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(The Atlantic)   Boy Scouts of America: "Oh alright, the gays can join, as long as they're not godless heathens"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 78
    More: Asinine, Boy Scouts of America, atheist groups, religious discrimination, atheists, gays, Human Rights Campaign  
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10339 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2013 at 6:29 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-01 05:55:18 PM  
11 votes:
Any organization that needs me to profess belief in a higher power, whether it be scouts or Alcoholic Anonymous. is not something I want to be a part of any way.


Unless, they offer steep discounts at local bars, then I would be willing to lie about my disbelief, for a couple of rounds.
2013-02-01 06:39:26 PM  
8 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-02-01 06:59:47 PM  
5 votes:
2013-02-01 06:45:12 PM  
4 votes:
I was a Boy Scout for most of my adolescence. Eventually made to Life Scout (one rank below Eagle).

A couple years ago I went to volunteer to assist,as a way to give back to an organization that gave me so much. I used to love all the camping we did and things we learned. Plus, out of everyone I still know from my youth, almost all of them are my fellow Scouts. Well, I'm not sure why it didn't dawn on me, but I forgot that they don't allow atheists to join (which I became later in life). It was a sad phone to get from the local Scout Master, especially when the night before I got out all my old Scout stuff to look at.


/Life Scout
//Order of the Arrow
///Woodsmen
////Multiple merit badges and patches for extreme weather and terrain camping

i234.photobucket.com
2013-02-01 06:37:45 PM  
4 votes:
I was a boyscout as a teen - even made eagle scout. I am and always have been an atheist. the troop I was with was, at least at the time, very secular. I remember god being part of the scout oath - but I always thought of it as god is also mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. I always omitted that part while in school and in scouts. figured it was optional. actually, I didn't even realize the boy scouts were considered "christian" until very late during my time there, which was right around when the whole no gays thing began....late 90's I believe. just was never a big part of what was discussed during meetings or on camping trips. the scouts were a good experience and even though I plan on raising my kids as atheists as well, I won't hesitate to let them sign up for boy/cub scouts.
2013-02-01 06:09:31 PM  
4 votes:
it's a start...
2013-02-01 08:25:28 PM  
3 votes:
It's funny that the Girl Scouts don't have this same issue. They let in everyone, because they want ALL girls to grow to be strong women, not just the "right" girls. Of course, that might be because the Mormons haven't taken over GSUSA, likely because Mormons don't want strong women.
2013-02-01 06:39:35 PM  
3 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Reverent


rev·er·ent
/ˈrev(ə)rənt/

Adjective
Feeling or showing deep and solemn respect: "a reverent silence".

Synonyms
respectful - deferential - reverential

I can get behind reverent as described here.
2013-02-01 06:30:58 PM  
3 votes:

Ennuipoet: Any organization that needs me to profess belief in a higher power, whether it be scouts or Alcoholic Anonymous. is not something I want to be a part of any way.


Unless, they offer steep discounts at local bars, then I would be willing to lie about my disbelief, for a couple of rounds.


Guess you'll never get to join the Masons then.
2013-02-01 08:45:39 PM  
2 votes:
Ask a Christian about why God allows innocent children to starve to death while unleashing random disasters that slaughter as many if not more of his own followers than those of other religions and non-believers.
Watch as they either tie themselves into knots with explanations of "free will" and "original sin", or dismiss you with "It's God's will/all part of God's plan".
Roll your eyes and wonder why people need so hard to believe in magical beings that simply love everyone and everything but will bring down unspeakable torture to all who they dislike.
2013-02-01 08:11:57 PM  
2 votes:

varmitydog: cptjeff: The ordeal and ceremonies are just kind of a side item to give it an air of mystery and make it seem like more of a thing than it is. It's really just an excuse to hang out with a bunch of older and more serious scouts and leaders from other troops on a regular basis, which is fun. There aren't any negatives other than the ordeal, which is basically a ritualistic day of mild labor, and you only do it once.

Wow, that sort of sucks. I went through my OA ritual at Beech Mountain Boy Scout camp near Livingstone Manor, NY in the early 70's. The initial ceremony was done in front of a crowd, and the older scout giving you the three hits was a ham that got carried away and really wailed on you. The old guy running it was a no nonsense ex marine who had been a POW in the Korean war, and he loved to fail the candidates, he really got off on it. I found out later that he made bets with the CIT's on how many he could disqualify. They woke us up at dawn and marched us two miles to build steps with handsaws and shovels up a steep hill to a new camp, then in the afternoon took us to the dining hall to scrub the floors on our hands and knees while they were slow cooking meat in the kitchen. I actually started to drool involuntarily, like a dog, smelling it. All during the day they would try to get us to say something, mostly by trickery. We started with 11 guys and finished with 7. When they had the second ceremony swearing you in you really felt like you had done something.


This experience was indicative of many "Tap-Out" ceremonies until the 90s.  They are now called "Call-Out" ceremonies and no one is supposed to wail on your collar bone.  The poster before was referring to the Ordeal, not the Tap Out / Call Out.
2013-02-01 07:43:21 PM  
2 votes:

cptjeff: Wait, there are troops that took the popcorn seriously?


Wayyyy back when I was in(Life, no OA) we sold fertilizer and lawn bags, paid for our summer backpacking trips in CO,MO,NM, ect.

Now one kid just bridged from weebelo to scouts, and my wife is our youngest's den mother.

I'm atheist, she's pagan, we do not bring it up.
2013-02-01 07:31:17 PM  
2 votes:
img2.etsystatic.com


There's you answer right there.
2013-02-01 07:07:28 PM  
2 votes:
When I was a scout, my troop just didn't care about any kind of discrimination.  We had atheists, gays, and people from all walks of life in our ranks (this was the early 90s).  Many troops still don't - part of the problem is that extremely conservative members of a particular religious group basically seized control of the highest-ranking decision-making central bureaucracy, and handed these sorts of "commandments" down from that high place.

The Boy Scouts - when you strip away that bigotry - is a good organization, promoting good values.  Ask anyone who's actually gone all the way to Eagle (or beyond - yay palms!); they'll tell you that the discrimination and such is entirely meaningless in comparison to the humility and sense of responsibility that it instills in you.

Unfortunately, it seems that the core, decision-making part of the organization is rotten.  It saddens me to think that it may not be salvageable, but I really don't see any way to do it, other than to wait for the bigots to die out (which is likely to take several more generations).

/ Eagle Scout.
// OA initiate, and yes, OA is a cult.
2013-02-01 07:03:48 PM  
2 votes:
I was a member of two local troops, and neither of them beat us over the head with the bible.  I imagine that is probably not the case in the south/midwest.

/Eagle scout
//Ended up on FARK nevertheless.
2013-02-01 06:56:00 PM  
2 votes:

Lumber Jack Off: I was a boyscout as a teen - even made eagle scout. I am and always have been an atheist. the troop I was with was, at least at the time, very secular. I remember god being part of the scout oath - but I always thought of it as god is also mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. I always omitted that part while in school and in scouts. figured it was optional. actually, I didn't even realize the boy scouts were considered "christian" until very late during my time there, which was right around when the whole no gays thing began....late 90's I believe. just was never a big part of what was discussed during meetings or on camping trips. the scouts were a good experience and even though I plan on raising my kids as atheists as well, I won't hesitate to let them sign up for boy/cub scouts.


It's changed.

Many troops may as well be Mormon recruitment camps.
2013-02-01 06:50:02 PM  
2 votes:

xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.


to be precise, Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't specifically about homosexuality but wickedness in general and being rude to guests in specific.   If you read the story,Lot tried to placate the crowd by offering to let them bone the shiat out of his daughters but they refused.

Still not about rape, and, yeah, Lot's a bit of a chode here too,
2013-02-01 06:46:27 PM  
2 votes:

KangTheMad: Meh, I was in Boy Scouts and athiest. Big deal.


I know a few that were... even when they were on their way to getting their Eagle Scout badges.

The national organization has far less power over the individual councils and troops than the media would lead someone to believe.
2013-02-01 06:44:45 PM  
2 votes:

xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.


Sodom and Gomorrah was because they did not show hospitality to guests - the form of that inhospitality is secondary or tertiary to the issue.  In the same way, we generally do not say your crime was carpentry when you nail someone's head to a wall
2013-02-01 06:37:16 PM  
2 votes:
its a step in the right direction.
2013-02-01 06:36:13 PM  
2 votes:
"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God "

Riiiiiight.
2013-02-01 06:33:29 PM  
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: fusillade762: Boy scouting is a religion.

No it's not. Don't be an ass.


Being an ass is a religion.
2013-02-01 11:24:19 PM  
1 votes:

Keizer_Ghidorah: TerminalEchoes: xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.

Because gays are far better at pissing and moaning when the rest of the country isn't coddling them.

Because treating them as human beings and American citizens = "coddling" them. Did you also get annoyed at those uppity negroes and women wanting to be treated equally?


Uh, no. But nice try. I'm talking about X person saying "homosexuality is against my beliefs" and the gay community morphs that into "X person hates gay people and wants to see them slaughtered," then they proceed to demonstrate and riot until their butthurt little hinies get kissed and powdered.
2013-02-01 10:52:17 PM  
1 votes:

netgamer7k: It won't be long until people into pedophilia and bestiality will be asking for rights.

I'm just gonna walk away when someone says, "What's wrong with somebody choosing to marry their dog?" or "Why should he (50 year old man) not have his right to marry a 12 year old girl he loves?"


Ah, the slippery slope fallacy. How droll.

KrispyKritter: one more time: What's stopping you people from forming Gays and Lesbian Scouts of America? sad truth in boy Boy and girl Scouts is there are damn few parents & guardians that want to get involved with their children's activities. Start your own thing, don't wait for some folks you don't even care for to ask you to join their reindeer games, you idiots.


Ah, separate but equal. How droll.
2013-02-01 10:18:17 PM  
1 votes:

xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.


Because gays are far better at pissing and moaning when the rest of the country isn't coddling them.
2013-02-01 08:59:33 PM  
1 votes:

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Mike Chewbacca: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Mike Chewbacca: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Boo hoo, not every organization on earth is something we qualify to join.  Let's whine until they change their rules because our feelings are hurt!

There's a difference between qualifying and "we don't let your kind in." But you knew that already.

Not really, you subscribe to their way of life, or you don't.  If you don't like it, don't whine like a little biatch and start your own club instead.

So how does a black person subscribe to a white person's way of life?

Skin color isn't a way of life.  I'd say nice try, but it really wasn't.


What "way of life" does a gay 10 year old have that's so different from a straight kid's life? He's just little kid who wants to join Scouts.
2013-02-01 08:54:02 PM  
1 votes:

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Mike Chewbacca: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Mike Chewbacca: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Boo hoo, not every organization on earth is something we qualify to join.  Let's whine until they change their rules because our feelings are hurt!

There's a difference between qualifying and "we don't let your kind in." But you knew that already.

Not really, you subscribe to their way of life, or you don't.  If you don't like it, don't whine like a little biatch and start your own club instead.

So how does a black person subscribe to a white person's way of life?

Skin color isn't a way of life.  I'd say nice try, but it really wasn't.


Neither is being gay, but you already knew that. Maybe you can prove it's a choice and a lifestyle by declaring yourself to be gay tomorrow and change every aspect of your behavior and way of life. Make sure you record it as proof, including all the gay sex you have.
2013-02-01 08:40:50 PM  
1 votes:

coeyagi: Marine1: coeyagi: varmitydog: cptjeff: The ordeal and ceremonies are just kind of a side item to give it an air of mystery and make it seem like more of a thing than it is. It's really just an excuse to hang out with a bunch of older and more serious scouts and leaders from other troops on a regular basis, which is fun. There aren't any negatives other than the ordeal, which is basically a ritualistic day of mild labor, and you only do it once.

Wow, that sort of sucks. I went through my OA ritual at Beech Mountain Boy Scout camp near Livingstone Manor, NY in the early 70's. The initial ceremony was done in front of a crowd, and the older scout giving you the three hits was a ham that got carried away and really wailed on you. The old guy running it was a no nonsense ex marine who had been a POW in the Korean war, and he loved to fail the candidates, he really got off on it. I found out later that he made bets with the CIT's on how many he could disqualify. They woke us up at dawn and marched us two miles to build steps with handsaws and shovels up a steep hill to a new camp, then in the afternoon took us to the dining hall to scrub the floors on our hands and knees while they were slow cooking meat in the kitchen. I actually started to drool involuntarily, like a dog, smelling it. All during the day they would try to get us to say something, mostly by trickery. We started with 11 guys and finished with 7. When they had the second ceremony swearing you in you really felt like you had done something.

This experience was indicative of many "Tap-Out" ceremonies until the 90s.  They are now called "Call-Out" ceremonies and no one is supposed to wail on your collar bone.  The poster before was referring to the Ordeal, not the Tap Out / Call Out.

Pssh. Mic-O-Say basically wedgies you.

/KC's Heart of America council... the leader in "OA on steroids"

Yeah, they are the exception.  That isn't even the OA, is it?  I just heard about them this year.  Sounds like they take ...


It's a separate organization. It's based out of Camp Geiger (Pony Express Council in St. Joseph) and H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation (Heart of America Council, KC). The OA program is out of Camp Naish in Bonner Springs.

I'm in both, and Mic-O-Say is definitely harder and more involved. I really mean it... they offer funerals and weddings. It's gone mostly untouched by the Snowflake movement of the 90s. It's nothing that would leave you with trauma, though.
2013-02-01 08:30:53 PM  
1 votes:

I should be in the kitchen: So it looks like I'll continue only supporting the Girl Scouts, then.

Good for the gays for gaining acceptance (sort of), but the Boy Scouts are still stuck in a 1950s America that never really existed. It's actually pretty interesting to me how the two organizations have handled modernization so differently.


Mormons don't want strong girls growing into strong, independent women. They want baby machines.
2013-02-01 08:30:35 PM  
1 votes:

coeyagi: I am betting you were at the 1993 Jamboree. That was the only one I was at. And Bubba did skip out (I think because of the gay thing too, if I recall).


2005. I'm a tad younger than you, I'm afraid. Bush was supposed to be at the opening, but they decided not to fly Shrub in, and cancelled the event due to the heat. He came for the closing, and our SPL got to be on the stage. But at the opening that wound up being cancelled, they wouldn't let you bring in water, which ended so well in 90+ degree, extremely humid weather. They were throwing bottled water and people were fighting over it like tee shirts at sports game. And of course, a few hundred people got heatstroke. Complete and utter clusterfark, though they learned their lesson for the closing ceremony.


coeyagi: They did have hot showers at AP Hill at some point, but now at The Summit, cold showers again.


What, in the staff area?
2013-02-01 08:28:50 PM  
1 votes:
So it looks like I'll continue only supporting the Girl Scouts, then.

Good for the gays for gaining acceptance (sort of), but the Boy Scouts are still stuck in a 1950s America that never really existed. It's actually pretty interesting to me how the two organizations have handled modernization so differently.
2013-02-01 08:28:23 PM  
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Mike Chewbacca: No, I'm not. lawlz is an ass. I was just making a snarky response

Ok cool. Snarky responses are cool, supporting trolls isn't. And yea, it's sad, and that shiat (the cover-ups) usually happen in organizations with the most respect to lose (see: Catholic Church/Penn State).

The saddest part is if they just kicked them out immediately and prosecuted, they'd be seen as heroes. You can't know a person you're about to hire is a sick pedo if they've never been caught, but you sure as hell can deal with it the right way once it's found out.


Yep. My family has a strong history of Scouting. I've got my grandfather's scout backpack (I never wear it; it's uncomfortable as hell). It just sucks to see such an awesome organization go down the wrong path (ie, ban gays and atheists). ALL boys should have access to Scouts.
2013-02-01 08:17:57 PM  
1 votes:

randomjsa: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and... Reverent.

I may not like the BSA, but asking them to be non-religious is a bit stupid. It would be like asking a charity to be.. non-charitable.


From teh Wikipedias:
In contrast to the Christian-only Boys' Brigade, which started two decades earlier, Robert Baden-Powell founded the Scout movement as a youth organisation (with boys as 'Scouts' and girls as 'Guides'), which was independent of any single faith or religion, yet still held that spirituality and a belief in a higher power were key to the development of young people.

When I joined in the 80's, it was Jesus this and Jesus that and Mormon indoctrination at every turn. I lasted two weeks then decided I couldn't stand it any longer.
2013-02-01 08:11:15 PM  
1 votes:

madgonad: In the American social order, the only thing lower than atheists are pedophiles.
[www.theblaze.com image 530x361]


Hey, at least we're more popular with Republicans than Muslims. So there's that.
2013-02-01 08:09:38 PM  
1 votes:
cptjeff: The ordeal and ceremonies are just kind of a side item to give it an air of mystery and make it seem like more of a thing than it is. It's really just an excuse to hang out with a bunch of older and more serious scouts and leaders from other troops on a regular basis, which is fun. There aren't any negatives other than the ordeal, which is basically a ritualistic day of mild labor, and you only do it once.

Wow, that sort of sucks. I went through my OA ritual at Beech Mountain Boy Scout camp near Livingstone Manor, NY in the early 70's. The initial ceremony was done in front of a crowd, and the older scout giving you the three hits was a ham that got carried away and really wailed on you. The old guy running it was a no nonsense ex marine who had been a POW in the Korean war, and he loved to fail the candidates, he really got off on it. I found out later that he made bets with the CIT's on how many he could disqualify. They woke us up at dawn and marched us two miles to build steps with handsaws and shovels up a steep hill to a new camp, then in the afternoon took us to the dining hall to scrub the floors on our hands and knees while they were slow cooking meat in the kitchen. I actually started to drool involuntarily, like a dog, smelling it. All during the day they would try to get us to say something, mostly by trickery. We started with 11 guys and finished with 7. When they had the second ceremony swearing you in you really felt like you had done something.
2013-02-01 07:56:14 PM  
1 votes:
The gay one was easy - there is nothing programmatic about sexuality in Scouting, so in all honesty, it's amazing (ok, not really) that it wasn't removed earlier.

The great rub though of Scouting is that faith and religion are all over the program, though emphasis of such is very diverse depending on the troop.  My troop didn't look the other way but they did kinda the bare minimum to address faith in the program.

But the bigger issue is not the program but the charter organizations.  If you make faith optional in the program, you might have a decent shot at retaining a good portion of the charter organizations.  If you remove it completely - they're f*cked for quite awhile.
2013-02-01 07:54:24 PM  
1 votes:
I've never understood the whole "higher power" concept. Does gravity count? How about the weak nuclear force?
2013-02-01 07:46:50 PM  
1 votes:

cptjeff: GF named my left testicle thundercles: KangTheMad: GF named my left testicle thundercles: [i1172.photobucket.com image 500x642]
i was a boy scout and an atheist. from my experience, religion isnt a big part of the boyscouts. in fact i have never considered it be a religious organization and i dont recall any religious tone. i dont know where this article is coming from. i also dont understand all the recent hate for it. its a great organization and should be able to do what it feels is best for the development of young men that wish to participate.

The nut-wing religious folk got their paws on the decision-making seats and have been pushing for known homosexuals to be kicked out. This led to a den mother being kicked out for being lesbian, and the internet sorta went off like a bomb.

women are allowed in the boy scouts? since when? i thought that it was a purely fraternal organization

Women are allowed in as leaders. And den leader is cub scouts, not boy scouts.


If they fight hard enough they can get into regular Boy Scouts too. One of my old friend's insane sister threatened to sue if they didn't allow her to join (thank god it wasn't our troop). She was also in OA. She's one of those who believes that women can AND MUST do everything better (not equal, but better) than a man. The belief was shattered when her femur was shattered after challenging a 6th degree blackbelt (male of course) in a Karate Tournament because she wanted to prove how tough she was. One hard kick and she was on the mat. Still crazy, but at least she doesn't go around purposely antagonizing people.
2013-02-01 07:46:16 PM  
1 votes:
Fark the Boy Scouts. It's a worthless organization. Does *anybody* who joins the Boy Scouts get anything out of it? It's a weird little club where you do weird little activities. I've never understood it. Nobody I know understands the appeal.
2013-02-01 07:42:45 PM  
1 votes:
Eagle Scout.  Had a good experience with scouts.  Lots of camping, hiking, rafting.

There is one thing though... they're not getting a penny from me until they stop discriminating against gays/atheists.
2013-02-01 07:41:48 PM  
1 votes:

ShawnDoc: Guess you'll never get to join the Masons then.


The Masons require belief in a supreme being.

upload.wikimedia.org
2013-02-01 07:37:08 PM  
1 votes:
All the other Cubmasters get a chuckle and give me a thumbs-up when we have to say the oath.

My proudest moment was when they all vowed to walk away from the org if they were ever asked to turn away someone based on their sexual orientation or religious beliefs.
2013-02-01 07:36:27 PM  
1 votes:

lawlz: Why would they openly allow pedophiles to join, let alone lead?


zenster.net
2013-02-01 07:36:18 PM  
1 votes:

CruJones: My scout troop was awesome.  We went backpacking, and rafting, and camping on the Outer Banks, and all sorts of cool stuff.  I don't recall ever talking about religion except maybe a prayer once or twice, and we didn't have to wear the lame uniforms except in meetings, not in public or camping like some do.  We did some community service but it was always kind of fun.

/molestation-free too!


Closest I ever came to seeing molestation was seeing the occasional scoutmaster from another troop shirtless at camp. With the physical condition of some of those scoutmasters, that'll scar you for life, but I never heard of it happening, or even whispers of it.

Now, the Catholic Church I grew up going to, on the other hand... Well, one of the priests was moved to a parish across the country, we'll just say that. There were some pretty loud whispers on that one.

\Family left the Church a few years later, but it wasn't related to that.
2013-02-01 07:33:16 PM  
1 votes:

KangTheMad: GF named my left testicle thundercles: [i1172.photobucket.com image 500x642]
i was a boy scout and an atheist. from my experience, religion isnt a big part of the boyscouts. in fact i have never considered it be a religious organization and i dont recall any religious tone. i dont know where this article is coming from. i also dont understand all the recent hate for it. its a great organization and should be able to do what it feels is best for the development of young men that wish to participate.

The nut-wing religious folk got their paws on the decision-making seats and have been pushing for known homosexuals to be kicked out. This led to a den mother being kicked out for being lesbian, and the internet sorta went off like a bomb.


women are allowed in the boy scouts? since when? i thought that it was a purely fraternal organization
2013-02-01 07:21:14 PM  
1 votes:
Anyone else here go to Ransburg? That was my favorite place to go in Indiana.

Also, glad to see more OotA folks:
i234.photobucket.com
2013-02-01 07:19:48 PM  
1 votes:
neppyman:
/ Eagle Scout.
// OA initiate, and yes, OA is a cult.


Could someone explain the Order of the Arrow bullshiat? When I was in scouts they required a nomination each year, and I was the only one in our small group who was of age to do it. They all told me I would be nominated and I told them I wouldn't do it, no matter what. The only reason I could give was that someone told me I had to go into the woods all day and night with no food and set up shelter and in Washington State that meant 40 degree or less and pouring rain. No thanks.

So the camping trip came, and they have this big whole stupid ceremony you  have to do. You stand in a big circle with the initiates all over the state and a Native American guy in the center talks about it. They give each of you an arrow, and then there is a portion where they say something like "If you do not wish to tread this path, lay down your arrows and none shall be judged." threw the arrow down and left.

Unfortunately, they didn't count on anyone doing that. Because no one had done that in twenty YEARS of the order of the arrow happening. I was able to leave, but because of how "secret" it was I ended up getting blocked by two Order of the Arrow posts outside the ceremony to keep anyone from entering. One was this dickhole scoutmaster who COULD NOT BELIEVE I declined such an honor. On my personal escort back to camp, I was told what a failure I was, how no one had ever declined, what a disgrace to scouting I was, etc etc.

My scoutmaster and leaders were totally cool, and after the trip that dude had serious issues. But what the fark? Why is order of the arrow such a big screaming deal? What did I thankfully miss out on?
2013-02-01 07:16:30 PM  
1 votes:

GF named my left testicle thundercles: [i1172.photobucket.com image 500x642]
i was a boy scout and an atheist. from my experience, religion isnt a big part of the boyscouts. in fact i have never considered it be a religious organization and i dont recall any religious tone. i dont know where this article is coming from. i also dont understand all the recent hate for it. its a great organization and should be able to do what it feels is best for the development of young men that wish to participate.


The nut-wing religious folk got their paws on the decision-making seats and have been pushing for known homosexuals to be kicked out. This led to a den mother being kicked out for being lesbian, and the internet sorta went off like a bomb.
2013-02-01 07:15:03 PM  
1 votes:

Rush Mountmore: I went up through Eagle and I'm an atheist. The religious element isn't too bad, and you just have to lie a little to finish. I loved all the camping and outdoors trips we did.

/many of us were atheist.
//probably why our troop had no problems


My troop met in a church, and until one new assistant scoutmaster came in a few years before I got my eagle, the only mention of religion I ever heard was people getting the knot if they wanted to. There was one meeting where he went off about gays, and as the most senior scout at the meeting, I wound up taking him down a few pegs, though there were certainly a few uncomfortable people there. And no, it wasn't the kind of screaming you're probably imagining. It was just a calm, pointed, and logical cross examination. But it made the point quite well.

His son was probably one of the more uncomfortable people there- he was a closet liberal. I knew, but I'm pretty sure his dad didn't.

LDM90: When I went to the sign up meeting for my kid, I never even got to the atheist and gay part. What turned me off was the money-grubbing. That goddamn popcorn. It was run like a business and I heard very little about what the boys would be doing. Felt like a timeshare pitch.


Wait, there are troops that took the popcorn seriously? Ours always regarded it as a pathetic attempt to mime the girl scouts' fundraising model with a vastly inferior product that we had to participate in because the council required it.
2013-02-01 07:12:50 PM  
1 votes:
i1172.photobucket.com
i was a boy scout and an atheist. from my experience, religion isnt a big part of the boyscouts. in fact i have never considered it be a religious organization and i dont recall any religious tone. i dont know where this article is coming from. i also dont understand all the recent hate for it. its a great organization and should be able to do what it feels is best for the development of young men that wish to participate.
2013-02-01 07:12:37 PM  
1 votes:
the Boy decided he wanted to join Cub Scouts.  we had a little talk about religion and how the BSA didn't appreciate atheism.  so when it got to the sign-off from the religious leader and saying the prayer every day, i signed it (hey, i was ordained by the Universal Life Church).  for the prayer, he memorized the chorus to Rush's "Free Will" and recited it for 30 days, just like he was supposed to.  i was asked to be an officer in the group of dens (forgot the name and title), in which i served honorably like a good Dad.  after a while the Boy said he was tired of lying about religion.  he quit Scouting, but was a member of the Civil Air Patrol for several years.
2013-02-01 07:12:22 PM  
1 votes:

TheRealist II: Just another group of individuals who just want to move on in and hijack someone elses group due to being to lazy and incompetent to create a group of there own.


Maybe the gay-basher part of the scouts could distinguish themselves by wearing a different uniform:

i50.tinypic.com
2013-02-01 07:09:31 PM  
1 votes:

sheep snorter: xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sodom and Gonnarhea was not gay. It was full of fat lazy rich republican f*cks who brought about their own destruction due to being rich non-caring f*cks who didn't care about poor people.

/Oh but being full of republicans, I guess it was gay after all.


Also there was no gayness involved in the story, because trying to rape an angel (who are sexless, or at least not referred to using gendered pronouns) is  weird to map to homosexuality - firstly they aren't the same species, secondly the gender of the angel is uncertain, and then there is the rape aspect which might be considered more critical to the entire reason it is mentioned in the first place, especially when added to the whole inhospitable to strangers and the poor.

/of course if Sodom and Gomorrah is largely about being mean to poor people, you can see why Republicans want to recast it as something else given their insistence that denying aid to poor people is something to brag about and campaign for
2013-02-01 07:08:44 PM  
1 votes:
Just another group of individuals who just want to move on in and hijack someone elses group due to being to lazy and incompetent to create a group of there own.
2013-02-01 07:05:24 PM  
1 votes:
It's hard to be more culturally outdated and regressive than the US military, but the scouts manage to pull it off.
2013-02-01 06:59:12 PM  
1 votes:

kim jong-un: Marine1: kim jong-un: xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that the bible omitted atheism because denying God was no big deal.

FWIW, some more liberal Jews don't consider atheism to be a disqualification for being Jewish.

Partly because for some it is ethnic as well as religious. I always prickled at the idea that some looked down on non Semitic Jews.


No kidding. The girlfriend is of the tribe (at least religiously) and converted as a teenager from Catholicism. I got to talking with a Jewish girl I went to high school with (who is full-blooded and going to Yeshiva U right now) and she upright told me that my girlfriend isn't Jewish.

I mean, other than the going to shabbat services every week (she's there now), being the president of the Jewish sorority at my university, wearing a Star of David necklace daily, going on a Birthright trip, and once telling me Jesus was a lie in an argument early on in our relationship... she's not Jewish at all.

With all due respect, the gene pool really isn't big enough at this point to be that picky about who you let be a Jew.
2013-02-01 06:55:59 PM  
1 votes:
When I was a scout we had a retired army sergeant as our troop leader and we skipped the religious stuff, also we where in the ghetto part of town so we also skipped uniforms, he got the local national guard to donate equipment for camp outs and we all had a camo field jacket as our uniform. Yes the other scouts did fear us
2013-02-01 06:49:30 PM  
1 votes:
I was a cub scout, a webelo and a boy scout. None for any extended period of time, just kept trying again every few years. Other than oaths I can't recall anything remotely religious. It was more of a patriotic child army, preparing for everything.

/skillz, biatches
2013-02-01 06:48:00 PM  
1 votes:
You know, if the Boy Scout leadership is such a bunch of assholes (and they appear to be), just form your own farking scouting organization. How hard can it be?

It can't be too hard to come up with cooler uniforms, at least.

My suggestion would be camo and maybe berets, kind like the French Foreign Legion.  Except, you know, not foreign.

But in case you're feeling like you need some excitement, the FFL is recruiting:

http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/
2013-02-01 06:47:08 PM  
1 votes:
I got numerous merit badges in religous hypocrisy.
2013-02-01 06:46:35 PM  
1 votes:

Lumber Jack Off: I was a boyscout as a teen - even made eagle scout. I am and always have been an atheist. the troop I was with was, at least at the time, very secular. I remember god being part of the scout oath - but I always thought of it as god is also mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. I always omitted that part while in school and in scouts. figured it was optional. actually, I didn't even realize the boy scouts were considered "christian" until very late during my time there, which was right around when the whole no gays thing began....late 90's I believe. just was never a big part of what was discussed during meetings or on camping trips. the scouts were a good experience and even though I plan on raising my kids as atheists as well, I won't hesitate to let them sign up for boy/cub scouts.


You said everything I came here to say.  Perfect summary of my experience and feelings toward the scouts and religion.
2013-02-01 06:46:24 PM  
1 votes:

xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.


Oh yeah, I'm sure that the bible omitted atheism because denying God was no big deal.
2013-02-01 06:44:58 PM  
1 votes:
Silly Willies! Most Heathens are polytheistic! I got more gods than you do, scouts, nya nya nyaaaaa!

/Our gods are cooler, too! Cuz Odin and stuff.
2013-02-01 06:44:30 PM  
1 votes:

xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.


Sodom and Gonnarhea was not gay. It was full of fat lazy rich republican f*cks who brought about their own destruction due to being rich non-caring f*cks who didn't care about poor people.

/Oh but being full of republicans, I guess it was gay after all.
2013-02-01 06:43:01 PM  
1 votes:
I was a Cub Scout, and the pushing of the religious agenda was one of the reasons I never got past Webelos.

My parents had nothing to do with it. They'd both been brought up in strict, religious homes, and had decided not to discuss religion with my sister and I as we grew up unless we brought it up, then they would be encyclopedic in their responses. We were free to go to church and church-related activities with our friends, or not to. They just didn't push any of it on us.

Oddly, both my sister and I grew up to be atheists (not agnostics). Funny how it works if you don't indoctrinate kids into your religion at an early age.

Anyway, I was always unhappy with the religious subtext in scouts, so I just stopped going. Not really sure why an atheist would want to be in the Scouts.
2013-02-01 06:42:29 PM  
1 votes:

ShawnDoc: Ennuipoet: Any organization that needs me to profess belief in a higher power, whether it be scouts or Alcoholic Anonymous. is not something I want to be a part of any way.


Unless, they offer steep discounts at local bars, then I would be willing to lie about my disbelief, for a couple of rounds.

Guess you'll never get to join the Masons then.


I know I was bit on edge just now, but if I got in I would sit in the back and not bother anyone.
2013-02-01 06:40:45 PM  
1 votes:
In the American social order, the only thing lower than atheists are pedophiles.
www.theblaze.com
2013-02-01 06:38:23 PM  
1 votes:

ShawnDoc: Guess you'll never get to join the Masons then.


I have a Second Hand Apron!


I nearly got in at Hendon.
2013-02-01 06:37:27 PM  
1 votes:
I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.
2013-02-01 06:36:41 PM  
1 votes:

FloydA: Being an ass is a religion.


Tapping ass is my religion.

/fundamentalist fanatic
2013-02-01 06:35:42 PM  
1 votes:
Meh, I was in Boy Scouts and athiest. Big deal.
2013-02-01 06:34:39 PM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: Boy scouting is a religion.


Don't be silly.  AA is a religion.  Amway is a religion.  Freemasonry is a religion.

The Boy Scouts are a cult.  Like $cientology.
2013-02-01 06:33:46 PM  
1 votes:

StrandedInAZ: They've already announced on the news here that most of the councils in Arizona will not be changing their stance on allowing gays.

/I know - big surprise


Ah mormons.

Also, what about the Irish?
2013-02-01 06:32:35 PM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: Boy scouting is a religion.


No it's not. Don't be an ass.
2013-02-01 06:31:30 PM  
1 votes:
They've already announced on the news here that most of the councils in Arizona will not be changing their stance on allowing gays.

/I know - big surprise
2013-02-01 06:27:01 PM  
1 votes:
They only really ask that you fake it.
2013-02-01 06:11:31 PM  
1 votes:
A Scout is:

Trustworthy,Loyal,Helpful,Friendly,Courteous,Kind,Obedient,Cheerful, Thrifty,Brave,Clean,and Reverent. I never could get more than 11 out of 12
2013-02-01 06:09:28 PM  
1 votes:
Boy scouting is a religion.
 
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