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(The Atlantic)   Boy Scouts of America: "Oh alright, the gays can join, as long as they're not godless heathens"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 343
    More: Asinine, Boy Scouts of America, atheist groups, religious discrimination, atheists, gays, Human Rights Campaign  
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10338 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2013 at 6:29 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-02 12:48:50 AM  

fusillade762: WTF Indeed: fusillade762: Boy scouting is a religion.

No it's not. Don't be an ass.

I'm just preempting a certain Frenchman who's no doubt on his way.


I would have gone with "Scouting is a learned behavior"
 
2013-02-02 12:59:55 AM  

Bermuda59: What about the Irish?


No.  They're as bad as the Boy Scouts.   You can't be Irish if you're gay.
 
2013-02-02 01:00:12 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: tinfoil-hat maggie: I guess I can't help myself ; ) Wut? I like smart passionate people ; )
/What can I say?

Brains and sensitivity turn you on, that's all :) But I know your weaknesses, yeeees.

[www.popwired.com image 450x355]

;)

Fano: I will note an uptick in more than nominally facetious arguments in favor of polygamy and bestiality in the last year on fark. Gay marriage is non-negotiable, no matter what those jokers say though. I'll assume those folks are shock and awe concern trolls.

Some do it to mock those who use it, but most either do it because they actually believe it or because they feel like trolling.


No that's not really all but that wasn't fair : /
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-02 01:01:22 AM  

DreamyAltarBoy: fusillade762: WTF Indeed: fusillade762: Boy scouting is a religion.

No it's not. Don't be an ass.

I'm just preempting a certain Frenchman who's no doubt on his way.

I would have gone with "Scouting is a learned behavior"


LoL : )
 
2013-02-02 01:03:47 AM  

FloydA: WTF Indeed: fusillade762: Boy scouting is a religion.

No it's not. Don't be an ass.

Being an ass is a religion.


Fark is a temple.
 
2013-02-02 01:06:07 AM  

coeyagi: Mock26: The very first commandment is, "You shall have no other gods before me."  Yet, the Boy Scouts of America allow Hindus to join and to hold positions of leadership.  Seems that the Boy Scouts, like many so-called christians, are fond of picking and choosing those parts of the bible that are convenient to their agenda and ignore those parts that are inconvenient.

Wow, a new breed of ignorance reveals itself.  It's not the Boy Scouts of Jesus, or were you just hoping for a few bites?


And just where did the Boy Scouts get the idea that homosexuals are not "morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed"?  I will give you a hint:  the bible.

The Boy Scouts of America has never shied away from the fact that they are an organization with with christian roots and christian values, and where do those values come from?  I will again give you a hint: the bible.
 
2013-02-02 01:06:10 AM  

ciberido: Bermuda59: What about the Irish?

No.  They're as bad as the Boy Scouts.   You can't be Irish if you're gay.


Well there are no happy Irish Songs : )
 
2013-02-02 01:07:32 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: tinfoil-hat maggie: I guess I can't help myself ; ) Wut? I like smart passionate people ; )
/What can I say?

Brains and sensitivity turn you on, that's all :) But I know your weaknesses, yeeees.

[www.popwired.com image 450x355]

;)

Fano: I will note an uptick in more than nominally facetious arguments in favor of polygamy and bestiality in the last year on fark. Gay marriage is non-negotiable, no matter what those jokers say though. I'll assume those folks are shock and awe concern trolls.

Some do it to mock those who use it, but most either do it because they actually believe it or because they feel like trolling.


I hope they don't do it because they believe they are A-ok now that gay rights are being respected, so now the slippery slope means their stuff is on the table. Things between consenting adults is a pretty bright line to draw (age of consent perhaps culturally negotiable, within limits) Bestiality, incest, pedophilia still  remain off the table forever. Polygamy is a push for me, I understand arguments from cultures where it is practiced, but find it unacceptable here.
 
2013-02-02 01:09:52 AM  

madgonad: In the American social order, the only thing lower than atheists are pedophiles.
[www.theblaze.com image 530x361]


You forgot furries.
 
2013-02-02 01:11:05 AM  

KangTheMad: xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.

It's easier to tell when someone is gay, they like the tight shorts and always watch the butts of other scouts on hikes. Athiest, you pretty much have to wave a flaming bible over your head while peeing on a cross for people to notice.


Dude, don't steal my act!

A performance artist's act is SACRED!
 
2013-02-02 01:12:58 AM  

ciberido: madgonad: In the American social order, the only thing lower than atheists are pedophiles.
[www.theblaze.com image 530x361]

You forgot furries.


Oh, now you're just trying to push buttons, I love it ; )
/Cheers : )
 
2013-02-02 01:16:49 AM  

ciberido: madgonad: In the American social order, the only thing lower than atheists are pedophiles.
[www.theblaze.com image 530x361]

You forgot furries.


And Broncos fans.
 
2013-02-02 01:19:43 AM  

phalamir: xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sodom and Gomorrah was because they did not show hospitality to guests - the form of that inhospitality is secondary or tertiary to the issue.  In the same way, we generally do not say your crime was carpentry when you nail someone's head to a wall



No, it had nothing to do with hospitality OR homosexuality per se.  Actually the reason why God smited (smote?) Sodom and Gomorrah was because they did not have refrigeration.
 
2013-02-02 01:20:46 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Keizer_Ghidorah: tinfoil-hat maggie: I guess I can't help myself ; ) Wut? I like smart passionate people ; )
/What can I say?

Brains and sensitivity turn you on, that's all :) But I know your weaknesses, yeeees.

[www.popwired.com image 450x355]

;)

Fano: I will note an uptick in more than nominally facetious arguments in favor of polygamy and bestiality in the last year on fark. Gay marriage is non-negotiable, no matter what those jokers say though. I'll assume those folks are shock and awe concern trolls.

Some do it to mock those who use it, but most either do it because they actually believe it or because they feel like trolling.

No that's not really all but that wasn't fair : /
[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x635]


Heh heh heh. Mmmmm, I wanna nuzzle her stomach.
 
2013-02-02 01:23:21 AM  

uncleacid: I think I'll pass when they start selling Boy Scout Cookies.


www.addamsfamily.com
Depends.   Are they made from real Boy Scouts?
 
2013-02-02 01:30:40 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Heh heh heh. Mmmmm, I wanna nuzzle her stomach.


I know right : )
eatdrinkdatelaughpray.files.wordpress.com
/And now how do you feel : )
 
2013-02-02 01:33:06 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: It's funny that the Girl Scouts don't have this same issue. They let in everyone, because they want ALL girls to grow to be strong women, not just the "right" girls. Of course, that might be because the Mormons haven't taken over GSUSA, likely because Mormons don't want strong women.


This article from the Atlantic gives some history and explanation of how the two groups are so different.
 
2013-02-02 01:35:49 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Mike Chewbacca: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Boo hoo, not every organization on earth is something we qualify to join.  Let's whine until they change their rules because our feelings are hurt!

There's a difference between qualifying and "we don't let your kind in." But you knew that already.

Not really, you subscribe to their way of life, or you don't.  If you don't like it, don't whine like a little biatch and start your own club instead.

So how does a black person subscribe to a white person's way of life?



Pay Michael Jackson's doctors a lot of money.
 
2013-02-02 01:42:38 AM  

netgamer7k: It won't be long until people into pedophilia and bestiality will be asking for rights.

I'm just gonna walk away when someone says, "What's wrong with somebody choosing to marry their dog?" or "Why should he (50 year old man) not have his right to marry a 12 year old girl he loves?"


thenakedpheasant.files.wordpress.com

It's not the dogs you need to worry about people marrying.  It's the ducks.
 
2013-02-02 01:42:40 AM  

ciberido: uncleacid: I think I'll pass when they start selling Boy Scout Cookies.

[www.addamsfamily.com image 640x480]
Depends.   Are they made from real Boy Scouts?


Will you marry me, yes the Addams family thing really did it for me(yes I now it was supposed to be girl scouts ) of course it could have been the Irish song that helped my drinking along : )
More Irish music by the Wolf Tones Crazy stuff : )
 
2013-02-02 01:44:55 AM  

ciberido: netgamer7k: It won't be long until people into pedophilia and bestiality will be asking for rights.

I'm just gonna walk away when someone says, "What's wrong with somebody choosing to marry their dog?" or "Why should he (50 year old man) not have his right to marry a 12 year old girl he loves?"

[thenakedpheasant.files.wordpress.com image 640x480]

It's not the dogs you need to worry about people marrying.  It's the ducks.


That movie did always make me feel funny : )
 
2013-02-02 02:01:52 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: davidphogan: Keizer_Ghidorah: netgamer7k: It won't be long until people into pedophilia and bestiality will be asking for rights.

I'm just gonna walk away when someone says, "What's wrong with somebody choosing to marry their dog?" or "Why should he (50 year old man) not have his right to marry a 12 year old girl he loves?"

Ah, the slippery slope fallacy. How droll.

KrispyKritter: one more time: What's stopping you people from forming Gays and Lesbian Scouts of America? sad truth in boy Boy and girl Scouts is there are damn few parents & guardians that want to get involved with their children's activities. Start your own thing, don't wait for some folks you don't even care for to ask you to join their reindeer games, you idiots.

Ah, separate but equal. How droll.

When did a slippery slope become an absolute fallacy?

When it's the "If you allow equality for homosexuals, then you have to allow equality for child rapists and dog farkers and people will marry their turtles and American civilization will end!" slippery slope argument, then it's automatically a fallacy. Consenting adults =/= forcing yourself on children and animals.



Yes, that is EXACTLY what God was worried about.   People wanting to marry their turtles.
 
2013-02-02 02:07:02 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Keizer_Ghidorah: Heh heh heh. Mmmmm, I wanna nuzzle her stomach.

I know right : )
[eatdrinkdatelaughpray.files.wordpress.com image 300x425]
/And now how do you feel : )


I don't know about the Keizer, but I'm up for both.
 
2013-02-02 02:16:54 AM  

DreamyAltarBoy: tinfoil-hat maggie: Keizer_Ghidorah: Heh heh heh. Mmmmm, I wanna nuzzle her stomach.

I know right : )
[eatdrinkdatelaughpray.files.wordpress.com image 300x425]
/And now how do you feel : )

I don't know about the Keizer, but I'm up for both.


Exactly, correct answer.
Also there is a facial hair thread upstream that really could use some hot men in it : )
 
2013-02-02 02:22:15 AM  

lostcat: I was a Cub Scout, and the pushing of the religious agenda was one of the reasons I never got past Webelos.

My parents had nothing to do with it. They'd both been brought up in strict, religious homes, and had decided not to discuss religion with my sister and I as we grew up unless we brought it up, then they would be encyclopedic in their responses. We were free to go to church and church-related activities with our friends, or not to. They just didn't push any of it on us.

Oddly, both my sister and I grew up to be atheists (not agnostics). Funny how it works if you don't indoctrinate kids into your religion at an early age.

Anyway, I was always unhappy with the religious subtext in scouts, so I just stopped going. Not really sure why an atheist would want to be in the Scouts.


That's funny, that's more or less what my spouse and I have done (one is a non-church going Christian the other is atheist) and the kiddo is showing definite signs of being religious.

 It is always his choice, but I found it interesting.
 
2013-02-02 03:08:34 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: davidphogan: Keizer_Ghidorah: netgamer7k: It won't be long until people into pedophilia and bestiality will be asking for rights.

I'm just gonna walk away when someone says, "What's wrong with somebody choosing to marry their dog?" or "Why should he (50 year old man) not have his right to marry a 12 year old girl he loves?"

Ah, the slippery slope fallacy. How droll.

KrispyKritter: one more time: What's stopping you people from forming Gays and Lesbian Scouts of America? sad truth in boy Boy and girl Scouts is there are damn few parents & guardians that want to get involved with their children's activities. Start your own thing, don't wait for some folks you don't even care for to ask you to join their reindeer games, you idiots.

Ah, separate but equal. How droll.

When did a slippery slope become an absolute fallacy?

When it's the "If you allow equality for homosexuals, then you have to allow equality for child rapists and dog farkers and people will marry their turtles and American civilization will end!" slippery slope argument, then it's automatically a fallacy. Consenting adults =/= forcing yourself on children and animals.


www.fugly.com
 
2013-02-02 04:27:40 AM  

coeyagi: You'd better keep supporting the Girls Scouts, they're bleeding numbers faster than the Boy Scouts


That's absolutely false. BSA is down over 20% since 1999 (from 3,411,852 to 2,723,869. On the other hand, GSUSA had 2,749,000 girls in 1999 and 2,305,744 in 2011 (warning: PDF), a drop of 16.1%. I tried to find more numbers for GS, but I could only find up to 1999 and then 2005, 2009, 2010, and 2011.
 
2013-02-02 04:33:35 AM  

ciberido: Mike Chewbacca: It's funny that the Girl Scouts don't have this same issue. They let in everyone, because they want ALL girls to grow to be strong women, not just the "right" girls. Of course, that might be because the Mormons haven't taken over GSUSA, likely because Mormons don't want strong women.

This article from the Atlantic gives some history and explanation of how the two groups are so different.


The article didn't really say anything I didn't know, until: "The girls' handbook conveys messages about approaching activities with autonomous and critical thinking, whereas the boys' handbook facilitates intellectual passivity through a reliance on organizational scripts." Wow. I'm going to have to dig into that linked report. My sister has a GS troop, and she says everything is girl-led (girls make the decisions, at least to some extent, like what they do with their cookie money, and which badges to work on, and what food to eat when camping).
 
2013-02-02 04:55:11 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: coeyagi: You'd better keep supporting the Girls Scouts, they're bleeding numbers faster than the Boy Scouts

That's absolutely false. BSA is down over 20% since 1999 (from 3,411,852 to 2,723,869. On the other hand, GSUSA had 2,749,000 girls in 1999 and 2,305,744 in 2011 (warning: PDF), a drop of 16.1%. I tried to find more numbers for GS, but I could only find up to 1999 and then 2005, 2009, 2010, and 2011.


Based on the number of girl scouts per 100,000 people the decline is actually 24.8%.  The boy scouts have seen a drop in membership of 28.4%.  Both organizations need to change and adapt to the times if they want to remain relevant, assuming of course, that they still are.
 
2013-02-02 04:58:48 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: coeyagi: You'd better keep supporting the Girls Scouts, they're bleeding numbers faster than the Boy Scouts

That's absolutely false. BSA is down over 20% since 1999 (from 3,411,852 to 2,723,869. On the other hand, GSUSA had 2,749,000 girls in 1999 and 2,305,744 in 2011 (warning: PDF), a drop of 16.1%. I tried to find more numbers for GS, but I could only find up to 1999 and then 2005, 2009, 2010, and 2011.


Also, based on just the number of members, the Boy Scouts are down 20.2%.

/Not contradicting you at all, just pointing out some numbers.
 
2013-02-02 05:09:00 AM  
Why is it always the boy Scouts getting hell for not allowing gays and atheists and not the Royal Rangers?
 
2013-02-02 05:49:04 AM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Why is it always the boy Scouts getting hell for not allowing gays and atheists and not the Royal Rangers?


Probably because their members number in the thousands (compared to millions for the boy scouts) and most Americans have probably never heard of the Royal Rangers.
 
2013-02-02 06:03:12 AM  

Mock26: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Why is it always the boy Scouts getting hell for not allowing gays and atheists and not the Royal Rangers?

Probably because their members number in the thousands (compared to millions for the boy scouts) and most Americans have probably never heard of the Royal Rangers.


Good point.
 
2013-02-02 06:07:23 AM  

Mock26: coeyagi: Mock26: The very first commandment is, "You shall have no other gods before me."  Yet, the Boy Scouts of America allow Hindus to join and to hold positions of leadership.  Seems that the Boy Scouts, like many so-called christians, are fond of picking and choosing those parts of the bible that are convenient to their agenda and ignore those parts that are inconvenient.

Wow, a new breed of ignorance reveals itself.  It's not the Boy Scouts of Jesus, or were you just hoping for a few bites?

And just where did the Boy Scouts get the idea that homosexuals are not "morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed"?  I will give you a hint:  the bible.

The Boy Scouts of America has never shied away from the fact that they are an organization with with christian roots and christian values, and where do those values come from?  I will again give you a hint: the bible.


Face palm. It doesn't mean they are a Christian organization even if most of their members are.

You must be part of the "We are a Christian Nation" crowd. A sad bunch, to be sure.
 
2013-02-02 06:50:52 AM  

coeyagi: Mock26: coeyagi: Mock26: The very first commandment is, "You shall have no other gods before me."  Yet, the Boy Scouts of America allow Hindus to join and to hold positions of leadership.  Seems that the Boy Scouts, like many so-called christians, are fond of picking and choosing those parts of the bible that are convenient to their agenda and ignore those parts that are inconvenient.

Wow, a new breed of ignorance reveals itself.  It's not the Boy Scouts of Jesus, or were you just hoping for a few bites?

And just where did the Boy Scouts get the idea that homosexuals are not "morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed"?  I will give you a hint:  the bible.

The Boy Scouts of America has never shied away from the fact that they are an organization with with christian roots and christian values, and where do those values come from?  I will again give you a hint: the bible.

Face palm. It doesn't mean they are a Christian organization even if most of their members are.

You must be part of the "We are a Christian Nation" crowd. A sad bunch, to be sure.


Homosexuality is bad,  The bible tells us so, so no gays allowed!
Worshiping false gods is bad.  The bible tells us so, but we will ignore that bit.

It matters not that they are not a christian organization, but like many christians they cherry pick parts of the bible that suit their viewpoint/values.

Also, I am not a part of the "We are a christian nation" crowd.  I am actually an atheist and huge fan of the wall of separation between church and state.
 
2013-02-02 08:00:55 AM  
Eagle here, we never really had much emphasis on religion. We had multiple denominations even a couple muslims. But we met in a church so some lip-service was required. It probably depended on the troop, but it's not all bad even for atheists.

Then again we were methodist so we're all going to heaven anyway.
Glad this happened tho.
 
2013-02-02 08:14:49 AM  

Marine1: The national organization has far less power over the individual councils and troops than the media would lead someone to believe.


So an organization that in part prides itself on teaching leadership to the young has none? That's a ringing endorsement.
 
2013-02-02 09:35:06 AM  

DreamyAltarBoy: I would have gone with "Scouting is a learned behavior"


Is "AltarBoy" your surname?
 
2013-02-02 09:56:18 AM  

TerminalEchoes: xen0blue: I can't believe they are letting gays in before atheists. Both are actually against what's the bible, but the bible actually singles homosexuality out by being specifically bad pointing out it's a perversion by illustrating Sodom and Gomorrah.

Because gays are far better at pissing and moaning when the rest of the country isn't coddling them.


Don't encourage people who point at the bible instead of reading it:

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy  (Ezk 16:49)
 
2013-02-02 12:37:45 PM  

Mock26: Mike Chewbacca: coeyagi: You'd better keep supporting the Girls Scouts, they're bleeding numbers faster than the Boy Scouts

That's absolutely false. BSA is down over 20% since 1999 (from 3,411,852 to 2,723,869. On the other hand, GSUSA had 2,749,000 girls in 1999 and 2,305,744 in 2011 (warning: PDF), a drop of 16.1%. I tried to find more numbers for GS, but I could only find up to 1999 and then 2005, 2009, 2010, and 2011.

Based on the number of girl scouts per 100,000 people the decline is actually 24.8%.  The boy scouts have seen a drop in membership of 28.4%.  Both organizations need to change and adapt to the times if they want to remain relevant, assuming of course, that they still are.




A better way to look at it is per 100,000 people in the appropriate age group. I didn't include adult volunteers in my figure
 
2013-02-02 12:40:12 PM  

Mock26: Mike Chewbacca: coeyagi: You'd better keep supporting the Girls Scouts, they're bleeding numbers faster than the Boy Scouts

That's absolutely false. BSA is down over 20% since 1999 (from 3,411,852 to 2,723,869. On the other hand, GSUSA had 2,749,000 girls in 1999 and 2,305,744 in 2011 (warning: PDF), a drop of 16.1%. I tried to find more numbers for GS, but I could only find up to 1999 and then 2005, 2009, 2010, and 2011.

Also, based on just the number of members, the Boy Scouts are down 20.2%.

/Not contradicting you at all, just pointing out some numbers.



Yup
 
2013-02-02 01:28:31 PM  
Atheists who want to join associations that disdain them have to change the culture, not the law.

Good luck with that, heathen.
 
2013-02-02 08:31:32 PM  

Krieghund: EvilEgg: They only really ask that you fake it.

It goes against the whole "trustworthy" thing if you're lying about being reverent.


OTOH, it does get the training in early you'll need to succeed in business, politics or religion. If you can't fake sincerity, you're generally farked.
 
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