged and horrified about terrorism right after 9/11. I'm sure glad that we made an emotional decision and chose to give the government all of those sweeping new powers, rather than recognizing A) media sensationalism, and B) the statistical likelihood of the events that we were wetting our pants over.
 
2013-02-03 08:09:21 PM

pedrop357: But, it's a hell of a dodge to suggest that a substantial amount of our crime is not drug related, OR to pretend that drug and gang related violence only involves black people.


Haha, sure.  "Gang violence" totally isn't a code word for "Black people".

www.michaelekbundit.com
 
2013-02-03 08:10:03 PM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Yeah, I've had that conversation with someone before. We both came to the conclusion that anyone, anywhere CAN be a threat at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. He decided that meant it was OK to shoot someone if you FELT threatened. I decided I would try and retreat to safety (just as I was taught) and only fire on an unarmed person if I had no other choice. He doesn't have a CCW, though, so it won't be an issue for him, most likely. He actually failed the test when he took it. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure he's the same friend of a friend who failed the HSC test the first time he took it, too. Hmmm...


That's scary.  I would think that some kind of disparity of force or inability to retreat would factor in.  If someone wants to beat the crap of of you and won't let you leave-that's justification; same if you try to leave and they pursue.  It's clear as mud, but I think it should need more than just a basic fear.
 
2013-02-03 08:10:52 PM

dookdookdook: pedrop357: But, it's a hell of a dodge to suggest that a substantial amount of our crime is not drug related, OR to pretend that drug and gang related violence only involves black people.

Haha, sure.  "Gang violence" totally isn't a code word for "Black people".

[www.michaelekbundit.com image 250x167]


Cute.  Is that a self portrait there?
 
2013-02-03 08:11:02 PM
Look, The USA has the laxest gun control in the developed world, the most guns in the world per capita (by far) and the highest rate of gun violence (by far) in the developed world.

I'm not actually in support of banning any non-automatic (fully automatic) gun for civilian use outright. I'm am in support of full background checks on all gun purchases, more strenuous licensing and training for guns (and different training a licensing for different classes of firearms), tracking of ammunition purchases in excess of ordinary use, a minimum age for gun use (like we have for, say, voting, alcohol, cigarettes, military service, and driving) and banning clips in excess of 10 shots UNLESS specifically licensed (which would be limited to, say, farmers who have large to medium size mammals infesting and threatening their land). AND LAST: that we should damn well be able to research and record statistics on gun use, ownership, and purchase freely.

What is wrong with anything I just said, constitutionally, and how does any of it contain anything which could be framed as actually banning guns that aren't already banned for civilian use? And, for that matter, does anyone have statistics on how many gun crimes a year in the US are committed not with illegally obtained firearms, but banned firearms, like fully automatic weapons? Anybody?
 
2013-02-03 08:11:28 PM

SpdrJay: Think of how many muggings we could stop if everyone had their own tactical nuke!


I don't get the nuke argument the left makes. A gun is a precision weapon, a nuke kills indiscriminately. If the left cant see the difference between gun ownership and nuke ownership, their deep has reached critical mass
 
2013-02-03 08:11:29 PM

cretinbob: Goody Guys 1 Bad Guys 297


As we tend to point out in every one of these threads, defensive uses of firearms actually outnumber gun-related crimes by an order of magnitude or two.  Albeit, most DGUs do not actually end in someone getting shot, because non-criminals tend to prefer not to fire unless they absolutely have to.

//Though, in all fairness to the criminals, many gun-related crimes don't involve them actually shooting someone, either.

dookdookdook: Sorry, does 34 gun murders per day sound more acceptable?  What is the allowable number of deaths per day in your opinion?



Look, it's OK to put a high value on human life.

It's  not OK to make an argument where you claim that even a single life lost is so unacceptable that it calls for rewriting national policy.  By that standard literally no law could have ever been made, so the argument is about as sensical as saying that we should ban guns because peppermint the walnut casserole.  Dublin!

I mean, we could use this logic to argue that your mother should have had an abortion before you were born, because by existing you contribute to US traffic patterns, and US traffic patterns kill 1000+ people a day.  How many deaths are you going to call acceptable, just so you can selfishly not kill yourself?  How many?
 
2013-02-03 08:13:08 PM
Reported by Fox News.  Why am I not surprised?

I suppose there's a War on the Elderly now.  Or War on Coaches?  War on SOMETHING?
 
2013-02-03 08:13:35 PM
MLK stood for peace. Anywhere they use his name there is violence. Way to respect the man's legacy.........
 
2013-02-03 08:14:05 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: pedrop357: AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.

Why?

What part of the Constitution gives the government the power to make such a law?

The Constitution can be amended. The rules written by a handful of rich, white, racist slaveowners 200 years ago can be changed, and should be changed if they fail to keep up with fundamental changes to our American culture.

It can't be denied that people are outraged and horrified at the sheer volume of gun violence news these days.


Sidetracking your own argument is dumb.
 
2013-02-03 08:14:20 PM

Jim_Callahan: It's not OK to make an argument where you claim that even a single life lost is so unacceptable that it calls for rewriting national policy. By that standard literally no law could have ever been made, so the argument is about as sensical as saying that we should ban guns because peppermint the walnut casserole. Dublin!


34 corpses a day isn't the same as one guy choking to death on a peanut.

Stop making stupid arguments.
 
2013-02-03 08:14:52 PM

FatherChaos: Reported by Fox News.  Why am I not surprised?

I suppose there's a War on the Elderly now.  Or War on Coaches?  War on SOMETHING?


In b4  durrr it isn't Fox News, it's one of their AFFILIATES.
 
2013-02-03 08:15:56 PM

doglover: pussies like soft targets.


That's what she said.
 
2013-02-03 08:17:05 PM

dookdookdook: Haha, sure. "Gang violence" totally isn't a code word for "Black people".


It certainly seems to be in your mind. FYI, there are large numbers of Hispanic, Asian, and White gangs as well.

i660.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-03 08:17:26 PM

pedrop357: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Yeah, I've had that conversation with someone before. We both came to the conclusion that anyone, anywhere CAN be a threat at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. He decided that meant it was OK to shoot someone if you FELT threatened. I decided I would try and retreat to safety (just as I was taught) and only fire on an unarmed person if I had no other choice. He doesn't have a CCW, though, so it won't be an issue for him, most likely. He actually failed the test when he took it. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure he's the same friend of a friend who failed the HSC test the first time he took it, too. Hmmm...

That's scary.  I would think that some kind of disparity of force or inability to retreat would factor in.  If someone wants to beat the crap of of you and won't let you leave-that's justification; same if you try to leave and they pursue.  It's clear as mud, but I think it should need more than just a basic fear.


IIRC, that was part of the training class I took. I could shoot them if I was in danger and had no way to get to safety, even if they were unarmed. I'd rather not shoot anyone at all, ever. Apparently this dude is a bit "different", so I'm glad he failed his CCW test. You're right that his attitude is scary. That's why he's a friend of a friend and not a friend of mine. I'd probably end up having to shoot him some day. ;-p
 
2013-02-03 08:17:42 PM

clambam: iheartscotch: Blah blah blah, guns bad; blah blah blah

It's not a gun control problem; it's a people control problem. Until someone figures out how to either control humanity or breed violence out; we will be a small people; a silly people; barbarous and cruel.

Who shouldn't be allowed unlimited access to guns?


The poor, obviously.  I don't want my tax dollars wasted on non-essentials.
 
2013-02-03 08:17:46 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: Carrying a gun into a school should be a federal offense.

Why?

Shooters are only stopped by guns, and they're pussies.

They pick schools because schools are soft targets and pussies like soft targets.
They kill themselves because bullets hurt and they're too cowardly to face cops.

A better way would be simply to encourage CCW among teachers. Harden the soft targets and the pussies will look for something softer.

Maybe we need less guns and more of these:
[www.sasumata.jp image 400x300]


Those catchpoles kill me. Some are quite clever. The favorite kind I've seen are the ones with a slinky spring around the haft so the victim can't get a grip on the pole and use it against you.

Also, the people who post about how peaceful Japan is when EVERY Japanese school has a weapon or ten stashed in the teacher's room and live training to use them once a year crack me up, too.

But personally I'd rather have guns in American schools maybe. You want them guessing and afraid, because the unknown is the scariest thing to the coward.

Also, glorify suicide like Japanese culture does. In America, people go on sprees. In Japan, those same people jump under trains or off buildings. Their suicide rate and homicide rate are the opposite of ours. Why? Suicide's a sexy way out. Many great stories and examples. Spread it around in the US. Teach people suicide is painless, and they can take or leave it if they choose. Get some of these crazies to put themselves in the ground before their little gardens of evil bear any bitter fruit.
 
2013-02-03 08:18:08 PM
Good for him. 

Should have stayed off the school's lawn as well as his.
 
2013-02-03 08:18:31 PM

dookdookdook: 34 corpses a day isn't the same as one guy choking to death on a peanut.

Stop making stupid arguments.


Short of a full out ban and confiscation on firearms, what do you propose to save even 1 or 2 a day?

Even with a full ban/confiscation, our non-firearm murder rate suggests that most of those would still happen by other means.
 
2013-02-03 08:19:28 PM

iheartscotch: Blah blah blah, guns bad; blah blah blah

It's not a gun control problem; it's a people control problem. Until someone figures out how to either control humanity or breed violence out; we will be a small people; a silly people; barbarous and cruel.


See, that's just it - violence, and its long lost cousin, competition, are inbred into the human psyche. It's not "learned" behavior, it's instinctual. Only own own morality/beliefs and laws keep these behaviors in check.
 
2013-02-03 08:20:09 PM

BigNumber12: FYI, there are large numbers of Hispanic, Asian, and White gangs as well.


FYI other countries have gangs too.

You can't make the argument "Well the American murder rate would be as low as England's murder rate if we factored out all our blacks and mexicans and gangs and schizophrenics (while not doing the same thing for England) therefore Real America doesn't actually have a gun violence problem".

At least not while I, or anyone with some basic logical ability, is present.
 
2013-02-03 08:20:29 PM

Gdalescrboz: SpdrJay: Think of how many muggings we could stop if everyone had their own tactical nuke!

I don't get the nuke argument the left makes. A gun is a precision weapon, a nuke kills indiscriminately. If the left cant see the difference between gun ownership and nuke ownership, their deep has reached critical mass


Those twenty kids in Newtown were sure precisely targeted.

How many people must a weapon be capable of killing before it is "indiscriminate"?
 
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