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(Huffington Post)   Harvard study concludes that fluoride saps and impurifies your precious bodily fluids   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 162
    More: Obvious, Environmental Health Perspectives, fluorides, systematic review, fluoridation, cancer mortality rates, toxic wastes, prenatal exposure, cell death  
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11414 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Feb 2013 at 10:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-02 07:56:31 AM  
Harvard? The doctor is well-known "alternative" medicine guy criticized by just about everybody.  I'm not saying he's a quack but plenty of others have. Just Google.
 
2013-02-02 08:01:56 AM  
It's a study that's getting a lot of strange love.
 
2013-02-02 08:24:44 AM  
Serum-fluoride concentrations associated with high intakes from drinking-water may exceed 1 mg/L, or 50 Smol/L, thus more than 1000-times the levels of some other neurotoxicants that cause neurodevelopmental damage.

That's a lot of fluoride. I doubt you get that much from intentional fluoridation.
 
2013-02-02 08:41:08 AM  
*paging Jenny McCarthy*
 
2013-02-02 09:07:02 AM  
i.imgur.com

Don't say you weren't warned.
 
2013-02-02 09:29:11 AM  
It's interesting that this study doesn't even mention any of the new, growing concerns being shared by some leading researchers concerning the even more alarming health effects of fluoride, and I have to wonder whether Dr. Joseph Mercola is in the bag for someone. No mention of the possible connections between fluoridation in biomatter and spontaneous combustion? We're talking about the possible long-term effects of extreme mega-doses of fluoride upon a child's IQ, which is probably very low anyway considering kids these days, instead of looking at the very real danger of immediate death?

How many of you really understand fluoride's history after all? How many of you know that it was originally developed as nitroglycofluoride, and that for years it was one of the most stable chemical explosives available on the battlefield. During World War I, NGF bombs and artillery shells, as they were known, devastated huge swaths of the French countryside. But there was an interesting side effect to these that nobody had expected: soldiers caught on the outer periphery of a blast, soldiers who otherwise would have eventually succumbed to devastating infections in their wounds, began surviving at disproportionately high rates. Which is good if you're an injured solider, but bad if you're trying to win a war. And so the best British and American minds, along with a French mind, embarked upon a journey of exploration and discovery and discovered something shocking: fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explosions, high-quality maiming, big win.

But what to do with fluoride? How to realize its unique benefits? It wasn't long before they hit upon the idea of putting it into drinking water to help improve oral health. England in particular was experiencing a tooth crisis at the time, was down to a level of barely 5 percent of usable teeth in the entire population. With  fluoride, they reversed a long, downward trend within a span of merely three generations, and England today enjoys tooth usability rates well into the 40, 45 percent range. Other countries, too, benefited, though perhaps to not such a high degree.

But nobody knew then about radiation. See, radiation wouldn't be discovered for another few decades, at Hiroshima, and so nobody then that, while stable when removed from other chemical agents,  fluorideitself retains a very high latent flash point that is especially susceptible to radiation. And we're not even talking about huge doses of radiation like atom bombs. We're talking about latent radiation, the sort of radiation that is given off by microwaves, by airport scanners, by x-ray machines. We're talking a world in which every human being on earth has been essentially turned into a walking bomb that is merely one millirad of radiation exposure away from going off. It's happened already, numerous times. Some have suggested, in fact, that the explosion at Fukushima was fluoride-based. Is it small wonder, then, that the world government and UN have worked so hard to keep this secret?

Or maybe it's more sinister than that. Maybe they want to turn their citizens into walking fluoride bombs, so that if the citizenry ever does rise up to throw off tyranny, they can release a carefully calibrated radiation transmission, perhaps from an orbital satellite, and kill us all. It's something to think about.
 
2013-02-02 09:47:36 AM  

Pocket Ninja: It's interesting that this study doesn't even mention any of the new, growing concerns being shared by some leading researchers concerning the even more alarming health effects of fluoride, and I have to wonder whether Dr. Joseph Mercola is in the bag for someone. No mention of the possible connections between fluoridation in biomatter and spontaneous combustion? We're talking about the possible long-term effects of extreme mega-doses of fluoride upon a child's IQ, which is probably very low anyway considering kids these days, instead of looking at the very real danger of immediate death?

How many of you really understand fluoride's history after all? How many of you know that it was originally developed as nitroglycofluoride, and that for years it was one of the most stable chemical explosives available on the battlefield. During World War I, NGF bombs and artillery shells, as they were known, devastated huge swaths of the French countryside. But there was an interesting side effect to these that nobody had expected: soldiers caught on the outer periphery of a blast, soldiers who otherwise would have eventually succumbed to devastating infections in their wounds, began surviving at disproportionately high rates. Which is good if you're an injured solider, but bad if you're trying to win a war. And so the best British and American minds, along with a French mind, embarked upon a journey of exploration and discovery and discovered something shocking: fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...


I intend to check in a week and see if this has been copypasta'd at whackjorb antiscience sites.  Wonderful.
 
2013-02-02 10:06:33 AM  
That's the stuff that kills Superman, right?
 
2013-02-02 10:07:34 AM  
P. O. E.
 
2013-02-02 10:10:15 AM  

Pocket Ninja: It's interesting that this study doesn't even mention any of the new, growing concerns being shared by some leading researchers concerning the even more alarming health effects of fluoride, and I have to wonder whether Dr. Joseph Mercola is in the bag for someone. No mention of the possible connections between fluoridation in biomatter and spontaneous combustion? We're talking about the possible long-term effects of extreme mega-doses of fluoride upon a child's IQ, which is probably very low anyway considering kids these days, instead of looking at the very real danger of immediate death?

How many of you really understand fluoride's history after all? How many of you know that it was originally developed as nitroglycofluoride, and that for years it was one of the most stable chemical explosives available on the battlefield. During World War I, NGF bombs and artillery shells, as they were known, devastated huge swaths of the French countryside. But there was an interesting side effect to these that nobody had expected: soldiers caught on the outer periphery of a blast, soldiers who otherwise would have eventually succumbed to devastating infections in their wounds, began surviving at disproportionately high rates. Which is good if you're an injured solider, but bad if you're trying to win a war. And so the best British and American minds, along with a French mind, embarked upon a journey of exploration and discovery and discovered something shocking: fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...


Impressive.
 
2013-02-02 10:10:19 AM  
One of the reasons that Americans are so science-illiterate is because of reporting like this and their inability to distinguish between pseudo-science and real science.

Screw you, HuffPo.
 
2013-02-02 10:10:42 AM  
Correlation = causation = "confirmed"
Nice headline, HuffPo.
 
2013-02-02 10:10:44 AM  
Well damn, they used to feed us tablets of the sshiat, on top of the stupid rinse shiat, on top of the shiat in the water.
shiat.

I bet that's why I say shiat all the time isn't it?

And got a C in Calculus. I knew I was better than that, wtf.
basterds.

I still got cavities anyways too. What the hell man?
 
2013-02-02 10:12:39 AM  
His wikipedia entry is quite interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

To sum:  Pretty much thinks we should bring medical practices back to the 18th century.  And he has the leading website for alternative fringe 'medical' theories.

Wondering if this article was 'paid advertising' more than anything else.
 
2013-02-02 10:12:41 AM  
Well I'm convinced, I guess there needs to be a concentrated international effort to reduce naturally occurring fluoride levels down to zero because Jesus.
 
2013-02-02 10:13:08 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Or maybe it's more sinister than that. Maybe they want to turn their citizens into walking fluoride bombs, so that if the citizenry ever does rise up to throw off tyranny, they can release a carefully calibrated radiation transmission, perhaps from an orbital satellite, and kill us all. It's something to think about.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-02 10:14:01 AM  
Oh, God. I came here to scream at subby for tricking me into reading a Mercola post, but then I read Pocket Ninja's post, and it made everything worthwhile.

A gem of that quality is easily worth half an hour wasted on Merconium.
 
2013-02-02 10:14:23 AM  
So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?
 
2013-02-02 10:14:49 AM  

Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?


It's morally ambiguous.
 
2013-02-02 10:14:58 AM  
/think of the children
 
2013-02-02 10:15:16 AM  

Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?


Yes.
 
2013-02-02 10:16:11 AM  
Incidentally this 'news article' is from Huffington Post's blog section which has, from what I can tell, thousands of contributors.  This was (hopefully) not shown on the main page.
 
2013-02-02 10:16:42 AM  
Even if the government has been poisoning the population for decades, there's no real benefit in pointing it out. They'll do whatever the f*** they want to do and we'll continue to have no to limited recourse. They are completely unaccountable to us and they can poison whoever the f*** they want to poison. Go ahead and try to sue them. Go ahead and write them a sharply worded letter. You don't have a say in this government, yet this is exactly who the liberal dumbasses want to have all the power in this country.
 
2013-02-02 10:17:14 AM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's morally ambiguous.


...Damn but I have no morals... or morales... what then?
 
2013-02-02 10:18:10 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Even if the government has been poisoning the population for decades, there's no real benefit in pointing it out. They'll do whatever the f*** they want to do and we'll continue to have no to limited recourse. They are completely unaccountable to us and they can poison whoever the f*** they want to poison. Go ahead and try to sue them. Go ahead and write them a sharply worded letter. You don't have a say in this government, yet this is exactly who the liberal dumbasses want to have all the power in this country.


I applaud your trolling powers... but everyone here knows that both parties sold out "the people" a long long long time ago
 
2013-02-02 10:18:31 AM  

Mcaffolder: ...Damn but I have no morals... or morales... what then?


Then you flip a coin, friend-o.
 
2013-02-02 10:19:15 AM  

SpdrJay: That's the stuff that kills Superman, right?


No, that would be shiatty N64 games.
 
2013-02-02 10:19:49 AM  

Mcaffolder: I applaud your trolling powers... but everyone here knows that both parties sold out "the people" a long long long time ago


I don't disagree with you and I'm not trolling.
 
2013-02-02 10:20:44 AM  
I grew up in Newburgh NY, one of the first towns to have fluoridated water.

I have a Masters degree... from Harvard.

Draw your own conclusions.
 
2013-02-02 10:22:27 AM  

Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?


I think it is best to at least assume it is chaotic-neutral.
 
2013-02-02 10:22:59 AM  
Oh oh ... me me...

Is it ''Please who grow up in Newburgh, NY go to Harvard and get a Masters degree?"

I mean, correlation is more important than causation right?
 
2013-02-02 10:23:16 AM  
Yeah, and MMS will totally cure your cancer and acne at the same time, and the FDA is warning you away because they're conspiring with Big Pharma to keep it a secret (totally not because mixing it with fruit juice turns it into bleach - ignore the lies)!
 
2013-02-02 10:23:49 AM  

IntertubeUser: One of the reasons that Americans are so science-illiterate is because of reporting like this and their inability to distinguish between pseudo-science and real science.

Screw you, Myth Busters.

 
2013-02-02 10:23:53 AM  
Damn ... such a waste of a comment.  I mean 'People'
 
2013-02-02 10:24:39 AM  

IntertubeUser: One of the reasons that Americans are so science-illiterate is because of reporting like this and their inability to distinguish between pseudo-science and real science.

Screw you, HuffPo.


www.ethannonsequitur.com

Just because it needs repeating. In Mercola's case I'm not sure it's ignorance so much as his morally bankrupt drive for getting rich off of other people's ignorance.
 
2013-02-02 10:25:02 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Mcaffolder: I applaud your trolling powers... but everyone here knows that both parties sold out "the people" a long long long time ago

I don't disagree with you and I'm not trolling.


Then why the name calling? When your partie's (I assume your Republican) President was elected and served for eight years I absolutely thought the world was going to end in a fiery pit of corruption and abuse of governmental powers. I find it completely reasonable that you think the same thing when mine is elected to office.

/but yeah dont kid yourself neither really cares... campaign finance reform and term limits to congress would go a long long way....
 
2013-02-02 10:25:02 AM  

edmo: Harvard? The doctor is well-known "alternative" medicine guy criticized by just about everybody.  I'm not saying he's a quack but plenty of others have. Just Google.


FTA: "skyrocketing increase of cognitive decline in adults..."

Umm, okay sir. You're a bit "glass half empty", aren't you?
 
2013-02-02 10:26:18 AM  

St_Francis_P: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

Yes.


Correct!
In trace amounts, it provides benefits.
And then there is too much of a good thing.
The dosages in these studies are exponentially higher than what a human can ingest from drinking water at US standards.
 
2013-02-02 10:27:07 AM  
maybe you just need a great big Hg
 
2013-02-02 10:27:46 AM  
Fluoride doesn't make people stupid, people make people stupid, amirite?

/wouldn't know, lived 42 years with fluoridated water
 
2013-02-02 10:27:52 AM  

forcebender: Oh oh ... me me...

Is it ''Please who grow up in Newburgh, NY go to Harvard and get a Masters degree?"

I mean, correlation is more important than causation right?


Dingdingdingdingding! We have a winner!

/Of course, I'm fluoride damaged, so what do I know??
 
2013-02-02 10:29:37 AM  
So was that heads?

3 G's: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

I think it is best to at least assume it is chaotic-neutral.


best comment yet...
 
2013-02-02 10:31:20 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Mcaffolder: I applaud your trolling powers... but everyone here knows that both parties sold out "the people" a long long long time ago

I don't disagree with you and I'm not trolling.


It's too bad you aren't trolling, as the alternative reflects poorly on your intellect.
 
2013-02-02 10:32:48 AM  

neversummer: Pocket Ninja: It's interesting that this study doesn't even mention any of the new, growing concerns being shared by some leading researchers concerning the even more alarming health effects of fluoride, and I have to wonder whether Dr. Joseph Mercola is in the bag for someone. No mention of the possible connections between fluoridation in biomatter and spontaneous combustion? We're talking about the possible long-term effects of extreme mega-doses of fluoride upon a child's IQ, which is probably very low anyway considering kids these days, instead of looking at the very real danger of immediate death?

How many of you really understand fluoride's history after all? How many of you know that it was originally developed as nitroglycofluoride, and that for years it was one of the most stable chemical explosives available on the battlefield. During World War I, NGF bombs and artillery shells, as they were known, devastated huge swaths of the French countryside. But there was an interesting side effect to these that nobody had expected: soldiers caught on the outer periphery of a blast, soldiers who otherwise would have eventually succumbed to devastating infections in their wounds, began surviving at disproportionately high rates. Which is good if you're an injured solider, but bad if you're trying to win a war. And so the best British and American minds, along with a French mind, embarked upon a journey of exploration and discovery and discovered something shocking: fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Rea ...


Yeah Ninja's got some real talent. I've almost been suckered in a few times myself. Bravo!
 
2013-02-02 10:33:10 AM  

Mcaffolder: So was that heads?


I think it landed perfectly on its side...
 
2013-02-02 10:34:45 AM  
Larry Hund, a pediatrician and leader in the pro-fluoride group Wichitans for Healthy Teeth, said he had taken the Harvard study with a grain of salt even before the researchers acknowledged that it didn't address American fluoridated water.

"They're looking at fluoride levels 10 times what we see here in the U.S.," he said. In addition, he pointed out that most of the studies were done in China and didn't account for other factors that can influence IQ scores such as poverty, exposure to heavy metal pollution and dietary deficiencies.

He said fluoridated water has been used in the United States for about 65 years without causing noticeable problems.

"We have the best research hospitals in the world," he said. "They're in communities using fluoridated water. If something was wrong, these researchers would be waving a red flag."

He said he's passionate about the cause because he sees children in his practice - especially those whose parents can't afford much dental treatment or fluoride supplements - go through unnecessary pain that could be prevented.

"The saddest ones you see are the kids with several cavities that need to be fixed and their parents can't afford it," he said. "I think it's a shame we're withholding this from our children."

The Harvard scientists did not gather the original data for the paper they published in July, titled "Developmental Fluoride Neurotoxicity: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis."

The Harvard paper was a compilation of 27 other studies, 25 of which were done in China.

Harvard Scientists: Data on Fluoride, IQ Not Applicable In US
 
2013-02-02 10:37:49 AM  

TurdHeart: Correlation = causation = "confirmed"
Nice headline, HuffPo.


You do realize there is no ethical way to confirm a causation?

Or do you want scientists trying to retard children?

I guess you want more company.
 
2013-02-02 10:38:06 AM  

dahmers love zombie: Pocket Ninja: 
...Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Rea ...




I need to send what Pocket Ninja posted here to my Boomer-age , conspiracy-theory believing relatives....just for the lulz.

/ then again, I may be contributing to the problem....
 
2013-02-02 10:40:40 AM  
I'm no stranger to the company of women, Mandrake, but I deny them my...essence.
 
2013-02-02 10:44:06 AM  

The Smails Kid: I'm no stranger to the company of women, Mandrake, but I deny them my...essence.




IMDB says I should've checked with them before posting.
 
2013-02-02 10:45:45 AM  
In conclusion, our results support the possibility of adverse effects of fluoride exposures on children's neurodevelopment. Future research should formally evaluate dose-response relations based on individual-level measures of exposure over time, including more precise prenatal exposure assessment and more extensive standardized measures of neurobehavioral performance, in addition to improving assessment and control of potential confounders.

Doesn't sound like they concluded anything other than that there's some correlation and someone should look in to it.
 
2013-02-02 10:46:37 AM  

Rindred: Yeah, and MMS will totally cure your cancer and acne at the same time, and the FDA is warning you away because they're conspiring with Big Pharma to keep it a secret (totally not because mixing it with fruit juice turns it into bleach - ignore the lies)!


MMS?

<goes off to Google "MMS">

<goes off to google "Miracle Mineral Solution">

... o.O

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-02 10:46:58 AM  

forcebender: His wikipedia entry is quite interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

To sum:  Pretty much thinks we should bring medical practices back to the 18th century.  And he has the leading website for alternative fringe 'medical' theories.


Hang on a second. This guy's one of the few brilliant minds trying to make sure that sheeple wake up and smell the AIDS conspiracy: HIV doesn't cause AIDS. I mean, look at the letters, even. They've got, like, nothing in common. Just an I. How can 3 letters become 4, mostly different letters?
 
2013-02-02 10:47:57 AM  
*checks URL*

Huffington Post AND that nutjob Mercola? Hell farking no. Go to hell, subby.
 
2013-02-02 10:51:29 AM  

jfarkinB: Rindred: Yeah, and MMS will totally cure your cancer and acne at the same time, and the FDA is warning you away because they're conspiring with Big Pharma to keep it a secret (totally not because mixing it with fruit juice turns it into bleach - ignore the lies)!

MMS?

<goes off to Google "MMS">

<goes off to google "Miracle Mineral Solution">

... o.O

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 292x302]


I know....I did the same thing, and somehow it turned into a video of a Mom talking about curing her autistic son with Chlorine Dioxide enemas. I need a vacation from this fracking planet.
 
2013-02-02 10:52:03 AM  

TofuTheAlmighty: *checks URL*

Huffington Post AND that nutjob Mercola? Hell farking no. Go to hell, subby.




Maybe he isn't a nutjob. Maybe he's riding the tendency for some people (sadly, all too often educated people who really should know better) to believe in the naturalistic fallacy straight to an early retirement. A very well funded retirement.
 
2013-02-02 10:59:07 AM  

Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?


It's like salt. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems. A tiny amount of fluoride prevents tooth decay, too much causes brittle bones. They're trying to claim that areas with tonnes of natural fluoride present in water sources in rural China are correlated with lowered IQs by a whopping half point. I'm pretty sure the lead and mercury emitted burning fossil fuels would be a way bigger source of concern, not to mention the particulate matter blocking everyone's lungs.
 
2013-02-02 11:13:47 AM  
59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!
 
2013-02-02 11:19:25 AM  

Head_Shot: ...it turned into a video of a Mom talking about curing her autistic son with Chlorine Dioxide enemas.


He was probably just faking it and straightened up to avoid another dose of the cure.
 
2013-02-02 11:25:14 AM  

eggrolls: I grew up in Newburgh NY, one of the first towns to have fluoridated water.

I have a Masters degree... from Harvard.

Draw your own conclusions.


One of two. Either affirmative action, or mommy used bottled water.
 
2013-02-02 11:25:16 AM  

Ronin_S: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's like salt almost anything. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems.


FTFY. Even water will kill you if you drink too much at once.
 
2013-02-02 11:26:54 AM  

Ronin_S: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's like salt. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems. A tiny amount of fluoride prevents tooth decay, too much causes brittle bones. They're trying to claim that areas with tonnes of natural fluoride present in water sources in rural China are correlated with lowered IQs by a whopping half point. I'm pretty sure the lead and mercury emitted burning fossil fuels would be a way bigger source of concern, not to mention the particulate matter blocking everyone's lungs.



Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc.

It provides no such benefit if taken internally (swallowing in water food, Pepsi, Coke, beer, etc) or externally (showing, bathing, washing your hair, dog clothes car etc.)

Conversely, the RISKS associated with fluoride WHEN APPLIED TOPICALLY TO THE TEETH are minimal, whereas taking fluoride INTERNALLY can be toxic.

So we're adding fluoride to the municipal water systems... why?

Adding fluoride to municipal water systems makes as much sense as spraying sunscreen from crop dusters.
 
2013-02-02 11:27:29 AM  
But wait... if ingesting more than 10 times the amount of fluoride that is in our fluoridated water is bad... what else is the government not telling us? I've been taking 10 times the amount of blood pressure medication that I was prescribed and feeding my kids 10 times the amount of their multi-vitamins every day. Next you'll tell me that's not healthy either! Damned government,
 
2013-02-02 11:28:06 AM  
OK. We can relax now. The House That Opium Built has confirmed what sensible people have long known.

Sodium fluoride is f***ing bad for you. And drug warlords should know.
 
2013-02-02 11:29:28 AM  

Millennium: Ronin_S: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's like salt almost anything. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems.

FTFY. Even water will kill you if you drink too much at once.


HARVARD STUDY: WATER IS DEADLY
 
2013-02-02 11:29:46 AM  
Did anyone here actually read the 32 page report ( not written by Mercola )?The irony in posting the Asimov picture made me lol.
 
2013-02-02 11:36:21 AM  
Pocket Ninja:  fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...


WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap?  You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro?  Not chemicals.  As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.
 
2013-02-02 11:37:05 AM  
Fluoride is just a cover so you ignore the dihydrogen monoxide in our water systems.

www.bobbyshred.com
 
2013-02-02 11:41:03 AM  

Lolpwnt: [whoosh]


Win.
 
2013-02-02 11:46:22 AM  

jayhawk88: 59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!



Will the fluoride make the water stop smelling like sewage?

Does drinking (or bathing or showering in) fluoride confer ANY health benefit?

If not, why add fluoride?
 
2013-02-02 11:49:58 AM  
huffpo, for when fox is to reliable a source
 
2013-02-02 11:52:26 AM  

Amos Quito: jayhawk88: 59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!


Will the fluoride make the water stop smelling like sewage?

Does drinking (or bathing or showering in) fluoride confer ANY health benefit?

If not, why add fluoride?


I'm originally from Salina. I think, and Salina included, Wichita is a little late on that stupid.
 
2013-02-02 11:58:09 AM  

Lolpwnt: Pocket Ninja:  fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...

WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap?  You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro?  Not chemicals.  As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.




Well intentioned, but you went after the wrong guy. Make no mistake, there are, and will be more, people posting in this thread who deserve your contempt (I have Clemkadidlefark marked as "Insane abiogenesis guy") but Mr. Ninja is joking.
 
2013-02-02 11:59:49 AM  

Lolpwnt: Pocket Ninja:  fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...

WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap?  You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro?  Not chemicals.  As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.


PocketNinja is a known and lauded... performance artist around here.  I doubt he means anything he says, ever.
 
2013-02-02 12:04:16 PM  
I did not think Huff Po could be less credible... The Harvard studies were done in areas where high levels of fluoride naturally occur in the drinking water, not in those with added fluoride. Oddly enough, Mercola relies on those with a low IQ, as they are the ones who buy his woo.
 
2013-02-02 12:04:40 PM  

Lolpwnt: WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap? You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro? Not chemicals. As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.


Of course you're an organic chemist, what else could you be? An inorganic chemist? You can't fool me. Computers aren't that smart.

/the joke occurred to me after I hit add
//had to share
///organic slashies come in 3s
 
2013-02-02 12:20:12 PM  

Amos Quito: jayhawk88: 59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!


Will the fluoride make the water stop smelling like sewage?

Does drinking (or bathing or showering in) fluoride confer ANY health benefit?

If not, why add fluoride?


Quite possibly for the additional antimicrobial properties like the chlorine residual many places add.
 
2013-02-02 12:26:15 PM  
Me like floride. I in basement in Newburgh new york. I like yankees and pooping in dipers
 
2013-02-02 12:28:50 PM  
Dr Mercola is allowed to write articles on Huffington Post? I will no longer visit that site and now put it on par with Fox News in the retardedness.

The guy is a scam artist. Read up his wiki article or check out the bullshiat his webpage sells.

Check out this shiat

The guy is a snake oil salesman
 
2013-02-02 12:36:56 PM  

Amos Quito: Ronin_S: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's like salt. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems. A tiny amount of fluoride prevents tooth decay, too much causes brittle bones. They're trying to claim that areas with tonnes of natural fluoride present in water sources in rural China are correlated with lowered IQs by a whopping half point. I'm pretty sure the lead and mercury emitted burning fossil fuels would be a way bigger source of concern, not to mention the particulate matter blocking everyone's lungs.


Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc.

It provides no such benefit if taken internally (swallowing in water food, Pepsi, Coke, beer, etc) or externally (showing, bathing, washing your hair, dog clothes car etc.)

Conversely, the RISKS associated with fluoride WHEN APPLIED TOPICALLY TO THE TEETH are minimal, whereas taking fluoride INTERNALLY can be toxic.

So we're adding fluoride to the municipal water systems... why?

Adding fluoride to municipal water systems makes as much sense as spraying sunscreen from crop dusters.


I would have gone with "drinking sunscreen", but I get your point.

Wait...would that work?
 
2013-02-02 12:44:18 PM  

Sheseala: Amos Quito: jayhawk88: 59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!


Will the fluoride make the water stop smelling like sewage?

Does drinking (or bathing or showering in) fluoride confer ANY health benefit?

If not, why add fluoride?

Quite possibly for the additional antimicrobial properties like the chlorine residual many places add.


I've been in countries that depended on chlorine systems.  It works, and its safe, but everything tastes like pool water.
Since I live on a cistern I treat my own rain water and know it doesn't have to taste like that to be safe.

I'll wager its about avoiding the liability than anything.
No one wants a cholera outbreak on their watch, so they make sure the water is just toxic enough to be safe.

/I also wonder if there isn't some correlation = causation factor to this.
/Communities that can afford better systems can afford better schools, etc...
 
2013-02-02 12:45:54 PM  

machoprogrammer: Dr Mercola is allowed to write articles on Huffington Post? I will no longer visit that site and now put it on par with Fox News in the retardedness.


You're just realizing this now?
 
2013-02-02 12:49:35 PM  

Lolpwnt: Pocket Ninja:  fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...

WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap?  You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro?  Not chemicals.  As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.


i93.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-02 12:54:15 PM  

Jormungandr: Lolpwnt: Pocket Ninja:  fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...

WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap?  You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro?  Not chemicals.  As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.

PocketNinja is a known and lauded... performance artist around here.  I doubt he means anything he says, ever.


Yup.  Favorite him in a unique color and move on with your day.

/PocketNinja will always be light blue to me...
 
2013-02-02 12:58:39 PM  

Amos Quito: jayhawk88: 59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!


Will the fluoride make the water stop smelling like sewage?

Does drinking (or bathing or showering in) fluoride confer ANY health benefit?

If not, why add fluoride?




Your post leaves us in a bit of a quandary. Either you are smarter than the scientists who work for the CDC, or you are able to see through the smokescreen, and peek into that vast conspiracy that is the "real" reason they are advocating the intentional fluoridation of drinking water.
 
2013-02-02 01:00:24 PM  
Huh, the "good old days" (from the linked paper, emphasis added): At the beginning of the 20th century, extensive dental caries was common in the United States and in most developed countries (2). No effective measures existed for preventing this disease, and the most frequent treatment was tooth extraction. Failure to meet the minimum standard of having six opposing teeth was a leading cause of rejection from military service in both world wars (3,4). Pioneering oral epidemiologists developed an index to measure the prevalence of dental caries using the number of decayed, missing, or filled teeth (DMFT) or decayed, missing, or filled tooth surfaces (DMFS) (5) rather than merely presence of dental caries, in part because nearly all persons in most age groups in the United States had evidence of the disease. Application of the DMFT index in epidemiologic surveys throughout the United States in the 1930s and 1940s allowed quantitative distinctions in dental caries experience among communities--an innovation that proved critical in identifying a preventive agent and evaluating its effects.
 
2013-02-02 01:04:39 PM  
Whenever I hear of someone pining for the simple life of the nineteenth century, I just ask them about what they think a trip to the dentist was like back then. Assuming you lived anywhere close to one. I've had an abscessed tooth, and the pain was intense; luckily, I was able to get antibiotics and NSAIDS, and get a root canal fairly quickly. Imagine that pain for days or weeks.
 
2013-02-02 01:13:35 PM  
Get rid of fluoride immediately!  Dentists everywhere need more of your money.
 
2013-02-02 01:20:55 PM  
The study was pertaining to children exposed to waters polluted with extreme levels of fluoride, either through naturally occurring groundwater or through industrial pollution.

The amount of fluoride you get from municipal water fluoridation comes nowhere close to the levels necessary to actually do you any harm.
 
2013-02-02 01:24:38 PM  
The hodge-podge of units makes me crazy.  What is an Smol?  And ppm has always annoyed me; sometimes it's by mass and sometimes it's by mole.
 
2013-02-02 01:30:20 PM  

portnoyd: machoprogrammer: Dr Mercola is allowed to write articles on Huffington Post? I will no longer visit that site and now put it on par with Fox News in the retardedness.

You're just realizing this now?


I was never aware they were that bad. I actually would say it is worse than Fox News.
 
2013-02-02 01:31:53 PM  
So the next time people try and criticize creationists for their pseudoscience nonsense, they'll be able to point to this article and say "See?  Both sides are bad!".

Thanks for nothing, HuffPost
 
2013-02-02 01:35:33 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Jormungandr: Lolpwnt: Pocket Ninja:  fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...

WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap?  You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro?  Not chemicals.  As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.

PocketNinja is a known and lauded... performance artist around here.  I doubt he means anything he says, ever.

Yup.  Favorite him in a unique color and move on with your day.

/PocketNinja will always be light blue to me...


He is orange for me. I would make him plaid if I could.
 
2013-02-02 01:40:10 PM  

spacelord321: Did anyone here actually read the 32 page report ( not written by Mercola )?The irony in posting the Asimov picture made me lol.


It's easier to be smugly condescending than to actually read the report.
 
2013-02-02 01:56:11 PM  
www.downandnerdy.org
 
2013-02-02 02:04:53 PM  

Repo Man: Amos Quito: jayhawk88: 59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!


Will the fluoride make the water stop smelling like sewage?

Does drinking (or bathing or showering in) fluoride confer ANY health benefit?

If not, why add fluoride?

Your post leaves us in a bit of a quandary. Either you are smarter than the scientists who work for the CDC,



Had you read my previous post, you would have seen that I said "Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc."

Nothing in the CDC doc you cited contradicts that statement.

Water.

We drink it, we bathe in it, we cook with it, we water our plants with it, wash our clothes with it, we flush out toilets with it.

The theory is that adding fluoride to ALL THAT WATER will prevent dental caries. What percentage of that actually comes into contact with the dental surfaces, supposedly serving the INTENDED PURPOSE of water fluoridation?

Far more water (and fluoride) passes through your gut and into your system than makes contact with the teeth.

"Over the teeth, past the gums, look out stomach, here it comes"!


From MedScape:


Pathophysiology

Fluoride has several mechanisms of toxicity. Ingested fluoride initially acts locally on the intestinal mucosa. It can form hydrofluoric acid in the stomach, which leads to GI irritation or corrosive effects. Following ingestion, the GI tract is the earliest and most commonly affected organ system.

Once absorbed, fluoride binds calcium ions and may lead to hypocalcemia. Fluoride has direct cytotoxic effects and interferes with a number of enzyme systems; it disrupts oxidative phosphorylation, glycolysis, coagulation, and neurotransmission (by binding calcium). Fluoride inhibits Na+/K+ -ATPase, which may lead to hyperkalemia by extracellular release of potassium. Fluoride inhibits acetylcholinesterase, which may be partly responsible for hypersalivation, vomiting, and diarrhea (cholinergic signs). Seizures may result from both hypomagnesemia and hypocalcemia. Severe fluoride toxicity will result in multiorgan failure. Central vasomotor depression as well as direct cardiotoxicity also may occur. Death usually results from respiratory paralysis, dysrhythmia, or cardiac failure.

END QUOTE

Of course these are at large doses, but the POINT is that while fluoride may be dandy for TOPICAL APPLICATION, it is NOT BENEFICIAL in ANY AMOUNT when taken internally.

Quite the contrary.
 
2013-02-02 02:10:43 PM  
i1102.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-02 02:17:54 PM  

Amos Quito: Repo Man: Amos Quito: jayhawk88: 59% of Wichita voters rejected putting fluoride in the cities water supply. In 2012.

Yeah, but it's the fluoride that will make us stupid. Nevermind the fact that the tap water starts smelling like sewage several times a month around here. OMG FLUORIDE!


Will the fluoride make the water stop smelling like sewage?

Does drinking (or bathing or showering in) fluoride confer ANY health benefit?

If not, why add fluoride?

Your post leaves us in a bit of a quandary. Either you are smarter than the scientists who work for the CDC,


Had you read my previous post, you would have seen that I said "Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc."

Nothing in the CDC doc you cited contradicts that statement.

Water.

We drink it, we bathe in it, we cook with it, we water our plants with it, wash our clothes with it, we flush out toilets with it.

The theory is that adding fluoride to ALL THAT WATER will prevent dental caries. What percentage of that actually comes into contact with the dental surfaces, supposedly serving the INTENDED PURPOSE of water fluoridation?

Far more water (and fluoride) passes through your gut and into your system than makes contact with the teeth.

"Over the teeth, past the gums, look out stomach, here it comes"!


From MedScape:


Pathophysiology

Fluoride has several mechanisms of toxicity. Ingested fluoride initially acts locally on the intestinal mucosa. It can form hydrofluoric acid in the stomach, which leads to GI irritation or corrosive effects. Following ingestion, the GI tract is the earliest and most commonly affected organ system.

Once absorbed, fluoride binds calcium ions and may lead to hypocalcemia. Fluoride has direct cytotoxic effects and interferes with a number of enzyme systems; it disrupts oxidative phosphorylation, glycolysis, coagulation, and neurotransmission (by binding calcium). Fl ...


The CDC are all for water fluoridation, that is what contradicts your point. Apparently, they recognize benefits that outweigh any potential downside. Why do you think you are smarter than the CDC? Or, alternately, what hidden agenda does the CDC have that you do not? Are the CDC evil or stupid?
 
2013-02-02 02:42:14 PM  
So if a loony guy references a report by Harvard, that report is now as loony as the guy who referenced it???
 
2013-02-02 02:57:41 PM  

spacelord321: Did anyone here actually read the 32 page report ( not written by Mercola )?The irony in posting the Asimov picture made me lol.


knobmaker: spacelord321: Did anyone here actually read the 32 page report ( not written by Mercola )?The irony in posting the Asimov picture made me lol.

It's easier to be smugly condescending than to actually read the report.


Whodat: So if a loony guy references a report by Harvard, that report is now as loony as the guy who referenced it???


I'm a skeptic, I understand the value of questioning what we've been told. The study itself found "The standardized weighted mean difference in IQ score between exposed and reference populations was -0.45 (95% confidence interval: -0.56, -0.35)."  Furthermore: "The exposed groups had access to drinking water with fluoride concentrations up to 11.5 mg/L (Wang SX et al. 2007); thus, in many cases concentrations were above the levels recommended (0.7-1.2 mg/L; DHHS) or allowed in public drinking water (4.0 mg/L; U.S. EPA) in the United States"

Taken together those two statements that come verbatim from "actually reading the report" tell me that a shiat-ton more fluoride than is allowed in our drinking water is associated with half a point of IQ difference when the data was pooled from 27 different studies. Even if this difference was found at the levels allowable in the US water, I'd be thrilled to trade half a point of my IQ to keep all my teeth in my head.
 
2013-02-02 02:59:43 PM  

Occam's Disposable Razor: Even if this difference was found at the levels allowable in the US water, I'd be thrilled to trade half a point of my IQ to keep all my teeth in my head.


AND that's assuming causation. When you're living in an area in China with heavily contaminated drinking water, I'm guessing there are more things working against your health and IQ than can be adequately controlled for in the statistical analysis.
 
2013-02-02 03:11:06 PM  
Dear Mr. President,

There is too much fluoride in the water. Please replace it with lithium.

P.S. I am not a crackpot.
 
2013-02-02 03:40:29 PM  

Amos Quito: Ronin_S: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's like salt. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems. A tiny amount of fluoride prevents tooth decay, too much causes brittle bones. They're trying to claim that areas with tonnes of natural fluoride present in water sources in rural China are correlated with lowered IQs by a whopping half point. I'm pretty sure the lead and mercury emitted burning fossil fuels would be a way bigger source of concern, not to mention the particulate matter blocking everyone's lungs.


Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc.

It provides no such benefit if taken internally (swallowing in water food, Pepsi, Coke, beer, etc) or externally (showing, bathing, washing your hair, dog clothes car etc.)

Conversely, the RISKS associated with fluoride WHEN APPLIED TOPICALLY TO THE TEETH are minimal, whereas taking fluoride INTERNALLY can be toxic.

So we're adding fluoride to the municipal water systems... why?

Adding fluoride to municipal water systems makes as much sense as spraying sunscreen from crop dusters.


It may come as a surprise to you that water is usually drunk orally.

The original discovery was that places with naturally occurring fluoride IN THE WATER had lower rates of tooth decay.
 
2013-02-02 03:43:15 PM  
Gwuuuuhhh? A bunch of woo on HuffPo? Must be a day ending in y
 
2013-02-02 03:50:39 PM  
Good points, Occam. I am working so I have not read the report, and in all honesty, probably won't. I just came in to hear the usual crowd talk about the virtues of the scientific method, and then watch them throw it out the window. I was not disappointed. Unrelated, but how the fark do I get my htmail buttons back? I hit the "Use HTML Buttons" and it just reloads the page with no effect. Using a galaxy tab on full site, if that has anything to do with it. Seems I can't use enter to create new lines either, or quote.
 
2013-02-02 03:54:35 PM  

Repo Man: Whenever I hear of someone pining for the simple life of the nineteenth century, I just ask them about what they think a trip to the dentist was like back then. Assuming you lived anywhere close to one. I've had an abscessed tooth, and the pain was intense; luckily, I was able to get antibiotics and NSAIDS, and get a root canal fairly quickly. Imagine that pain for days or weeks.


The thought of dental surgery without anesthetic is enough to make me thankful that I live when I do.
 
2013-02-02 04:08:29 PM  
I wonder if this piece of Dr. Mercola's advice is any more reliable than his claim that the coconut oil he once sold through his website reduced the risk of heart disease.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
 
2013-02-02 04:19:10 PM  
for my local supply

Fluoride
0.7 mg/L
Naturally occurring and water additive, MCL = 4.0 mg/L
 
2013-02-02 04:22:13 PM  

spacelord321: I just came in to hear the usual crowd talk about the virtues of the scientific method, and then watch them throw it out the window. I was not disappointed.


I agree with this. Shouting down the other side without any evidence should be left for those who truly don't have any evidence, and I hate to see a solid position weakened when people do that. That said, critical appraisal of research and journal articles is part of my job, so I'm aware that I probably have a bigger stick up my ass about that than most people.

/got no help to offer for your html troubles though, sorry
 
2013-02-02 04:49:39 PM  
Thanks all the same.
 
2013-02-02 04:59:03 PM  

Snort: The My Little Pony Killer: Jormungandr:
PocketNinja is a known and lauded... performance artist around here.  I doubt he means anything he says, ever.

Yup.  Favorite him in a unique color and move on with your day.

/PocketNinja will always be light blue to me...

He is orange for me. I would make him plaid if I could.


Actually... I prefer not to favorite Pocket Ninja.

Not because I don't enjoy the bizarre ramblings... but because I enjoy the surprise!

Sometimes, I'm just scanning through the posts. Minding my own business. I'll start reading a post. The first paragraph typically invites me in. The next intrigues me... makes me want to read more. It typically contains things that I hadn't read before, yet seem so truthy. The third, which is starting to get kind of "out there" still interests me because it almost... almost seems plausible. At this point, since I'm often reading on a smartphone, the name "Pocket Ninja" scrolls up and out of view... so that even my subconscious cannot warn me. Then... I have my "Wait a farkin' minute" moment. Scroll back up... yell "goddammitsomuch" much to the chagrin of all in the room.

I'd miss all that if I favorited Pocket Ninja. Therefore, I will not. I can not.
 
2013-02-02 05:03:49 PM  
Yep, mostly what I expected in this thread, including Jenny McCarty reference.  Mr. Amos Quito seems like the most rational out of the whole lot.

Amos Quito: Of course these are at large doses, but the POINT is that while fluoride may be dandy for TOPICAL APPLICATION, it is NOT BENEFICIAL in ANY AMOUNT when taken internally.

Quite the contrary.


I began to question this fluoridation of the water some time back.  On TFD I get pigeonholed as a loon.
 
2013-02-02 05:08:08 PM  

Snarfangel: Dear Mr. President,

There is too much fluoride in the water. Please replace it with lithium.

P.S. I am not a crackpot.


Come down here to El Paso,  plenty of lithium in the water
 
2013-02-02 05:09:46 PM  
Zamboni: had the same moment at the beginning of the second paragraph. I'm all like "this has PNs' sigature all over it"... checked... "Yep!". I don't favorite him for the exact same reason.
 
2013-02-02 05:14:24 PM  
Tuna Fingers : I advise you not to look into the Jenny McCarthy thread currently ongoing.
 
2013-02-02 05:18:03 PM  

tuna fingers: Yep, mostly what I expected in this thread, including Jenny McCarty reference.  Mr. Amos Quito seems like the most rational out of the whole lot.

Amos Quito: Of course these are at large doses, but the POINT is that while fluoride may be dandy for TOPICAL APPLICATION, it is NOT BENEFICIAL in ANY AMOUNT when taken internally.

Quite the contrary.

I began to question this fluoridation of the water some time back.  On TFD I get pigeonholed as a loon.


Once again the CDC: are they stupid, or are they evil? Why would this public health agency advocate for water fluoridation if there were not sound evidence in favor of it? Are you willing to trust the CDC on most issues, but just not this one? Are you willing to trust them on any issues?

There are other matters about which experts are not agreed. Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. Einstein's view as to the magnitude of the deflection of light by gravitation would have been rejected by all experts not many years ago, yet it proved to be right. Nevertheless the opinion of experts, when it is unanimous, must be accepted by non-experts as more likely to be right than the opposite opinion.- Bertrand Russell
 
2013-02-02 05:18:11 PM  
connect the dots when it comes to the skyrocketing increase of cognitive decline in adults and behavioral issues in children

and here I was thinking 4chan was to blame.
 
2013-02-02 05:21:04 PM  
Tuna Fingers : I own land in Carson, NM, but have been stuck in PA for a few years now, so I am jealous. Most of the best people I've ever met are out there. ; )
 
2013-02-02 05:31:01 PM  
Repo Man:
Once again the CDC: are they stupid, or are they evil? Why would this public health agency advocate for water fluoridation if there were not sound evidence in favor of it? Are you willing to trust the CDC on most issues, but just not this one? Are you willing to trust them on any issues?

LOL.

From  http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/pdf/pollick.pdf:

The Institute of Medicine, Food and Nutrition Board 
has estimated that the tolerable upper limit for human 
daily intake of fluoride is 10 mg per day for adults and 
children over 8 years of age.

 
Not what I'd call a ringing endorsement.  But further:

water fluoridation could accurately 
be described as environmentally friendly, as it maxi
mizes the use made of these natural resources, and 
reduces waste.


So that's it.  Follow the money.  There is big money to be made by turning a toxic waste into something allegedly beneficial to society.  I don't buy it.
 
2013-02-02 05:38:42 PM  

tuna fingers: Repo Man:
Once again the CDC: are they stupid, or are they evil? Why would this public health agency advocate for water fluoridation if there were not sound evidence in favor of it? Are you willing to trust the CDC on most issues, but just not this one? Are you willing to trust them on any issues?

LOL.

From  http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/pdf/pollick.pdf:

The Institute of Medicine, Food and Nutrition Board 
has estimated that the tolerable upper limit for human 
daily intake of fluoride is 10 mg per day for adults and 
children over 8 years of age.
 
Not what I'd call a ringing endorsement.  But further:

water fluoridation could accurately 
be described as environmentally friendly, as it maxi
mizes the use made of these natural resources, and 
reduces waste.

So that's it.  Follow the money.  There is big money to be made by turning a toxic waste into something allegedly beneficial to society.  I don't buy it.


So you feel that water fluoridation is a scam perpetrated on the US by government colluding with big business? That is extremely paranoid, and would require extraordinary evidence to be believed. LOL does not come anywhere close to cutting it.

I would speculate that there would be far more money to be made by individual dentists treating the cavities and other dental health problems caused by the lack of fluoridation.
 
2013-02-02 05:42:09 PM  
I would say that people should research the science behind this, but I don't particularly like any of you fark people. So I have been flushing fluoride from my body and feel great for it. I don't recommend any of you do it. You deserve to be cancer-ridden, alzheimers casualties.
 
2013-02-02 05:49:02 PM  

Proximuscentauri: I would say that people should research the science behind this, but I don't particularly like any of you fark people. So I have been flushing fluoride from my body and feel great for it. I don't recommend any of you do it. You deserve to be cancer-ridden, alzheimers casualties.


You'll get better results if you go in via the rectum. Trust me on this, I'm a professional.
 
2013-02-02 05:54:51 PM  
Apparently, Fluoride;

Makes politicians lie and represent only money.
Makes Business Execs and BODs into completely amoral sociopathic money grubbers.
Makes the "I Made Myself Rich, All By Myself" group squirrel their wealth offshore to avoid any benefit to society.
Makes minor asshat "officials" completely senseless robots to higher authority.
Makes the Sheeple swallow any old crap. "A spoonfull of honey makes the" You know earworms?
 
2013-02-02 05:56:33 PM  

Lolpwnt: Pocket Ninja:  fluoride, while highly explosive when combined with certain other chemicals like nitro and glyco, also had properties that made it very beneficial to human tissue, particularly bones and teeth.

Can you imagine their shock? It was like when they'd discovered penicillin by accident, those early, happy years before they'd learned about how penicillin causes impotence. And so they did some quick retinkering to the  nitroglycofluoride formula, pulled out the fluoride and replaced it with cerin, and presto! Really good explo ...

WTF kind of "baffle them with bullshiat" pseudo-chemistry is this crap?  You probably fall for all the "quantum healing through science!" type infomercial stuff don't you?

Cerin, glyco, nitro?  Not chemicals.  As an organic chemist I weep for humanity when this complete bullshiat is accepted as truth by anyone.


You just got owned, dude.
 
2013-02-02 06:01:25 PM  

Repo Man: So you feel that water fluoridation is a scam perpetrated on the US by government colluding with big business? That is extremely paranoid, and would require extraordinary evidence to be believed. LOL does not come anywhere close to cutting it.

I would speculate that there would be far more money to be made by individual dentists treating the cavities and other dental health problems caused by the lack of fluoridation.


For the record, Continental Europe has ceased water fluoridation.
Our family does not drink tap water anymore.  I lug around 5 gallon jugs back and forth.

You?  You do what you will.
 
2013-02-02 06:10:54 PM  

cherryl taggart: Get rid of fluoride immediately! Dentists everywhere need more of your money.

 
Dentists are like accountants, they don't want their work to be any more difficult than it already is.


Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?


I tend to think along these lines.  Anything commonly present in the environment is likely not that bad in normal amounts and a complete absence may be unhealthy.  There is usually some fluoride in water.  Sea water contains more fluoride than fluoridated water, then consider that's what we lived in for three billion years before our distant ancestors crawled out onto dry land.
 
2013-02-02 06:29:45 PM  
So that's why they kept telling me to stop eating the tubes of toothpaste...
 
2013-02-02 06:36:20 PM  

Repo Man: Huh, the "good old days" (from the linked paper, emphasis added): At the beginning of the 20th century, extensive dental caries was common in the United States and in most developed countries (2). No effective measures existed for preventing this disease, and the most frequent treatment was tooth extraction. Failure to meet the minimum standard of having six opposing teeth was a leading cause of rejection from military service in both world wars (3,4).



Funny that they made no mention of rejection from service during the Vietnam war - and widespread fluoridation of municipal water wasn't in effect until the late '50's early '60's.

Might there have been SOME OTHER factor(s) that played a role in the decline of dental caries during the 40's and 50's? You know, things like higher awareness of oral hygiene, greater access to regular dental care, MORE PEOPLE BRUSHING THEIR TEETH regularly?

No, it had to be the industrial waste being dumped into the water supply. Right?
 
2013-02-02 06:42:46 PM  

Matthew Keene: eggrolls: I grew up in Newburgh NY, one of the first towns to have fluoridated water.

I have a Masters degree... from Harvard.

Draw your own conclusions.

One of two. Either affirmative action, or mommy used bottled water.


Neither - horribly middle class upbringing for this white boy, and bottled water wasn't a thing in the 60s.

On the other hand, I've never had a cavity in my life.
 
2013-02-02 06:53:43 PM  

Oznog: Amos Quito: Ronin_S: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's like salt. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems. A tiny amount of fluoride prevents tooth decay, too much causes brittle bones. They're trying to claim that areas with tonnes of natural fluoride present in water sources in rural China are correlated with lowered IQs by a whopping half point. I'm pretty sure the lead and mercury emitted burning fossil fuels would be a way bigger source of concern, not to mention the particulate matter blocking everyone's lungs.


Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc.

It provides no such benefit if taken internally (swallowing in water food, Pepsi, Coke, beer, etc) or externally (showing, bathing, washing your hair, dog clothes car etc.)

Conversely, the RISKS associated with fluoride WHEN APPLIED TOPICALLY TO THE TEETH are minimal, whereas taking fluoride INTERNALLY can be toxic.

So we're adding fluoride to the municipal water systems... why?

Adding fluoride to municipal water systems makes as much sense as spraying sunscreen from crop dusters.


It may come as a surprise to you that water is usually drunk orally.

The original discovery was that places with naturally occurring fluoride IN THE WATER had lower rates of tooth decay.



USGS:  "Estimates vary, but each person uses about 80-100 gallons of water per day"

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/qa-home-percapita.html


All of it fluoridated. How much of that do you actually drink? Of course any food or beverage manufacturing company that is located on a fluoridated system and uses water (soft drinks, beer, fruit juice (from concentrate), canned foods, etc) ALSO add to your fluoride intake.

I have no qualms about the potential benefits of fluoride APPLIED TOPICALLY, but it seems to me that fluoridating water is a piss-poor method, AND it exposes us (especially infants and neonates) to potential hazards.

For those of you who think adding the DRUG fluoride to water is a dandy idea, what OTHER DRUGS should we be adding?

Thorazine, perhaps?
 
2013-02-02 06:56:19 PM  

spacelord321: Tuna Fingers : I own land in Carson, NM, but have been stuck in PA for a few years now, so I am jealous. Most of the best people I've ever met are out there. ; )


When you come back, give me a jingle.  I'll get a beer with you.
 
2013-02-02 06:58:46 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Fluoride is just a cover so you ignore the dihydrogen monoxide in our water systems.

[www.bobbyshred.com image 381x378]


but if they ban dihydrogen monoxide?  what will we drink?  toilet water?? eww
 
2013-02-02 07:13:31 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Fluoride is just a cover so you ignore the dihydrogen monoxide in our water systems.

[www.bobbyshred.com image 381x378]

but if they ban dihydrogen monoxide?  what will we drink?  toilet water?? eww



www.brawndo.com

NOW WITH FLUORIDE!!!


/Actually it always had fluoride
 
2013-02-02 07:47:30 PM  
So, is this "fluoridation is a conspiracy to let companies dump toxic waste" really a thing? Do people actually believe that corporations, faced with all the legal and illegal alternatives available for dumping a hazardous byproduct, would choose to get rid of it by carefully metering it out bit by bit into water supplies?
 
2013-02-02 08:06:26 PM  

jfarkinB: So, is this "fluoridation is a conspiracy to let companies dump toxic waste" really a thing? Do people actually believe that corporations, faced with all the legal and illegal alternatives available for dumping a hazardous byproduct, would choose to get rid of it by carefully metering it out bit by bit into water supplies?



No, they sell it to municipalities, who then carefully meter it out, bit by bit, into our water supplies.

Material Safety Data Sheet Sodium fluoride MSDS

State of New Jersey Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet


Cheers!
 
2013-02-02 08:25:04 PM  
Tuna Fingers : sounds lika plan. Favorited you in chili green. Till then, see you on the interwebs.
 
2013-02-02 09:24:33 PM  

fitzhume: Millennium: Ronin_S: Mcaffolder: So wait.... is fluoride bad or good?

It's like salt almost anything. A little bit will help, too much and you've got problems.

FTFY. Even water will kill you if you drink too much at once.

HARVARD STUDY: WATER IS DEADLY


Water: Not Even Once
 
2013-02-02 09:49:01 PM  
Master Shake: Plaque is a figment of the liberal media and the dental industry to scare you into buying useless appliances and pastes. Now, I've heard the arguments on both sides, and there is nothing to convince me of the need to brush your teeth.

Master Shake: I got rid of my teeth at a young age because... I'm straight. Teeth are for gay people. That's why fairies come and get them.

Master Shake: [Meatwad and Shake are surfing the net on the plaque conspiracy] Hush! Be quiet or you'll damage the search engine.
Meatwad: Oh, gee, I forgot! I'm sorry...
Master Shake: Well, I'M sorry but if you don't cooperate somebody's gonna have their mouth stabbed shut with skewers!
[insanely]
: And then we shall see how well the ax slices through the meat!
 
2013-02-02 10:38:11 PM  

Amos Quito: jfarkinB: So, is this "fluoridation is a conspiracy to let companies dump toxic waste" really a thing? Do people actually believe that corporations, faced with all the legal and illegal alternatives available for dumping a hazardous byproduct, would choose to get rid of it by carefully metering it out bit by bit into water supplies?


No, they sell it to municipalities, who then carefully meter it out, bit by bit, into our water supplies.

Material Safety Data Sheet Sodium fluoride MSDS

State of New Jersey Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet

Cheers!


They put chlorine in our water too.  That substance is so deadly (in sufficient amounts) that it was used as a poison gas during World War I.  Run for the hills!

The only disease that fluoridated water is known to have caused in the United States during the past ~60 years is paranoia among some credulous types.
 
2013-02-03 12:32:36 AM  

tirob: The only disease that fluoridated water is known to have caused in the United States during the past ~60 years is paranoia among some credulous types.


I'm pretty sure that was a preexisting condition.

It's funny, oxidation states.  Fluorine, Chlorine, Bromine, and Iodine when ionized are pussycats. When not, nasty nasty nasty.
 
2013-02-03 01:02:15 AM  

machoprogrammer: Dr Mercola is allowed to write articles on Huffington Post? I will no longer visit that site and now put it on par with Fox News in the retardedness.

The guy is a scam artist. Read up his wiki article or check out the bullshiat his webpage sells.

Check out this shiat

The guy is a snake oil salesman


HuffPo is one of the worst sites for anti-science garbage.  Not only because of the hippy crystal energy acupuncture homeopathy nonsense they promote, but because they are otherwise a legit news source and have a lot of "power" to fool people.
 
2013-02-03 02:16:23 AM  
the Europeans were right about amalgam fillings
they are most likely right about fluoridation
 
2013-02-03 07:28:21 AM  

zepillin: the Europeans were right about amalgam fillings
they are most likely right about fluoridation


That's not much of an argument.
 
2013-02-03 11:19:32 AM  

Amos Quito: jfarkinB: So, is this "fluoridation is a conspiracy to let companies dump toxic waste" really a thing? Do people actually believe that corporations, faced with all the legal and illegal alternatives available for dumping a hazardous byproduct, would choose to get rid of it by carefully metering it out bit by bit into water supplies?


No, they sell it to municipalities, who then carefully meter it out, bit by bit, into our water supplies.

Material Safety Data Sheet Sodium fluoride MSDS

State of New Jersey Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet

Cheers!


And why, pray tell, don't they sell all their other hazardous byproducts to municipalities?

Oh, that's right -- there's a market for this one, because it has well-established uses as a beneficial water treatment. Sort of like chlorine, which, as another poster pointed out, is even more acutely deadly in high concentrations.

One of the major goals of large-scale (and even small-scale) production is the reduction and repurposing of waste. It just so happens that this waste is particularly useful. Sort of like the animal feces that you wouldn't want to ingest in concentrated form, but are apparently perfectly okay as part of an organic-farming regimen.
 
2013-02-03 11:30:32 AM  

Repo Man: zepillin: the Europeans were right about amalgam fillings
they are most likely right about fluoridation

That's not much of an argument.


The statement is about the arguer"s
CDC, AMA, ADA are not reliable sources of studies/information
Universities especially the European"s have a much better track record
 
2013-02-03 12:24:51 PM  

zepillin: Repo Man: zepillin: the Europeans were right about amalgam fillings
they are most likely right about fluoridation

That's not much of an argument.

The statement is about the arguer"s
CDC, AMA, ADA are not reliable sources of studies/information
Universities especially the European"s have a much better track record


<i>Citation needed.</i> You're giving me an argument from authority.
 
2013-02-03 12:34:22 PM  
I remember reading a thread in a chemtrails forum once, where someone actually had the perseverance to go into the lion's den, and try to talk sense to those conspiracy nuts. Dismissing his arguments, once of them said about him "I bet you believe the HIV causes AIDS too!", as though that would be a death knell to any credibility he had. You just can't reach some people.
 
2013-02-03 12:57:30 PM  

tuna fingers: spacelord321: Tuna Fingers : I own land in Carson, NM, but have been stuck in PA for a few years now, so I am jealous. Most of the best people I've ever met are out there. ; )

When you come back, give me a jingle.  I'll get a beer with you.


Las Cruces Fark party? Can I come?
 
2013-02-03 01:56:37 PM  

Repo Man: zepillin: Repo Man: zepillin: the Europeans were right about amalgam fillings
they are most likely right about fluoridation

That's not much of an argument.

The statement is about the arguer"s
CDC, AMA, ADA are not reliable sources of studies/information
Universities especially the European"s have a much better track record

<i>Citation needed.</i> You're giving me an argument from authority.


A citation is not needed
it's in your face if you have any real interest
and I'm not giving you an argument

I'm stating an opinion of likelyhood based on past performance"s .
 
2013-02-03 02:20:33 PM  
i.e. if in your life experience you've found their information accurate and helpful I won't argue the point
My experience has differed. In my life, I have found their information/opinions to be deceitful and harmful.
Maliciously false actually
 
2013-02-03 02:46:46 PM  
that was dumb but really
Don't tell me there's been few if any studies and it's safe when all I have to do is google and there are hundreds of mostly European studies, mostly saying the same thing (amalgam, twenty years or so ago).
and the health concern is actually already banned in those counties

getting the mercury out of my mouth was dramatic health mile stone for me
as for fluoride I like having a functional pineal gland, but that's just me
most don't use it much or appreciate it's significance so no big loss anyway
 
2013-02-03 03:16:56 PM  

tirob: Amos Quito: jfarkinB: So, is this "fluoridation is a conspiracy to let companies dump toxic waste" really a thing? Do people actually believe that corporations, faced with all the legal and illegal alternatives available for dumping a hazardous byproduct, would choose to get rid of it by carefully metering it out bit by bit into water supplies?


No, they sell it to municipalities, who then carefully meter it out, bit by bit, into our water supplies.

Material Safety Data Sheet Sodium fluoride MSDS

State of New Jersey Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet

Cheers!

They put chlorine in our water too.  That substance is so deadly (in sufficient amounts) that it was used as a poison gas during World War I.  Run for the hills!

The only disease that fluoridated water is known to have caused in the United States during the past ~60 years is paranoia among some credulous types.



A Quantitative Look at Fluorosis, Fluoride Exposure, and Intake in Children Using a Health Risk Assessment Approach

Published in Environmental Health Perspectives  (a publication of the National Institutes of Health)

Above is a link to a study that examines cumulative fluoride intake from various sources, and concludes that infants and children (in particular) are being OVEREXPOSED to fluoride - especially in communities that have fluoridated water. The primary SYMPTOM of this overexposure is fluorosis - mottling of the color of the teeth. But given the other potential negative health effects of overexposure to fluoride, I stress that this fluorosis is only a SYMPTOM, and that that it calls for us to consider whether other physical and neurological damage may be occurring.

Read the study, and let me know what you think, tirob.

Or don't.

/Sometimes ignorance is bliss
 
2013-02-03 05:11:28 PM  

zepillin: that was dumb but really
Don't tell me there's been few if any studies and it's safe when all I have to do is google and there are hundreds of mostly European studies, mostly saying the same thing (amalgam, twenty years or so ago).
and the health concern is actually already banned in those counties

getting the mercury out of my mouth was dramatic health mile stone for me
as for fluoride I like having a functional pineal gland, but that's just me
most don't use it much or appreciate it's significance so no big loss anyway


Mehh, all my teeth w/ fillings have broken off or been pulled.
No real diff, same old dickhead.
 
2013-02-03 07:08:56 PM  

Amos Quito: tirob: Amos Quito: jfarkinB: So, is this "fluoridation is a conspiracy to let companies dump toxic waste" really a thing? Do people actually believe that corporations, faced with all the legal and illegal alternatives available for dumping a hazardous byproduct, would choose to get rid of it by carefully metering it out bit by bit into water supplies?


No, they sell it to municipalities, who then carefully meter it out, bit by bit, into our water supplies.

Material Safety Data Sheet Sodium fluoride MSDS

State of New Jersey Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet

Cheers!

They put chlorine in our water too.  That substance is so deadly (in sufficient amounts) that it was used as a poison gas during World War I.  Run for the hills!

The only disease that fluoridated water is known to have caused in the United States during the past ~60 years is paranoia among some credulous types.


A Quantitative Look at Fluorosis, Fluoride Exposure, and Intake in Children Using a Health Risk Assessment Approach

Published in Environmental Health Perspectives  (a publication of the National Institutes of Health)

Above is a link to a study that examines cumulative fluoride intake from various sources, and concludes that infants and children (in particular) are being OVEREXPOSED to fluoride - especially in communities that have fluoridated water. The primary SYMPTOM of this overexposure is fluorosis - mottling of the color of the teeth. But given the other potential negative health effects of overexposure to fluoride, I stress that this fluorosis is only a SYMPTOM, and that that it calls for us to consider whether other physical and neurological damage may be occurring.

Read the study, and let me know what you think, tirob.

Or don't.

/Sometimes ignorance is bliss


I did read it.  I stand by what I wrote.

From the study: "Therefore, one approach [to reducing the risk of fluorosis] could be implementation of measures to reduce fluoride intake from sources other than water in communities where tap water is fluoridated. The risk management for fluorosis in these communities could focus on preparation of infant formula for infants and ingestion of toothpaste for children. This finding emphasizes the significance of educating parents and child-care specialists about fluorosis risk by public health practitioners, physicians, and dentists. The fluorosis risk can easily be reduced by supervising children while brushing and by preparing infant formula with nonfluoridated water or purchase of infant formula constituted without fluoride."

Emphasis added.

Translation:  See that your kids don't swallow their toothpaste.  And don't give tap water to infants.  But we all knew that already.

There is no question that fluoride is dangerous if it is ingested in large quantities.  If a kid swallowed half a tube of toothpaste, I think it would be a good idea to take it to a hospital and have its stomach pumped.  But I see no evidence in this study that would lead me to believe the small quantities of the stuff that are put into our tap water constitute a menace.  In this context, note that the people who wrote the study repeatedly refer to other studies that suggest that fluoridated water is beneficial when it comes to reducing tooth decay.  And if you don't think that tooth decay was a serious public health problem in the good old days before fluoridated water, think again.  Among the secondary effects of tooth decay were such things as gum infections and malnutrition.  And there were plenty of occasions when people died of shock at the dentist's while having their teeth pulled.

From the study:  "In nonfluoridated communities, fluorosis prevalence reported in a number of studies conducted during 1990-2000 ranged from 3 to 45%."

That's quite a range.  Could it be that a lot of people, even in communities with fluoridated tap water, are getting fluorosis from something other than that water?
 
2013-02-03 07:45:15 PM  

Amos Quito: Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc.

It provides no such benefit if taken internally (swallowing in water food, Pepsi, Coke, beer, etc) or externally (showing, bathing, washing your hair, dog clothes car etc.)

Conversely, the RISKS associated with fluoride WHEN APPLIED TOPICALLY TO THE TEETH are minimal, whereas taking fluoride INTERNALLY can be toxic.

So we're adding fluoride to the municipal water systems... why?

Adding fluoride to municipal water systems makes as much sense as spraying sunscreen from crop dusters.


I've repeatedly linked you scientific studies that show a large increase in fluoride levels in saliva for 30-60 minutes after drinking a glass of fluoridated water, which is nearly as effective as brushing your teeth (not quite, because it won't dislodge big chunks of junk that can fester). Drink multiple glasses throughout the day, and it's a similar effect to repeatedly brushing. Similarly, no adverse health effects have been found in older children and adults at the levels in US drinking water; a couple of case studies of areas with very abnormally high natural fluoridation are the only ones that show any effects at all. At standard levels, it can only affect infants and toddlers, to the best of anyone's knowledge. (And due to that, I withhold complete approval of it, because I've never known anyone with an infant in a fluoridated area who knew that. Agencies are terrible about getting the info out and parents are worse at absorbing it.)

But for some reason, in every thread on the subject you come back in and start over with the claim that "It provides no such benefit if taken internally." You are the worst kind of troll.
 
2013-02-03 11:08:14 PM  

foxyshadis: Amos Quito: Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc.

It provides no such benefit if taken internally (swallowing in water food, Pepsi, Coke, beer, etc) or externally (showing, bathing, washing your hair, dog clothes car etc.)

Conversely, the RISKS associated with fluoride WHEN APPLIED TOPICALLY TO THE TEETH are minimal, whereas taking fluoride INTERNALLY can be toxic.

So we're adding fluoride to the municipal water systems... why?

Adding fluoride to municipal water systems makes as much sense as spraying sunscreen from crop dusters.

I've repeatedly linked you scientific studies that show a large increase in fluoride levels in saliva for 30-60 minutes after drinking a glass of fluoridated water, which is nearly as effective as brushing your teeth (not quite, because it won't dislodge big chunks of junk that can fester). Drink multiple glasses throughout the day, and it's a similar effect to repeatedly brushing. Similarly, no adverse health effects have been found in older children and adults at the levels in US drinking water; a couple of case studies of areas with very abnormally high natural fluoridation are the only ones that show any effects at all. At standard levels, it can only affect infants and toddlers, to the best of anyone's knowledge. (And due to that, I withhold complete approval of it, because I've never known anyone with an infant in a fluoridated area who knew that. Agencies are terrible about getting the info out and parents are worse at absorbing it.)

But for some reason, in every thread on the subject you come back in and start over with the claim that "It provides no such benefit if taken internally." You are the worst kind of troll.



I did not see the posts that you CLAIM to have made, but I did some research, and it turns out that you are correct: Fluoride swallowed passes through the gut, into the entire system, and is SO PREVALENT that it is excreted through the SALIVARY glands to once again bathe the teeth in all of its Jeeebus Blessed Holy Goodness.

Why does this NOT increase my confidence in the SAFETY of fluoride?

Any guesses?

Hmmm?

I was wrong.

You were right.


Unfortunately, this is NOT good news.

Thanks all the same, friend.


/Excuse my sarcasm
//Drunk on beer
///Fluoridated beer

Relax and have a can of fluoridated soup with your fluoridated macaroni and cheese dinner, friend

/It's got what plants CRAVE
 
2013-02-03 11:10:41 PM  

foxyshadis: Amos Quito: Fluoride is only useful for its intended purpose (remineralizing the teeth) when applied TOPICALLY, as in ON YOUR TEETH, as in toothpaste, mouth rinse, etc.

It provides no such benefit if taken internally (swallowing in water food, Pepsi, Coke, beer, etc) or externally (showing, bathing, washing your hair, dog clothes car etc.)

Conversely, the RISKS associated with fluoride WHEN APPLIED TOPICALLY TO THE TEETH are minimal, whereas taking fluoride INTERNALLY can be toxic.

So we're adding fluoride to the municipal water systems... why?

Adding fluoride to municipal water systems makes as much sense as spraying sunscreen from crop dusters.

I've repeatedly linked you scientific studies that show a large increase in fluoride levels in saliva for 30-60 minutes after drinking a glass of fluoridated water, which is nearly as effective as brushing your teeth (not quite, because it won't dislodge big chunks of junk that can fester). Drink multiple glasses throughout the day, and it's a similar effect to repeatedly brushing. Similarly, no adverse health effects have been found in older children and adults at the levels in US drinking water; a couple of case studies of areas with very abnormally high natural fluoridation are the only ones that show any effects at all. At standard levels, it can only affect infants and toddlers, to the best of anyone's knowledge. (And due to that, I withhold complete approval of it, because I've never known anyone with an infant in a fluoridated area who knew that. Agencies are terrible about getting the info out and parents are worse at absorbing it.)

But for some reason, in every thread on the subject you come back in and start over with the claim that "It provides no such benefit if taken internally." You are the worst kind of troll.



BTW, you want cyanide with that?

Because cyanide definitely kills lice, and as we know, lice can cause typhus, and typhus is what killed Anne Frank.

/And Helen  Keller
//And Liberace
///And Ariel Sharon
 
2013-02-03 11:27:06 PM  
Afraid of fluoridated water, but perfectly fine with water with alcohol in it? Alcohol is a very dangerous chemical, and causes far more problems than fluoride. Here you are, complaining about trace amounts of fluoride, and poisoning your brain and liver with alcohol.
 
2013-02-03 11:42:45 PM  

Repo Man: Afraid of fluoridated water, but perfectly fine with water with alcohol in it? Alcohol is a very dangerous chemical, and causes far more problems than fluoride. Here you are, complaining about trace amounts of fluoride, and poisoning your brain and liver with alcohol.



Yeah.

And this from a guy with the Fark handle "Repo Man"

You're a good karma magnet, dude.

/Farking magnets!
//How do they work???
///Very well, thank you
 
2013-02-04 12:36:34 AM  

Amos Quito: Repo Man: Afraid of fluoridated water, but perfectly fine with water with alcohol in it? Alcohol is a very dangerous chemical, and causes far more problems than fluoride. Here you are, complaining about trace amounts of fluoride, and poisoning your brain and liver with alcohol.


Yeah.

And this from a guy with the Fark handle "Repo Man"

You're a good karma magnet, dude.

/Farking magnets!
//How do they work???
///Very well, thank you


Ever been to Utah? Ra-di-a-tion. Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you. Pernicious nonsense. Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year. They ought to have them, too. When they canceled the project it almost did me in. One day my mind was full to bursting. The next day - nothing. Swept away. But I'll show them. I had a lobotomy in the end.
 
2013-02-04 06:51:51 AM  
Amos Quito: fluorosis - mottling of the color of the teeth. But given the other potential negative health effects of overexposure to fluoride


http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html
For your education on the subject of fluorosis, and some history on how fluoridation got started.
 
2013-02-04 07:07:11 AM  
http://www.salon.com/2009/07/30/huffington_post/

Article that suggests that any health advice in Huffpo should be taken with a grain of NaCl.
 
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