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(Think Progress)   62% of workers 45-60 will continue to compete with you for jobs because they can no longer afford to retire   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 179
    More: Obvious, Conference Board  
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1337 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Feb 2013 at 4:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-02 01:55:29 PM
Can you regulate greed? Is that possible?
 
2013-02-02 03:19:33 PM
It's not a competition. Experience will always win.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-02-02 03:19:47 PM
Quick, someone whine about "boomers"!
 
2013-02-02 03:23:01 PM
I was going to retire at 56. Two recessions in the last decade and four years without a pay raise have changed my tune. At least I have a job.

Besides, somebody's has to pay grandma's social security.
 
2013-02-02 03:58:47 PM
To be honest. Youts are not that smart.

At my ad agency, we go through them like a cord of wood.
 
2013-02-02 04:01:14 PM
What percentage of 45 year olds were retiring 20 years ago?
 
2013-02-02 04:15:13 PM
*sigh* Well, that sucks for me.
 
2013-02-02 04:31:56 PM
Die at your station, and thank the Job Creators for giving you the opportunity to do so.
 
2013-02-02 04:34:29 PM
When were 45-60 year-olds retiring in the first place?
 
2013-02-02 04:35:55 PM
I thought we're supposed to work til we're 70 now right?  Isn't that what Romney and supporters were saying during the election?  The SS age is needs to be raised is all the rage.  I mean since we live to be 72 now, we should be cool with 2 years..
 
2013-02-02 04:37:01 PM
That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.
 
2013-02-02 04:37:23 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Not necessarily. Experience wins when it *really matters*. But the vast majority of jobs can be done competently by any moderately intelligent adult if they get a little bit of training. Which means most businesses go for the cheapest employee. And that means the youngest, and least experienced.
 
2013-02-02 04:38:52 PM
Damn geezers takin' our jerbs!
 
2013-02-02 04:39:15 PM

alwaysjaded: Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


Anybody who payed attention in HS Home Ec/Finance class.
 
2013-02-02 04:40:14 PM
I read that today a new GM employee starts at $14/hr, which, when adjusted for inflation, is .03 less than Henry Ford paid in the 19teens before he instituted his $5/day plan.

So while dad and grandpa can't retire, it's ok because it's not like you're going to get a job that pays enough for you to move out, anyway.
 
2013-02-02 04:40:39 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.


It's actually a bit late. Start now. Just open an IRA and start depositing money routinely. If you can have your employer send a fixed amount or % automatically (via a split direct deposit if you use that) even better. Traditional IRA's = tax deduction now, pay taxes on earnings when you take them. Roth IRA = pay taxes now, no taxes when you take it later. I went with traditional since I figure tax rates will be lower for me when I retire and have no income.
 
2013-02-02 04:45:21 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


If experience even threatens to cut into profit margin, it's a liability that must be purged.  That's why these "experienced" guys are looking for jobs in the first place.
 
2013-02-02 04:46:42 PM
a) consumer-driven culture: most people are too stupid to plan for retirement accordingly, as they need the iPhone 5, iPad2, or 65" LED TV because the previous model doesn't have the feature they want
b) many people are still screwed by the housing bubble
c) housing prices will continue to stagnate as boomers try to "cash out" on the massive houses they purchased but have a reduced demand for such housing
d) recessions delay retirements
e) medical technology means longer lifespans, lower infant mortality rate for those with crippling birth defects, illness, etc. leading to higher medical costs
f) longer lifespans mean medical expenses skyrocket, high cost of living
g) higher costs of living mean less consumable income (and conspicuous consumption will have to drop)
h) overly generous benefits/pensions and poor planning to pay for them, particularly of state/local government unfunded liabilities, will weigh heavily upon he economy in the future
i) excessive executive compensation

Result: job market changes, everyone will have to work longer and for less.  Once again, the problems of past generations are kicked down the road to the next.

/yes, I am an economist
 
2013-02-02 04:49:13 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


Read the Intelligent Asset Allocator.  Have your money deposited directly from your check into saving so you don't spend it.

Don't be one of those guys with $3k in stocks thinking they are smarter than all the supercomputers and insider information on Wall Street.

Note that the techniques in Intelligent Asset Allocator will probably not work as well nowadays because the global economy is more intertwined, so it is harder to make independent bets.
 
2013-02-02 04:52:15 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


Easy way to build credit: get credit card, always pay off card every month.  I had a FICO score around 810 as a result of that when I bought my house.  I simply don't spend cash, and keep track of what I'm spending on my card.  Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.  (Also note: FHA loans require PMI and are subsequently rarely worth getting unless you don't have much of a down payment).  I also recommend the IRA/401k/403b route someone suggested upthread.  Even if it's only $20 a paycheck, get used to putting money away and gradually increase it as you can.
 
2013-02-02 04:55:42 PM

IlGreven: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

If experience even threatens to cut into profit margin, it's a liability that must be purged.  That's why these "experienced" guys are looking for jobs in the first place.


As an Experienced American, I command a higher salary because I make my employer a metric assload of money more than half a dozen rookies, and at a rate the rookies can't even imagine is possible. I identify and correct problems before the rookies even know they exist. I recognize new opportunities and exploit them for my employer's benefit while the rookies are still trying to remember where the employee break room is. Hiring an Experienced American is an investment in your company's future.
 
2013-02-02 04:57:07 PM

itsdan: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.

It's actually a bit late. Start now. Just open an IRA and start depositing money routinely. If you can have your employer send a fixed amount or % automatically (via a split direct deposit if you use that) even better. Traditional IRA's = tax deduction now, pay taxes on earnings when you take them. Roth IRA = pay taxes now, no taxes when you take it later. I went with traditional since I figure tax rates will be lower for me when I retire and have no income.


Luckily, I started my 401k in 2007 so the money I put in went really far thanks to the market shiatting the bed right when I was putting money in, but I feel even that was a little to late since I was 33 at the time. Luckily, my family ages pretty well, so I can probably work into my 70s if I need to. For example, my grandfather "retired" at 65 by dropping down to working just one job and kept his other well into his 70s.

I tried to convince my younger brother he needed to start putting back for retirement ASAP, though, since he has been in the USAF and basically has all his living expenses covered. Around 2008 or so I was yelling him he needed to get an IRA and start investing his extra cash because it was a blue light speak on blue chips back then.
 
2013-02-02 04:58:10 PM

realmolo: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Not necessarily. Experience wins when it *really matters*. But the vast majority of jobs can be done competently by any moderately intelligent adult if they get a little bit of training. Which means most businesses go for the cheapest employee. And that means the youngest, and least experienced.


I Laughed OL'd at your dream world.

/has a job that takes a little bit more of training.

//doesn't check facebook every five minutes like most tweeners do.

///doesn't have a facebook account.

////will be gainfully employed for as long as I want.

////\/Cheers!
 
2013-02-02 05:00:54 PM

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: realmolo: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Not necessarily. Experience wins when it *really matters*. But the vast majority of jobs can be done competently by any moderately intelligent adult if they get a little bit of training. Which means most businesses go for the cheapest employee. And that means the youngest, and least experienced.

I Laughed OL'd at your dream world.


Experience matters, but too much experience (re: being too old, basically) is as bad for your job market prospects as having no experience.
 
2013-02-02 05:06:10 PM

Droog8912: Result: job market changes, everyone will have to work longer and for less. Once again, the problems of past generations are kicked down the road to the next.


you left out 30 years of stagnant wages for most people. If wages grew up between 1980 and today like they did between 1947 and 1980 people would have a lot easier time saving and also government at all levels wouldn't be having revenue issues. Also the economy would be a good deal bigger.
 
2013-02-02 05:08:54 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


I started at 25. I have a set amount automatically transfered each month. It has worked well for me so far. I should be able to retire nicely, thanks to this and my company's pension plan.
 
2013-02-02 05:15:39 PM
When were 45-60 year-olds retiring in the first place?

THIS !

There's something seriously wrong when people who are in the prime of their working life are retiring instead of working.
 
2013-02-02 05:17:46 PM
Am I the only person who has no plans to ever retire?
 
2013-02-02 05:20:42 PM

alwaysjaded: I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.


Ha!

Never to early, but at 32 it might be too late!

I'm 29 and I've been maxing my Roth IRA every year since I was 21.

I've been hoping that whole "fiscal cliff" thing would temporarily tank the market again so I could make my 2012 contribution really count, but it looks like that isn't happening.

AlwaysRightBoy: To be honest. Youts are not that smart.


Said the man who can neither spell nor make complete sentences?
 
2013-02-02 05:26:31 PM

ShawnDoc: alwaysjaded: Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Anybody who payed attention in HS Home Ec/Finance class.


How about spelling? Anybody pay attention in that class? farking douchebag.
 
2013-02-02 05:28:06 PM

Sid_6.7: Said the man who can neither spell nor make complete sentences?


You're a dumbass.

blogs.villagevoice.com
 
2013-02-02 05:31:26 PM

Droog8912: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Easy way to build credit: get credit card, always pay off card every month.  I had a FICO score around 810 as a result of that when I bought my house.  I simply don't spend cash, and keep track of what I'm spending on my card.  Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.  (Also note: FHA loans require PMI and are subsequently rarely worth getting unless you don't have much of a down payment).  I also recommend the IRA/401k/403b route someone suggested upthread.  Even if it's only $20 a paycheck, get used to putting money away and gradually increase it as you can.


This.
 
2013-02-02 05:32:09 PM
Most youts are pretty dumb. Experience is everything. It takes at least a decade to become an expert at something, I read once. In fact, we don't hire anyone under 30 at my workplace. Well, except for the menial labor positions like toilet-cleaner or jizz-mopper. And in that case we use a temp agency for that yummy cheap payroll. Less bennies for the youts, more bennies for me :)
 
2013-02-02 05:34:18 PM
Experience only matters in jobs not protected by corrupt government unions.

I've never met a 65 year old teacher that is worth their salt.
 
2013-02-02 05:34:38 PM

ajgeek: Can you regulate greed? Is that possible?




Sure, just as soon as we also regulate whiny douchebags living in moms basement who think society owes them something.
 
2013-02-02 05:35:36 PM

johne3819: I thought we're supposed to work til we're 70 now right?  Isn't that what Romney and supporters were saying during the election?  The SS age is needs to be raised is all the rage.  I mean since we live to be 72 now, we should be cool with 2 years..


Its not true though. The mode and median life expectancy haven't changed much, just the average. The top 20% are living much longer, the bottom 80% haven't changed much at all. So those who actually need Social Security, nothing has changed in their life expectancy.

www.ssa.gov
 
2013-02-02 05:40:40 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Many places are reluctant to hire old folks due to the increased burden on their healthcare plan that eventually results in higher premiums.
 
2013-02-02 05:43:10 PM
45-62

Isn't that the cohort which is responsible for running the whole shebang?

You do the youth thing. Discover yourself in your 20's. Hone your skills through your 30's. Step up to the decision making in your 40's. Senior management in 50's. Emeritus in your 60's. Retire, and know your turned things over in good shape. Early retirement is irresponsible.
 
2013-02-02 05:48:59 PM

johne3819: I thought we're supposed to work til we're 70 now right?  Isn't that what Romney and supporters were saying during the election?  The SS age is needs to be raised is all the rage.  I mean since we live to be 72 now, we should be cool with 2 years..


Just FYI, SS retirement age HAS ALREADY been raised, back in the 80's. But nah, really, they should raise it again, because Romney pays way too much in taxes already.
 
2013-02-02 05:49:41 PM

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: realmolo: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Not necessarily. Experience wins when it *really matters*. But the vast majority of jobs can be done competently by any moderately intelligent adult if they get a little bit of training. Which means most businesses go for the cheapest employee. And that means the youngest, and least experienced.

I Laughed OL'd at your dream world.


If the part in bold weren't true elementary school teachers wouldn't need a union.
 
2013-02-02 05:51:41 PM

AlwaysRightBoy: To be honest. Youts are not that smart.

At my ad agency, we go through them like a cord of wood.


You don't strike me as particularly bright, yourself.
 
2013-02-02 05:52:55 PM

itsdan: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.

It's actually a bit late. Start now. Just open an IRA and start depositing money routinely. If you can have your employer send a fixed amount or % automatically (via a split direct deposit if you use that) even better. Traditional IRA's = tax deduction now, pay taxes on earnings when you take them. Roth IRA = pay taxes now, no taxes when you take it later. I went with traditional since I figure tax rates will be lower for me when I retire and have no income.


Oops. Spent my 20's screwing up so yea, I might be starting really late. First time I've ever had money to play with so I'm trying to do it right. Will look into IRA since I'm a contractor. Thanks.

And LiquidTester, made a note of that book and will read it. Thanks.
 
2013-02-02 05:58:26 PM

Droog8912: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Easy way to build credit: get credit card, always pay off card every month.  I had a FICO score around 810 as a result of that when I bought my house.  I simply don't spend cash, and keep track of what I'm spending on my card.  Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.  (Also note: FHA loans require PMI and are subsequently rarely worth getting unless you don't have much of a down payment).  I also recommend the IRA/401k/403b route someone suggested upthread.  Even if it's only $20 a paycheck, get used to putting money away and gradually increase it as you can.


I'm close to having 12k for a down payment for a 115k house (in Houston so good housing is cheap). Started a credit card just like you mentioned through my bank, I just don't know how long it will take to repair my score. Really want to stop renting but don't wanna rush. I need to learn more about IRA's. Thanks for your input.
 
2013-02-02 06:02:23 PM

alwaysjaded: Droog8912: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Easy way to build credit: get credit card, always pay off card every month.  I had a FICO score around 810 as a result of that when I bought my house.  I simply don't spend cash, and keep track of what I'm spending on my card.  Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.  (Also note: FHA loans require PMI and are subsequently rarely worth getting unless you don't have much of a down payment).  I also recommend the IRA/401k/403b route someone suggested upthread.  Even if it's only $20 a paycheck, get used to putting money away and gradually increase it as you can.

I'm close to having 12k for a down payment for a 115k house (in Houston so good housing is cheap). Started a credit card just like you mentioned through my bank, I just don't know how long it will take to repair my score. Really want to stop renting but don't wanna rush. I need to learn more about IRA's. Thanks for your input.


I went from a 418 FICO to close to a 700 in about 4 years. It takes time, but there are somethings you can do. If you are diligent you can actually get some negative items removed from your report (legitimately). I spent a LOT of time reading this forum http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Rebuilding-Your-Credit/bd-p/rebuildin g credit  . There are some very bright and helpful people there that know the system.

Time and money heals a FICO score.
 
2013-02-02 06:02:28 PM

shanteyman: When were 45-60 year-olds retiring in the first place?

THIS !

There's something seriously wrong when people who are in the prime of their working life are retiring instead of working.


Seconded.
 
2013-02-02 06:04:27 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.
 
2013-02-02 06:05:14 PM

SineSwiper: shanteyman: When were 45-60 year-olds retiring in the first place?

THIS !

There's something seriously wrong when people who are in the prime of their working life are retiring instead of working.

Seconded.


Sounds like a good plan to me, I hope to be retired before 60.
 
2013-02-02 06:05:34 PM
Health Care is a big part of this.   There may be plenty of workers in their late 50's early 60's who might consider starting to live off their savings only they can't possibly afford the health insurance premiums.
 
2013-02-02 06:08:19 PM

InmanRoshi: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.


Dave Ramsey is pretty good too if you can tune out the politics and religious noise. He is a bit of an extremist on some financial issues but if someone didn't have financial sense and needed someone else to tell them what to do with their money a person could do worse than follow his advice.
 
2013-02-02 06:09:29 PM
Learning to live with less, was always part of the plan, wasn't it?  Less growth, less consumption, less people via less babies; less means less.  Let the old farts grind it out.  Ride a bike, learn to surf, or find a comfy seat at a pub.  Enjoy your your youth through your 30's, something will open up around your 40th birthday.

Unless you're a genius, the world won't have much use for you.
 
2013-02-02 06:12:18 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


If you've paid cash for everything and have never used credit, you have a zero credit score which puts you in a great position to get a mortgage. Find a bank that does manual underwriting. Show them that you can make a house payment. Present rental receipts (or canceled checks from your landlord) and utility bills. That combined with your down payment (20% minimum) and steady employment, any decent bank should give you a mortgage. Try small community banks or credit unions, not the massive megabanks.

Don't get a credit card just to build a credit score. Actually, don't get a credit card at all.
 
2013-02-02 06:13:24 PM
they call that thar' Freedom!!


....as the wealthiest 2% continue laughing all the way to the bank and continue to enjoy the widening gap between the rich and everyone else in America(tm)
 
2013-02-02 06:17:46 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


If your "handy" with home improvement projects, it will be a plus as you can buy the most economical home in any neighborhood and not get buried in repair costs.  Good economy or bad, my last four homes resulted in positive returns due to my sweat equity (improvements made without paying someone else to do them).  Take advantage of Fannie May homes, repo's, etc.  Not having any debt by 32 is good if you've paid your debt off, you're a crapshoot for financial institutesif you have no history.  Having longetivity in your current job and a verifiable history of paying off your utilities on time is thing in your favor.  Having little to no debt verifies that you live within your means.  DO NOT request a credit report more than necessary as each request will lower your rating a little bit- even if you are just verifying that your name isn't on a post box in Barbados or verifying that it had since been removed (personal expirience). Regarding loans- there is mixed data out there as to whether purchasing an item on credit such as a motorbike or electronics really establishes credit history or not.  Showing a hhistory of prompt payments probably won't hurt, but having car payments while applying for a home loan does not help.  Home loans nowadays seem to be based on a percentage of your income.  If 50% of your wages are tied up in rent and utilities, you may find yourself either without a loan or paying a higher percentage in interest charges.  Talk to you lending instute and determine what you can afford- rule of thumb on a Fannie Mae or a fixer upper is to set aside 15% (below your max eligibility)for repairs.  Better yet- try to find a home 10-15% below the highest amount you are eligible for.  They say you can afford 100k- look for a home in the 85-90k region.  Unexpected costs inevitably will eat up the rest.  Also always have a plan B in the event you lose you job.  Without family, you could probably eek by on a minimum waged job in a 90K home long enough to keep up payments while you sell it or get a roomie to help cover the mortgage- or until you settle into your next career.

You can never get started too early on a retirement account.  If going through work (401/403 plans), try to find one that offers you flexibility so that you can increase or decrease your contributions as life changes occur.  With some luck, your employer will contribute a percentage of your wages into the account annually as well.

As changes (increases) occur in your wages, do not adjust your budget accordingly, increase your savings and contributions and try to remain in your current means.  If you're single now- this is your time to shine.  Without the obligations of family, you should set your savings goals much higher and spend only what you need on yourself.  Once family is in the picture, you may not see another opportunity present itself until the kids clear college.  Establish yourself a list of desires- separate them into wants and needs.  develope a budget focusing on the needs and visit the want list only ocaisionally when a savings milestone or goal is reached.  Learn to purchase things that are of quality and last- avoid the trendy unless absolutely necessary or when rewarding yourself.

Don't be afraid to talk to a real fiinancial planner rather than advice on the net.  Best to find one through family or close contacts.  Research, research, research...
 
2013-02-02 06:19:21 PM
Coming up to 30 years in the workforce, planning to retire in another 5 years at 55. Fixed pension of around 50 to 60% of final salary (depending on market).
 
2013-02-02 06:20:17 PM

IlGreven: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

If experience even threatens to cut into profit margin, it's a liability that must be purged.  That's why these "experienced" guys are looking for jobs in the first place.


I save my employer millions a year by not making expensive rookie mistakes. No job is safe these days but mine is reasonably secure. But I wont be looking for a job for very long no matter what happens. If you are under 30 you are most likely not real competition for me.

jst3p: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Many places are reluctant to hire old folks due to the increased burden on their healthcare plan that eventually results in higher premiums.


That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.
 
2013-02-02 06:20:50 PM

Sid_6.7: alwaysjaded: I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.

Ha!

Never to early, but at 32 it might be too late!

I'm 29 and I've been maxing my Roth IRA every year since I was 21.

I've been hoping that whole "fiscal cliff" thing would temporarily tank the market again so I could make my 2012 contribution really count, but it looks like that isn't happening.

AlwaysRightBoy: To be honest. Youts are not that smart.

Said the man who can neither spell nor make complete sentences?


Sid, I've been paying the max into my 401k since I was 21, am now 51 and have no plans for retirement.

/when I have a heart attack on the office floor.... my wife will be all smiles
 
2013-02-02 06:24:15 PM

MindStalker: johne3819: I thought we're supposed to work til we're 70 now right?  Isn't that what Romney and supporters were saying during the election?  The SS age is needs to be raised is all the rage.  I mean since we live to be 72 now, we should be cool with 2 years..

Its not true though. The mode and median life expectancy haven't changed much, just the average. The top 20% are living much longer, the bottom 80% haven't changed much at all. So those who actually need Social Security, nothing has changed in their life expectancy.

[www.ssa.gov image 453x290]


I don't know where you got that graph, but it clearly shows that death rates for people in the bottom half of the income distribution have dropped ~30% at age 65, over 20% at 70, etc. So while the wealthier half are undeniably living longer than the poorer half, the effect is significant across both age groups. The CDC's figures from 2009 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2011/022.pdf) show that a person who makes it to 65 can, on average, expect to live 19 more years. That's up 5 from 1950, the year the chart starts. That's going to have an effect on people's retirements, and its going to change the math for programs like social security. I don't think anyone  wants everyone to have to work 5 years longer, but I don't see the alternative.
 
2013-02-02 06:25:08 PM

MFAWG: Die at your station, and thank the Job Creators for giving you the opportunity to do so.



here ye' here ye'!

and also thank god the job creaters had the wisdom to take over our government and call it 'democracy'.

AND the foresight to ship 'their' money to overseas tax shelters and our jobs too!!
 
2013-02-02 06:25:42 PM

sammyk: That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.


Sure it is illegal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It is pretty difficult to prove.
 
2013-02-02 06:25:58 PM

sammyk: It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.


Assuming you can prove that age was the basis of discrimination in court.  Things get nebulous and justifications get creative and typically the corporation the resources to litigiously subdue the individual.
 
2013-02-02 06:26:23 PM

clowncar on fire: DO NOT request a credit report more than necessary as each request will lower your rating a little bit- even if you are just verifying that your name isn't on a post box in Barbados or verifying that it had since been removed (personal expirience).


It doesn't ding your credit score when you request to see it. It does get dinged when a creditor requests to see it.
 
2013-02-02 06:27:26 PM

Pope Larry II: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

I started at 25. I have a set amount automatically transfered each month. It has worked well for me so far. I should be able to retire nicely, thanks to this and my company's pension plan.


till the bottom drops out and bread costs 25 bucks/loaf.
 
2013-02-02 06:30:38 PM

jack21221: Am I the only person who has no plans to ever retire?



retiring is for lightweights.   they all think they're going to play golf for 8 hours a day until they find out that retirement has its own challenges.
life isn't something you sit and watch. you have to participate.

the key is to continue working but at what YOU want to do, not some Turd boss or Turd stockholder.
 
2013-02-02 06:31:15 PM

Biological Ali: Damn geezers takin' our jerbs!


Get off my Lawn!!!!
 
2013-02-02 06:31:28 PM

James F. Campbell: AlwaysRightBoy: To be honest. Youts are not that smart.

At my ad agency, we go through them like a cord of wood.

You don't strike me as particularly bright, yourself.


People, when on the internet who feel the need to berate people are rather dull to me.
 
2013-02-02 06:31:41 PM

itsdan: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.

It's actually a bit late. Start now. Just open an IRA and start depositing money routinely. If you can have your employer send a fixed amount or % automatically (via a split direct deposit if you use that) even better. Traditional IRA's = tax deduction now, pay taxes on earnings when you take them. Roth IRA = pay taxes now, no taxes when you take it later. I went with traditional since I figure tax rates will be lower for me when I retire and have no income.


This. I got my first retirement account when I got my first real job, even though the pay sucked. Compound interest is a powerful force, but it needs time to do its magic.

Also, get a credit card. You don't have to carry any debt, but the mortgage market it tight now and you need credit history.
 
2013-02-02 06:32:42 PM

Linux_Yes: jack21221: Am I the only person who has no plans to ever retire?


retiring is for lightweights.   they all think they're going to play golf for 8 hours a day until they find out that retirement has its own challenges.
life isn't something you sit and watch. you have to participate.

the key is to continue working but at what YOU want to do, not some Turd boss or Turd stockholder.


Or retire and donate your time to a non-profit.
 
2013-02-02 06:33:07 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.



NOW you know who has the Real Power in America: your friendly Banker.
 
2013-02-02 06:35:12 PM

Notabunny: IlGreven: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

If experience even threatens to cut into profit margin, it's a liability that must be purged.  That's why these "experienced" guys are looking for jobs in the first place.

As an Experienced American, I command a higher salary because I make my employer a metric assload of money more than half a dozen rookies, and at a rate the rookies can't even imagine is possible. I identify and correct problems before the rookies even know they exist. I recognize new opportunities and exploit them for my employer's benefit while the rookies are still trying to remember where the employee break room is. Hiring an Experienced American is an investment in your company's future.


just make sure you don't become so 'experienced' that you find yourself sticking your tongue up your bosses ass more and more with time.

then you become a willing slave.
 
2013-02-02 06:35:58 PM

Sid_6.7: alwaysjaded: I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.

Ha!

Never to early, but at 32 it might be too late!

I'm 29 and I've been maxing my Roth IRA every year since I was 21.

I've been hoping that whole "fiscal cliff" thing would temporarily tank the market again so I could make my 2012 contribution really count, but it looks like that isn't happening.

AlwaysRightBoy: To be honest. Youts are not that smart.

Said the man who can neither spell nor make complete sentences?


api.ning.com
 
2013-02-02 06:40:48 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


Jeez, and I thought I was getting a late start in my mid-20s.  I've been contributing to my 401K now for almost 7 years and refuse to touch a dime of it...  I don't make that much money, but I put money into it every month and have emergency funds in case something happens.  I feel better about my situation all of a sudden.
 
2013-02-02 06:42:42 PM

AlwaysRightBoy: James F. Campbell: AlwaysRightBoy: To be honest. Youts are not that smart.

At my ad agency, we go through them like a cord of wood.

You don't strike me as particularly bright, yourself.

People, when on the internet who feel the need to berate people are rather dull to me.


I wonder if you're intelligent enough to realize the massive hypocrisy in you saying this. I'm going to go with no.

Also, holy Christing peanut butter crackers. Where the fark did you learn English? Helen Keller's School for the Special?
 
2013-02-02 06:42:45 PM

dustman81: clowncar on fire: DO NOT request a credit report more than necessary as each request will lower your rating a little bit- even if you are just verifying that your name isn't on a post box in Barbados or verifying that it had since been removed (personal expirience).

It doesn't ding your credit score when you request to see it. It does get dinged when a creditor requests to see it.


I stand corrected then.  I was in the process of purchasing a house at the time I discovered that I had a post office box in the South Seas, so I was in there later on verifying that I had it removed correctly.  Received a letter shortly after notifying me of the shift of credit rating due to "unusual activity".  I checked on this and the unusual activity was given as frequent visits.
 
2013-02-02 06:42:58 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


In tech, anyway, age will always lose.
 
2013-02-02 06:43:20 PM

johne3819: I thought we're supposed to work til we're 70 now right?  Isn't that what Romney and supporters were saying during the election?  The SS age is needs to be raised is all the rage.  I mean since we live to be 72 now, we should be cool with 2 years..



U.S. Life expectancy at Birth (average data from 2005 to 2010)

Males: 75.35 years
Females: 80.51

WHO 2011 estimate:
75.9 and 80.5
 
2013-02-02 06:44:51 PM

Droog8912: a) consumer-driven culture: most people are too stupid to plan for retirement accordingly, as they need the iPhone 5, iPad2, or 65" LED TV because the previous model doesn't have the feature they want
b) many people are still screwed by the housing bubble
c) housing prices will continue to stagnate as boomers try to "cash out" on the massive houses they purchased but have a reduced demand for such housing
d) recessions delay retirements
e) medical technology means longer lifespans, lower infant mortality rate for those with crippling birth defects, illness, etc. leading to higher medical costs
f) longer lifespans mean medical expenses skyrocket, high cost of living
g) higher costs of living mean less consumable income (and conspicuous consumption will have to drop)
h) overly generous benefits/pensions and poor planning to pay for them, particularly of state/local government unfunded liabilities, will weigh heavily upon he economy in the future
i) excessive executive compensation

Result: job market changes, everyone will have to work longer and for less.  Once again, the problems of past generations are kicked down the road to the next.

/yes, I am an economist


except the top 2%.  they're wealth contiues to grow and the wealth gap continues to widen.  who'da thunk!

i love Economist John Kenneth Galbraith's quote:

Under a Capitalist system man exploits man,
under a Communist one, its just the opposite.

cheers!
 
2013-02-02 06:45:40 PM

lilbjorn: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

In tech, anyway, age will always lose.


I'm in a tech field.  He who has the most expirience and collects the most training retains their job. I'm the "baby' at my site with 15 years.
 
2013-02-02 06:46:15 PM

lilbjorn: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

In tech, anyway, age will always lose.


in life, Age will always lose.   the only surety is death and, well, death.
 
2013-02-02 06:46:54 PM

shanteyman: When were 45-60 year-olds retiring in the first place?

THIS !

There's something seriously wrong when people who are in the prime of their working life are retiring instead of working.


If you have sufficient wherewithall it retire at 45, why keep a job?
 
2013-02-02 06:49:06 PM

clowncar on fire: lilbjorn: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

In tech, anyway, age will always lose.

I'm in a tech field.  He who has the most expirience and collects the most training retains their job. I'm the "baby' at my site with 15 years.


You definitely want to avoid middle management in any field at all costs- just ask the #2 rep of al qaeda if you have any doubts about where midmanagement is going to get you..
 
2013-02-02 06:49:07 PM

Droog8912: Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.


This is not true for many mortgage products. 80/10/10 loans are a good way to avoid PMI on a conventional loans. Banks will give you a HELOC for 10% down, and this is a nice line of credit you can pay down. However the rate on this 10% is higher, and can be variable.

I have seen fixed conventional loans recently as high as 95/5 with no PMI. Basically, you pay a slightly higher interest rate instead of PMI.
 
2013-02-02 06:49:17 PM
And I am one of those old bastiches that is going to keep right on working until I can afford to retire. Now, get off my lawn, ya young punks!
 
2013-02-02 06:51:56 PM
Of course, if you've figured out how to get paid to do something you love, you'll never want to retire no matter how much you have saved.
 
2013-02-02 06:53:57 PM

Harry_Seldon: Droog8912: Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.

This is not true for many mortgage products. 80/10/10 loans are a good way to avoid PMI on a conventional loans. Banks will give you a HELOC for 10% down, and this is a nice line of credit you can pay down. However the rate on this 10% is higher, and can be variable.

I have seen fixed conventional loans recently as high as 95/5 with no PMI. Basically, you pay a slightly higher interest rate instead of PMI.


Conventional loans will let you off the pmi hook at 20%, creative loans have you hooked for the entire duration of the loan which will cost you more in the long run.  Best bet is to have the 20% down or delay/downsize your plans until that 20% is paid off.
 
2013-02-02 06:55:09 PM

Notabunny: I read that today a new GM employee starts at $14/hr, which, when adjusted for inflation, is .03 less than Henry Ford paid in the 19teens before he instituted his $5/day plan.

So while dad and grandpa can't retire, it's ok because it's not like you're going to get a job that pays enough for you to move out, anyway.


Im supporting a family of 4 on less than $14/hr. Sure we get food stamps but thats it, no cash or housing assistance. It can be done, you just have to forget about things like eating out, several hundred channel TV, etc.
 
2013-02-02 06:57:18 PM

PapaChester: Experience only matters in jobs not protected by corrupt government unions.

I've never met a 65 year old teacher that is worth their salt.

 That's funny, your teachers all said you weren't worth your salt as a student.
 
2013-02-02 06:58:47 PM

Arctic Phoenix: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Jeez, and I thought I was getting a late start in my mid-20s.  I've been contributing to my 401K now for almost 7 years and refuse to touch a dime of it...  I don't make that much money, but I put money into it every month and have emergency funds in case something happens.  I feel better about my situation all of a sudden.



Just don't get married or have kids and you'll be fine.
 
2013-02-02 07:03:17 PM

ghare: Arctic Phoenix: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Jeez, and I thought I was getting a late start in my mid-20s.  I've been contributing to my 401K now for almost 7 years and refuse to touch a dime of it...  I don't make that much money, but I put money into it every month and have emergency funds in case something happens.  I feel better about my situation all of a sudden.


Just don't get married or have kids and you'll be fine.


A little late for that on both parts!  lol

But both of my kids will be grown by the time I'm in my early-mid 40s, so that will help.  And I've already told them their options for college:  Military or go to Europe where college is free/cheap.  Don't go into debt.
 
2013-02-02 07:08:28 PM

jst3p: sammyk: That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.

Sure it is illegal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It is pretty difficult to prove.


Again - if you are a small company, and don't hire a lot of people, you can discriminate against a few individuals and no one can prove it. But if you are a huge megacorp that hires many people on a regular basis, a pattern of consistent discrimination will emerge.
 
2013-02-02 07:08:51 PM

ghare: PapaChester: Experience only matters in jobs not protected by corrupt government unions.

I've never met a 65 year old teacher that is worth their salt.
 That's funny, your teachers all said you weren't worth your salt as a student.


Some of my most memorable teachers were beyond retirement age. The difference was that retirement had become an option and that their dedication to their profession had taken precedence over their retirement goals.
 
2013-02-02 07:12:21 PM
That people still deny that there is a problem with the distribution of wealth in this country is mind boggling.

The CEOs and heirs will be partying and playing golf while the rest of us will die on our feet at our jobs.
 
2013-02-02 07:21:05 PM

GhostFish: That people still deny that there is a problem with the distribution of wealth in this country is mind boggling.

The CEOs and heirs will be partying and playing golf while the rest of us will die on our feet at our jobs.


All hail the job creators, from whom all that is good and holy flows.
 
2013-02-02 07:22:39 PM

Arctic Phoenix: ghare: Arctic Phoenix: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

Jeez, and I thought I was getting a late start in my mid-20s.  I've been contributing to my 401K now for almost 7 years and refuse to touch a dime of it...  I don't make that much money, but I put money into it every month and have emergency funds in case something happens.  I feel better about my situation all of a sudden.


Just don't get married or have kids and you'll be fine.

A little late for that on both parts!  lol

But both of my kids will be grown by the time I'm in my early-mid 40s, so that will help.  And I've already told them their options for college:  Military or go to Europe where college is free/cheap.  Don't go into debt.


Don't forget the myriad of scholarship options including work study programs or working their way through college.  Some highschools offer co-op programs where the student enslaves themself at a prt time job during their senior year with a promise of working for two years for a sponsor in return for paid tuitition.  Military is the best way to go if all other options are off the table.  Just be sure to keep up those HS gpa's high and aim for high scores on the ASVAB as that will allow them to enter the military on their terms.  Free college in europe is not an option for non-europeans unless your kids hold dual citizenship.  At 18, they will have to decide on their citizenship- If they choose the euro option, they'll get the benefits of euro citizenship and enjoy cut rate euro opportunities in education.  The problem is that they have now become foreign citizenship and no longer will enjoy the privileges of being American.
 
2013-02-02 07:23:17 PM
I'll not retire in my life time, but that's cool considering how little I actually work today, by design.  I'll never have to tell my kid that I can't do X because I have to work and that is an awesome feeling.  Yeah, I can put up with this until I die.
 
2013-02-02 07:36:49 PM
Fark just congratulated me on my 29th birthday....
For retirement I have..... ah, -$62,000 dollars saved up.
Student loans are fun. The rest of you who actually have money to spare for an IRA have it too easy.
 
2013-02-02 07:39:13 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


I'd disagree.  When I hire, I look for aptitude over experience.

Someone with great aptitude but low experience will start off slow but rise far.  Someone with great experience but low aptitude will never be any better than the day they were hired.
 
2013-02-02 07:40:56 PM
I retired at age 39. Suck it haters.

/computers rule
 
2013-02-02 07:41:58 PM

jso2897: jst3p: sammyk: That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.

Sure it is illegal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It is pretty difficult to prove.

Again - if you are a small company, and don't hire a lot of people, you can discriminate against a few individuals and no one can prove it. But if you are a huge megacorp that hires many people on a regular basis, a pattern of consistent discrimination will emerge.


My megacorp likes older guys. Are you going to trust a multi-million dollar project or two every year to a guy straight out of school or the old guy that's done it for a long time? If you do not have 10+ years solid engineering experience you will never get an interview on my team.
 
2013-02-02 07:44:52 PM
45 to 60 is the age people typically retire?
 
2013-02-02 07:46:01 PM

Arctic Phoenix: But both of my kids will be grown by the time I'm in my early-mid 40s, so that will help. And I've already told them their options for college: Military or go to Europe where college is free/cheap. Don't go into debt.


I managed both undergraduate and grad school without assuming any debt.  My formula for success was to go to a public college with in-state tuition, get three different scholarships, pack roommates into the apartment like it was a clown car, and work as much as I could - plus I saved nearly everything from when I was working in high school.

Another plan you can do, which I didn't try myself, is to get an associate's degree with a community college that has a deal with your state university to transfer credits.  You get the first two years at highly discounted rates, and can still usually get a four year degree in about four years.
 
2013-02-02 07:46:45 PM

Sum Dum Gai: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

I'd disagree.  When I hire, I look for aptitude over experience.

Someone with great aptitude but low experience will start off slow but rise far.  Someone with great experience but low aptitude will never be any better than the day they were hired.


Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.
 
2013-02-02 07:48:12 PM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.




Read

ia700804.us.archive.org
 
2013-02-02 07:48:14 PM
62% of workers 45-60 will continue to compete with you for jobs

Not if Microsoft continues to release exotic and mystifying layout enhancements like the ribbon bar.
 
2013-02-02 07:49:26 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.
 
2013-02-02 07:51:50 PM

Sultan Of Herf: Im supporting a family of 4 on less than $14/hr. Sure we get food stamps but thats it,


When Republicans refer to leeches, they're talking about you.

/God forbid they encourage their buddies to pay their workers enough to not have to use food stamps.
 
2013-02-02 07:52:10 PM
It is interesting that conservatives point to people leaving the labor force as evidence of a bad Obama economy, but at the same time they point to old people continuing to work beyond retirement age as also evidence of a bad Obama economy. Apparently the only people struggling to find jobs are in the 25-39 age group.
 
2013-02-02 07:55:46 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Depends who's hiring. I've seen studies that have shown that many people will plateau after only a couple years and in some cases are less productive than someone learning new skills because they are simply trying harder.
 
2013-02-02 07:56:04 PM

sammyk: Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.


Oh, I think it's frighteningly common, at least from my perspective.  I work in software development, and I've seen plenty of people with 10 years experience that really are mediocre developers who will never improve.  Getting rid of a few of them was one of the best decisions I made - their replacements were fresh college grads, and the initial loss of experience was a challenge, but in the long run it actually didn't take as long as I feared for the new hires to reach and then surpass the abilities of the ones I let go.

The really terrible people don't seem to make it (except, it seems, as consultants), but I've seen too many mediocre individuals who were able to stick around long enough to build just enough experience that their managers feared letting them go.
 
2013-02-02 08:00:45 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Fark just congratulated me on my 29th birthday....
For retirement I have..... ah, -$62,000 dollars saved up.
Student loans are fun. The rest of you who actually have money to spare for an IRA have it too easy.


Ran up ~$4K in loans back in the 80's during my 3 years of college.  i owe it all to work study, two part time jobs while in school, working and saving all summer, used books, and keeping a cool head about spending.  I wanted to go partying, I literally collected beer cans around for campus for an hour and cashed them in my first year, or jumped other people's cars during the winter as lots were cleared and cars were towed at the owner's expense.  Being the chief investor into a neighbor's dormroom bar kept me in free alchohol for my last two years.  Frat parties can be a moocher's best friend when you arrive politely late as well.
 
2013-02-02 08:02:01 PM
 
2013-02-02 08:02:12 PM
fark my life... and theirs apparently.
 
2013-02-02 08:03:33 PM

Sum Dum Gai: sammyk: Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.

Oh, I think it's frighteningly common, at least from my perspective.  I work in software development, and I've seen plenty of people with 10 years experience that really are mediocre developers who will never improve.  Getting rid of a few of them was one of the best decisions I made - their replacements were fresh college grads, and the initial loss of experience was a challenge, but in the long run it actually didn't take as long as I feared for the new hires to reach and then surpass the abilities of the ones I let go.

The really terrible people don't seem to make it (except, it seems, as consultants), but I've seen too many mediocre individuals who were able to stick around long enough to build just enough experience that their managers feared letting them go.


Some tech fields are ever evolving and require continuous training to keep up with the technology- so regardless of being there for 2 years or ten years, everyday is a new day
 
2013-02-02 08:07:39 PM

mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.


Well of course. A 60 year old is counting down the days until retirement. The article is talking about people over 45.
 
2013-02-02 08:10:12 PM
Retired Jan 1st

Now my plan is to haunt FARK and dispense my wisdom to the masses.
 
2013-02-02 08:12:30 PM

clowncar on fire: Ran up ~$4K in loans back in the 80's during my 3 years of college. i owe it all to work study, two part time jobs while in school, working and saving all summer, used books, and keeping a cool head about spending. I wanted to go partying, I literally collected beer cans around for campus for an hour and cashed them in my first year, or jumped other people's cars during the winter as lots were cleared and cars were towed at the owner's expense. Being the chief investor into a neighbor's dormroom bar kept me in free alchohol for my last two years. Frat parties can be a moocher's best friend when you arrive politely late as well.


That was in the 80's. Times have changed.
I worked a full time job while in college, although it was still just food service crap. I technically borrowed $40K to get two degrees, which doesn't seem like a bad deal at today's prices, but then the recession happened and I spent 2 years unable to do much but make token payments and interest took care of the rest.
I didn't party, I wasn't a big spender, and I didn't even have a cell phone the first two years and then my mother bought me one so she could get ahold of me. I worked, I went to school. I had roomates. My last year there I had 5 roomates.
You can't scrimp and save and collect beer cans when a semester now costs as much as your entire 3 years did back then. Hell, my first two years I had a "full" scholarship. It paid tuition only. Not fees. Not room and board. Those two years still left me $8000 in the hole if I'm remembering right, even after the scholarships. I went for off-campus housing after that...
 
2013-02-02 08:13:00 PM

Droog8912: Easy way to build credit: get credit card, always pay off card every month.  I had a FICO score around 810 as a result of that when I bought my house.  I simply don't spend cash, and keep track of what I'm spending on my card.  Have at least a 20% down payment ready for your house so you don't have to pay for PMI.


LOL. Good luck with that in a place like the SF Bay area, where starter homes are going for >$500K and are selling for above asking. Or does everyone have $100K in cash just laying around?
 
2013-02-02 08:13:03 PM
This is another nail in the coffin of the Republican party.
 
2013-02-02 08:14:32 PM

Harry_Seldon: 45-62

Isn't that the cohort which is responsible for running the whole shebang?

You do the youth thing. Discover yourself in your 20's. Hone your skills through your 30's. Step up to the decision making in your 40's. Senior management in 50's. Emeritus in your 60's. Retire, and know your turned things over in good shape. Early retirement is irresponsible.


That was the whole classic Japanese 'salaryman' model.  Which somewhat worked through the 1960-70s when, due to a baby boom and lots of the older guys having been killed off in wars, there were twice as many 30-something "honing their skills" guys as 50-something "senior management" guys.

This fails pretty badly in demographic structures like today's Japan/Korea (and going that way in Italy, Germany, Greece, etc) where there's actually a lot more 50-somethings than 30-somethings for them to theoretically manage.  Through the early 90s, Japan (I go to them, since they're the first ones down this demographic track) kept a lot of the 50-60-somethings at their companies.  Working 60-70 hour weeks. Substantial numbers of them ended up doing just about jack-shiat but shuffling paper and getting paid.  Eventually, international competition made that untenable.  Now... they just don't hire 20-somethings.  Those 20-somethings now, to compound the problem, don't buy cars or houses any more, and can't afford to date, marry, or have kids.
 
2013-02-02 08:16:57 PM

Granny_Panties: I retired at age 39. Suck it haters.

/computers rule


Nobody retires at age 39 from "computers". They do it by lucking into being employee number 1 through 10 at the right start-up.
 
2013-02-02 08:17:23 PM

theknuckler_33: 45 to 60 is the age people typically retire?


No it is when people start targeting their approximate retirement date. When they face job loss, declining home values, borrowing from retirement savings, they take a look at their financial situation and think, "I'm going to have to work X more years than I planned.".
 
2013-02-02 08:19:47 PM

edmo: I was going to retire at 56.


But your dyslexia got in the way?
 
2013-02-02 08:21:19 PM

theknuckler_33: 45 to 60 is the age people typically retire?


Certainly not now and probably not back then, but the 30 years and a pension system used to be a lot more common than now.
 
2013-02-02 08:23:45 PM
my credit score is over 800 and i've yet to earn more than 30k per annum. i think the same people who calculate the pre-season ap football polls must be involved in calculating credit scores...

/and with my meager income and great credit, i'll be on track to retire at about 97
 
2013-02-02 08:25:01 PM

Sum Dum Gai: sammyk: Low aptitude is going to limit experience in a Darwinian way for any career. IMHO, if someone has been doing something for 10 years or more they are most likely competent at it or they would have washed out by then. Sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.

Oh, I think it's frighteningly common, at least from my perspective.  I work in software development, and I've seen plenty of people with 10 years experience that really are mediocre developers who will never improve.  Getting rid of a few of them was one of the best decisions I made - their replacements were fresh college grads, and the initial loss of experience was a challenge, but in the long run it actually didn't take as long as I feared for the new hires to reach and then surpass the abilities of the ones I let go.

The really terrible people don't seem to make it (except, it seems, as consultants), but I've seen too many mediocre individuals who were able to stick around long enough to build just enough experience that their managers feared letting them go.


I've found this to be true as well. The least productive employees tend to be the ones resting on their "experience" laurels. They sit around all day "being team lead" and sitting in meetings, but doing basically nothing productive because they don't have the aptitude or energy to crank out code. I work with senior programmers who haven't written a line of code in 2 years -- they're so experienced they're needed in meetings instead of behind a keyboard. Management is terrified of them leaving and wouldn't consider firing them, because they see software engineering as black magic that takes 10 years of secret, specialized knowledge to do right.
 
2013-02-02 08:28:28 PM

Harry_Seldon: This is not true for many mortgage products. 80/10/10 loans are a good way to avoid PMI on a conventional loans. Banks will give you a HELOC for 10% down, and this is a nice line of credit you can pay down. However the rate on this 10% is higher, and can be variable.

I have seen fixed conventional loans recently as high as 95/5 with no PMI. Basically, you pay a slightly higher interest rate instead of PMI.


Where? I haven't seen a single bank in years willing to even talk about a 80/10/10.
 
2013-02-02 08:37:16 PM

unlikely: What percentage of 45 year olds were retiring 20 years ago?


==================

THIS

Assuming you graduated college at 22 maybe 24 or 26 years old with an advanced degree, someone made enough money to live on, pay off college, help put their kids through school, maybe take care of elderly parents and retire at 45, with enough money for you and your spouse to live on maybe another 30 to 40 years, with no other income?


/never has, and never will be done legally
 
2013-02-02 08:38:41 PM

Droog8912: a) consumer-driven culture: most people are too stupid to plan for retirement accordingly, as they need the iPhone 5, iPad2, or 65" LED TV because the previous model doesn't have the feature they want
b) many people are still screwed by the housing bubble
c) housing prices will continue to stagnate as boomers try to "cash out" on the massive houses they purchased but have a reduced demand for such housing
d) recessions delay retirements
e) medical technology means longer lifespans, lower infant mortality rate for those with crippling birth defects, illness, etc. leading to higher medical costs
f) longer lifespans mean medical expenses skyrocket, high cost of living
g) higher costs of living mean less consumable income (and conspicuous consumption will have to drop)
h) overly generous benefits/pensions and poor planning to pay for them, particularly of state/local government unfunded liabilities, will weigh heavily upon he economy in the future
i) excessive executive compensation

Result: job market changes, everyone will have to work longer and for less.  Once again, the problems of past generations are kicked down the road to the next.

/yes, I am an economist


In my case, my employment since 2008 has been sporadic, and I feel the need to be easily mobile so I can "move to where the jobs are" ( to paraphrase Sam Kinison). I have chosen not to buy a house because of this.

From 1996-2008, I had solid, "permanent" employment. Today, I do not. I suspect there are many people just like me who are depressing the housing market...
 
2013-02-02 08:46:46 PM

Notabunny: "The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012." That's $300 per week.


The others are scary.  This one, though? Poor, but not impossibly so.

Maybe it's just because of where my retired relatives live (smaller town Plains).  But:

Couple 1: Smaller town in KS. Still a few years out of paying off a $45k house, but mortgage/tax/insurance is ~$450 a month.  Two SS checks of around $1000 each.
Widow 2: Smaller town KS. HUD-subsidized senior apartment ~$350 out of her ~$1000.
Couple 3: Paid off in SD. Tax/insurance ~$200 (but utilities are more)
Couple 4: HUD/town senior apartment in rural MN. Only $250 out of their combined $1500 SS checks (that granny almost never worked outside the home).

So, $700-$1000 per person per month in general expenses.  Not impossible. Easier with a partner or roommate.

Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.  Yes, you're screwed six ways if you have to go into longer-term care, but you're broke anyway.

Remember... literally millions of people in this country DO live on nothing but a Social Security check.  They may have pretty boring lifestyles. But, by and large, they aren't starving in the streets either.
 
2013-02-02 08:52:21 PM
My stepfather passed away at 76. He had a decent pension from his job and social security.  Pensions are largely a thing of the past for the rest of us.
 
2013-02-02 08:56:22 PM

Lawnchair: Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.


Medicare is 80% insurance.  You are responsible for 20% unless you carry a supplemental policy.  Medicare also has a monthly premium, deducted for Social Security.
 
2013-02-02 08:56:23 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


====================


When my kids were in high school, and they wanted to buy a new snowboard, iPod, etc. I would have the take out a 90 day note (of course I would have to cosign), then after about a month they would pay it off and I would cover the $5.00 or so in interest.I also got them gas credit cards that they had to pay off monthly.When they graduated high school they both had credit scores over 800 and still do.Now they are also maxing out their Roth IRA's and contributing 20% of their gross to a 403b or TSP.At the age of 24 and 26 they both have about $50,000 in their retirement accounts.They both have multiple credit cards now and tell me they have never carried a balance from month to month.


/If you want credit you have to use credit
 
2013-02-02 09:05:22 PM

Zoomaster: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

====================


When my kids were in high school, and they wanted to buy a new snowboard, iPod, etc. I would have the take out a 90 day note (of course I would have to cosign), then after about a month they would pay it off and I would cover the $5.00 or so in interest.I also got them gas credit cards that they had to pay off monthly.When they graduated high school they both had credit scores over 800 and still do.Now they are also maxing out their Roth IRA's and contributing 20% of their gross to a 403b or TSP.At the age of 24 and 26 they both have about $50,000 in their retirement accounts.They both have multiple credit cards now and tell me they have never carried a balance from month to month.


/If you want credit you have to use credit


I'm 29 now, but I had a similar treatment when I was a teenager.  My mom cosigned a credit card for me with a low limit (I think it was like $300 or $500).  The card was used for all gas on my car and for when I got things for the house (Once I could drive I'd get sent out with a grocery list).

Credit score over 800, had that same credit card since I was like 15.  The credit score really came in handy when I wanted to buy a house in 2009 after the housing market took a massive dump.
 
2013-02-02 09:12:45 PM

IlGreven: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

If experience even threatens to cut into profit margin, it's a liability that must be purged.  That's why these "experienced" guys are looking for jobs in the first place.


This has become especially true in nursing. Almost all the old nurses that would train the new ones have been let go, because they got paid a little more money and replaced by a nice collection of fresh out of community college nurses with no one to train them when they hit the floor.

Very comforting thought, but at least administrators got a big bonus for cutting staffing costs.
 
2013-02-02 09:15:10 PM

mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.


See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.
 
2013-02-02 09:21:18 PM

Lawnchair: Notabunny: "The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012." That's $300 per week.

The others are scary.  This one, though? Poor, but not impossibly so.

Maybe it's just because of where my retired relatives live (smaller town Plains).  But:

Couple 1: Smaller town in KS. Still a few years out of paying off a $45k house, but mortgage/tax/insurance is ~$450 a month.  Two SS checks of around $1000 each.
Widow 2: Smaller town KS. HUD-subsidized senior apartment ~$350 out of her ~$1000.
Couple 3: Paid off in SD. Tax/insurance ~$200 (but utilities are more)
Couple 4: HUD/town senior apartment in rural MN. Only $250 out of their combined $1500 SS checks (that granny almost never worked outside the home).

So, $700-$1000 per person per month in general expenses.  Not impossible. Easier with a partner or roommate.

Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.  Yes, you're screwed six ways if you have to go into longer-term care, but you're broke anyway.

Remember... literally millions of people in this country DO live on nothing but a Social Security check.  They may have pretty boring lifestyles. But, by and large, they aren't starving in the streets either.


I think a good strategy is to live and work in an expensive place your working years. The salaries will be higher to offset the higher cost of living, but your SS benefits will be higher. Then when you retire you move to some really cheap rural area with no jobs and dirt cheap property, then live large off of your SS checks.

Also, my wife and I aren't going to have kids, so our hail mary play is to spend our lives building up huge limits on our credit cards and not using them. That way, when we get to the end of our lives and need cash flow, we can just max out the cards and then die tens of thousands of dollars in debt. With no survivors, the banks can just go fark themselves.
 
2013-02-02 09:34:13 PM
HA-HA!...and I'm one them!
 
2013-02-02 09:52:59 PM

jst3p: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Many places are reluctant to hire old folks due to the increased burden on their healthcare plan that eventually results in higher premiums.


Not with Obamacare it doesn't!
 
2013-02-02 10:07:47 PM

jst3p:

Time and money heals a FICO score.

Thanks for the link. I'm just getting started with all this crap and that should make for some great reading.

HempHead:

Read

Added to Amazon. Thanks.

InmanRoshi:

Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.

Thanks. Need something else besides Ramsey. He's got some good advice but then the whole religion/politics comes into play then I start tuning out.

dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.

clowncar on fire: Talk to you lendi ...


Thank you for that very detailed answer. This thread has been great for knowing where to start. Enjoy your free month.
 
2013-02-02 10:21:19 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


Planet Money, Marketplace Money and Marketplace.
 
2013-02-02 10:34:23 PM

alwaysjaded: dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.


Go to a small community bank or credit union and sit down with a loan officer. Explain that you that you have a down payment, stable employment and made your rental payments, but have not used credit and ask what you need to do get a mortgage.

You'll probably need to bring 2 years worth of rental receipts, 2 years of tax returns and W-2s, 2 months of bank statements and investment statements and a month's worth of paystubs.
 
2013-02-02 10:46:58 PM

unlikely: What percentage of 45 year olds were retiring 20 years ago?


How could you retire at age 50 anyway? With a good 30 years left to live? Wouldn't you get bored?
 
2013-02-02 10:58:06 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Not always. These days some employers (IMO) are foregoing that max experience the p person for the position SHOULD have in favor of the "barely above minimum" requirements a younger person might have.
Why might they do this?
- medical and insurance costs, including children who might be covered under the employer's plan

- more flexible scheduling - no kids, no commitments, nothing. Work them to death because you can, and at any hours.

- lower salaries - someone with experience who's been in an industry for 10, 15, 20 years or more has already "paid their dues" and wants to be paid real money for that knowledge and experience. All some 20-something needs is enough to pay the rent with two other roommates and feed their beer, world of warcraft and cellphone habits. They're not going to be paying a mortgage or putting kids through college.

- fear of competition - the person doing the hiring may only be in their 30's, while the potential applicant might be 10 or 20 years older and with more experience. If they are hired they will probably rise in the ranks more quickly due to having "been there, done that", and the 30 year old might think their job would be jeopardized by this older person.

-other really stupid reasons only they can think of.
 
2013-02-02 10:59:11 PM

alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?


Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.
 
2013-02-02 10:59:54 PM
Mr. Eugenides:

Planet Money, Marketplace Money and Marketplace.

Aaaannndd added. Thank you.

dustman81:

Go to a small community bank or credit union and sit down with a loan officer. Explain that you that you have a down payment, stable employment and made your rental payments, but have not used credit and ask what you need to do get a mortgage.

You'll probably need to bring 2 years worth of rental receipts, 2 years of tax returns and W-2s, 2 months of bank statements and investment statements and a month's worth of paystubs.


I actually did try to open an account with a credit union but the ones I talked to only allowed direct deposit and my company doesn't do that cause technically we're contractors. I'm a small hydraulic crane operator at the refineries. I've been with this company for 6 years but it causes some complications. I wound up opening an account with Chase simply cause it was more convenient and my family banks with them and have had no problems. Hopefully I can try again with the CU's when I get back to Houston. But I'm scheduled to go to Martinez CA, Anacortes WA and Kansas (currently in Corpus Christie) next so who the hell knows when I'll get a chance. But thanks for your input.
 
2013-02-02 11:01:08 PM

Krieghund: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?

Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.


Heh. Got beat on one. Will add Motley Fool. Thanks.
 
2013-02-02 11:02:05 PM
I'm just going to point my finger and laugh at all the people that actually thought the article was about people retiring when they were between 45 and 60.

It's about people currently between 45 and 60 and when they plan to retire.
 
2013-02-02 11:17:00 PM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


Welcome to my world. My retirement plans went down the tubes, so I expect to be working well into my retirement years. And, I'm actually OK with that, because I've seen my competition, and I'm pretty much unconcerned.
 
2013-02-02 11:19:44 PM

rewind2846: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

Not always. These days some employers (IMO) are foregoing that max experience the p person for the position SHOULD have in favor of the "barely above minimum" requirements a younger person might have.
Why might they do this?
- medical and insurance costs, including children who might be covered under the employer's plan

- more flexible scheduling - no kids, no commitments, nothing. Work them to death because you can, and at any hours.

- lower salaries - someone with experience who's been in an industry for 10, 15, 20 years or more has already "paid their dues" and wants to be paid real money for that knowledge and experience. All some 20-something needs is enough to pay the rent with two other roommates and feed their beer, world of warcraft and cellphone habits. They're not going to be paying a mortgage or putting kids through college.

- fear of competition - the person doing the hiring may only be in their 30's, while the potential applicant might be 10 or 20 years older and with more experience. If they are hired they will probably rise in the ranks more quickly due to having "been there, done that", and the 30 year old might think their job would be jeopardized by this older person.

-other really stupid reasons only they can think of.


Sounds like the makings of a great age discrimination lawsuit. These practices probably exist out there, but hiring managers can't be overt about it because they open themselves up to hungry lawyers raping them in court. Small companies might be able to pull a lot of that crap, but larger companies are pretty strict with their hiring policies because they don't want to be open to the threat of a lawsuit.
 
2013-02-02 11:32:59 PM

Linux_Yes: Pope Larry II: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

I started at 25. I have a set amount automatically transfered each month. It has worked well for me so far. I should be able to retire nicely, thanks to this and my company's pension plan.

till the bottom drops out and bread costs 25 bucks/loaf.


And 'Till the pension gets looted, like they always seem to.

I started when I was 6, I stopped when I was 18, I wasn't able to start again until 26, and had to stop again 2 years later.  I'm 30 and might be able to start again 5 years from now IF I don't get wiped out by another major accident, layoff in the family, or similar very-likely-to-occur hammer of hateful reality in an economy that is perpetually "bad" enough that it can be used as an excuse to not give anyone raises.

Mad_Radhu: Sounds like the makings of a great age discrimination lawsuit. These practices probably exist out there, but hiring managers can't be overt about it because they open themselves up to hungry lawyers raping them in court. Small companies might be able to pull a lot of that crap, but larger companies are pretty strict with their hiring policies because they don't want to be open to the threat of a lawsuit.


Are you  farking kidding?  Right-to-work legislation buddy, they can fire your ass for any god-damn thing and you ain't winnin' that lawsuit unless you ARE the lawyer, and a damn good one.  It's already in too many states and the Neofeudalists lobby every day to get it passed in the rest.
 
2013-02-02 11:38:17 PM

Frozboz: mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.

See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.


You transition into management, which is harder every year as the management becomes less of a job and more of a social caste.  You sink roots into some massive code written in some ancient language that no one else knows so that you're "the only guy who understands the payroll system."  Or you become the bitter old guy working tech support and bouncing from job to job, no family or kids or prospects and die (still fairly early) of a heart attack or suicide.
 
2013-02-02 11:38:25 PM
sammyk:
That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.

If the discrimination can be proven. Consider this: a position is advertised, you apply, all the potential employer has to do is google your name to find out how old you are OR look at the experience you put on your resume.

They never call you back if you're fortunate enough to get an interview, or never call you for an interview at all.

How can you prove discrimination? Proof is what counts in court. Sexual harassment cases must have a documented record of assholiness by the harasser to hold up in court, as do racial discrimination cases. If you never get hired in the first place it will be difficult that you weren't hired because of your age.
 
2013-02-02 11:40:48 PM
missed "to show" that you weren't hired because of your age.
 
2013-02-02 11:44:13 PM
This is why I got a job with a pension and a deferred compensation plan.  Sure working for the gubbamint has it's drawbacks, but being a  near 50 year old IT worker, it looks good from my vantage point.

///I have my retirement scheduled for between 59.5 and 62.
 
2013-02-02 11:44:51 PM

alwaysjaded: Krieghund: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?

Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.

Heh. Got beat on one. Will add Motley Fool. Thanks.




You might also subscribe to Naked Capitalism daily email. It's a commentary on economics and financial news. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/
 
2013-02-02 11:44:57 PM

rewind2846: sammyk:
That may be true for small companies. You know where rookies cut their teeth. But most corporations do not consider age. Would you like to know why? It's clearly illegal and the older person will all of the sudden have a well funded retirement on the settlement the company that does that will pay to keep it out of court.

If the discrimination can be proven. Consider this: a position is advertised, you apply, all the potential employer has to do is google your name to find out how old you are OR look at the experience you put on your resume.

They never call you back if you're fortunate enough to get an interview, or never call you for an interview at all.

How can you prove discrimination? Proof is what counts in court. Sexual harassment cases must have a documented record of assholiness by the harasser to hold up in court, as do racial discrimination cases. If you never get hired in the first place it will be difficult that you weren't hired because of your age.


The starting hypothesis is still long-running careers with the same company, unfortunately that paradigm has mostly disappeared from the positions that are not management/sales.  Most people who actually WORK for a living (/cheapshot) are basically expected to switch jobs on a regular basis because if they don't they're being "Haws" and "complaining someone moved their cheese."

Mind you, plenty of folks DO, it's a complex world with a lot of foibles and failures, but the current wealth disparity in America makes it pretty clear which side's propaganda is more accurate.
 
2013-02-02 11:47:08 PM

ajgeek: Can you regulate greed? Is that possible?


You can always tax it.  Maybe.
 
2013-02-02 11:52:10 PM
I apparently work with the 38%.

"Why can't I open the files in the zip file?"

"Did you extract the files first?"

"........."
 
2013-02-03 12:01:53 AM

Frozboz: mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.

See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.




Your very smart to ask that question now. Ageism is rampant in the hi tech industry. It's really bad in Silicon Valley.

I moved to finance. I specialized in an database/application used by finance departments. Finance is where the money is at.
 
2013-02-03 12:02:39 AM

TheBigJerk: Are you  farking kidding?  Right-to-work legislation buddy, they can fire your ass for any god-damn thing and you ain't winnin' that lawsuit unless you ARE the lawyer, and a damn good one.  It's already in too many states and the Neofeudalists lobby every day to get it passed in the rest.


What does right to work legislation have to do with discrimination? Even in a right to work state, you can still sue for racial hiring discrimination, for example. Age discrimination is a hell of a lot harder to sue, but any large corporation with deep pockets is going to be a honey pot for a class action if they demonstrate a bias against hiring qualified older workers. Never underestimate the power of hungry lawyers. I've been involved in hiring employees before in a previous job, and our HR people had a scared straight talk with us about not even giving the APPEARANCE of bias accidentally. Again, smaller companies can pull this shiat, but large companies are big fat targets for lawsuits.
 
2013-02-03 12:09:47 AM

alwaysjaded: jst3p:

Time and money heals a FICO score.

Thanks for the link. I'm just getting started with all this crap and that should make for some great reading.

HempHead:

Read

Added to Amazon. Thanks.

InmanRoshi:

Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.

Thanks. Need something else besides Ramsey. He's got some good advice but then the whole religion/politics comes into play then I start tuning out.

dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.

clowncar on fire: Talk to you lendi ...

Thank you for that very detailed answer. This thread has been great for knowing where to start. Enjoy your free month.


Wow, normally I'm considered a pariah here on the politics tab for my more conservative point of view.

You start talking survival economics- there is no left and right as we are all in this one together.  All the advice I passed on to you has gotten me started or kept me out of a financial bind.  I've always paid attention to where my money was, where my obligations were, and where I want to be.  It's a daunting task getting started, especially with all the more interesting options other than saving or paying off your debts, but I assure you it gets better as that 401k clears that first 10k, car gets paid off, credit blows through the 800 mark, etc. The fact your asking questions now means you are already taking the first steps in formulating your financial plan for the future.

I wish you the best of luck, thanks for the membership for the month.  Much appreciated as I have been meaning to try out total fark on a test run.  Being sponsored just makes it all that sweeter!
 
2013-02-03 12:30:13 AM
This is what happens when you "profit" from working the middle and working class like slaves.

Enjoy Snowcrash.
 
2013-02-03 01:51:24 AM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


How many times do you have to be told to pay for everything with a credit card but pay it off each month?
 
2013-02-03 01:54:16 AM

stiletto_the_wise: Harry_Seldon: This is not true for many mortgage products. 80/10/10 loans are a good way to avoid PMI on a conventional loans. Banks will give you a HELOC for 10% down, and this is a nice line of credit you can pay down. However the rate on this 10% is higher, and can be variable.

I have seen fixed conventional loans recently as high as 95/5 with no PMI. Basically, you pay a slightly higher interest rate instead of PMI.

Where? I haven't seen a single bank in years willing to even talk about a 80/10/10.


US Bank gave me a 80/10/10 in November. The financing was non eventful.
 
2013-02-03 02:23:15 AM

coeyagi: I apparently work with the 38%.

"Why can't I open the files in the zip file?"

"Did you extract the files first?"

"........."


That has nothing to do with age. I've had to tell people both older and younger than myself that kind of thing on a regular basis. There are people in their 20s and in their 60s who think that computers are some kind of magic destructo weapon that will implode upon being given the wrong command...and people in both age groups who evidently believe that there are little people inside the computer who hide files so they cannot find them later.
 
2013-02-03 03:01:06 AM

Lawnchair: Notabunny: "The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012." That's $300 per week.

The others are scary.  This one, though? Poor, but not impossibly so.

Maybe it's just because of where my retired relatives live (smaller town Plains).  But:

Couple 1: Smaller town in KS. Still a few years out of paying off a $45k house, but mortgage/tax/insurance is ~$450 a month.  Two SS checks of around $1000 each.
Widow 2: Smaller town KS. HUD-subsidized senior apartment ~$350 out of her ~$1000.
Couple 3: Paid off in SD. Tax/insurance ~$200 (but utilities are more)
Couple 4: HUD/town senior apartment in rural MN. Only $250 out of their combined $1500 SS checks (that granny almost never worked outside the home).

So, $700-$1000 per person per month in general expenses.  Not impossible. Easier with a partner or roommate.

Remember, you're on Medicare at this point.  Yes, you're screwed six ways if you have to go into longer-term care, but you're broke anyway.

Remember... literally millions of people in this country DO live on nothing but a Social Security check.  They may have pretty boring lifestyles. But, by and large, they aren't starving in the streets either.


I wonder if the millions of elderly living in poverty and bankruptcy share your view
 
2013-02-03 07:29:56 AM

sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.


No it doesn't.
 
2013-02-03 07:44:27 AM

HempHead: alwaysjaded: Krieghund: alwaysjaded: Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances?

Marketplace Money and the Motley Fool are my two favorite sources for financial advice.

Heh. Got beat on one. Will add Motley Fool. Thanks.



You might also subscribe to Naked Capitalism daily email. It's a commentary on economics and financial news. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/


Added. Thanks.
 
2013-02-03 07:48:23 AM

clowncar on fire: alwaysjaded: jst3p:

Time and money heals a FICO score.

Thanks for the link. I'm just getting started with all this crap and that should make for some great reading.

HempHead:

Read

Added to Amazon. Thanks.

InmanRoshi:

Listen to Clark Howard Show  daily podcast that's pulled from his syndicated radio show.   He doesn't give stock or investment advice, but he's pretty good about common sense advice to saving money, consumer advocacy, preparing for retirement, avoiding scams and making major financial decisions.

Thanks. Need something else besides Ramsey. He's got some good advice but then the whole religion/politics comes into play then I start tuning out.

dustman81:

The financial person I talked to didn't mention this. He must have sucked. I have a perfect renting history and all my bills have been paid on time. I guess it's time to hire a real financial adviser and see what he can do with it. Seems like that should have been my first avenue. Oh well.

clowncar on fire: Talk to you lendi ...

Thank you for that very detailed answer. This thread has been great for knowing where to start. Enjoy your free month.

Wow, normally I'm considered a pariah here on the politics tab for my more conservative point of view.

You start talking survival economics- there is no left and right as we are all in this one together.  All the advice I passed on to you has gotten me started or kept me out of a financial bind.  I've always paid attention to where my money was, where my obligations were, and where I want to be.  It's a daunting task getting started, especially with all the more interesting options other than saving or paying off your debts, but I assure you it gets better as that 401k clears that first 10k, car gets paid off, credit blows through the 800 mark, etc. The fact your asking questions now means you are already taking the first steps in formulating your financial plan for the future.

I wish you the best of luck, thanks for the membership for the month.  Much appreciated as I have been meaning to try out total fark on a test run.  Being sponsored just makes it all that sweeter!


Eh, my politics are in shades of gray. I'm willing to listen to anyone, regardless of what we disagree on. Plus, if I dismissed everyone cause we didn't see eye to eye on everything I wouldn't have any friends. So thanks, I'll research and apply what will work and discard what won't work.
 
2013-02-03 07:51:39 AM

HaywoodJablonski: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.

How many times do you have to be told to pay for everything with a credit card but pay it off each month?


Countless. I'm starting from zero basically. Spent my growing years getting my ass kicked by life and most of my 20's in a steamy love affair with narcotics. Got clean years ago, took a few years to dig out of that crater sized hole and now it's time get serious about my finances.

Plus, first time I've even HAD money that didn't immediately go to a dealer.
 
2013-02-03 09:13:32 AM

ghare: johne3819: I thought we're supposed to work til we're 70 now right?  Isn't that what Romney and supporters were saying during the election?  The SS age is needs to be raised is all the rage.  I mean since we live to be 72 now, we should be cool with 2 years..

Just FYI, SS retirement age HAS ALREADY been raised, back in the 80's. But nah, really, they should raise it again, because Romney pays way too much in taxes already.


SS is going to go insolvent at some point without changes. People simply haven't been paying in enough is SS taxes to support the benefit that they expect. Raising the age and lowering benefits are the prudent and fair things to do.
 
2013-02-03 11:50:53 AM

alwaysjaded: Countless. I'm starting from zero basically. Spent my growing years getting my ass kicked by life and most of my 20's in a steamy love affair with narcotics. Got clean years ago, took a few years to dig out of that crater sized hole and now it's time get serious about my finances.


Besides the credit card paid each month (which is excellent advice), look for financing other purchases as well.  One example - look for deals where there is no interest for X months (and make sure that there's no penalty for early payment - the goal is to pay off everything within X-1 months and pay the same as if you paid cash).  These are technically lines of credit and show up as such on a credit history report.

Also, make sure your apartment and utilities are paid for on time every month for five years; a single missed payment can wreak havoc on your credit.

Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.
 
2013-02-03 09:39:38 PM

itsdan: alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early.

It's actually a bit late. Start now. Just open an IRA and start depositing money routinely. If you can have your employer send a fixed amount or % automatically (via a split direct deposit if you use that) even better. Traditional IRA's = tax deduction now, pay taxes on earnings when you take them. Roth IRA = pay taxes now, no taxes when you take it later. I went with traditional since I figure tax rates will be lower for me when I retire and have no income.


Index funds in a Roth IRA. An IRA is just a tax status. You still have to put your money somewhere, and an Index fund is the safest for a 10+ year timeline.  When you learn more about it you can take some of the money (10-15%) and start putting it in higher-risk higher-yield funds or stocks. But wait until you know more about it.
 
2013-02-04 10:18:22 AM
When your generation feels that it needs to implement "right to fire" laws around the country to protect It's "maker" class, while removing union protections, and simultaneously raising the age requirements for Medicaid and social security benefits, don't complain when said laws keep your "real american" ass on the grind until you check into the old folks home.
 
2013-02-04 11:24:53 AM

Frozboz: mayIFark: sammyk: It's not a competition. Experience will always win.

After you turn on their computer for them.

A 60 YO has no chance of being up to date on most of the demanding position these days.

See this is what worries me as a late 30s software engineer.  What should I be doing at 60?  I can't see myself writing code then, but who knows.  No one in a tech position at my company is over 45ish, and all the management types have always been managers.  What do software people do when they get older?  Transition into management?

/that sounds like a really stupid question, I know.


It's not a stupid question.  I am 53 and I still do coding and analysis.  There is a role for the senior engineer/technical specialist.  I also go out to client sites.  I fill-in do to end-user training when needed, and I do some database management.  The variety of skills and experience keeps me employed. Management is not the only route - maybe not at your company, but certainly at others.
 
2013-02-04 11:29:36 AM

alwaysjaded: That's why I've been looking into starting a retirement package and really learn how to manage my money while I'm young. I'm 32 and figure it's never too early. Plus every single one of the 50+ co-workers around here advise it.

Anyone know of any good books or podcasts about finances? Looking to buy a house soon and I've got shiat credit but a good down payment on a mortgage. Who knew not having any debt, paying everything in cash and living within my means would one day bite me in the ass for a loan.


I was in a similar situation when I bought my house (no debt, no credit cards).  They took "traditional credit", meaning I had to get letters from utility companies saying I was never late on a payment.  I also now have a Discover card that I use to buy stuff, then pay off to build credit.  Additional benefits from having another card are cash back and not having to worry about the credit card linked to my bank account getting stolen again.
 
2013-02-04 01:23:43 PM
Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.

Bullshiat.
 
2013-02-04 08:43:51 PM
I doesn't matter any way . Acording to polls there are not enough Americans who are willing to fill those jobs anyway .
 
2013-02-04 10:22:41 PM

Madbassist1: Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.

Bullshiat.



The FICO score is bullshait. The FICO doesn't indicate how financially successful you are, it indicates how well you borrow money and pay it back.

Someone with credit card debt, car loan debt, student loan debt, mortgage debt and home equity debt would have a higher FICO score than someone who pays cash for everything, even though the chance of default for the cash user would be lower than the one who is up to their neck in hock.
 
2013-02-05 09:55:17 AM

dustman81: Madbassist1: Unfortunately, new credit tends to be a bad thing for your credit history; old credit tends to be good, so getting a charge card would have an immediate drop but a long-term gain in credit.

Bullshiat.


The FICO score is bullshait. The FICO doesn't indicate how financially successful you are, it indicates how well you borrow money and pay it back.

Someone with credit card debt, car loan debt, student loan debt, mortgage debt and home equity debt would have a higher FICO score than someone who pays cash for everything, even though the chance of default for the cash user would be lower than the one who is up to their neck in hock.


Not disagreeing with you in any way. I'm merely saying that getting another card does not lower your score. Having more credit available to you will increase your score. I think someone who pays for everything in cash is probably more responsible than someone who doesnt
 
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