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(BBC)   Iran unveils new fighter aircraft that evades Photoshop   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Qaher F313, photoshop, Iran, sub-orbital spaceflight, military operation plan, combat aircraft  
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4720 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Feb 2013 at 3:20 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-02 03:25:38 PM  
Looks legit...
 
2013-02-02 03:26:49 PM  
FTFA:  'President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad said it had "almost all the positive features" of the world's most sophisticated jets.'.... except flight, he added under his breath.
 
2013-02-02 03:26:51 PM  
Iran is behind the times. They producing 2-3 of these per week in Haiti:

img.ibtimes.com
 
2013-02-02 03:27:02 PM  
probably has the radar signature of a smart car.
 
2013-02-02 03:27:37 PM  
To be flown by monkeys?
 
2013-02-02 03:28:25 PM  
What about Paint? Nothing can evade Paint.
 
2013-02-02 03:28:41 PM  

edmo: To be flown by monkeys?


I'll get you, my pretty.
 
2013-02-02 03:28:53 PM  
This story is geting old, some one better refresh it.....
 
2013-02-02 03:30:28 PM  
Iran's graphics department didn't have time to shop pics of the plane in flight; they're trying to learn GIMP and it's hard.
 
2013-02-02 03:30:41 PM  
They could at least build some seams into it. A big long piece of smooth fiberglass ain't going to fool anyone.
 
2013-02-02 03:35:59 PM  

Allen262: This story is geting old, some one better refresh it.....


Hmmm...?  This story is from today.
 
2013-02-02 03:36:43 PM  
 
2013-02-02 03:41:22 PM  
Where to begin...

inlet ducts too small, or engine too small

weird wing geometry, and too small by half to lift off with any kind of payload

It doesn't appear to be capable of thrust vectoring, looking at the exhaust port

My guess: The full-size is a mock-up and the flight footage is a scale model.
 
2013-02-02 03:42:37 PM  
Man, how do they get their models to fit together so nicely like that?: Mine always have glue and stuff all over the place. And I can never get the stickers right.
 
2013-02-02 03:43:29 PM  
Isn't this the country that just sent a monkey to space and had a different monkey return safely?
 
2013-02-02 03:43:43 PM  
Question: I seem to remember reading (and I may be wrong on this) that radar is actually sensitive enough to pick up even small birds. To avoid cluttering the screens, most radars have their sensitivy tweaked way down. So, my question is, could stealth be defeated by turning a radar's sensitivity way up and simply looking for the bird that's flying at 200+ knots?

/If DHS comes knocking at my door I'll know that my theory was correct.
 
2013-02-02 03:44:24 PM  
LOL... Obviously a model that's flying.
 
2013-02-02 03:44:43 PM  
Seems plausible, but I can't find any comments from folks in the aviation industry, just repeats of "Iran unveiled today what they say is a new plane" sorts of things.  Anyone have any commentary from aircraft experts?  Besides all of us here on Fark, of course.
 
2013-02-02 03:46:49 PM  
It's always wonderful to see these new planes that other countries develop "on their own" and look very similar to American aircraft.
 
2013-02-02 03:48:38 PM  

ActionJoe: It's always wonderful to see these new planes that other countries develop "on their own" and look very similar to American aircraft.


I have to wonder how an Iranian knock-off compares to a Chinese knock-off.
 
2013-02-02 03:49:51 PM  
At least they're planning for the inevitable a bit more realistically.
 
2013-02-02 03:50:53 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Question: I seem to remember reading (and I may be wrong on this) that radar is actually sensitive enough to pick up even small birds. To avoid cluttering the screens, most radars have their sensitivy tweaked way down. So, my question is, could stealth be defeated by turning a radar's sensitivity way up and simply looking for the bird that's flying at 200+ knots?

/If DHS comes knocking at my door I'll know that my theory was correct.


Radar can pick up individual raindrops and insects. A plane is made stealthy by covering it with materials that do not reflect radio waves and by making shapes that cause reflections to cancel each other out.
 
2013-02-02 03:51:06 PM  
That thing is pretty small, to the point where at best it's an engine with a chair strapped to the front.  Assuming it flies, it kinda looks like a deathtrap.
 
2013-02-02 03:51:08 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Iran's graphics department didn't have time to shop pics of the plane in flight taking off and landing; they're trying to learn GIMP and it's hard.


ftfm
 
2013-02-02 03:51:24 PM  
Nice small jet. Good for quick strafing runs while avoiding being a big lump of plane that is really easy to hit.

/In tomorrows news: Israel demands that Iran be nuked as the plane could carry nukes to drop on nettingyahoo's crystal palace.
 
2013-02-02 03:51:51 PM  
The room they're displaying it in looks like the YMCA or the inside of the neighborhood hockey rink.
 
2013-02-02 03:59:41 PM  
"Iran's Defence Minister Ahmad Vahidi said was built with "advanced materials" and had a very low radar signature. "

In all honesty he's right. Plywood and bondo filler do have low radar-reflecting properties.
 
2013-02-02 04:07:55 PM  

sheep snorter: Nice small jet. Good for quick strafing runs while avoiding being a big lump of plane that is really easy to hit.

/In tomorrows news: Israel demands that Iran be nuked as the plane could carry nukes to drop on nettingyahoo's crystal palace.



If you think that thing is actually a functional aircraft I have an Iranian space monkey to sell you.
 
2013-02-02 04:10:49 PM  
Inside Iran's jet.

i48.tinypic.com

Inside of real jets.

i50.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-02 04:11:16 PM  

TV's Vinnie: "Iran's Defence Minister Ahmad Vahidi said was built with "advanced materials" and had a very low radar signature. "

In all honesty he's right. Plywood and bondo filler do have low radar-reflecting properties.


This!
 
2013-02-02 04:11:41 PM  
meh....just a smoothed out Iran Khodro Paykan 1600, with a new paint job and maybe AM/FM radio.

media.caranddriver.com

Tune in next week for the Khodro Paykan 1700 Stealth Boat announcement to take place at the local swim club.
 
2013-02-02 04:18:35 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Question: I seem to remember reading (and I may be wrong on this) that radar is actually sensitive enough to pick up even small birds. To avoid cluttering the screens, most radars have their sensitivy tweaked way down. So, my question is, could stealth be defeated by turning a radar's sensitivity way up and simply looking for the bird that's flying at 200+ knots?


I thought the same.

Maybe humans would get confused watching tens of thousands of birds (or however many there are in radar range), but a computer ought to quickly see which ones doesn't behave like birds.

AFAIK the new thing isn't to hide the planes, but try to make them like something that you wouldn't shoot down. Like a passenger jet. The Chinese has a system for that where they can make their planes appear bigger, thus not looking like a fighter jet.

Though I imagine that during a war, any planes would be shot down, so I wonder if it's useful for anything beyond Pearl Harbour scenarios.
 
2013-02-02 04:20:46 PM  

DoomPaul: Inside Iran's jet.

[i48.tinypic.com image 850x566]

Inside of real jets.

[i50.tinypic.com image 850x612]


In the Iranian one, does that bit at the top of the dash look like a car radio to anyone else? I'm sure I've seen that in Generic American Car #4 recently.
 
2013-02-02 04:22:06 PM  

Five Tails of Fury: DoomPaul: Inside Iran's jet.

[i48.tinypic.com image 850x566]

Inside of real jets.

[i50.tinypic.com image 850x612]

In the Iranian one, does that bit at the top of the dash look like a car radio to anyone else? I'm sure I've seen that in Generic American Car #4 recently.


How do you expect the pilot to listen to the Top Gun soundtrack?
 
2013-02-02 04:25:02 PM  

Five Tails of Fury: DoomPaul: Inside Iran's jet.

[i48.tinypic.com image 850x566]

Inside of real jets.

[i50.tinypic.com image 850x612]

In the Iranian one, does that bit at the top of the dash look like a car radio to anyone else? I'm sure I've seen that in Generic American Car #4 recently.


Holy balls, I think that's exactly what it is.  It looks kind of like the one I used to have in my 1991 Mazda 626.
 
2013-02-02 04:26:45 PM  

Cambrian: Summer Glau's Love Slave: Question: I seem to remember reading (and I may be wrong on this) that radar is actually sensitive enough to pick up even small birds. To avoid cluttering the screens, most radars have their sensitivy tweaked way down. So, my question is, could stealth be defeated by turning a radar's sensitivity way up and simply looking for the bird that's flying at 200+ knots?

/If DHS comes knocking at my door I'll know that my theory was correct.

Radar can pick up individual raindrops and insects. A plane is made stealthy by covering it with materials that do not reflect radio waves and by making shapes that cause reflections to cancel each other out.


stealth also works simply by reflecting the radar energy away from the emitter (which also happens to have an antenna right next to it looking for the return signal). I believe that's why passive radar can defeat stealth. in a passive array you simply have multiple receivers and use the radiation that is coming from numerous em radiation sources in a modern society (cell towers, microwave transmitters, radio transmitters, etc) to pinpoint the location of a stealth plane.
 
2013-02-02 04:34:41 PM  

DoomPaul: Inside Iran's jet.


Ok, I see the CD player, but I don't see any speakers.  And I'm pretty sure my car has the same in-car GPS as that plane.
 
2013-02-02 04:36:34 PM  
That triangular signage there outside the cockpit - why is it in English?  Why is it not at least bilingual?

Full-sized static mock-up and probably 1/4-scale RC flight model.

Weird planform, too, with those droopy-assed wingtips.
 
2013-02-02 04:40:19 PM  

spawn73: Summer Glau's Love Slave: Question: I seem to remember reading (and I may be wrong on this) that radar is actually sensitive enough to pick up even small birds. To avoid cluttering the screens, most radars have their sensitivy tweaked way down. So, my question is, could stealth be defeated by turning a radar's sensitivity way up and simply looking for the bird that's flying at 200+ knots?

I thought the same.

Maybe humans would get confused watching tens of thousands of birds (or however many there are in radar range), but a computer ought to quickly see which ones doesn't behave like birds.

AFAIK the new thing isn't to hide the planes, but try to make them like something that you wouldn't shoot down. Like a passenger jet. The Chinese has a system for that where they can make their planes appear bigger, thus not looking like a fighter jet.

Though I imagine that during a war, any planes would be shot down, so I wonder if it's useful for anything beyond Pearl Harbour scenarios.


I will say something and the immediately contradict myself. Low RCS cannot be detected by short wavelength radars used by nearly every radar/missile system in the world. The size references used (bird, golfball, ballbearing) are just because most people dont understand attenuation in dB. The most powerful X-Band radars can detect something the size of a baseball at a couple hundred miles(I may need to check that number). However, they are mounted on platforms the size of oil rigs.

They can be detected, to some degree, by older longer wavelength radars. It has been explained to me that everything will look like a dipole when the wavelength approached the size of the aircraft. It has been rumored that L-Band radars were used to track, engage, and destroy the F-117 over Kosovo. It appears that this effect is fairly limited as we are still investing in low RCS aircraft.

It has also been stated that the F-35 radar can detect Low RCS targets. There have been reports of the JSF flying test rig detecting F-22 flying in formation with F-15s (or some similar scenario). I have no idea about what range was involved.
 
2013-02-02 04:44:38 PM  

dionysusaur: That triangular signage there outside the cockpit - why is it in English?  Why is it not at least bilingual?

Full-sized static mock-up and probably 1/4-scale RC flight model.

Weird planform, too, with those droopy-assed wingtips.


Ya, the warning sticker being in English was weird but then again air traffic controllers worldwide all speak English. I don't know if that applied to foreign militaries (doubtful) but I could have sworn I've seen English warnings on Chinese jets too, but I need to find the pictures.

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but I have never seen any other plane with downward facing wingtips.

i45.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-02 04:46:45 PM  
Look at the edge of the cockpit, it looks like frickin poorly welded sheet metal.....
 
2013-02-02 04:47:52 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Question: I seem to remember reading (and I may be wrong on this) that radar is actually sensitive enough to pick up even small birds. To avoid cluttering the screens, most radars have their sensitivy tweaked way down. So, my question is, could stealth be defeated by turning a radar's sensitivity way up and simply looking for the bird that's flying at 200+ knots?

/If DHS comes knocking at my door I'll know that my theory was correct.


Longer Wavelength Radar systems can pick them up with out seeing every bug and speck of dirt . Interlinked radar systems can find aircraft that reflect radar. One transmitter may not see any thing since its radar wave is being reflected off the aircraft at 45 degrees but the 2nd that is linked to the 1st will see "hot spot" because it is pick up the 1st transmitter radar wave that was reflect off the aircraft.

Interlinked radar systems render the F-117  just about stealth-less. When it comes to Stealth Fighters there heat signature and own radar system can give there position away.
 
2013-02-02 04:50:36 PM  
I really wish we could just call them on their BS...
 
2013-02-02 04:53:38 PM  

DoomPaul: dionysusaur: That triangular signage there outside the cockpit - why is it in English?  Why is it not at least bilingual?

Full-sized static mock-up and probably 1/4-scale RC flight model.

Weird planform, too, with those droopy-assed wingtips.

Ya, the warning sticker being in English was weird but then again air traffic controllers worldwide all speak English. I don't know if that applied to foreign militaries (doubtful) but I could have sworn I've seen English warnings on Chinese jets too, but I need to find the pictures.

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but I have never seen any other plane with downward facing wingtips.

[i45.tinypic.com image 600x418]


I think I have seen this one before...
rob.com
 
2013-02-02 05:05:47 PM  

DoomPaul: I'm not an aerospace engineer, but I have never seen any other plane with downward facing wingtips.


dionysusaur: Weird planform, too, with those droopy-assed wingtips.


Boeing did something like that with their Bird of Prey stealth demonstrator.

upload.wikimedia.org

I was working there and got to see it during the unveiling in St. Louis.
 
2013-02-02 05:08:47 PM  

DoomPaul: dionysusaur: That triangular signage there outside the cockpit - why is it in English?  Why is it not at least bilingual?

Full-sized static mock-up and probably 1/4-scale RC flight model.

Weird planform, too, with those droopy-assed wingtips.

Ya, the warning sticker being in English was weird but then again air traffic controllers worldwide all speak English. I don't know if that applied to foreign militaries (doubtful) but I could have sworn I've seen English warnings on Chinese jets too, but I need to find the pictures.

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but I have never seen any other plane with downward facing wingtips.

[i45.tinypic.com image 600x418]



t0.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-02 05:13:40 PM  

crab66: Look at the edge of the cockpit, it looks like frickin poorly welded sheet metal.....


Looking at the inside of the fuselage, I'd swear that was just poured fiberglass.
 
2013-02-02 05:23:06 PM  
That thing looks like it could carry well in excess of a 100 lbs of missles and bombs.  Definitely an air superiority fighter... meaning you'd need air superiority before you'd actually find any use at all for it.
 
2013-02-02 05:31:11 PM  
They can't expect anyone to believe this. It must be loyalty test. Kill anyone who points out that the Clint Eastwood movie Firefox more convincingly simulated a non-existent aircraft with 30-year-old special effects. Obviously the global intelligence community knows this is fake too, so this ruse serves no purpose in intimidating neighbors.
 
2013-02-02 05:32:46 PM  
the edge of the fuselage in the cockpit is hilarious... it IS just fiberglass, and like 1/2" think... And Look how rough the mating surface between canopy and cockpit would be... look at the texture. It's like paper mache....

Also, they have some home depot brackets holding things behind the ejection seat, and look at the controls on the right side of the cockpit. They are under a shelf of fuselage... how the hell are you supposed to reach those in combat? Also not nearly enough space for radar infront of that cockpit in the nose...

So, I'd bet a trillion dollars this is fake, and the flight video is either CGI or an RC plane...
 
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