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(WFAA Fort Worth)   Chris Kyle, the deadliest sniper in U.S. history, shot and killed at rifle range   (wfaa.com) divider line 290
    More: Scary, Chris Kyle, Erath County, U.S., Operation Iraqi Freedom, stress syndrome, snipers  
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34773 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Feb 2013 at 12:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-02-03 12:03:15 AM  
18 votes:
We need more guns in the gun ranges so this kind of thing can never happen again!
2013-02-03 12:06:01 AM  
15 votes:
So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.
2013-02-03 12:22:33 AM  
9 votes:
Even if it was a shiatty, pointless war....aaand he may have been a bit jesus freak crazy.....he still was willing to put his own ass on the line for something the civilian leadership of this country asked him to do.

You can have whatever opinion about him that you want.

People like this are national treasures.
RIP
/Liberal
//%100 against going to Iraq in the first place
2013-02-03 12:10:15 AM  
9 votes:
The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero
2013-02-03 12:16:26 AM  
8 votes:

The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.


OK, you too, chuckles. How was he a hero.

Seriously, I'm sick of jagoffs calling any dumb asshole with a gun who gets off on killing people a "hero". This guy was a psychopath.
2013-02-03 01:25:28 AM  
7 votes:
This guy was a farking idiot and a clinical example of someone with antisocial personality disorder aka psychopath/sociopath. It's nice that he served his country and such but a person of his type has no place helping someone with brain trauma recover. You want to help out, sure why not, but do not put them in a situation that can trigger an episode and as this case shows results in tragic results.

The kid wants to fire a few rounds? Fine, take him to laser tag or a paint ball course. Give him an old NES light gun but don't hand him a live weapon. Make sure he has a few years of therapy, that he has some meds or some sort of coping system or put him in immersion therapy but give him a live weapon on an open range was just asking for trouble.

This guy was full of himself and he paid the price for it. How do I know? He wrote a book. God told him to do what he did. And most important of all, he enjoyed doing it.

And as a disclaimer this is not a troll. I work at a state hospital, I see kids and adults with TBI, PTSD, sociopaths and psychopaths and everything in between of all stripes and colors. And the latter of the bunch are worst and hardest to work with. And the only thing standing between them tearing my head off and me making it home after shift is making sure they take their meds, knowing how to talk  and deal with them and a hell of a of luck since most of these guys come from the prisons and are in far better shape than my potato sack ass and they have nothing better to do all day than work out and plot and plan.

/But I do have a great dental plan.
2013-02-03 12:45:55 AM  
7 votes:

Fat-D: Even if it was a shiatty, pointless war....aaand he may have been a bit jesus freak crazy.....he still was willing to put his own ass on the line for something the civilian leadership of this country asked him to do.

You can have whatever opinion about him that you want.

People like this are national treasures.
RIP
/Liberal
//%100 against going to Iraq in the first place


No. They are not national treasures.
I don't blame every vet who went to Vietnam for not realizing that it was an unjust action on the part of the US, but it was, and any perceptive person could tell.
Similarly, our action in Iraq were wrong from the beginning. I don't blame ever soldier who went but I'm sick of this "thank you for your service" mandate that effectively presumes that blind obedience to some abstract patriotic ideal is a good thing. It isn't. Truth remains more nuanced. If that blind patriotic sense is so praiseworthy, then you have to start praising Nazi soldiers. Again, sorry but reality is far more nuanced.
2013-02-03 12:17:39 AM  
7 votes:

The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.


How are his actions Heroic? How has any war after W II been worth the lives it destroyed? Our soldiers aren't defending anything but a  mercenary's paycheck paid by the blood of the The People on behalf of corporate interests.
2013-02-03 12:16:49 AM  
7 votes:
Too bad he wasn't a sexually deviant minority or something.

Then Fark would have his back.
2013-02-03 12:09:30 AM  
7 votes:
what was that about the need for better treatment for mental illnesses?
2013-02-03 12:06:21 AM  
7 votes:
deadliest sniper in U.S. history

He never killed anyone. His gun did.
2013-02-03 02:48:24 AM  
6 votes:
This thread is why I generally don't post on fark anymore. (Yes, I know I'm posting right now). I'd find myself, through the anonymity of the internet, saying things to people that I'd never say to their face. Ten years ago, as a whippersnapper, I thought it was funny. It was novel. I don't like that I did that. I don't like that I behaved that way.

Either I'm old as dirt at 27, or the negativity has just gotten more pervasive. I don't mean negativity as in response to this thread, "for" or "against" labeling this man as a hero, or whatever everyone here is discussing. I mean negativity as in the overarching attitude of these threads. The trend I've witnessed and identified is one of lowest common denominator. The internet has ruined humanity in a way. Huge proportions of people post things to illicit an emotional response such as shock. This continuous strive for revolting people has created a race to the bottom. Each and every one of us has to "one-up" the next guy to be noticed, to be given attention. And so we continue on down that path. Many of you here seem to equate an "original thought" with that of simply pissing someone off.

There's a serious lack of honesty on fark anymore, although the argument could be made it was never honest. There's a serious lack of general compassion, although the argument could be made it was never a compassionate site. But when a farker dies, or when something personal happens, the brigade comes out to say nice things...because hey, it was personal. But when it's a complete stranger you've never met, it's perfectly justifiable to take a couple snippets you know about them, and completely write off their existence. This is why I don't participate.

If we are to elevate the discussions, it would involve invoking the golden rule. Then again, it may only be my desire to elevate the discussions, and it may be the rest of fark's intentions to simply make the discussions funny. I can't speak for any of you.

Either my perception is correct, that things have gotten nastier here, OR my sense of humor has changed with age. I'm not unbiased enough to know. I do know that I'm laughing less while visiting this site though.

Go ahead and cue the welcometofark.jpeg.

/It wasn't the story that prompted the post, I don't intend to comment one way or another in terms of this man's death. It was the tone of the thread.
//Certainly not a fark saint, I'm sure I'm on ignore lists. I know I've said horrible things here, and that sucks, and I feel bad about it, and I don't intend to repeat history.
///I just have to stop posting here.
2013-02-03 01:11:24 AM  
6 votes:
arolemodel.com
2013-02-03 01:03:09 AM  
6 votes:
In all seriousness, this is a terrible example of the lack of mental healthcare our veterans are receiving upon return from wherever they go.  Whether you agree or disagree with the mission, the failure to recognize and address that we've got a second Vietnam worth of societal problems revolving around veterans returning with mental/emotional issues will haunt us for the next 60 years.
2013-02-03 12:54:32 AM  
6 votes:
I will leave with this bunch of hot air:
It's tragic when anyone dies. Period.
But this man was no hero. If your prerogative is to call anyone who does something dangerous a hero, fine. But by that logic, this guy is no more a hero than anyone fighting for any cause, including those you disagree with. To me, that's a pretty weak-ass definition of "hero".

This guy thought he was killing for God. I sh*t you not. Now, personally I call that a psychopath with borderline schizophrenic tendencies. But if it's to threatening to your sensibilities to consider the fact that a guy who wore our uniform was, in fact, nothing more than painfully tragic in the best case scenario, well, whatever helps you sleep at night.

What do I know? I'm just some guy who didn't sign up to murder people from 500 yards away for fun. Clearly, it's MY priorities that are screwed up.
2013-02-03 12:35:00 AM  
6 votes:

The_Sponge: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: OK, you too, chuckles. How was he a hero.


By killing terrorists and doing more with his life than you ever will with yours.


I personally think it's cute that you hold up armed services as "doing more with their lives than you ever will."

My job makes healthcare safer on a broad scale, and thus, by proxy, saves lives.

Did this guy's sniping people in a third world country from a mile away really constitute doing more than I will ever do in my life? I'm just curious how deep your delusion is.
2013-02-03 12:30:04 AM  
6 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.


If you're actually being serious? He's a hero for undertaking a mission which only a select group of human beings, the number of which could be counted in the low thousands, in the history of the United States have been able to do. In doing so, he placed himself at extreme risk of capture by an enemy who would neither respect the laws and conventions of warfare, but would gleefully do horrific things to his corpse long after tortuing and murdering him to do so. His mission not only placed him in the realm of disproportionate risk as a soldier, but also provided a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer, allowing American and allied forces to do what they needed to do, without endangering civilians and noncombattants as much as a drone strike or artillery strike would have.

He did this while honoribly serving his country, and upholding the laws and values of the UCMJ and the conventions which we stuck to, even while others didn't.

So yes. That's why he's a hero. Some people aren't satisfied being BASH Commandos in a cubicle.
2013-02-03 12:23:02 AM  
6 votes:
Protip to all you vets who may be suffering from PTSD. Going to a gun range and handling weapons might not be the best thing to do in your spare time.
2013-02-03 12:16:59 AM  
6 votes:
Hired killer gets killed. Sorry for his family, but it sure looks like he bragged about it. Live by the sword, die by the sword. 

Don't like it? Don't sign up as a government sponsored killer.
2013-02-03 12:08:34 AM  
6 votes:
medicolegal.tripod.com
2013-02-03 05:59:55 AM  
5 votes:

DrPainMD: Fat-D: Even if it was a shiatty, pointless war....aaand he may have been a bit jesus freak crazy.....he still was willing to put his own ass on the line for something the civilian leadership of this country asked him to do.

You can have whatever opinion about him that you want.

People like this are national treasures.
RIP
/Liberal
//%100 against going to Iraq in the first place

Would that be true of Germans in the late 1930s - early 1940s, too?


Finding intellectual inconsistencies in this thread is like shooting fish in a barrel, because the vast, vast majority of comments are made from emotional not intellectual positions.

All armies contain heroes, cowards and villains, and some soldiers are all three at various times or even simultaneously. The German army was full of people putting their arses on the line at the behest of their government and not questioning the situation. If we apply the logic of many Farkers in this thread, they also must be heroes. But those same Farkers would reject this. If we say it's bad that German soldiers followed orders unquestioningly, then we're also saying that the US (and Australian, and various other) armies should have refused to follow orders in 2001/02 because Iraq offered no threat to anyone else's national security. And if we don't agree with that position either, then we at least have to accept that there were numerous breaches of the Geneva convention by US soldiers which have tarnished all of their comrades. And if we're just, like, no the US RULES and everyone else can suck our dicks, then we're applying no intellect to this situation at all. And that helps precisely no one.

As long as snipers are legitimate in warfare, we can't bash any of them for doing their jobs. It's not their job to question the orders they receive. If you don't like the orders, criticise the administration for handing them out. And it's sad that Chris Kyle died violently just like it's sad when anyone dies violently, such as children in Iraq who happened to be in the vicinity of coalition bombs or bullets. And I guess snipers on battlefields are less likely to take out innocent non-combatants than bomber pilots, artillery soldiers or even GI's engaged in battles in urban areas.

I'm not so naive as to believe that we'll eliminate these problems but we can as sure as shiat minimise them by ensuring our political leaders are accountable for military decisions (and there's not just some crappy 'you're either with us or against us' narrative in play), having sensible weapons laws and supporting troops with mental illnesses when they get home. Thousands of lives can be saved with all of the social and economic benefits that go with that.
2013-02-03 12:52:07 AM  
5 votes:

BronyMedic: If you're actually being serious? He's a hero for undertaking a mission which only a select group of human beings, the number of which could be counted in the low thousands, in the history of the United States have been able to do.


He was a sociopath.  If you're heard him interviewed, that much was clear.   In reality, so is somewhere around 1% of the population.

Being imbued with sociopathy made it a lot easier for him do that job.   A job that most humans with standard mental wiring would find difficult, maybe even impossible, may have been no more difficult to him than shooting vermin.  Does that make him a "hero"?

/Being a sociopath doesn't mean he wasn't a hero, but it doesn't mean he was a hero either.  He served his country, absolutely, no question.  So have countless others.  Does it make him a hero?  ehhhhhhh
2013-02-03 12:40:30 AM  
5 votes:
I'll throw my hat in on this one, too.  Snipers don't necessarily "fight fair" but at least they know exactly who they're killing when they do it.  He killed 160 men in 10 years; suicide bombers take out that many in five minutes and people that launch tomahawks do the same thing.  He pulled heat off of pinned-down and wounded fighters, and I'm sure they would call him a hero for that.  Sure, his zeal for his job is unsettling, but then war is absolutely horrible in just about every way you can imagine.  Another thing that snipers do: stop battles by making the opposition too scared to stick around.

His was a dirty job but an honorable one, though he no doubt carried mental scars that could have rivaled Routh's but he dumped his anguish into his faith.
2013-02-03 12:13:13 AM  
5 votes:

TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero



Seconded.
2013-02-03 12:12:25 AM  
5 votes:

ElBarto79: Oh wow, I have a gun nut friend who is constantly posting on Facebook how you never see shootings at gun ranges. This is getting forwarded to him.


The important thing is that this dead soldier proved you right with your facebook friend.
2013-02-03 12:09:10 AM  
5 votes:
God bless the man for his service to our country. Crazy struck again and he was in Crazy's way.
2013-02-03 12:07:35 AM  
5 votes:
We obviously need to put armed guards at every gun range, so unhinged people like this don't see them as targets of opportunity.
2013-02-03 12:18:52 PM  
4 votes:

the_han: Burning with rage right now. Alot of this "You joined to be in the military, deal with it. It's not like anybody made you." If everyone had your mentality you low life sack of shiat there would be no farking volunteers in the military. Hey look let's have a draft! Now you can really put yourself in our shoes. Do you now understand that SOMEBODY has to be on the tip of the spear, defending our nation and the free world? Some of us feel that patriotic call to arms and a fire burns in us with such intensity that we must join up and fight or forever stand on the sidelines like you hippies and feel the utter impotence of not having done anything when out nation called. If I'm not doing the fighting, you just might get called up to do it.

I pray to God we have a ground war with Iran and half of you shiat dicks get called up in a draft. Dear lord please baby jebus let that happen!



This kind of rage-filled fundie warmongering mentality is exactly why the "hippies" have a valid point, idiot. Wipe the flecks of spittle off your monitor and have a think about it.
2013-02-03 11:43:08 AM  
4 votes:
This shows how BS the "guns defend people" fantasy is. When someone has the drop on you, you don't magically draw faster and out shoot someone because you are the "good guy". But I hear in these gun threads gun nuts pretend that's the case.
2013-02-03 11:05:33 AM  
4 votes:

the_han: I'm done skimming the 600 some odd comments of incendiary trolling by Fark's elite left. Basement dwelling 13 year olds, the lot of you. At least that is the picture you paint. I'm not saying just because we serve, and you people are acting like asshats, that you should walk a mile in a soldier's shoes, but gotdamn. Welcome to Fark, I get it.

When the Maersk Alabama situation was ended by the Seals, you cheered. When Bin Laden's douchey flame was expunged by Seals, you applauded and raved that these men were heroes. These guys live hard lives. Speak harsh, act harsh, and usually die in a violent manner. Thank christ I do not rely on you leaf eating tree hugging hispter douche anti American vaginas for the defense of this nation. You live your comfy lives without the sounds smells and sights of war because of us. If you do not understand this, and I am sure most don't, You're farking welcome. Ungrateful douches.


Thank you for keeping those bloodthirsty Canucks and sharp-teethed Mexicans off our backs.

I'm being a little snarky there, obviously. Don't misunderstand me: there are a bunch of morons posting in here in a very juvenile manner about things that they are really not "in the know" about. I have family that served in the every war all the way back to Vietnam, then again from WWII all the way back to the Revolutionary War. (Skipped Korea.) I'm thankful for everything they did for me and us. They're also the type of people who would never have gone on a rant like that ↑.

Being in the service or being a fireman or a policeman or a doctor or whatever does not make you a better human being than the teacher or the mechanic or the bank teller. I think some people in here are reacting to that idea. Some people are just being douchey. Some people are raising great points and debating about the neccessity of the actions our country is taking; about the neccessity of sending soldiers into harm's way. TRUST ME, you WANT some of those "hipster douche(s)" taking our politicians to task for sending you soldiers into battle. If all you had were people whose knee jerk reactions to international problems were "send in the troops" there would be a lot more military funerals; there would be a draft; there would be a lot more PTSD in the world. The world would be a sh*ttier place. Granted, some of these people are acting like douches and are not trying to debate anything but rather just be mean. Some of them are even political enemies of this country and are not even American. You're getting all bent out of shape because some Aussie or European or Asian Farker is peeing in your Cheerios? Slow down, you're reacting EXACTLY how they want you to...

Thanks for your service and the hard road you've walked.
2013-02-03 08:17:43 AM  
4 votes:

mmonnens: This is an Irony, not Scary, though someone didn't belong at that range.


THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Too many someone's who shouldn't be near guns. While some defend the right of every not-yet-convicted criminal to carry one I disagree. I remain perplexed that so many will let this continue when little children are being shot, while solider heroes are killed, while needless killings happen day.

You  should find this scary because it means no matter how well-armed you are, no matter how well-trained, no matter how much experience you have in in kill or be killed situations, some yokel who shouldn't have a gun can take you out when you least expect it.
2013-02-03 03:08:27 AM  
4 votes:

omeganuepsilon: That's pretty much every service member, considering that most of society won't make any sacrifice for their country and it's ideals....Service members give up a lot of freedom right off the bat, as well as obtaining increased risk and stress.  A lot of civilians like to make it sound like the military is a cakewalk and no different than a "normal" job, but in reality that is a grossly ignorant perspective.


I don't think I said otherwise, so let me clear something up here: I don't see this as an argument about the virtues of military service or the sacrifices inherent in that decision. This is about the merit in singling out a particular individual's deeds while serving.

Kyle isn't being branded "an American hero" for choosing to join the Navy. He is specifically being branded "an American hero" for shooting a whole bunch of people from a great distance, something that distinguishes him from others. Had he not shot as many people, his identity would blend back into a mass of service members whose stories don't get published and who do not make national news if somebody murders them.

Can we agree that that is the case?

Down the line in their career, much of what is done is saving lives(ie "Evil" Dictator takes a bullet to the chest from a mile out, all his potential victims are that much safer, figuratively pulled out of the fire).

Agreed. However, was that the sniper's intent, or does he just really like shooting people? This is important, because from what I've seen about this guy, there were indications that it tended toward the latter.

No, liking what one does does not make it unheroic, but once you take sufficient pleasure in it, there's reason to explore the issue a bit.

Question #1: Let's say you show up at a bar every day and have a few beers. You love beer. One day, after a few years of drinking beer, the bartender comes over, looks you square in the eye, and says "Look, the fate of the world hinges on this beer. Thousands of innocent lives will end if you don't drink it." Bizarrely, it's true. You know it's true. You drink the beer. The lives are saved. Are you now a hero because you continued doing the thing you were already doing simply because you enjoy doing it, or are you only as heroic as you always were?

Question #2: From another angle, if Superman could only achieve sexual climax by stopping bank robberies, would people still believe he was stopping bank robbers because he wanted to do a good thing, or would they start wondering if maybe he is not driven primarily by a commitment to justice?

Kyle clearly excelled at his work, and I think that's admirable and deserves recognition. Like I said, "legendary" is certainly a good word. I just feel like it's troubling to see people unquestioningly label it heroism, which carries moral connotations, based purely on his, for all intents and purposes, unlocking an achievement.

Somewhere out there, there's a guy for whom the military was not his second choice after an injury ended his rodeo career. Somewhere out there, there's a guy who didn't leave to save his marriage. There are lots of guys who didn't come home safely. I'm not comfortable with a definition of heroism that elevates pure technical performance above other commitments and sacrifices without any regard for the possibility that, hey, he might have enjoyed having an excuse to kill a bunch of people.
2013-02-03 01:06:22 AM  
4 votes:
I can't really put a "hero" label on this guy.  He served honorably with distinction and courage, but the conflict he served in was a load of shiat.  Not every soldier is a hero.  Not every insurgent is a villain.  Granted, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a soldier hanging around than a Taliban fighter, but you can't paint either group in black and white.  There may be people with the virtue of a saint serving in uniform, but I've personally known quite a few absolutely vile service members as well.  On that same note, there might be some terrorists who are in it purely because they believe it's the best/only way to make a better life for themselves or their families, along with the ones mentioned up-thread with killboners for any American they can find.  The best thing we as a nation can do is educate ourselves, pick leaders who will look out for everyone's best interest, and beat the everloving shiat out of the ones who betray that trust.

/veteran, not a hero
//for me it was a job and a way out of my crappy home town
2013-02-03 01:02:25 AM  
4 votes:

ficklefkrfark: Fat-D: Even if it was a shiatty, pointless war....aaand he may have been a bit jesus freak crazy.....he still was willing to put his own ass on the line for something the civilian leadership of this country asked him to do.

You can have whatever opinion about him that you want.

People like this are national treasures.
RIP
/Liberal
//%100 against going to Iraq in the first place

Well put sir!
Agree or disagree with the war, respect the service.


Do I also respect the service for the other side who are fighting for their country?
Do I "respect" them with a sniper rifle?
I know this "respect the service" line is a blowback from the cliche of calling vietnam vets "baby killers", and to the extent that happened, it was wrong.
But that doesn't mean you have to swing the pendulum all the way back to claiming that anyone who serves their country is automatically knighted and sainted.
I know too many who signed up after 9-11 because they wanted to go kill Arabs, any old Arab, and that remains a disreputable goal whether you wear my country's uniform or not. Sorry but wearing a uniform is not a absolution from moral constraints.
2013-02-03 12:45:59 AM  
4 votes:
regardless of what you think about chris kyle or the wars he participated in, the reality is that he was working with ptsd veterans and one turned on him.  you don't need to think of him as a hero to understand that this is incredibly sad.
2013-02-03 12:36:37 AM  
4 votes:
Back in Saint Reagans day, these people were the heroes.

i.imgur.com
2013-02-03 12:31:25 AM  
4 votes:

BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.

If you're actually being serious? He's a hero for undertaking a mission which only a select group of human beings, the number of which could be counted in the low thousands, in the history of the United States have been able to do. In doing so, he placed himself at extreme risk of capture by an enemy who would neither respect the laws and conventions of warfare, but would gleefully do horrific things to his corpse long after tortuing and murdering him to do so. His mission not only placed him in the realm of disproportionate risk as a soldier, but also provided a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer, allowing American and allied forces to do what they needed to do, without endangering civilians and noncombattants as much as a drone strike or artillery strike would have.

He did this while honoribly serving his country, and upholding the laws and values of the UCMJ and the conventions which we stuck to, even while others didn't.

So yes. That's why he's a hero. Some people aren't satisfied being BASH Commandos in a cubicle.


So he followed orders and was very good at it.... So were Nazi war criminals.... They heroes too? Your turn.
2013-02-03 12:29:39 AM  
4 votes:

Frank N Stein: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.

They're ignoring your trolling. It's pretty fail, bro.

It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.

He's a hero because he went to a foreign land, put himself in extreme danger and extreme discomfort, to kill a bunch of people as commanded by the people you put in charge. Satisfactory answer?


He enjoyed it and he wasn't defending his country. Sh*tty answer.
2013-02-03 12:24:44 AM  
4 votes:

halB: I'm shocked.

If a man starts shooting people at a gun range, you would figure he would be put down by everyone else at the range as an act of self defense.

I have no idea how he made it away from that range, unless it was a backwoods range where you only find a handful of people shooting.

At a range with 10+ people, that guy would've been toast from the first shot.


So say the gun nuts anyway. Turns out it doesn't go like that in real life though, right?
2013-02-03 12:20:30 AM  
4 votes:
Thank god shooting spree killers never target gun ranges because they're so well armed.

Also, thankfully, one of the many armed heroes was able to stop this guy before he could commit terror. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.... except when they don't.
2013-02-03 12:18:38 AM  
4 votes:

ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.


Sooo, by that logic, there's no tragedy in the deaths of any American soldiers who fired on anyone in Iraq.

Disagree with our nation's military goals, fine. But you're just being a dick about the death of someone who you know nothing about beyond a few highlights of their military career, with nothing further (let alone anything useful or insightful) to offer.

/yes, we should never have gone to Iraq
2013-02-03 12:17:26 AM  
4 votes:
Was this the same sniper who talked about how god guided all his shots and it was god's will they died

If so it is still a shame when someone gets murdered, but I don't have the spare tears for self-righteous angels of death.
2013-02-03 12:16:53 AM  
4 votes:

preybyemail: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

Jesus wept, you are a sorry sack of ass


Jesus is a fictional character.
2013-02-03 12:08:07 AM  
4 votes:

ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.



You do realize that Canadian troops have fought along side ours in the Middle East, right?
2013-02-03 12:05:24 AM  
4 votes:
This is an Irony, not Scary, though someone didn't belong at that range.
2013-02-03 12:02:44 AM  
4 votes:
If there were something he could have done to protect himself.
2013-02-04 07:07:31 AM  
3 votes:

WhyteRaven74: I found some quotes from Kyle and yeah can't say he's the sort of person you'd want as a sniper. Sure he's a good shot, but he seemed to enjoy it a bit too much. I remember watching an old interview with Carlos Hathcock, who was a sniper in Vietnam and a damn good one, and he said he never liked actually killing someone, but he figured it was them or him or someone else on his side. He said all he liked was being out looking for them, once he found them, it was different. There was even one mission he took, not one he was ordered to take but one he chose to take, that he later regretted taking.


He was one of the instructors at The Basic School when I was in the Marines, and I spoke with him a few times. I have no doubt that he was quite literally insane. Listening to him and even just looking at his eyes was startling. He told me he "loved" killing, and that his greatest regret was "not breaking 100". A lot of our best warriors are people you wouldn't bring home to meet your mother.
2013-02-03 03:14:12 PM  
3 votes:
To the trolls who have a problem with chris kyles treatment i will say this.. What bothers those of us with a conscience and morals is him bragging about it, making himself a celebrity. Book, tv, high profile interviews etc. claiming that Jesus guided his shots. Once you bring religion into your killings you have broken the crazy territory. He had no remorse. He enjoyed shooting people.his enemies were subhuman to him. He hated Muslims.  This is not someone to look up to unless you're a tea partier asshole son of a biatch.
2013-02-03 09:08:18 AM  
3 votes:
This is an excellent thread for expanding my "ignore" list to include crybabies who think the word "troll" means "someone who disagrees with me"
2013-02-03 09:06:27 AM  
3 votes:
i am so tired of anyone who unforntunatly dies while doing their job being labeled a "hero" this includes cops, soldiers, etc. we were born with free will. you know the risks when you take the job. when you pull over a car at 1:00 am you know the risks involved. you are not a hero if you get your ass blown away. to me a real hero is someone walking down the street, see a fire and runs into a building to save someone. or tries to stop someone from being being attacked. risking his/her life to help another. not for promotions, or medals, or free doughnuts. someone who doesn't need or want to be "thanked for their service"
2013-02-03 08:33:43 AM  
3 votes:

BronyMedic: I'm also curious how many Iraqi casualties are the result of sectarian violence and infighting, and not the result of US Combat Action in general.


if that sectarian violence is above and beyond what saddams regime would have carried out, we are still responsible for it.
2013-02-03 04:06:58 AM  
3 votes:

ambercat: So, once again a lack of mental health resources was what killed, abetted by access to a gun.


What I'm wondering is, did Kyle know the guy had PTSD and if so, what in the actual fark is he doing taking the guy to a gun range for?
2013-02-03 03:59:47 AM  
3 votes:
I see people are still blaming this on "crazy" or "mental illness".

Mental illness is a chemical problem, not a psychological one. Schizophrenia is a mental illness. It is something that can not be changed by the person suffering from the illness. Alzheimers is another. Schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, and other mental illnesses DO NOT CORRELATE TO HIGHER RATES OF VIOLENCE. In fact, the mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators of violence.

Mental health problems are psychological. They're bad decisions by individuals with healthy brain chemistry, or people under the influence. Chronic anger is a mental health problem, though there might be some chemical problems that could be helped with medications.

Violence is far more likely to be due to substance abuse, interpersonal conflict, or even due to the pressures of being poor. The mentally ill are being unfairly scapegoated in the recent violence of our culture, by the media, by politicians, by the ignorant. It is repulsive and we are at risk of violating the rights of the mentally ill in order to give ourselves a convenient explanation for why these things are happening.

However it is our culture that is to blame. When you glorify violence, when you justify the use of violence to solve problems, you should not be surprised when violence occurs. Violence is not something you can use against "others", then expect to put away in a dark, safe place never to be used against you or anyone you care about. As others have said, you reap what you sow.

I am sad that this has occurred, and I don't think it's cosmic justice, however I am disgusted by people's willingness to just pass this off as "crazy people". As the brother of a "crazy" person who has been victimized by a brutal, uncaring, exploitative society that honestly doesn't care or even want to learn about what mental illness really is, I can't stand by and let people cloak themselves in convenient lies.

http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
http://psychcentral.com/archives/violence.htm
http://www.cmha.ca/mental_health/violence-and-mental-illness/
2013-02-03 02:46:27 AM  
3 votes:

khyberkitsune: BronyMedic: Vietnam was a MILITARY victory for the United States. At the time of the pullout, we had accomplished our military objectives in that conflict.

According to my grandfather, Lt. Col USMC, Ret. who served in that war (and Korea, and WWII,) you're dead wrong and he says to throw away whatever high school diploma you got and start again at a real school.


....yeah.... we pulled out and any progress we made was lost and vietnam was completely overrun.

With that said, the only real reason the US military wages war anymore is to A)  Keep the worlds largest (and only) supply of battle-hardened troops supplied with plenty of combat experience B)  Make money for the mil-indy complex  C)   Intimidate our puppets

So... even "losing" a war like vietnam accomplishes those tasks.
2013-02-03 02:35:44 AM  
3 votes:

TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


General Smedley Butler laughs at your complete ignorance from his grave.
2013-02-03 12:51:59 AM  
3 votes:
Man, I love threads like this.

Really gives you a good look at both the old-school and new/emerging trolls. I don't ever block people (why would I block the people whose stupidity and animosity toward their fellow human beings is so amusing)--but if I did--it's threads like this one that would allow me to really fill up my list.

The entertainment I get from the fact that there is a large segment of human detritus that can so eloquently bait really smart people into turning into blithering idiots is nearly impossible to find outside of high schools and mental asylums.

Keep up the good work, Farkers, I love your acerbic turd-flinging. It's better than a monkey-sh*t fight at the zoo.
2013-02-03 12:44:26 AM  
3 votes:

super_grass: The sniper is farking coward. There is no honor in killing someone from a distance with the flex of a finger.



So by your take on things, bomber pilots and crews during WWII were cowards because they killed from a distance with just a simple motion?
2013-02-03 12:36:05 AM  
3 votes:
Instead of posting your opinions here, I think some of you should talk about your idiotic beliefs right outside your local VFW Hall.
2013-02-03 12:34:54 AM  
3 votes:

Frank N Stein: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.

They're ignoring your trolling. It's pretty fail, bro.

It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.

He's a hero because he went to a foreign land, put himself in extreme danger and extreme discomfort, to kill a bunch of people as commanded by the people you put in charge. Satisfactory answer?


Ehhhhh, I have to disagree. Forgetting Chris Kyle, that definition would make members of al Qaeda "heroes".
2013-02-03 12:32:48 AM  
3 votes:

Mad_Radhu: We obviously need to put armed guards at every gun range, so unhinged people like this don't see them as targets of opportunity.


FTFA: Routh, a former Marine who is said to suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome

Doesn't sound like this was a "target of opportunity" situation as much as a "it's really too bad how little attention or care we give to the effect war has on the mental health of the soldiers who fight it" situation.
2013-02-03 12:20:30 AM  
3 votes:
All that PTSD and suicidal behaviour coming home from a couple meaningless wars is going to really start to pile on.

I wonder if they'll gin up a war with Iran just to keep the army personnel from dragging home their murderous rage.
2013-02-03 12:19:07 AM  
3 votes:

ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.


Wow, that's stupid. Even for you.

You do realize that most "insurgents" were actually either A) Foreign Soldiers - namely from Iran, or B) Foreign Fighters who had killboners for Americans, right?
2013-02-03 12:15:52 AM  
3 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Wayne 985: Sad. However, was this the guy who made some bizarre claims about killing Muslims for Jesus, or something to that effect? I vaguely remember a famous American sniper who served in Iraq and made some really creepy comments about how he enjoyed killing people over there.

That was this guy.


Yup.

The guy might be a war hero, but I'm not too keen in having damaged goods being returned.
2013-02-03 12:14:50 AM  
3 votes:

ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.


Jesus wept, you are a sorry sack of ass
2013-02-03 12:14:33 AM  
3 votes:

Wayne 985: Sad. However, was this the guy who made some bizarre claims about killing Muslims for Jesus, or something to that effect? I vaguely remember a famous American sniper who served in Iraq and made some really creepy comments about how he enjoyed killing people over there.


That was this guy.
2013-02-03 12:10:36 AM  
3 votes:

HotWingAgenda: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm surprised you don't know that a lot of the "insurgents" in Iraq were from places like Yemen, Somalia, Lebanon, etc.  Even some Iranian covert ops teams working to destabilize the new regime.


The entire purpose of the Iraq war was to create instability.
2013-02-03 12:09:18 AM  
3 votes:

ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.


i513.photobucket.com
2013-02-03 12:08:49 AM  
3 votes:

ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.


I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm surprised you don't know that a lot of the "insurgents" in Iraq were from places like Yemen, Somalia, Lebanon, etc.  Even some Iranian covert ops teams working to destabilize the new regime.
2013-02-03 12:06:21 AM  
3 votes:
What was that about no shootings ever at a gun range again?
2013-02-03 12:06:11 AM  
3 votes:
He's going to have a whole bunch of pissed off ghosts waiting to greet him in the after world. Nobody likes a camper.
2013-02-03 05:40:58 PM  
2 votes:
Our side isn't perfect. Their side isn't perfect.

But our side provides a lot higher standard of living for those who choose to join it. Our side provides a bit more justice through the legal system. Our side allows people a bit more self determination. None of this is always true, but in general, these statements hold true.

Their side has their brilliant, brave snipers too, fighting for their cause. I rejoice when one of them are killed because it means fewer of those fighting for my side will die. They are no doubt rejoicing that this man is dead.

Tribes will always exist. Sometimes they're small bands, sometimes they've got millions of people. Hopefully they all evolve so the important differences become less nettlesome. But when when that happens, they'll still exist. Today, with the Super Bowl, one tribe takes the field of battle against another one. And we will cheer the side we perceive as our own.

// RIP Chris Kyle, and thanks for your service.
2013-02-03 03:32:38 PM  
2 votes:

barneyfifesbullet: The man was killed trying to help out a troubled fellow veteran.

Obama kids make fun, and/or spew their typical ignorant hate. It says a lot about you.

Nothing we didn't already know, though.


this guy was a religious fanatic who believed Jesus guided the bullets to kill his enemies.
He felt no remorse or guilt for killing. Lacking empathy. Whos to say he wouldnt have snapped
and shot up a bunch of people?  Or his family?
2013-02-03 02:57:22 PM  
2 votes:

paygun: Where do people come up with this crazy idea that the left hates the military?


People come up with that idea because they're incurious idiots who can't process nuance and insist that one must either love or hate something with no shades of gray.

That's how people come up with that idea.
2013-02-03 12:41:35 PM  
2 votes:

Gosling: There are a whooooooollllllle lot of people in this thread earning my scorn. I don't care what you think about guns. I don't care what you think about either of the wars. You don't go dancing on a war hero's grave before the body's even cold.

You want to discuss gun safety, you go right ahead. You want to discuss gun control, go right ahead. But dammit, people, you're not helping by turning the heat on Kyle.


He was a dick who killed 160 peeps (he bragged about it) all in the name of Jesus.

Yeah I can direct some scorn in that direction and a bit of karmic humour too (cannot believe this actually happened, its almost Twilight Zone outthere.)

Anyone who invokes the name of Jesus whilst killing gets my giggles and contempt.
2013-02-03 11:17:18 AM  
2 votes:
the_han: Then get off this pile of mismangaed dirt. Or are you doing anything to combat the systemic worldwide corruption you speak of? If you are not then you too are a pawn, paying your taxing and indirectly supporting this corrupted system. Would you have the nation/world revolt and expunge this systemic cancer we have all been supporting? If we are all just pawns, who is the chessmaster? the Rothschilds? The owners of the big banking systems that hold the marrionette strings? You sound like a David Icke believer. Shiat or get off the pot.

I never said I wasn't. Then again, it has not been my job to fix what was farked up by great great great grandparents. I had to google this Icke guy, not impressed. Seems like another fringe lunatic. No I'm more practical, I've stood on the steps of Capitol Hill next to my lobbyist employer and watched him increase his profit margins on investments in Iraq by buying votes on the floor with favors and stock options.  Realizing my paycheck was tied to his corruption, I bailed - and as a result more or less have stopped paying taxes.

No, military life as a child and listening to my Dad's corrupt commanders (one killed himself, another landed in the brig for Iran Contra involvement),  life experiences, personal research into our history beyond that of what public schools provide, and observation showed me that there is no one chess-master, as one would hope there would be.  Greed and plethora of sociopaths in levels of power keep the system balanced in their favor.  We are no better than the worse of our enemies in history and we're going to drive our entire culture into the ground unless we start owning up to it. A good start would be to stop glorifying our war for profit system.
2013-02-03 10:48:05 AM  
2 votes:
"Chris died doing what he filled his heart with passion - serving soldiers struggling with the fight to overcome PTSD."

So he was helping veterans with PTSD by- what, taking them to a gun range?

"Investigators said Routh, a former Marine and expert marksman who is said to suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome, is believed to have turned his weapon on Kyle and the second victim, killing them both at point-blank range about 3:30 p.m. "

Well, that worked about as well as one would expect. And speaking as a veteran with PTSD, thanks so much guys for exacerbating those stereotypes.
2013-02-03 10:47:38 AM  
2 votes:

drayno76: Sure, we 'did' good things. Like ridding Germany Europe of Hitler


Kind of an important distinction, as opposed to what we did with Saddam Hussein.
2013-02-03 10:47:33 AM  
2 votes:

USP .45: I know you're super excited that you think this forward your politics


What a cowardly way to start phrasing your comment. If you're so afraid your position is so weak that you have to start out with an intentionally contentious strawman, why bother making your position known at all? Better to remain silent and all that.

USP .45: but how do you both explain troops carrying rifles, and the fact that when they fight each other there are casualties?


I don't have to explain anything of the sort. I'm not part of the crowd that keeps standing up after after every shooting and saying that a gun is the only facet that wasn't relevant to the most recent shooting.

See, having taken the (obviously common sense and only justifiable) position that all facets of the gun violence problem must be investigated and solutions to all parts must be offered and discussed, I have the luxury of not having any silly, cherry-picked nonsense to explain away.

But, no, seriously. I just read through all your other contributions to this thread. Don't worry, I don't expect anything smarter than the drrr drrr derp you've posted so far.
2013-02-03 10:44:18 AM  
2 votes:

the_han: I'm done skimming the 600 some odd comments of incendiary trolling by Fark's elite left. Basement dwelling 13 year olds, the lot of you. At least that is the picture you paint. I'm not saying just because we serve, and you people are acting like asshats, that you should walk a mile in a soldier's shoes, but gotdamn. Welcome to Fark, I get it.

When the Maersk Alabama situation was ended by the Seals, you cheered.


No I didn't.

When Bin Laden's douchey flame was expunged by Seals, you applauded and raved that these men were heroes.

No I didn't.

These guys live hard lives. Speak harsh, act harsh, and usually die in a violent manner.

They made their choices, it's not like they were drafted.

Thank christ I do not rely on you leaf eating tree hugging hispter douche anti American vaginas for the defense of this nation. You live your comfy lives without the sounds smells and sights of war because of us. If you do not understand this, and I am sure most don't, You're farking welcome. Ungrateful douches.


I tend not to celebrate when people are sent to die and kill by profiteers seeking to increase their stock dividend. I see little value in any warfare that occurred since roughly 1940. Sure, we 'did' good things. Like ridding Germany of Hitler, maybe; but even that was not as honorable as history fictionalizes for us. We went for money, just like every other war. Stop deluding yourself into thinking you're special because you're employer gives you a gun. You are an employee of a long series of companies that use you as a renewable asset which can be used to obtain property, companies, and political power where once the U.S. had little. It's not patriotic, it's being a pawn. I don't mourn pawns on a chess board, I don't mourn simpletons who can't see their being used, and I don't mourn individuals who are hoodwinked into believing they're fighting for good. The last heroes in the US were the idealistic, hipsters, and were given the choice to go to Vietnam and die/come back crazy, or go to prison. Anyone who goes for profit or simply because they love killing are sick. Those who go for a free ride through college are desperate. Those who go because they were brainwashed into loving this pile of mismanaged dirt, well they're just special.
2013-02-03 07:56:19 AM  
2 votes:

crab66: publikenemy: Rep. Charles Rangel D-NY said that our armed forces come from the "lowest economic echelon we have."

This is a factual statement.

It seems more like you really want to take offense where there is none just to fit the narrative you have been fed.


I think the question to be asking is whether military recruitment officers tend to position themselves geographically where they're going to find folk from the low economic echelon. People who enlist themselves without the assistance of recruiters may well be from a broader range of economic backgrounds.
2013-02-03 07:28:58 AM  
2 votes:

publikenemy: Rep. Charles Rangel D-NY said that our armed forces come from the "lowest economic echelon we have."


This is a factual statement.

It seems more like you really want to take offense where there is none just to fit the narrative you have been fed.
2013-02-03 06:47:53 AM  
2 votes:
So if arguably the world's greatest shot and decorated war veteran can't protect even himself while armed, the concealed carry argument suddenly looks eve sillier.
2013-02-03 06:31:57 AM  
2 votes:

Enemabag Jones: Don't judge people for random psychological abilities. Ability to abstract their job functions based on nature/nurture does not mean he enjoyed it.


He wrote a book about it and, as another poster put it, spiked the football. I've got no sympathy for the idiots who enlist to kill thousands of innocent people just so they can live off redneck welfare for the rest of their lives.

i.imgur.com

So I say again, good riddance you pathological waste of humanity.

i.imgur.com
2013-02-03 06:07:26 AM  
2 votes:

publikenemy: If there were a WW2 like war in our era it would be quite comical to see all you little pussies who like to bash the military curl up in your pussy fetal positions and hide in your attics and crawl spaces to get out of fighting. We would absolutely lose if we had to rely on additional manpower via a draft because all the pussies would be quivering in fear and not willing to give up your nice cozy living.

Everyone has it way too good, thinking that the unthinkable could never happen here. We are all free to be weak and weak minded because your recent history tells you that war will never come knocking on our doors, but history has shown that even the strongest most stabile societies end up conquered at some point...it can happen, though most likely not in our lifetimes.

For a minute though it would be funny to see all the libs crying for help from the dirty military they like to  deride so easily


publikenemy: If there were a WW2 like war in our era it would be quite comical to see all you little pussies who like to bash the military curl up in your pussy fetal positions and hide in your attics and crawl spaces to get out of fighting. We would absolutely lose if we had to rely on additional manpower via a draft because all the pussies would be quivering in fear and not willing to give up your nice cozy living.

Everyone has it way too good, thinking that the unthinkable could never happen here. We are all free to be weak and weak minded because your recent history tells you that war will never come knocking on our doors, but history has shown that even the strongest most stabile societies end up conquered at some point...it can happen, though most likely not in our lifetimes.

For a minute though it would be funny to see all the libs crying for help from the dirty military they like to  deride so easily


Yeah, the US was totally not pussying out for the entire first 2 years of WW2 when they had a formal position of neutrality. Funny how Americans never discuss this.
2013-02-03 05:27:04 AM  
2 votes:

TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


In a war of aggression, the only heroes are those who refuse to participate.
2013-02-03 05:23:12 AM  
2 votes:
1.  Let this be a lesson to the chicken hawks (not that it will take), but the wars you're so gung-ho about have an extremely negative impact on your heroes.  Wouldn't you rather have these tough, courageous souls protecting our cities and borders instead of killing ferners who don't threaten us?

2.  Add gun ranges to the list of places where we need armed guards to eliminate senseless shootings.

Hospitals
Elementary schools
Army bases
Movie theaters
Houses
Apartments
Workplaces
Gun ranges
2013-02-03 04:21:36 AM  
2 votes:

joness0154: This shiat this guy went through - and did - when his country asked him to would make many of you skinny jeans wearing sad sacks of shiat quiver up in a corner screaming for mommy and a pacifier.

Even if you don't agree with the politics behind everything, don't come posting in here celebrating his death, particularly when it came at the hands of a coward who he was genuinely trying to help. Some of you guys are sick.

RIP Mr. Kyle


Wait, but the guy who killed him was a marine, who had an awful mental condition that went untreated.  So he's a coward? Not a hero?  The marine served his country, did things he really didn't want to do which left him mentally scarred, and now is being called a coward.
2013-02-03 04:07:03 AM  
2 votes:
Another reminder that for those we send to fight, war never end.

They carry it with them every where they go, every day of their lives.

It's too bad that kid had to take two of his fellow soldiers with him... terrible tragedy.

/those internet badasses here lacking any ounce of dignity or respect, enjoy your gun thread jack off session
2013-02-03 03:23:06 AM  
2 votes:
This shiat this guy went through - and did - when his country asked him to would make many of you skinny jeans wearing sad sacks of shiat quiver up in a corner screaming for mommy and a pacifier.

Even if you don't agree with the politics behind everything, don't come posting in here celebrating his death, particularly when it came at the hands of a coward who he was genuinely trying to help. Some of you guys are sick.

RIP Mr. Kyle
2013-02-03 03:06:04 AM  
2 votes:

crackwhore: alright.   i didnt want to believe in the hoax theories behind all the recent gun violence/media coverage.   but this is just retarded.      gun related death at a shooting range???   COMEON  this HAS to be satire.


I know, right?  Next thing you know there'll be a shooting in a gun factory and we'll need more guns to protect the gun makers from gun violence and and and
2013-02-03 03:00:23 AM  
2 votes:
men of this country will swear on their graves that dying for your homeland makes you a hero,   but in the same token,  will condemn or can not understand a suicide bomber for doing exactly what HE believes is the same thing, for HIS country.    your conditioning by our anthem is flimsy,   you have the choice to educate yourselves on exactly how far OUR government will go to shut up or even remove its own citizens from existence without a second thought.    everything you have been taught is wrong,   it is time to research things with an OPEN MIND and from a view that is not biased and carefully crafted and fed to you by people of authority with alterior motives.
2013-02-03 02:36:13 AM  
2 votes:
Mental illness caused by our culture of war.

We'll be seeing more of this, we've f*cked up a lot of people in the last 10 or so years.
2013-02-03 02:21:41 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: Riothamus: BronyMedic: Riothamus: Umm, the Vietnam War very clearly did not stop the spread of Communism in Vietnam.

No, Star Wars did that.

?

Normally I have this dude on ignore, but did I just get Poe's Law-ed?

Communist forces completely overran Vietnam and Vietnam is still a single-party state. Communism very successfully spread throughout the entire country!
This is basic reading comprehension!

You completely, entirely misread what I said, and you're lecturing me on reading comprehension?

Vietnam was a MILITARY victory for the United States. At the time of the pullout, we had accomplished our military objectives in that conflict. However, we had also propped up a corrupt, puppet regieme which had NO legitimacy among it's people, was just as brutal as the North, and which had no will to fight for it's own existance because the Americans had done it for so long.

Star Wars, and weapons research funding killed communism as a whole across the World as the great evil. The United States, and it's allies, could afford to outspend the Soviet Union and did so gleefully.


No, I construed your words EXACTLY AS THEY APPEARED.

BronyMedic: Riothamus: Umm, the Vietnam War very clearly did not stop the spread of Communism in Vietnam.

No, Star Wars did that.


Yeah, you misread what I said. Reading comprehension.

And just how in the hell did the US accomplish a military victory in Vietnam? I know our boys weren't necessarily beaten in the field, but we wasted nearly a decade, God only knows how much money, and 58,000 American lives only to let our sworn enemies achieve their primary objective. Namely, complete control over Vietnam.

And the Soviet high command knew that Star Wars was a load of bullshiat. They already had multiple-warhead ICBMs that could beat the system and they knew the numbers were on their side. shiat, they only had 45,000 warheads in 1985. Assuming that 10% of them were deliverable via ICBM (a complete random guess, probably lowballing here), a missile defense system with even a 90% kill rate (incredibly optimistic when you're talking about the technical challenges TODAY, let alone 30 years ago) would still result in 450 nuclear detonations on US soil. And that would be the very best-case scenario. On average, that's 9 mushroom clouds per state. We weren't risking nuclear war and they knew it.

Instead, one man's conscience and desire for peace brought down the Soviet Empire from within. When Mikhail Gorbachev took power, he saw two choices. He could either crack down on his people a la Prague Spring and Budapest 1956, or he could liberalize the Eastern Bloc and permit some freedoms. Once he broke the state's terrifying mystique, there was no turning back.

If not for Gorby, the Soviet Union easily could have lasted another 20+ years as a stagnant and poor police state.
2013-02-03 02:12:55 AM  
2 votes:

Mrbogey: sheep snorter: Back in Saint Reagans day, these people were the heroes.

[i.imgur.com image 485x237]

Don't you ever do basic research before posting internet memes? The Taliban weren't around in the 80s and most of those men in the room weren't part of it when it was created.



The original photo is from around 1984. It appeared in the NYT. The photo lists the names of the people meeting with Reagan which could easily be googled but it wouldn't fit the agenda of the person who made the photo trying to tie Reagan to the Taliban.

One of the people in the photo is Ahmad Shah Massaud one of the founders of the Muj. He was ordered assassinated by UBL. The assassination took place Septembet 8th 2001.  The Northern Alliance was fighting the Taliban long before September 11th. UBL saw Massaud as a threat since Massaud was allied with the US. One of the other guys is Burhanuddin Rabbani another founder of the Muj. He survived various assassination attempts by the Taliban in the years before 9-11. They finally murdered him in 2011 via suicide bomber.The third whos name escapes me was also an ally of the US but he died of natural causes, very rare for an Afghan who spent his entire life fighting the Soviets and then the Taliban.

oh and thanks :)
2013-02-03 02:07:16 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: wademh: BronyMedic: drayno76: Well shiat, you did that on page 1. Cap't 'Murica....

I'm not the one revising history to suit his agenda. I'm pretty anti-war in general, and I've been against getting involved in Iraq since day one, but to pull a comparison to Nazi Germany out of your ass with the United States demonstrates you have no idea what you're talking about in the least, and only want to compare the two for an emotional appeal.

Call me when the United States Army is marching into Prague and rounding up everyone by their ethnicity to shoot and gas.

Logic remains logic. You, BronyMedic, are the one giving a pass to anyone who is serving in the US military. You show no sense of qualification in your admiration for anyone who does so. You were presented with the logical extension. It is apparent that you have no honest response and have been exposed.

You're absolutely right. Clearly what you read by logical extension means I support and honor soldiers who violate the code set forth by the Geneva and the Hague conventions, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the ethos and honor of their respective branch.

Despite never stating any of that.

Logic.(-al fallacies!) It makes you Psychic!


Sorry child, but you need a lesson in logic. You do not get to add things to what I said, certainly not to claim it was what I was saying.
You made a very blanket claim early on

The constraints you cite were crafted in response (in large part) to the Nazi's in a post-hoc itemization of approved military morality. As recent history shows, lawyers are fully capable of twisting these to justify torture. Sorry but just because some action is deemed permissible by somebody's interpretation of the rules of the game does not make such action in the service of ones country "heroic".  I cut young soldiers a great deal of slack. They are young. Often they are naive. They are locked into a culture that lends itself to a suspension of nominally moral behavior. It becomes easy to do the wrong thing for what appears to be the right reasons. But there's a world of difference between cutting somebody some slack and anointing them as heroes. Moreover, and to the critical point, blanket and unquestioning praise of any and all who act according to orders promotes the very sort of blind obedience that fosters abuse. There is nothing heroic about parking your brain and following orders in an unquestioning manner. I am caution about condemning those who do so. But it is a unquestionably a gross mistake to uniformly praise people for it.
2013-02-03 01:50:00 AM  
2 votes:

Lunger42: Is this what it's like in the politics tab?


Yep. I switched off my ignore list for this thread. It tripled the posts.
2013-02-03 01:45:03 AM  
2 votes:
He was a sniper not a quickdraw.
2013-02-03 01:42:43 AM  
2 votes:
Just getting here, how far does Brony have his head up his ass?
2013-02-03 01:39:05 AM  
2 votes:
My condolences to his friends and family.

.

DIAF, trolls. Slowly.
2013-02-03 01:33:24 AM  
2 votes:
Looking over this thread, it seems as though some of the more retarded yahoo posters have discovered Fark.
2013-02-03 01:26:11 AM  
2 votes:
I must say, this thread has the absolute best showing of trolling that I have ever seen. Seriously, I have never seen this much trolling and of such high caliber all in one place.
2013-02-03 01:12:35 AM  
2 votes:

drayno76: [arolemodel.com image 529x650]


Says the asshole that failed to act upon the Sith threat before it took hold.
2013-02-03 01:05:47 AM  
2 votes:

wademh: Truth remains more nuanced. If that blind patriotic sense is so praiseworthy, then you have to start praising Nazi soldiers. Again, sorry but reality is far more nuanced.


Yes, but when you feel that doubt creeping in, you have to quash it down by doubling down on belief in your own people, like a good nationalist. In the same way that when a religious person feels a crisis of faith, they become zealots to squelch the scary reality.
2013-02-03 01:01:16 AM  
2 votes:

Johnsnownw: The lead never killed anyone. Twas the gunpowder that gave the lead the energy to penetrate flesh that killed people.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
"The bullet punctures the guy's flesh, but the gunpowder propels the bullet... who is the real hero?"
2013-02-03 12:57:06 AM  
2 votes:

super_grass: Frank N Stein: super_grass: Better edgy and sharp than dull and slow.

/ Proud to be edgy.
/ Proud to be atheist.
/ Proud to educate people on the internet.

You do realize that the edgy label is sarcastic, right? You don't seem to be as sharp as you like to fancy yourself.

Keep telling yourself that, sheep.

I spend my days blacking out the word "god" on dollar bills and convincing people on the internet that war should be fought with swords (preferably katanas) and honor like the old days.

I make a difference. What do you do besides wasting all your time on that idiocy you call "employment"?


f.kulfoto.com

Seriously. Just, just stop.
2013-02-03 12:49:56 AM  
2 votes:
Currently, 4.6 posts/min. First Godwin was 31 minutes into the thread, at 12:34:02 Central time.
2013-02-03 12:46:39 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: HempHead: Kill boners! LOL!

[www.splicetoday.com image 420x279]
[www.kenthaber.com image 300x199]
[www.southernstudies.org image 250x202]

I KNOW, RIGHT! INNOCENT PEOPLE!
[www.lindasog.com image 410x303]
[www.chinadaily.com.cn image 350x289]

[www.theage.com.au image 200x516]




toobbox.com
2013-02-03 12:44:26 AM  
2 votes:

Smackledorfer: Was this the same sniper who talked about how god guided all his shots and it was god's will they died

If so it is still a shame when someone gets murdered, but I don't have the spare tears for self-righteous angels of death.




You know, my grandfather fought in WWI. He was in a Scottish-Canadian regiment and spent a helluva lot of time in the trenches. I don't think he ever said anything about God guiding anybody's hand during the fighting back then.

How the hell did we become such conceited assholes since then?
2013-02-03 12:43:38 AM  
2 votes:
I take the family to Rough Creek Lodge about 3 times per year. It's a really nice/luxury resort in the middle of nowhere Texas, with areas for sporting clays, bird hunts, safari-style camping, and spa nonsense for the lady folk. It is not at all a typical gun range. I say this because some would expect other gun owners at a range to use their weapons to shoot back at a guy like this. Rough Creek is so spread out that it is unusual to run into other guests. This shooting could have gone unnoticed for long time.

/spectacular Beretta outfitter
2013-02-03 12:42:27 AM  
2 votes:

super_grass: BronyMedic: super_grass: BronyMedic: super_grass: [i970.photobucket.com image 553x700]

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.

[www.sadanduseless.com image 600x435]

I don't glorify murder.

Now go wave a flag like a good little Amerifat.

Oh look. You're so edgy. It's not "glorifying murder" to honor someone who served his country with distinction and honor. And it's not "murder" to put a bullet in the head of another soldier in wartime who is in the process of gunning down your buddies.

No country, or law, in the entire world defines murder as a death in active combat. But you go right on farking that chicken.

What did he defend?  How did he serve?

He killed a bunch of people who posed zero danger to himself or his country.

If a teenager prison guard can be indicted half a century after serving for Nazi Germany, then an adult solder deserves no sympathy for serving imperial america.


I will play Devil's advocate here and state that technically, he DID defend his comrades on numerous occasions (yes, I read the book). But yeah, it doesn't really make up for the fact that A) the war was a waste and B) this man clearly liked killing and could just as easily have been a serial killer in another life. I actually feel sympathy for most military personnel who have to serve in these wasteful excursions. But this guy was a certified dick.
2013-02-03 12:38:44 AM  
2 votes:

halB: I'm shocked.

If a man starts shooting people at a gun range, you would figure he would be put down by everyone else at the range as an act of self defense.

I have no idea how he made it away from that range, unless it was a backwoods range where you only find a handful of people shooting.

At a range with 10+ people, that guy would've been toast from the first shot.


Not so much.  If he murdered the others quickly and then discarded/dropped his gun, no one would have any legal right to shoot him at that point.
2013-02-03 12:37:22 AM  
2 votes:
Tommy

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I: O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play. I went into a theatre as sober as could be,They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls! For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide. Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleepIs cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bitIs five times better business than paradin' in full kit. Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll. We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind", But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind. You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our faceThe Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace. For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
2013-02-03 12:37:06 AM  
2 votes:

Wayne 985: Ehhhhh, I have to disagree. Forgetting Chris Kyle, that definition would make members of al Qaeda "heroes".


And to their people, they are. It's all subjective, people.
2013-02-03 12:36:38 AM  
2 votes:

McFifenstein: God bless and God speed. Snipers are a special breed. Killers in every respect. Its what they are trained and deployed to do.


This post encapsulates America's gun culture for me.God, guns and glory. Yeehaa!
2013-02-03 12:36:33 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.

If you're actually being serious? He's a hero for undertaking a mission which only a select group of human beings, the number of which could be counted in the low thousands, in the history of the United States have been able to do. In doing so, he placed himself at extreme risk of capture by an enemy who would neither respect the laws and conventions of warfare, but would gleefully do horrific things to his corpse long after tortuing and murdering him to do so. His mission not only placed him in the realm of disproportionate risk as a soldier, but also provided a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer, allowing American and allied forces to do what they needed to do, without endangering civilians and noncombattants as much as a drone strike or artillery strike would have.

He did this while honoribly serving his country, and upholding the laws and values of the UCMJ and the conventions which we stuck to, even while others didn't.

So yes. That's why he's a hero. Some people aren't satisfied being BASH Commandos in a cubicle.


Summary: he's a hero because some bureaucrats wanted him to snipe some people, and he enjoyed that type of work, so he did it. Awesome. As is typical, you draw a big implicit line at the point of actually questioning the value of said service, and take it for granted that mere service is grounds for "heroism". What makes him any more heroic than any sniper for any other country in any other war? And...go!
2013-02-03 12:36:07 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: super_grass: BronyMedic: super_grass: [i970.photobucket.com image 553x700]

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.

[www.sadanduseless.com image 600x435]

I don't glorify murder.

Now go wave a flag like a good little Amerifat.

Oh look. You're so edgy. It's not "glorifying murder" to honor someone who served his country with distinction and honor. And it's not "murder" to put a bullet in the head of another soldier in wartime who is in the process of gunning down your buddies.

No country, or law, in the entire world defines murder as a death in active combat. But you go right on farking that chicken.


What did he defend?  How did he serve?

He killed a bunch of people who posed zero danger to himself or his country.

If a teenager prison guard can be indicted half a century after serving for Nazi Germany, then an adult solder deserves no sympathy for serving imperial america.
2013-02-03 12:35:15 AM  
2 votes:
Between this and Fort Hood, those soldiers down in Texas don't seem all that good at defending themselves against crazy guys with guns.
2013-02-03 12:34:43 AM  
2 votes:

wademh: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero

I'm not clear on what makes a sniper a hero.


The chef in the mess hall.
2013-02-03 12:33:47 AM  
2 votes:

Smackledorfer: Bit if he joined because he fell for propaganda and wanted to serve at risk of his own life.. Well that is a hero isn't it?


You talking about the SEAL or the Marine?
2013-02-03 12:33:20 AM  
2 votes:

TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


I'm not clear on what makes a sniper a hero.
2013-02-03 12:26:55 AM  
2 votes:

ontariolightning: preybyemail: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

Jesus wept, you are a sorry sack of ass

Jesus is a fictional character.


An atheist? On the internet?

Your surfing the next wave man. On the razors edge! Thats some ground breaking shiat!

Tell us how you told off your moms xtian friend on facebook that one time.
2013-02-03 12:26:49 AM  
2 votes:

KarmicDisaster: super_grass:
[i970.photobucket.com image 553x700]

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.

The amusing thing is, Romney included the military in the "47% who need to pay their fair share".


Everyday I hope that Obama calls for a drone strike on the Faux News HQ.
2013-02-03 12:21:23 AM  
2 votes:

Frank N Stein: nmemkha: The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.

How are his actions Heroic? How has any war after W II been worth the lives it destroyed? Our soldiers aren't defending anything but a  mercenary's paycheck paid by the blood of the The People on behalf of corporate interests.

Relax. We all appreciate your IT job, too. Thank you for your service.


Amusing post, but honestly, it has become a bad cliche to label people "heroes" and then have zero apparent ability to back it up said claim with reason.
2013-02-03 12:20:43 AM  
2 votes:

drayno76: ...and the Feds want to take away OUR guns?  Fark that, we need to take away the Governments guns, they obviously have no clue how to operate them safely.


What article did you read? In this one, a civilian at a civilian range murdered two men with his personal weapon.  Several involved have a federal-service background, but that's it.

The government agents managed to apprehend the unstable shooter without anyone else getting shot.  I'm not one for gun confiscations or bans, but the civilian gun owner in this story looks freaking BAD, and none of the other gunslingers there could do anything to stop him.
2013-02-03 12:19:12 AM  
2 votes:

nmemkha: The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.

How are his actions Heroic? How has any war after W II been worth the lives it destroyed? Our soldiers aren't defending anything but a  mercenary's paycheck paid by the blood of the The People on behalf of corporate interests.


Relax. We all appreciate your IT job, too. Thank you for your service.
2013-02-03 12:12:10 AM  
2 votes:
Sad. However, was this the guy who made some bizarre claims about killing Muslims for Jesus, or something to that effect? I vaguely remember a famous American sniper who served in Iraq and made some really creepy comments about how he enjoyed killing people over there.
2013-02-03 12:11:07 AM  
2 votes:
Oh wow, I have a gun nut friend who is constantly posting on Facebook how you never see shootings at gun ranges. This is getting forwarded to him.
2013-02-03 12:10:12 AM  
2 votes:

ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.


i106.photobucket.com
2013-02-03 12:08:03 AM  
2 votes:

Frank N Stein: deadliest sniper in U.S. history

He never killed anyone. His gun did.


I doubt it.  I suspect the bullets had more to do with it.
2013-02-03 12:07:52 AM  
2 votes:

Frank N Stein: deadliest sniper in U.S. history

He never killed anyone. His gun did.


His gun never killed anyone either, you dirty lib.  It's the bullets that are generally fatal.
2013-02-03 12:06:12 AM  
2 votes:
G*d D@mmit, everyone hates a TK.
2013-02-03 12:06:10 AM  
2 votes:
Maybe he'll write a horribly trite and self-serving book about it if the logistics don't get in the way.
2013-02-04 04:44:27 PM  
1 votes:

ficklefkrfark: maram500: "Deadliest?" All because he put over 160 enemy combatants down? No. Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock would likely disagree. Plus, Chief Kyle got wounded--twice, at least--which kind of makes him a human target compared to Gunny Hathcock. I have a reasonable amount of respect for people who come out of the sandbox alive and (mostly) in one piece, but if you train to be a SEAL sniper and then you get wounded, somewhere along the way your training failed you. Of course this is the same guy that made a killshot from over a mile away (2,100 yards was the figure I've seen).

As much respect as I have for him getting out of the Middle East alive, that respect is heavily tempered with the fact that he wrote a friggin' book about it. Don't brag. He killed people and made a pretty amazing shot, but he spiked the football and wrote a book about it--seriously not cool.

So let's see: He's not the "deadliest." (Duh.) But he made a 2,100-yard shot. (Good.) And then he wrote a book (bad)...a book which Republicans are probably wanking to nightly (eww).

Remember this the next time someone says that bullcrap line about stopping bad guys with guns by having a good guy with a gun nearby.

He wasn't strictly a sniper, also served as a seal in regular capacity....door kicker, house clearing, body snatching...don't know his story, but I'd bet he was wounded during more close quarters encounters.

/maybe not a hero, but did an exceptional job serving his country...and providing over watch protection for fellow soldiers.
//agree or disagree with the politics, the troops are just doing what we ask of them, and trying to get back home alive


"...serving his country..." You use that phrase, but I do not think it means what you think. Similarly: "...what we ask of them..." And here we go:

Serving your country means doing something that defends, promotes, secures, or betters your country. It does not mean going across the world to force something on a sovereign state--regardless of whether that sovereign state is or is not "good" according to your morality. More, the war in Iraq--where Chief Kyle served--was not waged because "we" asked the men and women in uniform to do it. In this case the "we" was a very, very small group of politicians who thought that Iraq might be a great place to get oil for a really cheap price.

Don't attack me. I'm just stating what I believe, and it just happens to be supported by a few inconvenient facts.
2013-02-04 03:48:05 PM  
1 votes:
Lot of familiar posters who practically creamed themselves when the U.S. military took out Osama.
2013-02-03 11:51:41 PM  
1 votes:

Wayne 985: To be a hero, you actually have to do some good in the world with a rational mindset. Throwing acid in a girl's face and then shooting at the people who go to stop you isn't really heroism, no matter how much they delude themselves.


If you want to see what a hero actually looks like google Matthew Lukwiya.
2013-02-03 10:12:40 PM  
1 votes:

LavenderWolf: Wayne 985: Frank N Stein: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.

They're ignoring your trolling. It's pretty fail, bro.

It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.

He's a hero because he went to a foreign land, put himself in extreme danger and extreme discomfort, to kill a bunch of people as commanded by the people you put in charge. Satisfactory answer?

Ehhhhh, I have to disagree. Forgetting Chris Kyle, that definition would make members of al Qaeda "heroes".

And one day you'll realize that, in their own way, to their own mindset, terrorists *are* heroes.

To Americans, US soldiers, seamen, and airmen are heroes. It's not that complicated. Don't be obtuse.


To be a hero, you actually have to do some good in the world with a rational mindset. Throwing acid in a girl's face and then shooting at the people who go to stop you isn't really heroism, no matter how much they delude themselves.
2013-02-03 09:30:01 PM  
1 votes:
screw this new entry box
2013-02-03 08:07:06 PM  
1 votes:
JungleBoogie: Our side isn't perfect. Their side isn't perfect.

But our side provides a lot higher standard of living for those who choose to join it. Our side provides a bit more justice through the legal system. Our side allows people a bit more self determination. None of this is always true, but in general, these statements hold true.

Their side has their brilliant, brave snipers too, fighting for their cause. I rejoice when one of them are killed because it means fewer of those fighting for my side will die. They are no doubt rejoicing that this man is dead.

Tribes will always exist. Sometimes they're small bands, sometimes they've got millions of people. Hopefully they all evolve so the important differences become less nettlesome. But when when that happens, they'll still exist. Today, with the Super Bowl, one tribe takes the field of battle against another one. And we will cheer the side we perceive as our own.

// RIP Chris Kyle, and thanks for your service.
=============================================
cegorach: Your side also murders women and children more efficiently by a factor of a few hundred, and people in general by a factor of a few thousand.

But you live in a propaganda fantasy world of cowboys and indians while their side lives next door to houses flattened by US bombs.

Still, their fault for being brown skinned, not having massive corporate interests who wish to reap the financial benefits of waging perpetual war and lacking an omnipresent media who glorifies the murder of foreigners and justifies illegal wars with insane propaganda.

And freedom, they lack that too.

Maybe they should have a War of Independence against America, would that make them heroes too?

=============================================
If they did not aid and abet Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, we would not be in their country.

If the Taliban would renounce their unapologetic anti-American platform, we would not be concerned with their country.

However, they sowed the wind. And now they are reaping the whirlwind. It is childish of them to think that they can aid and abet aggressive anti-American groups of proven lethality (recall 9/11), while not incurring any consequence.

The dead non-combatants are extremely tragic. However, 2 out of 3 non-combatant deaths are caused by the Taliban. Despite not having the standoff weaponry. Our drones are like high precision optics on a rifle. They allow for much more precise killing than is possible with the previous generation of weapons.

Our side is not perfect. Their side is not perfect. IMHO, in terms of standard of living, justice and self-determination, their side is much, much less perfect.
2013-02-03 07:51:20 PM  
1 votes:
Late to the party and just as well.

Chris Kyle was no psychopath. He was becoming a media figure with the publication of his book - and was very plugged into both the talk show and evangelical circuits as a speaker. Fifteen minutes on YouTube make it obvious that he was compelling and charismatic. He had a thriving training business and influential non-profit. And he was fearless about discussing and assessing the effects of war on soldiers and their families. He was lifting the veil on the military machine in a way that is really not being done. Make no mistake, in an era where Joe The Plumber gets his 15 minutes of fame, this guy was on his way to being huge.

I have to wonder if he was getting into position to bring attention to some uncomfortable truths about War, Inc. I also wonder how many sensitive secrets he learned over the years. And yes, I do wonder if someone shot him for no apparent reason, or if someone shot him for an evil reason, and left a patsy to take the fall. It's not like it's never been done.

Flame away.
2013-02-03 06:43:02 PM  
1 votes:

JungleBoogie: Our side isn't perfect. Their side isn't perfect.

But our side provides a lot higher standard of living for those who choose to join it. Our side provides a bit more justice through the legal system. Our side allows people a bit more self determination. None of this is always true, but in general, these statements hold true.

Their side has their brilliant, brave snipers too, fighting for their cause. I rejoice when one of them are killed because it means fewer of those fighting for my side will die. They are no doubt rejoicing that this man is dead.

Tribes will always exist. Sometimes they're small bands, sometimes they've got millions of people. Hopefully they all evolve so the important differences become less nettlesome. But when when that happens, they'll still exist. Today, with the Super Bowl, one tribe takes the field of battle against another one. And we will cheer the side we perceive as our own.

// RIP Chris Kyle, and thanks for your service.


Your side also murders women and children more efficiently by a factor of a few hundred, and people in general by a factor of a few thousand.

But you live in a propaganda fantasy world of cowboys and indians while their side lives next door to houses flattened by US bombs.

Still, their fault for being brown skinned, not having massive corporate interests who wish to reap the financial benefits of waging perpetual war and lacking an omnipresent media who glorifies the murder of foreigners and justifies illegal wars with insane propaganda.

And freedom, they lack that too.

Maybe they should have a War of Independence against America, would that make them heroes too?
2013-02-03 06:38:29 PM  
1 votes:

dascott: mikebdoss: MadMagnum: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero

Describe how he was a hero. And...go.

Most of his work post military has been getting veterans the help they need for PTSD.

And for all you smug bastards about gun control, it is telling about your souls when you celebrate someone's death.  I realize this is Fark, the trailerpark of the internet, but every once in a while you need to remind the trash that everyone has a mother and father who mourn them.

So did every single person he shot and killed.

Maybe all of this victims should have thought of that before they picked up a gun and entered into a civil war of genocide for power.  Hey, idiots who think these people were 'defending their homeland' - they were doing the OPPOSITE OF THAT.   The only thing stopping those people from murdering each other to extinction was Saddam Hussein's iron grip and afterwards the US Military.


Was that because of the baby food factory or the terrorists who caused 9/11 partying with Saddam?

I forget which piece of retarded-ass propaganda nonsense to believe in.

You seem to be much better at consuming it, since apparently the US invasion of Iraq was all about their FREEDOM.

Which is no doubt a great relief to the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis post-US invasion.

Because Saddam was like killing millions of them each year before that with the chemical weapons baby food, amirite?
2013-02-03 06:31:27 PM  
1 votes:

drp: The best thing about these threads is how many awful human beings show their true nature.  Thanks, you cynical self-righteous hip/edgy douchebags, for helping me expand my "favorite" list.  It's so much easier to spot you when you're color coded.

/ RIP Chris Kyle


You don't even know why you admire him, beyond childish delusions. Chris Kyle was a TERRIBLE human being. Fark off.
2013-02-03 06:22:17 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: sheep snorter: Back in Saint Reagans day, these people were the heroes.

[i.imgur.com image 485x237]

Don't you ever do basic research before posting internet memes? The Taliban weren't around in the 80s and most of those men in the room weren't part of it when it was created.


Actually those men were Mujahideen in the Afghan war with the Soviets, many of whom went on to form the core of the Taliban's fighting force. So yes, although they were not called "Taliban" at that time, many of them can now be referred to as such.
2013-02-03 06:13:05 PM  
1 votes:
NRA statement: We should hire trained armed individuals protect these locations...oh wait.

Whether you have good guys shooting at bad guys or bad guys shooting at good guys you still have people shooting at people and that is never a good thing.
2013-02-03 05:02:24 PM  
1 votes:
Meh, some jarhead gets killed because his dumbass hands a gun to another shell-shocked jarhead. Darwin wins again.
2013-02-03 04:32:38 PM  
1 votes:

super_grass: 100 Watt Walrus: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

Sooo, by that logic, there's no tragedy in the deaths of any American soldiers who fired on anyone in Iraq.

Disagree with our nation's military goals, fine. But you're just being a dick about the death of someone who you know nothing about beyond a few highlights of their military career, with nothing further (let alone anything useful or insightful) to offer.

/yes, we should never have gone to Iraq

[i970.photobucket.com image 553x700]

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.


Yeah, no one should ever sign up for the military, in fact why do we have it in the first place? If we just dissolved all of our military then all war would end over night and no one would ever attack us in our defenseless state.  (damn where is that sarcasm font when you need it).

Really though, your post is one of the most ignorant pieces of tripe that I have ever read. Do the world a favor and the next time you are feeling depressed, remember to cut down your arm not across your wrist, it is more effective.
2013-02-03 03:40:38 PM  
1 votes:

dascott: Yes, mr snark dipshiat, because the people he killed were all people who likely would have killed many others.  He was killing murderers.


If someone had killed him 160 kills ago, then he would have been a person likely to have killed many others, and thus was a murderer himself deserving of murder?

It's always amusing when people are so sure of themselves that they put forth facts that only god could know. Are you god?
2013-02-03 03:39:10 PM  
1 votes:

barneyfifesbullet: The man was killed trying to help out a troubled fellow veteran.

Obama kids make fun, and/or spew their typical ignorant hate. It says a lot about you.

Nothing we didn't already know, though.


You are the only person I've added to my ignore list in this thread.  I guess that is some kind of accomplishment given all the derp.
2013-02-03 02:17:51 PM  
1 votes:

MadMagnum: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero

Describe how he was a hero. And...go.

Most of his work post military has been getting veterans the help they need for PTSD.

And for all you smug bastards about gun control, it is telling about your souls when you celebrate someone's death.  I realize this is Fark, the trailerpark of the internet, but every once in a while you need to remind the trash that everyone has a mother and father who mourn them.


So did every single person he shot and killed.
2013-02-03 01:49:36 PM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
2013-02-03 01:32:49 PM  
1 votes:

Shocktopus: GUTSU: Well this sucks, I guess crazy is a little hard to notice.

Especially in Texas.  It's like a haystack made out of needles.


Except "crazy" was handed a gun by the victim, who knew the guy was crazy.
2013-02-03 01:32:33 PM  
1 votes:
skinbubble: (Simo Hayha pic)

Never called his enemy "savages", never puffed up his ego with macho swagger, never used his Faith as a moral alibi, never had a reality TV show, never wrote a self-aggrandizing book, never expressed religious hatred for the enemy through a permanent tattoo, never sought a fortune off of his war exploits.

A person can be heroic at war with grace and honor. For those outraged at Fark's less-than-sacred response to Kyle's death, you'll get over it.

Relax.
2013-02-03 01:23:22 PM  
1 votes:

the_han: I'm done skimming the 600 some odd comments of incendiary trolling by Fark's elite left. Basement dwelling 13 year olds, the lot of you. At least that is the picture you paint. I'm not saying just because we serve, and you people are acting like asshats, that you should walk a mile in a soldier's shoes, but gotdamn. Welcome to Fark, I get it.

When the Maersk Alabama situation was ended by the Seals, you cheered. When Bin Laden's douchey flame was expunged by Seals, you applauded and raved that these men were heroes. These guys live hard lives. Speak harsh, act harsh, and usually die in a violent manner. Thank christ I do not rely on you leaf eating tree hugging hispter douche anti American vaginas for the defense of this nation. You live your comfy lives without the sounds smells and sights of war because of us. If you do not understand this, and I am sure most don't, You're farking welcome. Ungrateful douches.


Hi.  I understand your frustration, but what immediate threats to our nation has the military prevented in the last 30 years?  Going around the world kicking the asses of poor people and inflated threats (while spending a shiatload of my money) isn't exactly my idea of heroism.  We have a deal: you volunteer in the military, everyone else pays your wage and helps with education and housing when you get back.  Why did you enlist in the first place?
2013-02-03 01:21:38 PM  
1 votes:
This guy was an outspoken opponent of gun control.

I'll bet his family wishes there were stronger laws preventing the shooter from acquiring a gun.

/idiots
2013-02-03 01:11:21 PM  
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2013-02-03 12:57:45 PM  
1 votes:
Al Qaeda and the Taliban must be laughing their asses off:

• This guy was arguably one of the top firearms experts in the world, the top sniper in America's top commando unit.

• He survived 4 tours in Iraq, survived IED explosions and bounties placed on his head.

• He was unable to survive the American gun culture.

Marx said, "History repeats itself. The first time as tragedy, the second time as farce." We are well into farce territory.
2013-02-03 12:40:02 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: Smackledorfer: Corvus: This shows how BS the "guns defend people" fantasy is. When someone has the drop on you, you don't magically draw faster and out shoot someone because you are the "good guy". But I hear in these gun threads gun nuts pretend that's the case.

Eh, the fact that guns can't always defend against guns doesn't mean guns can't be used for defense.

Knives can be used for defense too. Bats can be used for defense. Fists can be used for defense.  None of those guarantee you a win against a surprise attack, so therefore it is all fantasy?

WHat? Fists exist therefore good guys can out fire bad guys? Did that seem logical in your head?

I never said any of those things guarantee anything.


You said that because you don't magically draw faster than someone who gets the drop on you that "guns defend people" is a fantasy.

So I pointed out that just because guns don't always succeed at defending against guns does not mean that guns cannot be used for defense.  Then, in case you wanted to continue your irrational argument, I pointed out other forms of weapon that can be used for defense but still won't be 100% effective in various scenarios.  I figured you would take the hint and apply the same logic to any other weapon as you do to guns.  Instead of clarifying your point or backing down from it, you went all wonky.

Care to restate your point in another way if I'm reading it wrong?

I
2013-02-03 12:19:27 PM  
1 votes:
Well, now that we've established there's absolutely nobody good enough at guns to not get shot by an NRA gun nut, anyone ready to start talking about gun control? The converse, of course, is now the NRA gun nuts know they can still get killed no matter how many 'cans they've shot.
'
Oh, I wish she'd had more guns, and more bullets! The republicans cry whenever somebody is shot. When Adam Lanza's mother was murdered by the guns she owned to keep her safe which were then used to shoot 26 first graders, what do republicans say?  Oh, I wish she'd had more guns, and more bullets!

We need to stop pretending these people care about reducing violence. Do they love the idea that there are fewer Americans every time another family has to learn that the child they'd been working for and buying presents for and helping with homework and taking to school and getting ready for college and sending off into the world has just been used as target practice? I want to say no but...
2013-02-03 12:06:14 PM  
1 votes:

redmid17: Hitler never won an election. He back doored his way to power by suspending basic rights, arresting opposition leaders, and tricking a bunch of idiotic politicians. He was a popular force in German politics but he didn't win anything


Huh?
2013-02-03 11:56:18 AM  
1 votes:
Starts reading thread.....

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
2013-02-03 11:34:41 AM  
1 votes:

nmemkha: The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.

How are his actions Heroic? How has any war after W II been worth the lives it destroyed? Our soldiers aren't defending anything but a  mercenary's paycheck paid by the blood of the The People on behalf of corporate interests.


Don't pretend that you idiots would have approved of our getting involved in WWII. You'd have called the Pearl Harbor attack a conspiracy. Also, we didn't even know the full extent of what Hitler was doing to the Jews until near the end of the war. So you'd have been against it. Admit it.
2013-02-03 11:23:00 AM  
1 votes:

great_tigers: This man helped save peoples lives.


And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
2013-02-03 11:09:43 AM  
1 votes:
As US forces surged into Iraq in 2003, Chris Kyle was handed a sniper rifle and told to watch as a marine battalion entered an Iraqi town.
A crowd had come out to greet them. Through the scope he saw a woman, with a child close by, approaching his troops. She had a grenade ready to detonate in her hand.
"This was the first time I was going to have to kill someone. I didn't know whether I was going to be able to do it, man, woman or whatever," he says.
"You're running everything through your mind. This is a woman, first of all. Second of all, am I clear to do this, is this right, is it justified? And after I do this, am I going to be fried back home? Are the lawyers going to come after me saying, 'You killed a woman, you're going to prison'?"

But he didn't have much time to debate these questions.
"She made the decision for me, it was either my fellow Americans die or I take her out."
He pulled the trigger


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00mmnrk">http://www.bbc.co.uk/progr ammes/p00mmnrk
2013-02-03 11:01:15 AM  
1 votes:

Fat-D: Even if it was a shiatty, pointless war....aaand he may have been a bit jesus freak crazy.....he still was willing to put his own ass on the line for something the civilian leadership of this country asked him to do.

You can have whatever opinion about him that you want.

People like this are national treasures.
RIP
/Liberal
//%100 against going to Iraq in the first place


Imagine how many American soldier lives he saved with his skill set. Instead of sending in multiple guys to take out people and risk their lives.

Truly he is a hero.
2013-02-03 10:40:44 AM  
1 votes:
Not celebrating this SEAL's death, but I'm not sure I can think of a more vivid, ironic, and maybe fitting object lesson to apply to the redirection from gun proliferation vs regulation to "mental health", and the unworkable complexities of that oversimplified non-answer.

The "internet gun expert" advocating gun proliferation that was recently shot to death also comes to mind as a similarly emblematic circumstance.

Here you have maybe the best shooter in the country's history trying to rehab a mentally ill soldier by putting a gun in his hand, at a range, and the PTSD soldier kills the Navy SEAL.  Maybe the only way it would be more symbolic would be if there was some government-mandated order for the PTSD guy to surrender his guns first, and the sniper was allowed to step in and intervene.

There is no "this session is over, let's try again next week" when the bullet hits the bone.  You'd better be 100% right the first time, every time.

My meaningless $.02
2013-02-03 10:31:28 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: I found some quotes from Kyle and yeah can't say he's the sort of person you'd want as a sniper. Sure he's a good shot, but he seemed to enjoy it a bit too much. I remember watching an old interview with Carlos Hathcock, who was a sniper in Vietnam and a damn good one, and he said he never liked actually killing someone, but he figured it was them or him or someone else on his side. He said all he liked was being out looking for them, once he found them, it was different. There was even one mission he took, not one he was ordered to take but one he chose to take, that he later regretted taking.



Agree with this. And thanks for not posting it in a trolltastic manner! Hathcock was a class act and did seem humble about some of the things he did. I have not read Chris Kyle's book or even heard much about him, but we use the term "hero" fast and loose these days. I can't say one way or the other about this guy, but I agree that just being in the military and carrying out your duties does not automatically elevate you to demigod status. This "military people are the best of us" attitude is misguided and frankly, dangerous. We're headed for that society that is portrayed in "Starship Troopers"--where you must serve in the military to become a citizen.
2013-02-03 09:59:41 AM  
1 votes:
How is it a good idea to give a soldier suffering from PTSD a farking gun? Wouldn't bowling be a better choice?
2013-02-03 09:50:56 AM  
1 votes:
I'm done skimming the 600 some odd comments of incendiary trolling by Fark's elite left. Basement dwelling 13 year olds, the lot of you. At least that is the picture you paint. I'm not saying just because we serve, and you people are acting like asshats, that you should walk a mile in a soldier's shoes, but gotdamn. Welcome to Fark, I get it.

When the Maersk Alabama situation was ended by the Seals, you cheered. When Bin Laden's douchey flame was expunged by Seals, you applauded and raved that these men were heroes. These guys live hard lives. Speak harsh, act harsh, and usually die in a violent manner. Thank christ I do not rely on you leaf eating tree hugging hispter douche anti American vaginas for the defense of this nation. You live your comfy lives without the sounds smells and sights of war because of us. If you do not understand this, and I am sure most don't, You're farking welcome. Ungrateful douches.
2013-02-03 09:46:39 AM  
1 votes:

Vegan Meat Popsicle: A Navy SEAL, at a gun range, unable to defend himself from a man with a gun.

A Navy SEAL, at a gun range, unable to defend himself from a man with a gun.

A NAVY SEAL, AT A GUN RANGE, UNABLE TO DEFEND HIMSELF FROM A MAN WITH A GUN.

The ONLY solution to gun violence is a gun. All other proposals are unacceptable and unworkable and the product of inferior minds.


I know you're super excited that you think this forward your politics, but how do you both explain troops carrying rifles, and the fact that when they fight each other there are casualties?
2013-02-03 09:30:58 AM  
1 votes:
If you don't want our military to be staffed by a draft then you'd better damn well start calling people like this a hero.

Even if you are a pacifist- you probably enjoy our all volunteer military. A big reason people join is to make someone proud (parent, country, brother, whoever). Take that pride away and less will join.

I never want to see a draft, so yeah, this guy is definitely a hero. Throw a parade or something.
2013-02-03 09:23:50 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

Wow, that's stupid. Even for you.

You do realize that most "insurgents" were actually either A) Foreign Soldiers - namely from Iran, or B) Foreign Fighters who had killboners for Americans, right?


Not in Ramadi in 2004. Those were a mix of Sunni fanatics (Takfiri), resisting the shiate government; foreign Sunni fanatics, aka al Qaida in Mesopotamia, and local tribesmen temporarily allied to the first two groups. The "Anbar Awakening" happened when the Marines used money and diplomacy to peel the Iraqi tribes away from groups one and two, and the tribes then killed most of AQI's leadership.

Iran had pretty much zero influence in Anbar province; they were mostly influential in southern/central cities. Pretty hard to really understand their relationship to the three major shiate parties, all of whom were trying to get things from each other and screw each other over.

/Middle Eastern politics is a hell of a lot more complicated than most Americans think, and 90 percent of it has absolutely nothing to do with the USA.
2013-02-03 09:21:30 AM  
1 votes:
Kyle wasn't a hero for his combat actions, he was a hero because he spent time with PTSD patients, giving back what he could. Some might say that kind of empathy isn't psychopathic, but what do I farking know.

How about any of you armchair Freuds spend a chunk of your life trying to help PTSD veterans, given that there's always limited resources out there?

Kyle tried, he got killed for it. Hope he left his kids set...that sucks.
2013-02-03 09:16:05 AM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero

Because nothing says "hero" like taking out a person from 1500 yards away while wearing a gillie suit.


Another moron who thinks combat is like call of duty.

Ignores how he has to get into position, ignores the risk he was in doing that and staying there, ignores that he was shot twice, etc.
2013-02-03 09:01:36 AM  
1 votes:

Old enough to know better: Protip to all you vets who may be suffering from PTSD. Going to a gun range and handling weapons might not be the best thing to do in your spare time.


THIS

Considering that the victims were apparently working with the guy as part of their PTSD support network, I have to ask WTF WERE THEY THINKING???
2013-02-03 08:44:30 AM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.

OK, you too, chuckles. How was he a hero.

Seriously, I'm sick of jagoffs calling any dumb asshole with a gun who gets off on killing people a "hero". This guy was a psychopath.


And I am sick of hipster douches like you vilifying people that you damn well know contribute more to our country and are more passionate about their beliefs than you could ever pretend to be. In fact, other than liberal spew of how we should all live our lives, you are worthy of exactly zero respect for any part of your pathetic life.

May you and all you know die in the most horrific and painful ways....one and a time so you can all watch.

You are a piece of sh*t

F this web site for providing a tool like you (and many others on this page) with an platform for your  BS.
2013-02-03 08:32:09 AM  
1 votes:

drp: The best thing about these threads is how many awful human beings show their true nature.  Thanks, you cynical self-righteous hip/edgy douchebags, for helping me expand my "favorite" list.  It's so much easier to spot you when you're color coded.

/ RIP Chris Kyle


The interesting thing is that most people who are gleeful about his death, are the same ones who say that 2nd amendment supporters don't care about shooting victims.
2013-02-03 08:28:20 AM  
1 votes:
I found some quotes from Kyle and yeah can't say he's the sort of person you'd want as a sniper. Sure he's a good shot, but he seemed to enjoy it a bit too much. I remember watching an old interview with Carlos Hathcock, who was a sniper in Vietnam and a damn good one, and he said he never liked actually killing someone, but he figured it was them or him or someone else on his side. He said all he liked was being out looking for them, once he found them, it was different. There was even one mission he took, not one he was ordered to take but one he chose to take, that he later regretted taking.
drp
2013-02-03 08:27:46 AM  
1 votes:
The best thing about these threads is how many awful human beings show their true nature.  Thanks, you cynical self-righteous hip/edgy douchebags, for helping me expand my "favorite" list.  It's so much easier to spot you when you're color coded.

/ RIP Chris Kyle
2013-02-03 08:26:27 AM  
1 votes:
CatherineM:

[i59.photobucket.com image 850x362]

i430.photobucket.com
ftfy
2013-02-03 08:14:37 AM  
1 votes:

Bullseyed: halB: I'm shocked.

I have no idea how he made it away from that range, unless it was a backwoods range where you only find a handful of people shooting.

At a range with 10+ people, that guy would've been toast from the first shot.

Because it was a PTSD recovery session and the guy went all PTSD thinking everyone were terrorists. They were trying to capture, not kill.


They had a PTSD recovery session with live ammo? Genius.
2013-02-03 08:05:04 AM  
1 votes:

Bullseyed: The shooter had PTSD. They were trying to get him used to gunfire again without him going crazy and it didn't work. Probably not the best idea, but this former sniper was doing it for a living so I assume he was following the text book.


I really don't think he knew what he was doing or following any protocol for treating PTSD.  Sure, his heart was in the right place, but when gunfire is a trigger, I think the last thing you want to do is take your group to a shooting range.
2013-02-03 08:04:45 AM  
1 votes:

halB: I'm shocked.

If a man starts shooting people at a gun range, you would figure he would be put down by everyone else at the range as an act of self defense.

I have no idea how he made it away from that range, unless it was a backwoods range where you only find a handful of people shooting.

At a range with 10+ people, that guy would've been toast from the first shot.


FFS, enough of this idiotic talking point.  At gun ranges people are separated by lanes.  You literally cannot see other shooters.  Oh, and there's the small fact that gunshots are constantly going off all around you, there is no audible difference between a gunshot that kills someone and a gunshot that tears a hole in paper.
2013-02-03 08:03:42 AM  
1 votes:

Bullseyed: give me doughnuts: Just_a_Bear: what was that about the need for better treatment for mental illnesses?

Especially for returning troops. The suicide rate anong Iraq and Afghanistan vets is appalling.

This guy was receiving treatment for mental illness when it happened... Didn't you read the article?


The article says the guy is said to have PTSD. It doesn't mention treatment. You've read something in the article that actually isn't there. The adequacy of treatment, if any, is also questionable.
2013-02-03 07:58:06 AM  
1 votes:

halB: I'm shocked.

If a man starts shooting people at a gun range, you would figure he would be put down by everyone else at the range as an act of self defense.

I have no idea how he made it away from that range, unless it was a backwoods range where you only find a handful of people shooting.

At a range with 10+ people, that guy would've been toast from the first shot.


Because it was a PTSD recovery session and the guy went all PTSD thinking everyone were terrorists. They were trying to capture, not kill.
2013-02-03 07:55:44 AM  
1 votes:
Was someone boinking someone else's wife?
2013-02-03 07:31:27 AM  
1 votes:

crab66: publikenemy: Rep. Charles Rangel D-NY said that our armed forces come from the "lowest economic echelon we have."

This is a factual statement.

It seems more like you really want to take offense where there is none just to fit the narrative you have been fed.


There is truth in that. While yes, highly educated people do enlist in the military, they are often doing so in Non-Combatant positions - such as Medical Doctors, Nurses, Engineers, and Lawyers - to pay off massive amounts of student debt, and receiving direct commissions into the officer corps.

The problem is that we've created a system that, unless you're at the top of your class academically, the only way for a person to achieve a higher level of education is either to enlist in the military right out of high school, or work a bottom-rung job and take out major, long-term loans to pay for it.
2013-02-03 07:26:21 AM  
1 votes:

Enemabag Jones: Then we go back to the question, was the second iraq war necessary. Might as well start a debate about abortion. Opinions will probably not be changed.


Not really. There's a simple answer to it: No. We should have NEVER gotten involved in Iraq. But that blame lies with our previous administration, and the people who were so willing to be swayed in the months after 9/11 into war frenzy because of the desire for revenge.

That said, any soldier who committed an atrocity should also have the blame lay with them. That includes people who tortured others. (Which is a whole other debate on it's own, whether situational grey areas can justify torture, and the fact that torture-obtained information is usually inaccurate)
2013-02-03 07:18:56 AM  
1 votes:
I respect his service. But still see this as another sign of our farked up gun culture.
2013-02-03 07:12:05 AM  
1 votes:

dbirchall: I hate I_Hate_Iowa: Enemabag Jones: Don't judge people for random psychological abilities. Ability to abstract their job functions based on nature/nurture does not mean he enjoyed it.

[i.imgur.com image 700x525]

So I say again, good riddance you pathological waste of humanity.

Uh... your pie chart appears to be lacking slices for Iraqi military casualties and for enemy combatant irregulars in both wars.  Or are those all grouped as "civilians" since anyone who's not in  our military is an innocent peaceful civilian?

/Just asking


I'm also curious how many Iraqi casualties are the result of sectarian violence and infighting, and not the result of US Combat Action in general.
2013-02-03 06:54:26 AM  
1 votes:
www.s2ki.com
Some serious jimmy rustling from I can see
2013-02-03 06:48:58 AM  
1 votes:
A soldier suffering from PTSD let's give him a gun.

/the American way is the wrong way
//too many guns
2013-02-03 06:27:50 AM  
1 votes:
If Routh killed the best sniper in the US, does that automatically make him the best sniper?

Because I totally think so.
2013-02-03 06:19:52 AM  
1 votes:
You know how EVERY time there's a story about crime or violence someone chimes in with "if only they had a gun and a little training" ?

Well, you'll have to excuse people for their little revenge whenever a story like this one comes along.
2013-02-03 06:10:03 AM  
1 votes:
Kyle will live on in the inevitable conspiracy theories.
2013-02-03 05:06:46 AM  
1 votes:
Killing people with a gun makes you a hero.  Except when it makes you a criminal.

It's an interesting distinction we make.
2013-02-03 04:34:08 AM  
1 votes:

MurphyMurphy: Another reminder that for those we send to fight, war never end.

They carry it with them every where they go, every day of their lives.

It's too bad that kid had to take two of his fellow soldiers with him... terrible tragedy.

/those internet badasses here lacking any ounce of dignity or respect, enjoy your gun thread jack off session


For me its more of a war jack off session - when you decide to fight to the death you have better have serious reasons ... and I am thinking hordes coming over the hill towards the town you live in. Not what we in the West have been doing since "The Project for the New American Century" got their dream wish.

I joined the army to defend my country not slaughter foreigners, who never stepped foot on my land, in their own country.

Murder is murder regardless of if it is government sanctioned (and that government was FAR from sanctioned.)
.
2013-02-03 03:58:50 AM  
1 votes:

Don't Troll Me Bro!: In all seriousness, this is a terrible example of the lack of mental healthcare our veterans are receiving upon return from wherever they go.  Whether you agree or disagree with the mission, the failure to recognize and address that we've got a second Vietnam worth of societal problems revolving around veterans returning with mental/emotional issues will haunt us for the next 60 years.


Approaching 500 posts in the thread and this is the only one which spots the real take-home message.

I'll go one further and point out that if folks with diagnosed mental disorders relating to violence were prohibited from using firearms upon their discharge from the military until they were cleared as sane, Chris Kyle would be alive right now.
2013-02-03 03:48:12 AM  
1 votes:

joness0154: This shiat this guy went through - and did - when his country asked him to would make many of you skinny jeans wearing sad sacks of shiat quiver up in a corner screaming for mommy and a pacifier.

Even if you don't agree with the politics behind everything, don't come posting in here celebrating his death, particularly when it came at the hands of a coward who he was genuinely trying to help. Some of you guys are sick.

RIP Mr. Kyle


Wait so a guy who shot somebody else who wasn't expecting to be facing any violence and was just faffing about but the guy who shot who drew a paycheck for years by shooting people who weren't expecting to be facing any violence and were just faffing about is a hero?
2013-02-03 03:31:44 AM  
1 votes:
I never claimed he was a hero. He may be to some and not others. I was addressing those in this thread celebrating his death.
2013-02-03 03:28:58 AM  
1 votes:

joness0154: This shiat this guy went through - and did - when his country asked him to would make many of you skinny jeans wearing sad sacks of shiat quiver up in a corner screaming for mommy and a pacifier.

Even if you don't agree with the politics behind everything, don't come posting in here celebrating his death, particularly when it came at the hands of a coward who he was genuinely trying to help. Some of you guys are sick.

RIP Mr. Kyle


He was a soldier. His country didn't ask him--he volunteered to do it, plain and simple. So please stop venerating everyone who volunteered to earn a (pretty crappy) paycheck as a "hero," because so few of them are genuine heroes. Honestly, what people like you do cheapens the honorific. An (overly-simplified) example:

Person A: "Private Dale Black just came back from Iraq."
Person B: "He's a hero!"
Person A: "He served food in the chow hall."
Person B: "Look at that uniform! He's got to be a hero!"

And since you venerate soldiers (and, I hope, sailors), you would probably do well to address him properly: Chief Petty Officer Kyle.
2013-02-03 03:26:22 AM  
1 votes:
So, once again a lack of mental health resources was what killed, abetted by access to a gun.

And while I think some snipers could be heroes, the people I respect most are the people who detest killing but do it anyway to protect others. If someone actively enjoys killing and signs up to the military so that they can kill people without being put in prison for it, I wouldn't call them a hero, even if they're doing the same job. I'd rather they do that than being a serial killer, but I don't think of them the same way I do as people who join the military for other reasons and kill only when they have to.
2013-02-03 03:17:54 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: drayno76: So he followed orders and was very good at it.... So were Nazi war criminals.... They heroes too? Your turn.

That's a stupid argument, and you win the dumbass-of-the-thread award for making it, and turning a Godwin.

The Nazis neither followed the laws and conventions of warfare of which they were a signatary to, or even their own national rules and regulations regarding the treatment of combatants and occupied peoples. It's a false comparison only someone either poorly educated in history, or entirely disingenious with an agenda would promote.

Is that you Dubya?

2013-02-03 03:12:32 AM  
1 votes:

Befuddled: What we need to do in response to this is obvious; make gun ranges gun-free zones.

The term hero gets thrown around so much it's next to meaningless now. I feel that hero means someone who does something they don't have to do which both puts that someone in harm's way and helps or saves others. So joining the military and getting sent to a combat zone then killing people doesn't count.


I agree - that's a hero - being a soulless killer for hire tends not to cut it.
2013-02-03 03:05:11 AM  
1 votes:
"Deadliest?" All because he put over 160 enemy combatants down? No. Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock would likely disagree. Plus, Chief Kyle got wounded--twice, at least--which kind of makes him a human target compared to Gunny Hathcock. I have a reasonable amount of respect for people who come out of the sandbox alive and (mostly) in one piece, but if you train to be a SEAL sniper and then you get wounded, somewhere along the way your training failed you. Of course this is the same guy that made a killshot from over a mile away (2,100 yards was the figure I've seen).

As much respect as I have for him getting out of the Middle East alive, that respect is heavily tempered with the fact that he wrote a friggin' book about it. Don't brag. He killed people and made a pretty amazing shot, but he spiked the football and wrote a book about it--seriously not cool.

So let's see: He's not the "deadliest." (Duh.) But he made a 2,100-yard shot. (Good.) And then he wrote a book (bad)...a book which Republicans are probably wanking to nightly (eww).

Remember this the next time someone says that bullcrap line about stopping bad guys with guns by having a good guy with a gun nearby.
2013-02-03 02:58:54 AM  
1 votes:
What we need to do in response to this is obvious; make gun ranges gun-free zones.

The term hero gets thrown around so much it's next to meaningless now. I feel that hero means someone who does something they don't have to do which both puts that someone in harm's way and helps or saves others. So joining the military and getting sent to a combat zone then killing people doesn't count.
2013-02-03 02:53:47 AM  
1 votes:

Lt. Cheese Weasel: So much derp here, I hope we survive it.


RIP


All I know is, tomorrow morning I am waking up and farking my girlfriend and Chris Kyle is rotting 6 feet underground. All is right with the world.
2013-02-03 02:53:45 AM  
1 votes:

GoSurfing: Many of you here seem to equate an "original thought" with that of simply pissing someone off.


people argue emotion, not facts. and when presented with facts that disagree with their emotion, they kill the messenger.

I left fark for almost a year because I was starting to do the same thing. I'm sure I still do, but I try to be much more conscious of it.
2013-02-03 02:40:16 AM  
1 votes:
alright.   i didnt want to believe in the hoax theories behind all the recent gun violence/media coverage.   but this is just retarded.      gun related death at a shooting range???   COMEON  this HAS to be satire.
2013-02-03 02:37:05 AM  
1 votes:

over_and_done: Arumat: I can't really put a "hero" label on this guy.  He served honorably with distinction and courage, but the conflict he served in was a load of shiat.  Not every soldier is a hero.  Not every insurgent is a villain.  Granted, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a soldier hanging around than a Taliban fighter, but you can't paint either group in black and white.  There may be people with the virtue of a saint serving in uniform, but I've personally known quite a few absolutely vile service members as well.  On that same note, there might be some terrorists who are in it purely because they believe it's the best/only way to make a better life for themselves or their families, along with the ones mentioned up-thread with killboners for any American they can find.  The best thing we as a nation can do is educate ourselves, pick leaders who will look out for everyone's best interest, and beat the everloving shiat out of the ones who betray that trust.

/veteran, not a hero
//for me it was a job and a way out of my crappy home town

I like you.  I wish there were more like you.

/can't bring myself to volunteer for the current military
//unless we start recruiting suicide bombers
///imagine how surreal the TV recruitment ads for that would look like


I served with a few others who had similar opinions.  We were, unfortunately, deeply in the minority.  I can't speak for the entire armed forces, but the people I came in contact with were a mix of people who were apathetic to the morality of what they were doing, some who straight up told me they'd only vote Republican because they'd be more likely to give them a pay raise, "God, guns, and country" types, and a few who agreed with us but somehow thought they could change the military from the inside.
2013-02-03 02:28:21 AM  
1 votes:
Glass. Parking. Lot.
2013-02-03 02:27:25 AM  
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: nmemkha: The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.

How are his actions Heroic? How has any war after W II been worth the lives it destroyed? Our soldiers aren't defending anything but a  mercenary's paycheck paid by the blood of the The People on behalf of corporate interests.

Their actions ARE heroic which in turn makes them heroes. You think the 18 or 25 yr old being shot at in some foxhole in some god forsaken country really has time to think of all the things you just wrote about?
On an individual level, the soldier in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else for that matter is no different than his grandfather serving in Bastogne or Iwo Jima.
I do see your points however the politics of war should never be used in determining or judging the actions of an individual soldier in the battlefield.


I disagree, but respect your opinion. Threaten my home and I will die for my country. But, I believe there is nothing noble in acting as pawn for corporations and other "interests" that line the pockets of those who send our children to die.
2013-02-03 02:23:36 AM  
1 votes:
I read this guy's book.   It was the biggest compendium of "cool story, bro" stuff I've ever seen.   Most military people who have seen "real shiat", particularly ones operating on the level of SEAL, checked their egos at the door.  "The Quiet Professionals" is the motto of the Green Berets for a reason.   It extends to other Tier 1 operators, but this guy didn't really get it I guess.

Sucks dude got popped, but shiat happens, and we can stop talking bout how amazing he was anytime now.
2013-02-03 02:21:15 AM  
1 votes:
We the People choose our government and control it.
The government chooses to wage wars.
Volunteers fight in the wars our government chooses.
Sometimes the wars make the volunteers crazy.
Crazy people kill other people.
So, this is something we've done to ourselves.
2013-02-03 02:19:46 AM  
1 votes:
reap what you sow
2013-02-03 02:13:24 AM  
1 votes:
You know, you can hate everything our military does and despise the abuse of power from our government, and still not feel the need to spend your minutes angrily championing a soldier's death in a homicide.

/RIP psychopathic American soldier. Thanks for not killing random Americans for no reason.
2013-02-03 02:06:19 AM  
1 votes:
Riothamus: Umm, the Vietnam War very clearly did not stop the spread of Communism in Vietnam.

BronyMedic: No, Star Wars did that.

Riothamus: ?

Normally I have this dude on ignore, but did I just get Poe's Law-ed?

Communist forces completely overran Vietnam and Vietnam is still a single-party state. Communism very successfully spread throughout the entire country!

This is basic reading comprehension!

BronyMedic: You completely, entirely misread what I said, and you're lecturing me on reading comprehension?

Vietnam was a MILITARY victory for the United States. At the time of the pullout, we had accomplished our military objectives in that conflict.



Fleeing the country was America's military objective in Vietnam?
2013-02-03 01:58:48 AM  
1 votes:
1-media-cdn.foolz.us
2013-02-03 01:52:44 AM  
1 votes:
JungleBoogie:

• As far as male prostitutes go, they're typically not in lethal danger, whereas a sniper frequently is.

nmemkha: Ever hear of AIDS or Hepatitis C? Personally, I would choose being a solider over sucking cocks, but YMMV.


The condom mitigates that threat.

But, yes, most would choose being thrust into combat rather than being a male prostitute because of the following:

"At the bottom of a good deal of the bravery that appears in the world there lurks a miserable cowardice. Men will face powder and steel because they cannot face public opinion." -Edwin Hubbel Chapin, minister and orator (1814-1880)
2013-02-03 01:49:32 AM  
1 votes:
JungleBoogie:

• As far as male prostitutes go, they're typically not in lethal danger, whereas a sniper frequently is.

I an certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that male prostitutes are killed more often than US snipers are.
2013-02-03 01:47:27 AM  
1 votes:
What happened to the days of posting pictures of dead people was cause for bannination?
2013-02-03 01:44:06 AM  
1 votes:

scruffy1: This guy was a farking idiot and a clinical example of someone with antisocial personality disorder aka psychopath/sociopath.


Oh, he was a sociopath alright.  The interview I heard with him made that absolutely clear.  Because he was a sociopath, sniping may have been no harder for him than the work his fellow soldiers were doing.

He did his duty, no question.  Everyone who went over there and risked their lives deserves a medal.  It was a pointless war, but the blame for that goes to Bush and Cheney, not the soldiers who fought it.  Still, does killing that many without losing his mind make him a "hero"?   It makes him a very effective killing machine, but hero?
2013-02-03 01:42:52 AM  
1 votes:
GUTSU: nmemkha: ficklefkrfark:
Well put...people forget that that right or wrong, the rights we enjoy as Americans are served by people such as this...disagree or not with the mission, he served his country above and beyond the call of duty.

Bullshiat. Doing your job competently makes you a employee worth keeping. How did Vietnam and Iraq make us safe? How specifically?

In Vietnam most of the people serving didn't actually have a say in the matter, as for how it made us safe? It necessary to stop the spread of communism, you may disagree but in the 60s it was a very real threat. As for iraq, which war are you specifically talking about?


• In Vietnam, there was a school of thought which said, "If we don't fight them over there, we'll be fighting them here on the beaches of Santa Monica."

• It was a reflection of the complete ignorance of the military and political class on the nature of the fighting in Vietnam, specifically guerilla warfare. It led to idiocies like Hamburger Hill, trying to take and hold ground, as in WWII. Hamburger hill was a pissing contest over a hill with no strategic value, which led to scores of American casualties.

nmemkha: We failed in Vietnam and the world did not end. Was it worth all the death?

Does doing a dangerous and unpleasant job for the benefit of others make you are hero? Male prostitutes meet that criteria. (at least to their Johns).
Are they heroes?


• As far as male prostitutes go, they're typically not in lethal danger, whereas a sniper frequently is.
2013-02-03 01:42:11 AM  
1 votes:
Is this what it's like in the politics tab?
2013-02-03 01:40:47 AM  
1 votes:

Riothamus: Right or wrong, people will continue to shiat all over the US military until the guilty parties are brought to justice. I think our soldiers, sailors, and marines are strong enough to handle the criticisms.


I would hope so. We spend an obscene amount of money on our military, many times more than the next highest country. We can certainly afford some "man up, your not fighting for anything more than whats in your compensation package" training.

Unfortunately, playing on the well meaning jingoism of Middle American hayseeds is what supplies the meat for the grinder.
2013-02-03 01:36:50 AM  
1 votes:

GUTSU: nmemkha: ficklefkrfark:
Well put...people forget that that right or wrong, the rights we enjoy as Americans are served by people such as this...disagree or not with the mission, he served his country above and beyond the call of duty.

Bullshiat. Doing your job competently makes you a employee worth keeping. How did Vietnam and Iraq make us safe? How specifically?

In Vietnam most of the people serving didn't actually have a say in the matter, as for how it made us safe? It necessary to stop the spread of communism, you may disagree but in the 60s it was a very real threat. As for iraq, which war are you specifically talking about?


Umm, the Vietnam War very clearly did not stop the spread of Communism in Vietnam.
2013-02-03 01:25:17 AM  
1 votes:
Etch A Sketch creator Andre Cassagnes died today. He was a real hero!
2013-02-03 01:20:24 AM  
1 votes:

wademh: BronyMedic: drayno76: Well shiat, you did that on page 1. Cap't 'Murica....

I'm not the one revising history to suit his agenda. I'm pretty anti-war in general, and I've been against getting involved in Iraq since day one, but to pull a comparison to Nazi Germany out of your ass with the United States demonstrates you have no idea what you're talking about in the least, and only want to compare the two for an emotional appeal.

Call me when the United States Army is marching into Prague and rounding up everyone by their ethnicity to shoot and gas.

Logic remains logic. You, BronyMedic, are the one giving a pass to anyone who is serving in the US military. You show no sense of qualification in your admiration for anyone who does so. You were presented with the logical extension. It is apparent that you have no honest response and have been exposed.


You're absolutely right. Clearly what you read by logical extension means I support and honor soldiers who violate the code set forth by the Geneva and the Hague conventions, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the ethos and honor of their respective branch.

Despite never stating any of that.

Logic.(-al fallacies!) It makes you Psychic!
2013-02-03 01:19:22 AM  
1 votes:

ficklefkrfark: BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.

If you're actually being serious? He's a hero for undertaking a mission which only a select group of human beings, the number of which could be counted in the low thousands, in the history of the United States have been able to do. In doing so, he placed himself at extreme risk of capture by an enemy who would neither respect the laws and conventions of warfare, but would gleefully do horrific things to his corpse long after tortuing and murdering him to do so. His mission not only placed him in the realm of disproportionate risk as a soldier, but also provided a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer, allowing American and allied forces to do what they needed to do, without endangering civilians and noncombattants as much as a drone strike or artillery strike would have.

He did this while honoribly serving his country, and upholding the laws and values of the UCMJ and the conventions which we stuck to, even while others didn't.

So yes. That's why he's a hero. Some people aren't satisfied being BASH Commandos in a cubicle.

Well put...people forget that that right or wrong, the rights we enjoy as Americans are served by people such as this...disagree or not with the mission, he served his country above and beyond the call of duty.


Bullshiat. Doing your job competently makes you a employee worth keeping. How did Vietnam and Iraq make us safe? How specifically?
2013-02-03 01:19:12 AM  
1 votes:

sheep snorter: Back in Saint Reagans day, these people were the heroes.

[i.imgur.com image 485x237]


Don't you ever do basic research before posting internet memes? The Taliban weren't around in the 80s and most of those men in the room weren't part of it when it was created.
2013-02-03 01:18:05 AM  
1 votes:
As a compromise, let's ban bans.
2013-02-03 01:16:48 AM  
1 votes:
Whoa...

Didn't this guy have a feud with Jesse Ventura and the 9-11 Truthers? Any connection?

Phoenix_M: Any friend off Sarah Palin is dead to me...


Do you know that everyone knows you're an asshole?
2013-02-03 01:12:05 AM  
1 votes:

Red Shirt Blues: CatherineM: I had no idea that fark was this entertaining so late at night..

You need to stay up more often. And it's only midnight your time. Come back in a few hours when things get totally bizzaro.


I saw this news on facebook along with plenty of derp, so I had to come here and.. yeah, I don't know what I was expecting. It got really weird really quick. Saw the below on a friend's page.. at least spell check, fer chrissake..

i59.photobucket.com
2013-02-03 01:11:02 AM  
1 votes:
I can appreciate the skills it takes to be a sniper.  I can appreciate the precision, the tools, the mission.  I'm not so big on the killing for Jesus crowd, and the people that cheer it on.  This guy seemed a little... off, to put it mildly.

Carlos Hathcock's biography mentioned how he tried to weed out the crazies and the ones who enjoyed it when he started putting together a scout sniper unit in Vietnam.  That you can take satisfaction in a job well done, but there's a line that can get crossed.  I'd like to know if anyone wanted him pulled off the line and examined, and what the results were or weren't.

/When you talk to God, it's faith
//When he talks back, it's insanity.
///When he tells you to kill, it's time to crinkle some tinfoil on the antenna.
2013-02-03 01:10:05 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: drayno76: Well shiat, you did that on page 1. Cap't 'Murica....

I'm not the one revising history to suit his agenda. I'm pretty anti-war in general, and I've been against getting involved in Iraq since day one, but to pull a comparison to Nazi Germany out of your ass with the United States demonstrates you have no idea what you're talking about in the least, and only want to compare the two for an emotional appeal.

Call me when the United States Army is marching into Prague and rounding up everyone by their ethnicity to shoot and gas.


Logic remains logic. You, BronyMedic, are the one giving a pass to anyone who is serving in the US military. You show no sense of qualification in your admiration for anyone who does so. You were presented with the logical extension. It is apparent that you have no honest response and have been exposed.
2013-02-03 01:07:38 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: Call me when the United States Army is marching into Prague and rounding up everyone by their ethnicity to shoot and gas.


So that's the red line in your world of moral relativism?

I love you guys.
2013-02-03 01:07:09 AM  
1 votes:

What_Would_Jimi_Do: why does every god damn thing every human being ever does have to be labeled?

people are pieces of shiat. he was a murderer. period.

this guy was a piece of shiat


I'd hate to know how you feel about Teddy charging the spanish on horse back. Also, you just labeled something he did, incorrectly mind you, but I doubt you care.
2013-02-03 01:03:58 AM  
1 votes:
Wha?  Just because the guy killed a lot of other people is his life now somehow more important? Their souls added to his?

Each and every murder in a war is a failure of the human race to progress and reflects poorly on all of us.

What about that dude that saved over a hundred lives?  remember him?  exactly.
2013-02-03 01:03:42 AM  
1 votes:
I wonder how many people who all "don't care about a member of the armed forces dying because he is technically a murder" also are OUTRAGED that Anwar Al-Aulaqi was killed. Every drop of brown blood is precious but death to America.

Also for those who view the military as welfare queens, they actually work so it isn't welfare in the sense of the word. This country wouldn't even have a middle class if it wasn't for veterans who went to college post WW2. The military is responsible for the safety we enjoy today, training and disciplining many young men and woman with job and social skills, and providing technological advancements including the very internet that is trolling me at this very second. When you view the pay of junior enlisted and break up their salary over 4 weeks and a 40 hour work week (and nobody in the Military works under 40 hours) it isn't that much higher than minimum wage. Last but not least, the military is actually mandated by our constitution and every political philosophy believes at the minimum that government's roll is to provide both a military and Infrastructure.

/in short, go chock on dicks
//been successfully trolled
///might as well crack open a six pack for this thread
2013-02-03 01:00:16 AM  
1 votes:
why does every god damn thing every human being ever does have to be labeled?

people are pieces of shiat. he was a murderer. period.

this guy was a piece of shiat
2013-02-03 12:58:33 AM  
1 votes:
Pat Tillman was indeed a hero, for showing how corrupt the military can be, and how shameless they are in covering up something to score political points.

Wait... what thread is this again?
2013-02-03 12:54:54 AM  
1 votes:
super_grass:

/ Proud to be edgy.
/ Proud to be atheist.
/ Proud to educate people on the internet.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

That self-aggrandizing tone and inflated sense of importance coming from a moron on a Fark thread is just too much. It makes it so funny that you're serious, too! 

I mean, we should all pay you for the job you're doing! Keep it up!
2013-02-03 12:54:52 AM  
1 votes:

ontariolightning: Why are soldiers with PTSD allowed near guns in the first place?
You're just asking for something bad to happen.


Because in America, anyone suggesting that the mentally ill be limited in their access to firearms is automatically an Obama cock-sucking liberal socialist who is advocating for the Ready Reserve Disaster Corps to put on their jackboots, and march into homes to beat people with stethescopes and steal their guns for the concentration camps to come.

/Woohoo! Conspiracy Theory combo!
2013-02-03 12:52:32 AM  
1 votes:
Truly a new low for Fark. Congratulations
2013-02-03 12:51:58 AM  
1 votes:

Karne: He's going to have a whole bunch of pissed off ghosts waiting to greet him in the after world. Nobody likes a camper.


It's a legitimate strategy.
2013-02-03 12:51:38 AM  
1 votes:
Why are soldiers with PTSD allowed near guns in the first place?
You're just asking for something bad to happen.
2013-02-03 12:50:53 AM  
1 votes:

drayno76: Well shiat, you did that on page 1. Cap't 'Murica....


I'm not the one revising history to suit his agenda. I'm pretty anti-war in general, and I've been against getting involved in Iraq since day one, but to pull a comparison to Nazi Germany out of your ass with the United States demonstrates you have no idea what you're talking about in the least, and only want to compare the two for an emotional appeal.

Call me when the United States Army is marching into Prague and rounding up everyone by their ethnicity to shoot and gas.
2013-02-03 12:48:28 AM  
1 votes:
Well this thread went to hell in a hurry.
2013-02-03 12:48:08 AM  
1 votes:

Fat-D: Even if it was a shiatty, pointless war....aaand he may have been a bit jesus freak crazy.....he still was willing to put his own ass on the line for something the civilian leadership of this country asked him to do.

You can have whatever opinion about him that you want.

People like this are national treasures.
RIP
/Liberal
//%100 against going to Iraq in the first place


Well put sir!
Agree or disagree with the war, respect the service.
2013-02-03 12:46:41 AM  
1 votes:

super_grass: Better edgy and sharp than dull and slow.

/ Proud to be edgy.
/ Proud to be atheist.
/ Proud to educate people on the internet.


You do realize that the edgy label is sarcastic, right? You don't seem to be as sharp as you like to fancy yourself.
2013-02-03 12:45:03 AM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.


I won't say a hero, 'cause, what's a hero? Sometimes, there's a man. And I'm talkin' about Chris Kyle here - Chris Kyle from Texas. Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Chris Kyle.
2013-02-03 12:44:33 AM  
1 votes:
This is what we get for not allowing God at our gun ranges.
2013-02-03 12:44:15 AM  
1 votes:

drayno76: We're really good at following those 'conventions of war'.


Maybe you should look up the definition of Franc Saboteur, and just what the protections for them are under the convention of war.

I think you might be suprised.

drayno76: Your turn... we are the new Nazi's you just haven't been paying attention .


You have just lost your right to be taken seriously in this thread. And in addition, you have demonstrated you have absolutely no farking idea what you're talking about. Congradulations.
2013-02-03 12:41:33 AM  
1 votes:
I'm not big on calling snipers heroes.  I'm thankful for his service, though.  It's a dirty job, and much like proctology someone needs to do it.  Likewise, I imagine you can only spend so long staring at assholes before everything you see becomes one.  Either that or you have to start out with a real disposition for staring at assholes.  Either way, thanks and RIP.
2013-02-03 12:41:28 AM  
1 votes:

sheep snorter: Back in Saint Reagans day, these people were the heroes.

[i.imgur.com image 485x237]



Get your facts straight....he never said that about the Taliban or anyone in Afghanistan.
2013-02-03 12:40:52 AM  
1 votes:

HempHead: Kill boners! LOL!

[www.splicetoday.com image 420x279]
[www.kenthaber.com image 300x199]
[www.southernstudies.org image 250x202]


I KNOW, RIGHT! INNOCENT PEOPLE!
www.lindasog.com
www.chinadaily.com.cn

www.theage.com.au
2013-02-03 12:37:52 AM  
1 votes:
Can the killer still collect the bounty?  Or is it only valid in Iraq?
2013-02-03 12:34:46 AM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.

They're ignoring your trolling. It's pretty fail, bro.

It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.



It is very obvious trolling.

You asked someone to explain why they feel someone is a hero. What makes someone a hero is a matter of opinion. It's obvious that--even if they present facts--you'll be in a position to say, "Well, that's stupid. That is an opinion."

Pretty much the first lesson plan in Trolling 101, that stuff.
2013-02-03 12:34:02 AM  
1 votes:

drayno76: So he followed orders and was very good at it.... So were Nazi war criminals.... They heroes too? Your turn.


That's a stupid argument, and you win the dumbass-of-the-thread award for making it, and turning a Godwin.

The Nazis neither followed the laws and conventions of warfare of which they were a signatary to, or even their own national rules and regulations regarding the treatment of combatants and occupied peoples. It's a false comparison only someone either poorly educated in history, or entirely disingenious with an agenda would promote.
2013-02-03 12:33:01 AM  
1 votes:
God bless and God speed. Snipers are a special breed. Killers in every respect. Its what they are trained and deployed to do.
2013-02-03 12:32:21 AM  
1 votes:

Phil Moskowitz: All that PTSD and suicidal behaviour coming home from a couple meaningless wars is going to really start to pile on.

I wonder if they'll gin up a war with Iran just to keep the army personnel from dragging home their murderous rage.


Take someone that is mentally unstable, put them in a uniform to run amuck for a few years. That will get them home right as rain. No problems whatsoever.
2013-02-03 12:32:09 AM  
1 votes:

super_grass: BronyMedic: super_grass: [i970.photobucket.com image 553x700]

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.

[www.sadanduseless.com image 600x435]

I don't glorify murder.

Now go wave a flag like a good little Amerifat.


Oh look. You're so edgy. It's not "glorifying murder" to honor someone who served his country with distinction and honor. And it's not "murder" to put a bullet in the head of another soldier in wartime who is in the process of gunning down your buddies.

No country, or law, in the entire world defines murder as a death in active combat. But you go right on farking that chicken.
2013-02-03 12:31:46 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.

If you're actually being serious? He's a hero for undertaking a mission which only a select group of human beings, the number of which could be counted in the low thousands, in the history of the United States have been able to do. In doing so, he placed himself at extreme risk of capture by an enemy who would neither respect the laws and conventions of warfare, but would gleefully do horrific things to his corpse long after tortuing and murdering him to do so. His mission not only placed him in the realm of disproportionate risk as a soldier, but also provided a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer, allowing American and allied forces to do what they needed to do, without endangering civilians and noncombattants as much as a drone strike or artillery strike would have.

He did this while honoribly serving his country, and upholding the laws and values of the UCMJ and the conventions which we stuck to, even while others didn't.

So yes. That's why he's a hero. Some people aren't satisfied being BASH Commandos in a cubicle.



*Applause*
2013-02-03 12:31:02 AM  
1 votes:

Frank N Stein: justtray: "This facility has no guns. There's a gun range next door that is well armed with the sniper that killed a bunch of your countrymen. I will not attempt to stop you when you try to exact your revenge on him."

justtray: Thank god shooting spree killers never target gun ranges because they're so well armed.

Also, thankfully, one of the many armed heroes was able to stop this guy before he could commit terror. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.... except when they don't.

Don't stop now. You're on a roll.


Nah that's enough. That fully destroys a couple really stupid gun-nut talking points. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll come up with some new, equally invalid ones next week.

Open wide, liberals are coming!
2013-02-03 12:30:51 AM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: OK, you too, chuckles. How was he a hero.



By killing terrorists and doing more with his life than you ever will with yours.
2013-02-03 12:30:34 AM  
1 votes:

super_grass: Amerifat.


>>>4chan.org
2013-02-03 12:28:40 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: super_grass: [i970.photobucket.com image 553x700]

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.

[www.sadanduseless.com image 600x435]


I don't glorify murder.

Now go wave a flag like a good little Amerifat.
2013-02-03 12:28:06 AM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.

They're ignoring your trolling. It's pretty fail, bro.

It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.


He's a hero because he went to a foreign land, put himself in extreme danger and extreme discomfort, to kill a bunch of people as commanded by the people you put in charge. Satisfactory answer?
2013-02-03 12:27:01 AM  
1 votes:

nmemkha: The_Sponge: TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Seconded.

How are his actions Heroic? How has any war after W II been worth the lives it destroyed? Our soldiers aren't defending anything but a  mercenary's paycheck paid by the blood of the The People on behalf of corporate interests.


A person can be a hero by their own actions despite the greater theater of war being a goddamn shame. That includes snipers whose shattered psyches have twisted ethics around to maintain a shred of sanity.

I don't know if this guy was a murderous zealot when he signed up and neither do you. Bit if he joined because he fell for propaganda and wanted to serve at risk of his own life.. Well that is a hero isn't it?

Or do we have another definition to use?

I also believe people fighting on both sides of a war could be called hero by that same measure. Of course, I don't think as highly of heroes as many for that very reason. It doesn't mean right, just, ethical, or smart. At least not to me.
2013-02-03 12:25:51 AM  
1 votes:
BronyMedic: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.

They're ignoring your trolling. It's pretty fail, bro.

It's not trolling. It's an honest request. But apparently, I'm correct in my assertion that nobody can actually back up such claims.............bro.
2013-02-03 12:25:43 AM  
1 votes:

super_grass: [i970.photobucket.com image 553x700]

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.


www.sadanduseless.com
2013-02-03 12:25:35 AM  
1 votes:

factoryconnection: drayno76: ...and the Feds want to take away OUR guns?  Fark that, we need to take away the Governments guns, they obviously have no clue how to operate them safely.

What article did you read? In this one, a civilian at a civilian range murdered two men with his personal weapon.  Several involved have a federal-service background, but that's it.

The government agents managed to apprehend the unstable shooter without anyone else getting shot.  I'm not one for gun confiscations or bans, but the civilian gun owner in this story looks freaking BAD, and none of the other gunslingers there could do anything to stop him.


FTA: "Chris Kyle, a former Navy SEAL "

Ask any SEAL, once a SEAL always a SEAL....

FTA: "Investigators said Routh, a former Marine who is said to suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome "

Ask any Marine, once a Marine always a Marine.

The US government gives thousands of young men high power weapons, trains them to kill without prejudiced, runs them into the ground,
releases them into a killing field for far too long, and then send them home with the knowledge that they fought for some CEO's bottom line
and not a second of therapy.

Yes we need to take the farkin guns away from the government immediately.
2013-02-03 12:24:57 AM  
1 votes:

Old enough to know better: Protip to all you vets who may be suffering from PTSD. Going to a gun range and handling weapons might not be the best thing to do in your spare time.


The military should confiscate any weapon a soldier with PTSD has until a therapist says they are better.
2013-02-03 12:24:50 AM  
1 votes:

starlost: how about the mother who put a bullet in the back of her adult son's head and it was filmed on the security cams at a firing range?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30109090/#.UQ3yf6VEF8E


holy fark, that's horrible.
2013-02-03 12:22:50 AM  
1 votes:

100 Watt Walrus: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

Sooo, by that logic, there's no tragedy in the deaths of any American soldiers who fired on anyone in Iraq.

Disagree with our nation's military goals, fine. But you're just being a dick about the death of someone who you know nothing about beyond a few highlights of their military career, with nothing further (let alone anything useful or insightful) to offer.

/yes, we should never have gone to Iraq


i970.photobucket.com

/ If they had any integrity they would not have signed up in the first place.
2013-02-03 12:22:32 AM  
1 votes:
I'm shocked.

If a man starts shooting people at a gun range, you would figure he would be put down by everyone else at the range as an act of self defense.

I have no idea how he made it away from that range, unless it was a backwoods range where you only find a handful of people shooting.

At a range with 10+ people, that guy would've been toast from the first shot.
2013-02-03 12:22:00 AM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.


They're ignoring your trolling. It's pretty fail, bro.

100 Watt Walrus: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

Sooo, by that logic, there's no tragedy in the deaths of any American soldiers who fired on anyone in Iraq.

Disagree with our nation's military goals, fine. But you're just being a dick about the death of someone who you know nothing about beyond a few highlights of their military career, with nothing further (let alone anything useful or insightful) to offer.

/yes, we should never have gone to Iraq


THIS.
2013-02-03 12:21:01 AM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.


He fell down a well.  That's more than you did.
2013-02-03 12:20:42 AM  
1 votes:

3StratMan: First John Noveske, then Keith Ratliff, now Chris Kyle? Something fishy going on here...


Not really.Playing with guns just means you're likely to end up being a target
2013-02-03 12:19:44 AM  
1 votes:
Still waiting on the two bleeding-hearts who called him a hero. Explain how he was a hero.
2013-02-03 12:18:31 AM  
1 votes:
"Investigators said Routh, a former Marine who is said to suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome, is believed to have turned his weapon on Kyle and the second victim, killing them both at point-blank range"

Point-Blank Range would be a good name for a gun range.
2013-02-03 12:16:58 AM  
1 votes:
couldn't have been the best if he can't no scope
2013-02-03 12:16:33 AM  
1 votes:

Just_a_Bear: what was that about the need for better treatment for mental illnesses?


Especially for returning troops. The suicide rate anong Iraq and Afghanistan vets is appalling.
2013-02-03 12:15:16 AM  
1 votes:
...and the Feds want to take away OUR guns?  Fark that, we need to take away the Governments guns, they obviously have no clue how to operate them safely.
2013-02-03 12:13:47 AM  
1 votes:
Live by the gun ...
2013-02-03 12:12:33 AM  
1 votes:

TOWG: The first 10 commenters can all go and EABOD. RIP hero


Let's make it 13 as I rather enjoy dicks.
2013-02-03 12:11:05 AM  
1 votes:
I don't even know what to say.

That sucks.
2013-02-03 12:10:55 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: ontariolightning: So he shot a lot of people who were just defending their country from an invading force in an illegal war and that = an America hero?

I'm not too upset.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm surprised you don't know that a lot of the "insurgents" in Iraq were from places like Yemen, Somalia, Lebanon, etc.  Even some Iranian covert ops teams working to destabilize the new regime.


The sniper is farking coward. There is no honor in killing someone from a distance with the flex of a finger.

/Unless it's with a remotely guided drone.
2013-02-03 12:10:49 AM  
1 votes:
ah, the sniper's mortal enemy: the team swapping TKer.
2013-02-03 12:10:22 AM  
1 votes:
First John Noveske, then Keith Ratliff, now Chris Kyle? Something fishy going on here...
2013-02-03 12:05:54 AM  
1 votes:

Metalman71589: We need more guns in the gun ranges so this kind of thing can never happen again!


well done, sir
 
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