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(WTOP)   Virginia governor Bob McDonnell proposes a $100 fee on hybrid drivers to replace the tax money they're not paying on gasoline. How's that smug taste now?   (wtop.com) divider line 238
    More: Amusing, Bob McDonnell, Governor of Virginia, fees, WTOP  
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5914 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2013 at 6:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-01 02:35:11 PM
Better than adding an $0.18/kWh tax to electricity.
 
2013-02-01 02:37:27 PM
And quit giving them the good parking spots in the front of my office.  They should have to park in the back lot.  Let the gas guzzlers park up front... makes them drive less, saves the earth.  Right?
 
2013-02-01 02:40:25 PM
Just stop letting these asshats drive in the HOV lane. That's all I ask.
 
2013-02-01 02:47:15 PM
On Thursday, a senate committee reviewed the $3.1 billion transportation package that would eliminate the state's gas tax and impose the $100 fee.

I have a clever plan to solve the issue of losing that tax revenue from hybrid drivers, Governor Asshat.
 
2013-02-01 02:48:21 PM
Just charge for for coal.
 
2013-02-01 02:53:38 PM

Pocket Ninja: Just stop letting these asshats drive in the HOV lane. That's all I ask.


A 100% snark and satire free comment?

I feel the vapors coming on...
 
2013-02-01 02:57:45 PM
"It's meant to compensate for the federal gas tax that those vehicles do not pay," he said.

So, you think you can collect federal money under a state law?

I'm not sure it works like that.
 
2013-02-01 03:13:27 PM
I know Republicans want to be wrong on everything, but this is ridiculous.
 
2013-02-01 03:19:52 PM
Just charge them the smell their own farts.
(This will work as long as the South Park model is adhered too!)
 
2013-02-01 03:32:15 PM

Blues_X: "It's meant to compensate for the federal gas tax that those vehicles do not pay," he said.

So, you think you can collect federal money under a state law?

I'm not sure it works like that.


It's a mistake. Virginia has a 17.5 cent state gas tax. This proposal would get rid of that, impose a $100 fee on hybrid drivers, and also a few other unrelated taxes (sales tax increase, car registration fee).

In principle this has the sliver of a good idea.... gas taxes pay for infrastructure/road maintenance, and hybrid or electric cars use the road as much as other cars. There is no reason they shouldn't pay equally to maintain these roads.

The big problem is getting rid of the gas tax also, which basically means ONLY hybrid drivers will pay extra to maintain the roads, not drivers of normal cars. Which is just stupid.  Either impose an equal yearly fee (say, $25) for ALL cars and get rid of gas taxes, or maintain the gas tax and also add a small surcharge to hybrid drivers.

I can't help but think he's singling out hybrids under the impression they're usually driven by liberals, and this is a way to lower taxes on his main supporters while alienating people who won't vote for him anyway. But then again I'm a skeptic like that.
 
2013-02-01 03:49:10 PM
hey guys

have you ever seen south park

i have
 
2013-02-01 03:55:40 PM

Supes: The big problem is getting rid of the gas tax also, which basically means ONLY hybrid drivers will pay extra to maintain the roads, not drivers of normal cars. Which is just stupid. Either impose an equal yearly fee (say, $25) for ALL cars and get rid of gas taxes, or maintain the gas tax and also add a small surcharge to hybrid drivers.

I can't help but think he's singling out hybrids under the impression they're usually driven by liberals, and this is a way to lower taxes on his main supporters while alienating people who won't vote for him anyway. But then again I'm a skeptic like that.



I think you're probably right about his motives.
 
2013-02-01 04:02:01 PM

Supes: Blues_X: "It's meant to compensate for the federal gas tax that those vehicles do not pay," he said.

So, you think you can collect federal money under a state law?

I'm not sure it works like that.

It's a mistake. Virginia has a 17.5 cent state gas tax. This proposal would get rid of that, impose a $100 fee on hybrid drivers, and also a few other unrelated taxes (sales tax increase, car registration fee).

In principle this has the sliver of a good idea.... gas taxes pay for infrastructure/road maintenance, and hybrid or electric cars use the road as much as other cars. There is no reason they shouldn't pay equally to maintain these roads.

The big problem is getting rid of the gas tax also, which basically means ONLY hybrid drivers will pay extra to maintain the roads, not drivers of normal cars. Which is just stupid.  Either impose an equal yearly fee (say, $25) for ALL cars and get rid of gas taxes, or maintain the gas tax and also add a small surcharge to hybrid drivers.

I can't help but think he's singling out hybrids under the impression they're usually driven by liberals, and this is a way to lower taxes on his main supporters while alienating people who won't vote for him anyway. But then again I'm a skeptic like that.


In that case, why not a tax based on actual road usage? If you drive more, you pay more.
 
2013-02-01 04:38:14 PM

propasaurus: In that case, why not a tax based on actual road usage? If you drive more, you pay more.


Probably be way too expensive to administer. A flat fee for all registered cars every year would have to save millions in administrative costs, even if it's not be perfectly fair. Of course, none of this is perfectly fair since cars registered out of state would still get away with paying nothing.

Honestly, the gas tax is probably the most fair to everyone. I could definitely rationalize a small surcharge on hybrids (say $25 a year). Getting rid of the gas tax and putting the main burden on hybrid owners is just ridiculous though. It makes no sense to charge hybrid owners the $100/year fee, and normal car owners no extra fee, when the wear-and-tear on the road is the same.
 
2013-02-01 04:53:01 PM
What next, tax car ownder that decide to carpool or take mass transit?  What about bicycles?

Or how about people that quit smoking or drinking?  Those tax revenues need to be made up somehow, right?

I'd say this is beyond retarded, but I did read an NRO piece yesterday that was critical of Obama condemning the Holocaust.  The bar is set very high (or low).
 
2013-02-01 04:59:18 PM

Solid State Vittles: What about bicycles?


TAX THE FARK OUT OF BICYCLES!!!
 
2013-02-01 05:01:43 PM
Can't tax the rich. Gotta find the money somewhere.
 
2013-02-01 05:06:18 PM

Supes: Probably be way too expensive to administer


Non-arterial roads (read: side streets) should be paid for by property taxes against the properties facing on those roads.  Even if you don't drive [much], they are essential for goods and services to your home.

For arterial roads and expressways, let a per-mile tax kick in when the roadway is excessively expensive to build or maintain.  You could use an all-camera system like London, but that has some privacy implications.  Slightly better would be to use an RF transponder in your vehicle in combination with a payment card that is read by sensors as you drive past them.  Sell the cards and refills at kiosks [that accept cash] located at gas stations and rest stops.  If you don't care about the government knowing who you are, register a CC or some other type of EFT to your transponder card and get billed weekly.  If your card is empty, then the system falls back to photo billing.

Such a system would take a lot of pressure off of the gas tax, which might make people care a lot less about hybrids and AFVs.
 
2013-02-01 05:16:24 PM
Taxing people for not using a resource... I don't like it.
 
2013-02-01 05:17:15 PM
I thought they wanted me to drive a hybrid, burn less fuel, emit less pollution, and save the planet.

That is my contribution. Your turn guvnor.
 
2013-02-01 05:17:38 PM
A fee? Oh fine, because that's in no way a tax, right? A fee is just taking a citizen's money and giving it to the government because he bought a particular car, right? Nope, no taxes here, you must be thinking of someone else, Republicans never tax anyone, don't be ridiculous, hey, look at this ultrasound of your bowels, ain't that neat?
 
2013-02-01 05:18:03 PM
HAHAHA  Way to stick it to those stupid libs!!1!  HAHAHAHA!!
 
2013-02-01 05:31:03 PM
I see the Party of Personal FreedomsTM continues its fine work.
 
2013-02-01 05:36:07 PM
"Hybrid and electric car owners circled the capital  "

There's that many of them in VA?
 
2013-02-01 06:02:41 PM
Long-term, this will have to be addressed somehow.

State and Federal tax dollars collected on the sale of gasoline and diesel fuel are used to build and maintain our transportation infrastructure. (Allegedly, based on the condition of some roads I've had the misfortune to drive on).

Over the next 20-30 years, there will be an ever-increasing number of vehicles that use less and less gas, and more and more energy derived from other sources.  Grid-connected smart meters could be configured to detect charging, and add a vehicle surcharge for just that portion of the kilowatts consumed.  Of course, if the source is solar and off the grid, well, that's another can of worms.

Ultimately, some sort of Federally-mandated usage sensitive taxing model will have to be developed, and your car will have a GPS-encoded meter in it that phones home to some agency and debits your bank account, just like filling up on a tank of gas does today.

I'm sure there will be all kinds of sinister "THEY GONNA TRACK MAH MOVEMENTS" people coming out of the woodwork over that, but hey, driving is a privilege, not a right.  Public roadway use in a registered vehicle implies consent to usage monitoring, etc.

Take a bike, or walk, if you don't want anyone knowing where you are going.  And make sure you leave your cellphone behind, too.
 
2013-02-01 06:09:24 PM

2wolves: Pocket Ninja: Just stop letting these asshats drive in the HOV lane. That's all I ask.

A 100% snark and satire free comment?

I feel the vapors coming on...


NOVA and DC roads will frustrate the snark out of even the heartiest of fellows.
 
2013-02-01 06:14:53 PM
No matter what you do, no matter how good your intent, or reasons for doing what you do, the government will ALWAYS find a loophole or make a new law to fark you out of your money. This surprises you how?
 
2013-02-01 06:15:11 PM

markie_farkie: Long-term, this will have to be addressed somehow.

State and Federal tax dollars collected on the sale of gasoline and diesel fuel are used to build and maintain our transportation infrastructure. (Allegedly, based on the condition of some roads I've had the misfortune to drive on).

Over the next 20-30 years, there will be an ever-increasing number of vehicles that use less and less gas, and more and more energy derived from other sources.  Grid-connected smart meters could be configured to detect charging, and add a vehicle surcharge for just that portion of the kilowatts consumed.  Of course, if the source is solar and off the grid, well, that's another can of worms.

Ultimately, some sort of Federally-mandated usage sensitive taxing model will have to be developed, and your car will have a GPS-encoded meter in it that phones home to some agency and debits your bank account, just like filling up on a tank of gas does today.

I'm sure there will be all kinds of sinister "THEY GONNA TRACK MAH MOVEMENTS" people coming out of the woodwork over that, but hey, driving is a privilege, not a right.  Public roadway use in a registered vehicle implies consent to usage monitoring, etc.

Take a bike, or walk, if you don't want anyone knowing where you are going.  And make sure you leave your cellphone behind, too.


Or you know, tax people who can afford it the most. That's much simpler.
 
2013-02-01 06:15:19 PM
If you to tax drivers to pay for the roads, remove the fuel tax and put mileage taxation into play, and make vehicle licensing dependent on the mileage tax being paid up and current.
 
2013-02-01 06:15:40 PM

2wolves: I feel the vapors coming on...


Are you turning Japanese?

/right now?
//ew...
 
2013-02-01 06:16:59 PM
Just like the credit card companies trying to charge you for NOT using their cards, or the banks coming up with some bullshiat new way to fark you. No giant leap here.
 
2013-02-01 06:18:03 PM

Supes: Honestly, the gas tax is probably the most fair to everyone. I could definitely rationalize a small surcharge on hybrids (say $25 a year). Getting rid of the gas tax and putting the main burden on hybrid owners is just ridiculous though. It makes no sense to charge hybrid owners the $100/year fee, and normal car owners no extra fee, when the wear-and-tear on the road is the same.


Hybrids cost more to begin with than a comparable regular combustion model though, so the state is making more money off of the hybrid owner's initial car purchase via the sales tax.
 
2013-02-01 06:19:47 PM
So, is he also going to tax non-smokers because they aren't paying their share of the cigarette tax?
 
2013-02-01 06:20:36 PM
Tracking mileage on everyone would be ridiculous, but how about just taxing mileage on hybrid vehicles? Have them get their mileage read every registration and pay a tax per mile that is comparable to what they would have spent on gas tax. That would be fair.
 
2013-02-01 06:20:55 PM

markie_farkie: Long-term, this will have to be addressed somehow.

State and Federal tax dollars collected on the sale of gasoline and diesel fuel are used to build and maintain our transportation infrastructure. (Allegedly, based on the condition of some roads I've had the misfortune to drive on).



We could stop subsidizing oil production and apply that money to the transportation infrastructure, for starters.
 
2013-02-01 06:21:13 PM

Dixon Cider: Just charge them the smell their own farts.
(This will work as long as the South Park model is adhered too!)


This is about the level of literacy and original thought that I expect out of someone who's replaced their brain with South Park episodes.
 
2013-02-01 06:22:01 PM
Around here they get free public charging, free parking, no tolls, free ferries.... See how long that lasts if there are thousands of them.
 
2013-02-01 06:22:41 PM

phrawgh: 2wolves: I feel the vapors coming on...

Are you turning Japanese?

/right now?
//ew...


He doesn't get the picture.
 
2013-02-01 06:23:23 PM
It tastes pretty farking sweet.

/doesn't own a vehicle
 
2013-02-01 06:23:37 PM
Eliminating the gas tax is a bad idea; it transfers all the funding requirements strictly to Virginia residents and giving nothing but benefits to out of state drivers and truck lines.  Which may be the intention...
 
2013-02-01 06:24:39 PM

Pocket Ninja: Just stop letting these asshats drive in the HOV lane. That's all I ask.


I say they should let people with more than 1 person in the car and commercial trucks(mass transit for goods) have the normal speedlimits they have now like 65-85 depending on state but make cars with just 1 person obey a 55mph limit
 
2013-02-01 06:26:46 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: No matter what you do, no matter how good your intent, or reasons for doing what you do, the government will ALWAYS find a loophole or make a new law to fark you out of your money. This surprises you how?


But it's not the government screwing everyone on this.  It's one particular group of people.  And (ostensibly) it's to make up for revenue they're going to lose by removing an *already existing gas tax*.  Even though there's no way that fee is going to come close to replacing that revenue, so *really* what this is is political grandstanding.

Basically, this is the governor saying "Take that, stupid liberal hippies!"  And then making sure that the guy driving a Canyonero that gets 3 mpg doesn't have to pay an extra nickel per gallon.  This is a sop to the sort of people who think that anything that makes liberals mad is good policy, because apparently those are the kinds of yahoos who elected him the first time.
 
2013-02-01 06:27:56 PM

Pocket Ninja: Just stop letting these asshats cars drive in the HOV lane. That's all I ask.


i.imgur.com


HOV lanes are supposed to help reduce the number of cars on the road. Driving a hybrid doesn't help with traffic.
 
2013-02-01 06:28:26 PM
Yeah, that's stupid. Increase the gas tax. Those who burn more gas should pay more.

I'm looking at you, oversized SUV and pickup truck owners. You're bad for the human race and you hate your country. IMHO.
 
2013-02-01 06:29:20 PM
A road usage tax is stupid, the heavier a vehicle is the more wear and tear they do to the road thus making SUVs, trucks, semis and other large vehicles the ones to impose the taxes on. Hybrids don't touch 10 ton vehicles by any stretch of the imagination.
 
2013-02-01 06:29:30 PM

Dinjiin: Supes: Probably be way too expensive to administer

Non-arterial roads (read: side streets) should be paid for by property taxes against the properties facing on those roads.  Even if you don't drive [much], they are essential for goods and services to your home.

For arterial roads and expressways, let a per-mile tax kick in when the roadway is excessively expensive to build or maintain.  You could use an all-camera system like London, but that has some privacy implications.  Slightly better would be to use an RF transponder in your vehicle in combination with a payment card that is read by sensors as you drive past them.  Sell the cards and refills at kiosks [that accept cash] located at gas stations and rest stops.  If you don't care about the government knowing who you are, register a CC or some other type of EFT to your transponder card and get billed weekly.  If your card is empty, then the system falls back to photo billing.

Such a system would take a lot of pressure off of the gas tax, which might make people care a lot less about hybrids and AFVs.


Sounds a lot like good old fashioned toll roads.
 
2013-02-01 06:30:03 PM
You can always count on the government finding some way to squeeze more money out of us!
 
2013-02-01 06:30:34 PM
Article doesn't say whether he's a republihero or a democrap.

I'm assuming the former. I mean stupid taxes are okay when they're evil right?

I think there should be a tax on guys who abstain from legitimately raping those birth control sluts too.

SUCK IT LIBS!
 
2013-02-01 06:31:23 PM

BarkingUnicorn: "Hybrid and electric car owners circled the capital  "

There's that many of them in VA?


This is Governor Ultrasound we're talking about. If there was one in the entire state, he'd find a way to get more money out of it.


/Virginia resident since 1960
//worried about the direction we're headed
 
2013-02-01 06:31:28 PM

Supes: The big problem is getting rid of the gas tax also, which basically means ONLY hybrid drivers will pay extra to maintain the roads, not drivers of normal cars. Which is just stupid.  Either impose an equal yearly fee (say, $25) for ALL cars and get rid of gas taxes, or maintain the gas tax and also add a small surcharge to hybrid drivers.


If the goal is to charge fairly for wear on the roads, the tax should be proportional to the fourth power of weight-per-axle, and directly proportional to the number of axles and the miles driven.   No chance of that happening, but at least a tax on gas has the property of being proportional to the amount of driving and in practice charging heavier vehicles more per mile.  

I can't help but think he's singling out hybrids under the impression they're usually driven by liberals, and this is a way to lower taxes on his main supporters while alienating people who won't vote for him anyway. But then again I'm a skeptic like that.

Are there even enough hybrids in the state to pay for the roads?  If you keep jacking up the hybrid tax to get all of the missing gas tax revenue from fewer and fewer hybrids, soon there will be no hybrids in the state at all.
 
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