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(Talking Points Memo)   Senate Democrats get their 60 votes for the Violence Against Women Act. Subby's not sure if this warrants a "spiffy" tag for the vote or a "sad" tag for the fact that 60 votes were needed to break a GOP filibuster   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 571
    More: Spiffy, Violence Against Women Act, Senate, Democrats, senate democrats, Jerry Moran, House Republicans, Dean Heller, domestic violence  
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10820 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2013 at 2:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-01 08:00:58 PM  

jst3p: OgreMagi: jst3p: jst3p: OgreMagi: jst3p: OgreMagi: Also, it completely ignores the reality that men are just as often victims of domestic

OgreMagi: Because the Federal government has no legal authority.

These are two of the dumbest things you have ever typed here, and that is impressive because you say some really stupid shiat on a regular basis.

The studies show that my first statement is true.

Show me one credible study that shows that men are victims "just as often".

Still waiting for that study....


/I am not really waiting because we both know it doesn't exist

That information has been posted already.  You choose to ignore or dismiss it.

286 peer reviewed studies back the claim.  But I guess experts in their field must bow to your infinite wisdom that says it doesn't happen.

I don't see anywhere that 50% of victims of domestic violence are men. You are full of shiat, as usual.


The study said 1/4 of the time men initiate the violence.  1/4 of the time women initiate the violence.  1/2 the time it is both (mutual abuse).  That means AS FARKING OFTEN.  1/4 == 1/4.  Unless you are going to quibble about a difference that falls within error or rounding.
 
2013-02-01 08:14:17 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Wow an inherently discriminatory act. Where's the Violence Against Men Act?

there is already a LOT of protections in place for women yet where's the support for abused men? Oh that's right, men are never abused, it's only the "weaker sex" (but that label is only applied when it benefits them mind you) that needs protecting.

Your gender shouldn't matter. Abuse is abuse. Treat it all equally and lets NOT create special classes of people.


/been abused and went to jail for restraining someone that busted my lip and kicked me in the nuts.
//restrained in self defense
///biased laws are biased


then why didn't you read the thread or the text of the bill
 
2013-02-01 08:15:06 PM  

Russky: It wouldn't be a bad thing to include men or have another bill for that, but it doesn't make it a bad bill.


MEN ARE farkING INCLUDED HOLY farkING shiat
 
2013-02-01 08:18:59 PM  

knowless: i didn't want to comment on this because of the possibility that i would get killed over my opinions, but here we go:

so, vawa undermines basic due process, if you are just now hearing about this wonderfully effective piece of legislation which itself actually increases violence, rape, and incarceration, predominantly for men, while completely ignoring that DV rates are equal initiation for either sex, also between same sex couples, then good for you, you epitomize the kneejerk pointless american who has no idea about the "laws" under which you are governed.

here's some crazy shiat that you can make fun of:  http://www.the-spearhead.com/

come, revel in the glory of a society which makes laws which make some more equal than others.

and make sure to hate on white men! because alienating huge swaths of the populace is a great way to build social cohesion! it's almost like this shiat is done on purpose to deter solidarity and acceptance, but who knows, i'm probably just a crazy fark who doesn't deserve to own weapons or the right to due process and free speech, because why? because fark me obviously.

way to go though for having no idea about a law that has been wreaking havoc over large swaths of the population for nearly two decades! see you in the future guys!


Men are also protected by the bill. Yes, even the long-suffering white christian middle class male.
 
2013-02-01 08:19:35 PM  
Hey, is anybody wondering whether this bill also includes protection for men against domestic violence? Because it farking does, you farking mongoloids
 
2013-02-01 08:19:47 PM  
In all seriousness, had an ex g/f beat the snot out of me in the parking lot of her job. Cameras caught it and the guard in duty called tho police. Cop shows up and gives me a kinda hard time about a "lil ole girl like that" bloodying up and scratching a bigamist like me. He told me "You know you have the right to defend yourself" to which I replied "If you got here and we both were bloody, with the same story except now I defended myself, who would go to jail?" He thought about it for a minute then kinda shook his head and said "Ya, you're right."

Oh, this is after he had shown up, handcuffed me, put me in the back of the cruiser. He didn't bother talking to me until after he had spoken to ex. In fact, I had to tell him to talk to the guard to watch the tape. He was amazed I stood there and did nothing but block the majority of the blows.

/I broke the rule.
//stuck my dick in crazy
 
2013-02-01 08:21:42 PM  

Jackson Herring: Hey, is anybody wondering whether this bill also includes protection for men against domestic violence? Because it farking does, you farking mongoloids


Why don't they change the name then?
 
2013-02-01 08:23:10 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Jackson Herring: Hey, is anybody wondering whether this bill also includes protection for men against domestic violence? Because it farking does, you farking mongoloids

Why don't they change the name then?


because it is funny as hell watching the men's rights advocates expose themselves
 
2013-02-01 08:23:15 PM  

OgreMagi: The study said 1/4 of the time men initiate the violence. 1/4 of the time women initiate the violence. 1/2 the time it is both (mutual abuse). That means AS FARKING OFTEN. 1/4 == 1/4. Unless you are going to quibble about a difference that falls within error or rounding.


Your claim: "men are just as often victims of domestic violence"

YOUR link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence


According to a report by the United States Department of Justice, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1% of women and 7.4% of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime

From the rest of the internet:

About two in five of all victims of domestic violence are men,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-v io lence

There's little doubt that women endure more of all types of domestic violence than men,
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-men/2008/07/18/men-are -v ictims-of-domestic-violence-too


There are plenty more. Goodnight, dumbass.
 
2013-02-01 08:23:31 PM  

kendelrio: //stuck my dick in crazy


It was fun, wasn't it?

/yeah, been there
 
2013-02-01 08:23:33 PM  
Lol. "Big old boy like me" became "bigamist like me"

/farking autocorrect.
//need violence against it!
 
2013-02-01 08:27:06 PM  

jst3p: OgreMagi: The study said 1/4 of the time men initiate the violence. 1/4 of the time women initiate the violence. 1/2 the time it is both (mutual abuse). That means AS FARKING OFTEN. 1/4 == 1/4. Unless you are going to quibble about a difference that falls within error or rounding.

Your claim: "men are just as often victims of domestic violence"

YOUR link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence


According to a report by the United States Department of Justice, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1% of women and 7.4% of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime

From the rest of the internet:

About two in five of all victims of domestic violence are men,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-v io lence

There's little doubt that women endure more of all types of domestic violence than men,
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-men/2008/07/18/men-are -v ictims-of-domestic-violence-too


There are plenty more. Goodnight, dumbass.


The information I referred to was posted by someone else.  I saw no need to repost the same link.  You are posting news articles.  At least the wiki article (which i agree is not a great source) has links to primary sources.  The other post is by far the best as it provides a sumation of 286 peer reviewed studies on domestic violence.

And since you have resorted to name calling, go fark yourself, ignorant douche.
 
2013-02-01 08:27:27 PM  

Jackson Herring: DrewCurtisJr: Jackson Herring: Hey, is anybody wondering whether this bill also includes protection for men against domestic violence? Because it farking does, you farking mongoloids

Why don't they change the name then?

because it is funny as hell watching the men's rights advocates expose themselves


I think you're on to something... What would happen if one was to introduce a tax bill that would double capital gains tax but call it the 'Stop Obama from Aborting Christian Babies Act?'
 
2013-02-01 08:27:51 PM  

OgreMagi: kendelrio: //stuck my dick in crazy

It was fun, wasn't it?

/yeah, been there


Honestly it was an extremely sublime roller coaster ride through high moments of incredible ecstasy followed by sheer unmitigated terror with a dash of "fight or flight" thrown in.

/never knew which was gonna happen when I walked through the door.
//worked itself out though because she ran off with my best friend.
///tried to warn him
 
2013-02-01 08:28:04 PM  
I'm behind, does it still use the Duluth Model as a basis?
 
2013-02-01 08:31:30 PM  

kendelrio: OgreMagi: kendelrio: //stuck my dick in crazy

It was fun, wasn't it?

/yeah, been there

Honestly it was an extremely sublime roller coaster ride through high moments of incredible ecstasy followed by sheer unmitigated terror with a dash of "fight or flight" thrown in.


Damn.  I think we dated the same woman.
 
2013-02-01 08:43:25 PM  

OgreMagi: The information I referred to was posted by someone else. I saw no need to repost the same link. You are posting news articles. At least the wiki article (which i agree is not a great source) has links to primary sources.


So do the news articles.


I don't feel like spending $15 to figured out why the study you are drawing your conclusion from has such a vastly different number than every other source I am able to find. After looking at the sample I would wager that those numbers are not from the entire population, but some subset (I suspect married couples who report domestic violence). If you look at it there are lots of datasets used and compared in multiple ways even in the preview on google books.

The point is I have given two sources that show that across the population as a whole women are much more likely to be victims of domestic violence. You are resting on one claim from a study in which we don't know the context of the data.

How about this:

Women experience significantly more
partner violence than men do: 25 percent of
surveyed women, compared with 8 percent
of surveyed men, said they were raped
and/or physically assaulted by a current or
former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date
in their lifetime; 1.5 percent of surveyed
women and 0.9 percent of surveyed men
said they were raped and/or physically assaulted
by such a perpetrator in the previous
12 months. According to survey estimates,
approximately 1.5 million women and
834,700 men are raped and/or physically
assaulted by an intimate partner annually
in the United States. Because women are
also more likely to be injured by intimate
partners, research aimed at understanding
and preventing partner violence against
women should be stressed.


https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

That is from the US Dept of Justice (it is the study referenced in one of the other links I provided).

You are WRONG.
 
2013-02-01 09:04:24 PM  

FlashHarry: farking republicans. is there ANY issue on which they are on the right side?


But there's no Republican War on Women.  No siree.  That's a myth.
 
2013-02-01 09:07:21 PM  

Aeon Rising: Liberals believe all guns should be banned because if they had access to them they would rampage. Listen to how they talk about how easy it is to kill with a gun. Farking evil psychos.
Liberals have said to my face that that we deserved 9/11 while condemning our actions to defend ourselves.
Liberals don't think mexicans could possibly fix their own country, be expected to obey immigration laws or otherwise function within the law, so they make special exceptions.
Liberals raise taxes on income, practically jerk off to the idea of income tax, oblvious and stupid about how the real power elite make and protect their money.

Libs are hypocritical lying deceptive dirtbags who will shout insults (like I am doing) and act all offended that someone DARES to respond in kind.

fark libs


Yeah, you're bug-farking insane. Have a nice day.
 
2013-02-01 09:07:27 PM  

jst3p: The point is I have given two sources that show that across the population as a whole women are much more likely to be victims of domestic violence. You are resting on one claim from a study in which we don't know the context of the data.

How about this:

Women experience significantly more
partner violence than men do: 25 percent of
surveyed women, compared with 8 percent
of surveyed men, said they were raped
and/or physically assaulted by a current or
former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date
in their lifetime; 1.5 percent of surveyed
women and 0.9 percent of surveyed men
said they were raped and/or physically assaulted
by such a perpetrator in the previous
12 months. According to survey estimates,
approximately 1.5 million women and
834,700 men are raped and/or physically
assaulted by an intimate partner annually
in the United States. Because women are
also more likely to be injured by intimate
partners, research aimed at understanding
and preventing partner violence against
women should be stressed.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

That is from the US Dept of Justice (it is the study referenced in one of the other links I provided).

You are WRONG.


Something to keep in mind... there's a difference between people who have been victims of abuse and who's the victim of abuse.

Given three couples:
Man A hits woman A once.
Woman B hits man B 50 times.
Man C and women C engage in mutual combat 10 times

66% men were assaulted. 66% of women were assaulted. 81% of assaults had male victims.

You can argue it however you like, but with the 8% and 24% numbers, If it took 3x the assaults for a man to leave a relationship than a woman, the number of assaults with victim sex break even. I've got no idea what's accurate, I'm just sayin'
 
2013-02-01 09:10:49 PM  

jst3p: You are WRONG.


No I wasn't.  The newer study takes into account the social stigma of men reporting domestic violence and adjusts for it.  When factored in, the rate is about the same.

You can argue correctly that women tend to be injured more often and more seriously than men.  However, women are more likely to use a weapon, while men usually use their fists.  This makes sense when you take into account the typical physical differences of men and women.
 
2013-02-01 09:14:36 PM  

jst3p: OgreMagi: The information I referred to was posted by someone else. I saw no need to repost the same link. You are posting news articles. At least the wiki article (which i agree is not a great source) has links to primary sources.

So do the news articles.


I don't feel like spending $15 to figured out why the study you are drawing your conclusion from has such a vastly different number than every other source I am able to find. After looking at the sample I would wager that those numbers are not from the entire population, but some subset (I suspect married couples who report domestic violence). If you look at it there are lots of datasets used and compared in multiple ways even in the preview on google books.

The point is I have given two sources that show that across the population as a whole women are much more likely to be victims of domestic violence. You are resting on one claim from a study in which we don't know the context of the data.

How about this:

Women experience significantly more
partner violence than men do: 25 percent of
surveyed women, compared with 8 percent
of surveyed men, said they were raped
and/or physically assaulted by a current or
former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date
in their lifetime; 1.5 percent of surveyed
women and 0.9 percent of surveyed men
said they were raped and/or physically assaulted
by such a perpetrator in the previous
12 months. According to survey estimates,
approximately 1.5 million women and
834,700 men are raped and/or physically
assaulted by an intimate partner annually
in the United States. Because women are
also more likely to be injured by intimate
partners, research aimed at understanding
and preventing partner violence against
women should be stressed.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

That is from the US Dept of Justice (it is the study referenced in one of the other links I provided).

You are WRONG.


The report is from 1998. 15 years ago.

Last CDC report said men were equally as likely to be raped in the past 12 months.
 
2013-02-01 09:17:45 PM  

ProfessorOhki: You can argue it however you like, but with the 8% and 24% numbers, If it took 3x the assaults for a man to leave a relationship than a woman, the number of assaults with victim sex break even. I've got no idea what's accurate, I'm just sayin'


One of the factors that make domestic violence rates seem worse than they actually are is how they are reported.  The same couple engaging in domestic violence 10 times is counted as 10 instances of domestic violence, not one.  Because both men and women are slow to leave abusive partners even when safe havens are readily available, you get an inflation in the rate despite it being the same set of couples.

The whole idea of shelters is to provide a way for the victim (and children) to find safety.  I certainly support this idea.  What I dislike is the absence of these types of shelters for men (and saying homeless shelters for men are the same thing is bullshiat).  I'm also not thrilled with the Federal government getting involved as I consider it beyond their scope of enumerated powers.
 
2013-02-01 09:21:57 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: untaken_name: Hmm, it's not nice to insult someone by comparing them to someone with Down's Syndrome. That's pretty shiatty, actually. I take it you've never actually KNOWN anyone with Down's, or you wouldn't be so flip about it.

Boy, you know all about me, don't you?


I only know what you present, bigot. I didn't make you type what you typed, hatemonger.
 
2013-02-01 09:28:26 PM  

naughtyrev: mahuika: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Good.  Now, let's watch as Boehner shoots himself in the foot again by refusing to vote on it.

Yeah, I was going to say, it barely scraped by in our more functional arm of the legislative branch. Don't go breaking out the spiffy tag yet, subs.

I'm expecting someone in the House threaten to smack a Congresswoman when it comes up for debate, frankly.


Or throw acid in a female Senator's face, maybe.
 
2013-02-01 09:38:13 PM  

kbotc: Last CDC report said men were equally as likely to be raped in the past 12 months.


Wonderful for that subset of domestic violence, we are talking about all DV.
 
2013-02-01 09:39:12 PM  

OgreMagi: jst3p: You are WRONG.

No I wasn't. The newer study takes into account the social stigma of men reporting domestic violence and adjusts for it. When factored in, the rate is about the same.


Show me where, in the study, it says this.
 
2013-02-01 09:44:34 PM  
ciberido: naughtyrev: I'm expecting someone in the House threaten to smack a Congresswoman when it comes up for debate, frankly.
Or throw acid in a female Senator's face, maybe.


what_now: naughtyrev: mahuika: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Good.  Now, let's watch as Boehner shoots himself in the foot again by refusing to vote on it.

Yeah, I was going to say, it barely scraped by in our more functional arm of the legislative branch. Don't go breaking out the spiffy tag yet, subs.

I'm expecting someone in the House threaten to smack a Congresswoman when it comes up for debate, frankly.

Or threaten to throw acid in the face of one of them.


Damn.  Beat me to it.
 
2013-02-01 09:52:57 PM  

GoldSpider: Just wait until we find out what else is in this bill that has nothing to do with violence against women.


And if there isn't, you'll be sure to revisit this thread and apologize, right?
 
2013-02-01 09:57:13 PM  
Wait I'm confused. The democrats are for violence against women?
 
2013-02-01 10:16:16 PM  
Filibuster? I could have sworn I saw the Senate doing business the other day.

Oh, you mean these new fangled "gentleman's filibusters" they use now where they don't actually filibuster.
 
2013-02-01 10:23:45 PM  

FlashHarry: farking republicans. is there ANY issue on which they are on the right side?


Well maybe if the Democrats hadn't tried to include illegal immigrants it would have sailed through...............The More You Know!
 
2013-02-01 10:25:57 PM  

GAT_00: Remember kids, the Violence Against Women Act is completely unnecessary and wasteful government legislation.  However, women need unlimited access to guns for protection.


Yeah, because before this passed it was legal to beat women.
 
2013-02-01 10:31:08 PM  

FlashHarry: farking republicans. is there ANY issue on which they are on the right side?


I think there are rational arguments to be made about tort reform.
 
2013-02-01 10:33:24 PM  

EnderX: FlashHarry: farking republicans. is there ANY issue on which they are on the right side?

Well maybe if the Democrats hadn't tried to include illegal immigrants it would have sailed through


And why shouldn't illegal immigrants be included?


...............The More You Know!

Stating a hypothetical as fact is not a "the more you know" situation.
Also it's safe to end an ellipse with three punctuation marks.
 
2013-02-01 10:42:16 PM  

sex0r: DeathCipris: So it protects women and choice minorities from violence? I am ashamed this has to be a law...and even more ashamed it had to be FOUGHT over to get passed...

They were already protected under the same laws as everyone else.  This is the equivalent of double secret probation.


This is the "We don't need laws against hate crimes because hate crimes are already illegal as crimes" argument.  And yes, it's really that dumb.
 
2013-02-01 10:42:31 PM  
So I have not been paying attention to this act (seriously). Is it truly needed or is it one of those acts that is named something no one can oppose but actually throws a bunch of spending to some congressperson's pet project? You know, like an act called "Protect the Children Act" which someone added a provision which allocates $100 million to build a library in Bumfark Idaho dedicated to Strom Thurmond.
 
2013-02-01 10:48:34 PM  

Treygreen13: I see nobody bothered to read why Republicans didn't want to vote for it this time, in spite of already voting for it three times in the past.


You mean the part that goes:

"The reauthorization has fallen prey to disputes between a Senate supermajority and House Republicans on whether to expand coverage to gays, illegal immigrants, college students and Native Americans. "

Yeah, we read it.
 
2013-02-01 10:53:16 PM  

jst3p: kbotc: Last CDC report said men were equally as likely to be raped in the past 12 months.

Wonderful for that subset of domestic violence, we are talking about all DV.


Fine. Here's the reason you're original study is flawed:
"For years, the DOJ has explicitly refused to fund studies that investigate domestic violence against men. According to specialists in this field, the DOJ recently agreed to cover this problem -- as long as researchers give equal time to addressing violence against women. "

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/01/30/a-hidden-crime-domestic-viole nc e-against-men-is-a-growing-probl/

If you refuse to acknowledge that the problem exists, you can make the statistics say whatever the hell you want.
 
2013-02-01 10:55:13 PM  
It's amazing how straight white Christian males always feel threatened by anything that helps those who aren't them. Even when it helps them as well.
 
2013-02-01 11:12:39 PM  

Hickory-smoked: EnderX: FlashHarry: farking republicans. is there ANY issue on which they are on the right side?

Well maybe if the Democrats hadn't tried to include illegal immigrants it would have sailed through

And why shouldn't illegal immigrants be included?


...............The More You Know!

Stating a hypothetical as fact is not a "the more you know" situation.
Also it's safe to end an ellipse with three punctuation marks.


Read the article, and then try correcting something important.
 
2013-02-01 11:18:53 PM  
illegal immigrants and native americans were in the previously enacted Act

/carry on
 
2013-02-01 11:20:52 PM  

machoprogrammer: So I have not been paying attention to this act (seriously). Is it truly needed or is it one of those acts that is named something no one can oppose but actually throws a bunch of spending to some congressperson's pet project?



Just a quick estimate, but probably 15-20% of the posts in this 600+ post thread would farking answer your question
 
2013-02-01 11:23:12 PM  

EnderX: Hickory-smoked: EnderX: FlashHarry: farking republicans. is there ANY issue on which they are on the right side?

Well maybe if the Democrats hadn't tried to include illegal immigrants it would have sailed through

And why shouldn't illegal immigrants be included?


...............The More You Know!

Stating a hypothetical as fact is not a "the more you know" situation.
Also it's safe to end an ellipse with three punctuation marks.

Read the article, and then try correcting something important.


They may be illegal aliens, but they're still human beings. America IS where all men are created equal, correct?
 
2013-02-01 11:25:05 PM  

Jackson Herring: machoprogrammer: So I have not been paying attention to this act (seriously). Is it truly needed or is it one of those acts that is named something no one can oppose but actually throws a bunch of spending to some congressperson's pet project?


Just a quick estimate, but probably 15-20% of the posts in this 600+ post thread would farking answer your question


If someone enters a thread and says "I don't know anything about this, but is it something that I think is wasteful or evil or pointless?", they're not looking for meaningful conversation.
 
2013-02-01 11:36:29 PM  

rev. dave: Now we need a bill on violence against chickens.  I KNOW they will block that one.


Worry less about the chickens and more about the ducks.
 
2013-02-01 11:44:48 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: EnderX: Hickory-smoked: EnderX: FlashHarry: farking republicans. is there ANY issue on which they are on the right side?

Well maybe if the Democrats hadn't tried to include illegal immigrants it would have sailed through

And why shouldn't illegal immigrants be included?


...............The More You Know!

Stating a hypothetical as fact is not a "the more you know" situation.
Also it's safe to end an ellipse with three punctuation marks.

Read the article, and then try correcting something important.

They may be illegal aliens, but they're still human beings. America IS where all men are created equal, correct?


Yeah, but those illegal aliens weren't created in America.

I did good?
 
2013-02-01 11:51:26 PM  

machoprogrammer: So I have not been paying attention to this act (seriously). Is it truly needed or is it one of those acts that is named something no one can oppose but actually throws a bunch of spending to some congressperson's pet project? You know, like an act called "Protect the Children Act" which someone added a provision which allocates $100 million to build a library in Bumfark Idaho dedicated to Strom Thurmond.



No, this is one of those acts that sounds great in theory, but has a bunch of little problems that should be addressed before it gets made into law. Like anyone charged with domestic violence would be tested for HIV, whether or not they were convicted. And, the act gives tribal authorities jurisdiction over sex crimes involving non-native Americans on tribal lands.

It's a giant bill with a few tiny but very important parts that republicans object to.
 
2013-02-02 12:16:37 AM  

Treygreen13: The problem isn't that Republicans can't articulate their opposition to it. There are several websites reporting the reasons for why Republicans oppose it this time around - some reasons good and some not. The problem is that nobody here seems to be interested in why this bill hasn't been passed this time after being passed 3 times before. Nobody really wants to discuss whether or not the Violence Against Women Act is still the best plan going forward. It's just "Republicans hate women" and "Republicans are evil."


Then link something and stop complaining that we refuse to read what you are too lazy to link to.
 
2013-02-02 12:17:36 AM  

clane: i guess if the name of a Bill sounds good we should just close our eyes and vote yes.


It worked pretty well for the "Patriot Act", so why not?
 
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