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(Seattle Times)   To the Farkers that predicted Boeing's extensive outsourcing and lack of oversight on the 787 design would come back to bit them in the ass, stand up and say 'I told you so'   ( divider line
    More: Fail, Boeing  
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14758 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Feb 2013 at 8:09 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

Voting Results (Funniest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-02-03 08:10:34 AM  
10 votes:
If it's Boeing, I'm not going.
2013-02-03 08:20:06 AM  
6 votes:
A lot of grocery baggers with engineering degrees in the Everett WA are feeling pretty smug right now.
2013-02-03 01:14:17 PM  
4 votes:

Dogsbody: Fast
Choose two.

I love telling management that when they come to us wanting something ridiculous.  "Can you take this product that we've already been refining for 10 years, cut 25% parts cost, 50% assembly time, enable automated testing for every sub-assembly as well as the finished product, eliminate all custom parts from the BoM, cut the failure rate by 60%, and make it so that an 8 y/o autistic girl that has never spent a day in school can troubleshoot and fix it within an hour no matter what the failure mode was????  ..... and we need you to do it by yourself with no budget in 2 months.... and don't let your other projects slip.... Oh, almost forgot.... It has to be backward compatible, with every config, of every previous revision, all the way back to the original prototype so we can retrofit it, again using an autistic child for labor."
2013-02-03 01:36:43 PM  
3 votes:

EvilEgg: Hey it's cheap and most of the time it works.

Hello Sir, my name is James, how may I help you with your Boeing Dreamliner?

Oh, I am sorry to hear your plane is on fire and you are in a controlled glide to a water landing 400 miles from the nearest land.  Have you you tried getting out of the aircraft and getting back in, sir?  I cannot help you until you try the above described process, sir. Good day.  <click>
2013-02-03 08:46:04 AM  
3 votes:

You worry so we don't have to.

2013-02-03 10:51:35 AM  
2 votes:

Deathfrogg: So you call the engineers up at the Kite Factory, and try to get information on what they would suggest as to a good method to achieve that tolerance. The 25 year old schnook on the phone who is fresh out of New Delhi University School of Engineering tells you to filter and chill the coolant.

Sounds like somebody needs a refresher course. It's all ball-bearings these days.
2013-02-03 09:01:45 AM  
2 votes:

BiffSpiffy: But Radio Shack parts mean that they just have to pop into any Mall and get replacements, right?

Popping into a mall in midflight is frowned upon by the FAA.

/that's the kind of overregulation that makes things tough for small businesses like Boeing
2013-02-03 08:42:37 AM  
2 votes:
I blame the Unions.

If they had not been so greedy, Boeing wouldn't have been forced to outsource to remain cost competitive.
2013-02-03 08:39:22 AM  
2 votes:
Maybe Boeing should just rename it the Screamliner or the Flying Nightmare.
2013-02-03 04:54:24 PM  
1 vote:
Um, that should have been "engineers" instead of engines. Auto-correct probably needed to be shipped NOW.
2013-02-03 03:03:10 PM  
1 vote:
You what we manufacture in this country?

Lawsuits and excuses.
2013-02-03 12:27:42 PM  
1 vote:
Any time one of your senior engineers uses the term "diddly-squat" in a statement to the media, things probably aren't going as well as they should be.
2013-02-03 11:29:18 AM  
1 vote:

MindStalker: Honestly, is this who fiasco much different than Boeing hiring a bunch of homeless dudes (no offense) and putting them on the production line. Blaming the failures on, "Well the Union labor was too expensive".

heh heh offence taken....I get your point.
2013-02-03 10:42:47 AM  
1 vote:

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: This story can't be true. The specs were met. They were enforcing the schedule. The boxes were checked. The risks were all green. Therefore failure is not possible.

FTA: "As to our quality flow down through our supply chain, we have very robust processes,"

Maybe aerospace companies should focus on robust engineering instead of robust processes. "Systems engineering" doesn't work so well when many of your (systems) engineers have little technical experience-- especially design/test/integration experience. Too often they are focused on the process instead of the product.

Several times I've seen parts come in, aluminium castings/forgings or polycarbonate, where hole locations are toleranced geometrically at .0039 of an inch (thats .1mm) on the prints. Machine the part, inspect it on the machine and it is in tolerance. Take it off the jig, deburr it, clean it and send it to inspection, and its out by .001". Reject!

So you call the engineers up at the Kite Factory, and try to get information on what they would suggest as to a good method to achieve that tolerance. The 25 year old schnook on the phone who is fresh out of New Delhi University School of Engineering tells you to filter and chill the coolant.


So you do that. You spend the $1500 to buy a rather expensive filtration system for the coolant, and then a chilling system (Boeing approved of course) and spend the next two weeks trying to figure out how to hold that goddamn tolerance, for what turns out to be a through-hole clearance on a flexible hydraulic line.
2013-02-03 10:20:06 AM  
1 vote:

homelessdude: beefoe: Everyone outsources everything.  Most companies (Apple and perhaps every other computer company) don't ever even touch any phase of their production.  It's efficient, cost effective and lets companies take advantage of best-in-class technology and fabrication.  It's just how things are done now, not some evil conspiracy.

I agree with the thought of outsourcing as a viable business and manufacturing method. It makes sense and while it hurts domestically, it is the way the world works. For my part, I deal every single day with the barrage of low cost providers in my field from outside of my country. It drives me crazy but it also drives me to improve my skillset to stay ahead of the pack. It is the only way to stay viable in my field.

The problem though with outsourcing is that all too often, the decision to outsource is not to take advantage of "best-in-class technology and fabrication". Instead, it is due to people channeling the work flow where the bottom line is paramount and not the product. Yes, companies need to make their money and all that and profit is good and necessary for corporate survival. But when a completely inferior product is created (and in this case, maybe a truly fatal flaw), then the methods of production and the reasons for choosing those techniques must be questioned. I am no aerospace engineer by any stretch or a production guru, but after so many mis-steps in the 787's short life, it is difficult not to be at least a little skeptical.

Something is rotten in Denmark....or Seattle as it were.

I am in Aerospace (not Boeing), and I can assure you the outsourcing is scary as hell.  They ship stuff out all over the place and the fight to get the components and systems qualified to our satisfaction is mind boggling.  We have to CONSTANTLY fight Program Management and push back against components that failed tests, don't meet our specifications, etc.  The suppliers are always giving us the "But we feel it's good enough and meets the spirit of the specification", while we scream that it FAILED and they need to fix the design.  Then Program management comes down on us with the schedule pressure because the calendar they have shows everything being done early, because that's how if should be in the land of unicorns.
Many of us Engineers have pictures of the Space Shuttle Challenger on our desks with the quote "At least they made the schedule".  (A few of the more dickhead Program Managers have seen that and damn near blew their stacks.  The good ones have seen that and said "Lets do whatever we have to in order to ensure that doesn't happen to us, but they are outnumbered by a massive margin.)
I used to like to fly.  I no longer do.
2013-02-03 09:30:01 AM  
1 vote:

BiffSpiffy: But Radio Shack parts mean that they just have to pop into any Mall and get replacements, right?

But you have giving them your goddamned ZIP code every time.
2013-02-03 09:22:54 AM  
1 vote:
My iPhone was built by outsourcing to soulless companies whose employees are suicidal. Let's let them build airplane parts!
2013-02-03 09:09:24 AM  
1 vote:
I informed you thusly.
2013-02-03 08:41:38 AM  
1 vote:
"The supplier management organization (at Boeing) didn't have diddly-squat in terms of engineering capability when they sourced all that work," he said.

You mean a part of Boeing, a company that when they bought MD the first thing they did was let go a ton of engineers, didn't have any engineering staff handy? You're shiatting me.
2013-02-03 08:28:39 AM  
1 vote:
Unlike earlier Boeing jets, he said, the innards of the 787 power distribution panels - which control the flow of electricity to the plane's many systems - are "like Radio Shack," with parts that are "cheap, plastic and prone to failure." ha ck-still-in-b,2190/
2013-02-03 08:24:48 AM  
1 vote:

BiffSpiffy: But Radio Shack parts mean that they just have to pop into any Mall and get replacements, right?

Only if you're looking for a new phone contract.
2013-02-03 08:22:48 AM  
1 vote:
Mad Scientist: If it's Boeing, I'm not going.

"Boeing faces an indefinite grounding of the Dreamliner because of a battery fire"

Battery Fire Dreamlighter
2013-02-03 08:20:31 AM  
1 vote:
wait wait wait, are you telling me quality and cost are directly related? Umpossible.
2013-02-03 08:16:32 AM  
1 vote:

styckx: Outsourcing shiat to third world countries known for half assing shiat at the expense of American stupidity isn't a good idea still? Who'da thunk it?

Damned shareholders and other assorted paper shufflers, who don't give a flying fark about the long-term consequences to jobs or the public as long as the original decision to outsource and supposedly better value makes enough for them to make a killing when they unload their poisoned stock on some poor sucker.
2013-02-03 08:12:48 AM  
1 vote:
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