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(The New York Times)   Because they can   (nytimes.com) divider line 29
    More: Obvious, American Justice, racial minorities, expletives, State Supreme Court in Brooklyn, New York City Police Department  
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15485 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Feb 2013 at 1:53 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-03 02:02:24 PM  
4 votes:
Anytime someone calls police heroes I laugh my ass off. They rarely save lives during a crime... 99% of the time they are there well after the crime has occurred and just do paperwork. Their main job is to bring revenue to the city via tickets and the for-profit prisons we have.
2013-02-03 12:04:05 PM  
4 votes:
That's actually a pretty good article.

The incentive IS there to lie, through artificial quotas and financial incentives such as property forfeitures. Especially since it's all for the greater good.

/the greater good
2013-02-03 02:16:13 PM  
3 votes:
I had no defense but my word against six police officer's pre-trial testimony until one slipped up and mentioned that they had a video that hadn't been introduced as evidence. I mean, really, why would you when it contradicted everything they said.

After the judge reviewed it the case was dismissed but it cost me $3500 in attorney fees up to that point. There were no consequences for the police.

Their impunity from perjury is a huge problem. My opinion is that we wouldn't have so many civil suits against PD's if they'd prosecute them when they break the law.
2013-02-03 02:15:41 PM  
3 votes:
How nice of the NYT to finally admit what leftists and marijuana advocates have been saying since, oh, 1966: cops routinely plant drugs on you and lie about it.

The fact that this common knowledge might be news to some people is a frightening indicator of the failure of mass education to produce critical thinkers, a basic element in any democratic republic. People who routinely and habitually believe everything a cop says are too stupid to be allowed to drive or have kids, let alone vote or serve on a jury. Authority Figures should be approached with more skepticism and treated as people with increased incentive to lie and befudddle.

It's not that most Americans are born idiots, it's that our current system strongly encourages idiocy in most people, which by age 18 is usually so ingrained that it cannot be unlearned. And don't imagine that "higher education" can cure it: the vast majority of Ameruca's elected politicians and unelected appartchiks have at least a college degree, and there are few intellectual titans among them.

And why? If hoi polloi are taught to be stupid and gullible they will be incapable of understanding how and why they're being farked over, let alone frame a coherent challenge to the "Thrones and Dominions."
2013-02-03 02:15:05 PM  
3 votes:
So, most cops are the same type of people who would be in prison if they didn't have a badge. Got it.
2013-02-03 02:07:24 PM  
3 votes:

Chach: Oh good! Cop hate thread! Can never get too many of these on FARK.


Because the tenor of the article was so rabid!  If you cannot see that there is something rotten with law enforcement in the United States these days, you're delusional.  The increased emphasis on paramilitary tactics and weapons rather than the old style of de-escalation and problem solving is killing trust in LEOs.  Even in people like me who have never had a particularly negative interaction with the police.
2013-02-03 02:19:01 PM  
2 votes:
Easy enough problem to solve.  Two items:

1./ Stop doing the "hand on the Bible" thing while promising to tell the truth.  Everyone gets hooked up to a polygraph while on the stand.  Yes, there will be people who will beat it and there will be people who will false positive...but those numbers will be lower than the ones generated by everyone who is lying on the stand.  You want perfection?  You can't have it.  You want more truth (or be able to tell when what you're hearing isn't true), this does that.

2./ Start handing out serious effing sentences for perjury.  Having a witness verbally fence with the prosecutor and judge over the definition of "is" is farking stupid.  If you lie on the stand, you've committed perjury.  Period.  And now you go to jail.  Period.  Imagine how many cops will want to run the risk of going to jail such that they think lying on the stand is an option.  I'd imagine not very many.
2013-02-03 01:50:11 PM  
2 votes:
I think I see an arrest in the future of this author.
2013-02-03 01:32:40 PM  
2 votes:
Obligatory. Glad I could post this early. You never talk to the police. Exercise your right to silence and lawyer up if you need to. The one time I dealt with a cop questioning me went poorly, and his police report was substandard. He even got my first name wrong in the report even though it should have been kind of easy to remember, we both had the same first name. Nice of him to get basic facts wrong, like my name (and I gave him my driver's license so he had the info!). The rest of his report left out other important facts.

I was lucky in that instead of my case being sent to court, it went before a magistrate who's decision spared me a criminal record and further lawyer costs. But in general I'd be wary of police.
2013-02-04 06:41:42 PM  
1 votes:

Rent Party: Awesome T-Shirt: Rent Party: albatros183:
So here you go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

So your evidence that CEOs can land you in the poke is a corrupt judge?

You're an idiot.  Really.  Don't breed, dude.  You are exactly what is wrong with the world.

You asked, and he/she presented you with a valid case of it happening, so you become upset and resort to childish name-calling.

No, he didn't provide a valid case of it happening.  He provided a case of a corrupt judge, like police, armed with the power of the state to imprison you.   Remove the judge and how far does this go?   If anything he proved my point.

I take it you're not so smart, either.


By the CEO paying the judge, the judge is technically working for the CEO. Remove the CEO and see how far it goes.

Also, a final point unrelated to yours, the NYT author  asks whether jurors would be predisposed to believe a guy in an orange jumpsuit or two clean-cut, well-dressed police officers.

The US Supreme Court answered that question almost a century ago, if memory serves, ruling that a defendant wearing traditional prison garb to trial is, in fact, prejudicial to the jury. The only times traditional prison garb is allowed are when there is NO jury present -- preliminary hearings before a judge, motions, etc. The author should be intelligent enough to have known this, but deliberately lied to paint an image in the reader's mind.
2013-02-03 06:17:57 PM  
1 votes:
It's not as easy as putting it all on the cops, unfortunately. They lie because they get away with it...because most juries instinctively believe cops. So part of it is on the jury and the jury system. Put a guy on the stand in his uniform with ribbons all over it and identify him as Officer So&so with 14 years on the force, and the jury will believe him if he says he saw the defendant shooting heroin from 95 yards away in a dark alley from a moving patrol car at night. Who's more at fault here, the cop for lying or the jury for nodding stupidly and saying "Yep, it could be true?"

Cops also lie because society really really wants to put bad guys in prison and doesn't much care how they get there. It's all well and good to blast cops for lying; but how many people even right here on Fark will get upset when they learn about murderers, rapists and assorted thugs who had to be released due to lack of evidence? Or get mad when killers they were sure were guilty "get off" because the jury just couldn't be convinced? Well guess what, the cops are the ones who ultimately feel that pressure.

They also lie because of frustration, the same frustration some people have expressed right here on Fark. Sometimes, the suspect is so obviously guilty of a crime, and yet is so obviously not going to go to jail, the temptation to lie to make sure he goes to jail is just overwhelming. Like when they pull you over for speeding and your car reeks of marijuana and you can't string two words together without giggling uncontrollably between syllables and yet--somehow--you pass the field sobriety test. Easy to say they should let your stinking drunk wasted ass go and hope you don't kill anyone on the way home OR they could "find" some pot in your back seat. I'm not saying that's right, but it happens. Just like you wish your neighbor would leave the door open so the cops could actually SEE that meth lab when you call for the noise complaint. Oopsie!

If lawyers knew how to read police reports, a lot of this testilying would vanish, because they would know to ask, for instance, "So, officer Jones, did you see that pot on the car seat the first time you walked up to the vehicle or the second time?" instead of leaving it at "This officer saw the pot in plain view on the back seat of the vehicle when he approached the car." Hell, I could start a business teaching defense attorneys how to dissect police reports and probably cut testilying in half in a week (and spend years in prison after that). But people would rather just try to stop cop lying at the back end instead of at the front and hate on cops. Go for it.

Now I gotta go watch the Niners win the Superbowl.
2013-02-03 03:34:10 PM  
1 votes:
They will act a lot better when they are the only Americans with guns.
2013-02-03 03:07:13 PM  
1 votes:

NotoriousFire: machoprogrammer: They rarely save lives during a crime...

How many lives do you save each day? I agree there are corrupt cops, but there are corrupt anything (fire fighters, investors, CEOs, etc). But there are actual police heroes that save lives. Perhaps not often, perhaps not always - but they do exist. And I'd imagine they save more lives and add more to the public good than a lot of other individuals.


Firefighters, investors and CEOs don't have the ability to get you locked up for years at a time.
2013-02-03 03:06:27 PM  
1 votes:
The One True TheDavid: How nice of the NYT to finally admit what leftists and marijuana advocates have been saying since, oh, 1966: cops routinely plant drugs on you and lie about it.

They actually have a name for that.  "Dropsy evidence."  As in "I drop it, then I see it."

The police in this country are as corrupt as anything.  Perjury, manufactured evidence, assault....  Take away the badge and the protection of the state, and what you have, quite literally, is an organized crime syndicate.
2013-02-03 03:02:28 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA: In 2010, a New York City police officer named Adil Polanco told a local ABC News reporter that "our primary job is not to help anybody, our primary job is not to assist anybody, our primary job is to get those numbers and come back with them." He continued: "At the end of the night you have to come back with something.  You have to write somebody, you have to arrest somebody, even if the crime is not committed, the number's there. So our choice is to come up with the number."

So... crime rates would drop if the police stopped lying about them to fill "imaginary" quotas? Good to know.

/policing in this country is in serious need of reform
//oddly, a republican in Illinois is trying to get tougher regulations on the use of tasers passed
2013-02-03 03:01:22 PM  
1 votes:

rev. dave: craig328: Easy enough problem to solve.  Two items:

2./ Start handing out serious effing sentences for perjury.  Having a witness verbally fence with the prosecutor and judge over the definition of "is" is farking stupid.  If you lie on the stand, you've committed perjury.  Period.  And now you go to jail.  Period.  Imagine how many cops will want to run the risk of going to jail such that they think lying on the stand is an option.  I'd imagine not very many.

This will only work if police get a mandatory life sentence for perjury.


Or a death sentence if it's severe enough, for example one of those all-too-frequent no-knock bust-ins to the wrong address where an unarmed resident gets blown away for being there. Of course my cynical side says if we start punishing cops for perjury, especially in a fatal "accident," they'll just start executing the witnesses on the spot and planting pistols and meth.
2013-02-03 02:56:58 PM  
1 votes:
Remember there used to be a "stolen valor" law that made it illegal to lie about past military service. Essentially a law in essence, making it illegal to lie.Then that law got shot down soon after. Why? I believe because it was fast appearing to be a potentially dangerous precedent of law which could filter into law enforcement and politics. We can't have a law on the books making it against the law to lie now can we. That just wouldn't work out for those who lie for a living. Those same people who make the rules and enforce them. No, that's gotta go.
2013-02-03 02:53:27 PM  
1 votes:
The only people who have ever pointed a deadly weapon at me have been cops. Yet even they have had to admit that they have never found a deady weapon on me, unless you count a pocketknife with a blade 1/4" over the legal limit for that state -- which that cop stole confiscated.

When I was a skinny 15 year old hitchhiker an Arizona state cop threw me across his car hood, jammed a .357 muzzle into the back of my neck and cocked the trigger, because I didn't comply quite fast enough. If a passing trucker hadn't slammed on his brakes very soon after that and told the cop about a big accident a few miles down the road I might well have died then and there; that there was in fact no accident is the kind of interaction I'd encourage people to have with police, if we must talk to them at all. (He said that scene made the CB airwaves immediately and he was less a mile away when he heard; it seemed like a matter of seconds to me, maybe a minute. That's what I call heroism.)
2013-02-03 02:44:20 PM  
1 votes:

craig328: rev. dave: craig328: Easy enough problem to solve.  Two items:

2./ Start handing out serious effing sentences for perjury.  Having a witness verbally fence with the prosecutor and judge over the definition of "is" is farking stupid.  If you lie on the stand, you've committed perjury.  Period.  And now you go to jail.  Period.  Imagine how many cops will want to run the risk of going to jail such that they think lying on the stand is an option.  I'd imagine not very many.

This will only work if police get a mandatory life sentence for perjury.

I don't think that's necessary, TBH.  For example: cop lies, cop gets caught lying, cop gets charged with and convicted of perjury and does some time (maybe 30 days say).

Now, cop is out of jail for lying on the stand in court.  His employer...wants him back?  Not likely but his union will prolly figure out a way to make that happen.  But as an officer of the law, how much is his testimony worth now?  Keep in mind, if he does testify again, he's doing it hooked up to a polygraph.  But then again, he did also have to spend 30 days in jail alongside the people he and his buddies have been tossing in there.

I think it would be a pretty good deterrent...IF you can get the judges behind it.


Happy day, sorry but laws don't apply to cops period.
here in TO cops where and are randomly stopping people and demanding ID (they were doing it downtown around the G20) even though that is explicitly illegal, when one of the units of the drug squad got sent to trial they crown deliberately screwed things up and the trial was dragged out so long it got thrown out.
No cop was ever held accountable for taking someone on the " Cherry beach express".

Laws exist to keep people in power, things may be more extreme in the States than some other western nations but the principle is the same.

Cops only exist because the army was to sympathetic to the people it was trying to oppress.
2013-02-03 02:33:18 PM  
1 votes:

rev. dave: craig328: Easy enough problem to solve.  Two items:

2./ Start handing out serious effing sentences for perjury.  Having a witness verbally fence with the prosecutor and judge over the definition of "is" is farking stupid.  If you lie on the stand, you've committed perjury.  Period.  And now you go to jail.  Period.  Imagine how many cops will want to run the risk of going to jail such that they think lying on the stand is an option.  I'd imagine not very many.

This will only work if police get a mandatory life sentence for perjury.


I don't think that's necessary, TBH.  For example: cop lies, cop gets caught lying, cop gets charged with and convicted of perjury and does some time (maybe 30 days say).

Now, cop is out of jail for lying on the stand in court.  His employer...wants him back?  Not likely but his union will prolly figure out a way to make that happen.  But as an officer of the law, how much is his testimony worth now?  Keep in mind, if he does testify again, he's doing it hooked up to a polygraph.  But then again, he did also have to spend 30 days in jail alongside the people he and his buddies have been tossing in there.

I think it would be a pretty good deterrent...IF you can get the judges behind it.
2013-02-03 02:32:27 PM  
1 votes:
Unlike most big problems, there's a pretty simple fix for this one:

1.  Require all cops to keep a mini audio/video camera clipped to their shirt at all times when on duty, with the recordings automatically going to a third-party escrow.

2.  Send cops to prison when they're caught committing perjury.

And, if you really want to do a thourough job  of fixing gthe problem,

3.  End the war on drugs.


Too bad these simple fixes are politically impossible  to actually do.
2013-02-03 02:26:51 PM  
1 votes:

Awesome T-Shirt: machoprogrammer: Anytime someone calls police heroes I laugh my ass off. They rarely save lives during a crime... 99% of the time they are there well after the crime has occurred and just do paperwork. Their main job is to bring revenue to the city via tickets and the for-profit prisons we have.

Why complain? That is exactly what you want.

Everytime anything is done to prevent crime (stop and frisk, sting operations, etc) you decry it. Anytime there is a big enough police presence where there can be a fast enough response to a crime in progress, you yell "Police State!"

You get exactly the type of law enforcement you're asking for.

 To quote the article: Even where no clear financial incentives exist, the "get tough" movement has warped police culture to such a degree that police chiefs and individual officers feel pressured to meet stop-and-frisk or arrest quotas in order to prove their "productivity."


So what were you trying to say?
2013-02-03 02:20:01 PM  
1 votes:
Why do dogs lick their balls?
2013-02-03 02:16:37 PM  
1 votes:
Chach:

Oh good! Cop hate thread! Can never get too many of these on FARK.

Few groups or "professions" deserve it more.
2013-02-03 02:12:41 PM  
1 votes:
it should be titled, "because its been incentivized.'
2013-02-03 02:07:20 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: I think I see an arrest fatal accident in the future of this author.


If you dont teach your children to be scared shiatless by cops then you are setting them up for a future suprise tazing.  In austin they taze you for shiats and giggles.

/for the greater good.....
2013-02-03 01:32:57 PM  
1 votes:
Sadly that article is far too accurate.  I have no idea what the solution to clean things up might be (especially considering that there will be so many powerful people vehemently against doing so) but it would be nice to do as my parents did & teach me that if there is a problem find a policeman.  These days I tell my kids that in general it seems that the LAST thing that you want to do is involve the police in any problem you may be having.

/unless of course that problem is an old dog that you can't bear to put down
//in which case having the police show up may take care of that for you
2013-02-03 01:32:02 PM  
1 votes:
You were swerving.


/bullshiat
2013-02-03 10:57:28 AM  
1 votes:
... And get away with it too.
 
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