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(Think Progress)   62% of workers 45-60 will continue to compete with you for jobs because they can no longer afford to retire   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 179
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1341 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Feb 2013 at 4:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-02 07:46:45 PM

Sum Dum Gai: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

I'd disagree.  When I hire, I look for aptitude over experience.

Someone with great aptitude but low experience will start off slow but rise far.  Someone with great experience but low aptitude will never be any better than the day they were hired.


Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.
 
2013-02-02 07:48:12 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.




Read

ia700804.us.archive.org
 
2013-02-02 07:48:14 PM
62% of workers 45-60 will continue to compete with you for jobs

Not if Microsoft continues to release exotic and mystifying layout enhancements like the ribbon bar.
 
2013-02-02 07:49:26 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.
 
2013-02-02 07:51:50 PM

Sultan Of Herf: Im supporting a family of 4 on less than $14/hr. Sure we get food stamps but thats it,


When Republicans refer to leeches, they're talking about you.

/God forbid they encourage their buddies to pay their workers enough to not have to use food stamps.
 
2013-02-02 07:52:10 PM
It is interesting that conservatives point to people leaving the labor force as evidence of a bad Obama economy, but at the same time they point to old people continuing to work beyond retirement age as also evidence of a bad Obama economy. Apparently the only people struggling to find jobs are in the 25-39 age group.
 
2013-02-02 07:55:46 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Depends who's hiring. I've seen studies that have shown that many people will plateau after only a couple years and in some cases are less productive than someone learning new skills because they are simply trying harder.
 
2013-02-02 07:56:04 PM

sammyk: Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.


Oh, I think it's frighteningly common, at least from my perspective.  I work in software development, and I've seen plenty of people with 10 years experience that really are mediocre developers who will never improve.  Getting rid of a few of them was one of the best decisions I made - their replacements were fresh college grads, and the initial loss of experience was a challenge, but in the long run it actually didn't take as long as I feared for the new hires to reach and then surpass the abilities of the ones I let go.

The really terrible people don't seem to make it (except, it seems, as consultants), but I've seen too many mediocre individuals who were able to stick around long enough to build just enough experience that their managers feared letting them go.
 
2013-02-02 08:00:45 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Fark just congratulated me on my 29th birthday....
For retirement I have..... ah, -$62,000 dollars saved up.
Student loans are fun. The rest of you who actually have money to spare for an IRA have it too easy.


Ran up ~$4K in loans back in the 80's during my 3 years of college.  i owe it all to work study, two part time jobs while in school, working and saving all summer, used books, and keeping a cool head about spending.  I wanted to go partying, I literally collected beer cans around for campus for an hour and cashed them in my first year, or jumped other people's cars during the winter as lots were cleared and cars were towed at the owner's expense.  Being the chief investor into a neighbor's dormroom bar kept me in free alchohol for my last two years.  Frat parties can be a moocher's best friend when you arrive politely late as well.
 
2013-02-02 08:02:01 PM
 
2013-02-02 08:02:12 PM
fark my life... and theirs apparently.
 
2013-02-02 08:03:33 PM

Sum Dum Gai: sammyk: Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.

Oh, I think it's frighteningly common, at least from my perspective.  I work in software development, and I've seen plenty of people with 10 years experience that really are mediocre developers who will never improve.  Getting rid of a few of them was one of the best decisions I made - their replacements were fresh college grads, and the initial loss of experience was a challenge, but in the long run it actually didn't take as long as I feared for the new hires to reach and then surpass the abilities of the ones I let go.

The really terrible people don't seem to make it (except, it seems, as consultants), but I've seen too many mediocre individuals who were able to stick around long enough to build just enough experience that their managers feared letting them go.


Some tech fields are ever evolving and require continuous training to keep up with the technology- so regardless of being there for 2 years or ten years, everyday is a new day
 
2013-02-02 08:07:39 PM

mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.


Well of course. A 60 year old is counting down the days until retirement. The article is talking about people over 45.
 
2013-02-02 08:10:12 PM
Retired Jan 1st

Now my plan is to haunt FARK and dispense my wisdom to the masses.
 
2013-02-02 08:12:30 PM

clowncar on fire: Ran up ~$4K in loans back in the 80's during my 3 years of college. i owe it all to work study, two part time jobs while in school, working and saving all summer, used books, and keeping a cool head about spending. I wanted to go partying, I literally collected beer cans around for campus for an hour and cashed them in my first year, or jumped other people's cars during the winter as lots were cleared and cars were towed at the owner's expense. Being the chief investor into a neighbor's dormroom bar kept me in free alchohol for my last two years. Frat parties can be a moocher's best friend when you arrive politely late as well.


That was in the 80's. Times have changed.
I worked a full time job while in college, although it was still just food service crap. I technically borrowed $40K to get two degrees, which doesn't seem like a bad deal at today's prices, but then the recession happened and I spent 2 years unable to do much but make token payments and interest took care of the rest.
I didn't party, I wasn't a big spender, and I didn't even have a cell phone the first two years and then my mother bought me one so she could get ahold of me. I worked, I went to school. I had roomates. My last year there I had 5 roomates.
You can't scrimp and save and collect beer cans when a semester now costs as much as your entire 3 years did back then. Hell, my first two years I had a "full" scholarship. It paid tuition only. Not fees. Not room and board. Those two years still left me $8000 in the hole if I'm remembering right, even after the scholarships. I went for off-campus housing after that...
 
2013-02-02 08:13:00 PM

Droog8912: Easy way to build credit: get credit card, always pay off card every month.  I had a FICO score around 810 as a result of that when I bought my house.  I simply don't spend cash, and keep track of what I'm spending on my card.  Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.


LOL. Good luck with that in a place like the SF Bay area, where starter homes are going for >$500K and are selling for above asking. Or does everyone have $100K in cash just laying around?
 
2013-02-02 08:13:03 PM
This is another nail in the coffin of the Republican party.
 
2013-02-02 08:14:32 PM

Harry_Seldon: 45-62

Isn't that the cohort which is responsible for running the whole shebang?

You do the youth thing. Discover yourself in your 20's. Hone your skills through your 30's. Step up to the decision making in your 40's. Senior management in 50's. Emeritus in your 60's. Retire, and know your turned things over in good shape. Early retirement is irresponsible.


That was the whole classic Japanese 'salaryman' model.  Which somewhat worked through the 1960-70s when, due to a baby boom and lots of the older guys having been killed off in wars, there were twice as many 30-something "honing their skills" guys as 50-something "senior management" guys.

This fails pretty badly in demographic structures like today's Japan/Korea (and going that way in Italy, Germany, Greece, etc) where there's actually a lot more 50-somethings than 30-somethings for them to theoretically manage.  Through the early 90s, Japan (I go to them, since they're the first ones down this demographic track) kept a lot of the 50-60-somethings at their companies.  Working 60-70 hour weeks. Substantial numbers of them ended up doing just about jack-shiat but shuffling paper and getting paid.  Eventually, international competition made that untenable.  Now... they just don't hire 20-somethings.  Those 20-somethings now, to compound the problem, don't buy cars or houses any more, and can't afford to date, marry, or have kids.
 
2013-02-02 08:16:57 PM

Granny_Panties: I retired at age 39. Suck it haters.

/computers rule


Nobody retires at age 39 from "computers". They do it by lucking into being employee number 1 through 10 at the right start-up.
 
2013-02-02 08:17:23 PM

theknuckler_33: 45 to 60 is the age people typically retire?


No it is when people start targeting their approximate retirement date. When they face job loss, declining home values, borrowing from retirement savings, they take a look at their financial situation and think, "I'm going to have to work X more years than I planned.".
 
2013-02-02 08:19:47 PM

edmo: I was going to retire at 56.


But your dyslexia got in the way?
 
2013-02-02 08:21:19 PM

theknuckler_33: 45 to 60 is the age people typically retire?


Certainly not now and probably not back then, but the 30 years and a pension system used to be a lot more common than now.
 
2013-02-02 08:23:45 PM
my credit score is over 800 and i've yet to earn more than 30k per annum. i think the same people who calculate the pre-season ap football polls must be involved in calculating credit scores...

/and with my meager income and great credit, i'll be on track to retire at about 97
 
2013-02-02 08:25:01 PM

Sum Dum Gai: sammyk: Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.

Oh, I think it's frighteningly common, at least from my perspective.  I work in software development, and I've seen plenty of people with 10 years experience that really are mediocre developers who will never improve.  Getting rid of a few of them was one of the best decisions I made - their replacements were fresh college grads, and the initial loss of experience was a challenge, but in the long run it actually didn't take as long as I feared for the new hires to reach and then surpass the abilities of the ones I let go.

The really terrible people don't seem to make it (except, it seems, as consultants), but I've seen too many mediocre individuals who were able to stick around long enough to build just enough experience that their managers feared letting them go.


I've found this to be true as well. The least productive employees tend to be the ones resting on their "experience" laurels. They sit around all day "being team lead" and sitting in meetings, but doing basically nothing productive because they don't have the aptitude or energy to crank out code. I work with senior programmers who haven't written a line of code in 2 years -- they're so experienced they're needed in meetings instead of behind a keyboard. Management is terrified of them leaving and wouldn't consider firing them, because they see software engineering as black magic that takes 10 years of secret, specialized knowledge to do right.
 
2013-02-02 08:28:28 PM

Harry_Seldon: This is not true for many mortgage products. 80/10/10 loans are a good way to avoid PMI on a conventional loans. Banks will give you a HELOC for 10% down, and this is a nice line of credit you can pay down. However the rate on this 10% is higher, and can be variable.

I have seen fixed conventional loans recently as high as 95/5 with no PMI. Basically, you pay a slightly higher interest rate instead of PMI.


Where? I haven't seen a single bank in years willing to even talk about a 80/10/10.
 
2013-02-02 08:37:16 PM

unlikely: What percentage of 45 year olds were retiring 20 years ago?


==================

THIS

Assuming you graduated college at 22 maybe 24 or 26 years old with an advanced degree, someone made enough money to live on, pay off college, help put their kids through school, maybe take care of elderly parents and retire at 45, with enough money for you and your spouse to live on maybe another 30 to 40 years, with no other income?


/never has, and never will be done legally
 
2013-02-02 08:38:41 PM

Droog8912: a) consumer-driven culture: most people are too stupid to plan for retirement accordingly, as they need the iPhone 5, iPad2, or 65" LED TV because the previous model doesn't have the feature they want
b) many people are still screwed by the housing bubble
c) housing prices will continue to stagnate as boomers try to "cash out" on the massive houses they purchased but have a reduced demand for such housing
d) recessions delay retirements
e) medical technology means longer lifespans, lower infant mortality rate for those with crippling birth defects, illness, etc. leading to higher medical costs
f) longer lifespans mean medical expenses skyrocket, high cost of living
g) higher costs of living mean less consumable income (and conspicuous consumption will have to drop)
h) overly generous benefits/pensions and poor planning to pay for them, particularly of state/local government unfunded liabilities, will weigh heavily upon he economy in the future
i) excessive executive compensation

Result: job market changes, everyone will have to work longer and for less.  Once again, the problems of past generations are kicked down the road to the next.

/yes, I am an economist


In my case, my employment since 2008 has been sporadic, and I feel the need to be easily mobile so I can "move to where the jobs are" ( to paraphrase Sam Kinison). I have chosen not to buy a house because of this.

From 1996-2008, I had solid, "permanent" employment. Today, I do not. I suspect there are many people just like me who are depressing the housing market...
 
2013-02-02 08:46:46 PM

Notabunny: "The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012." That's $300 per week.


The others are scary.  This one, though? Poor, but not impossibly so.

Maybe it's just because of where my retired relatives live (smaller town Plains).  But:

Couple 1: Smaller town in KS. Still a few years out of paying off a $45k house, but mortgage/tax/insurance is ~$450 a month.  Two SS checks of around $1000 each.
Widow 2: Smaller town KS. HUD-subsidized senior apartment ~$350 out of her ~$1000.
Couple 3: Paid off in SD. Tax/insurance ~$200 (but utilities are more)
Couple 4: HUD/town senior apartment in rural MN. Only $250 out of their combined $1500 SS checks (that granny almost never worked outside the home).

So, $700-$1000 per person per month in general expenses.  Not impossible. Easier with a partner or roommate.

Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.  Yes, you're screwed six ways if you have to go into longer-term care, but you're broke anyway.

Remember... literally millions of people in this country DO live on nothing but a Social Security check.  They may have pretty boring lifestyles. But, by and large, they aren't starving in the streets either.
 
2013-02-02 08:52:21 PM
My stepfather passed away at 76. He had a decent pension from his job and social security.  Pensions are largely a thing of the past for the rest of us.
 
2013-02-02 08:56:22 PM

Lawnchair: Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.


Medicare is 80% insurance.  You are responsible for 20% unless you carry a supplemental policy.  Medicare also has a monthly premium, deducted for Social Security.
 
2013-02-02 08:56:23 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


====================


When my kids were in high school, and they wanted to buy a new snowboard, iPod, etc. I would have the take out a 90 day note (of course I would have to cosign), then after about a month they would pay it off and I would cover the $5.00 or so in interest.I also got them gas credit cards that they had to pay off monthly.When they graduated high school they both had credit scores over 800 and still do.Now they are also maxing out their Roth IRA's and contributing 20% of their gross to a 403b or TSP.At the age of 24 and 26 they both have about $50,000 in their retirement accounts.They both have multiple credit cards now and tell me they have never carried a balance from month to month.


/If you want credit you have to use credit
 
2013-02-02 09:05:22 PM

Zoomaster: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

====================


When my kids were in high school, and they wanted to buy a new snowboard, iPod, etc. I would have the take out a 90 day note (of course I would have to cosign), then after about a month they would pay it off and I would cover the $5.00 or so in interest.I also got them gas credit cards that they had to pay off monthly.When they graduated high school they both had credit scores over 800 and still do.Now they are also maxing out their Roth IRA's and contributing 20% of their gross to a 403b or TSP.At the age of 24 and 26 they both have about $50,000 in their retirement accounts.They both have multiple credit cards now and tell me they have never carried a balance from month to month.


/If you want credit you have to use credit


I'm 29 now, but I had a similar treatment when I was a teenager.  My mom cosigned a credit card for me with a low limit (I think it was like $300 or $500).  The card was used for all gas on my car and for when I got things for the house (Once I could drive I'd get sent out with a grocery list).

Credit score over 800, had that same credit card since I was like 15.  The credit score really came in handy when I wanted to buy a house in 2009 after the housing market took a massive dump.
 
2013-02-02 09:12:45 PM

IlGreven: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

If experience even threatens to cut into profit margin, it's a liability that must be purged.  That's why these "experienced" guys are looking for jobs in the first place.


This has become especially true in nursing. Almost all the old nurses that would train the new ones have been let go, because they got paid a little more money and replaced by a nice collection of fresh out of community college nurses with no one to train them when they hit the floor.

Very comforting thought, but at least administrators got a big bonus for cutting staffing costs.
 
2013-02-02 09:15:10 PM

mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.


See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.
 
2013-02-02 09:21:18 PM

Lawnchair: Notabunny: "The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012." That's $300 per week.

The others are scary.  This one, though? Poor, but not impossibly so.

Maybe it's just because of where my retired relatives live (smaller town Plains).  But:

Couple 1: Smaller town in KS. Still a few years out of paying off a $45k house, but mortgage/tax/insurance is ~$450 a month.  Two SS checks of around $1000 each.
Widow 2: Smaller town KS. HUD-subsidized senior apartment ~$350 out of her ~$1000.
Couple 3: Paid off in SD. Tax/insurance ~$200 (but utilities are more)
Couple 4: HUD/town senior apartment in rural MN. Only $250 out of their combined $1500 SS checks (that granny almost never worked outside the home).

So, $700-$1000 per person per month in general expenses.  Not impossible. Easier with a partner or roommate.

Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.  Yes, you're screwed six ways if you have to go into longer-term care, but you're broke anyway.

Remember... literally millions of people in this country DO live on nothing but a Social Security check.  They may have pretty boring lifestyles. But, by and large, they aren't starving in the streets either.


I think a good strategy is to live and work in an expensive place your working years. The salaries will be higher to offset the higher cost of living, but your SS benefits will be higher. Then when you retire you move to some really cheap rural area with no jobs and dirt cheap property, then live large off of your SS checks.

Also, my wife and I aren't going to have kids, so our hail mary play is to spend our lives building up huge limits on our credit cards and not using them. That way, when we get to the end of our lives and need cash flow, we can just max out the cards and then die tens of thousands of dollars in debt. With no survivors, the banks can just go fark themselves.
 
2013-02-02 09:34:13 PM
HA-HA!...and I'm one them!
 
2013-02-02 09:52:59 PM

jst3p: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Many places are reluctant to hire old folks due to the increased burden on their healthcare plan that eventually results in higher premiums.


Not with Obamacare it doesn't!
 
2013-02-02 10:07:47 PM

jst3p:

Time and money heals a FICO score.

Thanks for the link. I'm just getting started with all this crap and that should make for some great reading.

HempHead:

Read

Added to Amazon. Thanks.

InmanRoshi:

Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.

Thanks. Need something else besides Ramsey. He's got some good advice but then the whole religion/politics comes into play then I start tuning out.

dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.

clowncar on fire: Talk to you lendi ...


Thank you for that very detailed answer. This thread has been great for knowing where to start. Enjoy your free month.
 
2013-02-02 10:21:19 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


Planet Money, Marketplace Money and Marketplace.
 
2013-02-02 10:34:23 PM

alwaysjaded: dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.


Go to a small community bank or credit union and sit down with a loan officer. Explain that you that you have a down payment, stable employment and made your rental payments, but have not used credit and ask what you need to do get a mortgage.

You'll probably need to bring 2 years worth of rental receipts, 2 years of tax returns and W-2s, 2 months of bank statements and investment statements and a month's worth of paystubs.
 
2013-02-02 10:46:58 PM

unlikely: What percentage of 45 year olds were retiring 20 years ago?


How could you retire at age 50 anyway? With a good 30 years left to live? Wouldn't you get bored?
 
2013-02-02 10:58:06 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Not always. These days some employers (IMO) are foregoing that max experience the p person for the position SHOULD have in favor of the "barely above minimum" requirements a younger person might have.
Why might they do this?
- medical and insurance costs, including children who might be covered under the employer's plan

- more flexible scheduling - no kids, no commitments, nothing. Work them to death because you can, and at any hours.

- lower salaries - someone with experience who's been in an industry for 10, 15, 20 years or more has already "paid their dues" and wants to be paid real money for that knowledge and experience. All some 20-something needs is enough to pay the rent with two other roommates and feed their beer, world of warcraft and cellphone habits. They're not going to be paying a mortgage or putting kids through college.

- fear of competition - the person doing the hiring may only be in their 30's, while the potential applicant might be 10 or 20 years older and with more experience. If they are hired they will probably rise in the ranks more quickly due to having "been there, done that", and the 30 year old might think their job would be jeopardized by this older person.

-other really stupid reasons only they can think of.
 
2013-02-02 10:59:11 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?


Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.
 
2013-02-02 10:59:54 PM
Mr. Eugenides:

Planet Money, Marketplace Money and Marketplace.

Aaaannndd added. Thank you.

dustman81:

Go to a small community bank or credit union and sit down with a loan officer. Explain that you that you have a down payment, stable employment and made your rental payments, but have not used credit and ask what you need to do get a mortgage.

You'll probably need to bring 2 years worth of rental receipts, 2 years of tax returns and W-2s, 2 months of bank statements and investment statements and a month's worth of paystubs.


I actually did try to open an account with a credit union but the ones I talked to only allowed direct deposit and my company doesn't do that cause technically we're contractors. I'm a small hydraulic crane operator at the refineries. I've been with this company for 6 years but it causes some complications. I wound up opening an account with Chase simply cause it was more convenient and my family banks with them and have had no problems. Hopefully I can try again with the CU's when I get back to Houston. But I'm scheduled to go to Martinez CA, Anacortes WA and Kansas (currently in Corpus Christie) next so who the hell knows when I'll get a chance. But thanks for your input.
 
2013-02-02 11:01:08 PM

Krieghund: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?

Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.


Heh. Got beat on one. Will add Motley Fool. Thanks.
 
2013-02-02 11:02:05 PM
I'm just going to point my finger and laugh at all the people that actually thought the article was about people retiring when they were between 45 and 60.

It's about people currently between 45 and 60 and when they plan to retire.
 
2013-02-02 11:17:00 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Welcome to my world. My retirement plans went down the tubes, so I expect to be working well into my retirement years. And, I'm actually OK with that, because I've seen my competition, and I'm pretty much unconcerned.
 
2013-02-02 11:19:44 PM

rewind2846: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Not always. These days some employers (IMO) are foregoing that max experience the p person for the position SHOULD have in favor of the "barely above minimum" requirements a younger person might have.
Why might they do this?
- medical and insurance costs, including children who might be covered under the employer's plan

- more flexible scheduling - no kids, no commitments, nothing. Work them to death because you can, and at any hours.

- lower salaries - someone with experience who's been in an industry for 10, 15, 20 years or more has already "paid their dues" and wants to be paid real money for that knowledge and experience. All some 20-something needs is enough to pay the rent with two other roommates and feed their beer, world of warcraft and cellphone habits. They're not going to be paying a mortgage or putting kids through college.

- fear of competition - the person doing the hiring may only be in their 30's, while the potential applicant might be 10 or 20 years older and with more experience. If they are hired they will probably rise in the ranks more quickly due to having "been there, done that", and the 30 year old might think their job would be jeopardized by this older person.

-other really stupid reasons only they can think of.


Sounds like the makings of a great age discrimination lawsuit. These practices probably exist out there, but hiring managers can't be overt about it because they open themselves up to hungry lawyers raping them in court. Small companies might be able to pull a lot of that crap, but larger companies are pretty strict with their hiring policies because they don't want to be open to the threat of a lawsuit.
 
2013-02-02 11:32:59 PM

Linux_Yes: Pope Larry II: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

I started at 25. I have a set amount automatically transfered each month. It has worked well for me so far. I should be able to retire nicely, thanks to this and my company's pension plan.

till the bottom drops out and bread costs 25 bucks/loaf.


And 'Till the pension gets looted, like they always seem to.

I started when I was 6, I stopped when I was 18, I wasn't able to start again until 26, and had to stop again 2 years later.  I'm 30 and might be able to start again 5 years from now IF I don't get wiped out by another major accident, layoff in the family, or similar very-likely-to-occur hammer of hateful reality in an economy that is perpetually "bad" enough that it can be used as an excuse to not give anyone raises.

Mad_Radhu: Sounds like the makings of a great age discrimination lawsuit. These practices probably exist out there, but hiring managers can't be overt about it because they open themselves up to hungry lawyers raping them in court. Small companies might be able to pull a lot of that crap, but larger companies are pretty strict with their hiring policies because they don't want to be open to the threat of a lawsuit.


Are you  farking kidding?  Right-to-work legislation buddy, they can fire your ass for any god-damn thing and you ain't winnin' that lawsuit unless you ARE the lawyer, and a damn good one.  It's already in too many states and the Neofeudalists lobby every day to get it passed in the rest.
 
2013-02-02 11:38:17 PM

Frozboz: mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.

See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.


You transition into management, which is harder every year as the management becomes less of a job and more of a social caste.  You sink roots into some massive code written in some ancient language that no one else knows so that you're "the only guy who understands the payroll system."  Or you become the bitter old guy working tech support and bouncing from job to job, no family or kids or prospects and die (still fairly early) of a heart attack or suicide.
 
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