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(The New York Times)   FTC pushes for enforceable do-not-track on mobiles. Facebook and Google seen readying their nukes   (nytimes.com) divider line 45
    More: Obvious, Google, Federal Trade Commission, Facebook, mobile apps, unfair business practices, California Attorney General, address book  
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2533 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Feb 2013 at 5:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-02 03:58:08 PM
I don't have a problem with this.

I had a problem when I discovered just how many ways we can be tracked and spied on through items we depend on. Especially when reading about a GPS tracker in a cell phone which could not be turned off. Then finding out that some cells could be activated when shut off just like some webcams could be turned on remotely by a hacker and you'd never know he was watching you. (My webcam is unplugged.)

I drive a late model car. Aside from not being able to work on the engine because of all of the electronics, it has this automatic light thingie. When I turn the key, the headlights pop on if it's too dark. The parking lights come on no matter what.

I can't shut them off, even with the adjustment control.

Now, there have been times in my past where I've found it necessary to park, lights out, at night, not wanting to be seen. (Like when I caught my last G/F cheating on me.) A long time ago, I found it necessary to do the same thing to avoid the cops who were determined to pull me over.

You can't do that in my current car. Shut the thing off and those lights keep right on burning for several minutes.

I was impressed when PCs became available to the general public. I've been impressed as they have evolved over time and when the Internet opened up. However, I became alarmed when suddenly, advertisers discovered this untapped resource to foul up, SPAMMERS appeared and then hackers started screwing up systems just for fun.

Suddenly, I had to arm my system with expensive security measures, and still some bright boy would find a way in. In a era of HD space limited to megabytes, the constant upgrades of anti-virus and anti-malware programs could eat up available memory and resources fast.

Cell phones appeared and I was impressed, especially when they went from about the size of a carton of smokes to something close to a credit card. I was still impressed when they turned into camcorders, video players, had internet access and scores more things.

I was a courier using a map book to deliver before they came out with Google maps and GPS on the cells. Plus, I had to use a short wave radio to communicate with my base. Every driver could listen to any heated discussion I got in to with management. I was forever adding streets and addresses to my map books.

Now, couriers use cells with Google maps and GPS.

On one hand, it makes their job nicer, on the other, they can't goof off and hide like they used to because the boss can pinpoint their location and see how long they've been there.

I grew up in the pen and paper era. Privacy was not only a big thing, but hard and expensive to invade. If I wanted a beer for lunch, my boss wouldn't find out. Today, he can dial in the company cell and use GPS to find out where I might be 'dining'. Even if I shut the phone off.

(I could have used that when I was a courier and a manager. I didn't know it but I had a driver who drank his lunch every day. I had another who would hide and lie about his location to avoid having to help another driver.)

When there are no laws governing a technology, people will promptly take advantage of it for personal gain. Customer lists started being sold between companies. Later, companies paid SPAMMERS to clog up your inbox with crap. Hackers developed programs to steal your information or to use your computer as a bot to steal more information.

Pretty much, today they virtually can tell when you take a leak and where you're doing it.

New laws have had to been made.

The Cellular companies included these programs in your phones and systems for a reason. No doubt, as a way to make major bucks later on. After all, information gathering has become a lucrative business.

Why do you think some phones have GPS which can't be turned off? Why do phone companies keep such extensive records of your usage and calls for so long when space on a server is precious? Who gave Google a right to save records of your searches and why would they do it anyhow? Why does your cell save copies of every text you send or get, unless you deliberately delete them?

Like, when landlords started secretly wiring their apartments with spy cams and recording the tenants. The first several to get caught were found to not be breaking any laws. They had a right to peek in on that hot chick renting their place as she used the can.

We had to write new laws concerning invasion of privacy.

That brings up the question. If we have the technology to do something, should we? Even if there are no laws against it because such a situation has never come up before?

So, I approve of the new laws.

I'm also going to find out how to rewire that darn switch on my car so I can shut all of the lights off when I want them off. Even if I have to install another switch.
 
2013-02-02 04:05:17 PM
Jesus was an extraterrestrial
 
2013-02-02 04:22:30 PM

Rik01: I don't have a problem with this.

I had a problem when I discovered just how many ways we can be tracked and spied on through items we depend on. Especially when reading about a GPS tracker in a cell phone which could not be turned off. Then finding out that some cells could be activated when shut off just like some webcams could be turned on remotely by a hacker and you'd never know he was watching you. (My webcam is unplugged.)

I drive a late model car. Aside from not being able to work on the engine because of all of the electronics, it has this automatic light thingie. When I turn the key, the headlights pop on if it's too dark. The parking lights come on no matter what.

I can't shut them off, even with the adjustment control.

Now, there have been times in my past where I've found it necessary to park, lights out, at night, not wanting to be seen. (Like when I caught my last G/F cheating on me.) A long time ago, I found it necessary to do the same thing to avoid the cops who were determined to pull me over.

You can't do that in my current car. Shut the thing off and those lights keep right on burning for several minutes.

I was impressed when PCs became available to the general public. I've been impressed as they have evolved over time and when the Internet opened up. However, I became alarmed when suddenly, advertisers discovered this untapped resource to foul up, SPAMMERS appeared and then hackers started screwing up systems just for fun.

Suddenly, I had to arm my system with expensive security measures, and still some bright boy would find a way in. In a era of HD space limited to megabytes, the constant upgrades of anti-virus and anti-malware programs could eat up available memory and resources fast.

Cell phones appeared and I was impressed, especially when they went from about the size of a carton of smokes to something close to a credit card. I was still impressed when they turned into camcorders, video players, had internet access and scores more ...


tl;dr;old man yells at cloud
 
2013-02-02 04:28:09 PM

unlikely: Jesus was an extraterrestrial


lol, wut?
 
2013-02-02 06:33:29 PM
Facebook and Google could just block access to their sites from such devices.
 
2013-02-02 07:06:24 PM

some_beer_drinker: unlikely: Jesus was an extraterrestrial

lol, wut?


Well the Mormons believe that God was an alien that slept with Mary so that makes Jesus half alien.

Also I hate how facebook is bloatware on most phones and you can't opt out of their permissions
 
2013-02-02 07:08:51 PM

Rik01: I don't have a problem with this.


snip

You can turn your lights off by activating the parking brake, while in park, at least click usually. also, RTFM. It will tell you how to turn them off.
 
2013-02-02 07:21:57 PM

Rik01: Why do phone companies keep such extensive records of your usage and calls for so long when space on a server is precious? Who gave Google a right to save records of your searches and why would they do it anyhow? Why does your cell save copies of every text you send or get, unless you deliberately delete them?


Well, I can answer this.  1.  Server hard drive space isn't precious at all.  It's like 5 cents per gigabyte.  2.  Knowing how people use your service and how lets you figure out how to improve it.  3.  Ditto on Google and why they save records, so they can see where their algorithm fails at or could be improved upon.  3.  As per cell saving copies, because, yet again, space is cheap.
 
2013-02-02 07:37:09 PM
They used to publish these books with EVERYONE'S address and phone number in them. It was horrible. You could never feel safe at home, knowing that anyone could find you.

Worse yet, they used to just give out copies of these books.
 
2013-02-02 07:41:57 PM
TFA: The staff report [..] is an indication of how seriously the agency is focused on mobile privacy.

Since it seems to be about making DNT available on mobile browsers..is the indication "not at all"?
 
2013-02-02 07:59:31 PM

Rik01: I can't shut them off, even with the adjustment control.

Now, there have been times in my past where I've found it necessary to park, lights out, at night, not wanting to be seen. (Like when I caught my last G/F cheating on me.) A long time ago, I found it necessary to do the same thing to avoid the cops who were determined to pull me over.


Try the parking brake / e-brake. That often turns off daytime-running-lights.
 
2013-02-02 08:04:11 PM

unlikely: Jesus was an extraterrestrial


Eh... Jesus built my hotrod.
 
2013-02-02 08:06:01 PM
Rik01: information gathering has become a lucrative business.

I work in Business Intelligence, so I'm really getting a kick out of most of these replies.// I take data and turn it into charts and graphs
 
2013-02-02 08:09:35 PM
I expect Google will get Wikipedia to turn out the lights, just like they did with SOPA. The whole reason for Android was that Google wanted to make sure that they could serve advertisements to and track people on their phones. That's why it's "free".
 
2013-02-02 08:16:00 PM

LrdPhoenix: Rik01: Why do phone companies keep such extensive records of your usage and calls for so long when space on a server is precious? Who gave Google a right to save records of your searches and why would they do it anyhow? Why does your cell save copies of every text you send or get, unless you deliberately delete them?

Well, I can answer this.  1.  Server hard drive space isn't precious at all.  It's like 5 cents per gigabyte.  2.  Knowing how people use your service and how lets you figure out how to improve it.  3.  Ditto on Google and why they save records, so they can see where their algorithm fails at or could be improved upon.  3.  As per cell saving copies, because, yet again, space is cheap.


So they can give it to whomever wants to know the quality and duration of the last 50 times you peed, and who you were talking to while you did it.
 
2013-02-02 08:17:35 PM

lordargent: Rik01: information gathering has become a lucrative business.

I work in Business Intelligence, so I'm really getting a kick out of most of these replies.// I take data and turn it into charts and graphs


You're not helping.
 
2013-02-02 08:23:20 PM

unlikely: Jesus was an extraterrestrial

is a raisin

/ftfy
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=414TmP12WAU
 
2013-02-02 08:45:25 PM

LrdPhoenix: Rik01: Why do phone companies keep such extensive records of your usage and calls for so long when space on a server is precious? Who gave Google a right to save records of your searches and why would they do it anyhow? Why does your cell save copies of every text you send or get, unless you deliberately delete them?

Well, I can answer this.  1.  Server hard drive space isn't precious at all.  It's like 5 cents per gigabyte.  2.  Knowing how people use your service and how lets you figure out how to improve it.  3.  Ditto on Google and why they save records, so they can see where their algorithm fails at or could be improved upon.  3.  As per cell saving copies, because, yet again, space is cheap.


Because google makes money from the services that they sell us.
 
2013-02-02 08:55:00 PM

lordargent: I work in Business Intelligence, so I'm really getting a kick out of most of these replies.// I take data and turn it into charts and graphs


Are you still with us, working for Uncle Irwin's son?
 
2013-02-02 09:05:37 PM
unlikely: Are you still with us, working for Uncle Irwin's son?

Yup, something like 16 years now, I'm a lifer.
 
2013-02-02 09:09:39 PM

narkor: I expect Google will get Wikipedia to turn out the lights, just like they did with SOPA. The whole reason for Android was that Google wanted to make sure that they could serve advertisements to and track people on their phones. That's why it's "free".


Google didn't "get" Wikipedia to do a damn thing. They just so happened to agree with Google on the SOPA issue.

Google doesn't own Wikipedia, and they would tell Google to go fark themselves if they claimed to.
 
2013-02-02 09:19:12 PM
It's really worrisome how far America is lagging behind in building a healthy set of up-to-date personal liberties. It's totally illegal for the government to tap my phone line without a warrant (well, ostensibly), but suddenly if you put that same level of information on a computer, it's fair game. Wha? Why?

We should be ashamed that the only answer available these days is: "if you want personal privacy protections, move to Germany or Brazil".
 
2013-02-02 09:52:00 PM
Is there an Android app that would let 'lie' to the other apps when they try to get things like your position etc?
 
2013-02-02 10:23:21 PM

Rik01: I don't have a problem with this.

I had a problem when I discovered just how many ways we can be tracked and spied on through items we depend on. Especially when reading about a GPS tracker in a cell phone which could not be turned off. Then finding out that some cells could be activated when shut off just like some webcams could be turned on remotely by a hacker and you'd never know he was watching you. (My webcam is unplugged.)

I drive a late model car. Aside from not being able to work on the engine because of all of the electronics, it has this automatic light thingie. When I turn the key, the headlights pop on if it's too dark. The parking lights come on no matter what.

I can't shut them off, even with the adjustment control.


Interesting you mention this, we were discussing this situation today.  Here's what you do if you want to disable the headlights while at rest or parked:
1  Shut the engine off.
2  Set the parking brake
3  Restart the engine

You might have learned this if you had read the operators manual that came with your vehicle
 
2013-02-02 10:37:59 PM
But I like having my phone watch and listen to my every move.

It's like someone cares enough to stalk me!
 
2013-02-02 10:53:04 PM
Didn't Chrome put this feature in awhile ago and was one of the first browsers to do so and started the do not track craze? I wonder who makes Chrome?

(also said feature is on Chrome for Android)
 
2013-02-02 11:00:43 PM
so Path = bad, Facebook = good

when the law starts protecting the embedded players, you know your industry has arrived. congrats.
 
2013-02-02 11:28:58 PM

Krab: some_beer_drinker: unlikely: Jesus was an extraterrestrial

lol, wut?

Well the Mormons believe that God was an alien that slept with Mary so that makes Jesus half alien.

Also I hate how facebook is bloatware on most phones and you can't opt out of their permissions


Root and install LBE Privacy Guard from the Play Store. You can choose which permissions to allow.
 
2013-02-02 11:30:12 PM
Roughly everybody in this thread doesn't realize that "do-not-track" has nothing to do with physical location. It's about preventing websites from trying to spot you as you move from site to site, by putting a tracking cookie on every site and then watching where you move.

To be fair, the FTC probably doesn't know that either.
 
2013-02-02 11:40:24 PM

xant: Roughly everybody in this thread doesn't realize that "do-not-track" has nothing to do with physical location. It's about preventing websites from trying to spot you as you move from site to site, by putting a tracking cookie on every site and then watching where you move.

To be fair, the FTC probably doesn't know that either.


It would help if the article didn't use an example that involved apps with multiple geolocation requests.
 
2013-02-02 11:53:24 PM

psychoace: Didn't Chrome put this feature in awhile ago and was one of the first browsers to do so and started the do not track craze? I wonder who makes Chrome?

(also said feature is on Chrome for Android)


Ha ha, no.
 
2013-02-03 12:06:48 AM
Crtl+F "Brain"

This thread does not meet my entertainment needs. Riko01s off-the-meds rant was close, though.
 
2013-02-03 12:24:16 AM
Don't want your phone to snitch on your position while at lunch?

Pull the battery.

/looks at iPhone users

HA_HA!.jpg
 
2013-02-03 12:43:16 AM

lohphat: Don't want your phone to snitch on your position while at lunch?

Pull the battery.

/looks at iPhone users

HA_HA!.jpg


Nah, just hold the iPhone the wrong way and you'll be fine.
 
2013-02-03 02:05:35 AM
fark'emfeed'emfish:
Because google makes money from the services that they sell us.

You're not the customer, you're the product.
 
2013-02-03 02:40:11 AM
Impossible.  Literally impossible.

Your phone gets its GPS from cell tower triangulation, not GPS satellites.  If your phone is working, your carrier knows exactly where you are.

Pointless fake security is pointless and fake.
 
2013-02-03 02:40:55 AM

xant: Roughly everybody in this thread doesn't realize that "do-not-track" has nothing to do with physical location. It's about preventing websites from trying to spot you as you move from site to site, by putting a tracking cookie on every site and then watching where you move.

To be fair, the FTC probably doesn't know that either.


.....oh.   lol.
 
2013-02-03 06:49:50 AM

Alonjar: Impossible.  Literally impossible.

Your phone gets its GPS from cell tower triangulation, not GPS satellites.  If your phone is working, your carrier knows exactly where you are.

Pointless fake security is pointless and fake.


Many, if not most, new smart phones have real GPS receivers.
 
2013-02-03 07:23:37 AM
They aren't tracking me. My life is far too boring.
 
2013-02-03 09:50:00 AM

Alonjar: Impossible.  Literally impossible.

Your phone gets its GPS from cell tower triangulation, not GPS satellites.  If your phone is working, your carrier knows exactly where you are.

Pointless fake security is pointless and fake.


Sorta like the TSA?
 
2013-02-03 05:20:22 PM
Alonjar: Your phone gets its GPS from cell tower triangulation, not GPS satellites.

They use real GPS now, they also still use triangulation in certain situations. Android phones also use google's wifi map.

//

Each of these three methods has their own advantages/tradeoffs.

GPS is required for navigation IIRC because the other two are not accurate enough for that.
(but they're accurate enough to know you're near a starbucks so you can check in).

GPS acquisition is slower, consumes more power, and needs a clear view of the sky.
(but if you're trying to find a geocache, it's the only way to go).
 
2013-02-03 08:24:18 PM
It has gotten to the point that you are legally justified in opening a wiretapping lawsuit against your provider on the day you open your mobile account.
 
2013-02-04 12:45:40 AM

Rik01: On one hand, it makes their job nicer, on the other, they can't goof off and hide like they used to because the boss can pinpoint their location and see how long they've been there.

I grew up in the pen and paper era. Privacy was not only a big thing, but hard and expensive to invade. If I wanted a beer for lunch, my boss wouldn't find out. Today, he can dial in the company cell and use GPS to find out where I might be 'dining'. Even if I shut the phone off.


...so you're mad that someone's boss can find out when the employee is being paid to dick around and not do their job? OH THE HORROR.
 
2013-02-04 01:31:32 AM

narkor: I expect Google will get Wikipedia to turn out the lights, just like they did with SOPA. The whole reason for Android was that Google wanted to make sure that they could serve advertisements to and track people on their phones. That's why it's "free".


If you aren't paying for the service, you ARE the service.
 
2013-02-04 03:40:16 PM

ModernLuddite: They used to publish these books with EVERYONE'S address and phone number in them. It was horrible. You could never feel safe at home, knowing that anyone could find you.

Worse yet, they used to just give out copies of these books.


Had a friend who lost her GPS and was terrified that some crook would track down her parents in Michigan (more than 1,000 miles away) and rob them. Even reminding her about phone books (which still show up uninvited and unwanted at the doorstep) wasn't enough to calm her down.

I prefer not to be tracked. I am not a precious snowflake and do not need to have my internet experiences personalized for me by some other party.
 
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