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(Think Progress)   62% of workers 45-60 will continue to compete with you for jobs because they can no longer afford to retire   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 179
    More: Obvious, Conference Board  
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1341 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Feb 2013 at 4:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-02 11:38:25 PM  
sammyk:
That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.

If the discrimination can be proven. Consider this: a position is advertised, you apply, all the potential employer has to do is google your name to find out how old you are OR look at the experience you put on your resume.

They never call you back if you're fortunate enough to get an interview, or never call you for an interview at all.

How can you prove discrimination? Proof is what counts in court. Sexual harassment cases must have a documented record of assholiness by the harasser to hold up in court, as do racial discrimination cases. If you never get hired in the first place it will be difficult that you weren't hired because of your age.
 
2013-02-02 11:40:48 PM  
missed "to show" that you weren't hired because of your age.
 
2013-02-02 11:44:13 PM  
This is why I got a job with a pension and a deferred compensation plan.  Sure working for the gubbamint has it's drawbacks, but being a  near 50 year old IT worker, it looks good from my vantage point.

///I have my retirement scheduled for between 59.5 and 62.
 
2013-02-02 11:44:51 PM  

alwaysjaded: Krieghund: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?

Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.

Heh. Got beat on one. Will add Motley Fool. Thanks.




You might also subscribe to Naked Capitalism daily email. It's a commentary on economics and financial news. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/
 
2013-02-02 11:44:57 PM  

rewind2846: sammyk:
That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.

If the discrimination can be proven. Consider this: a position is advertised, you apply, all the potential employer has to do is google your name to find out how old you are OR look at the experience you put on your resume.

They never call you back if you're fortunate enough to get an interview, or never call you for an interview at all.

How can you prove discrimination? Proof is what counts in court. Sexual harassment cases must have a documented record of assholiness by the harasser to hold up in court, as do racial discrimination cases. If you never get hired in the first place it will be difficult that you weren't hired because of your age.


The starting hypothesis is still long-running careers with the same company, unfortunately that paradigm has mostly disappeared from the positions that are not management/sales.  Most people who actually WORK for a living (/cheapshot) are basically expected to switch jobs on a regular basis because if they don't they're being "Haws" and "complaining someone moved their cheese."

Mind you, plenty of folks DO, it's a complex world with a lot of foibles and failures, but the current wealth disparity in America makes it pretty clear which side's propaganda is more accurate.
 
2013-02-02 11:47:08 PM  

ajgeek: Can you regulate greed? Is that possible?


You can always tax it.  Maybe.
 
2013-02-02 11:52:10 PM  
I apparently work with the 38%.

"Why can't I open the files in the zip file?"

"Did you extract the files first?"

"........."
 
2013-02-03 12:01:53 AM  

Frozboz: mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.

See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.




Your very smart to ask that question now. Ageism is rampant in the hi tech industry. It's really bad in Silicon Valley.

I moved to finance. I specialized in an database/application used by finance departments. Finance is where the money is at.
 
2013-02-03 12:02:39 AM  

TheBigJerk: Are you  farking kidding?  Right-to-work legislation buddy, they can fire your ass for any god-damn thing and you ain't winnin' that lawsuit unless you ARE the lawyer, and a damn good one.  It's already in too many states and the Neofeudalists lobby every day to get it passed in the rest.


What does right to work legislation have to do with discrimination? Even in a right to work state, you can still sue for racial hiring discrimination, for example. Age discrimination is a hell of a lot harder to sue, but any large corporation with deep pockets is going to be a honey pot for a class action if they demonstrate a bias against hiring qualified older workers. Never underestimate the power of hungry lawyers. I've been involved in hiring employees before in a previous job, and our HR people had a scared straight talk with us about not even giving the APPEARANCE of bias accidentally. Again, smaller companies can pull this shiat, but large companies are big fat targets for lawsuits.
 
2013-02-03 12:09:47 AM  

alwaysjaded: jst3p:

Time and money heals a FICO score.

Thanks for the link. I'm just getting started with all this crap and that should make for some great reading.

HempHead:

Read

Added to Amazon. Thanks.

InmanRoshi:

Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.

Thanks. Need something else besides Ramsey. He's got some good advice but then the whole religion/politics comes into play then I start tuning out.

dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.

clowncar on fire: Talk to you lendi ...

Thank you for that very detailed answer. This thread has been great for knowing where to start. Enjoy your free month.


Wow, normally I'm considered a pariah here on the politics tab for my more conservative point of view.

You start talking survival economics- there is no left and right as we are all in this one together.  All the advice I passed on to you has gotten me started or kept me out of a financial bind.  I've always paid attention to where my money was, where my obligations were, and where I want to be.  It's a daunting task getting started, especially with all the more interesting options other than saving or paying off your debts, but I assure you it gets better as that 401k clears that first 10k, car gets paid off, credit blows through the 800 mark, etc. The fact your asking questions now means you are already taking the first steps in formulating your financial plan for the future.

I wish you the best of luck, thanks for the membership for the month.  Much appreciated as I have been meaning to try out total fark on a test run.  Being sponsored just makes it all that sweeter!
 
2013-02-03 12:30:13 AM  
This is what happens when you "profit" from working the middle and working class like slaves.

Enjoy Snowcrash.
 
2013-02-03 01:51:24 AM  

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


How many times do you have to be told to pay for everything with a credit card but pay it off each month?
 
2013-02-03 01:54:16 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Harry_Seldon: This is not true for many mortgage products. 80/10/10 loans are a good way to avoid PMI on a conventional loans. Banks will give you a HELOC for 10% down, and this is a nice line of credit you can pay down. However the rate on this 10% is higher, and can be variable.

I have seen fixed conventional loans recently as high as 95/5 with no PMI. Basically, you pay a slightly higher interest rate instead of PMI.

Where? I haven't seen a single bank in years willing to even talk about a 80/10/10.


US Bank gave me a 80/10/10 in November. The financing was non eventful.
 
2013-02-03 02:23:15 AM  

coeyagi: I apparently work with the 38%.

"Why can't I open the files in the zip file?"

"Did you extract the files first?"

"........."


That has nothing to do with age. I've had to tell people both older and younger than myself that kind of thing on a regular basis. There are people in their 20s and in their 60s who think that computers are some kind of magic destructo weapon that will implode upon being given the wrong command...and people in both age groups who evidently believe that there are little people inside the computer who hide files so they cannot find them later.
 
2013-02-03 03:01:06 AM  

Lawnchair: Notabunny: "The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012." That's $300 per week.

The others are scary.  This one, though? Poor, but not impossibly so.

Maybe it's just because of where my retired relatives live (smaller town Plains).  But:

Couple 1: Smaller town in KS. Still a few years out of paying off a $45k house, but mortgage/tax/insurance is ~$450 a month.  Two SS checks of around $1000 each.
Widow 2: Smaller town KS. HUD-subsidized senior apartment ~$350 out of her ~$1000.
Couple 3: Paid off in SD. Tax/insurance ~$200 (but utilities are more)
Couple 4: HUD/town senior apartment in rural MN. Only $250 out of their combined $1500 SS checks (that granny almost never worked outside the home).

So, $700-$1000 per person per month in general expenses.  Not impossible. Easier with a partner or roommate.

Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.  Yes, you're screwed six ways if you have to go into longer-term care, but you're broke anyway.

Remember... literally millions of people in this country DO live on nothing but a Social Security check.  They may have pretty boring lifestyles. But, by and large, they aren't starving in the streets either.


I wonder if the millions of elderly living in poverty and bankruptcy share your view
 
2013-02-03 07:29:56 AM  

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


No it doesn't.
 
2013-02-03 07:44:27 AM  

HempHead: alwaysjaded: Krieghund: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?

Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.

Heh. Got beat on one. Will add Motley Fool. Thanks.



You might also subscribe to Naked Capitalism daily email. It's a commentary on economics and financial news. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/


Added. Thanks.
 
2013-02-03 07:48:23 AM  

clowncar on fire: alwaysjaded: jst3p:

Time and money heals a FICO score.

Thanks for the link. I'm just getting started with all this crap and that should make for some great reading.

HempHead:

Read

Added to Amazon. Thanks.

InmanRoshi:

Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.

Thanks. Need something else besides Ramsey. He's got some good advice but then the whole religion/politics comes into play then I start tuning out.

dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.

clowncar on fire: Talk to you lendi ...

Thank you for that very detailed answer. This thread has been great for knowing where to start. Enjoy your free month.

Wow, normally I'm considered a pariah here on the politics tab for my more conservative point of view.

You start talking survival economics- there is no left and right as we are all in this one together.  All the advice I passed on to you has gotten me started or kept me out of a financial bind.  I've always paid attention to where my money was, where my obligations were, and where I want to be.  It's a daunting task getting started, especially with all the more interesting options other than saving or paying off your debts, but I assure you it gets better as that 401k clears that first 10k, car gets paid off, credit blows through the 800 mark, etc. The fact your asking questions now means you are already taking the first steps in formulating your financial plan for the future.

I wish you the best of luck, thanks for the membership for the month.  Much appreciated as I have been meaning to try out total fark on a test run.  Being sponsored just makes it all that sweeter!


Eh, my politics are in shades of gray. I'm willing to listen to anyone, regardless of what we disagree on. Plus, if I dismissed everyone cause we didn't see eye to eye on everything I wouldn't have any friends. So thanks, I'll research and apply what will work and discard what won't work.
 
2013-02-03 07:51:39 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

How many times do you have to be told to pay for everything with a credit card but pay it off each month?


Countless. I'm starting from zero basically. Spent my growing years getting my ass kicked by life and most of my 20's in a steamy love affair with narcotics. Got clean years ago, took a few years to dig out of that crater sized hole and now it's time get serious about my finances.

Plus, first time I've even HAD money that didn't immediately go to a dealer.
 
2013-02-03 09:13:32 AM  

ghare: johne3819: I thought we're supposed to work til we're 70 now right?  Isn't that what Romney and supporters were saying during the election?  The SS age is needs to be raised is all the rage.  I mean since we live to be 72 now, we should be cool with 2 years..

Just FYI, SS retirement age HAS ALREADY been raised, back in the 80's. But nah, really, they should raise it again, because Romney pays way too much in taxes already.


SS is going to go insolvent at some point without changes. People simply haven't been paying in enough is SS taxes to support the benefit that they expect. Raising the age and lowering benefits are the prudent and fair things to do.
 
2013-02-03 11:50:53 AM  

alwaysjaded: Countless. I'm starting from zero basically. Spent my growing years getting my ass kicked by life and most of my 20's in a steamy love affair with narcotics. Got clean years ago, took a few years to dig out of that crater sized hole and now it's time get serious about my finances.


Besides the credit card paid each month (which is excellent advice), look for financing other purchases as well.  One example - look for deals where there is no interest for X months (and make sure that there's no penalty for early payment - the goal is to pay off everything within X-1 months and pay the same as if you paid cash).  These are technically lines of credit and show up as such on a credit history report.

Also, make sure your apartment and utilities are paid for on time every month for five years; a single missed payment can wreak havoc on your credit.

Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.
 
2013-02-03 09:39:38 PM  

itsdan: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.

It's actually a bit late. Start now. Just open an IRA and start depositing money routinely. If you can have your employer send a fixed amount or % automatically (via a split direct deposit if you use that) even better. Traditional IRA's = tax deduction now, pay taxes on earnings when you take them. Roth IRA = pay taxes now, no taxes when you take it later. I went with traditional since I figure tax rates will be lower for me when I retire and have no income.


Index funds in a Roth IRA. An IRA is just a tax status. You still have to put your money somewhere, and an Index fund is the safest for a 10+ year timeline.  When you learn more about it you can take some of the money (10-15%) and start putting it in higher-risk higher-yield funds or stocks. But wait until you know more about it.
 
2013-02-04 10:18:22 AM  
When your generation feels that it needs to implement "right to fire" laws around the country to protect It's "maker" class, while removing union protections, and simultaneously raising the age requirements for Medicaid and social security benefits, don't complain when said laws keep your "real american" ass on the grind until you check into the old folks home.
 
2013-02-04 11:24:53 AM  

Frozboz: mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.

See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.


It's not a stupid question.  I am 53 and I still do coding and analysis.  There is a role for the senior engineer/technical specialist.  I also go out to client sites.  I fill-in do to end-user training when needed, and I do some database management.  The variety of skills and experience keeps me employed. Management is not the only route - maybe not at your company, but certainly at others.
 
2013-02-04 11:29:36 AM  

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


I was in a similar situation when I bought my house (no debt, no credit cards).  They took "traditional credit", meaning I had to get letters from utility companies saying I was never late on a payment.  I also now have a Discover card that I use to buy stuff, then pay off to build credit.  Additional benefits from having another card are cash back and not having to worry about the credit card linked to my bank account getting stolen again.
 
2013-02-04 01:23:43 PM  
Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.

Bullshiat.
 
2013-02-04 08:43:51 PM  
I doesn't matter any way . Acording to polls there are not enough Americans who are willing to fill those jobs anyway .
 
2013-02-04 10:22:41 PM  

Madbassist1: Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.

Bullshiat.



The FICO score is bullshait. The FICO doesn't indicate how financially successful you are, it indicates how well you borrow money and pay it back.

Someone with credit card debt, car loan debt, student loan debt, mortgage debt and home equity debt would have a higher FICO score than someone who pays cash for everything, even though the chance of default for the cash user would be lower than the one who is up to their neck in hock.
 
2013-02-05 09:55:17 AM  

dustman81: Madbassist1: Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.

Bullshiat.


The FICO score is bullshait. The FICO doesn't indicate how financially successful you are, it indicates how well you borrow money and pay it back.

Someone with credit card debt, car loan debt, student loan debt, mortgage debt and home equity debt would have a higher FICO score than someone who pays cash for everything, even though the chance of default for the cash user would be lower than the one who is up to their neck in hock.


Not disagreeing with you in any way. I'm merely saying that getting another card does not lower your score. Having more credit available to you will increase your score. I think someone who pays for everything in cash is probably more responsible than someone who doesnt
 
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