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(Slate)   Slate columnist slams a Conservative WND "author" who just released a twelve-step book on "How to Choose a Husband," a book that tells women the important skills are "be nice, cook, have sex, and be subservient"   (slate.com) divider line 125
    More: Followup, Conservative WND, Suzanne Venker, WND, family therapies, Steve Harvey, Sheryl Sandberg, other woman, My Big Fat Greek Wedding  
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9802 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Feb 2013 at 4:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-03 05:28:01 PM  
9 votes:
Here's some advice:

1. Your marriage is not a competition.

In so many ways, your marriage is the reverse of everything your life has been up to that point. You are not fighting to win a promotion from (or over) your spouse. You're not fighting to see who has the biggest balls. In fact, In most marriages, the big things you fight for in life (respect, trust, affection) have been won. And like a dog that has been chasing cars for a long time, you don't know what to do when you get it. So if you don't get what he says sometimes, let it go. If you think he does the right thing for the wrong reasons, let it go. If you can see by the look on his stupid face that he thinks your crazy (but he's still doing what you want him to do) let it go. Fighting over all these minor things will keep the two of you from reaching consensus and mutual understanding on any of the really really big things in life.

2. Yes, you have to give up the sex. All the time.

Ever since you got boobs, much of your power over the opposite gender has come from the ability to tug on their libido-strings; soft tugs or tough yanks - you became a mistress of the art. Congrats. While you still have a lot of that going on, you lose your big weapon: Abstinence.  If you withhold sex from your man he WILL stray and you WILL become the enemy. So learn to give him some form of gratification daily. Yes, even on days where you don't feel pretty, or when you feel fat, or when you're on the rag. Find a way to get over that stuff... Because you know what? He's NOT SCREWING all the women in the world every day ... just for you ... no matter what ... even when he's sick, or old, or comatose, or dead. Doing so will tell him that you are on his side, and that even when things are strained and difficult out there, his home is where you are.

3. You're not in 'every other couple' and he's not 'any other husband'

Comparing your marriage to others is totally pointless and can actually be really corrosive to your relationship. Holding your husband to a standard of behavior that he isn't intimately aware of is sadistic. If you feel he isn't acting in a way that "all the other husbands" would, then you either need to discuss the matter with him (because it's clearly bothering you) or drop the requirement. Ultimately, the dynamics of the marriage are  yours to create.
2013-02-03 04:32:16 PM  
7 votes:
I should write a book on how to have a successful relationship. I'll call it "Treat your significant other like a farking person, not like an indentured servant, porcelain doll, or the result of a business transaction."

/Still single.
2013-02-03 02:37:00 PM  
7 votes:
There's nothing wrong with being nice, having sex with your man, and knowing how to cook.  I enjoy all of those things.  That doesn't mean that's all I'm allowed or supposed to do, though.  As for being subservient......fark that noise.  I'm not subservient to my boyfriend and he's not subservient to me.  We're grown adults.

I'm not the least-bit surprised that some barking-at-the-moon simpleton from WND wrote this book.  They're longing for a return to the Eisenhower era, when women and minorities knew their place in the world.
2013-02-03 06:22:12 PM  
6 votes:

Scipio: freeforever: Scipio: I'm not an alpha male who is a dick, but I did play that role. I can tell you it is far more effective than playing the caring individual even if you are sincere as a man.

The truth hurts.

I don't know who that admittance is supposed to hurt, but the fact that women are attracted to that behavior should be a source of concern. Also, I hate to say it, but if I can play that role there is nothing great about people like that. Any idiot can treat others as worthless and assert dominance. I fail to see how any can take pride in such low level behavior. Taking pride in that behavior is the maturity equivalent of taking pride in the size of your feces.


You're right about "alphas", but you couldn't be more wrong about dicks.

"Alphas" are alphas because they are strong and confident, and don't need to feel threatened by anybody.  They're generally nice and personable but tough people.  The dicks are the insecure betas who act like dicks because they don't know anything about status or women, and they think that treating others like shiat will make themselves look important.  This only works on other insecure betas.
2013-02-03 05:09:26 PM  
6 votes:

theorellior: You would think so, but for some reason they decided that it would be better for their children for their mother to post passive-aggressive snark about the burdens of motherhood on Facebook rather than put them in daycare while she has a career doing what she was trained for and good at.


Women who have children because they're "supposed to" and not because they want them are some of the saddest people in the world.
2013-02-03 04:58:36 PM  
6 votes:

freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.


Most secure, adult men are looking for an equal partner, not a replacement for mommy.
2013-02-03 04:26:29 PM  
6 votes:
I'd be happy to be those things once all men who are looking to marry become strong, competent, and even-tempered.
2013-02-03 04:59:03 PM  
5 votes:
I see this kind of thing as a slight against men. At least, against functional men. The idea of gender-exclusive housework is ridiculous. My dad always did the laundry and cleaned the bathroom in the house when I was a kid. I cook, and I'm making goulash (American-ish, but generous with Hungarian paprika and garlic) for dinner, which I'll start as soon as the laundry's done. Why are traditionalists so disrespecting of men that they see them as useless man-babies who can't feed and clothe themselves and need a woman to do "that kind of work?"

/Granted, still single, so don't have anyone else to do laundry, clean bathroom, or cook.
//Likes cooking, though.
///Has been making candy. Going to make Breaking Bad meth candy as soon as he gets a nice pan and a hammer.
2013-02-03 04:23:42 PM  
5 votes:
This wasn't Caitlin Flanagan again, was it? Oh, Venker. Nice quote:

She recently lamented to New York magazine that women no longer "go to college to find a husband; you go to find your own single life and your career."

Fark that noise. I married my wife not because she went to college to get her MRS, I married her because she was a PhD-candidate molecular biologist with a career in science.
2013-02-03 03:26:15 PM  
5 votes:

Kyosuke: How soon until we eliminate gender roles entirely?


Like about a dozen other problems, the first step to the solution will be when the Baby Boomers die.
2013-02-03 05:40:47 PM  
4 votes:

BMFPitt: If you find yourself reading WND for advice on finding a man, or any other reason,please go get your tubes tied immediately.


FTFY
2013-02-03 05:37:36 PM  
4 votes:
If you find yourself reading WND for advice on finding a man, please go get your tubes tied immediately.
2013-02-03 05:33:24 PM  
4 votes:

Ima4nic8or: omeganuepsilon: Here's a fascinating aspect of human nature.  We all have different personalities, and differing advice will work for different people.  Many women are subservient/docile, and many men are typical alpha males.  That is not to say ALL women should be docile, but in an age where we teach ALL women to be "strong/assertive" because of some moral belief, the opposite deserves as much airtime, as it were.

There is no given stereo type that any given person has to fit into.  If you are the type of person who's having troubles in a relationship, it may be wise to try something different.

THIS!!

The wife and I have very much the traditional woman stays at home with kids and cooks and cleans while man works and does all the mechanical work around the house sort of relationship.  Its not because I have somehow force the wife into a subservient role, it is because just is more subservient in nature and is very happy with this type of relationship.  To be honest I have been wanting to get her back to work in order to increase our retirement savings and kids college savings a bit. She, however, just wants to stay at home with the kids. Which will probably be the way it stays for at least a few more years until the kids are at school for full days.


And you think she's the subservient one. How adorable! :-)
2013-02-03 05:18:52 PM  
4 votes:

freeforever: PsiChick: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

1. Feminists abhor cooking and cleaning...because we like  not eating and wallowing in our own filth. Riiight.

2. You left 'fromsex' out of your username. Should go right in the middle there.

No, the guys who don't get sex are the feminists appeasers who don't understand why women are attracted to "jerks" ie., real men.


If you think worm are attracted to jerks, then that just means that you're an insecure beta who doesn't understand why women don't like insecure betas.
2013-02-03 05:11:43 PM  
4 votes:

udhq: The point is that with men who are looking for that kind of a woman, you have to ask the question of whether they had some sort of oedipal sexual attraction to their own mothers.


Or if they're domestically illiterate man-children who are so unable to take care of themselves that they have to prioritize the characteristics of a caregiver over any sort of emotional satisfaction.
2013-02-03 04:51:14 PM  
4 votes:

MattyBlast: This is stupid. No matter how many self-help books there are out there, women are too stupid to heed any of their advice. They want douchebags and will always want douchebags.


By that logic you should be drowning in pussy.
2013-02-03 04:48:11 PM  
4 votes:
Suzanne Venker's aunt is Phyllis Schlafly. This may explain a lot.
2013-02-03 04:26:41 PM  
4 votes:

Coco LaFemme: There's nothing wrong with being nice, having sex with your man, and knowing how to cook.  I enjoy all of those things.  That doesn't mean that's all I'm allowed or supposed to do, though.  As for being subservient......fark that noise.  I'm not subservient to my boyfriend and he's not subservient to me.  We're grown adults.

I'm not the least-bit surprised that some barking-at-the-moon simpleton from WND wrote this book.  They're longing for a return to the Eisenhower era, when women and minorities knew their place in the world.


They long for BDSM. Let's be honest, most of what they describe is just a D\s relationship without the kinky sex (and 'domestic discipline' seems to be their version of that). Which would be fine, if they actually admitted that and used the 'safe, sane, and consensual' motto. Since they aren't, they're gonna have problems.

/I'd probably be a psychotic housewife too if I were in a permanent sub relationship when I didn't have a submissive personality.
2013-02-03 02:25:20 PM  
4 votes:

Spanky McStupid: But she's correct in her assessment of war against men


i575.photobucket.com
2013-02-03 10:46:20 PM  
3 votes:
Here's a novel approach that works very well in my relationship:

We BOTH cook, clean, do chores, communicate, act nice, and have sex (with each other).

We share these things. I love to cook (and I'm very good at it). We both do dishes and laundry. She folds clothes (because I suck at it). I scrub the toilet. She helps me lift heavy things. I help her remove spiders from the home (I don't kill them, but she has a phobia so I escort the arachnids outside).

It's absolutely ridiculous to carve the world up into "man's work" and "woman's work". There are things she can do better than I can that are traditionally "man's work" and there are things that I do better than her that are traditionally "woman's work", and we're happy HELPING each other, SHARING everything including the responsibilities, and being open and communicative.

Frankly, I feel sorry for you people who need gender roles to be so specific and controlled. That kind of thinking usually leads to arguments and resentment.

But hey, if you need to be all Alpha, that's your problem. I'm happy with my life.
2013-02-03 10:13:25 PM  
3 votes:

MattyBlast: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: MattyBlast: This is stupid. No matter how many self-help books there are out there, women are too stupid to heed any of their advice. They want douchebags and will always want douchebags.

By that logic you should be drowning in pussy.

I haven't gotten any in years. I'm a clean-cut professional who doesn't make gang signs, wear my cap sideways, make duck faces, or act like a retard in bars. If I did, then yes, my dick would be getting wet on a regular basis, but because I'm one of those respectful "nice guys," women don't want me.

See hotchickswithdouchebags.com if you think I'm full of shiat.


Huh?
2013-02-03 09:23:41 PM  
3 votes:
The problem for me with this writer is twofold. First that our economic situations don't often allow for a single breadwinner household - both people need to work to pay the bills. Second, the kind of rigidity of thinking she espouses doesn't allow for differences in gender identities or expressions. The great thing about America is you're (somewhat) free to be who you need to be - who you are inside. Talk about the ultimate of freedoms. It's sad to see someone with a narrow outlook on the world encouraging people to remove their own freedoms from themselves and risk the possibility of also pushing them on the people they know - undoubtedly people who all have different gender identities and expressions.
2013-02-03 07:39:24 PM  
3 votes:
Oh, gawd. Is this the thread where everyone starts going on about "alphas" and "negging" and shiat? How about just treating each other with a modicum of decency and respect?

Yeah. I'm sure you're sooooo "alpha" in your WoW guild. I'm sure the other players give you all the best loot. Now piss off.
2013-02-03 07:32:01 PM  
3 votes:

The Bird: Suzanne Venker's aunt is Phyllis Schlafly. This may explain a lot.


Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

Venker is just another "do as I say, not as I do" idiot, who thinks it's perfectly ok for themselves to have a career other than full-time homemaker, but it's those other biatches out there who are destroying the sanctity of marriage by doing the same.

God forbid women should acquire any marketable skills to support themselves and their families, in the event that the hubby has an accident which leaves him dead or disabled, or a midlife crisis which leads to him dump them for his 19 year old secretary.  You can still love someone and do all the nice things to make them happy, yet not remain completely helpless. What kind of a man wants a doormat, anyway? Ugh.
2013-02-03 07:12:28 PM  
3 votes:
freeforever: I never made the "foolish" argument against delaying message.  I'm just speaking the truth:  The longer a woman puts off marriage the shorter her prospects become.  It's not impossible, just harder.


freeforever: Scipio: I'm not an alpha male who is a dick, but I did play that role. I can tell you it is far more effective than playing the caring individual even if you are sincere as a man.

The truth hurts.


Yeah, it's funny how you keep using "the truth" to mean "my opinion."  Ignoring all the other garbage you've been spewing, those two statements in this thread alone are pretty clear warning signs.
2013-02-03 05:51:48 PM  
3 votes:

freeforever: Scipio: I'm not an alpha male who is a dick, but I did play that role. I can tell you it is far more effective than playing the caring individual even if you are sincere as a man.

The truth hurts.


Then don't get in involved with women who are attracted to alpha male dicks.  How hard is that?
2013-02-03 05:49:06 PM  
3 votes:
Things you like about your wife could include, she has sex with you, she is nice, and the can cook.
Things your wife likes about you could include, you have sex with her, you are nice, and you can cook.

sounds pretty ok to me.
2013-02-03 05:35:33 PM  
3 votes:

freeforever: udhq: freeforever: udhq: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

Most secure, adult men are looking for an equal partner, not a replacement for mommy.

Great straw man response there. Unless you have sex with your mother you can't compare a housewife to your mom.

The point is that with men who are looking for that kind of a woman, you have to ask the question of whether they had some sort of oedipal sexual attraction to their own mothers.

No, men who are attracted to "that kind of woman" are so because feminine qualities are more attractive to men than masculine qualities.  Lesser men find value in career women because she can financially support him, but if we're giving advice on finding a husband I assume we're talking about high-value, successful men. Successful men don't care one way or the other how much money a woman makes.  He is not impressed by her Master's degree in gender studies.


Domesticity is a maternal quality, not a feminine one.

The truth is that "lesser men" feel threatened by women with their own lives and successes. They need a power differential to feel in control.

They can't be with a successful woman because that woman would not be his equal, she would be his better.
2013-02-03 05:05:47 PM  
3 votes:

freeforever: Unless you have sex with your mother you can't compare a housewife to your mom.


Ah but you forget, most married farkers are not having sex with their wives.

Or so I am given to understand anyway.
2013-02-03 05:04:13 PM  
3 votes:
I just don't understand why Venker called her book "How to Choose a Husband". It seems awfully presumptuous and inconsistent with a lot of the rest of her views. I guess she figured "How to Make The Most of the Husband Your Father Has Chosen For You" wouldn't sell as well.
2013-02-03 05:01:32 PM  
3 votes:

Giltric: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/31/husbands-housewo r k-sex/1880719/


Women don't want some skirt wearing male at home. They want a real man who knows what a womans role is and what a mans role is.


Ahem.

The study comes with one major caveat: It is based on data collected two decades ago
2013-02-03 04:43:19 PM  
3 votes:

propasaurus: Women are supposed to prance around in heels.


Men should too, from time to time.  Broaden your horizons.

/You better WORK
2013-02-03 04:29:15 PM  
3 votes:
These are the same people who think Muslims hate us for our "freedoms."
2013-02-04 03:49:30 PM  
2 votes:
If some of the Farkers here are half as assholish in real life as they are in comments, they don't deserve a nice wife. They deserve a raging biatch.

I like to think that most of the time, the assholes find and marry each other. Sucks for their kids, but I'm fine with the dickheads being taken out of the dating pool.
2013-02-04 01:16:44 AM  
2 votes:
i can't with this sh*t anymore.  it is so tiresome and insulting.

women are people, not ornaments.  if that is too much for your brain to handle, then kill yourself.
2013-02-04 12:38:36 AM  
2 votes:
Adding to the chorus of not carving a world where it's "men this" and "women that".

Having been married for 17 and together for 20, there are times where you have to flex who does what and why. I'm sorry but I was raised by a Grandmother who insisted that I never settle and that when I married, I should find a partner, not someone to take care of me. Is it nice sometimes? Absolutely, but you have to be there for your mate.

This article works great for hetro relationships, but don't live in a one-size-fits-all world anymore. I want someone to share in my life and all the stuff that goes with it. I'm saddened by friends who have abandoned their dreams of doing X, Y or Z to stay at home and be sub-subservient to their spouse. I have one in particular, who has 5 kids, gave up her college dreams and now home-schools her children in the compound they live on with their church friends. She has a blog where she details all the things she does and how little of it reflects her personal dreams, hopes or wishes. Sorry, that's not the life I would want for myself. If she's happy, then I have to support her and respect her wishes, but don't expect that from me.

/tl;dr -> We're all different, get over it and get on with it.
2013-02-03 11:17:00 PM  
2 votes:

untaken_name: Keizer_Ghidorah: Trollin' trollin' trollin', keep them doggies trollin'.

Think what you want. I'm dead serious. The formula given is one that's worked for thousands of years. Is it fair? I dunno. Is life fair?


So you believe that women are property, should stay in the kitchen, and never think for themselves?
2013-02-03 09:39:40 PM  
2 votes:
I am a feminist. My boyfriend likes the fact that I have a job and help pay for the costs of housing, utilities, food, entertainment, etc.  He does most of the cooking.  Our relationship is good.
2013-02-03 09:36:47 PM  
2 votes:
Oh thanks for the advice on how being subservient and letting a man take care of me will help my love life, woman who is now out touring and shilling her book instead of fulfilling her duties as a wife.
If you really think we should all be at home in the kitchen, keeping our mouths shut, why not lead by example?
2013-02-03 07:52:42 PM  
2 votes:

omeganuepsilon: udhq: You're right about "alphas", but you couldn't be more wrong about dicks.

"Alphas" are alphas because they are strong and confident, and don't need to feel threatened by anybody.  They're generally nice and personable but tough people.  The dicks are the insecure betas who act like dicks because they don't know anything about status or women, and they think that treating others like shiat will make themselves look important.  This only works on other insecure betas.

Now you're just taking the analogy so far that it doesn't fit, wielding a poetic license to fit your personal ideology.

Alpha, as far as describing humans, only denotes a need to be dominant.  You can do this without offending people, or you can be an asshole about it, neither is exclusive to what an alpha is, but the later is more common.

The designation of alpha is but one facet of personality and as such, it has no necessary ties with any other aspect such as you imply.

Males and females can both be dominant, and it can manifest in any number of ways.  sometimes it's simply being competitive(and then only in certain conditions/hobbies), sometimes it's the need to control every little thing.


Nah.  Show me the jock picking on nerds in high school, and I'll show you someone who lives in fear that he's vulnerable to becoming a target.

Being an "alpha" is about a position in a social hierarchy.  It's not about money or power or peacocking.  It's influence.  And in a modern, first words society, you can "dominate" your way to money--and even in a limited, temporary manner, to power--but not to true influence.  Anyone who tries gets stabbed in the back the second they let their guard down.

Show me one political or business leader who has achieved influence without the consent of the social institution they lead.
2013-02-03 07:44:55 PM  
2 votes:

Ima4nic8or: Coco LaFemme: I'm not the least-bit surprised that some barking-at-the-moon simpleton from WND wrote this book.  They're longing for a return to the Eisenhower era, when women and minorities knew their place in the world.

And the problem with that is.....?


It's idiotic.
2013-02-03 06:45:03 PM  
2 votes:

Spanky McStupid: But she's correct in her assessment of war against men.


There's a war against men now in the same way that the Black Panther Party proves that the main conflict of the 1960s was a war against white people, which is to say, you're an idiot.

There isn't a war against men.  If you MUST use a war metaphor, this army of feminazis you imagine is less like an army and more like a small guerrilla action against an occupying force.
2013-02-03 06:26:31 PM  
2 votes:
People who go out with the sole intent of "landing a man" or "finding a mate" amuse me.  There's nothing wrong with being open to it if that's what you want, but why not let it happen organically if you happen to meet someone you like?  I don't understand this mentality of just finding someone for the sake of having someone.  Your expectations are probably very low if you just want a warm body to fill a lonely void (and I'm not talking about those looking for only sex).  What's worse are those looking for someone to have kids with.  They don't say that, they pretend that they are looking for a spouse, but really they are looking for someone of the opposite gender to procreate with.  They should just be upfront about it and hook up together instead of pretending that they're looking for a real romantic relationship.  Of course most of them end up unhappy when they don't get more than just a baby factory/sperm donor.

Meh, maybe I've been lucky, but I've never really had to work hard to find a man.  I've always found plenty of guys who make suitable companions, at least for awhile.  Of course I tend to go out with people I connect with and are best friends with which is easy for me since I tend to have more in common with guys.  When I met my husband I wasn't expecting to fall in love again, but it was the most natural thing in the world and we are truly best friends who basically have a great time together all the time.  It's been like an 8 year slumber party.  But I guess neither of us had some weird expectation about gender roles or what the other should be doing in the relationship.  We just let it flow naturally and it works for us.
2013-02-03 05:50:46 PM  
2 votes:

XveryYpettyZ: So why is it women in their 20s who are the appropriate ornament for successful men? Why wait that long?


Because drinking age is 21.
2013-02-03 05:50:33 PM  
2 votes:

freeforever: Not to mention it's illegal for adults to hook up with minors.


You'd be surprised how many states have age of consent at 16.  And a lot of those allow 14 and 15 year olds to hook up with somebody up to five years older than they are (i.e 19 and 20).
2013-02-03 05:41:58 PM  
2 votes:

udhq: freeforever: udhq: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

Most secure, adult men are looking for an equal partner, not a replacement for mommy.

Great straw man response there. Unless you have sex with your mother you can't compare a housewife to your mom.

The point is that with men who are looking for that kind of a woman, you have to ask the question of whether they had some sort of oedipal sexual attraction to their own mothers.


Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, Sigmund.

Mommy took care of you while you farked other women.  Some men look for the same deal when they get married.
2013-02-03 05:41:11 PM  
2 votes:
The article does do what it says, and that is tell women how to get a man. It just may be a shiatty man. As for the fiery rhetoric against giving this type of advice it is also just as rife with b.s. as the conservative view. Modern feminism has jumped the shark in a lot of ways. Early on it was simply about empowering women to get what they want. What that was. The results were skewed and poor, but they should have expected that since many women during those early days didn't know what they want. I contend they still don't, and hell most men do not either.
Modern feminism now tries to tell women what they want which is a career and independence. Not everyone wants that. Men are still struggling with deciding where in life they should be. The gender roles are b.s. all around, and no one wants to tell the truth which is that people need help figuring out what they want to do. How can you be happy when you try to shoehorn your personality into dogma from either side?
I'm not an alpha male who is a dick, but I did play that role. I can tell you it is far more effective than playing the caring individual even if you are sincere as a man. All I learned from it was what I am not out of the experience. I am not the guy who gives two shiats whether someone I care for comes or goes. I love meeting people and helping them achieve what they want. From learning that about myself, I can say that men tend to do better than women in that arena. I find it much easier to help a male get to where he wants than a woman, and that is simple because most males feel free in a lot of areas to explore and get what they are going after. Society has less of an effect on men. Unfortunately, women have by and large been left out of this. The large majority of women I meet either feel they must be a housewife or a career woman, and pursue that as an end of itself. Articles like this tend to show why which is that women have two voices which tells them to pursue one path or the other. Where is the third voice that says to figure out what you want and get that be what it may?
I think all women should get a basic foundation of education and career independence. This helps prevent abuse and empowers a person, but that should be the end of this advice. After this basic foundation both sexes should be taught to then seek the life they want to have. If this is the advice society preached, then many people would be far more happy.
As a side note, women should be just as aggressive pursuing a mate as a man. The statistics of finding the best person in our society is already against all of us. If half are just sitting on their thumbs waiting to be discovered, why should we be surprised that finding that right person is so insurmountable? As for men, they need to really ask themselves how important is it to find a woman who helps their social status, because if we men are not going for political office there is little real reason to narrow our search based upon this trait. Sadly, yes for men beauty as society defines is the basis for social status of women. Men do need to get over their problem, and likewise women need to get over their problem.
2013-02-03 05:31:27 PM  
2 votes:

rubi_con_man: 2. Yes, you have to give up the sex. All the time.

Ever since you got boobs, much of your power over the opposite gender has come from the ability to tug on their libido-strings;


If only those mean ol womens would stop flaunting their power over us helpless mens.
2013-02-03 05:27:18 PM  
2 votes:

freeforever: XveryYpettyZ: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

In your foolish apparent argument against delaying marriage as an option for women, you apparently buy into delaying marriage for women.  Why wouldn't you say "18 year-old who cooks and cleans" or "16 year-old who cooks and cleans... with parental permission."  After all, it's not as if you need to be in your 20s, out of college, established as an independent adult entity to be nice, cook and have sex.

P.S.  feminists do not abhor cooking and cleaning.  My mother, who is an old-school feminist with a PhD, also cooks and cleans.

I never made the "foolish" argument against delaying message.  I'm just speaking the truth:  The longer a woman puts off marriage the shorter her prospects become.  It's not impossible, just harder. Read any Slate/Huffington Post/Jezzebl/Gawker article on this subject and you'll see dozens of comments from women who can't understand why they've become "invisible" to men after a certain age who only seem interested in younger woman. That's the way it is.  Hot and young beats out older, smart and experienced.


So why is it women in their 20s who are the appropriate ornament for successful men?  Why wait that long?  If the most successful man is the one who can possess the most attractive and helpless woman, then why would you go for somebody that old?  Why not 18?  16?  As soon as they have their first period?  If you're going to have medieval ideas, you might as well be honest about the logical endpoint of those positions.
2013-02-03 05:24:40 PM  
2 votes:

desertfool: I may be a liberal as they come, but I married a nice girl from Mexico who likes to cook, take care of our kid and that I bring home the bacon. I told her that she can work if she wants, but she wants our kid to be a little older before she goes out of the house.

/Knew I would marry her the first day I ate at her parents house. She brought me my meal, her mother brought her fathers meal to the table, and her sister brought her husbands meal.
//I do things around the house as well, cleaning and cooking. We're not strict about it. It's about building a nice life together.


Hey, it's a perfectly nice life if you both want it. The problem is when attitudes preclude any deviation from that formula. Attitudes that force you into specific roles because that's "men's work" and "women's work" and you want to be a "masculine man" or a "feminine woman" or you're worthless. There's no consideration for what people want as people, not as defined things.
2013-02-03 05:21:08 PM  
2 votes:

freeforever: No, men who are attracted to "that kind of woman" are so because feminine qualities are more attractive to men than masculine qualities.  Lesser men find value in career women because she can financially support him, but if we're giving advice on finding a husband I assume we're talking about high-value, successful men.


The thought of seeking out a significant other for emotional satisfaction and relying on yourself for logistical necessities as needed and cooperating as cohabitation becomes a factor doesn't occur to you, does it? It has to be a weird pseudo-economic transaction tinted by academically traditional gender roles treated as if they were physical laws?
2013-02-03 05:18:38 PM  
2 votes:

freeforever: PsiChick: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

1. Feminists abhor cooking and cleaning...because we like  not eating and wallowing in our own filth. Riiight.

2. You left 'fromsex' out of your username. Should go right in the middle there.

No, the guys who don't get sex are the feminists appeasers who don't understand why women are attracted to "jerks" ie., real men.


Keep telling yourself that while you look up lists of states that don't require the woman to bring charges to prosecute domestic violence cases.
2013-02-03 05:18:16 PM  
2 votes:
Here's some more FREE advice:

1. Try to look good for your husband every now and again, i.e., wear make-up occasionally, don't gain a ton of weight, don't wear your husband's clothes or crappy sweats/ratty t-shirts and think that since your married, it doesn't matter what you look like, that your husband's okay with it. Sorry, but we care. We love your personality, but we also want a good-looking woman.

2.  Don't take advantage of having a husband as if he's combination cook/chauffeur/bankroller.  Offer to make a nice breakfast or offer to do something that you know he likes, just to be nice.

3. Try to be fun.  Come up with a fun idea like going to a concert, or going on a trip.  If you're spending almost every night in front of the tube watching re-runs of "The King of Queens" til 11:30 because "You're tired", then your husband is going to be tired of you. It's either going to be xtube or another chick, if you don't get your ass moving and do something interesting.

4. When it comes to sex, it's fun.  We like to have sex, particularly with a pretty girl. So, if you get into bed and just say "Let's just have a quickie", your telling your man that you're not interested in something he likes.  Try wearing something sexy, try getting a wax, do something that shows you WANT to be intimate and that it is not just a task for a fast fark.

I know some women are going to respond that their men are slobs, they just want to get off, they've let themselves go.  Yep, some men just wanna watch ESPN, scratch their balls, drink beer and fart in front of you.  I'm not going to give them advice on how to be a better husband, they will have to figure it out with you or on their own.
2013-02-03 05:15:48 PM  
2 votes:
FTA:
And once you do find a man: Be sweet, give him lots of sex, and don't talk too much.

---

Just about sums it up for me.
Didn't use to have such "old fashinoned" wants in a partner, but after trying relationships with more "modern" women I came to two conclusions:
1) "Equality" is a nice goal in relationships, but become "too equal" and nothing gets dones.  Someone has to drive the boat.  Every relationships needs an HNIC in some form.
2) In my relationships, I am the HNIC.

Inevitably this has lead to seeking out more meek (subservient?) women.  It was worked out better for me personall.  To each their own.
2013-02-03 05:10:09 PM  
2 votes:

freeforever: udhq: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

Most secure, adult men are looking for an equal partner, not a replacement for mommy.

Great straw man response there. Unless you have sex with your mother you can't compare a housewife to your mom.


The point is that with men who are looking for that kind of a woman, you have to ask the question of whether they had some sort of oedipal sexual attraction to their own mothers.
2013-02-03 04:59:14 PM  
2 votes:

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: MattyBlast: This is stupid. No matter how many self-help books there are out there, women are too stupid to heed any of their advice. They want douchebags and will always want douchebags.

By that logic you should be drowning in pussy.


I haven't gotten any in years. I'm a clean-cut professional who doesn't make gang signs, wear my cap sideways, make duck faces, or act like a retard in bars. If I did, then yes, my dick would be getting wet on a regular basis, but because I'm one of those respectful "nice guys," women don't want me.

See hotchickswithdouchebags.com if you think I'm full of shiat.
2013-02-03 04:52:16 PM  
2 votes:
Let the woman cook?  Only if she wants to and is a better cook than me.  If not, then stay out of my kitchen, woman!  I will bring you the sandwich.
2013-02-03 04:43:50 PM  
2 votes:

Gergesa: Not being a business owner I could hardly understand what is needed to get a business started but wouldn't it have made more sense for her to be working while he was trying to get his business going so they could have that income as a cushion?


You would think so, but for some reason they decided that it would be better for their children for their mother to post passive-aggressive snark about the burdens of motherhood on Facebook rather than put them in daycare while she has a career doing what she was trained for and good at.
2013-02-03 04:33:15 PM  
2 votes:
I dont see a problem.  "How to Chose a Husband" seems like a practical book with good advice for any single chick.
2013-02-03 04:08:37 PM  
2 votes:

Mentat: Chapter 5:  Sandwich Making


i232.photobucket.com
2013-02-03 03:41:09 PM  
2 votes:

Bladel: While I'm never going to agree with a WND article, I was once on the receiving end of "Be mean & bossy & no sex," and I am happy to report that this strategy did work out for that particular woman.


Same here.

She thought I was committed and too much in love.  I called her on it and she more or less said that it was time for me to know who she really is.  She thought I was bluffing when I said I wanted out and got meaner.

One of the last straws was a Valentine's Day dinner out.  She lit into me and went through a list of personal criticisms for about five minutes and loud enough for everyone else to hear.  And they did.  I sat there quietly thinking about the best way to dump her.

The boot was given about 24 hours later and I cut all contact.  According to mutual friends, she was a wreck and "couldn't understand where it went wrong."
2013-02-04 02:47:56 PM  
1 votes:

umad: You are the only one bringing up guilt.


That was kinda the point.  Observant.

umad: Guilt has nothing to do with it.


To you.

umad: Men want sex.


It's not all I want, but thanks for speaking for me.

umad: If he doesn't get it where he is currently looking then he will look somewhere else.


I think if you're a boy, accustomed to throwing tantrums when you don't get what you want, then yes, this might be a valid approach.

I don't know for the life of me what person (let alone what woman) would want to marry that, but again, whatever floats your boat.

umad: No amount of misspelt gibberish


umad?

umad: Yep. I'm the idiot


Yes.

Again: umad?
2013-02-04 02:30:04 PM  
1 votes:

umad: Perhaps you can explain how "men want lots of sex" == "women aren't allowed to enjoy sex."


I think you just quoted that explanation.

But hey, if knowing that the only reason you have lots of sex is guilt doesn't bother you, whatever floats your boat.

I don't know many people like that.

umad: Perhaps you can also take a couple of seconds to proofread your posts in the future so you don't look like such an idiot.


Take a few more seconds to read the posts I make and you won't have to ask for explanations I already offered?

*shrug*

umad?
2013-02-04 12:47:03 PM  
1 votes:

rubi_con_man: 2. Yes, you have to give up the sex. All the time.

Ever since you got boobs, much of your power over the opposite gender has come from the ability to tug on their libido-strings; soft tugs or tough yanks - you became a mistress of the art. Congrats. While you still have a lot of that going on, you lose your big weapon: Abstinence. If you withhold sex from your man he WILL stray and you WILL become the enemy. So learn to give him some form of gratification daily. Yes, even on days where you don't feel pretty, or when you feel fat, or when you're on the rag. Find a way to get over that stuff... Because you know what? He's NOT SCREWING all the women in the world every day ... just for you ... no matter what ... even when he's sick, or old, or comatose, or dead. Doing so will tell him that you are on his side, and that even when things are strained and difficult out there, his home is where you are.


So- under threat of betrayal- have moar sex.

Sounds legit.  Not to mention a great way to enjoy sex- for either party, come to think of it:

Woman: The only reason I do this is so he doesn't cheat on me.
Man: The only reason she does this is so I don't cheat on her.


Yep, that's surely the cornerstoen of any greta romantic relationship.  But then, I like my spouse to, yanno, actually derive pleasure out of our sexy-times.  I am strange like that.
2013-02-04 11:57:42 AM  
1 votes:

freeforever: I never made the "foolish" argument against delaying message.  I'm just speaking the truth:  The longer a  woman

person puts off marriage the shorter her prospects become.  It's not impossible, just harder. Read any Slate/Huffington Post/Jezzebl/Gawker article on this subject and you'll see dozens of comments from women who can't understand why they've become "invisible" to men after a certain age who only seem interested in younger woman. That's the way it is.  Hot and young beats out older, smart and experienced. more they realize how stupid marriage is.

FTFY
2013-02-04 09:04:29 AM  
1 votes:
"HOW TO KEEP A HUSBAND"

Always keep his stomach full, his ego boosted and his balls empty.

A reply from a great grandmother married over 60 years to a newlywed great grand daughter.
2013-02-04 01:52:54 AM  
1 votes:

Atreyou40: Kyosuke: How soon until we eliminate gender roles entirely?

When there are no different genders I suppose.


Or, when people become smart enough to view one another as individuals, rather than assign them attributes based on convenient, pre-determined categorizations.

One or the other.
2013-02-04 01:12:32 AM  
1 votes:

Scipio: Modern feminism now tries to tell women what they want which is a career and independence.


No it doesn't.  It presents that as an option.
2013-02-04 01:06:21 AM  
1 votes:

fat_free: I'm not going to give them advice on how to be a better husband


Then STFU and GTFO.  Nobody cares about your advice to women.
2013-02-04 12:27:41 AM  
1 votes:
Men and women are different. Men and women have different roles in a relationship. These roles are equally important. This is not stereotyping, it's nature.
2013-02-03 10:46:49 PM  
1 votes:

xen0blue: Actually, I think she's correct at all levels. Any guy who disagrees is too pussywhipped to admit it.


untaken_name: Sounds like good advice. I mean, if you actually want to find a husband and be happy, that is. If you prefer the company of your power skirts and cats, then do the opposite of what she suggests.


Trollin' trollin' trollin', keep them doggies trollin'.
2013-02-03 09:12:59 PM  
1 votes:
I guess this is what the publishing industry has come to. Regurgitated imaginary marital advice from the 50s put through a food processor and then run through the steam cycle on the dryer and finally scraped onto a page and shoved between two book covers.

Find someone who makes you laugh and thinks you are wonderful. Give them lots of kisses.

If you are in love with a man - give them lots of blow jobs it seems to make them really happy.

If you are in love with a woman find her G-spot and tell her how gorgeous she is. Women need to hear that still unfortunately.

As for the rest of it just work it out. Life isn't tidy and it's pretty rare when RL circumstances coincide with your fantasies.
2013-02-03 08:28:47 PM  
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: udhq: Nah.

Whatever.  Knowledge and observation  > your inane guesses as to what words mean and how society works.


I don't think you read/understood my post. I said "Show me one political or business leader who has achieved influence without the consent of the social institution they lead."

That was an invitation for you to share the "knowledge and observation" you claim.

That fact that you decline to do so says more than your actual response.
2013-02-03 08:12:49 PM  
1 votes:
megarian:
Women + cooking - clothing = hawt


I'm thinking you don't eat a lot of deep fried food.  That stuff splatters!
2013-02-03 07:11:01 PM  
1 votes:

Bloody William: freeforever: No, the guys who don't get sex are the feminists appeasers who don't understand why women are attracted to "jerks" ie., real men.

What does that have to do with being able to cook and clean for yourself?

And... "appeasers?" Really?


You're talking to either a troll or someone who's convinced that he's the swellest guy in the world and can't understand who no one likes him when he lashes out and insults everyone.
2013-02-03 07:08:40 PM  
1 votes:

freeforever: Scipio: I'm not an alpha male who is a dick, but I did play that role. I can tell you it is far more effective than playing the caring individual even if you are sincere as a man.

The truth hurts.


imgs.xkcd.com
2013-02-03 07:04:41 PM  
1 votes:

Ima4nic8or: omeganuepsilon: Here's a fascinating aspect of human nature.  We all have different personalities, and differing advice will work for different people.  Many women are subservient/docile, and many men are typical alpha males.  That is not to say ALL women should be docile, but in an age where we teach ALL women to be "strong/assertive" because of some moral belief, the opposite deserves as much airtime, as it were.

There is no given stereo type that any given person has to fit into.  If you are the type of person who's having troubles in a relationship, it may be wise to try something different.

THIS!!

The wife and I have very much the traditional woman stays at home with kids and cooks and cleans while man works and does all the mechanical work around the house sort of relationship.  Its not because I have somehow force the wife into a subservient role, it is because just is more subservient in nature and is very happy with this type of relationship.  To be honest I have been wanting to get her back to work in order to increase our retirement savings and kids college savings a bit. She, however, just wants to stay at home with the kids. Which will probably be the way it stays for at least a few more years until the kids are at school for full days.


Good for you. The problem is when people think ALL women should be like that, whether they want to or not, because they're afraid of women being equal to men for whatever traditional, religious, or personal reason they use.

How about we grow up as a society and stop seeing women as nothing more than weak little trophies to be bred and stuffed into a home with no say in her own life?
2013-02-03 05:54:03 PM  
1 votes:

freeforever: Scipio: I'm not an alpha male who is a dick, but I did play that role. I can tell you it is far more effective than playing the caring individual even if you are sincere as a man.

The truth hurts.


I don't know who that admittance is supposed to hurt, but the fact that women are attracted to that behavior should be a source of concern. Also, I hate to say it, but if I can play that role there is nothing great about people like that. Any idiot can treat others as worthless and assert dominance. I fail to see how any can take pride in such low level behavior. Taking pride in that behavior is the maturity equivalent of taking pride in the size of your feces.
2013-02-03 05:48:21 PM  
1 votes:

L.D. Ablo: Bladel: While I'm never going to agree with a WND article, I was once on the receiving end of "Be mean & bossy & no sex," and I am happy to report that this strategy did work out for that particular woman.

Same here.

She thought I was committed and too much in love.  I called her on it and she more or less said that it was time for me to know who she really is.  She thought I was bluffing when I said I wanted out and got meaner.

One of the last straws was a Valentine's Day dinner out.  She lit into me and went through a list of personal criticisms for about five minutes and loud enough for everyone else to hear.  And they did.  I sat there quietly thinking about the best way to dump her.

The boot was given about 24 hours later and I cut all contact.  According to mutual friends, she was a wreck and "couldn't understand where it went wrong."


hotcrazy.jpg

Also, many people fail to understand the running joke that men are supposed to be subservient and do everything they can to make there wife happy to have a lasting marriage. Chris Rock, and hell every comedian, has gone on at length about it.

Of course, that reality isn't sexist at all, right?
2013-02-03 05:47:27 PM  
1 votes:

Scipio: I'm not an alpha male who is a dick, but I did play that role. I can tell you it is far more effective than playing the caring individual even if you are sincere as a man.


The truth hurts.
2013-02-03 05:35:25 PM  
1 votes:
How is that bad advice?  just because the book should be directed at both men and women instead of just women does not mean it's wrong.
2013-02-03 05:29:35 PM  
1 votes:

Gergesa: theorellior: PsiChick: /I'd probably be a psychotic housewife too if I were in a permanent sub relationship when I didn't have a submissive personality.

I gotta FB friend from back in college, a trained lawyer, who became a stay-at-home mother so her husband could start up a company reselling electricity to their fellow Texans. I don't know why anyone thought that was a good idea. Her FB pages basically describe the arc of a capable woman who's being slowly driven bugfark by dealing with small children all day. I try to help by puncturing her more Teatardish posts with snark.

Not being a business owner I could hardly understand what is needed to get a business started but wouldn't it have made more sense for her to be working while he was trying to get his business going so they could have that income as a cushion?


Would work if they put the kids up for adoption.
2013-02-03 05:27:22 PM  
1 votes:

platkat: udhq: platkat: I'd be happy to be those things once all men who are looking to marry become strong, competent, and even-tempered.

The problem is that us men who are strong, competent and even tempered are not necessarily looking to marry.

It's not just women who were put out by the transactional nature of traditional marriage.

And there are plenty of kind, caring, and sex-loving women who don't want to get married. (I'll use myself as an example, but there are many women like me.) I don't like the fact that every "how-to" book on marriage is aimed at women. I seem to encounter throngs of men who want to marry and have kids, but don't examine what they need to do in order to be a good husband and father.


Interesting. Of myself and most of my friends, all young professional guys, most of us are open to marriage, but not necessarily looking for it.

But you'd be amazed at how many dates I've been on that have ended almost immediately once I admitted as such.
2013-02-03 05:25:14 PM  
1 votes:

freeforever: PsiChick: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

1. Feminists abhor cooking and cleaning...because we like  not eating and wallowing in our own filth. Riiight.

2. You left 'fromsex' out of your username. Should go right in the middle there.

No, the guys who don't get sex are the feminists appeasers who don't understand why women are attracted to "jerks" ie., real men.


Hmmm...MRA, PUA, or both?
2013-02-03 05:23:51 PM  
1 votes:

XveryYpettyZ: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

In your foolish apparent argument against delaying marriage as an option for women, you apparently buy into delaying marriage for women.  Why wouldn't you say "18 year-old who cooks and cleans" or "16 year-old who cooks and cleans... with parental permission."  After all, it's not as if you need to be in your 20s, out of college, established as an independent adult entity to be nice, cook and have sex.

P.S.  feminists do not abhor cooking and cleaning.  My mother, who is an old-school feminist with a PhD, also cooks and cleans.


I never made the "foolish" argument against delaying message.  I'm just speaking the truth:  The longer a woman puts off marriage the shorter her prospects become.  It's not impossible, just harder. Read any Slate/Huffington Post/Jezzebl/Gawker article on this subject and you'll see dozens of comments from women who can't understand why they've become "invisible" to men after a certain age who only seem interested in younger woman. That's the way it is.  Hot and young beats out older, smart and experienced.
2013-02-03 05:22:31 PM  
1 votes:
corn-bread:
2) In my relationships, I am the HNIC.

i105.photobucket.com
You're Don Cherry?
2013-02-03 05:19:49 PM  
1 votes:

propasaurus: Women are supposed to prance around in heels.


You can't prance in heels; these are for prancing!

i00.i.aliimg.com
2013-02-03 05:18:26 PM  
1 votes:
I may be a liberal as they come, but I married a nice girl from Mexico who likes to cook, take care of our kid and that I bring home the bacon. I told her that she can work if she wants, but she wants our kid to be a little older before she goes out of the house.

/Knew I would marry her the first day I ate at her parents house. She brought me my meal, her mother brought her fathers meal to the table, and her sister brought her husbands meal.
//I do things around the house as well, cleaning and cooking. We're not strict about it. It's about building a nice life together.
2013-02-03 05:16:44 PM  
1 votes:

udhq: freeforever: udhq: freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.

Most secure, adult men are looking for an equal partner, not a replacement for mommy.

Great straw man response there. Unless you have sex with your mother you can't compare a housewife to your mom.

The point is that with men who are looking for that kind of a woman, you have to ask the question of whether they had some sort of oedipal sexual attraction to their own mothers.


No, men who are attracted to "that kind of woman" are so because feminine qualities are more attractive to men than masculine qualities.  Lesser men find value in career women because she can financially support him, but if we're giving advice on finding a husband I assume we're talking about high-value, successful men. Successful men don't care one way or the other how much money a woman makes.  He is not impressed by her Master's degree in gender studies.
2013-02-03 05:16:43 PM  
1 votes:

edmo: One Federal agency recently presented its employees with a slide show on proper business dress and helpfully pointed out that women should wear makeup so they would look more attractive. I've obviously been sent to a lot more HR classes than they have.

I think the Good Old Days crowd would love to return to the Mad Men era.


Sounds like good career advice. Attractive people who dress to be taken seriously rise faster and farther in general.

I'm offended that they offered men no makeup advice.  Why they trying to put men at a disadvantage?
2013-02-03 05:15:53 PM  
1 votes:

freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.


In your foolish apparent argument against delaying marriage as an option for women, you apparently buy into delaying marriage for women.  Why wouldn't you say "18 year-old who cooks and cleans" or "16 year-old who cooks and cleans... with parental permission."  After all, it's not as if you need to be in your 20s, out of college, established as an independent adult entity to be nice, cook and have sex.

P.S.  feminists do not abhor cooking and cleaning.  My mother, who is an old-school feminist with a PhD, also cooks and cleans.
2013-02-03 05:14:27 PM  
1 votes:

freeforever: No, the guys who don't get sex are the feminists appeasers who don't understand why women are attracted to "jerks" ie., real men.


What does that have to do with being able to cook and clean for yourself?

And... "appeasers?" Really?
2013-02-03 05:12:46 PM  
1 votes:

udhq: platkat: I'd be happy to be those things once all men who are looking to marry become strong, competent, and even-tempered.

The problem is that us men who are strong, competent and even tempered are not necessarily looking to marry.

It's not just women who were put out by the transactional nature of traditional marriage.


And there are plenty of kind, caring, and sex-loving women who don't want to get married. (I'll use myself as an example, but there are many women like me.) I don't like the fact that every "how-to" book on marriage is aimed at women. I seem to encounter throngs of men who want to marry and have kids, but don't examine what they need to do in order to be a good husband and father.
2013-02-03 05:09:45 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: Kyosuke: How soon until we eliminate gender roles entirely?

Like about a dozen other problems, the first step to the solution will be when the Baby Boomers die.


I don't see how you can blame the existance of gender roles on the Boomers.  Hell, aren't the Boomers usually blamed for destroying the nuclear family in the first place?
2013-02-03 05:09:37 PM  
1 votes:
There is a lot of Steve Harvey in Suzanne Venker's new book, How To Choose a Husband,

That's as far as I read. This is what's wrong with America today, that butthead writers quote obnoxious game show hosts like they are learned people. Ain't no wonder that people are so farked up nowadays, what with this crapola going on. Go play in traffic, Allison Benedikt.
2013-02-03 05:09:20 PM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: To be fair, that will in fact get you a husband, so the book at least isn't advertising falsely.

I mean, I'd question the wisdom of picking that as a primary goal worth suppressing entire aspects of your personality to achieve, but if that's really something you want that much I guess go for it.  Plus, it won't get you a  specific husband, just a husband in general, because there's always someone out there that just wants kids and someone to help raise them more than the disney-style soul-mate thing.


It really seems dehumanizing, or at least deindividualizing. It diminished personal identity by putting such emphasis on finding  any suitor, not a person with whom you have a deep personal, emotional, and intellectual bond. At the risk of sounding woobie, it takes love out of the equation and makes the entire thing seem rather... Victorian.
2013-02-03 05:07:01 PM  
1 votes:
To be fair, that will in fact get you a husband, so the book at least isn't advertising falsely.

I mean, I'd question the wisdom of picking that as a primary goal worth suppressing entire aspects of your personality to achieve, but if that's really something you want that much I guess go for it.  Plus, it won't get you a  specific husband, just a husband in general, because there's always someone out there that just wants kids and someone to help raise them more than the disney-style soul-mate thing.
2013-02-03 05:02:48 PM  
1 votes:

L.D. Ablo: Bladel: While I'm never going to agree with a WND article, I was once on the receiving end of "Be mean & bossy & no sex," and I am happy to report that this strategy did work out for that particular woman.

Same here.

She thought I was committed and too much in love.  I called her on it and she more or less said that it was time for me to know who she really is.  She thought I was bluffing when I said I wanted out and got meaner.

One of the last straws was a Valentine's Day dinner out.  She lit into me and went through a list of personal criticisms for about five minutes and loud enough for everyone else to hear.  And they did.  I sat there quietly thinking about the best way to dump her.

The boot was given about 24 hours later and I cut all contact.  According to mutual friends, she was a wreck and "couldn't understand where it went wrong."


Sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship. You are well out of it.
2013-02-03 05:01:32 PM  
1 votes:
I got a kick out of the stuff towards the bottom about feminists and the woman's view on gender differences and equal pay.

/jaded from having female instructors in college who constantly preached about how hard life is for women, the glass ceiling, yadayadayada (no matter WHAT class it was).
//at a branch of my college they had an outspoken feminist dean who hired about 80%/20% female instructors, started and held a womans conference every year, told a male instructor he was the wrong gender to be tenured....she is no longer employed but fark all that
2013-02-03 05:01:10 PM  
1 votes:

freeforever: Typical feminist overreaction to solid advice about finding a husband.  Sorry, but men like young, feminine women.  It's biological and will never change.  Young women in their 20s who cook, clean and do all that girly stuff feminists abhor WILL ALWAYS BE MORE ATTRACTIVE to men than 30-40 year-old career women with double Master's degrees and years of work experience that men of any value don't give a fark about.

Women are free to pursue their dreams and go to school and compete with men in the work force.  Just be prepared for how quickly your pool of potential suitors shrinks when you delay marriage.


1. Feminists abhor cooking and cleaning...because we like  not eating and wallowing in our own filth. Riiight.

2. You left 'fromsex' out of your username. Should go right in the middle there.
2013-02-03 05:00:50 PM  
1 votes:
Fine advice, if applied to both sexes. I expect my wife appreciates me being nice, able to cook, and ready with the sexy time. Quid pro quo.
2013-02-03 04:55:27 PM  
1 votes:

alice_600: Ya know I tried everything to find someone and I never did find them. But I do agree on this statement made in this Psychology Today article on the War on Men.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-urban-scientist/201212/how-w in -the-war-men?page=3

"The quote of Venker's men that "Women aren't women anymore" is not an insult directed at an individual, but a man-language way of saying, "If you like men, and you prefer me specifically, not just as an individual, but as a man - if you make me feel excited and honored to be a man - then yes, I definitely feel like committing to you... And marriage is the way we can celebrate that." "


My God that article was poorly written.  Someone else can debate the merits but as far as writing goes it was awful.
2013-02-03 04:50:31 PM  
1 votes:
Do we HAVE to have this conversation now?  The game's about to start!
2013-02-03 04:45:27 PM  
1 votes:
There are women like that left? I thought the Feminazis had gotten rid of them all. "After your spa treatment today we're going to finish up with a nice, relaxing Zyklon B shower that's scented with bitter almonds."
2013-02-03 04:44:44 PM  
1 votes:

platkat: I'd be happy to be those things once all men who are looking to marry become strong, competent, and even-tempered.


The problem is that us men who are strong, competent and even tempered are not necessarily looking to marry.

It's not just women who were put out by the transactional nature of traditional marriage.
2013-02-03 04:44:39 PM  
1 votes:
5. Don't be unattractive.
2013-02-03 04:44:23 PM  
1 votes:

theorellior: PsiChick: /I'd probably be a psychotic housewife too if I were in a permanent sub relationship when I didn't have a submissive personality.

I gotta FB friend from back in college, a trained lawyer, who became a stay-at-home mother so her husband could start up a company reselling electricity to their fellow Texans. I don't know why anyone thought that was a good idea. Her FB pages basically describe the arc of a capable woman who's being slowly driven bugfark by dealing with small children all day. I try to help by puncturing her more Teatardish posts with snark.


Yikes. See, even if my DNA wasn't utter shiat this is a huge part of why I'd never reproduce--I'd probably shoot myself if I had to deal with children that much.
2013-02-03 04:42:28 PM  
1 votes:
You can lose the subserviant part, but likes to fark and knows how to make sammiches are important
2013-02-03 04:40:31 PM  
1 votes:
cdn.ebaumsworld.com
2013-02-03 04:40:31 PM  
1 votes:

theorellior: PsiChick: /I'd probably be a psychotic housewife too if I were in a permanent sub relationship when I didn't have a submissive personality.

I gotta FB friend from back in college, a trained lawyer, who became a stay-at-home mother so her husband could start up a company reselling electricity to their fellow Texans. I don't know why anyone thought that was a good idea. Her FB pages basically describe the arc of a capable woman who's being slowly driven bugfark by dealing with small children all day. I try to help by puncturing her more Teatardish posts with snark.


Not being a business owner I could hardly understand what is needed to get a business started but wouldn't it have made more sense for her to be working while he was trying to get his business going so they could have that income as a cushion?
2013-02-03 04:39:57 PM  
1 votes:
Thanks for giving that WND farktard free advertising, Slate.
2013-02-03 04:39:41 PM  
1 votes:

Bloody William: I should write a book on how to have a successful relationship. I'll call it "Treat your significant other like a farking person, not like an indentured servant, porcelain doll, or the result of a business transaction."

/Still single.


You're basically right. I would add have sex often, don't be afraid to act stupid with one another, and don't be afraid to apologize when you're wrong.
2013-02-03 04:38:38 PM  
1 votes:
...As a card-carrying conservative who is married to a smart, strong and hot liberal woman, please let me apologize for this book.  We're not all like that, really,.
2013-02-03 04:35:03 PM  
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: I'm not the least-bit surprised that some barking-at-the-moon simpleton from WND wrote this book.  They're longing for a return to the Eisenhower era, when women and minorities knew their place in the world.


And the problem with that is.....?
2013-02-03 04:35:00 PM  
1 votes:
Here's a fascinating aspect of human nature.  We all have different personalities, and differing advice will work for different people.  Many women are subservient/docile, and many men are typical alpha males.  That is not to say ALL women should be docile, but in an age where we teach ALL women to be "strong/assertive" because of some moral belief, the opposite deserves as much airtime, as it were.

There is no given stereo type that any given person has to fit into.  If you are the type of person who's having troubles in a relationship, it may be wise to try something different.
2013-02-03 04:34:37 PM  
1 votes:

Bladel: While I'm never going to agree with a WND article, I was once on the receiving end of "Be mean & bossy & no sex," and I am happy to report that this strategy did work out for that particular woman.


True enough, but the author fails when it suggests that would be just fine-and-dandy if the man was in control.  Mean + Bossy + Withholding Sex = Unhealthy Relationship, regardless of whether it's the man or the woman who is acting that way.  Unless you're into that sort of thing, of course (NTTAWWT), but even then, that probably disqualifies the "no sex" part of the equation.
2013-02-03 04:33:26 PM  
1 votes:

theorellior: This wasn't Caitlin Flanagan again, was it? Oh, Venker. Nice quote:

She recently lamented to New York magazine that women no longer "go to college to find a husband; you go to find your own single life and your career."

Fark that noise. I married my wife not because she went to college to get her MRS, I married her because she was a PhD-candidate molecular biologist with a career in science.


When telling her this, don't forget to also say "and because I love you".
2013-02-03 04:00:38 PM  
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: There's nothing wrong with being nice, having sex with your man, and knowing how to cook.  I enjoy all of those things.


I enjoy being nice and cooking.  I haven't yet tried having sex with your man, but since you recommend it...
2013-02-03 03:33:02 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: Kyosuke: How soon until we eliminate gender roles entirely?

Like about a dozen other problems, the first step to the solution will be when the Baby Boomers die.


It's obvious WE need to start a war somewhere inhospitable and get all drafty on your ass, Junior
2013-02-03 02:54:33 PM  
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: There's nothing wrong with being nice, having sex with your man, and knowing how to cook.


Those are all positive things. If he likes porn, it also helps to rub his balls and talk dirty to him while he watches it. Learning a few favorite ingredients for dishes is nice, and make sure there's an equitable division of labor overall in the household.
2013-02-03 02:52:33 PM  
1 votes:
Women are supposed to prance around in heels.
2013-02-03 02:42:08 PM  
1 votes:
While I'm never going to agree with a WND article, I was once on the receiving end of "Be mean & bossy & no sex," and I am happy to report that this strategy did work out for that particular woman.
2013-02-03 02:39:06 PM  
1 votes:
One Federal agency recently presented its employees with a slide show on proper business dress and helpfully pointed out that women should wear makeup so they would look more attractive. I've obviously been sent to a lot more HR classes than they have.

I think the Good Old Days crowd would love to return to the Mad Men era.
2013-02-03 01:34:39 PM  
1 votes:

Spanky McStupid: Hell, except for the "nice" part and the "sex" part, it describes the perfect date for FARK.


Fixed to better conform with most farkers' reality.

I don't give a shiat about subservient. Take that part out and add more sex.
2013-02-03 01:02:14 PM  
1 votes:
But she's correct in her assessment of war against men.  Besides, what's so terrible about being nice, cooking, and having sex?  Hell, except for the "nice" part, it describes the perfect date for FARK.
 
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